Lotsa Questions

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Hey Jeremy, thank you for all of your thoughts so far...I want to try and be of aid in return.

I want to talk about the way I view emotions.  As someone who is subject to some intense forms of them, I've had some time to reflect on them in both memory and meditation.

Emotions are scientifically thought to be an occurrence of the brain sending out neurotransmitters, and hence a phenomenon of the body.  I personally experience them as extensions of the physical brain however.  By that all I mean is the energetic system of the body is the first one to incite the emotional response, specifically at the orange chakra auric body, the emotional auric body.

EDIT: I gave an incomplete explanation... I should add, the green ray is the beginning to this emotional response process, the orange ray is the last one in this process but physically appears to be the first. This is because it gets the first 'physical' response after the red ray, but energetically, the metaphysical processes have already been working to inform the physical from green ray. (I feel the study looking for free will that showed the brain makes a decision 7 seconds before we are consciously aware of it, is actually proof of the energetic system responding first, free will comes not from the brain, the brain just allows it to be manifested through it.)

This response is essentially created in two major ways.

Reaction to Thought or Spoken Work
Reaction to Action

This means you are correct mostly in your view that thoughts are a manner of emotional control, specifically, the ability to abstain from letting emotions carry your thoughts away, and the ability to direct your thoughts as you desire them to be while enthralled in those emotions.

I find viewing emotions in my mind is like watching waves rippling outwards from the human body, and washing over everything around the human body.  Similarly, others emotional waves effect our body just as ours effect theirs.  This is one reason in my mind why others unconsciously recognize when another is emotional in some manner, whether depressed, angry, happy, or something more or less, it shows in a variety of ways, including by the energy we give off, and how others pick up on that energy.

Just like a sound vibration such as the beat of our heart might echo outwardly from our body albeit a heartbeat doesn't get far, not like it's electromagnetic field, but this beat that sends out periodic waves pretty much mimics what an emotional output from the body might appear to the surrounding area.

I'm aware that energetically there are...globules, formations, of constructs of emotional denseness or rigidity or other psychological markers to major blockages.  The book Hands of Light covers some of it decently, but I found it lacked the specificity of various types of blockages and how their appearances and forms could be psychologically linked to their cause.

Regardless, I find that such a thing as emotional maturity exists.  As someone who has been greatly immature emotionally, I think I can soundly speak as a hypocrite that it is pretty vital to take time to truly sit with an emotion, and as Led Zeppelin says, to be a rock, and not to roll.  To sit with it and not get caught up in it's turmoil.  To become a part of the storm rather than a bystander within it.  To be as the eye of the storm of that emotion, and to be still inside of it.

The book Three Pillars of Zen really greatly helped me understand the...Imagery of the mental clarity of the mind.  And look at that, it's no longer free to read in full length online

Basically, the mind is a reflecting pool of water, thoughts and emotions create ripples in our reflecting pool and distort the imagery of the Truth that is reflected off of it.  The most vital part of meditation is the training of the mind to not only remain silent in times that it is required to be so, but it is also very vital to discover how to acquire a clarity from the denseness of thoughts found in emotions, and a clarity within the emotion itself.  A type of clarity that is, to be as still water before the raging storm.  To sit and let the waves pass over and through you, and to not attach to them as they do so, to be transparent, to allow them to be as they are, and to be as you are in return, still and clear, focused like the careful gaze of eye over magnifying glass, to observe without response, to be without reaction, to reflect from the deepest depths and heights of your mind your personal truth.

Emotions are sort of like, energetic weather patterns of the mind.  They very well can be almost forecasted, we all know some days when we are very aware that we'll be emotional on those days and take steps to counteract any severities that might come of this.  One of my days is November 25th, I make it a point to just make that day a very lazy, boring, uninteresting day, to avoid the rampant emotions going on inside of me during that day from breaking out and driving me crazy.  It takes everything I have to sit with those feelings and not lose my mind and clarity to them, and I still fail, very often.

Maybe tomorrow I will be happier, it'll be a Friday, I'll try to be with a friend or two, fill out some applications to follow up on Monday.  Or maybe I'll wake up depressed and be in too much of a swamp of swirling blues to do anything but turn on a video game and wonder if the rest of my life will be of me playing video games all alone.  Who knows where the road leads, we can figure if there's clouds in the distance, we can expect rain down the path.

I however personally found back in 2014 during my 'spiritual awakening' that emotion is more than any of these things.  That they are at the core, a... primary property of energies that build the foundation for society to function upon.  Without them we cannot form complex harmonies and disharmonies among ourselves.  There is no potential for love or hate, for catalyst in the form of emotional responses to ensue, driving karma, driving the human individual, driving for polarization.

Emotions are linked to our personal power, to be lost in our emotions is to be lost in our power.  To have runaway emotions is to have a lack of control over your own personal power (simplified to control of your own thoughts and emotions).  To be overwhelmed in emotion is to as before, lack control of that personal power.  Not control in that it needs to be contained or managed, but controlled in that one need control their self while inundated with thoughts and emotions they may not find desirable in the moment, and still manage to withdraw joy from themselves through this self control.

I find the concept of the negative use of the orange ray can be applied positively quite well, to use emotion as a tool and not just a consequence of the human condition.  As the example goes, to hone hatred like a blade, or in a positive light, to dull the incision of critical judgment to a mere gentle poke, or to cultivate the belly-tickling joys of laughter into an integral part of the self.  We all have our personal laugh that resounds uniquely from ourselves.  Is this not a vibration of the unique tone energetically of the emotions being experienced?

I think Emotions are belonging to the entire complex.  In the energetic system, each chakra contains within it every other chakra, mimicking the formation of our octave of densities.  This allows for spirit in green ray to know emotion, this allows for mind in orange ray to know of clarity, this allows body in yellow ray to know of maturity and responsibility.  For each portion to know itself and experience parts of it's other extended portions.

You might one day experience an emotion you won't have any clue what it is.  How do you depict an unfamiliar emotion?  Seems hard to imagine.
I view a good example as the sudden overwhelming surprise of how clear and pure love can feel as a good example of describing 'bliss', a emotion that when I experienced it I could only describe the sensation as 'positive', in that I did not realize the feeling itself was bliss.

In a similar vein, the first time I ever experienced rage, I thought I was literally losing my mind, my thoughts were racing that fast.  In retrospect I'd describe the emotion as 'negative', in that I could not make sense of its sensations as anything more than unpleasant miseries.

In both experiences, maintaining clarity was almost like the sensation of pulling one's self out of the bubble of an emotion, and existing on it's surface looking in rather than within it looking out, seeing through it from outside of it, rather than from the inside.  To be an observer of the hurricane of rage outside of it's being (as the stillness of this storm's eye was still far too intense for me), to remain clearheaded and unattached to the lulling gentle breeze of caressing energy that was the emotion bliss.

I now understand emotions as emerging from spirit, or the green chakra, informing the yellow chakra through the release of neurotransmitters creating a physical sensation, then the sensation itself manifesting through the orange chakra informed by the green chakra.  I also attribute Orange Ray to Mind, Yellow Ray to Body, and Green Ray to Spirit of the Mind/Body/Spirit Complex, with the Indigo Ray being the Higher Self portion of the experiential existence.

In this sense, the green ray, or astral body is the catalytic inciter of emotional response.  It baths the yellow ray in a physical reflexive response autonomous to the conscious will, and molds the orange ray into formulas and constructions of energies.

The orange ray emotional auric body is essentially the green ray astral auric body, what happens in one effects the other.

Just some different perspectives you can consider.

I'm pretty tired, I'm pulling an all nighter so my thoughts are already a bit hazy so I apologize if this post is unclear in some aspects.

[Cobrien]

The male aspect of the mind is that which reaches while the female is that which waits to be reached.

You have the capability to answer your questions in a satifying way. No one can directly help you. At most one could only offer perspective to consider. In that way you might find the answers yourself. In this way i will respond to you.

First, i would like to say that the consciousness you are, even experienced as seperate, is complete. Everything you ever think feel or experience is this completion. Judgment engenders distortion of this understanding. Therefore it is critical to know and accept the self as you even judge yourself to be seperate.

Everything is one. You are part of this one and are this one in all power and glory. This why Ra says he/they offer the solving of paradoxes. Understanding this is simple and is the core message of the confederation which Ra said in his very first response


"The Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator has only one important statement. That statement, my friends, as you know, is “All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.”"(1.0)









Everything you can conceive of and experience is this, one orginal thought. Ra has also said that it is necessary to realize you do not understan." It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density." (16.39)

[Agua del Cielo]

Beautiful post, apothesis, thank you

@jeremy

I would add something for clarification:

We are used to equate mind ( as it is refered to in spiritual literature) with the intellectual mind we know.
I think there is a significant difference.
When for example inmeditation your thoughts completely stop, you are not dead nor are you asleep. You are being in your conscious mind. There is a vast intelligence that before was blocked out by thought, by intellectual thought.
So, i would say, that thought is the opposite of being present.

But maybe you meant exactly this.

What i was trying to say is:
If thoughts are miles away from what we are, emotions still would be inches away.
They are much closer to our inner core, but not yet there.

One can also be lost in emotions and become completely unconscious.
In fact, that is exactly what our controlling intellect is afraid of.
It would be crucial to be present with the emotion, to consciously allow if, accept it completely, let it fill your entire being while all the time holding up that flame of presence and consciousness inside.

I apologize, if this was already obvious!

If you dont know him, eckhart tolle is the guy to go for being present and discovering ego facets.
He had a great impact on me.
You might find his view of the "pain-body" very insightful.

Especially his exercices in "doorways into the Now" were what got me started.

[Agua del Cielo]

Edit
#disclaimer#
I have to point out, that I have an endorsement deal with emotions! I'm advertisingthem heavily and get some pleasant ones in return.
I felt obliged to make this potential conflict of interests transparent!

[Minyatur]

To go back a bit on my previous post, I'll add more to my notion of balance over polarity.

First of all, it is in no way a manner to say that unbalanced polarity is unwell. Unbalanced polarity offers a type of unique experience for the soul. Consider that balanced passion is much more monotone and as such unbalanced passion offers for the spirit to know various portions of the spectrum of emotion in greater and much more vivid ways. Experience is forever about internalizing portion of the All within yourself to gain an understanding of these portions through distillment, every possible emotion reflects a facet of Love and can be known in potentially infinite ways and intensity.

So what's the point of balance over polarity?
Well it's just that if your goal is to reach balance (which is certainly not every soul's goal as we sprang forth from balance into imbalance to join back into balance), it is much much much easier to balance your distortions at a lower intensity than at a high intensity. At a lower intensity you can get a clearer view of what you feel and it's context which allows to more easily seek the hidden more positive root of these emotions where acceptance is found, whereas at a extremely high intensity you can tend to get lost in the surface emotion.


Here's some quotes from the Ra material on the subject :

43.8 Questioner: I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I sometimes am at a loss, before investigation into an area, to know whether it is going to lead to a better understanding. This just seemed to be related somehow to the energy centers that we were speaking of.

I am going to make a statement and have you comment on it for its correctness. The statement is: When the Creator’s light is split or divided into colors and energy centers for experience, then in order to reunite with the Creator the energy centers must be balanced exactly the same as the split light was as it originated from the Creator. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. To give this query a simple answer would be nearly impossible.

We shall simplify by concentrating upon what we consider to be the central idea towards which you are striving. We have, many times now, spoken about the relative importance of balancing as opposed to the relative unimportance of maximal activation of each energy center. The reason is as you have correctly surmised. Thusly the entity is concerned, if it be upon the path of positive harvestability, with the regularizing of the various energies of experience. Thus the most fragile entity may be more balanced than one with extreme energy and activity in service to others due to the fastidiousness with which the will is focused upon the use of experience in knowing the self. The densities beyond your own give the minimally balanced individual much time/space and space/time with which to continue to refine these inner balances.

42.5 Questioner: In the illusion that we now experience it is difficult to maintain this response especially if the entity’s attack results in physical pain, but I assume that this response should be maintained even through physical loss of life or extreme pain. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct and further is of a major or principal importance in understanding, shall we say, the principle of balance. Balance is not indifference but rather the observer not blinded by any feelings of separation but rather fully imbued with love.

There is a difference between a blocked energy center and a non-activated energy center, they are not the same notion. A blocked energy center is open in receiving energies which end up blocked in existing nodes, whereas a non-activated energy center is not open in receiving the energies and it's nodes (if any) are not energized or are at a lesser intensity. So what I was saying is not about shutting down certain rays but instead to simply vibrate at a lesser intensity altogether where your energy centers are still aligned and balanced in regard to one another. You don't seek to stop feeling things but simply seek to experience the same things in a less vivid manner.

I think a less activated energy field that has a great degree of balance might very well be able to do more than an extremely open energy field which is not aligned with itself and contain many blockages. But then again, a degree of activation is required to reach a true state of balance because to untangle the nodes require to experience them first.

Once again, it's all about what you seek. If what you seek is to balance what you feel into finding a strong direction for your emotions, this is much more easily done at a lesser vibration than at a too high vibration. The more you reach balance, the more you will naturally tend toward a greater activation of your energy centers.

Another way to put it, an unbalanced field is very colorful whereas a balanced field is much alike the color white which contains the other colors bound in unity in the same fashion that the Creator is all events also bound in unity. Imbalances are paradoxes to resolve and unity is the transcendant omnipresent view that is without paradox. It's all a journey away and back to the view of unity, which yields a more complex understanding and profound love of this unity.

---

Still know that your greater openness simply implies that you are processing more energy at each moment, which I would say might've been your goal in incarnating.

edit : I also find this quote to be relevant to the subject

74.11 Questioner: Now, what I am trying to get at is how these disciplines affect the energy centers and the power, shall I say, of the white magician. Could you, will you tell me how that works?

Ra: I am Ra. The heart of the discipline of the personality is threefold. One, know yourself. Two, accept yourself. Three, become the Creator.

The third step is that step which, when accomplished, renders one the most humble servant of all, transparent in personality and completely able to know and accept other-selves. In relation to the pursuit of the magical working the continuing discipline of the personality involves the adept in knowing itself, accepting itself, and thus clearing the path towards the great indigo gateway to the Creator. To become the Creator is to become all that there is. There is then no personality in the sense with which the adept begins its learn/teaching. As the consciousness of the indigo ray becomes more crystalline, more work may be done; more may be expressed from intelligent infinity.

[Minyatur]

Also, if I am to you give a single tip, it'd be this.

Stop reinforcing your biases. They are in no way absolute and your body itself is a creature of your mind.  So stop perceiving yourself as without potential because you are a potential stronger than any of your bounds. Who knows how what you refer to as brain problems emerged, maybe they were born out of beliefs and faith and were implemented in your vulnerable child self to be reinforced over time by both yourself and others on different occasions. Reality is literally of a magical nature, our entire systems of biases/laws are simply a form of consensus reality. If everyone sincerely believed that reality is much more malleable than it is currently perrceived as, then the each individual mind would have greater effect on this shared reality.

Stop saying I'm like this, I'm too this, I lack this, I'm without this. You are boundless potential constrained within the experience of a malleable thought form and your beliefs shape your reality. It's something literally everyone does, and often I think there's a form of comfort in that. To me one's body is one's greatest domain of free will that unless you go see doctors who imprint a quantum observation/expectation of your inner states, it's very much only up to you and if for example you keep getting sick, it would show you are reinforcing a disenpowered view of yourself more than it being because of any external reason. Some people can be healthy in conditions that literally kill others. And even then, so long you don't go back again and again to doctors for them to crystallize these expectations, the power goes back to you whenever you want. People's opinion of you have an effect also, but only so long they resonate with an opinion you have of yourself.

Now understand that where you are at is a cumulation of beliefs and biases over time, so the present moment is always the time to undo past beliefs, past limitations and open yourself to the view that you are boundless potential. I personally do this work and what it leads me toward is conscious acknowledgement that every single of my present/past biases were things I unconsciously desired. And the pattern do come back, but each time is an opportunity to correct your train of thought into something constructive rather than limiting. In the end, it's a matter of why we desire to limit ourselves.

You are what is without limits and the illusion of limits is simply a natural seeking of what is without limits.

My gift to you is my faith that you are stronger than your bounds. Make this faith your own and you will master your destiny.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

The male aspect of the mind is that which reaches while the female is that which waits to be reached.

You have the capability to answer your questions in a satifying way. No one can directly help you. At most one could only offer perspective to consider. In that way you might find the answers yourself. In this way i will respond to you.

First, i would like to say that the consciousness you are, even experienced as seperate, is complete. Everything you ever think feel or experience is this completion. Judgment engenders distortion of this understanding. Therefore it is critical to know and accept the self as you even judge yourself to be seperate.

Everything is one. You are part of this one and are this one in all power and glory. This why Ra says he/they offer the solving of paradoxes. Understanding this is simple and is the core message of the confederation which Ra said in his very first response


"The Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator has only one important statement. That statement, my friends, as you know, is “All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.”"(1.0)


Everything you can conceive of and experience is this, one orginal thought. Ra has also said that it is necessary to realize you do not understan." It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density." (16.39)

14.20 Questioner: And you ready yourselves for harvest through [the] best service you can provide. Is this correct?
Ra: This is correct. We offer the Law of One, the solving of paradoxes, the balancing of love/light and light/love.

16.39 Questioner: I am assuming it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from third to fourth density. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

Thank you for your words, I have provided myself the full quotes you were speaking of.  

While I believe these things to be true, I, ironically, do not know them to be true beyond the year of my life when I was 22 in 2014 and had a spiritual awakening as a sort of response to a life crisis at the time, were that spiritual awakening never to have happened, I'd be dead via suicide.

I find that it is a great irony that I, seeing myself as a paradox, would come upon the one things that is said to be the solver of paradoxes, and in taking it into my self, found both simplifications in some areas, and in others a great extension of their complexity.

I say, who knows where the road leads, because it's true.  Even God can't precisely predict a future that hasn't happened for it yet.  How does a consciousness beyond time working within time experience instantaneous changes to itself as it interacts?  The higher self, the oversoul of the high self.

I believe this life has some kind of important purpose.  I doubt my ability to fulfill this purpose, because I can't even seem to fulfill myself.

Yet, I continue on, because of the Law of One and what few friends I have.

You can feel you have so little, and still have so much.

Thank you for your words.

I have to point out, that I have an endorsement deal with emotions

I...Doesn't everyone have this? lol

Min, I wish to share to you some mostly disjointed lyrics of a song called Thoughtless

"Thumbing through the pages of my fantasies, pushing all the mercy down, down, down. [...] All of my hate cannot be bound, I will not be drowned by your thoughtless scheming"

For me I sometimes feel the thoughtless mind is the most dangerous one in regards to scheming.  I find that where others tell me to sit with my anger, they are asking me to sit in the fire and self immolate myself.  I have tried, but I'm unable to do so, mostly because I cannot handle it.

I equate this to being unable to sit in the eye of the storm due to its severe intensity around the core, I can't penetrate it into the stillness at the center.

I find this a failure on my part, but forgive myself as I view that my anger is a...Lifelongterm obstacle to be distilled.  I might even make the assumption that failing to come to peace with this anger will alone signify a failure to distill a primal experience necessary for harvest.

I will try to stop reinforcing my perceptions of myself I feel I need to bring to the surface to work on.  I just find surfacing the emotion is easier when I apply them to my identity.  Just remember, here on Earth we are mostly activated as entities of Earth, not so much Entities of Infinity.  In regards in 5.2 when Don asks Ra for aid in becoming healers, they mention in their response

It is not for a being of polarity in the physical consciousness to pick and choose among attributes

, I see this as applying to healing, and in that light it can be applied to the internal healing process.  I am not picking to be the things I call myself, I see they simply are.

When I call myself a failure, or a monster, it is because I have observed these things to be true.  I am also a successful person and a lover in other areas, but these feelings I do not think need be worked upon like those of 'failure' and 'monster', so I do not attempt to surface them upon my merely intellectual consciousness, but to hold them there to get processed down into the subconscious in a different manner, to approach them subconsciously at a consciously differently aimed perspective.

For instance, depression and suicide are major emotions I have felt my entire life, I felt these before I even knew that the other thing I felt was anger.  Yet these three things, sadness, madness, and hopelessness, have since then been cultivated into these extreme feelings of depression, hatred, and suicidal tendencies.

I don't touch these right now, as in the past doing so has caused consequences such as the intensification of hatred or suicidal tendencies or depression.  Sitting with them doesn't help, they are ingrained habits of my brain's circuitry, it's almost like there's also redundancies in place for them, as when I go through a meditation with one and sit clearly and lovingly with it, the instant I return into the intellectual mind and are subject once more to my own thoughts, they are immediately surfacing as reinforcements by my thoughts of the emotions I've just worked on.

My only hope I'm seeing is to return to a state of near constant conscientiousness, something I only ever managed back in the middle of my spiritual awakening.  Attempts afterwards are like trying to go on a jogging regiment.  It's haaard hahaha, but it's needed.

I plan on, if I don't keep on falling to depression and finding it pointless, to not only begin a literal regiment of practices for both mind and body, but to begin once again 'living' the Law of One, as it was in doing that that all of my issues were exacerbated, yet at the same time, many others were shed off, INCLUDING my anger.

2014, a year without my anger plaguing me.  It was blissful, my sadness was shallow compared to my love.

So, I...I almost said know...I am aware that my anger/madness, and it's extremities of hatred, malice, frustration, and ignorance, can be shed away.  That my sadness and it's extremities of depression, hopelessness, pointlessness, and suicidal tendencies can be lessened down to a puddle rather than the ocean it is.

Yet, in the interim, as I became more loving it seemed like things like laziness also shed away, I cannot in that period recall any real emotions of negativity except after the moment I tried to reconnect as friends with me ex, and saw she hadn't changed a bit.  Now, a few days ago, I documented this in my journal thread, that now I am the one who has no changed where she is.

It just feels like, there's...A clear picture for my life, right in front of my eyes, and it's just hidden in plain sight, not even see-through or transparent but just so perfectly blended it's indistinguishable from being 'separate'.  I need to literally look into reality itself to see this picture, and only once did I have the eyes for this before they closed.

I go again and again and again to 2014, to that year.  To remember what I am, what I can become, what I once was.

I am not choosing to be any of these things, I merely am them.  It ultimately becomes how I'm willing to work with myself.  Will I cultivate my suffering or my love despite both always existing with one another?  It's obvious the suffering is a gravity well, to cultivate it is to become pulled away from the ability to cultivate love, but it cannot take me away from what is a part of me even if it does block such from myself.

As The Glitch Mob says.  The closest space between two points is alive.

Just need to cultivate that life, rather than shelter it away and suppress it.

Really, these analogies all ultimately conclude to the fact I am lazy and not cultivating myself, whether out of pure laziness or fear or disbelief, it is a fact.  I am scared of myself.  I believe I should suffer in some ways.  I think I should be alone in others, because I am a scary person.  People here have seen that, I've seen it.

If a monster who wants to be good can't be good, the least it could do to incite good is to keep itself from harming others.

I'm trying not to harm myself, and it's never working.  Keep myself from others it hurts me.  Interact with others, still gets me hurt, but worse also hurts others.  Do nothing and I still get hurt.  It made me believe I was in hell.  I can't do anything right!  I'm always alone!  I hurt people when I'm not!  I hurt them when I am, somehow!

Yet, I am not in hell, but heaven and purgatory.  I know I do things right all the time.  I'm not always alone, I don't always hurt people when I'm with them, I don't always leave people with my suffering.

But I also don't even know myself, because for all I know, I'm a negative polarity purposefully doing these things, purposefully hurting myself, to hone something in a later life for all I know.

I am truly uncertain but considering the energies in my life, I'm getting feelings as to what I am supposed to do, as to what I need to work on...

But it doesn't change the fact my future projections after my mother dies all puts me on the street.  There's no one out here who's going to give me a home.  I can't manage two jobs, I can barely hold onto one job.  I have no family who gives a s*** about me out here, and I'm not moving to New Jersey when my life and my friends and everything I know is out here.

Your help is useful still though, and I'll consider many of the things you've said despite what I've just replied.

Just see that I might be a walking shield, so everything said to me I sometimes accidentally deflect or block.  The downsides to being a Cancer, my internal shell is always up unless I take it down, and I do not do that anymore.  Just gotta make out the muffled sounds and knocks

[Jade]

I believe I should suffer in some ways.

I'm just pulling this out. Do you really believe this? Because if you believe this for yourself, you are reinforcing this belief for all of us, because we are all one.

You don't deserve punishment any more than anyone else.

[Agua del Cielo]

I would also like to jump in here

Dear CA ,
I havent been on the board when all those things happened, but i've read many of your recent posts.
I think the honesty that you display, the self-reflection and also the humbleness in your wish to apologize are very inspiring.
But feeling guilt and feeling you deserve punishment makes me speak out.

Guilt an ego trap. Period.
The ego makes you feel guilty, them it will make you be punished for your guilt, then at some point you have enough. You dissociate from the feeling of guilt, you start attacking again, because you project your guilt unto others, which then would deserve punishment.
This is vicious circle, the different stages of it are all part of the same problem, they just look different.

As long as you believe in guilt and punishment, you not only believe you are rightfully being attacked, at some point you will transfer this to others as well, probably unconsciously.

With that mechanism, the ego keeps you from moving on.

Moving on would mean:
There is no guilt, so there is no punishment.
You made mistakes.
You have been unconscious.
You did this, because there was at that stage of evolution no other choice.
Now you realize this.
You could take full responibility for what you did, you can confess to yourself that you will make better choices when a situation similar arises, you can apologize and maybe do something to repair the damage.
This is all you can do and all it takes.

You can confess to innocence, to view innocence in all humans.
We all make mistakes, we are all unconscious more often than not.
Some make terrible mistakes.
But deep down, we are all completely innocent.

When you reach this place of innocence in you, you can see that we are all the same.
So, there is only two possibilities. Either everyone is innocent or everyone is guilty.
Theres nothing inbetween.
You dont make the decision only for yourself, it determines how you view the rest of humanity.

I know self-forgiveness is very very hard. But if you cant forgive yourself for your owns sake, you could do it for the sake of other-selves.
As long as you cant forgive yourself, you will ultimately not forgive others, and you will at some point again attack those around you, simply because you believe in guilt and punishment.

I can clearly perceive the unconsciousness you were in. And i can completely understand it, i understand what emotions were your inner drive. And you just couldnt help it.
I view you with love and compassion as you struggled on your path just as we all do.
And i hope, for the innocent loving being that you truly are, that you let go of guilt and let your light shine!

All the love in the universe, dear brother

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

I believe I should suffer in some ways.

I'm just pulling this out. Do you really believe this? Because if you believe this for yourself, you are reinforcing this belief for all of us, because we are all one.

You don't deserve punishment any more than anyone else.

That's a pretty nice question...  I'd say yes, though not all in the ways others might deserve.  In a sense, it doesn't matter that I desire this as I already see it happening all around me, and am absolutely...  Can't even find the word to describe the sharp sensations of things resembling disgust, horror, despair.  It makes me realize that in a sense I want myself to suffer for my own self hatred because I feel I have squandered my life and ruined myself in some kind of way, if not during this life then in some prior one, but that the response I have for these feelings is self hatred and the desire to suffer, I can't say is because I want everyone else to suffer.

Some days I want the monsters of the world to get what they deserve by their victims standards.  Other days I just want everything to calm down and stop being so damn hard for everyone.  Some days I remember I used to be somebody, and it makes me want to get what I deserve for taking the intelligence I have and practically burying it in a 12 foot pit I dug for myself.

But mostly, as I said, that desire of mine is...Pointless.  Reality already incorporates it in both karma and plain natural progression of spiritual lessons learned.

If I didn't want to suffer, I wouldn't be suffering, it's somewhat painfully simple like that.

Just like how when I want to be happy, the only way for that to be, is to just be happy.  No amount of want will make it happen, you need to become it to be it.

Still, the whole human experiences is painted with triggers and hooks and claws.  Just this morning I debated if I should stop being friends with two of my friends because they never want to do what I want lately and never invite me to hang out with them anymore.  That'd leave me down to 3 friends left, all of which I never really see, 4 if I include the one person who emails me now and then.  But I don't know.  I don't like being completely alone, despite feeling like it the majority of my time awake.

So I obviously have to tend to my outer life at least somewhat, even if I keep finding myself feeling hopeless as the house falls apart, the property falls apart, the car falls apart one piece at a time, all the money I ever make is lost to life, nothing to save for myself, a game here or there and that's ll my life will be?  Video games, alone?  And the bills rise and the paychecks don't, what happens in the future, I don't know, but the inevitabilities are predictable.  Unless I find some kind of income greater than...Around 15 dollars an hour with at least full time, I'm not going to have a place to stay one day, who knows when, but if it's soon...  I don't have friends who are willing to be roommates, most strangers I wouldn't be able to live with either.  So the prospects are mostly not fun to entertain.

So I try not to anymore.

That I feel others deserve punishment might belie that I feel I deserve punishment.

I view my failures pretty severely.  I wanted everything I ruined for myself, in the process I ruined other's lives, and have nothing to show for it.  No education.  No income.  No family.  No home to call my own.  Pretty much what I can keep friends that lately I feel myself growing distant towards.  I'm a father who doesn't even know his son, I'm not a dad despite wanting to be.  I can't even keep my self composed mentally half the time anymore.  I never had that problem until I was 23.  I got problems dude.  Problems I view as severe in that they get severely in the way of my desires.

If the catalytic way of causing responses to this is through the processes of suffering, if suffering is what it's going to take to fix whatever I got going wrong in my mind, then so be it.  I don't want it but if it's the only way then I should just get it over with.  If that is what it takes then yes, I think I should suffer.  May as well go give hell a stroll if it means I'll get the hell out of it faster.

...I mean that literally.  If my presence is what it takes to keep this place from falling into total utter chaos, even if I'm suffering from it perhaps it's best I suffer for the many rather than the many suffer for the few.  I mean, I put myself here, obviously I wanted to be here one way or another on some level that transcends concerns such as hatred, malice, despair, depression, torment, suffering, for something more worthwhile.

Still.  Who knows where the road leads, maybe I'll wind up being the one who suffered the least of all compared to everyone around me.  Maybe I'm just a dramatic princess who's too much of a sensitive spineless idiot to admit my life is pretty damn okay for some of the one's out there I myself have come across.

Which is an entire other area of things I'll discuss one day in my journal regards the self sensations of being weak and fragile, as I have enough on my mind-plate right now with just despair, hatred, and depression.  Worthiness was somewhat surprisingly easy to come to terms with, now I find it's loosened the knots on those other three things, so I'm finding it easier to work with them now, especially with self hatred.  I'm beginning to finally recognize when those energies come across my mind and thoughts, rather than being seemingly so used to them I don't notice when they come round.  So I can finally begin catching myself, and thinking about all that everyone here has said to me, and manage to run with feeling worthy of not hating myself.  Even if the reinforcements begin to pop out of the wood work, all of these deep subconscious feelings and memories resurfacing to be worked with, I am at least making some kind of progress for it to be happening.

For instance, I haven't for the longest time concerned myself with the memory of my mother one night dragging me by the hair down a hallway, a 180 pound 5'11" guy.  Turns out that memory fuels a large amount of my hatred even despite it being directed towards my self by another series of memories and experiences...  Yet if I just come to terms with this memory, it stops fueling the entire machine of self hatred that I've got going on.

I'm trying, okay...I'm trying to distill these things, I need to now because you never know when one day I won't be able to, when one day I might be thrust into isolation and homelessness, and lack an outlet to plug a computer into, or lack a bed to rest in, or lack all the things I take for essential and granted and necessary to not lose my mind completely.

So, I'm trying.  It's going somewhere, I just...don't want to move too fast like I did last time...  Not that again, I can't do that again... The contrast was too sharp...

Muad-dib...I can't call those times periods of unconsciousness. I was clearly very conscious of my actions, enough so to so furiously reflect upon them that it's painful to me in very deep twisting ways.

I already have an idea of what you speak of, and I think it's important to mention I am somewhat capable of self-forgiveness, I forgive myself for the many things others have condemned me for. I just...Have standards, that I failed of myself and feel I need to sit with that, and not just forgive and forget. I feel like I need to learn from these failed standards of mine. Make these things have real resounding meanings and not just, something bad that happened and I got something positive out of it. Doing that was terrifyingly too easy for me.

Back in 2014 when I began following some of the ideas and performing them in Carla's book Living the Law of One 101: The Choice, I began to polarize, and I began a very vivid awakening process. Across 2014 over a period of months I managed to completely transform my personality, my mind, even my body was transforming, I lost 50 pounds and felt I was slimming up into a very attractive build. I woke up to thoughts of the Law of One floating around in my head, I went to sleep in loving peace with the thoughts of love. I went across the day like a friggin sun in blackness, that was how it literally felt to me. Everyone was in pain, EVERYONE WAS SUFFERING, I couldn't do ANYTHING. Sure, I had moments of greatly helping, I drove a woman who somehow managed to get so lost she ended up in eastern Chandler where I worked at the time and was trying to get to western Phoenix. She showed up at 2am. I let her sleep in my car than drove her home when I got off work at 6am after getting her a drink and some food. Had no idea who she was, drove over 20 miles there and back for this random woman, all because I kept seeing myself in her, kept thinking 'This could be me, I'd want me to help me.' as just one glaring example of how much different I was back then.

In essence, I rapidly raised kundalini into the indigo chakra, and the result was my life began to receive more and more catalyst. So, when I no longer could maintain this state of elevated consciousness, and it dropped, I was once again just this human, suddenly looking at a place I could only fathom to be literally Hell on Earth because of how deeply I had penetrated those perspectives of reality, if not that I was literally IN HELL, that there was no Earth, that I was just some consciousness in a dream state of perpetual nightmares paradoxically-blissfully ignorant, in some kind of egg shell of a container floating in eternal stasis forever doomed to repeat experiences of misery with moments of great love only to provide further suffering in the deep contrast between the two sensations.

It took literally having to tell myself even through the disbelief that those were all delusions before I finally recognized them to be. I don't think I can deal with that kind of...Catalyst again. So, I'm going to take things slow now. If it makes me lukewarm in polarity then oh well for me, ain't got anything better to do but live and die apparently. And in taking things slowly, I intend to never give myself more than I can handle ever again.

...There is one thing about your post that does strike me as a fresh and helpful view. I never realized I did disassociate from my empathy for others as I was filled with grief for everything...Not until I had said far too many things and done far too much, not until far too late did I realize this.

Your reminder, I hope will serve me to not fall into the destructive patterns I did before while working with energies I perceived to be monstrous, including those both outside and inside of myself.

Thank you, both of you, for your replies, they help immensely.

[Agua del Cielo]

Dear C A,
After I read your post i had an inner dialogue, i couldnt resist posting it.
I hope you dont find it un-compassionate, since i clearly can see myself in you!

"Oh, i heard you re done with anger, hate and rage directing to people. Is that true? Why is it?"
"Oh, yes! I found it is unloving and causes pain, so i decided to never do it again!"
"Oh, thats a good choice! But i can see you're now directin that same rage against yourself"
" well, maybe, but thats different!"
"What is the difference?"
"i am an idiot, i should have known better. I deserve it!"
"Oh, so you're done with hurting people with your rage unless they are idiots that deserve it?"
"Well, mmhhh, aahh, yes. Because i am a stupid idiot who should have known better and i deserve it!"
"So, to be honest, you're still in the exact game?"
"Ah, well, hmm, yes. But it looks much better now !"
"So, although you know better and pretend to step out of the game, you feel driven for some reason to carry it on? Because you considerit justified?
Isnt that exactly what you did back then? Can you see you still havent enough consciousness in it to stop it?
Can you imagine you had less consciousness back then, and understand you had no other choice? Just like now you dont seem to have no other choice than attacking yourself?"

I can deeply relate to you. There is a part in me that is exactly the same.
You can help me in healing this when you accept healing and forgiveness.
As can I.
I will do my best, dear brother!

[flofrog]

I so agree with Muad-dib about guilt and the ego... thank you Muad-dib. Once I met a zen monk who said to me winking 'use fully the guilt for two split second and then let it go' that was so nice I thought.

C A,
I so feel for you my friend, I so send you lots and lots of anything good.. You will get through this. Much much love and much... admiration !

[Minyatur]

Min, I wish to share to you some mostly disjointed lyrics of a song called Thoughtless

"Thumbing through the pages of my fantasies, pushing all the mercy down, down, down. [...] All of my hate cannot be bound, I will not be drowned by your thoughtless scheming"

For me I sometimes feel the thoughtless mind is the most dangerous one in regards to scheming.  I find that where others tell me to sit with my anger, they are asking me to sit in the fire and self immolate myself.  I have tried, but I'm unable to do so, mostly because I cannot handle it.

I equate this to being unable to sit in the eye of the storm due to its severe intensity around the core, I can't penetrate it into the stillness at the center.

That's a bit why I suggest calming meditations with the intent to lower the intensity of your vibration so you don't self immolate yourself in this work.

I find this a failure on my part, but forgive myself as I view that my anger is a...Lifelongterm obstacle to be distilled.  I might even make the assumption that failing to come to peace with this anger will alone signify a failure to distill a primal experience necessary for harvest.

And how is anger distilled? To me this is done through finding the root of anger which is not anger.

I will try to stop reinforcing my perceptions of myself I feel I need to bring to the surface to work on.  I just find surfacing the emotion is easier when I apply them to my identity.  Just remember, here on Earth we are mostly activated as entities of Earth, not so much Entities of Infinity.  In regards in 5.2 when Don asks Ra for aid in becoming healers, they mention in their response

It is not for a being of polarity in the physical consciousness to pick and choose among attributes

, I see this as applying to healing, and in that light it can be applied to the internal healing process.  I am not picking to be the things I call myself, I see they simply are.

This is essentially why I said the present moment is always the moment to empower yourself above your biases. You can't pick what biases you have cumulated so far, but you can make choices on how the direction you wish to pursue from those biases.

Contemplate this quote in relation to the one you shared :

75.35 Questioner: May anyone in third density accomplish some degree of healing if they have the proper will, desire, and polarity, or is there a minimal balance of the energy centers of the healer that is also necessary?
Ra: I am Ra. Any entity may at any time instantaneously clear and balance its energy centers. Thus in many cases those normally quite blocked, weakened, and distorted may, through love and strength of will, become healers momentarily. To be a healer by nature one must indeed train its self in the disciplines of the personality.

The disciplines of the personality are essentially to transcend these attributes/limitations which you did not choose in your conscious awareness. You can consider them as the matrix of mind, body and spirit.

When I call myself a failure, or a monster, it is because I have observed these things to be true.  I am also a successful person and a lover in other areas, but these feelings I do not think need be worked upon like those of 'failure' and 'monster', so I do not attempt to surface them upon my merely intellectual consciousness, but to hold them there to get processed down into the subconscious in a different manner, to approach them subconsciously at a consciously differently aimed perspective.

Here I'd say that you need to understand that your entire concept of perceiving yourself as a failure or a monster are a confused and hurt analysis of yourself.

For instance, depression and suicide are major emotions I have felt my entire life, I felt these before I even knew that the other thing I felt was anger.  Yet these three things, sadness, madness, and hopelessness, have since then been cultivated into these extreme feelings of depression, hatred, and suicidal tendencies.

Do you see how this is the salvation of the perception of a monster? You entire ability to have felt depression and desire of suicide are the root of goodness, there is no good without a core of vulnerability and a potential for it to become twisted.

You are a sensible soul and there is so much great beauty in that. Healing is salvation.

I don't touch these right now, as in the past doing so has caused consequences such as the intensification of hatred or suicidal tendencies or depression.  Sitting with them doesn't help, they are ingrained habits of my brain's circuitry, it's almost like there's also redundancies in place for them, as when I go through a meditation with one and sit clearly and lovingly with it, the instant I return into the intellectual mind and are subject once more to my own thoughts, they are immediately surfacing as reinforcements by my thoughts of the emotions I've just worked on.

My only hope I'm seeing is to return to a state of near constant conscientiousness, something I only ever managed back in the middle of my spiritual awakening.  Attempts afterwards are like trying to go on a jogging regiment.  It's haaard hahaha, but it's needed.

I plan on, if I don't keep on falling to depression and finding it pointless, to not only begin a literal regiment of practices for both mind and body, but to begin once again 'living' the Law of One, as it was in doing that that all of my issues were exacerbated, yet at the same time, many others were shed off, INCLUDING my anger.

My ex was depressive since childhood and she really hated me giving her tips, she thought I made it seem easy while she thought I was someone who never had such struggles in my life. I never meant to say it's an easy work but that it's a work of finding direction and holding unto this direction. If for every step backward you can make 2 steps forward, you will gain momentum in the right direction. Both you and her are people who cumulated a shitload of steps backward in your psyche and this does make it hard, this does make it a heavy work and if you are anything like her, your biggest stumbling block would be a lack of faith that you can resolve within yourself what there is to resolve.

Btw, I saw within her the most beautiful radiance of hate or anger I've seen in someone. Gosh it seemed so pure she appeared to me as a literal demon at times when I'd look into her eyes. Still, who knows but I would think my soul contains even greater anger and this is why I was not phased by hers, it's simply that mine own has already been distilled and resolved and now became an integrated portion/archetype of myself that is there to be drawn upon if seen as useful. Whereas you and her are more of slaves to this emotion you are distilling. I'm just saying this to say that while I might appear to not struggle with anger, it does not mean I don't contain an understanding of anger. I wrote this poem on hatred which contains my deep feelings found in contemplation relating to this emotion if you are interested : http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...#pid190468

I think the great work is to find beauty where it is hard to perceive it. It's always there to be found which is why the first two steps of the discipline of the personality (quote I shared on previous post) are to know yourself to then accept yourself. A lack of acceptance reflects a lack of understanding and nothing more.

2014, a year without my anger plaguing me.  It was blissful, my sadness was shallow compared to my love.

So, I...I almost said know...I am aware that my anger/madness, and it's extremities of hatred, malice, frustration, and ignorance, can be shed away.  That my sadness and it's extremities of depression, hopelessness, pointlessness, and suicidal tendencies can be lessened down to a puddle rather than the ocean it is.

Yet, in the interim, as I became more loving it seemed like things like laziness also shed away, I cannot in that period recall any real emotions of negativity except after the moment I tried to reconnect as friends with me ex, and saw she hadn't changed a bit.  Now, a few days ago, I documented this in my journal thread, that now I am the one who has no changed where she is.

It just feels like, there's...A clear picture for my life, right in front of my eyes, and it's just hidden in plain sight, not even see-through or transparent but just so perfectly blended it's indistinguishable from being 'separate'.  I need to literally look into reality itself to see this picture, and only once did I have the eyes for this before they closed.

I go again and again and again to 2014, to that year.  To remember what I am, what I can become, what I once was.

This is a good example of what I think it'd be like for you to find your Higher Self within yourself. You'd see and know all of this resolves itself in acceptance, love and light. You'd perceive why your faith should be unshakable.

I am not choosing to be any of these things, I merely am them.  It ultimately becomes how I'm willing to work with myself.  Will I cultivate my suffering or my love despite both always existing with one another?  It's obvious the suffering is a gravity well, to cultivate it is to become pulled away from the ability to cultivate love, but it cannot take me away from what is a part of me even if it does block such from myself.

As The Glitch Mob says.  The closest space between two points is alive.

Just need to cultivate that life, rather than shelter it away and suppress it.

Really, these analogies all ultimately conclude to the fact I am lazy and not cultivating myself, whether out of pure laziness or fear or disbelief, it is a fact.  I am scared of myself.  I believe I should suffer in some ways.  I think I should be alone in others, because I am a scary person.  People here have seen that, I've seen it.

If a monster who wants to be good can't be good, the least it could do to incite good is to keep itself from harming others.

I'm trying not to harm myself, and it's never working.  Keep myself from others it hurts me.  Interact with others, still gets me hurt, but worse also hurts others.  Do nothing and I still get hurt.  It made me believe I was in hell.  I can't do anything right!  I'm always alone!  I hurt people when I'm not!  I hurt them when I am, somehow!

Yet, I am not in hell, but heaven and purgatory.  I know I do things right all the time.  I'm not always alone, I don't always hurt people when I'm with them, I don't always leave people with my suffering.

But I also don't even know myself, because for all I know, I'm a negative polarity purposefully doing these things, purposefully hurting myself, to hone something in a later life for all I know.

I am truly uncertain but considering the energies in my life, I'm getting feelings as to what I am supposed to do, as to what I need to work on...

But it doesn't change the fact my future projections after my mother dies all puts me on the street.  There's no one out here who's going to give me a home.  I can't manage two jobs, I can barely hold onto one job.  I have no family who gives a s*** about me out here, and I'm not moving to New Jersey when my life and my friends and everything I know is out here.

It ain't easy, but one day I know you willl look upon all the ways you will have felt and find yourself insanely beautiful to have felt all these things. You might not perceive how much more complete these things make you, but they do.

Your help is useful still though, and I'll consider many of the things you've said despite what I've just replied.

Just see that I might be a walking shield, so everything said to me I sometimes accidentally deflect or block.  The downsides to being a Cancer, my internal shell is always up unless I take it down, and I do not do that anymore.  Just gotta make out the muffled sounds and knocks

Well I got Venus in Cancer which governs my love life and I gotta admit this has been the most conflictual area of my life, where my Gemini-inherent-easygoingness was pushed into corners. I'm also moon in scorpio which is the emotional aspect of myself altogether that is with a shell and which is the literal symbolism of how my heart is and feels.

These concepts are truly powerful and dense, your birth chart is a good step toward doing the first step of understanding yourself. Ultimately you will find that things do become easier once you find the Creator within yourself, because it is forever who you are.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Dear C A,
After I read your post i had an inner dialogue, i couldnt resist posting it.
I hope you dont find it un-compassionate, since i clearly can see myself in you!

"Oh, i heard you re done with anger, hate and rage directing to people. Is that true? Why is it?"
"Oh, yes! I found it is unloving and causes pain, so i decided to never do it again!"
"Oh, thats a good choice! But i can see you're now directin that same rage against yourself"
" well, maybe, but thats different!"
"What is the difference?"
"i am an idiot, i should have known better. I deserve it!"
"Oh, so you're done with hurting people with your rage unless they are idiots that deserve it?"
"Well, mmhhh, aahh, yes. Because i am a stupid idiot who should have known better and i deserve it!"
"So, to be honest, you're still in the exact game?"
"Ah, well, hmm, yes. But it looks much better now !"
"So, although you know better and pretend to step out of the game, you feel driven for some reason to carry it on? Because you considerit justified?
Isnt that exactly what you did back then? Can you see you still havent enough consciousness in it to stop it?
Can you imagine you had less consciousness back then, and understand you had no other choice? Just like now you dont seem to have no other choice than attacking yourself?"

I can deeply relate to you. There is a part in me that is exactly the same.
You can help me in healing this when you accept healing and forgiveness.
As can I.
I will do my best, dear brother!

This made me smile a big stupid idiot grin.

I want to justify myself, say something like 'this is different, I choose to do this intentionally to myself whereas back then I didn't intentionally want to so deeply harm another, I was blind and numb'

But the reality seems to more closely resemble what you've pointed out.  I'm direction that which still is around inwardly, though I do do this to better observe myself as well.

I promise you, my feelings expressed here are very deep ones that I don't typically express even when I'm alone by myself.  I'm not constantly this way towards myself, but I did realize thanks to my expressing these feelings openly that I do feel these things more often that I was aware of and that it was pretty seriously effecting me.

I feel some resistance to being called 'unconscious' as well, which is my own trigger for some reason.  I guess I just don't like feeling like the one thing I believe I am, I'm not.  That's how I originally gave up on the prospect of ever being a healer.

Still though, I am a fool.  I look at my life and would identify myself as an idiot, who for the reasons for failing myself so damn often, does need to suffer for it to motivate me to stop screwing up my life so much.

I once in middle school went trick or treating dressed as 'the village idiot' in my casual attire.  People believed me.

Guess I'm a pretty convincing fake idiot lol.

[flofrog]

And how is anger distilled? To me this is done through finding the root of anger which is not anger.

Minya, do you feel the root of anger is only fear ?

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

I find my root of anger is the sense of powerlessness and helplessness.

[flofrog]

I think it is mine too C A. And then I turn that anger to myself..

[Agua del Cielo]

I insist in calling it unconscious
You may hate me now

The reason being, and I think this is crucial:

Let me tell you about trauma.
And please apologize, if i perceive you wrong.
And please apologize, if it sounds arrogant or so.

You know that word for sure. You have an image and more of it.
From what i gathered in your post, you had your fair share of traumatic experiences.
So you think you know what trauma is.
I honestly believe you dont.

I think, you have a good memory of what happened. Maybe when and how and with whom.
You probably still have very negative feelings about it.
And you can clearly see the impact and the consequences this had for your life.
But i would say, these emotions are only a weak echoes of the original trauma.

Please apologize, if you know this.
In a traumatic situation, you make an experience, which has a negative energy that is so overwhelming, so ultimately strong, you would not be able to survive this energy physically, let alone with mental sanity.
You immediately dissociate from the energy and the very incident, usually forgetting it for the most part or even completely. The energy and the incredible impact of emotions will be forgotten in any case.
One might maybe rember some fragments, not more.
You will most likely be a child, lets just say two years old. You will have to find a solution very fast, otherwise you will die. A two year old child has to make a decision.
It will dissociate and immediately "install" a defensive strategy. It will be the strategy of a two year old child.
Each time some outer situation (catalyst) has any kind of connection to the traumatic situation, a similar or common element, you will be (unconsciously) reminded of the traumatic situation.

The trauma does not exist in your past. It exists in time/space. It exists now. To a part of you it is happening now. And each time there is a trigger, you will make a connection to the trauma state.
You will not experience the full impact of the (old) emotion, but a part of it.
Your defensive mechanism will immediately be activated, because for the trauma-part it would be a question of life or death.
Your defensive mechanism might be anger, rage. Or whatever.
But the unconscious drive to the defense reaction would be enormously strong.

Unless you have enough consciousness to fully consciously access that trauma state, fully experience these emotions, there will always be an emotional residue. This will always render you unconscious, at least to a degree.
I think there is no way around it.

You might as well accept, that there will be times, when you re just being unavoidably umconscious, unless you re completely healed. And you will make mistakes.
Even i do sometimes i remember i made a mistake back in the nineties ...

Once you experienced what i described above, you will completely understand, why you have defense mechanisms and why they are just as they are.
And you will have understanding and compassion for that child in a lifethreatening situation and had to make the decision it made.
Because you dont see this, i thought you probably havent experienced this, thats why i wrote about it.
Please forgive, if i was wrong.

Your life situation seems to be extremely challenging at the moment, and i surely cant tell what is the main issue.
Since this whole monster, apology and self-forgiveness stuff seems to arise very often in your posts, this might as well be the cause for it.
You have nothing to lose if you try it.
And if self-punishment stops, your outer life might as well change, since there would be no more need for punishment.

My life was quite similar to yours some time ago. I have done loads of healing work and work in consciousness. Im fourty six now, and i still struggle, i still will fall into deep unconsciousness, i still suffer, i still find unforgiveness in me. And i still find im an idiot and the rest of the world also.
But most of the time my life is a big adventure, a fascinating journey and discovery. You can work your way out there and im sure you will.
With love and compassion and an idiots smile, dear brother, all the best

Ah, one more thing.
I think its surely necessary to dissolve old and present suffering, there is only one way : through
But its unwise to create ever more suffering which you then would have to work through.
Self-attack would be an unwise creation of unnecessary suffering...

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Some resonating and dissonance on my part to your post.

I was bothered by the word unconscious used to describe me, but now feel it may be appropriate in the context I now am understanding, especially since looking up the definition of unconscious and reapplying it in a way I feel you meant (being unaware of).

Beyond those remarks, give me time to ...Not so easily defend against your suggestions, to let down my shell and take it in.  It's not that I feel insult, but it is truly cognitive dissonance, where I shake my head and say 'naw, I don't think that...' then pause and realize I don't know and recognize myself making excuses or so quickly shrugging off or ignoring something that may apply to me more so than I'm willing to admit.

Or, I guess I'm asking you to give me time to work around an indigo chakra blockage of denial and to take deeply into consideration what you have said to me.

I will just say, I consider myself lucky to be spared most of the trauma I can only imagine upon others and do not consider myself in any way 'severely' traumatized.  Most of my suffering is of a spiritual sense, my mind and body might not know the sensation of trauma, but the feelings I've had in some way indicate the sense of trauma.  I don't know what distortions and karmic patterns I hold within myself from the past, but I think my tie for trauma has come and gone, and will only reappear should it need be necessary.

Your observation of my lack of trauma tells me it's somewhat obvious of me, still, I don't want that to make my experiences any less legitimate than another's...

I can imagine being treated against by racism, sexism, I can apply the sensation and imagine the twistedness of their sensations when utilized in other areas I might not be susceptible to, such as being racially profiled the way hispanics, african americans, jewish and islamic individuals are.  But I can still put my self in their shoes in my mind, and imagine the levels of suffering.  I might not know what they are truly, but I know I too can experience those depths of pain, and that to me is enough to empathize with them.

Maybe that's hurtful or inconsiderate, to say I can imagine what it's like to be raped from a woman's perspective, or to be assaulted by police from a black man's perspective, despite being a white male.  I don't think that's fair though.  I mean no harm, I want to understand, I just don't want to get...All scarred up in the process.  Maybe that's selfish, but I find responses of compassion can be selfish.

I look at everyone and tell myself, that there is a human being, equipped with many tools as I, similar in paradoxically dissimilar ways.  A formation of an extension of myself.

Their pain and suffering is my own.  My pain and suffering is theirs.

If I can't be capable of that because I haven't known the same trauma as them, then I see no reason to bother trying to sympathize with others any further if it's in some way become socially an insult over the last few years.

I don't recall having any vivid or clear memory during my being raped, the entire experience is mostly a blurred sequence of events pretty much summed up as one moment things were happening, then the next everything was done, and afterwards I was pretty hazy, like I had just come out of some kind of psychedelically enhanced meditation that was really intense and disorienting.  I recall not even thinking anything of the incident until a couple years ago when I was discussing it with someone else.  I had begun to wonder too, because as things seemed innocent enough back then, the memories and experiences are resoundingly effecting me presently.  I now and then have sexual urges to experiment with men because of those experiences, it was an intense one, it was how I lost my virginity, and as a first intense sexual experience, it's somewhat imprinted upon me...  But of it, the warning signs seem obvious now.  He never cared about me as a friend, he was doing drugs and alcohol back then (we weren't even 13 yet), only ever wanted me to hang out so he could get some sexual gratification out of it.  I thought it was all normal, and my romantic relationships now suffer from this echoing in myself.  He talked me into it, and pretty much made me his plaything.

And that's not even mentioning the girl in my childhood who did similar things to me.

But I try to just keep the experiences in a positive light...  I try not to even step into the darker views of how those experiences might have effected me.

Just know, I think my trauma is shallow and empty in comparison to some others, but it is still none the less, trauma.

...
Similarly, I think some minimal level of desire to suffering might be healthy for some people.  We certainly have masochists who find healing in inflicting suffering on themselves.  I just think, the want for suffering has it's uses.  Excessive use of it is extremely bad though, but sometimes the want to suffer can lead one right up to the door of their soul, with a place mat at the foot of the door with the words, 'Why, Welcome Home', and a sincere want to knock at that door to the soul, open it, step through it, and discover the light of the self through the darknesses of their sufferings, and discover why they are suffering, why they want to suffer. Why they've lost respect for themselves.

I found my recent depth of emotional turmoil, explored and admitted here, and not suppressed, in tandem with everyone love and support, has been helpful in working out these things.

I don't think I'm Jobe, or suffering in unimaginative or unusual ways.

But I don't write myself completely off either.

I'm trying to find a balance that works for me, you know?

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

...

I too find myself experiencing cognitive dissonance still with this post.  If you too will give me time to try and deeply consider these things you've said.

Seems I've hit a slow point in my processing...  Probably a natural point to slow down and take my time, as I have been a bit speedy these past few weeks in working with all of these things across the day.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Random question regarding potential polarity confusions.
I was going to make this question its own thread but I don't think that's necessary with this thread up.

Anyway, question is:
Is it not possible for a sto entity to polarize positively by being of paradoxical service to an sts entity?

I'll be honest, this is an open question in my book, I have no idea if it's at all somehow possible for it to be done.  Or if its wise to or any of that.  Its more a question of what ifs.

Maybe, it's not possible, and humorous even.
Or it is but through some very specific circumstances.
Or is it both?

I ponder of Jesus and his choice to forgive while being murdered for his beliefs.  Its an extreme example though.

They say sacrifice is a virtue.

Any ideas?

[flofrog]

I insist in calling it unconscious
You may hate me now

The reason being, and I think this is crucial:

Let me tell you about trauma.
And please apologize, if i perceive you wrong.
And please apologize, if it sounds arrogant or so.

You know that word for sure. You have an image and more of it.
From what i gathered in your post, you had your fair share of traumatic experiences.
So you think you know what trauma is.
I honestly believe you dont.

I think, you have a good memory of what happened. Maybe when and how and with whom.
You probably still have very negative feelings about it.
And you can clearly see the impact and the consequences this had for your life.
But i would say, these emotions are only a weak echoes of the original trauma.

Please apologize, if you know this.
In a traumatic situation, you make an experience, which has a negative energy that is so overwhelming, so ultimately strong, you would not be able to survive this energy physically, let alone with mental sanity.
You immediately dissociate from the energy and the very incident, usually forgetting it for the most part or even completely. The energy and the incredible impact of emotions will be forgotten in any case.
One might maybe rember some fragments, not more.
You will most likely be a child, lets just say two years old. You will have to find a solution very fast, otherwise you will die. A two year old child has to make a decision.
It will dissociate and immediately "install" a defensive strategy. It will be the strategy of a two year old child.
Each time some outer situation (catalyst) has any kind of connection to the traumatic situation, a similar or common element, you will be (unconsciously) reminded of the traumatic situation.

The trauma does not exist in your past. It exists in time/space. It exists now. To a part of you it is happening now. And each time there is a trigger, you will make a connection to the trauma state.
You will not experience the full impact of the (old) emotion, but a part of it.
Your defensive mechanism will immediately be activated, because for the trauma-part it would be a question of life or death.
Your defensive mechanism might be anger, rage. Or whatever.
But the unconscious drive to the defense reaction would be enormously strong.

Unless you have enough consciousness to fully consciously access that trauma state, fully experience these emotions, there will always be an emotional residue. This will always render you unconscious, at least to a degree.
I think there is no way around it.

You might as well accept, that there will be times, when you re just being unavoidably umconscious, unless you re completely healed. And you will make mistakes.
Even i do sometimes i remember i made a mistake back in the nineties ...

Once you experienced what i described above, you will completely understand, why you have defense mechanisms and why they are just as they are.
And you will have understanding and compassion for that child in a lifethreatening situation and had to make the decision it made.
Because you dont see this, i thought you probably havent experienced this, thats why i wrote about it.
Please forgive, if i was wrong.

Your life situation seems to be extremely challenging at the moment, and i surely cant tell what is the main issue.
Since this whole monster, apology and self-forgiveness stuff seems to arise very often in your posts, this might as well be the cause for it.
You have nothing to lose if you try it.
And if self-punishment stops, your outer life might as well change, since there would be no more need for punishment.

My life was quite similar to yours some time ago. I have done loads of healing work and work in consciousness. Im fourty six now, and i still struggle, i still will fall into deep unconsciousness, i still suffer, i still find unforgiveness in me. And i still find im an idiot and the rest of the world also.
But most of the time my life is a big adventure, a fascinating journey and discovery. You can work your way out there and im sure you will.
With love and compassion and an idiots smile, dear brother, all the best

Ah, one more thing.
I think its surely necessary to dissolve old and present suffering, there is only one way : through
But its unwise to create ever more suffering which you then would have to work through.
Self-attack would be an unwise creation of unnecessary suffering...

Hello Muad-dib
I find what you write so good for me too, thank you. I assume this is the way it works most of the time with trauma.
Not because I was in a very tolerant and free way raised originally as a christian, but i do feel we, or at least personally, we have guides or some sort of angelical or buddha guides who, I think will help this mechanism of protection happen when trauma happens.
I am an adult now, I mean I am seventy years old which sounds ancient but feel pretty much like twenty-five, and needing some more maturing. lol
But as every one else on our Gaia, got the little share of trauma, and I really really feel very akin to what you so eloquently described Muad-dib.

I think you are so right when you say trauma exist in time/space. I bet it will be interesting when we are able to view all the trauma we went through in multiple incarnations. In fact that thought makes me swell with admiration for my humane family

I think we are all so courageous. I saw the film Moonlight a few weeks ago and it just moved me so, and they depicts so well how trauma stays with you in like silver lining. Really thank you so much Muad-dib and C A

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

It's a bit hard to accept that experience is in an eternal state, but I think you're right for the most part...

Although...It's hard to accept that my inability to remember the experience vividly is because I'm not of a high enough consciousness to do so.

I'm sorry but I can't really accept that last part in some ways.  I just don't feel that it's fair way to judge someone's level of consciousness by how easily they can handle trauma without disassociating from it.  I don't think every 4D, 5D, or 6D soul that went through the more painful experiences as a 3D entity, just walked through those experiences without some level of trauma that they blocked out in some manner or another.

I find everything else mostly comes off as things that I can find to be true and accept.  I think those people who can manage to handle trauma without many blockages might be more efficiently equipped in some manner of personal bias to process those experiences.  Some people seem to be able to apply the idea of not crying over spilled milk to things like going through a traumatic experience.  I see that with things like becoming lonely or socially isolated in ways, but not in things like being raped or someone trying to ruin my life.  I think those demand more thought be considered as to how to avoid those energies in the future, how to not repeat the same mistakes and re-manifest those experiences.

I'm not big on the idea of transcending the human properties, I find they're somewhat integral to living a balanced life for myself...So for such exercises as experiencing a time/space trauma to acquire healing is maybe a bit too top heavy for me to try at this time...  I'll consider a visualization meditation of it tonight though...

I find the lower chakras make up these dimensions some of us are afraid to repeat cycles within such as 3D, as well as our many faults leading to unawareness, are all natural formations by the energy centers.  So to me, trying to shed my human ego or perform 'ego death' is not the path for me.  It's something to take into myself, not out of myself.  Or basically, to strive to perform it purposefully is inappropriate for me.  It needs to naturally fall away from no longer being needed, not because I'm trying to shake it off by doing what is supposed to work to make it shed away.

I see it this way, our human ego is a portion of the Yellow-Ray Personality Shell that in death deactivates, so what's the point in trying to prematurely deactivate the human ego within this Personality Shell?  Sure we came here to shine our loving soul self through our 3D self, but we need to consider the 3D self too as it is too a part of who we are as souls. The human body was not designed (by us as consciousnesses) to be able to handle in a prolonged way the energetic activation's necessary of the energetic body system to allow us to shine our true soul personalities through all the filters and distortions of our human energetic system.

We need to be our selves through (as you said) our human selves.  To try to be more than human as a human is...Not helpful in my experience.
As a human, seek to be a better you, that's all I think reality and the lessons offered here seek to teach us.  We get some dank and dark experiences to challenge this ability of ours as well.  It's not made to be easy...

In that sense, I think my experiences are as worthy as anyone else's in their purpose and meaning.  A 2 year old might not feel the same depths of awareness to the depths of pain it's experiencing, that doesn't make the experience any less painful.  The experience is recorded in the 2 year old now, maybe it's not conscious of the physical pain it endured, but on some level it's psyche is scarred by it all the same.

I see no apology needed from you Muad-dib, your words come from a place of love and wisdom, I'll try to not be so stubborn and arrogant when I find them too true to want to accept initially.  Just in kind, please forgive me and my inability to accept some bits of your advice.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

And how is anger distilled? To me this is done through finding the root of anger which is not anger.

I actually find it funny that I first agreed with this, then rereading it had the thought, 'if all things are all things then the root of anger both is and is not anger' which made me think about how that could be.

All I can think is in an eternal sense, the energy of anger is there drawing me to manifest it, and this is the root energetically, but physically the root is the cause of a response to energies like worthlessness, powerlessness, helplessness, and such.

Since eternally there is only one which is all, it seems self-perpetuation becomes possible by the future drawing past events to itself, making itself happen.

I mean, in tandem with your comment of trying to be an higher self, I first thought that wasn't possible cause it hasn't happened yet, then remembered simultaneity makes it possible as I'm being fed information from both the past and future as far as time/space connections are concerned.

The disciplines of the personality are essentially to transcend these attributes/limitations which you did not choose in your conscious awareness. You can consider them as the matrix of mind, body and spirit.

Is this an echo of 5.2 and Ra's teachings of the mental disciplines?

The second mental discipline is acceptance of the completeness within your consciousness. It is not for a being of polarity in the physical consciousness to pick and choose among attributes, thus building the roles that cause blockages and confusions in the already-distorted mind complex. Each acceptance smooths part of the many distortions that the faculty you call judgment engenders.

Because if it is, I should mention I'm not touching the Archetypes for a long time.  Too much potential for personality shatters to happen to me...

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/discipline?s=ts
4.
the rigor or training effect of experience, adversity, etc.:
the harsh discipline of poverty.

My mind isn't flexible enough to bend under the rigor of the training of the personality to manifest consciously the energies of the archetypes.  It's more like a creaking snapping sound, then some cracks emerge leading up to a total shatter.  Not quite ready for any of that yet...

Just responding to a few parts of your post, Min, still considering further your's and muad-dib's posts.

[Cobrien]

Infinity is the basis of the builded structure of existence. From within the illusion there is idealogical finity. Both exist. The veil exists for opportunity. 3rd density is about choice, not understanding.

The consider this. You are moving. Before that you were at rest. Now that you are moving you have forgotten how to rest. Your goal is to move while resting. Being able to move is the charge of polarity creating capacity for work.

Acceptance of all aspects of self is necessary. Unconscious judgement is a defacto rejection of self or other self.

I align with your journey.

In 2013 i did drugs and suffered from psychosis. I have been isolated all my life mainly becuase i wouldnt play the games. I was depressed since childhood. I remember the disharmonies tendencies of my young friends. I despaired for years. I had no outlet. After highschool when i realized taking AP classes and dual enrolling ment nothing, i eventually tried drugs.

They made everything worse in the end. I was unwell in a spiritually complex way because thru mediation i made contact with intelligent infinity. Embacing illusions is a dangerous game.

I stopped doing drugs, relapsed 6 times til i accepted and resolved the major depressive feeling that drew me to suicide.

In 2015 i was gaining ground and stability. Come the end of that year I received graduated from technical college. 2016 i worked resolving so many feelings.

Balance is a key to life. For a long time spirituality was an escape from life. Til i embraced life, i never really understood spirituality. I study the major arcana because it is beautiful.

I come now from a place of balance, to some degree.

The first step to unblocking energy centers is to accept the condition without judgement and realize the opposite is just as feasible.

We talk about masturbation on this forum. I mean, I was and to some degree am not emotionally healthy when it comes to sex and relationships. I simply want to share and give, but greatly fear rejection. I eventually desired to give and receive love in a controlled way. The longer time goes on the less impacted i feel by these fear and machinations of desires.

I make this point to say, almost everybody has a debiliating trauma in one way or another. Through seeking this becomes a stumbling block or an enabler to greater things. The key to positive utilization is acceptance without judgement.

We tend to learn more from painful experiences than pleasurable and joyous simply because they are often more abundant in many lives. I see no point on focusing beyond 4th density as its not likely to expect to recieve qualifications to enter those densities in this life.

[Agua del Cielo]

It's a bit hard to accept that experience is in an eternal state, but I think you're right for the most part...

Although...It's hard to accept that my inability to remember the experience vividly is because I'm not of a high enough consciousness to do so.

I'm sorry but I can't really accept that last part in some ways.  I just don't feel that it's fair way to judge someone's level of consciousness by how easily they can handle trauma without disassociating from it.  I don't think every 4D, 5D, or 6D soul that went through the more painful experiences as a 3D entity, just walked through those experiences without some level of trauma that they blocked out in some manner or another.

I find everything else mostly comes off as things that I can find to be true and accept.  I think those people who can manage to handle trauma without many blockages might be more efficiently equipped in some manner of personal bias to process those experiences.  Some people seem to be able to apply the idea of not crying over spilled milk to things like going through a traumatic experience.  I see that with things like becoming lonely or socially isolated in ways, but not in things like being raped or someone trying to ruin my life.  I think those demand more thought be considered as to how to avoid those energies in the future, how to not repeat the same mistakes and re-manifest those experiences.

I'm not big on the idea of transcending the human properties, I find they're somewhat integral to living a balanced life for myself...So for such exercises as experiencing a time/space trauma to acquire healing is maybe a bit too top heavy for me to try at this time...  I'll consider a visualization meditation of it tonight though...

I find the lower chakras make up these dimensions some of us are afraid to repeat cycles within such as 3D, as well as our many faults leading to unawareness, are all natural formations by the energy centers.  So to me, trying to shed my human ego or perform 'ego death' is not the path for me.  It's something to take into myself, not out of myself.  Or basically, to strive to perform it purposefully is inappropriate for me.  It needs to naturally fall away from no longer being needed, not because I'm trying to shake it off by doing what is supposed to work to make it shed away.

I see it this way, our human ego is a portion of the Yellow-Ray Personality Shell that in death deactivates, so what's the point in trying to prematurely deactivate the human ego within this Personality Shell?  Sure we came here to shine our loving soul self through our 3D self, but we need to consider the 3D self too as it is too a part of who we are as souls. The human body was not designed (by us as consciousnesses) to be able to handle in a prolonged way the energetic activation's necessary of the energetic body system to allow us to shine our true soul personalities through all the filters and distortions of our human energetic system.

We need to be our selves through (as you said) our human selves.  To try to be more than human as a human is...Not helpful in my experience.
As a human, seek to be a better you, that's all I think reality and the lessons offered here seek to teach us.  We get some dank and dark experiences to challenge this ability of ours as well.  It's not made to be easy...

In that sense, I think my experiences are as worthy as anyone else's in their purpose and meaning.  A 2 year old might not feel the same depths of awareness to the depths of pain it's experiencing, that doesn't make the experience any less painful.  The experience is recorded in the 2 year old now, maybe it's not conscious of the physical pain it endured, but on some level it's psyche is scarred by it all the same.

I see no apology needed from you Muad-dib, your words come from a place of love and wisdom, I'll try to not be so stubborn and arrogant when I find them too true to want to accept initially.  Just in kind, please forgive me and my inability to accept some bits of your advice.

Dear CA,
There was a misunderstanding in some parts!
You find ithard to accept, where it simply isnt true, maybe because i wasnt clear enough on that!

I was not referring to a person being overall completely unconscious.
I meant, the "trigger" would bring up echoes of the traumatic experience as well as activate the "defense mechanism".
This would render one unconscious for as long as the situation lasts and until one has " recovered"
For example, when your in a rage, it would indicate that you re unconscious in THAT moment, not neessarily your whole life!
Our degree of being present or conscious usually greatly varies. Very present now, completely unconscious then next moment.
That was what i was refering to. I was trying to make you understand the mechanisms of trauma and how unconscious patterns develop and why (because of the emotional charge) itwould be so hard to stay presentwhen they arise.
It was meant to be an aid in betterunderstanding and being able to self-forgive.

I think its not possible to access trauma just by will.
It took me more than two decades of therapy, meditation, conscious spiritual development and more to step by step come to this point.
It started at the surface. Examining the emotions in certain difficult situations. I would gradually find deeper roots, and each time it would arise newly, i got a little bit deeper. Over the decades i've come to the point i described and found these were the roots.
Each time, however, that i got a little bit deeper, i found iteasier to stay conscious, when those feelings would arise.
So, itis a very long process. One will need rest inbetween to develop stability, to gain trust and to find a new base for living one s life.
As i said, it is not to be expected to "access" this right now. My hope was simply, that the "process" and the factors involved would be more understandable, my further hope was it would help (because that knowing helped me to stay a little more conscious in these times) you being more present in those situations (because you can see at least to a certain degree that you re actually dealing witholdpain and old patterns), and my biggesthope was, to show, you justhad no other choice facing these emotions and would be able to forgive yourself.

I find the lower chakra work to be crucial, since otherwise the heart cant open and accessing "higher energies" would just magnify all difficulties.
I came to the conclusion, that the blockages are ultimately undissolved trauma and the resulting mechanisms.
Its probably a life long mission to unblock and resolve this.
I also found, that unprocessed experiences from other lifetimes would be re-actualized in this lifetime (by the means of traumatic experiences) so one would be provided with all "material" necessary.

Also, i dont advertise the ego being demonized. The ego is a sacred "institution" that serves an evolunionary purpose.
Many parts of the ego simply are necessary, at least for some time.
Every part of the ego thatis notneeded anymore will dissolve anyway.
I am just saying to not put the ego in thesriver's seat all thetime

And, no, i dont think we have to be "superhuman", overcoming our "human-ness". But if one is, for example, beating up ones wife, thatwould surely be an ego facet worth healingand dissolving, i think you get the point.

To clarify the example withthetwo year old:
The two year old would suffer from the pain the same way we would.
With dissociation i mean, it would seperate from the experience and suddenly stop feeling anything. Then the emotions as well as the very memory are usually being forgotten.
Btw, this dissociation , this state of non-feeling, is also a common state for many adults...easy to see what the possible roots of such a pattern would be...
When and if the point is reached where onere-experiences this traumatic situation, it would not be a memory,youwould be inthatsituation right now, thats what i meant with existing in time/space.
To the "experiencing consciously"
The two year old would feel the pain very much the same as we would, itwould only be even harder for him or her.
With consciously experiencing i meant, being completely present with the emotions, holding that awareness and the inner light, holding the energy until it subsides.
And with the "solution of a two year old" i meant, he would not have much life experince and simply not be "clever" enough to come up with a well-differenciated one-size-fits-it-all solution, and the "pattern" would be subconscious. Soone cannot "refine" it.
An example would be, a child is being hurt very badly maybe emotionally and/or physically by the parents.
The solution could be:
Someone being close while heart is open > much pain > close heart > pain reduced > solution to avoid re-occurence > never let someone close again
This would then be a solution, which would be necessary to survive. But twenty years later the situation would be different. You would be able to guard yourself emotionally and physically better and wouldnt need such a strong defense pattern.

The pattern however would be subconscious and it would lead to a life where you cannot even allow a close relationship.
Many people on a conscious level wish for a deep intimate relationship, the even try affirmations and stuff.
But it just dont happen. And they wouldnt even know why.
It would be (in this case) the pain-avoidance solution of a two year old and one wouldbe completely unaware of it.

(Btw, this is one of the reasons i think affirmations are quite useless, as long as the root of the situation is not discovered. One would try to "beat" a pattern, whichhas a very good reason AND has an incredible emotional energy behind it with some "whimpy" half-hearted affirmations, ignoring the fact that there is a necessity to the pattern or situation, at least for thatpart of us, who created it)



I hope, this clarifies a little!

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

I was not referring to a person being overall completely unconscious.
I meant, the "trigger" would bring up echoes of the traumatic experience as well as activate the "defense mechanism".
This would render one unconscious for as long as the situation lasts and until one has " recovered"
For example, when your in a rage, it would indicate that you re unconscious in THAT moment, not neessarily your whole life!
Our degree of being present or conscious usually greatly varies. Very present now, completely unconscious then next moment.
That was what i was refering to. I was trying to make you understand the mechanisms of trauma and how unconscious patterns develop and why (because of the emotional charge) itwould be so hard to stay presentwhen they arise.
It was meant to be an aid in betterunderstanding and being able to self-forgive.

My eyes uncovered, I understand what you mean now!  I totally can agree with this!

I think its not possible to access trauma just by will.
It took me more than two decades of therapy, meditation, conscious spiritual development and more to step by step come to this point.
It started at the surface. Examining the emotions in certain difficult situations. I would gradually find deeper roots, and each time it would arise newly, i got a little bit deeper. Over the decades i've come to the point i described and found these were the roots.
Each time, however, that i got a little bit deeper, i found iteasier to stay conscious, when those feelings would arise.
So, itis a very long process. One will need rest inbetween to develop stability, to gain trust and to find a new base for living one s life.
As i said, it is not to be expected to "access" this right now. My hope was simply, that the "process" and the factors involved would be more understandable, my further hope was it would help (because that knowing helped me to stay a little more conscious in these times) you being more present in those situations (because you can see at least to a certain degree that you re actually dealing witholdpain and old patterns), and my biggesthope was, to show, you justhad no other choice facing these emotions and would be able to forgive yourself.

Back in 2014, I consider myself extremely lucky to have experienced a 'full spiritual awakening'...  During those days I documented many things in a journal that reading back now looks like a jumble of insanity, yet I can see in it the Love I felt, it had no rational the way my intellectual mind operates, it was just...  A better way of being than I am now.

When I read a lot of stuff Plenum talks about, or others regards the experiences and sensations acquired during their times in their spiritual journeys, I find, as I just did with your statement, that I have felt and discovered many of the things already described to me.  In italics above it another tidbit that I've personally experienced.  Except for me this plethora of roots came to a sort of energetic center of negativity, I called it a 'horrorcore' back then, but now view it more as an engine of energies that I need to dismantle over what I know is going to take years.  To this day, I scratch the surface of this negative energy engine I have going on inside of me...  I peaked inside of it once and saw that darkness looks back, and only you change.

In truth I looked down the rabbit hole deeper and deeper, it warped my mind, my time spent here and all the self debauchery I was putting myself through being unable to connect or share myself with others the way I wish and desire to do so.  I found many things during my time of dark exploration.  I discovered we all do have truly any capability within us.  I'm apparently not that far away from a manifest serial killer, no wonder the show Dexter's main character, serial killer Dexter, resonated so painfully deep for me.  I talked to that dark part of my shadow self one time.  It vowed to murder me if it ever had the chance.

So I'm...Partially experienced in exploring such things, especially through the lower courtyard of the green ray...  I'm also used to walking up to the darkest parts of my psyche and foolishly introducing myself.  Not every part of my subconscious likes me, some parts want to kill me.  Might explain the suicidal desires.

I find the lower chakra work to be crucial, since otherwise the heart cant open and accessing "higher energies" would just magnify all difficulties.
I came to the conclusion, that the blockages are ultimately undissolved trauma and the resulting mechanisms.
Its probably a life long mission to unblock and resolve this.
I also found, that unprocessed experiences from other lifetimes would be re-actualized in this lifetime (by the means of traumatic experiences) so one would be provided with all "material" necessary.

The italicized is a massive understatement.  In my experience as I did exactly that accidentally as I searched for a way to perform the concepts in question from a purely contemplative template (without meditation, HINT: IT DOESN'T WORK, DON'T NOT MEDITATE), I find that everything, everything, was like a ball of hooks, and I was covered in my own hooks.  Everything took me for a spin, I lost my mind from normal life from suddenly being unable to ignore something as simple as the sound of someone hammering down my street.  Every little thing appreciated became overwhelmingly obvious in a negative sense of causing annoyance one way or another.

Suddenly I went from being in heaven to hell.  Every little thing I once loved and felt accosted by suddenly became painfully separate.

This was most vivid when I had to force myself to eat anything at all, believing my consuming a fruit was hurting it.  The distortions possible from doing work in the higher chakras without proper maintenance to the lower chakras CANNOT BE UNDERSTATED, everything from stepping into a perception of living in hell to actually acquiring severe mental illnesses, to every day mundane activities becoming too intense to handle.  Go water the plants, you think you're drowning them.  Go enjoy a tree, become painfully aware of it's removed limbs and feel it's pain.  Sit with a cup of tea, drink it and enjoy, only to realize you're sipping dead tree skin juice.

Reality can become sick and twisted even in a light of love.  Over empathizing can create delusions.  Too much compassion can blind you.  You're absolutely right that discovering and developing a stability is helpful.  For me presently, and this might change soon, stability comes at consciously not overly polarizing.  I've got this great big ol ocean of Love sitting alongside this infinite well of hatred, I'm pretty sure an ocean can engulf a well even if it's infinite, doesn't mean the well won't one day fill up an ocean, but if that ocean finds a way to plug the well before that happens, it doesn't matter, love prevails.

My problem is I give love like it's candy, want some love?  Here you go!  Want some love?  Here you are! Look, some love!

DID SOMEONE SAY FREE STUFF LOVE??


Love for YOU, Love for YOU, EVERYONE GETS LOOOOOOVVVEE!!

So like I know I seem dark and moody, and in a lot of ways I actually am, no clue why I am, I don't know myself like I did back in 2014, but I'm sure I just resonate with the 'spooky' sides of reality and their misunderstoodness, such as negative polarity, although it's hard to understand some of the actions of extreme sts polarized acts, but in the light of a Wisdom/Love orientation, they become a bit less hard to accept.

Still hard though.

I can't say I disagree at all with you so far.  My experience matches what you've said, I however greatly wonder what lessons belong to my past lives...

I don't know why, but I badly want to know about my past lives lately for some reason, I feel like answers lie therein...

Also, i dont advertise the ego being demonized. The ego is a sacred "institution" that serves an evolunionary purpose.
Many parts of the ego simply are necessary, at least for some time.
Every part of the ego thatis notneeded anymore will dissolve anyway.
I am just saying to not put the ego in thesriver's seat all thetime

My experience back in 2014 was, to me, an experience of soul self shining through unhindered due to the ego falling away like a flower petal moves down to reveal the nectar in the bud.  During that time I can say without a doubt, heaven exists in Earth, Love IS all around us all the time, everywhere, it's hidden in plain sight, it's before our very eyes, it's in us, around us, as us, and we don't even know.  We don't know that the fabric of space is love, the plenum surrounding us is love, the time about us is love, the moment is love.  Just, Love.  Everything became Love, and in that, you recognize 3D to be a rather dark place metaphysically speaking in terms of the purity of love.  Truly this place is quite an experience for a soul...I imagine the human design might even act as a dampener of the severe impact it might have on some souls to be accosted with the sleeping behaviors of their fellow incarnatees.

But alas, as my ego shed like a flower petal, it eventually came back, and made it very clear it did not appreciate being put to death, so to speak.

Made me know, next time I do something like that, I need to take it with me, rather than leave it behind.  I was given a spiritual awakening, and now I have a somewhat decently clear compass and map and even a sextant for polarity's sake, yet the human condition is palpable and dense.  It's easy to just be lazy and give up in spiritual matters sometimes.  I am...Words cannot describe, beyond grateful for those experiences back across 2014.  I have from it a template for the rest of my life.  Whatever happened to me back then, I thank myself not enough for it.

I tried even, tried to document the occurrences, tried to document what I did to achieve these sensations, and it all fails to explain, fails to describe, fails to depict.  It is not something to be recorded and repeated, it is purely, wholly, unique.  Things like objective and subjective became the same with subtle differentiations of subjective objectivity and objective subjectivity, everything was through its manners of illusive division belonging to love and one another.

I understood things back then that I couldn't properly document, to try and speak of these things now...I feel like a fool, a hypocrite, like I'm not cut out for such discussion.

And, no, i dont think we have to be "superhuman", overcoming our "human-ness". But if one is, for example, beating up ones wife, thatwould surely be an ego facet worth healingand dissolving, i think you get the point.

If one's beating up their wife that's more than an ego facet to be healed, that's a karmic lesson being accrued.  Unless that person can forgive themselves for what they did, I doubt any amount of healing work would dissolve that facet.

Actually, I think it's not right to view the concepts of 'ego death' as an ascension, transcendence, dissolution, or dissolvement of the human ego.  My experience was purely beautiful, there was no death, it was deactivation, it wasn't distilling or dissolving, those belong to the processes leading up to the lessening of the need for the lessons of the ego.  The act of ego deactivation isn't so much deactivating either.

I...See...Saw it in my mind as a flower blooming from it's unbloomed bud state.  The petals are facets of the ego, the nectar inside is the sweet honey of love to be shined into the world by the petals blooming.  For the petals to bloom and fall downward is synonymous with the ego humbly bowing so that it may make way for something it too desired.  Once this something has made it's way, the ego will sternly stand back up, and like the flower petal rising and returning to a budding state, the nectar covered again, the ego reasserts its self.  I've heard sometimes it reasserts itself gently and compassionately slowly returning to lower vibrations, I personally experienced my ego having jealousy towards the whole experience, not being able to be as fulfilling as it's soul reflection was disturbing.  As was realizations like the body is a machine for the soul, and the yellow ray personality shell that makes up us as a human identity does deactivate in death, in essence making death in a sense a true end to the human identity, it's being living on inside of our consciousness, but not as our consciousness because we as human's already are as consciousness, just in human form.

But truly, abusing a spouse would accrue karma in my mind.  It'd require some form of working off beyond a simple polarization of self forgiveness, even if that working off were as simple as consciously choosing never to hit your spouse again, and making this up to her and regaining her trust if possible, and if not, simply learning from your mistake.

Though I think karma is less needing to suffer an experience as much as needing to be held to forgiving an experience.  In this instance, forgiving the self for hitting the spouse, and learning from that forgiveness why not to do that, and choosing not to do that the next time the potential to manifest such behavior comes round.

To clarify the example withthetwo year old:
The two year old would suffer from the pain the same way we would.
With dissociation i mean, it would seperate from the experience and suddenly stop feeling anything. Then the emotions as well as the very memory are usually being forgotten.
Btw, this dissociation , this state of non-feeling, is also a common state for many adults...easy to see what the possible roots of such a pattern would be...
When and if the point is reached where onere-experiences this traumatic situation, it would not be a memory,youwould be inthatsituation right now, thats what i meant with existing in time/space.
To the "experiencing consciously"
The two year old would feel the pain very much the same as we would, itwould only be even harder for him or her.
With consciously experiencing i meant, being completely present with the emotions, holding that awareness and the inner light, holding the energy until it subsides.
And with the "solution of a two year old" i meant, he would not have much life experince and simply not be "clever" enough to come up with a well-differenciated one-size-fits-it-all solution, and the "pattern" would be subconscious. Soone cannot "refine" it.
An example would be, a child is being hurt very badly maybe emotionally and/or physically by the parents.
The solution could be:
Someone being close while heart is open > much pain > close heart > pain reduced > solution to avoid re-occurence > never let someone close again
This would then be a solution, which would be necessary to survive. But twenty years later the situation would be different. You would be able to guard yourself emotionally and physically better and wouldnt need such a strong defense pattern.

The pattern however would be subconscious and it would lead to a life where you cannot even allow a close relationship.
Many people on a conscious level wish for a deep intimate relationship, the even try affirmations and stuff.
But it just dont happen. And they wouldnt even know why.
It would be (in this case) the pain-avoidance solution of a two year old and one wouldbe completely unaware of it.

This clarification hurts in that I recognize that example within myself...  and I don't know how to respond because of it...  I'll just say thank you, this opens my eyes...

(Btw, this is one of the reasons i think affirmations are quite useless, as long as the root of the situation is not discovered. One would try to "beat" a pattern, whichhas a very good reason AND has an incredible emotional energy behind it with some "whimpy" half-hearted affirmations, ignoring the fact that there is a necessity to the pattern or situation, at least for thatpart of us, who created it)

I find it's not the affirmation itself that does anything, but the psychological nudge it induces over time.  The affirmation can be a good conscious reminder for those of short attention span.  It's nudge will resoundingly effect a person if they are taken seriously and performed habitually daily.

I'm a HUGE PROPONENT of the study that found habits form and break over 21 days of daily performance.  It took me around 22 days of consistently polarizing for momentum to take over and for the entire need to choose to become almost a second nature choice towards sto.  From there I can't recall the months that flew by through the love I felt, it all happened so...Slowly and vividly, yet so fast!  One month became six months.  Then another four flew by, then things began to slow down, I stopped meditating around then in an attempt to see if the same experiences could be had from a purely contemplative configuration without meditation.

I'm still recovering from the psychological distress that came with trying that...  NOTE TO SELF, DON'T do Work in Consciousness WITHOUT meditating! lol

I hope, this clarifies a little!

It clarified things a lottle!

[Agua del Cielo]

I'm very glad the clarification helped

I think the unbalanced activation of higher chakra energy has to be experienced and also the imbalance and pain it causes. You simply wouldnt believe it otherwise.
I didnt
I did this many many times for years again and again
Its getting a little bit better the last years, but i still have a tendency to overdo it at times.
Mostly i am willing to deal with the consequences however.

I think its important to note, that one doesnt really "lose" a state , a pleasant state, one has reached before.
I would rather say, one reached that state while still withholding deeper, umhealed portions of the self.
Then, a while later, one would allow more portions of the self, more unhealed facets to arise.
This feels like having lost the state one was in, but actually it is not.
One would have more practice and strength, and what once took maybe 10 years to achieve can be done in a year or couple of months.
You will come back to that state again, this time with more of your self integrated (a side note to your fascination with language, this would be what integrity truly means).
Then at some point new facets will arise. The process will accelerate more and more, recovery will someday be a questions of days or even hours.
And the higher states will spread more and more.

A word to the habit breaking:
I find your practice very valuable, as well as i can see a use in affirmation.
However, i believe its crucial to realize there are deeper roots and try to discover them.
Otherwise an incredible amount of discipline will be needed to sustain this for a longer period of time.

I view most of the "habits" as being a necessity rather than a flaw.
Each would represent an old solution to a problem.
And there would be an enormous emotional charge to it.
You would need a lot of control and suppression to sustain new habits.

I think first the need for the habit has to be understood and honored.
Then one can come up with better solutions. Thats where the habit breaking and affirmations come into play. In reminding one constantly, in helping to make a conscious choice.

Lets take the example of the two year old above.
You can affirm as much as you want, i wont reach the (stiil existing) two year old and its strategies, simply because you are not aware of it.
You can tell him/her as long as you want "all is safe, there is no danger" , the child would still be in agony, and imagine how much energy, how much power there would be in a decision or strategy that you make while facing your extinction for example.
So, you can fight, you can have discipline, but at some point the two year old will "win" simply because it has much much more energy.
If you however have enough consciousness in the situation the strategy is being triggered and executed, you would be in a position to consciously make a different choice.
Ultimately, you would have to experience the root of the issue at least to a degree, then you would be in a position to make a change.
Because your system knows you are willing and able to face the specific emotion and the very need for that strategy gets less and finally dissolves.

At least finding out, what the roots are, what the strategy is, why it is, would help in understanding it in the first place. And in understanding that it has no bad intention per se.
One could then develop better strategies, for example, being aware if closeness with a person becomes uncomfortable, honestly speking it out and for example take some time out, be some time with yourself.

That was a great work-around for me.
It showed my "inner child" that i am aware of it, it made the very spot usually some unconscious means of seperation like discussion, denating, arguing, or withdrwel would arise an opportunity to guard myself consciously, satisfy my needs consciously, honor my difficulties consciously.
After some time i was convinced that i would care for myself and was able to allow more and more closeness, more intimacy and so on.

Thats what i meant by that.

[Minyatur]

And how is anger distilled? To me this is done through finding the root of anger which is not anger.

Minya,  do you feel the root of anger is only fear ?

I find this question a bit tricky. I feel tempted to say yes but also no at the same time. If we postulate that all is well, then perhaps any lower ray blockages have root with a fear of what is perceived as unwell.

More than fear, I had in mind emotions of the more vulnerable self (of which fear is part) and by accepting your anger and seeking to understand it, you allow yourself to face it's core and face unhealed portions of yourself that are it's root.

[Minyatur]

And how is anger distilled? To me this is done through finding the root of anger which is not anger.

I actually find it funny that I first agreed with this, then rereading it had the thought, 'if all things are all things then the root of anger both is and is not anger' which made me think about how that could be.

All I can think is in an eternal sense, the energy of anger is there drawing me to manifest it, and this is the root energetically, but physically the root is the cause of a response to energies like worthlessness, powerlessness, helplessness, and such.

Since eternally there is only one which is all, it seems self-perpetuation becomes possible by the future drawing past events to itself, making itself happen.

I think here you are touching on the unity of all moments. Is the One whole without a portion of Itself? Is love whole without a facet of itself?

There are many aspects to reality which are of themselves of a more timeless nature and time is then a parameter for the expression of their spectrum as separate portions. Anger is to love what a color is to white light.

I mean, in tandem with your comment of trying to be an higher self, I first thought that wasn't possible cause it hasn't happened yet, then remembered simultaneity makes it possible as I'm being fed information from both the past and future as far as time/space connections are concerned.

I think the Higher Self is a more particular point. Even without the aspect of "absolute simultaneity", time should not be understood as a linear concept in my view.

37.6 Questioner: In that case, we’ll go ahead with the questions we have here continuing the last session. You said that each third-density entity has an higher self in the sixth density which is moving to the mind/body/spirit complex of the entity as needed. Does this higher self also evolve in growth through the densities beginning with the first density, and does each higher self have a corresponding higher self advanced in densities beyond it?

Ra: I am Ra. To simplify this concept is our intent. The higher self is a manifestation given to the late sixth-density mind/body/spirit complex as a gift from its future selfness. The mid-seventh density’s last action before turning towards the allness of the Creator and gaining spiritual mass is to give this resource to the sixth-density self, moving as you measure time in the stream of time.

This self, the mind/body/spirit complex of late sixth density, has then the honor/duty of using both the experiences of its total living bank or memory of experienced thoughts and actions, and using the resource of the mind/body/spirit complex totality left behind as a type of infinitely complex thought-form.

In this way you may see your self, your higher self or Oversoul, and your mind/body/spirit complex totality as three points in a circle. The only distinction is that of your time/space continuum. All are the same being.

To me, the Higher Self is more of a portion of the self than a distinct self to the self. In the same fashion I'd describe Intelligent Infinity as the Highest Self, which is whole even when contempled by any sub-portion of Infinity.

The closer you are to your Higher Self, the more you are conscious of your beingness within this Octave, just as the closer you are to Intelligent Infinity, the more you are conscious of your beingness as Infinity. The further you are from any of those, the more your conscious awareness is akin to an unconscious aspect of your truer being just like Infinity is not something you become but that you are. Truth is, your Higher Self is not merely something along the line of your future, it is something you are nothing without. It is a least separated/illusion-bound portion of what you are.

The disciplines of the personality are essentially to transcend these attributes/limitations which you did not choose in your conscious awareness. You can consider them as the matrix of mind, body and spirit.

Is this an echo of 5.2 and Ra's teachings of the mental disciplines?

The second mental discipline is acceptance of the completeness within your consciousness. It is not for a being of polarity in the physical consciousness to pick and choose among attributes, thus building the roles that cause blockages and confusions in the already-distorted mind complex. Each acceptance smooths part of the many distortions that the faculty you call judgment engenders.

Because if it is, I should mention I'm not touching the Archetypes for a long time.  Too much potential for personality shatters to happen to me...

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/discipline?s=ts
4.
the rigor or training effect of experience, adversity, etc.:
the harsh discipline of poverty.

My mind isn't flexible enough to bend under the rigor of the training of the personality to manifest consciously the energies of the archetypes.  It's more like a creaking snapping sound, then some cracks emerge leading up to a total shatter.  Not quite ready for any of that yet...

Just responding to a few parts of your post, Min, still considering further your's and muad-dib's posts.

Here I'd say it can be a quite simple work. Whenever you think in a particular way or feel things in a particular way, remind yourself you are not only this view. The ability of the adept is one to step back from the cause and effect of the moment to attain a higher view of the same moment.

I had in mind the other quote I shared in this thread (74.11) which said the goal of the disciplines of the personality are to become transparent in personality. I think this part was quite important "There is then no personality in the sense with which the adept begins its learn/teaching". It's all about learn/teaching what the Creator is and to be transparent in personality is to not block on aspects of what your reality feeds you of the Creator but to seek to learn of the Creator in all things.