New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations

[Spiritualchaos]

Please bear with me, as I try my best to explain what I have been noticing as easily as I can, and wonder if anyone has anything to share on this ever so frustrating subject.

Why do you feel the new age movement is going in the direction that it is going? The reason why I ask this, is that I have noticed a huge influx of people hopping on the “new age” train, and every single one of them is putting their content behind some sort of a paywall, and a lot of these people do not seem to have anything new to offer that has not been said hundreds of times already, in hundreds of different ways. It’s very confusing to even sort out the language created, as more and more people are refuting terms completely, or renaming them entirely. It’s hard for anyone to keep up. 

Every time I see someone advertising a service, I click on it to see what they are charging. Few people are fairly humble about what they charge, or charge very little, or give everything away for free, like L/L Research does with the Law of One and all of their materials. I am not including these people in this topic, as I feel their humble efforts are greatly appreciated, as they understand it’s not about the money, it’s about the service to others.

There are so many spiritual YouTubers who have platforms these days. As an example, Jason Shurka has UNIFYD, Kyle Cease has the Absolute Everything Pass, and Aaron Abke has started 4D University. There are people with YouTube channels who are claiming to have the knowledge on who and what is false light. (Tony Sayers on YouTube as an example). The spiritual war that is going down is absolute madness it seems. Even the less popular YouTubers and other spiritual websites are peddling supplements, vitamins and spiritual gear at exorbant prices. They are teaching you concepts like, that you are not the body, yet you can tell that their students are funding a lifestyle for them, and they cannot even bother to live by the things they teach. And most of them are not even trying to appear humble about it, as all it takes is a tiny bit of searching to see how they flaunt that lifestyle all over social media. I do not understand how one can have credibility in teaching these things when they cannot live the things they teach themselves. It’s a strange conundrum I am having trouble wrapping my mind around as to why so many of these people are as popular as they are. 

I know people are calling out for information, but why would it ever need to cost anything to provide that service to others? If it’s that important, getting it out there as widespread as possible should be the priority right? It’s important that the information is out here, for when those who are seeking are ready for that information. I do understand people need make a living in the way our society is current functioning, but why does the amount they charge/make have to fund a lifestyle for these spiritual teachers, instead of them living humbly while teaching this information to others as freely as possible. They are teaching you that the love you give out to the universe, you will receive, yet they only want to share this love with you if you are willing to pay for it. 

Some examples I’ve seen recently of spiritual teachers showing their true colors:

I saw someone post a link to a live YouTube with David Wilcock, that in the middle of live session, was overheard telling his wife to “say some s***” to his viewers to keep it going. Reddit Link to Video Here 

I read an article about this spiritual YouTube guy who was manipulating people, Article Found Here and it strangely sounded like exactly what I see a lot of these other guys doing. 

I even saw a post on Reddit who thought all of these people eventually end up becoming cult leaders in a sense. Reddit Article Found Here

Then, because of my own spiritual connection, I have been watching one of these guys who I believe is a wanderer, and I got this email sent to me about their new platform and I was just flabbergasted. I have changed the names but I can imagine you can guess who this is, I know people are very observant and clever. 

Do you want to know why I created this Online Platform? Here is the honest truth.

I’ll let you in on a little secret I haven't shared with anyone before. For the past two years I was working with a sales/marketing team who I signed a 2-year contract with to help me create my first course, “Class Title”. I love the team I worked with and learned so much from them. However, the sales format was just not my cup of tea. But because I signed a contract, I had to uphold my end of the deal, which was to sell and market my courses the way they determined.

This gave me the time and space to feel into what does feel authentic for me. While I have hundreds of free videos on YouTube, my courses allow me to go in-depth with people through 1-on-1 work and hands on training. It is my greatest passion. But I still long to help more people, and although high price points create incredible levels of motivation and discipline in people, it can often be a barrier to entry for others who don’t believe they can afford it.

I don’t have anything “against” selling spiritual courses for high price points necessarily. Everyone else in this space does it, and it is a very effective way to help people have breakthroughs. There is a reason people have life-altering experiences at Tony Robbins events. When someone is willing to put down a few thousand dollars because they want freedom more than the money they are paying, they are making a powerful statement of faith to the universe and to their own subconscious mind. And that is exactly what I witnessed in my masterclass for the last two years. After having about 250 graduates who completed all 8 modules, every single person without exception has left a raving review of “Class Title”, and how it transformed their state of consciousness.

On the other hand, I have given my course out for free to about 10 people over those two years who were either close friends, or people who expressed a heartfelt desire and calling to be in the course, but didn’t feel they could afford it. Out of those 10 people, not a single one of them ever made it past the 2nd module.

Seriously. 10/10 quit after module 1, while 250 others who bought the course left emotional, sometimes teary-eyed testimonial reviews about it. Imagine pouring your heart and soul every day for 6 months into creating a comprehensive program to help people get free, giving it away to people who express they are in need of it, and then have them not even bother to take it.

Why does this happen, you ask? Because it cost them nothing, so they didn’t perceive any value in it.

Discipline is the natural result of seeing where true value lies. The mind only takes seriously what it perceives value in. So it has become a clear fact to me that when people invest in their spiritual growth, whether a retreat, a book or a course, they always reap the rewards (at least in every instance I have witnessed). And those who do not invest tend not to get what they didn’t pay for.

With that being said, I have felt that it doesn’t necessarily require thousands of dollars to get people to take your course seriously. I feel it can be done for just a few hundred. While there is no lack in this infinite Universe, if someone “believes” something is more affordable, they may take the leap of faith to do it which they wouldn’t have at a higher price point. I want to get as many people in the door as possible, because I want to impact as many people as possible. I dream of creating a virtual resource with every tool and teaching available to help spiritual seekers attain the goal of Enlightenment. An online spiritual academy specifically dedicated to teaching and facilitating the expansion of consciousness. I want to help humanity reach the 4th Density.

But before I could realize that dream, I had to wait until I had fulfilled my previous contract. So I got to work over the last year and a half creating multiple new courses, saving up for a private membership platform, building a smartphone app, and everything else it takes to pull this dream off. And with great joy and gratitude I can finally say that in almost 1 week, that dream will become Reality.

Because you are amongst the first to join me in manifesting this Reality, I am going to be giving you a 10% discount off every month of your Online Platform membership as a token of gratitude when you enroll between July 1st-July 10th. I can’t thank you enough for joining me in this mission to assist humanity in reaching the 4th Density. Together as One, we will bring Heaven to Earth.

First off, this seems to me, to be a preemptive, “don’t complain about what I’m going to charge” email. The second is that they have completely justified their high costs as they believe no one would ever be motivated unless there was some sort of money exchange involved. I’m not saying I disagree, but I also do not agree with this statement at all.  It feels like they are concerned about the collective consciousness of the planet, but seem to lack empathy for an individuals situation. A lot of it was very well worded but to me it felt like a manipulation and I actually was pretty uncomfortable that someone I have a soul connection with is doing this to people, I cannot even comprehend how they got so far off track. How much good information is going to get lost because of the way it’s being presented. Even if the information is useful and on target, it’s confusing seeing someone tell you how to live when they clearly are not living that way themselves. 

There is a lot of tension in the world right now, I see it everywhere I go, as even this morning I witness a Lays employee kicking boxes of chips around Walmart angrily while talking on his cell phone. There is so much strange stuff happening these days, like the ten thousand cattle that “mysteriously” died, the earthquake in Afghanistan, etc. I feel like expanded awareness is needed greatly right now to be prepared and it’s needed so desperately, that it should be given away to everyone for free, letting them use their own free will to decide if it’s the information that resonates with them as an individual expression of the One Infinite Creator. There are bigger things happening right now, and telling people they will not learn unless they spend a lot of money is very manipulative. Most people in general are spending less because they realize they may need it for their own physical survival, because it’s really up in the air as to what is going to happen during this transition to the fourth density, and throwing all that money down on a spiritual teacher who may or may not have the right kind of vibe for you, and having to do it again, and again, and again, to find the right one, because everyone charges now for their information, is really unfair. “Enlightenment, or feeding your kids: You choose.” 

Where is the compassion, the love, the empathy for each other? If you truly wanted to be of service, money would not even enter your mind. Maybe you would not be able to do it for a life of luxury, but doing it instead for the sake of being of service, and living a humble life while you do it seems more in line with the Law of One. It’s all an illusion anyways, and you will always have exactly what you need in order to learn what you came here to learn.

Maybe I am too idealistic, too hopeful, too naive? I just do not understand what is happening out there and I’d love to hear some thoughts.

[tadeus]

Maybe I am too idealistic, too hopeful, too naive? I just do not understand what is happening out there and I’d love to hear some thoughts.

New-Age is attractive because people don't need to work on the self or a lifeplan.
Just be positive - manifest positive - everything else is not relevant.
You have not to care, to learn, to think, to work, to decide.
You have not to fight with doubts, your own self or history, a complex worldview.
Everythink is focussed on the thoughts of the self and not really on the relation to others or surroundings, so it is a nice step to STS.

The dogma is: When something is bad it is your own fault, because you have manifested it.
So be as positive and passive as possible - the perfect friendly clod of loam that will be no problem to anyone, specially the matrix.

[Spiritualchaos]

I learned my lesson a different way. I saw others having fun playing games on their smartphones so I upgraded my ordinary flip phone that didn’t have the bells and whistles. I was introduced to app stores where I found various games that would keep me busy for hours. There was this one game called ‘Asphalt 8’. It didn’t take long until I found myself spending money to upgrade features. 3 years had passed and I had spent a little over $1,000 US. I got frustrated with all the advertisements always playing even though they offered free digital money in exchange for watching. I was introduced to the Ra Material in 2017. My addiction persisted beyond words of wisdom. It was about a year and a half later after continuously reading about spiritual content that I decided to delete every game on my smartphone. I deleted all my social media. I unsubscribed from various Youtube channels that came across as a money grab. I was reduced to less than what I was.

or so I thought...

It took a few days to balance my sleeping schedule. It took longer to keep resisting the urge to play one more game or see something new on twitter. I decided to redirect my attention to reading about spiritual content. I didn't do all this alone. My dreams became more vivid and I was able to remember them more often. I took a closer look to what was being communicated. I can't say they have all the answers nor do I. After relaxing my mind and staying away from things that create frustration I am able to focus on things that bring meaning into my life. What I like the most about Bring4th is the free exchange of knowledge and experiences. Some people want to bombard themselves with useless information or pay to think they are getting ahead of something. I say let them. Maybe one day we will see them on websites such as Bring4th sharing stories of how naive they were.

From reading your reply, I would like to suggest that from your own description, that you may have replaced one addiction for another. I have noticed that you are frequently the first poster to respond to every new thread on this board, within a short period of time they are posted. Is it enthusiasm for the information presented or an addiction to spiritual topics that is driving you? I would spend some time in contemplation to see what you learn when you ask yourself this question honestly.

I feel like you missed the point of what I was saying entirely. I am not having troubles sleeping, nor am I worried sick to the point where I cannot function. My mind is quiet, but my feelings are strong, and they have always led me to exactly where I am supposed to go, and show me exactly what I am supposed to notice.  I notice patterns, as the whole universe is made of patterns, and there are repeating patterns that I see everywhere, especially in the spiritual movement, which is what prompted me to get some insight from others. I was just wondering how much others had noticed too. 

I am concerned about the spiritual movement because I came here to help with it. I can feel the pain people are feeling, I can physically see it manifesting itself everywhere I go. I talk to people all the time in my neighborhood who are not sleeping, who are suffering from debilitating physical health problems, who are concerned about mental health issues and have endless money troubles. We are here as system busters during the harvest, as the old system needs to change in order to make room for fourth density life. People have free will, but they are also gullible and being unfairly misled by people preying on them when they are the most vulnerable. You can say, oh whatever, let them screw themselves over and learn from it. But that is not how it's going to go, because I can feel the energy of this planet right now and it is struggling. I do no think people are just going to "learn a lesson" and move on. I think it could potentially break their spirit, make spirituality and growth of consciousness feel like just another manipulation in a world already plagued with enough forms of unconscious slavery that it "beggars our ability to enumerate them." I'm sure your remember that quote from the ever-so-wise Ra. 

Right now, what people need, is a break. They need love. They need honesty. They do not need to be further manipulated, even by sources that on the outside seem like they have their student's best interest at heart, when really they are just looking out for themselves and their own well being. How can we live the Law of One if we do not see all as One?

[Spiritualchaos]

New-Age is attractive because people don't need to work on the self or a lifeplan.
Just be positive - manifest positive - everything else is not relevant.
You have not to care, to learn, to think, to work, to decide.
You have not to fight with doubts, your own self or history, a complex worldview.
Everythink is focussed on the thoughts of the self and not really on the relation to others or surroundings, so it is a nice step to STS.

The dogma is: When something is bad it is your own fault, because you have manifested it.
So be as positive and passive as possible - the perfect friendly clod of loam that will be no problem to anyone, specially the matrix.

I have actually heard several of these people use that exact phrase, recently even, in their latest YouTube videos, "When something is bad it is your own fault, because you have manifested it." The video said, if you were not receiving love in the world, it was because you were not giving it out. I was like, wait, what? That is definitely not always the case, and over generalizing about that sort of thing seems dangerous. Doesn't that seem like a recipe for disaster for a vulnerable person who is still in the stages of finding forgiveness for themselves, thinking that they are doing something wrong because of how others are handling their catalysts? 

"Just be happy, you do not need to heal any of your trauma. Don't like something? It's not your problem, just feel the bliss of being and enjoy what makes you happy."

There is a real pattern on this planet of just making things another's issue to "solve" instead of looking at the issue straight on in order to heal it. No one wants to step up and take responsibility, claiming "oh it's their free will." This channeling session comes to mind when I think of this:

Q’uo
We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. We would thank you for your comments upon our attempts to serve the population of planet Earth. It is, of course, music to our ears to feel that love that you have for us and we thank you, my brother.

Yet it is also worthy to note in this regard that it does not eliminate our questions and concerns as to what that line is between witnessing to our own truth and being persuaders. For we would not be persuaders. We do not wish to pull or push people or do anything except offer hopefully helpful information. At the same time it is obvious from the nature of our information that we are biased towards the positive polarity and that we do rejoice when entities awaken.

The philosophical aspects of our work have never been entirely clear because, as we said at the beginning, the only way that we can be of utterly positive polarity is to cease attempting in any way to influence the entities whom we love so dearly and are calling to us.

Now, to respond to your query on the nature of the call. When one of your human babies awakens in the night and discovers that it is hungry, wet and alone, it cries. It calls out in the only way it knows for help. Blessedly, in almost every case, the parents come and minister to that child, feeding it, drying it, getting a new, dry diaper on it, and cuddling it until it naturally goes back to sleep, content, knowing that it is loved and that all of its needs are met.

Each of you is, spiritually speaking, an infant. And you are crying in the night. You are crying for spiritual food. You are crying to be cleansed of the grime of confusion, sorrow and suffering. And you are crying because you are alone and you do not feel loved.

As entities move through the third density, they begin to become able to address their own needs. As they awaken and become spiritual toddlers, or spiritual preschoolers, they begin to choose to feed themselves heavenly food, to cleanse themselves from spiritually degrading ideas and concepts, and to win through to the knowledge that they are not alone. Because of the intense confusion among your peoples throughout your third-density experience, for the most part entities have not matured beyond the crib. They cry out in the darkness and our hearts go out to them.

There is a great desire on our parts to reach out the hand to steady that baby, to feed that baby, to give that sweet infant soul a new start, a clean diaper, a bellyful of love, and a good rock in the cradle.

We hope that we have become more mature as those who offer help, as we have experimented with ways to answer that call. And we can certainly say that those of planet Earth have begun to become more mature, as it should be. Many are those who have moved from the cradle to preschool, to grade school, to middle school, and finally are ready to graduate third density on time, mature at last, knowing that the food of love is the food for them; knowing that they wish to turn from anything that is not truly love and light; knowing that they are not alone. For as they love, so have they been loved a hundredfold, a thousandfold, overwhelmingly.

The hard part for entities is that first waking up. And it is this effort to which we have come in response. Our love remains unblemished. How far we have fallen short of perfection in our dealings with your planetary population is unknown to us, but we are sure that there are many, many mistakes that we have made for which we humbly ask your forgiveness.

[Phoenix]

I am concerned about the spiritual movement because I came here to help with it. I can feel the pain people are feeling, I can physically see it manifesting itself everywhere I go. I talk to people all the time in my neighborhood who are not sleeping, who are suffering from debilitating physical health problems, who are concerned about mental health issues and have endless money troubles. We are here as system busters during the harvest, as the old system needs to change in order to make room for fourth density life. People have free will, but they are also gullible and being unfairly misled by people preying on them when they are the most vulnerable. You can say, oh whatever, let them screw themselves over and learn from it. But that is not how it's going to go, because I can feel the energy of this planet right now and it is struggling. I do no think people are just going to "learn a lesson" and move on. I think it could potentially break their spirit, make spirituality and growth of consciousness feel like just another manipulation in a world already plagued with enough forms of unconscious slavery that it "beggars our ability to enumerate them." I'm sure your remember that quote from the ever-so-wise Ra. 

Right now, what people need, is a break. They need love. They need honesty. They do not need to be further manipulated, even by sources that on the outside seem like they have their student's best interest at heart, when really they are just looking out for themselves and their own well being. How can we live the Law of One if we do not see all as One? 

I feel a little bad not reading some of the responses here, I read every response on some threads but there is quite a lot of substance that goes into a single thread. To read a few of these threads every word would take about an hour.


Firstly, even though I am going to write in relation to your main post the quoted text I think is beautiful and it is something that I have been thinking of a lot recently. There was a bible quote I remember about a series of kingdoms and some people think we are in the last one, the age of iron where there is "never ceasing fear", I think that describes it quite well. Even though I do not completely get behind it philosophically as I will come to, I have been noticing a large amount of suffering recently. There are plenty of statistics that back up that almost everyone is suffering at the moment I think!


Secondly, don't hold David Wilcock up as a role model. He may have been that once, but after all the trauma he has been through he is a shattered person now. Sorry to be blunt. I am not what I consider to be a "shattered person" but I still feel David reflects something quite poignant back to me. There is a bit of life force I have lost in all this chaos.


My take on this actually goes in a different direction. There is something in game theory called 'The Free Rider problem'. Where if too much is taken out of a communal resource it can no longer exist.


You see it with a lot of things. A dream interpretation forum, an astrology forum. When I was on the human design chart reddit it was chronic. To have a discussion on human design, I think, to have a discussion on more than the basics it would have to bar the discussion of the absolute basics i.e. 'Chart reading'. So there was a rule that goes up on the forum that any question that is 'can you read my chart' will be taken down and the people could repost in a thread dedicated to that.


I did that, I put in a lot of time and I just loved the chart so much I loved talking about it so I basically posted on any chart that came into that thread.


Now in any basic friendship, relationship, or interaction I think there would be an expectation of some sort of trad. Rather like you posting here. Even though perhaps you could shrug it off if people did not take much interest in this post. If it happened consistently you may end up feeling you were being snubbed by this group. Not getting anything back, and therefore might feel that you had been "forced to move on". So there is an energy exchange even in service. Perhaps in some cases when the person has done well a lot can be given for free, but there is a dependence on some energy coming back.


Well, on the human design chart reddit, I did not get anything back. I did a few posts for people and did not even get a 'like' back. Several paragraphs for each, and I just started thinking "You know what, I'm not feeling this" and I left. I only came back briefly to that subreddit and I didn't go back on the chart reading thread.


But even further than that, I mentioned that the subreddit didn't like people asking for readings. But there was a way they sometimes let them through which was if the person kind of didn't directly say it. They just said something like I am confused about this part of my chart or something. Then they would be let through and when people caught onto that they all did it. Page after page was 'Oh yay, I got this chart and I don't know what it means'.


But here's the rub. The people on this subreddit were not without resources. Pretty much all the human design information has now filtered out onto the internet. You can go on youtube and start with your type and a basic explanation of the centres and you will begin to understand the chart yourself. But people don't want to do that do you know why? Well I don't I have never resorted to whining and asking others to give their personal energy to explain things like that. They remind me of that clip where Homer Simpson sees a guy on a ventilator and gets angry that he is using his own lungs to breathe, when he could have a machine do it for him. 


This is the problem living in the real world and offering services. The 'Free rider' problem. Although I think the term more easily recognised is 'freeloader'. If you give anything or have low prices or whatever it is people will take as much as they can.


And also let's take another look at those people? All those people that do that kind of thing. Are they completely innocent of the troubles they now face? In some cases it often seems so but when people do crappy things in their past do they tell you? How many of them are just brainless vampires like the people posting on that subreddit? How many of them have lied to trap someone in a bad relationship? Or chronically neglected their children due to alcohol, or a job they didn't need to be spending all their time at? How many of them will even make the barest of compromises and will reach out to the spirits for help like Quo advises? I have known so many proud atheists will really severe mental disorders.


So that's why the new age community is as it is. Because the service has to be conducted under rules, and those rules in this case are "trade".


Another angle is that perhaps the ones that can't monetise it = Don't monetise it. I love the human design chart. But I don't get the feeling that being a human design reader is what my chart advises! The human design chart, in my belief, is a system that is so profound, that no one and especially not it's founder - first channeler, really understood it. It is beyond our scope and a lot of the basic teaching that gets people through the door is only very basically correct. So does someone that really believes in the human design always go and be a reader and charge for their services? And of those who decide not to, who have a different view and would explain it to others if given the chance maybe, for free, but don't have the chance to. What benefit is it to them to do human design chart reading if they get more money in an office job?


So that's what I think. The current new age movement is a manifestation on living on a messed up planet. And the money, and narcissism aspect are the symptom and not the cause!

[tadeus]

I have actually heard several of these people use that exact phrase, recently even, in their latest YouTube videos, "When something is bad it is your own fault, because you have manifested it." The video said, if you were not receiving love in the world, it was because you were not giving it out. I was like, wait, what? That is definitely not always the case, and over generalizing about that sort of thing seems dangerous. Doesn't that seem like a recipe for disaster for a vulnerable person who is still in the stages of finding forgiveness for themselves, thinking that they are doing something wrong because of how others are handling their catalysts? 

"Just be happy, you do not need to heal any of your trauma. Don't like something? It's not your problem, just feel the bliss of being and enjoy what makes you happy."

There is a real pattern on this planet of just making things another's issue to "solve" instead of looking at the issue straight on in order to heal it. No one wants to step up and take responsibility, claiming "oh it's their free will." This channeling session comes to mind when I think of this:

New Age is a trap to lure seeking people into a spiritual dead end with the aim to neutralize them.

This is achieved in an ingenious way, because this Dead End is offered in very many different flavors, involving every form of perceptiveness and individual interests.
The people were programmed to assimilate knowledge (in military style) only since beginning of the school and not to acquire it themselves, and the natural laziness of the people is exploited additionally.
Some poeple don't read any text any more, they need talking heads in videos - this can be seen as a final state in learning.

Q’uo

As entities move through the third density, they begin to become able to address their own needs. As they awaken and become spiritual toddlers, or spiritual preschoolers, they begin to choose to feed themselves heavenly food, to cleanse themselves from spiritually degrading ideas and concepts, and to win through to the knowledge that they are not alone. Because of the intense confusion among your peoples throughout your third-density experience, for the most part entities have not matured beyond the crib. They cry out in the darkness and our hearts go out to them.

There is a great desire on our parts to reach out the hand to steady that baby, to feed that baby, to give that sweet infant soul a new start, a clean diaper, a bellyful of love, and a good rock in the cradle.

We hope that we have become more mature as those who offer help, as we have experimented with ways to answer that call. And we can certainly say that those of planet Earth have begun to become more mature, as it should be. Many are those who have moved from the cradle to preschool, to grade school, to middle school, and finally are ready to graduate third density on time, mature at last, knowing that the food of love is the food for them; knowing that they wish to turn from anything that is not truly love and light; knowing that they are not alone. For as they love, so have they been loved a hundredfold, a thousandfold, overwhelmingly.

The hard part for entities is that first waking up. And it is this effort to which we have come in response. Our love remains unblemished. How far we have fallen short of perfection in our dealings with your planetary population is unknown to us, but we are sure that there are many, many mistakes that we have made for which we humbly ask your forgiveness.

Maybe New-Age is a better way for some individuals then nothing to graduate to the next density, but the society and humanity as a whole will continue to be effectively impeded in their spiritual progress.

[Spiritualchaos]

New Age is a trap to lure seeking people into a spiritual dead end with the aim to neutralize them.

This is achieved in an ingenious way, because this Dead End is offered in very many different flavors, involving every form of perceptiveness and individual interests.
The people were programmed to assimilate knowledge (in military style) only since beginning of the school and not to acquire it themselves, and the natural laziness of the people is exploited additionally.
Some poeple don't read any text any more, they need talking heads in videos - this can be seen as a final state in learning.

Maybe New-Age is a better way for some individuals then nothing to graduate to the next density, but the society and humanity as a whole will continue to be effectively impeded in their spiritual progress.

I can see this clearly, as when I first started seeking, I found I was in a place where I was overly loving and accepting to the point where I was a little too eager to learn, and in turn was open to every piece of spiritual advice that was presented to me in a loving manner. It always felt intuitively strange, but I would ignore it and see the Creator in that person instead. It turns out they are still playing a character, a role in this illusion, and they have their own conditioning, biases, and catalysts to explore, that may be getting in the way of them presenting information in a way that is therapeutic instead of parasitic. I think I experienced this myself in order to be able to see it more clearly out in the world now. And it is so crystal clear. 

As a recent example, one of these spiritual YouTubers sent me an email saying “oh sign up for this because there is going to be all these amazing speakers and topics covered, myself included.” I signed up out of curiosity, and within the course of one morning, I got 3 emails, all promoting anti-aging products. This person has gotten lost in the Matrix, which is ironic as it is their self-proclaimed favourite movie. The universe is full of irony like that, as I feel our true selves have a good sense of humour at times, but it’s too bad most are too asleep to appreciate the details we put into our lives like that, but that is a whole other topic to cover at a later date. 

This is where I feel the balance of love and wisdom really comes in to play. Is it loving to scam people into buying your classes when you know they can learn all they need to know at their own pace, in an organic way, without someone telling them how? Even if it does help some people who may be have difficulties finding direction, eventually those people will realize that this self-proclaimed guru no longer has anything real or useful to say, and will intuitively move on. But, I feel like the ones who are fragile and in a new place of seeking need to be handled with care until they are strong enough to know the difference between useful and unhelpful information, what is expansion vs what is constricting. The ultimate goal is not to be happy at the expense of everything else. That is not loving either, unless you are going the service to self route. I feel like teaching people spiritual principles, even if those principles are healing and genuinely therapeutic, are not going to gain any positive polarity if their motives are not pure. Fame, power, and enough money to have a fancy lifestyle should not be your motivation for helping. I feel like all the work you do helping would be cancelled out by the egoic intentions behind those actions. 

What can even be done in these situations? Do we sit there and watch more peoples energies get sucked dry until they are too tired to care anymore, or is there a way to actually help this situation become something better? Or is it too late? These people seem like an invasive species, this new age movement, and its slowly taking over everything and smothering the life from it. This is not how people were meant to evolve, staring at TV screens with some guy telling them how to change. It was through life we are going to have our most awakening and growth, by learning to live through our own hearts.

[tadeus]

This person has gotten lost in the Matrix, which is ironic as it is their self-proclaimed favourite movie. The universe is full of irony like that, as I feel our true selves have a good sense of humour at times, but it’s too bad most are too asleep to appreciate the details we put into our lives like that, but that is a whole other topic to cover at a later date. 

The tragic thing is that such people are convinced to have escaped from the matrix, but it is only a transformation from one matrix into another.

This is where I feel the balance of love and wisdom really comes in to play. Is it loving to scam people into buying your classes when you know they can learn all they need to know at their own pace, in an organic way, without someone telling them how?

Even if it does help some people who may be have difficulties finding direction, eventually those people will realize that this self-proclaimed guru no longer has anything real or useful to say, and will intuitively move on. But, I feel like the ones who are fragile and in a new place of seeking need to be handled with care until they are strong enough to know the difference between useful and unhelpful information, what is expansion vs what is constricting.

Again i must think at the story of Siddhartha: A Poem of India by Hermann Hesse - it is describing this situation in a nice way.

"To know the difference between useful and unhelpful information" is hard work of learning and processing of all the informations.
But that's what the people not want - they want a teacher that is prompting the result, while they are sitting there and drinking a cup of coffee in a group.
Just following the programmed pattern of school - but the main things have to be digged out individually in hard work.

So it was a smart move to drive people out of self-taught learning.

The ultimate goal is not to be happy at the expense of everything else. That is not loving either, unless you are going the service to self route. I feel like teaching people spiritual principles, even if those principles are healing and genuinely therapeutic, are not going to gain any positive polarity if their motives are not pure. Fame, power, and enough money to have a fancy lifestyle should not be your motivation for helping. I feel like all the work you do helping would be cancelled out by the egoic intentions behind those actions.

What can even be done in these situations? Do we sit there and watch more peoples energies get sucked dry until they are too tired to care anymore, or is there a way to actually help this situation become something better? Or is it too late? These people seem like an invasive species, this new age movement, and its slowly taking over everything and smothering the life from it. This is not how people were meant to evolve, staring at TV screens with some guy telling them how to change. It was through life we are going to have our most awakening and growth, by learning to live through our own hearts.

I could observe several times that people tried to teach selflessly, but at some point they always got frustrated by the lazy people who just sit there laughing and drinking coffee and want just to be entertained, but telling they want to learn something.
Attend this week your seminar and the next week another with maybe the opposite content, telling that you have spoken nonsense without any thought on the content.

So it is not surprising that at some point a teacher will give up and will concentrate on the livelihood and the business.

The staged New-Age-movement is simply a briliant plan and is just a continuation of the preparatory programming before it.

[Spiritualchaos]

The tragic thing is that such people are convinced to have escaped from the matrix, but it is only a transformation from one matrix into another.

This is troublesome to me. I feel like we are at a transitional place where it is almost impossible for anyone to discern what is useful or helpful information from a strictly logical perspective. Everyone’s journey is so personal, that I believe only through the heart and looking inward, is the only way you can truly understand what you need to know, and what is true. And even then, it’s a matter of faith in trusting what your heart is telling you. People need to connect to their hearts, as your heart always knows what is good information and what is not. If you can learn to develop the skills of listening to your heart and using your logical mind to balance those thoughts in a more grounded way, it should be easier to find out what you need to find. But people are being flooded with information and are disconnected to their hearts in a way that makes it impossible for them to use that discernment in order to spiritually evolve. There is no way for them to sort it out with their minds, as all their minds want to do is collect endless information until that information starts to serious contradict itself in a very noticeable way, thus making the whole process even more confusing.

Again i must think at the story of Siddhartha: A Poem of India by Hermann Hesse - it is describing this situation in a nice way.

"To know the difference between useful and unhelpful information" is hard work of learning and processing of all the informations.
But that's what the people not want - they want a teacher that is prompting the result, while they are sitting there and drinking a cup of coffee in a group.
Just following the programmed pattern of school - but the main things have to be digged out individually in hard work.

So it was a smart move to drive people out of self-taught learning.

Smart move on who’s behalf? I’m not sure if I agree with this statement, but maybe I just am unclear as to what you are trying to say here. People want to sit and groups and have the experience, but are they taking those experiences out in the real world with them, are they truly absorbing the information and integrating it into their lives? Is anyone teaching others on how that looks from a feminine/feeling perspective, or is everyone just trying to integrate more with their minds, and wonder why they are so confused as to why they are not feeling any better. They are only being taught one side of the equation, no one is giving real life examples for these teachings that are actually useful and relatable. It’s one thing to be taught concepts logically but it’s a whole other story on figuring out how to integrate them into your life efficiently. This society is far too logical as it is, like they are trying to learn their way to enlightenment, bypassing completely the heart chakra, and wondering why they are not getting any better. That sounds like service to self teachings coming out of service to others teachers for service to others students. It does not vibe with them because they only have one side of it, they are balancing wisdom but not love. 

I could observe several times that people tried to teach selflessly, but at some point they always got frustrated by the lazy people who just sit there laughing and drinking coffee and want just to be entertained, but telling they want to learn something.
Attend this week your seminar and the next week another with maybe the opposite content, telling that you have spoken nonsense without any thought on the content.

So it is not surprising that at some point a teacher will give up and will concentrate on the livelihood and the business.

The staged New-Age-movement is simply a briliant plan and is just a continuation of the preparatory programming before it.

I can see this in my own personal spiritual connection to one of these teachers. They started off with such noble intentions it feels like. It was about the information, and getting it out there in the most understanding way possible. They were replying to people’s comments with love and compassion, addressing them by their names, trying to relate to them, etc. Then they got popular and their teachings as a whole became distorted. They started contradicting themselves from one episode to the next, they are becoming visibly annoyed by the people they do interviews with, and they created their own offshoot of spirituality that feels like trying to graph logical principles onto someone’s heart, instead of letting them integrate them in a more organic way. Then I noticed their very few personal stories are repetitive, like they had one experience that drew them in to be a teacher, yet have no new stories to offer in 5 years? That is strange to me, because it becomes obvious that they do not even practice the things they teach and are not really progressing themselves, even though they have convinced themselves fully from all this “information” that they are correct, and in turn, use their own intelligence against themselves. From a tiny bit of research, I uncovered that this person has been exaggerating all their experiences to make themselves look more humble to the world, literally leaving clues all over the internet to prove otherwise. I wanted to understand what was happening to them out of concern, so I did a little digging as I knew something was wrong because I could feel it when I watched their videos. Seeing a wanderer who teaches spirituality for a living, getting that lost in the Matrix is a little terrifying, especially considering he should know better, but the world we have put ourselves in is a very dangerous one. It is impossible to tell what people’s motivations are sometimes. Even when you think you have it figured out, it turns out you are wrong. It takes a very long time to develop this ability to discern what is good and what isn’t, and using your mind alone will get you nowhere. Think about all the stories of cultures that annihilated themselves by trying to use logical knowledge to accelerate spiritual growth… Mars… Maldek… Atlantis. And many others. It’s not a good idea.

[unity100]

The reason why I ask this, is that I have noticed a huge influx of people hopping on the “new age” train, and every single one of them is putting their content behind some sort of a paywall

It was never any different?

Since mid-1960s, spiritual literature has been crowded by those who are in it to make money. Especially in the US. This is also the reason for the overabundance of content that talks about an 'ascension' or 'doomsday' with end of the world scenarios because this kind of content sells very well in the US. Aliens etc as well.

The moment you go out of the sphere of more-meticulous material like Ra, late-19th / early 20th century spiritual literature, you end up facing a horde of material that is mainly there to make money.

[tadeus]

This is troublesome to me. I feel like we are at a transitional place where it is almost impossible for anyone to discern what is useful or helpful information from a strictly logical perspective. Everyone’s journey is so personal, that I believe only through the heart and looking inward, is the only way you can truly understand what you need to know, and what is true. And even then, it’s a matter of faith in trusting what your heart is telling you. People need to connect to their hearts, as your heart always knows what is good information and what is not. If you can learn to develop the skills of listening to your heart and using your logical mind to balance those thoughts in a more grounded way, it should be easier to find out what you need to find. But people are being flooded with information and are disconnected to their hearts in a way that makes it impossible for them to use that discernment in order to spiritually evolve. There is no way for them to sort it out with their minds, as all their minds want to do is collect endless information until that information starts to serious contradict itself in a very noticeable way, thus making the whole process even more confusing.

Yes and No.
It is correct that the solution is to hear what your heart is telling.
But it is possible not to drown in informations. This is only a phase in the learning and awekening.
From my experience it is like a big crystal with man facets.
You must learn a lot to get a minimum of facets of knowledge and perspectives - in this process you are feeling drowning in informations.
But after a certain point it is easier and easier to differ what is right, what is wrong, what fits together, what makes no sense.
After this phase and training you need quite less time to distinguish and sort out informations that are wrong or unusable.
At this point it is fun to learn und you are curious to get more facets of knowledge and angles of view.

Smart move on who’s behalf?

Are they truly absorbing the information and integrating it into their lives?

Is anyone teaching others on how that looks from a feminine/feeling perspective?

It is a smart move of the system / deep state.

I would say only less then 10% are really absorbing and integrating new knowledge into their lives.

It's a good question of the feminine/feeling perspective.
In fact there are mostly masculine teachers/guru's out there.

Then I noticed their very few personal stories are repetitive, like they had one experience that drew them in to be a teacher, yet have no new stories to offer in 5 years?

Seeing a wanderer who teaches spirituality for a living, getting that lost in the Matrix is a little terrifying, especially considering he should know better, but the world we have put ourselves in is a very dangerous one. It is impossible to tell what people’s motivations are sometimes.

With the knowledge that most of the people want more entertainment then learning, why should a teacher bring new stories?
There are mostly coming new people who want's this sort of entertainment. At least it is always the same what people don't know or don't want to accept.

The motivations are different, but often it is the boosting of the Ego, the need to be in the spotlight.

The situation is very complex. At least there are two big emphases needed, to learn to understand the matrix and to evolve spirituality.

[Spiritualchaos]

But it is possible not to drown in informations. This is only a phase in the learning and awekening.
From my experience it is like a big crystal with man facets.
You must learn a lot to get a minimum of facets of knowledge and perspectives - in this process you are feeling drowning in informations.
But after a certain point it is easier and easier to differ what is right, what is wrong, what fits together, what makes no sense.
After this phase and training you need quite less time to distinguish and sort out informations that are wrong or unusable.
At this point it is fun to learn und you are curious to get more facets of knowledge and angles of view.

I would have to politely disagree on aspects of this one. I do believe it is possible to drown in information, because I have witnessed it happening to so many people. I’ve been talking with a lot of people who follow the YouTube spiritual movement, and the majority of them are either, 1) blindly accepting everything the person is telling them without question and with blind devotion, which in turn creates a cult-like following for this person, 2) have no idea what is going on and are very lost on the concepts, ask questions about it and get no response from the channel creator, or 3) completely think it’s rubbish and are not afraid to say so, without any openness to know more beyond their own perceived beliefs. Only a very small majority of the people question what the teacher is saying, because they feel the knowledge being shared is not accurate, confusing, hypocritical, or just nonsensical. The teachers who are stuffing themselves full of knowledge themselves are getting concepts mixed up, as all sorts of philosophies run on very different principals, and do not go together, yet they are trying to make them go together like shoving a puzzle pieces that does not belong into that particular puzzle. If you can develop that intuitiveness regarding written works, and you can get a feeling about them right away, you do not need anything other than your heart to tell you so. All I have to do is read a book for a little and instantly know whether or not I want to continue with it. I know this is not a skill everyone has developed yet, but I know it can be done with some practice. I know that you have to have some sort of basis to grasp the general concepts, and that is where information is very useful. And this is definitely where I do believe these people are very helpful in teaching these things. I just believe more developed seeking needs to take place within one’s own heart beyond that.

It is a smart move of the system / deep state.

I would say only less then 10% are really absorbing and integrating new knowledge into their lives.

It's a good question of the feminine/feeling perspective.
In fact there are mostly masculine teachers/guru's out there.

I believe it’s because the masculine approach to learning is the slow approach, it takes a dedication and commitment that most people cannot or will not make time for. The feminine way is way more intense, by burning the shadows right out of you, but it requires a certain level of faith, and understanding of what that process may look like, and some people are not emotionally ready for that sort of intensity. But if you were to balance that intensity of the feminine healing with the learning of the masculine, I guarantee more than 10% of people would be able to integrate that into their lives more successfully. I mean that is what the sixth density is all about, balancing love and wisdom. I know that this is the third density, but sixth density learning is just a further refinement of what we start learning in the lower densities, so why not start now?

With the knowledge that most of the people want more entertainment then learning, why should a teacher bring new stories?
There are mostly coming new people who want's this sort of entertainment. At least it is always the same what people don't know or don't want to accept.

The motivations are different, but often it is the boosting of the Ego, the need to be in the spotlight.

The situation is very complex. At least there are two big emphases needed, to learn to understand the matrix and to evolve spirituality.

Once again, failing to share personal stories means they either do not have any to share, or they are completely shut off the concept of any feminine healing approaches and do not even know how to relate what they are experiencing to their own lives, or they just do not want to, which is very strange. From studying the comments on videos for months, I have noticed that people want to know personal stories from the people who are sharing this information, because it is through those stories that they can relate to that person and see how these teachings are affecting their own lives. This can be the greatest motivation for those who do not know what these practices look like in day to day life. We are shifting into fourth density, which is when group learning becomes the dominant way to learn, as well as the forming of a social memory complex, which can only be created when people desire to share everyone with one another to the point where they are completely honest and transparent with one another about all aspects of their lives. I’m not saying these teachers need to do that, but why would they not want to? Ego, money, and blaming it on “how society has always been” are just excuses that people do not want to get around because of the effort they will require to get over. As an example, I have never focused on money as important, and I’ve always had everything I’ve ever needed my whole life. The only time this was not the case, is when I was with a partner who was obsessed with money, which in turn attracted catalysts which challenged that concept in that partner. The universe gives you exactly what you need. The system needs to change and making excuses just keeps it in the pit of indifference and fourth density takes longer and longer to achieve.

[tadeus]

I would have to politely disagree on aspects of this one. I do believe it is possible to drown in information, because I have witnessed it happening to so many people.

1) blindly accepting everything the person is telling them without question and with blind devotion, which in turn creates a cult-like following for this person,
2) have no idea what is going on and are very lost on the concepts, ask questions about it and get no response from the channel creator, or
3) completely think it’s rubbish and are not afraid to say so, without any openness to know more beyond their own perceived beliefs.

Only a very small majority of the people question what the teacher is saying, because they feel the knowledge being shared is not accurate, confusing, hypocritical, or just nonsensical.

All I have to do is read a book for a little and instantly know whether or not I want to continue with it. I know this is not a skill everyone has developed yet, but I know it can be done with some practice.

Your politely disagree is asscepted.
What you describe is true - i did want to describe that this is not necessarily the case.
But at this moment i can't say what must be done to get the curve.
I would not say that it is a problem that teachers are mixing up concepts, because nobody can know everything and teaching/learning is an endless process.
Your points 1) and 2) are describing the main problem.

The described very small majority is the part i mean with less then 10%.
But i see no chance to increase this part, because the school system has perfectly worked.
Looking back i notice that (the right) study at a university has ensured learning to think systematically - independent of the learned stuff.

What you write about knowing instantly if some literature is helpful, is what i meant to learn to differ.

I believe it’s because the masculine approach to learning is the slow approach, it takes a dedication and commitment that most people cannot or will not make time for. The feminine way is way more intense, by burning the shadows right out of you, but it requires a certain level of faith, and understanding of what that process may look like, and some people are not emotionally ready for that sort of intensity.
But if you were to balance that intensity of the feminine healing with the learning of the masculine, I guarantee more than 10% of people would be able to integrate that into their lives more successfully. I mean that is what the sixth density is all about, balancing love and wisdom. I know that this is the third density, but sixth density learning is just a further refinement of what we start learning in the lower densities, so why not start now?

This is a very good explanation, that also explains why, for example, there are so few women in technical studies.
Do you see a concrete way to "balance that intensity of the feminine healing with the learning of the masculine" ?
That really sounds for an solution.

I would say the main problem is, that most of the people are not aware of the importance of learning in order to develop themselves.
That's the reason why in this world only the kneed-to-know basis is implemented, so that everybody is only able to work as a perfect biological robot.

Once again, failing to share personal stories means they either do not have any to share, or they are completely shut off the concept of any feminine healing approaches and do not even know how to relate what they are experiencing to their own lives, or they just do not want to, which is very strange.
From studying the comments on videos for months, I have noticed that people want to know personal stories from the people who are sharing this information, because it is through those stories that they can relate to that person and see how these teachings are affecting their own lives. This can be the greatest motivation for those who do not know what these practices look like in day to day life.

We are shifting into fourth density, which is when group learning becomes the dominant way to learn, as well as the forming of a social memory complex, which can only be created when people desire to share everyone with one another to the point where they are completely honest and transparent with one another about all aspects of their lives.
I’m not saying these teachers need to do that, but why would they not want to? Ego, money, and blaming it on “how society has always been” are just excuses that people do not want to get around because of the effort they will require to get over.

In the first sentence, are you referring only to spiritual learning, or to learning in general?

The people want to hear "personal stories", because the stuff teached is outside the framework of school knowledge and science and therefore hardly verifiable.

Indeed "group learning becomes the dominant way to learn, as well as the forming of a social memory complex" is very important, as well to escape the matrix. But this needs a complete new way of learning.
The complete world is teaching in the "military class style" where you have to sit still, you have to speak only when you are allowed to speak and to share knowledge, everything takes place in a rigid time grid and everything you do is somehow rated.
In the (wedic) books of Anastasia is described a complete other way of "school" and learning.

[meadow-foreigner]

Right now, what people need, is a break. They need love. They need honesty. They do not need to be further manipulated, even by sources that on the outside seem like they have their student's best interest at heart, when really they are just looking out for themselves and their own well being. How can we live the Law of One if we do not see all as One?

Notwithstanding the seeming rhetorical question:

Maybe what people need is actual practice, and not more theories.

To disregard the gimmicks and to work on yourself has more value than a course price tag or anything commercial related to it, regardless the oftentimes done rationalizations about it.

[tadeus]

Notwithstanding the seeming rhetorical question:

Maybe what people need is actual practice, and not more theories.

To disregard the gimmicks and to work on yourself has more value than a course price tag or anything commercial related to it, regardless the oftentimes done rationalizations about it.

People are getting more and more caught up in a struggle for existence, so in addition to the disinformation and lack of knowledge, there is simply no time left over for anything else.

[zedro]

Right now, what people need, is a break. They need love. They need honesty. They do not need to be further manipulated, even by sources that on the outside seem like they have their student's best interest at heart, when really they are just looking out for themselves and their own well being. How can we live the Law of One if we do not see all as One?

Notwithstanding the seeming rhetorical question:

Maybe what people need is actual practice, and not more theories.

To disregard the gimmicks and to work on yourself has more value than a course price tag or anything commercial related to it, regardless the oftentimes done rationalizations about it.

This is why I'm always surprised that people don't understand shadow work and dismiss it as negative navel gazing, instead of regarding it as the most important healing tool one has access to. Superficial healing through false positivity will eventually cause a crash and burn.

[tadeus]

You should always live and work your life in the light and not in the shadow.

Sorry - I could not resist the joke.

[kilaya]

Nice thread! So many interesting points that are certainly complex but important to wade through. My own thoughts on the issue go back to the teachings of the Buddha and Socrates: any degree of greed, lust, or anger in a "teacher," no matter how well-meaning he or she is, creates a difficulty in that person's ability to think through what they're doing and whether it's truly effective for the betterment of themselves or others. There are way too many examples of very elevated "teachers" in recent and distant history whose hidden inner anger, lust or greed led them to act in unbeneficial, unloving ways, which they were the last to acknowledge as so. In all cases they all harmed themselves most, in choosing to save others publicly before they had full control of their more negative thoughts and tendencies.

This is very very difficult to assess in a spiritual teacher without spending a lot of time closely observing them. Mostly because they're usually quite charming and totally convinced of their selfless, purely positive motives to help others. When I was searching for genuine teachers I would get turned off quickly by being sold things or charged more than modest and practical fees for teachings/seminars, etc. Ironically, Socrates criticized the most famous spiritual teachers of his day for charging for their service. In Plato's Protagoras, the famous teacher Protagoras gives a lengthy explanation of why he is justified charging large sums of money to become his student. This was in 500BC Greece! Socrates wasn't having any of it. He said that if Protagoras was actually capable of making people into better people in the way he claimed he wouldn't need to charge any money because his students would voluntarily give him money after becoming better people because of him. This makes a lot of sense to me.

[Spiritualchaos]

Nice thread! So many interesting points that are certainly complex but important to wade through. My own thoughts on the issue go back to the teachings of the Buddha and Socrates: any degree of greed, lust, or anger in a "teacher," no matter how well-meaning he or she is, creates a difficulty in that person's ability to think through what they're doing and whether it's truly effective for the betterment of themselves or others. There are way too many examples of very elevated "teachers" in recent and distant history whose hidden inner anger, lust or greed led them to act in unbeneficial, unloving ways, which they were the last to acknowledge as so. In all cases they all harmed themselves most, in choosing to save others publicly before they had full control of their more negative thoughts and tendencies.

This is very very difficult to assess in a spiritual teacher without spending a lot of time closely observing them. Mostly because they're usually quite charming and totally convinced of their selfless, purely positive motives to help others. When I was searching for genuine teachers I would get turned off quickly by being sold things or charged more than modest and practical fees for teachings/seminars, etc. Ironically, Socrates criticized the most famous spiritual teachers of his day for charging for their service. In Plato's Protagoras, the famous teacher Protagoras gives a lengthy explanation of why he is justified charging large sums of money to become his student. This was in 500BC Greece! Socrates wasn't having any of it. He said that if Protagoras was actually capable of making people into better people in the way he claimed he wouldn't need to charge any money because his students would voluntarily give him money after becoming better people because of him. This makes a lot of sense to me.

  
I agree with this completely. You can see examples of it all over the internet, people with good motives getting corrupted because they are unwilling to put themselves under the same microscope they are asking others to willingly do. If you are not willing to look at yourself with 100% honestly, then how can you ethically expect your students to do the same? There are so many corrupt spiritual teachers who become cult leaders and this is why I think it’s absolutely imperative to be completely transparent in your teachings. 

I have only watched a couple spiritual teachers, and only one with great intensity, and that is because of my personal connection to them, and I’ve been watching them get swept up in the adoration, the constant compliments, never being challenged by anyone, hardly anyone every doubting anything they say… this teacher even made a pretty tasteless joke at Carla, Don and Jim’s expense, and the Law of One is the basis of their whole school of thought. Because he laughed at it, all of his commenters were also laughing. I was like… wait… no one thought that was rude? No one is going to call him out on being rude?

This is why I think it was tasteless… I posted a reference to it in the comments on that particular video and it “mysteriously” got deleted. The Death of Don Elkins .

How does one get so detached from their own teachings? I heard in an interview of him saying he was on his 9th read through of the Law of One books. 9 read throughs and you still haven’t gotten the concept of how important being loving is? The way our society is set up, is designed to manipulate even those with pure motives, to the point where they are just as corrupted as a politician if they aren’t taking a good hard look at themselves as often as they are asking their students to do so.

[Spiritualchaos]

This is why I'm always surprised that people don't understand shadow work and dismiss it as negative navel gazing, instead of regarding it as the most important healing tool one has access to. Superficial healing through false positivity will eventually cause a crash and burn.

Yes that is exactly what I am trying to say through encouraging the sharing of experiences. How does one know what it looks like in order to use these practices in real life? Maybe they don’t share stories because they don’t have any? Either or, they are giving a bunch of spiritual toddlers tools and allowing them to run around with them on the playground without supervision, which is a very dangerous practice to encourage. 

Shadow work indeed. You cannot learn your way into healing or enlightenment. You cannot go, “well all is one, we are all the Creator, so I’m going to focus on my bliss at the expense of all other feelings, including the ones I need to heal within myself.” Never a good idea, as they will always come back, and with more and more intensity.

[Spiritualchaos]

In the first sentence, are you referring only to spiritual learning, or to learning in general?

Indeed "group learning becomes the dominant way to learn, as well as the forming of a social memory complex" is very important, as well to escape the matrix. But this needs a complete new way of learning.
The complete world is teaching in the "military class style" where you have to sit still, you have to speak only when you are allowed to speak and to share knowledge, everything takes place in a rigid time grid and everything you do is somehow rated.
In the (wedic) books of Anastasia is described a complete other way of "school" and learning.

I think all spiritual learning is easier when it is done with other-selves. If you wanted to learn all by yourself, you’d go the service to self route wouldn’t you? The service to self polarity spends the majority of the fifth density alone, and that is a very long time to be learning on your own. Fourth density positive is all about coming together for form a social memory complex. I’ve seen what isolation does to people in third density, as they have no one to ever challenge their opinions or to keep them grounded, as they tend to fly off the deep end on their ideas when they have no practical way to see them in a larger perspective, or have anyone to ever challenge their point of view, or offer a different one.

Are you talking about The Ringing Cedars of Russia series by Vladimir Megre? Those books found me about 7 years ago at a thrift store and changed deeply my perspective on teaching. The Vedic culture that Anastasia is a part of is very much in alignment with a fourth density society I believe.

[zedro]

This is why I'm always surprised that people don't understand shadow work and dismiss it as negative navel gazing, instead of regarding it as the most important healing tool one has access to. Superficial healing through false positivity will eventually cause a crash and burn.

Yes that is exactly what I am trying to say through encouraging the sharing of experiences. How does one know what it looks like in order to use these practices in real life? Maybe they don’t share stories because they don’t have any? Either or, they are giving a bunch of spiritual toddlers tools and allowing them to run around with them on the playground without supervision, which is a very dangerous practice to encourage. 

Shadow work indeed. You cannot learn your way into healing or enlightenment. You cannot go, “well all is one, we are all the Creator, so I’m going to focus on my bliss at the expense of all other feelings, including the ones I need to heal within myself.” Never a good idea, as they will always come back, and with more and more intensity.

Two thoughts come to mind. First, the complexity and nuance of spiritual experience can be very difficult to share or communicate, I find myself sometimes unable to summarize my experiences in a truly complete and thought out way, or at least in a way that would would tangible or teachable. But this goes into the 2nd thought, it is difficult to do so when one is still engaged in their own seeking/learning, and if one tries to pivot too hard into being the teacher, it may impede their own seeking as they start to look outward. Perhaps this is what you are observing.

Third thought from the above: perhaps calling them teachers or gurus is not accurate or appropriate, as I believe the main spiritual driver at this juncture is to be a messenger for awakening, and perhaps give a little orientation material and send people on their way. In other words, why put so much stock in these 'teachers'? They have probably already fulfilled their role with you awhile ago, although there is always more to learn from the meta-analysis you are pursuing now. And if the bother is worrying how they can mislead others, well that is part of everyone's path, to learn discernment.

[Spiritualchaos]

Two thoughts come to mind. First, the complexity and nuance of spiritual experience can be very difficult to share or communicate, I find myself sometimes unable to summarize my experiences in a truly complete and thought out way, or at least in a way that would would tangible or teachable. But this goes into the 2nd thought, it is difficult to do so when one is still engaged in their own seeking/learning, and if one tries to pivot too hard into being the teacher, it may impede their own seeking as they start to look outward. Perhaps this is what you are observing.

Third thought from the above: perhaps calling them teachers or gurus is not accurate or appropriate, as I believe the main spiritual driver at this juncture is to be a messenger for awakening, and perhaps give a little orientation material and send people on their way. In other words, why put so much stock in these 'teachers'? They have probably already fulfilled their role with you awhile ago, although there is always more to learn from the meta-analysis you are pursuing now. And if the bother is worrying how they can mislead others, well that is part of everyone's path, to learn discernment.

I am observing teachers who are relying too heavily on logical teachings and are not coming to a nice masculine/feminine, or love/light balance instead, basically giving people the wisdom to learn but not that emotions to properly handle it. Teaching only logically is why our traditional education system is so f***** up.

Yes I am aware it can be difficult and there can be a bit of an art to doing it effectively, but I do believe it is possible, but you have to engage with the emotional/feminine principles of experience in order to share. You really have to tap into a deep place in your heart in order to find the right way to explain, but until we have telepathy, words are (annoyingly) all we have. We can try our best, because it's a lot better than not trying at all. In order to form a social memory complex, we need to be comfortable being completely transparent with those around us, and it has to start somewhere.

They call themselves teachers or gurus. *Insert eye-roll here* This is part of the problem, they have over-glorified their own role by giving themselves these titles.

Some have teacher-like qualities, but they are just regular people who believe they have some understanding that could be shared with others. But to be fair, what they are teaching is pretty much what anyone can learn with a little time and some dedication.

All I am feeling is love and compassion for the ones who aren't in the place to be able to discern better yet, and I think these "teacher/guru's" have a responsibility to not be misleading. I personally have not learned anything new from these people in a very, very long time, as my concern is for those who are not spiritually adept at this time and may be easily misled because this is all so very new for them.

Also seeing it happen to someone I know very deeply is hard to watch, regardless of the purpose he chose this path for this particular incarnation. Someone who came here to spread the love and the light is getting caught up in the web of spiritual manipulation that is also happening to so many seekers who are calling for help at this time. Watching that happen to someone you love is frustrating to watch and even more heartbreaking to see them disconnect themselves further from those who are relying on them for spiritual growth.

Why is it the default of this planet to just let people fall, when you can at least point out the obstacles in their way to help them see the path better? If they need to trip and fall because that is the only way they'll learn, then I respect that. But I'm still going to point out the obstacles, and if they still trip and fall, then maybe that is exactly what they needed, but I'm not going to stick out my foot and trip them either because I think that is what they need in order to learn the lesson properly.

[zedro]

Well you'll always find the most generic of 'things' on TV and media, the more advanced learning aspects in life are from our own experiences and interacting with the hidden/emergent teachers we'll encounter along the path. So I wouldn't get too hung up on the Creators Marketing Department, it always comes off as a bit cheesy because that's what salesmanship feels like.

[tadeus]

If you are not willing to look at yourself with 100% honestly, then how can you ethically expect your students to do the same?
There are so many corrupt spiritual teachers who become cult leaders and this is why I think it’s absolutely imperative to be completely transparent in your teachings. 


This is why I think it was tasteless… I posted a reference to it in the comments on that particular video and it “mysteriously” got deleted. The Death of Don Elkins .
How does one get so detached from their own teachings?

I agree.
Aditionally i want to get to think about the fact, that it is a false premise when students seek an idol instead of knowledge which only conveys an ideal.
By the way, it is the same thing that happened to the man Jehoshua - he was turned into an idol that have to be worshipped, although he only wanted to convey the ideal of the Christ / I AM.


I will not study the details of this case with Don, because this is expected to be as unedifying as it is expected to be pointless.
In both Satanism and fiction, everything is simply mirrored and used against someone.
It is to be expected that the background information that Carla has provided will unfortunately be misused and not only used for a positive understanding of the situation of the interviews with Ra.

[tadeus]

I think all spiritual learning is easier when it is done with other-selves. If you wanted to learn all by yourself, you’d go the service to self route wouldn’t you? The service to self polarity spends the majority of the fifth density alone, and that is a very long time to be learning on your own. Fourth density positive is all about coming together for form a social memory complex. I’ve seen what isolation does to people in third density, as they have no one to ever challenge their opinions or to keep them grounded, as they tend to fly off the deep end on their ideas when they have no practical way to see them in a larger perspective, or have anyone to ever challenge their point of view, or offer a different one.

O.K. You primarily refer to spiritual learning and not to learning general / school learning.

It's correct that it is always better to learn together in a group, exchanging different points of view and possible facets of knowledge / facts.
For my spiritual learning in this incarnation i avoided groups so far, because the almost ubiquitous New Age Spiritual movement has always put me off such "events".

Are you talking about The Ringing Cedars of Russia series by Vladimir Megre? Those books found me about 7 years ago at a thrift store and changed deeply my perspective on teaching. The Vedic culture that Anastasia is a part of is very much in alignment with a fourth density society I believe.

Correct - i refer to the wedic history and form of life, described in the books by Vladimir Megre.
Please realize that this form of living in spirituality and in harmony with the nature has already been part of the human culture, before everything was turned into the opposite.

[tadeus]

I am observing teachers who are relying too heavily on logical teachings and are not coming to a nice masculine/feminine, or love/light balance instead, basically giving people the wisdom to learn but not that emotions to properly handle it. Teaching only logically is why our traditional education system is so f***** up.


Why is it the default of this planet to just let people fall, when you can at least point out the obstacles in their way to help them see the path better?

That's the reason i have written that the current education system  in this world only implements the kneed-to-know basis, so that everybody is only able to work as a perfect biological robot.


Just learn how this matrix / fiction works and you have all the answers for such questions.

[Spiritualchaos]

I will not study the details of this case with Don, because this is expected to be as unedifying as it is expected to be pointless.
In both Satanism and fiction, everything is simply mirrored and used against someone.
It is to be expected that the background information that Carla has provided will unfortunately be misused and not only used for a positive understanding of the situation of the interviews with Ra.

Um no, this article is not any of those things as I would never share anything I didn’t stand by with conviction. It was very tastefully written by someone who had a more loving and compassionate perspective, who studied the Law of One for years, who knew the L/L team personally, who was tired of all the lies being passed around about what happened. Most of this information came strictly from the material Carla shared herself. This stuff is important to know, nothing is pointless, there are no mistakes, just situations that require loving awareness. Maybe next time just give it a chance before assuming it’s pointless.

This was almost me. I almost got so lost in the past that I took my own life multiple times while incarnation because of the intensity of the hopelessness and pain I have felt while being here. This article is exactly related to what this entire thread is all about. Not addressing your emotions and only looking at life from a logical perspective has its consequences.

This person I was referring to that was making jokes at Don, Carla, and Jim’s expense was not aware of their own connection to them, and I thought it was tragic to see how disconnected he was from his heart that he was not able to feel his own connection to them. There is a lot more to this situation than you are seeing on the surface.

[tadeus]

Um no, this article is not any of those things as I would never share anything I didn’t stand by with conviction. It was very tastefully written by someone who had a more loving and compassionate perspective, who studied the Law of One for years, who knew the L/L team personally, who was tired of all the lies being passed around about what happened. Most of this information came strictly from the material Carla shared herself. This stuff is important to know, nothing is pointless, there are no mistakes, just situations that require loving awareness. Maybe next time just give it a chance before assuming it’s pointless.

This was almost me. I almost got so lost in the past that I took my own life multiple times while incarnation because of the intensity of the hopelessness and pain I have felt while being here. This article is exactly related to what this entire thread is all about. Not addressing your emotions and only looking at life from a logical perspective has its consequences.

This person I was referring to that was making jokes at Don, Carla, and Jim’s expense was not aware of their own connection to them, and I thought it was tragic to see how disconnected he was from his heart that he was not able to feel his own connection to them. There is a lot more to this situation than you are seeing on the surface.

I read your article now, because you have criticised that i have posted something without reading it completely.
Your article is a good summary, offering some new aspects i didn't recognize, specially the exact details what happened with Don.
To be clear - i don't want to judge the story about Don, Carla and Jim in any way!

I agree that it is helpful to understand the story about the channeling team, because the situations did influence the content of the Ra channelings.

But i cannot understand how this relates to "New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations" ?

I think everyone should know the story of Don's death in relation to the Ra material. Not only is it a cautionary tale for those who claim to want to work with high magic, showing how easily small distortions of the ego can become huge problems when you become the focus of a negative entity, but it also shows another victim of our intensely violent police state.

This is true, but at least all suicides are affected by distortions that come mainly from beyond the self, the reasons can be very different.

Referring to the above post i want to say, that it is better to concentrate on the content of the learning and not on the teacher.
Whatever happened to the channeling team is very tragic, but has no influence to the content Ra has teached.

It is the same to every other source of knowledge - please learn to distinguish.
There are sources with teachers who have an attitude that can only be rejected, but who can still provide essential knowledge.
So i will end here quoting Q'uo:

We ask you that perpetual favor: that you utilize the words and thoughts that we give you that you feel are important to you at this time, and for those that do not speak to your heart, that you leave those behind. We, appreciate this gift of your discrimination, it allows us a wider range of response to your query.

[Spiritualchaos]

It is the same to every other source of knowledge - please learn to distinguish.
There are sources with teachers who have an attitude that can only be rejected, but who can still provide essential knowledge.

The fact that you cannot see how all of this is connected, makes me feel like you are the one who might be having troubles distinguishing what is worth knowing and what is not. I have no issues seeing the connections, as they are everywhere and in every situation within this spiritual movement and throughout life. I understand the Law of One deeply as I have been living it since the day I came to this place, and this stuff matters. How it effects you physically, emotionally and spiritually matters deeply.

This will be my last post on these boards. Good luck on your journey forward, I hope one day you can learn how to live from your heart and not just your mind. But I am running out of hope for this place when even the wanderers are having difficulties discerning how to live from a place of unconditional love. Love is the most powerful magic in the universe, yet everyone wants to skip over their hearts. That is what the service to self polarity does and I want no part of it.