Are you going to take the vaccine?

[Ymarsakar]

Take it up or not. Spreading frear rhetoric liie *threats* is not of interest to me. Boring pass.

To patrick, edit

[Patrick]

To readers of this thread.

I am curious to know if any of you believe they could change their mind regarding vaccination ?

I am not talking only about going from not wanting it to wanting it, but also from wanting it to not wanting it.

Personally, for making such a decision, I look at the data myself. I like to believe I would change my mind if the data starts indicating a need for this.

What are your decisions based on ?

--

I am asking this because groupings in the Universe seems to align based on similarity of belief and intentions.

So then we might be making an erroneous assumption here. We might be thinking there is only one group. Maybe that is not the case.

It seems to me that it would be futile for different groupings to argue about anything at all if their method of making decisions are too distinct.

What are your thoughts?

[LeiwoUnion]

Does it matter? Does any amount of 'data' matter? My mind went from 'not wanting it' to discarding the catalyst as unneeded, thus my focus is elsewhere; same with the pandemic. I saw this whole experience as useless to me after some consideration, so that I can invest my limited 3D time and focus into proper lessons. This sounds like ignorance about the 'elephant in the room' but in truth my current awareness of the vacc and covid experience matrices is similar to general awareness of dust mites. I saw behind the hidden doors, and I know I don't need this experience, so I'm not affected. My workings lie elsewhere, so this means that in my mind there is no choice, no opinion, no argument. There's only the conscious lessons, and the unconscious lessons. My compassion lies with the ones 'required' to wallow in these matters without clear sight. Open your heartmind and what do you see? One path. Others will be returned to the box eventually.

[confusedseeker]

The level of global anxiety is intense right now. We here are not above it, if anything, I'd say more susceptible, taking more of the brunt. Nerves are getting frayed. There's this really nasty dark inverted Saturnian/Piscean energy going around. It might be these HeylEl or whatever. It's bombarding Earth and we are getting hijacked by it. It's overly severe and scornful. It's like a grandmaster who uses way too much "stick", kills his pupil, and goes "f*** it he was a sinful impure weakling anyway". It's an energy that likes to rub salt in wounds, hold people to impossible standards, kick people when down, and make things overly difficult just for the satisfaction of watching watching lowly sinful humans writhe and suffer.

This energy represents none of us, but we are all capable of taking on this over-severity in short bursts. The Dark Hierophant judge. Lately It's caused me to be more irate and impatient and put up barriers to people in my daily life, simply because they are being difficult to deal with rather than supportive, because they are also under stress. I'm the one who needs to be supportive, open my heart, forgive, tolerate, and have patience. I'm the one that needs to not hold others to impossible standards.

Let's all be wary of being sniped by a burst or stint of this crappy archetypal energy.

In a weird way I'm actually kind of...relieved? The last year and a half has woken me up to spirituality and positive/negative energy more than I EVER could have imagined. I went from borderline Atheist/nihilist to...."wow, there is definitely something else going on here."

[Patrick]

Does it matter?...

Not really. I'm just being curious and wanted to understand more about my other-selves.

...Does any amount of 'data' matter?...

It does to me and when it does not for my other-selves then I like being aware of that.

We can just say it's based on faith alone and that's that.

As the saying goes: "Don't bring data to a faith based debate". Knowing data is not important means I won't present any and we can just discuss the spiritual side of things unencumbered with facts, observations or data.

[Patrick]

In a weird way I'm actually kind of...relieved? The last year and a half has woken me up to spirituality and positive/negative energy more than I EVER could have imagined.  I went from borderline Atheist/nihilist to...."wow, there is definitely something else going on here."

That is indeed the greatest thing about all the cage shaking going on. It really promotes critical thinking and shakes people loose.

From there a whole new panorama of possibilities opens up for the person.

[LeiwoUnion]

In a weird way I'm actually kind of...relieved? The last year and a half has woken me up to spirituality and positive/negative energy more than I EVER could have imagined.  I went from borderline Atheist/nihilist to...."wow, there is definitely something else going on here."

That is indeed the greatest thing about all the cage shaking going on. It really promotes critical thinking and shakes people loose.

From there a whole new panorama of possibilities opens up for the person.

Indeed. In my eyes, all really is well, we all have our quests.

[canada_dry]

Patrick makes a good point that, If we are controlled by STS folks, it wouldn't be through a vaccine, it would be subliminal mind control through media to behave a certain way...

Yes and it is what we are observing. The very fabric of our societies has a lot of negative teachings embedded in it already and web sites like bring4th are those places where people can come to find some positive inspiration.

The current disinformation campaign against vaccination can be traced back to their negative source. It is a very small number of people that are behind it. They have an obvious agenda of keeping the population sick and vulnerable to this and future viruses.

Since people are waking up, it's no longer enough to have the mainstream medias do the job. So many spiritual circles and many CT circles have let themselves become seduced by STS teachings of dichotomy.

They are trying to extinguish the voice of reason. Trying to understand how things are behaving inside our little sandbox (science) is pretty much the only protection we have against the lies and manipulation of the negatives. It makes it much harder for them to have their way with us.

So of course, that is what they are attacking. I could remain silent and let those seeds flourish on these forums, but I choose not to. I'll be a bit of a pita about it from now on I am afraid.

Now that you’ve taken the vaccine it seems to have activated the next level of vaccine crusading as it seems to do.

It is an Experimental new medical treatment forcing random cells in your body to produce dangerous spike proteins. FDA status = unapproved. Alternative safe cheap Medical treatment available - ivermectin which is currently proven to decease deaths by 80%. Long term side effects of mrna injections unknown. VAERS flooded with adverse reactions, deaths, miscarriages, seizures etc. vaers Backlogged, possibly only representing single digit percentage of actual adverse events. Big pharma making insane profits. Vaccine being combined with vaccine passports to enhance control over populace. If you can’t see why someone should be hesitant to take the jab you need to meditate or something I don’t know.

This is not anti-science. Guess what? Science requires vaccines to be tested on people for 10 years because sometimes they f*** you up after some years. Why is everyone ignoring that? Why is this brand new risky treatment being pushed to the population by the power elite? It’s plain as day to see something is not right.

[Ymarsakar]

"Why is this brand new risky treatment being pushed to the population by the power elite? It’s plain as day to see something is not right."

Until humanity at large undergoes a near death crisis, to obtain yogic attainments, they need several ego deaths, to let go of their institutions and so forth.

Just like a con man trying to do a 3 game monty fraud to steal people's money, the positive uses this as a teaching experience in discernment and forgiveness/compassion. The con man is trying to take people's money with the game. The positive saint is trying to convert the heart of the con man and to forgive the con man, in playing the game.

But to win the game, people will just have to stop playing. In other words, each individual is receiving a different test, according to their imbalanced chakras.

This will only accelerate in the years to come, until people hit high and low on the rollercoaster multiple times.

That is the only way the general population "can wake up". Any kind of government disclosure or media saying stuff, is only a surface band aid. If people hope to graduate the Harvest, they will need to do a lot of work. Several life times compressed in a single life time, if they are going to make it past the Solar Flash Event.

"I went from borderline Atheist/nihilist to...."wow, there is definitely something else going on here.""

Just wait and see, 2021 advent of Golden Age.

Of course, many people will think the sky is falling or Luke is falling to his death from high above. The cycles are repeating faster and faster. To compress things as time is short.

I am planning on even more amazing stuff, if you think the current stuff is something.

[Patrick]

For those not interested in facts, observations or data.

Why do you use such things in your argumentation?

It seems to me that if a debate is to happen that is fact based, observation based or based on data, then you can't simply ignore any of it at your whim. You should not also try to present data that is pulled out of thin air.

Doing these things comes down to faith and beliefs. We can certainly debate vaccination from a faith based point of view. Indeed this is a spiritual forum.

[David_1]

   Some say, “Follow the science.”
   But many scientists and doctors that have spoken the truth have been banned and some murdered.  Only the “science” of lies will be promoted by those who wish to enslave others.
   Sadly, probably at least 70% of humanity is totally asleep, and do not realize what is intentionally being done to them.

[David_1]

   How many times has the mainstream media “science” presented the fact that more people have died from the Maxine shots during the past six months than the total who have died from all other shots combined during the past twenty years?
   I would imagine it is precisely zero!

[Ymarsakar]

"It seems to me that if a debate is to happen that is fact based, observation based or based on data, then you can't simply ignore any of it at your whim. You should not also try to present data that is pulled out of thin air."

The reason why Patrick volunteered to be bring4th's guinea pig, is precisely because there was a deadlock upon whose "facts" to believe.

As a result, personal eye witness testimony and experimental subjects are the only recourse, given nobody can trust the other side's "scientists".

As a result, Patrick's recent behavior is not exactly convincing the people here in the past who talked about the wax having a deleterious effect on the SPIRIT portion of mind body spirit, that they were wrong.

[David_1]

A 24-second video:
http://82.221.129.208/pfizermagnet.mp4

Why does a magnet stick to the shot?
Is it the nanobots in the liquid?

[Ymarsakar]

   Some say, “Follow the science.”
   But many scientists and doctors that have spoken the truth have been banned and some murdered.  Only the “science” of lies will be promoted by those who wish to enslave others.
   Sadly, probably at least 70% of humanity is totally asleep, and do not realize what is intentionally being done to them.

Human harvests have been severely limited or even complete failures, in the past if the Confederation is telling the truth.

This cannot be due to a human conspiracy, since humans don't live that long. There is another System doing this.

[Spaced]

"It seems to me that if a debate is to happen that is fact based, observation based or based on data, then you can't simply ignore any of it at your whim. You should not also try to present data that is pulled out of thin air."

The reason why Patrick volunteered to be bring4th's guinea pig, is precisely because there was a deadlock upon whose "facts" to believe.

As a result, personal eye witness testimony and experimental subjects are the only recourse, given nobody can trust the other side's "scientists".

As a result, Patrick's recent behavior is not exactly convincing the people here in the past who talked about the wax having a deleterious effect on the SPIRIT portion of mind body spirit, that they were wrong.

Having known Patrick for 9 years I fail to see any change in his personality. What I do see is you projecting your biases onto him and hoping to make them stick in order to discredit him.

[Ymarsakar]

"Doing these things comes down to faith and beliefs. We can certainly debate vaccination from a faith based point of view. Indeed this is a spiritual forum."

No, this is "are you gonna take the waxine" mega thread and related.

This is not the Patrick "you get to debate what I choose you get to talk about" thread.

[Patrick]

We don't need to rely on the MSM as the source of our data.

But mostly I am interested in observations per se.

Because the obvious elephant in the room is that we all see what we want to see.

So for example, those convinced that they would see a difference in people after vaccination will find things to notice.

I am interested in following observations and data to their source and so that is what I do.

I even directly communicate with doctors and researchers.

--

Anyway, it has been demonstrated multiple times in this thread that there is no real interest in having a proper debate. I tried multiple times.

I have been participating in this thread because I saw a lot of people being alarmed and wanting to share what they found alarming and figured it would be worth bringing a more balanced viewpoint. Wanting to reassure. The end result is plastered all over this thread.

Since there is no interest in being reassured and there seems even to be a liking to remain in this state of feeling alarmed. Maybe people want 4D to arrive so bad, that they don't care how it happens? Any disruption is good because finally something is moving? So there is invigoration in crisis?

In the end, this whole thing really is a faith based debate. I have no problems with that. But I would simply suggest that we all drop the pretense of working with facts, observations or data. And instead discuss this crisis and vaccination from the point of view of Confederation material.

[Patrick]

No, this is "are you gonna take the waxine" mega thread and related.

This is not the Patrick "you get to debate what I choose you get to talk about" thread.

Explain to me then why any posts in this thread would contain anything other than the words Yes or No? Why would anyone try to explain their choice? Or try to convince others that they have made the wrong choice?

And also if I gave the impression that I wanted to choose what others would say, then I can only say that I am sorry for that, it was certainly not my intentions.

[Agua]

A message from my b4 grave

There are a few things that I find strange about this whole debate, but one things strikes me especially:

This,is,a,spiritual forum, especially dedicated to the Ra material and the Quo channelings.
Rarely a debate goes without quoting,some parts of the Ra or Quo gospel.

This whole Covid thing and the vax especially seems to be one of the most important topics for humanity at this point in time.
The debate over the vax not only dividing this but seemingly most communities.

Wouldn’t it be the most obvious thing to ask Quo these questions?
There many channelings in the library with much less relevant questions!

Even if it’s just the students circle, why not ask a few questions?

questions like:

- is the vaccine safe and does nothing else than protect from the virus?

I am sure Quo would answer with a plain yes, as long as it’s all safe and has no other implications!

Other questions would be:

- does the vaccine compromise harvestability?
- does it have effects that influence or compromise ones spiritual development in this lifetime?
- does it have effects that exceed this incarnation?

It almost seems as if the channelers were afraid of the answers...

I am pretty sure Quo would not answer or rather say something,along „law of confusion“ if there were negative effects.

So why not ask these important questions?
Wouldn’t that be an area where you guys could use some guidance from your chosen authority in spiritual matters?

Just wondering...

[Scah]

A message from my b4 grave

There are a few things that I find strange about this whole debate, but one things strikes me especially:

This,is,a,spiritual forum, especially dedicated to the Ra material and the Quo channelings.
Rarely a debate goes without quoting,some parts of the Ra or Quo gospel.

This whole Covid thing and the vax especially seems to be one of the most important topics for humanity at this point in time.
The debate over the vax not only dividing this but seemingly most communities.

Wouldn’t it be the most obvious thing to ask Quo these questions?
There many channelings in the library with much less relevant questions!

Even if it’s just the students circle, why not ask a few questions?

questions like:

- is the vaccine safe and does nothing else than protect from the virus?

I am sure Quo would answer with a plain yes, as long as it’s all safe and has no other implications!

Other questions would be:

- does the vaccine compromise harvestability?
- does it have effects that influence or compromise ones spiritual development in this lifetime?
- does it have effects that exceed this incarnation?

It almost seems as if the channelers were afraid of the answers...

I am pretty sure Quo would not answer or rather say something,along „law of confusion“ if there were negative effects.

So why not ask these important questions?
Wouldn’t that be an area where you guys could use some guidance from your chosen authority in spiritual matters?

Just wondering...

Shouldn't the chosen authority in spiritual matters be oneself? Just wondering...

[Minyatur]

A message from my b4 grave

There are a few things that I find strange about this whole debate, but one things strikes me especially:

This,is,a,spiritual forum, especially dedicated to the Ra material and the Quo channelings.
Rarely a debate goes without quoting,some parts of the Ra or Quo gospel.

This whole Covid thing and the vax especially seems to be one of the most important topics for humanity at this point in time.
The debate over the vax not only dividing this but seemingly most communities.

Wouldn’t it be the most obvious thing to ask Quo these questions?
There many channelings in the library with much less relevant questions!

Even if it’s just the students circle, why not ask a few questions?

questions like:

- is the vaccine safe and does nothing else than protect from the virus?

I am sure Quo would answer with a plain yes, as long as it’s all safe and has no other implications!

Other questions would be:

- does the vaccine compromise harvestability?
- does it have effects that influence or compromise ones spiritual development in this lifetime?
- does it have effects that exceed this incarnation?

It almost seems as if the channelers were afraid of the answers...

I am pretty sure Quo would not answer or rather say something,along „law of confusion“ if there were negative effects.

So why not ask these important questions?
Wouldn’t that be an area where you guys could use some guidance from your chosen authority in spiritual matters?

Just wondering...

There's this quote that might give an idea about why it is not very useful:

26.36 Questioner: Then I am assuming all of the UFO groups who were getting telepathic contact from the Confederation were, shall we say, high-priority targets for the Orion crusaders, and I would assume that a large percentage of them were, shall we say, had their information polluted then. Can you tell me, do you have any idea what percentage of these groups were heavily polluted by the Orion information and if any of them were able to remain purely a Confederation channel?

Ra: I am Ra. To give you this information would be to infringe upon the free will or confusion of some living. We can only ask each group to consider the relative effect of philosophy and your so-called specific information. It is not the specificity of the information which attracts negative influences. It is the importance placed upon it.

This is why we iterate quite often, when asked for specific information, that it pales to insignificance, just as the grass withers and dies while the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator redounds to the very infinite realms of creation forever and ever, creating and creating itself in perpetuity.

Why then be concerned with the grass that blooms, withers and dies in its season only to grow once again due to the infinite love and light of the One Creator? This is the message we bring. Each entity is only superficially that which blooms and dies. In the deeper sense there is no end to beingness.

[Patrick]

Those are interesting observations Agua.

Here I believe is why Q'uo would probably not be specific on something like that.

First Ra mentioned that it is not the specificity of the information that is an issue, it is the focus on that specificity for the receiver of said information.

Second, you can try to imagine how you would react if Q'uo made it quite clear that vaccination is our obvious way out of this catalyst. Really imagine what effect this would have on you.

I tried imagining what I would feel like if Q'uo made it quite clear that they are mourning the entities that took the vaccine and are now lost forever within this time lateral.

Anyway, that is how I figure we would not be given anything other than a general statement. But yeah we can always ask them. The real issue in the asking is how important is the answer to the questioner. I think the questioner would have difficulties in remaining detached from that asking.


PS:

My pondering on what I would feel like if Q'uo were to say something like that is that I would probably loose a lot of trust in Q'uo as a source of spiritual information.

This is likely to happen to you as well if they were specific against your beliefs.

Why would Q'uo risk loosing our Ear when they still have so many wonderful things to tell us?

[Black Dragon]

A message from my b4 grave

There are a few things that I find strange about this whole debate, but one things strikes me especially:

This,is,a,spiritual forum, especially dedicated to the Ra material and the Quo channelings.
Rarely a debate goes without quoting,some parts of the Ra or Quo gospel.

This whole Covid thing and the vax especially seems to be one of the most important topics for humanity at this point in time.
The debate over the vax not only dividing this but seemingly most communities.

Wouldn’t it be the most obvious thing to ask Quo these questions?
There many channelings in the library with much less relevant questions!

Even if it’s just the students circle, why not ask a few questions?

questions like:

- is the vaccine safe and does nothing else than protect from the virus?

I am sure Quo would answer with a plain yes, as long as it’s all safe and has no other implications!

Other questions would be:

- does the vaccine compromise harvestability?
- does it have effects that influence or compromise ones spiritual development in this lifetime?
- does it have effects that exceed this incarnation?

It almost seems as if the channelers were afraid of the answers...

I am pretty sure Quo would not answer or rather say something,along „law of confusion“ if there were negative effects.

So why not ask these important questions?
Wouldn’t that be an area where you guys could use some guidance from your chosen authority in spiritual matters?

Just wondering...

Shouldn't the chosen authority in spiritual matters be oneself? Just wondering...

I cannot agree more with this statement. However, I also do find Agua's idea to ask these questions for channeling sessions interesting. It does make sense to want to know what the Confederation has to say, as much as they are allowed to share.

[Agua]

@ scan
Neither Ra nor Quo are a spiritual authority for me, I found my own source within a long time ago.
You may have noticed that I never quoted Ra in any of my posts.
It has been my observation though that Ra as well as Quo are being viewed as an authority in this community, that’s why.

@Patrick
Personally, I found the Ra material inspiring and an interesting read, but they are not an authority for me, for various reasons.
I found the Quo channelings at times interesting, but considerably lower in quality, to be honest.
I do not put trust in Ras or Quo’s words, so there is no trust I could lose.
My comment was rather concerning the fact that both Ra and Quo seem to have a high relevance here.

Apart from that, I don’t need to be convinced, I received clear guidance for my personal path on this matter and that’s all I need.

@all

I am surprised how many „reasons“ speak against asking these questions.

Edit:
Since the majority of people associated with L/L Research seem to be vaccinated already, I doubt these questions would be asked honestly...

[Ymarsakar]

Yes I will
34.78%
24

No I will refuse to take it (my choice)
57.97%
40

I will take it if I'm forced to( by societal/workplace or family/ pressure)
7.25%
5

Generally the world over, humanity has begun purging and isolating the non waxinated population, although it is not a minority as many seem to believe. Passports and other stuff, are very unpopular, even amongst societies normally obedient to human authority.

This is especially visible on social media, as alternative voices are shut down, and when alternative voices leave, they also get shut down. This is the Mark of the Beast system many people were concerned about. How they could not do anything in human society, without a social credit score authorizing that they are "viable" by the State. Chinese Social Credit. People not being able to use paypal or credit cards because of some personal remark they made on social media.

Even if Jim asked Q'UO this question, how can it be answered without violating people's free will? What they can do is to ask the question "is this specific action we are about to take, hindering or promoting our spiritual path".

[Scah]

deleted

[Patrick]

@Patrick
Personally, I found the Ra material inspiring and an interesting read, but they are not an authority for me, for various reasons.
I found the Quo channelings at times interesting, but considerably lower in quality, to be honest.
I do not put trust in Ras or Quo’s words, so there is no trust I could lose.
My comment was rather concerning the fact that both Ra and Quo seem to have a high relevance here.

Apart from that, I don’t need to be convinced, I received clear guidance for my personal path on this matter and that’s all I need.

Ok thank you. I think I see why you would not mind them answering such questions then. I put a great deal of trust in Ra's and Q'uo's words so someone like me might be more affected. Although, like you, I am the only authority for myself as well.

But also, why would you ask them that question if you're just going to dismiss any answer you don't like or just continue feeling comfortable in your current position if the answer aligns with you? The answer would have no effect on you whatsoever no?

So why would you be interested in asking?

@all

I am surprised how many „reasons“ speak against asking these questions.

The Confederation has mentioned many times that the simple act of asking such questions has magical charge. It seems to me that a great many channelers out there don't know about that, but personally I like that we keep our channel as clear as possible.

[Diana]

The Confederation has mentioned many times that the simple act of asking such questions has magical charge

In this case, then isn't all questioning magical? I think so, as it takes an individual from one who just follows whatever the status quo is to one who is awakening to her/his own sense of discernment and therefore accountability and responsibility.

[Patrick]

The Confederation has mentioned many times that the simple act of asking such questions has magical charge

In this case, then isn't all questioning magical? I think so, as it takes an individual from one who just follows whatever the status quo is to one who is awakening to her/his own sense of discernment and therefore accountability and responsibility.

Yeah, I think I forgot to qualify that charge.

A magical charge is intended to do work in a direction or another. In this case a magical charge towards negative work maybe. Or if that is too strong, then at least a magical charge not towards doing positive work.

But mostly the charge we are talking about here is what attracts to you the part of the Creator you wish to channel. So such transient questions, if the answers are very important to the receivers, would lessen the positivity of the call that attracted the principle of Q'uo to this group. It would take many such questions to make it so that Q'uo is no longer attracted. But still why do it if no light and love can come out of it anyway?