Trump rally in Tulsa causing an earthquake and demonstrating a case study

[TheAmbiguousSod]

I am sure it was the tree too Diana...  isn’t Findhorn the best guide ever

Yes. I read their story many years ago. It is truly amazing. Human beings tend to separate themselves not only from each other, but from all the other beings present here with us. Which is why, I think, Findhorn was so successful, because they worked with and respected other life forms.

This is so wonderful and synchronistic, I have recently introduced my sister in law to Findhorn as she had a cottage in Scotland and loved plants and the Earth as much as I do. She described to me about an hour ago about asking the ants in the kitchen to please leave because it isn’t safe for them. Usually when they appear they just reproduce and more and more appear but she said she asked them with love and they nearly immediately began to leave. It reminded me of asking the bugs on the lettuce to please go to the sacrificial crop of lettuce at findhorn. The harmony and communication available to us is incomprehensible.

I’m so pleased for your cactus and tree and for the fact that you no longer have to worry. I find gardening teaches me so much about freewill. Along with my cats.

Let us all remember that all this energy may be generated by people, nothing we do will stop that. What we can do is work on ourselves and ability to form harmonious vibrations beneath our feet. These are stronger compared to the less harmonious and can help us equalise the results of the hatred, division etc.

Trump is a man, I can’t blame him for a thing he has done. I try to see him as myself and to send peace to him. All politics is divisive, this forum displays it brilliantly. His supporters are men and women just like yourselves who genuinely believe he has their best interest in his heart. Whether he does or not is unimportant, let us try to send love to our Earthly mother in order that those who are a little ignorant, have the time to learn whatever they have come here for.

We are not powerless in this situation.

[TheAmbiguousSod]

Also those that are incarnate are here by seniority of vibration. This means they are the most likely to graduate at this time. This means the positive and negatives are going to increase and there will be a huge race to polarise.

The STS have just as much right as anyone else to learn their lessons and do their thing. I have great sympathy for many who endeavour to be STS. It is not my idea of a beautiful world but I will not condemn them, they have much to teach us about ourselves. We may feel outraged at the suffering of others. It is within our capabilities to push out a hostile invasion with thought, if the people unified and had a shared intention. This is our advantage as STO. Service to self entities cannot share an intention for the gain is always personal to them. For us it can be the gain of everyone and mankind that is personal.

The fact that we all cannot agree to disagree and our egos still feel the need to be right, shows that we are not succeeding in being harmonious. Are we all attempting to be? Why did you write your last post? Did something trigger you and you felt the need to defend your so called sense of self? This is often the case for myself and I can see it in you too, it’s helpful to be aware that by being divisive and hateful about trump causing earthquakes, you’re contributing to those so called disasters. It’s ironic really, the irony is always where truth lies.

[Diana]

This is so wonderful and synchronistic, I have recently introduced my sister in law to Findhorn as she had a cottage in Scotland and loved plants and the Earth as much as I do. She described to me about an hour ago about asking the ants in the kitchen to please leave because it isn’t safe for them. Usually when they appear they just reproduce and more and more appear but she said she asked them with love and they nearly immediately began to leave. It reminded me of asking the bugs on the lettuce to please go to the sacrificial crop of lettuce at findhorn. The harmony and communication available to us is incomprehensible.

This is how I conduct my life. I never kill anything, not because I have any religious beliefs of any kind, but because I respect all life. I take scorpions outside when they get inside my house and I "speak" to other life forms as you sister did. As a matter of fact, I wrote a novella about a woman who talked to insects and specifically started with her talking to ants. It's on Amazon as a Kindle book (I'm not trying to get you to read it ):
The Path with a Heart

I love insects and find them incredibly beautiful.

Let us all remember that all this energy may be generated by people, nothing we do will stop that. What we can do is work on ourselves and ability to form harmonious vibrations beneath our feet. These are stronger compared to the less harmonious and can help us equalise the results of the hatred, division etc.

Trump is a man, I can’t blame him for a thing he has done. I try to see him as myself and to send peace to him. All politics is divisive, this forum displays it brilliantly. His supporters are men and women just like yourselves who genuinely believe he has their best interest in his heart. Whether he does or not is unimportant, let us try to send love to our Earthly mother in order that those who are a little ignorant, have the time to learn whatever they have come here for.

We are not powerless in this situation.

I think many members here are just trying to sort out how to live in this world. It isn't easy. Even for Wanderers, or especially Wanderers, this is a difficult proposition. For some, sending love would be enough; some are activists; some are just trying to figure out what to do when there is so much suffering. Each must follow their own path.

And we come here—at least I do—to discuss these things and learn to communicate better (certainly I do, as I find continually that I do not communicate in words very well at times, and I fail to get across what I really mean). We all have thoughts in our heads. The problem is, for many members, they have no where else to talk about these things with those who have an understanding or attraction to such as the Ra Material. So I think it's fair that we allow this interplay in the threads, where chaos may ensue in an effort to express the unexpressed, hear different points of view, and hopefully make some sense out of it.

[StormShadow]

I saw we veered off into discussions of communism in this thread, so I wanted to highlight Ra’s own definitions of America’s capitalism and Russia’s communism (remember, this was in the context of the eighties) in 65.7:

“... either the controlled fascism or the equally controlled social common ownership of all things...”

In other words, both systems are STS systems of control, but the important thing is the people stuck in them.

[flofrog]

I am sure it was the tree too Diana...  isn’t Findhorn the best guide ever

Yes. I read their story many years ago. It is truly amazing. Human beings tend to separate themselves not only from each other, but from all the other beings present here with us. Which is why, I think, Findhorn was so successful, because they worked with and respected other life forms.

This is so wonderful and synchronistic, I have recently introduced my sister in law to Findhorn as she had a cottage in Scotland and loved plants and the Earth as much as I do. She described to me about an hour ago about asking the ants in the kitchen to please leave because it isn’t safe for them. Usually when they appear they just reproduce and more and more appear but she said she asked them with love and they nearly immediately began to leave. It reminded me of asking the bugs on the lettuce to please go to the sacrificial crop of lettuce at findhorn. The harmony and communication available to us is incomprehensible.

I’m so pleased for your cactus and tree and for the fact that you no longer have to worry. I find gardening teaches me so much about freewill. Along with my cats.

Let us all remember that all this energy may be generated by people, nothing we do will stop that. What we can do is work on ourselves and ability to form harmonious vibrations beneath our feet. These are stronger compared to the less harmonious and can help us equalise the results of the hatred, division etc.

Trump is a man, I can’t blame him for a thing he has done. I try to see him as myself and to send peace to him. All politics is divisive, this forum displays it brilliantly. His supporters are men and women just like yourselves who genuinely believe he has their best interest in his heart. Whether he does or not is unimportant, let us try to send love to our Earthly mother in order that those who are a little ignorant, have the time to learn whatever they have come here for.

We are not powerless in this situation.

I love what you say about politics...

Isn’t that awesome about the ants and your sister in law ? The same thing happened to me about ten years ago... I asked the deva of the ants if they could please stop coming inside my house, and they did !!!

I love Findhorn... I love gardening ... I so feel like you there’s nothing more healing..

I remember a story linked to Findhorn where someone knows that in a wild part of a garden, somewhat woodsy, there a need to take out one tree and the tree falls in midair and the person watches in awe because it’s going to crash one younger tree, and the tree stops in mid air and slowly turns a light angle and falls crashing nothing under him.

Whatever we look at is all sacred

[unity100]

That's absurd.  This is one small example.

MOSCOW —
A five-year investigation has uncovered bribery and corruption that cost the Uzbekistan Soviet Republic at least $6.5 billion and involved high-ranking officials including the son-in-law of the late Soviet leader Leonid I. Brezhnev, Pravda said Saturday.

The official Communist Party newspaper said the corruption was institutionalized, and that involved officials and millionaire entrepreneurs in the Central Asian republic hired bodyguards and bought police protection.

You will notice that the date is 1988, and it is much after the 'perestroika' and 'glasnost' started. By 1988, the future oligarchs which would destroy entire Eastern Bloc had already formed. Everything was already gone by that date.

millions of citizens were held at near poverty wages and lifestyles

Boy....

Guaranteed jobs, free housing, free vehicles, free transportation, free healthcare, free education, free childcare, free social clubs, free hobby clubs, free sports clubs, reasonable work hours, reasonable retirement age and pay, paid vacations...

What was already freely given to everybody in such countries as USSR like the above, require 2 spouses working for ~40 years in well paid jobs to acquire and keep in US today. And preferably, a white collar couple in well paid jobs. With sufficient job stability.

And they can lose everything at any given moment - like how many people lost everything in 2008, despite being well educated professionals.

Even the amenities listed above are what define how someone will live. If you cant acquire them, you are not only poor, but your survival is in danger in a place like US.

In USSR they were guaranteed things - to the extent that nobody thought they could lose those when moving to capitalism. Nobody told them that. When they lost those, they were much surprised. They did not imagine that those things were also being put into the market...

(to the extent that defectors were imprisoned or worse)

For majority of USSR's history, you could move abroad if you paid back the free education etc you were given.

I don't understand the context of your distortions.

You dont understand the context, because you still hold an immense amount of conditioning from the decades long false illusion which the existing establishment created to protect itself.

For example you didnt know that you could move abroad in USSR. And you probably dont know that US government still taxes you even if you move abroad today. As long as they get the tax, you can live anywhere - wherever you want. Of course, if you do anything sufficiently significant to upset US, there are extradition laws. So, in a sense, as an American you can never move abroad, wherever you go.

Or, you didnt know that the amenities which the people in Eastern Bloc took for granted and did not even imagine that they could be lost, require a lifetime of precarious, back-breaking work in 'free' US. Dont work for this back breaking corporation, its your choice. Youll have to work for the other anyway. If you dont, homelessness and potentially being shoved outside the city after getting your tent confiscated in the winter and dying by freezing awaits you. That is, if you dont opt for going to California, where they treat homeless more humanely than many US states, of course...

But that is never talked about. Just like the other false-illusion creating lies.

Lying by omission.

And that makes the exploitation and negativity go on - 'This may not be perfect, but it is the best system we have' -> It isnt. It is designed to be bad.

Ardor is necessary to dismantle the false illusion so reality can be seen, and then change can happen.

yet abundant riches were harvested in arms manufacturing, resource extraction, etc.  Where do think all that money went?

Military spending. Eastern Bloc had created and maintained a military enough to win Ww3 and then the aftermath despite having only ~15% of world's resources. US controlled ~75%. Eastern Bloc had to do this because there was a pending nuclear attack plan which US decided on and started implementing after Ww2 until mid 1960s. After that, Eastern Bloc had a brief respite and their life standards immensely improved, sending Kennedy Admn. into a panic, thinking that because USSR's life standards were increased to 2nd world standards within a decade, other countries would take their example and try 'independent development' (aka socialism), and kick US businesses and interests out or damage their profits. This is called the 'Domino Theory'.

That is the reason for Vietnam war. It was created to stop the 'domino effect' and 'make an example of' countries which could try independent development.

Additionally Kennedy started space race and an accompanying arms race to starve USSR of gdp. Which Reagan again picked up when his term started.

...

So basically Eastern Bloc had to spend majority of its gdp for being ready for a pending global nuclear war instead of consumer spending. Because of US literally building up to it, and even almost doing it a few times.

In Reagan administration only, there were 2 cases in which world was saved from a nuclear war only by the decision of the Eastern Bloc to not retaliate against an obvious attack. Reagan ordered attack drills which precisely simulated large scale attacks with actual forces - something which is literally indistinguishable from an actual attack until very last critical moments.

Forcing Eastern Bloc to spend all their GDP for Ww3 preparedness aside, the delirious actions of US establishment almost caused destruction of human civilization in 4-5 total occasions, 2 being during Reagan's term.

I'm so glad you are attempting to clarify the terribly negatively distorted viewpoints of these very negatively polarized "entities" on this forum. ..... This whole right wing nonsense that we have been witnessing around the world for years now, is becoming part of the end result of a carefully crafted global message of negativity and yes, hate, of "the other", of those that are different than the ones in power. Need I mention exactly the description of what "those in power" represents here?

Leaving actually negatively polarized entities aside, there are many people who are not ready for 4d vibration (positive or negative) who try to revert back to 3d through 2d behavior patterns. Like 'us vs others', the herd behavior, going back to early 3d concepts like race, nation, tribe, traditionalism, religion and other things.

This is not a particularly negative thing, than it is a coping mechanism and a regression. The proper density for these entities is not early 4d. Its at most late 3d, for some, its mid 3d.

So, there is such a regressive segment, trying to go back to 'good old times'.

Not that those old times were good actually - they were good because they were children then and had little responsibility - the weight of the world, which was much heavier, was borne by their parents and caretakers.

But of course, there are likely noticeable segments of people who want to go back to more understandable patterns not because they are old and they remember 'good old times' of 60 years ago when they were children, but because they want to go back to more simpler 3d patterns since they are not ready for 4d - even if they are young themselves. So you can find a 30-40 year old person who is likely in a 3d/4d transitional body, but who at the same time wants to go back to 'simpler' times or adopt simpler behavioral patterns of old ages. Religion, tradition, nationalism, tribalism and so on.

Best action would be to provide a proper 3d to 4d transitionary society which would ensure the well being and livelihoods of everyone and therefore letting them live their lives in peace and with well being.

The only problem with this is that these very segment above unwittingly enable actual negative entities using their biases and pushing exactly the opposite society than what they need.

Just a little thought on Russia.

Being originally born in France i have had a few friends initially born in Russia, as a matter of fact two writers, both now not alive on Earth anymore. Both while recognizing that some good came out from the revolution in 1917, it came to immense losses with prisoners camps and elimination of any rebelling against central power, plus an incredible system of surveillance and spying on neighbors, giving anyone away as suspicious, practices not known as conducive to peace of mind and a sense of inner freedom.

From these two, their views on the fall of the Berlin wall and subsequent events did not so much as create a new corruption as mainly providing to the previous elites the means to continue the previous corruption, and unfortunately solidifying their power.

Indeed, the views of the former Eastern Bloc population from the segments which received good education, which succeeded in entering the top 20%-30% of the later capitalist society are always positive about the fall of Eastern Bloc. And most of these people end up being english speakers. You can find many on internet.

Not visible is the opinion of the people from the ordinary majority, from retirees who now have to subsist on scarce pay to their grandchildren who cant receive an education. They wont be english-speaking, having time to impart opinions on internet about former USSR or post capitalist Russia. They are the invisible majority.

Its not dissimilar to the capitalist US society - you can find many people on internet who think that they are 'middle class' in US, and yet, they are actually in the top 10%, if not 1%. And this is double-striking because 'middle class' term in US means 'working class', because the term was bastardized decades ago. So basically there are noticeable segments of Americans on internet who think they are working class, without even being aware that their income and assets qualify them in top 10% of their society. I even saw one who was in top 1%, but she thought she was 'middle class', because, obviously, there are people much richer than her and there obviously are poor people 'out there somewhere'...

The one benefit they used to talk about was the relative indépendance of satellite countries which were included in the previous USSR.

Indeed, USSR did everything to prop up its satellites, ramping up their industry at the expense of its own. Which was used by nationalists as a propaganda point in later Russia.

Incidentally this is also what relatively kept the life standards of those satellite countries in post-Eastern Bloc period when the entered European Union. EU protected the social democratic economic protections and guarantees for the people to a certain degree, and the industry which was built into these countries by major efforts of USSR kept some of these countries' economy.

But, if you ask the uninformed in those countries, things 'just happened' and they are now much better than before by the virtue of turning capitalist. They have no idea what could befall on them if they actually went capitalist like Russia instead of going social democrat inside Eu. They have no idea that still could happen to them if neoliberalism takes hold in Eu as some internal and external sources (US) are trying to make happen...

Also they were both very adamant about the majority of Russian people totally able to see through the official propaganda and exacerbating in fact their deep sense of humor....

Yeah. Many Russians think that...

That they were able to 'see through propaganda' by labeling everything their government/TV said as 'lies', and instead going on to believe what they saw in CIA bootleg tapes as 'true'.

Thats how many Russians believed that life in US was like how it was depicted in selected movies in CIA bootleg video tapes. And that is how there are still Russians who believe there isnt homelessness in US today. They didnt believe their TV when it said that there were a lot of people who live in poverty in US or homeless in NY living in cardboard boxes. They believed the movies they saw instead. There is a reason why CIA told Movie producers to always show black actors in suits and well to do as early as 1950s explicitly, telling them that doing otherwise (depicting them more realistically as they are treated in US society) would show US in a bad light.

So, basically, knowing the region a bit, i can just say that those old Russians did not see through propaganda as they self-profess, but they just cynically dismissed anything they were told by their government due to Eastern European / Russian cynicism and fatalism. Which also plagues a lot of regions, from Balkans to parts of Anatolia.

[gramboginn]

"So, basically, knowing the region a bit, i can just say that those old Russians did not see through propaganda as they self-profess, but they just cynically dismissed anything they were told by their government due to Eastern European / Russian cynicism and fatalism. Which also plagues a lot of regions, from Balkans to parts of Anatolia."

And this is what is happening in this country. People cynically acceptinganything they were told by their media systemdue to Liberal or Republicancynicism and fatalism. Which also plagues a lot of regions, from California to New York

This world's biggest problem is thinking we're separate. When this one obvious fallacy is dissolved, the world changes overnight. The world seems to ebb and flow with emotion due to what is hip and popular in the media.

The universe is a very cold and harsh ruler of life and death. Animals are governed by the rule of survival of the fittest. All alien races are also ruled by this very brutal truth. We Earthlings are silly, and downright blinded to our own beliefs...to think we can overturn this brutal fact. We lie to each other via tv, radio, internet, chat groups to think that we can overturn this premise. The differences create reality and force choice. Because of this continual fight against the premise of survival of the fittest we wander around this planet thinking life is either unfair and therefore I can set fires of rage and anger or worthy of praise because I've climbed to the top of the mountain and I'm impervious to being knocked off. The two polarizing factions (and their varying level of hate due to their groupings, economic levels etc) go around and around thinking they are different from each other, only to leave their bodies and realize how wrong they were to live a life of separation and hate.

I would advise to not watch the news/media at all. It is a biased bullhorn that "earned" the right to broadcast 60 years ago because of a few very wealthy white men...and it's only going to make your life quite miserable. To enjoy life read books about non-judgment, pick up Buddhist books as a simple guide of peaceful living...see the change in the world as a result of us moving through a new band of the universe and shrug the drama off your shoulders and out of your life. The 4th dimension will arrive and you and I will both leave this body. Fighting and being angry all the time will put you in the hospital with a terrible cancer diagnosis which will be a very unfortunate and painful death. None of us is right about anything...it just is. Focus on the realities of life and how unfairness is in everything we do...when you accept this your path through life will be much much more peaceful.

[Ray711]

So, the people in Eastern Bloc were eating slightly worse than their public officials, but yet they were still eating and eating well.

I'm trying to keep it civil, but I'm not going to pretend that I am not outraged by this statement.

How do you explain the following?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Do you call that eating "slightly worse"?

[Black Dragon]

So, the people in Eastern Bloc were eating slightly worse than their public officials, but yet they were still eating and eating well.

I'm trying to keep it civil, but I'm not going to pretend that I am not outraged by this statement.

How do you explain the following?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Do you call that eating "slightly worse"?

I think things like that are easy to overlook, explain away, etc. from the perspective of an apologist/fanboi. Arguing the merits of socialism is one thing, but touting an authoritarian Earth government as somehow highly enlightened is just ignorance and folly. I believe that a(democratic/non-authoritarian) predominantly socialist system is superior to a purely/predominantly capitalist one. I feel that such a system has a future, while capitalism is a dead end. I also believe that certain aspects of the USSR were not quite as bad as the west painted them, and that is wasn't any more corrupt or oppressive than any other government including the US, and was arguably the lesser of two evils in comparison.

That being said, the governments of Earth are predominantly STS oriented, and the USSR was absolutely no exception. The USSR was an elitist, authoritarian state in which a ruling elite exploited the rest of society, just like the US. Do you know what the average person in the USSR was really eating? A big fat dick just like the rest of ordinary people on Earth living under their governments. To say otherwise is just uninformed or willfully ignorant. It's the same mentality of those who cling to Trump and make excuses/spew apologetics for all his crap.

"It's all the liberal media painting him the bad guy!" I've seen the exact same excuse used in support of both Trump and the USSR on this thread, ironically enough. Just change "liberal media" to "western media". It's sort of that effect I was talking about, where people who tow left/right lines and defend political figures/institutions end up sounding just like the guys on the other extreme, because their way of thinking and lines of reasoning are paradoxically more similar to the politically opposite extreme than to people less defined by/attached to the left/right paradigm. By less defined/attached, I'm not talking neoliberal and neoconservative "moderates", but of actual independent thinkers and outliers who are not fully defined/represented by either the "left" or "right" as expressed in Earth politics.

So yeah, we can argue endlessly or agree to disagree on who or what is the lesser of two evils politically speaking. It's when somebody starts touting one of those evils as actually good and spewing bullshit apologetics in their/its defense that we lose sight of the bigger picture and start towing some dumb line, and that's when the debates turn into divisive arguments.

[dexter101]

i dont think people here have any idea about the elite's agenda. trump is nothing. to even consider the president powerful is a joke. he is a puppet just like everyone else. every politican is a puppet designed to distract the masses from the true agenda. the elite's agenda is neither left nor right. it is all about control. just do your research. there is enough info out there to piece it all together if you are willing to bypass your distortions.

[Black Dragon]

"So, basically, knowing the region a bit, i can just say that those old Russians did not see through propaganda as they self-profess, but they just cynically dismissed anything they were told by their government due to Eastern European / Russian cynicism and fatalism. Which also plagues a lot of regions, from Balkans to parts of Anatolia."

And this is what is happening in this country.  People cynically acceptinganything they were told by their media systemdue to Liberal or Republicancynicism and fatalism.  Which also plagues a lot of regions, from California to New York

This world's biggest problem is thinking we're separate.  When this one obvious fallacy is dissolved, the world changes overnight.  The world seems to ebb and flow with emotion due to what is hip and popular in the media.

The universe is a very cold and harsh ruler of life and death.  Animals are governed by the rule of survival of the fittest.  All alien races are also ruled by this very brutal truth.  We Earthlings are silly, and downright blinded to our own beliefs...to think we can overturn this brutal fact.  We lie to each other via tv, radio, internet, chat groups to think that we can overturn this premise.  The differences create reality and force choice.  Because of this continual fight against the premise of survival of the fittest we wander around this planet thinking life is either unfair and therefore I can set fires of rage and anger or worthy of praise because I've climbed to the top of the mountain and I'm impervious to being knocked off.  The two polarizing factions (and their varying level of hate due to their groupings, economic levels etc) go around and around thinking they are different from each other, only to leave their bodies and realize how wrong they were to live a life of separation and hate.

I would advise to not watch the news/media at all.  It is a biased bullhorn that "earned" the right to broadcast 60 years ago because of a few very wealthy white men...and it's only going to make your life quite miserable.  To enjoy life read books about non-judgment, pick up Buddhist books as a simple guide of peaceful living...see the change in the world as a result of us moving through a new band of the universe and shrug the drama off your shoulders and out of your life.  The 4th dimension will arrive and you and I will both leave this body.  Fighting and being angry all the time will put you in the hospital with a terrible cancer diagnosis which will be a very unfortunate and painful death.  None of us is right about anything...it just is.  Focus on the realities of life and how unfairness is in everything we do...when you accept this your path through life will be much much more peaceful.

I agree on your premise of left and right-wing "fatalism and cynicism", and people thinking they are separate...however, I would like you to elaborate on what you define as "survival of the fittest", what this idea means to you and why it's important. It throws up a bit of a red flag for me, because the phrase "survival of the fittest" is one I usually see people use to justify cynicism, apathy, sociopathy, and STS/predatory behavior as well as things like eugenics and forcibly altering/weeding/breeding to fit some established baseline. I find it to be a rather base and mechanistic concept. I see countless people use the excuse of life's inherent unfairness to justify being shitty unfair people themselves and to make things even crappier than they inherently are rather than going against the pattern and striving to make fairness and joy wherever they can, in the aspects of life they do have control over.

The physical, veiled 3d reality is counter-intuitive in some ways and it, exacerbated greatly by the ways of Earth society, paint a picture of the "fittest" being the most dominant, controlling, and least empathetic. In the long run, the truth of the matter is a lot different from a societal standpoint, as cultures based on domination and predation and hierarchy have a tendency to be less efficient, less cohesive, and potentially self-destructive, which are not traits I find very "fit". Symbiotic, win/win, egalitarian types of societies would fit my definition of "fit", and destroy themselves and their planets far less often, hence better fit for survival.

Any "alien" race that's worth a damn isn't "ruled" by this notion of "survival of the fittest" at all: it has transcended such definitions and is "ruled" by its principles.

[Ray711]

I believe that a(democratic/non-authoritarian) predominantly socialist system is superior to a purely/predominantly capitalist one.

I agree in general with your reply. I also agree with this notion that the ideal government, under our current (human) concept of what a government is, would be one that strives towards a balance between socialism and capitalism. However, I think we need to move much further than our current, limited view of what a government is.

The answer is neither socialism nor capitalism, but a broader perspective that sees the other-self as the self.

The problems with capitalism are well known to us and they have been expressed already in this thread.

The problem with communism is that it entails forced compassion, forced sharing. It's an arrangement forced on people where resources are administered in such and such a way, for such and such purposes. Those who disagree with the communist perspective are forced to share that which they don't want to share, and for a time, this might work relatively smoothly. But this discontent will always carry great potential for destruction, which will manifest at the first opportunity, whether it is more overtly or covertly.

With the perspective of seeing the other-self as the self (which might be a spiritual perspective, but maybe not necessarily so), self-interest expands to include not only the individual egoic desires, but also the interest of other-selves. There is no arrangement necessary under a society where most of its individuals have expanded their consciousness in this manner. Sharing will occur organically, out of people's own free will, this kind of sharing being much more significant, valuable, and appreciated. Are we happier when someone lends us a hand out of their own kindness and free will? Or when we receive money from an impersonal system where it was simply decreed that we were entitled to a certain amount, knowing full well that a portion of said money came from people that didn't even have a genuine desire to give it?

It throws up a bit of a red flag for me, because the phrase "survival of the fittest" is one I usually see people use to justify cynicism, apathy, sociopathy, and STS/predatory behavior

I agree. Survival of the fittest might have been part of the system that took 2nd density life forms into 3rd density, but once that threshold is crossed, one has to start looking at what the next level of evolution entails. I see the basic choice of polarity to be one of either staying at the level of "survival of the fittest", exploring such a notion to its fullest and darkest potential, or to look at the possibilities beyond, and contemplate love as that which will take us further. Those who love the most might just be the fittest of all, despite appearances.

[unity100]

"So, basically, knowing the region a bit, i can just say that those old Russians did not see through propaganda as they self-profess, but they just cynically dismissed anything they were told by their government due to Eastern European / Russian cynicism and fatalism. Which also plagues a lot of regions, from Balkans to parts of Anatolia."

And this is what is happening in this country. People cynically acceptinganything they were told by their media systemdue to Liberal or Republicancynicism and fatalism. Which also plagues a lot of regions, from California to New York

I think its the total opposite: For a bunch who boast about not trusting government, American right seems to be exceedingly trusting of what the government says. They buy whatever the government says about China, Venezuela, Iraq (still), this or that other country they dont like, they buy whatever they are told about whatever race, religion, ideology or concept they dont like, they buy whatever they are told about wars and military (still!).

It seems as long as what they are told is in line with their personal biases, there is no problem in trusting the government...

I find the non-conservative segments more cynical and more investigative. Even as they are also aligned with their respective propaganda outlets.

The universe is a very cold and harsh ruler of life and death. Animals are governed by the rule of survival of the fittest. All alien races are also ruled by this very brutal truth.

Not only from the material, but also by observing the Earth's natural world, you would find that this kind of pessimist approach is not correct.

Species which cooperate among themselves, prosper in Earth's nature. Even if it is harsh. Species which cooperate in between each other, prosper even further. That only carries over to the universe in general - species that cooperate would prosper further.

Possibly for that reason, the negative segment is ~1/10 of the positive segment in creation at all times. A ration which Ra noted.

Its just that the societal structure on this planet was negative. The root of many problems...

The 4th dimension will arrive and you and I will both leave this body.

4th density is already here. You are witnessing the birthing pains of the 4d society which will exist in it. Because the 3d society has been negative structured.

There is no body-leaving needed. 4d is happening here and now.

So, the people in Eastern Bloc were eating slightly worse than their public officials, but yet they were still eating and eating well.

I'm trying to keep it civil, but I'm not going to pretend that I am not outraged by this statement.

How do you explain the following?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Do you call that eating "slightly worse"?

Leaving aside that is not relevant to the majority of Eastern Bloc's period history...

http://orientalreview.org/2012/12/17/epi...1932-1933/

How about a gold embargo by UK which was designed to force Soviets to export their grain to buy machinery to industrialize, or not industrialize at all. Right at the time when there was a risk of famine across entire Europe. Even as UK itself needed gold/liquidity desperately due to Great Depression tanking entire market and causing a liquidity crash.

Soviets took a calculated risk, banking on the possibility of famine not happening, and obliged with UK's measure obviously designed to put them in peril.

UK won the gamble and famine happened.

And yet, USSR implemented rationing across entire USSR in order to help the regions affected by famine - so much that from the records, we know that rationing in Leningrad, northern rich regions, was harsher than the rationing in Ukraine, in order to help Ukraine region.

At this point it must be noted that the private farmers, who happened to be ex-minor nobility of their villages throughout Russian imperial history, were allowed to keep their privileges of private farming and profiting by Lenin. This proved a mistake during the famine, as these Kulaks have hoarded the grain that was produced to gouge prices at the cost of their compatriots' lives, and even destroyed some in order to prevent prices from going down. Exactly the same thing that happens today in the West.

https://time.com/5843136/covid-19-food-destruction/

And that's also the same thing which happened during Great Depression US, even as Americans were impoverished, homeless and hungry.

Incidentally, if you apply the formula that the American military-industry complex uses to calculate 'deaths' in USSR or China, you get a figure of ~7 million people dead from Great Depression in US.

Same formula is used to 'calculate' 'death's in 1950s China during famine. Even as US effected a global grain blockade against them via UN at that period. Why would someone effect a grain blockade against a country, other than the aim of starving its people...

The suffering of people in Great Depression US is unspoken during these propaganda, of course. Because, the establishment does not want anyone to pay attention to worse situations in its own backyard. Worse, because even as USSR did everything in its power to aid the regions with famine, Hoover administration just let people starve and suffer to not intervene in the 'market'. Actual ideological murder, that is.

So USSR aids everyone during its famine indiscriminately. US lets its people starve based on ideology. But, its USSR and others who are 'ideological murderers'.

Lying and projection.

That's what it is.

Just like how Iraq was invaded in 2003 for oil based on lies, 1 million killed, its oil robbed, everything destructed, US backed radical islamists to control the region, but what happened is still Iraqis' fault.

The exact same narrative used in white supremacist literature to justify and explain the genocide of American Indians - 'They got exterminated, but it was for their own good'.

Yes, that's an actual argument used in such literature. Especially late 19th century literature. Even so a lot of extremist right figureheads use it.

The bully beats up the kid in the playground. But it is the kid's fault for having the bully hit him.

...

So basically, to 'explain' things like Holodomor, one just needs to look a little bit wider on the globe map in the period. And talk about what is not being talked about...

Were there mistakes and mishaps in such countries which tried to revolutionize their society? Yeah, definitely.

Were any of those intentional genocidal massacres as claimed by Angloamerican establishment?

Not even funny as a joke. People only believe these things and get outraged like you thanks to incessant, uncontested, decades-long propaganda.

If we didnt have internet, by this time everyone would 'know' that there were WMDs in Iraq, Saddam posed a great danger to civilization and he was planning to destroy it

The answer is neither socialism nor capitalism, but a broader perspective that sees the other-self as the self.

Yeah, except that is socialism. Seeing the society as a whole, leaving no one behind, prioritizing the people, and in more positively polarized stages, the society over the self.

The problem with communism is that it entails forced compassion

Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless Star Trek environment. You are talking about Marxist-Leninism, aka Stalinism. You are not even talking about Leninism.

Even when speaking in that context as misusing the word communism for Stalinism:

How do you think that compassion happens in positive 4 societies? Do you think you can just be selfish if you choose so? Do you think you can still stay in the 4d positive society despite choosing to act selfish?

Or do you get sent to live as wanderer in some 3d planet so that you can polarize positively enough. Or, even 'worse' - you just leave that society and instead join a proper negative society to go along with your selfishness?

The reality of the matter is that what you call compassion and sharing are obligatory in positive 4d. You cant even pretend to have them and not have them.

...

Leaving the more advanced, spiritual analysis aside, non-forced compassion and participation in the society just does not work:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/17/us/cr...index.html

When you make it optional to participate in well being of the society, this is what you end up with. Everybody dodges paying taxes, especially the ultra rich who command most of the society's wealth, and the society literally, physically, actually crashes down.

Participation in and taking care of the society is not an optional and voluntary thing just like cleaning and taking care of your house is not optional and voluntary. Dont do it, and it just comes crashing down.

Just like how a house is someone's abode, just like a body is someone's manifestation that needs to be taken care of by fulfilling certain basic obligations, a society is a living, existing entity in itself which must take care of itself. Just like the cells in a body takes care of each other and the body.

It is not optional because no body whose cells do not cooperate and take care of each other and the body, can survive.

For anything you hold so dear to happen - from freedom to love - first you must be alive. You as a person, and your society as an entity.

[AnthroHeart]

I agree unity100 that we are in 4D now. Though there is still a veil, even if partial.
I know I feel a oneness and connection to everything.
Samadhi is pretty fantastic.

[Black Dragon]

Alright, maybe there is a lot more disinformation about the human rights standards of the USSR than it would first appear. I'm open to doing some research on the subject on my own, however, It does not change the fact that I'm skeptical of Earth governments and big institutions as a rule of thumb, because as a rule of thumb, they are predominantly STS(even says so in the material, but it doesn't take 6d beings to confirm the obvious). Stalinism isn't the same as the pure idea of socialism or communism, but it's the way certain things were done in the Soviet union at least during certain time periods and events. In general, the type of communism employed was authoritarian in nature.

Also, although we did cash in on oil by invading Iraq, I think that's just a more or less true smokescreen for even more urgent assets we were trying to acquire, based on the suspicious and professional lootings of Iraq's biggest museum, and the type of stuff that was purportedly stored there...stuff that could at least change the mainstream narrative of our history if brought to light, if not actually things of a technological nature. Remember, Iraq was once Sumer.

[Ray711]

People only believe these things and get outraged like you thanks to incessant, uncontested, decades-long propaganda.

I won't get much into what may be propaganda or what is fact, because at the end of the day, history (very much like science) is based on trust. We trust historians or scientists to have used evidence and an unbiased study in order to bring us facts that few of us are even capable or directly checking for ourselves. Just like most of us have never seen what a gene looks like or how they work exactly, we have not experienced life in certain countries at certain points in history, and even if we had, we still wouldn't have been privy to the intentions and actions of those people in power who no doubt conspired for some purposes or others.

All I can say is that the information that we have gives me little doubt that the USSR was every bit as imperialistic and totalitarian as the US, if not more so. The thing about war, whether it's a conventional war or a cold one, is that it takes two to tango. Both the US and the USSR craved to be top dog and to impose their respective philosophy on everyone at a worldwide level, "for their own good". Thus we see the decades long dick measuring contest, the interventionism on other sovereign countries in an effort to further push one's ideology while simultaneously attempting to eradicate the opposite one.

But let's put aside historical facts for one moment. You seem to know more about communism than me, so correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge, one of the very premises of communism is that in order for it to truly work it has to operate on a worldwide level. Such a premise betrays the totalitarian and imperialistic notions behind the ideal of communism.

Ra themselves said it. Session 65.7:

The ideal of freedom from the so-called invading force of either the controlled fascism or the equally controlled social common ownership of all things would stimulate great quantities of contemplation upon the great polarization implicit in the contrast between freedom and control.

Further elaborated here (session 34.9):

There are some few whose desires to aid society are of a green-ray nature or above. These entities, however, are few due to the understanding, may we say, of fourth ray that universal love freely given is more to be desired than principalities or even the rearrangement of peoples or political structures.

So, when you claim that seeing the other-self as the self under the framework of socialism is the same as doing it under the framework of positive polarity, you are incorrect. An important part of choosing the positive polarity is to refrain from demanding others to be "good". It is the choice either to embody what one believes in, being a living example of it to others, or to demand the world to become how one wishes it to be. The recognition of free will in the positive polarity is so strong, that pure positivity very much entails giving others the freedom to be "evil", let alone selfish. Ra says this here:

71.14 Questioner: You have made the statement that pure negativity acts as a gravity well pulling all into it. I was wondering first if pure positivity has precisely the same effect? Could you answer that please?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. Positivity has a much weaker effect due to the strong element of recognition of free will in any positivity approaching purity. Thus although the negatively oriented entity may find it difficult to polarize negatively in the midst of such resounding harmony it will not find it impossible.

True love and true sharing happen joyfully, organically and out of people's own free will. This kind of sharing is indeed rare in our society, but the kind of enforced sharing that communism and socialism entail, as convenient and comfortable as it might be from our vantage point, is of no spiritual significance whatsoever. There is never an expectation of any return when one acts from the positive polarity, as it is stated many, many times throughout the Ra material.

[unity100]

they are predominantly STS

A government is an empty tool - it acts according to who you put in control.

Elect sociopaths based on self-centered sentiments like those in US, the government becomes a plunder-machine.

Elect pro-people representatives, the government becomes the backbone of your society.

I think that's just a more or less true smokescreen for even more urgent assets we were trying to acquire, based on the suspicious and professional lootings of Iraq's biggest museum

Control of oil resources by compliant regimes in order to ensure the foreign reserve currency status/value of dollar based on oil trade was necessary. All the rest were peripheral objectives.

US , since a while, does not need oil - after the neocons were able to push through fracking and get shale oil in US at the cost of poisoning the groundwater. But US needs those countries who trade oil to trade it in dollars so that Fed can issue more dollars without dollar losing value.

[Infinite Unity]

That is all surface distraction.....I think the point your missing, is that it’s so much deeper and more connected than people project. This isn’t random events for the most part. They are information controlled chain reactions. The American Societial Fabric is literally vanishing before our eyes. It’s most apparent in the current generation of teens and children.

This isn’t about heretics, Christianity, or Puritan instilled beliefs/doctrine. This is all about power, place, and control. While they have polarized and front staged this political circus. They roll out 5g , the network that has the computational ability, and the speed required for the system they want to implement. With in ten years this society will be completely controlled, if something isn’t done now.

Instead of race rioting, and destruction of property. We should be tearing down 5g towers and all the gatchets that come along with it. Like facial recognition cameras.

The next phase of this will be where everything is hooked to the internet. From your toaster to your blinds, and you and no one else will be able to escape this electronic/technological prison.

Go watch Hitlers speeches, study what was going on in Germany. Hitler practically invented how we live now. From cruise ships to the vacation itself. Fluoride in your water; yep that’s nazis ideas. Then compare how hitler spoke and what he focused on. Then go watch Donald Trumps speech’s. Practically twins.

98 percent of anyone on this planet with considerable money, influence, or position is connected, and apart of a group, that work together.

[unity100]

That is all surface distraction.....I think the point your missing, is that it’s so much deeper and more connected than people project. This isn’t random events for the most part. They are information controlled chain reactions. The American Societial Fabric is literally vanishing before our eyes.

Ther eis nothing planned, controlled or heinous about this: Its just plain old selfishness.

Dont take care of your house, and you end up living in filth.

Dont take care of your society, and you end up living in sh*t.

US handed over its wheel to simple, basic greed to 40-50 years ago. Made money and wealth its gods. Made Capitalism its religion. This is the result.

This isn’t about heretics, Christianity, or Puritan instilled beliefs/doctrine. This is all about power, place, and control. While they have polarized and front staged this political circus.

US is not the first society to collapse into chaos due to selfishness of its people leading them to make bad choices. Millions of selfish people enable and empower selfish leaders who will wreck the entire society for their own benefit. This happened in Rome, happened in many other periods and societies. Every time such a situation arises, it always ends up the same.

Puritan Christianity, Capitalism becoming a religion, conservatism, traditional values etc are all excuses and rationalizations to justify and enable selfishness. Anyone who simply glances over Christianity's teachings can see that there is no Jesus in American Christianity.

They roll out 5g , the network that has the computational ability, and the speed required for the system they want to implement. With in ten years this society will be completely controlled, if something isn’t done now.

That's just conspiracy theorism. With that logic, Internet was a tool of control as well and it was bad. And yet, here you are, discussing spiritualism and philosophy with people from all around the world, typing from the comfort of your home at your whim. This was unimaginable 30 years ago.

Instead of race rioting, and destruction of property. We should be tearing down 5g towers and all the gatchets that come along with it. Like facial recognition cameras.

Facial recognition cameras were already here. London has become the world's surveillance capital years ago. It has nothing to do with 5G.

5G is just faster 4G and the only reason it is 'dangerous' and 'bad' is because US corporations are behind in implementing it. Hence the immense propaganda to lure suckers into believing 5G is an evil conspiracy in order to delay the Chinese corporations and European ones taking market share enough so that US can catch up.

Ah - also Huawei's 5G equipment does not have backdoors that allow CIA to spy on everyone. Whereas every Cisco device has.

That's why Germany, Spain and many other European countries are using Huawei's 5G stations and that's exactly why US State Dept. and 'intelligence community' is throwing a tantrum.

The next phase of this will be where everything is hooked to the internet. From your toaster to your blinds, and you and no one else will be able to escape this electronic/technological prison.

Wow... So horrible, the technological prison...

You persuaded me - lets sign out of the forum, shut down our computers, and go back to writing each other letters in order to debate spiritualism and philosophy. And while we are at it, why dont we go back to horse carriages and pumping our water from the village well...

Go watch Hitlers speeches, study what was going on in Germany. Hitler practically invented how we live now. From cruise ships to the vacation itself.

That's false, there is no flouride in my water and The Donald is the very product of the American alt-right which propagate all the conspiracy theories you mentioned.

While using the very Internet and technology that they are complaining about to boot...

[Ymarsakar]

I think looking back just a few years or decades from now people will just think of how absurdly dumb people were and what the reasoning was for people to form gigantic crowds shoulder to shoulder claiming that the lives of one particular ethnic group mattered as a result of one person being killed..hundreds of miles away from where the majority of the protests even happened.

...During a plague that is spread by people being in close contact.

These people are going to be remembered as tremendously self-important on a truly dangerous level.

How do people look back on the civil rights movements of the 60s?

That brought good changes but this has enabled a lot of rioters to burn and loot communities which people can say all they want about how that wasn't the protestors themselves but the fact is that they enabled the thieves. Knowingly. This will bring some positive changes but for the most part I think it's foreign governments that need their overreach checked more than a lot of places in the U.S.

These protestors can force political institutions to be more politically correct but I bet the KKK or white supremacists have their numbers swelling right now. You can't force people to not be racist, and by enabling rioting I bet tons of people are feeling validated in their ugly racism by thinking "that's why I don't want those kind in my town."

Donald Thump is so easy to diss but I myself look at it like he is nobody to me personally. To see people so obsessed with him on both aisles just reminds me of a speech I remember in Sahaja Yoga where it's stated that being a left or right winger means you aren't looking at the middle path which is finding people who practice your spirituality so your community of peace and truth-seekers grows in strength. This is what L/L Research in a sense says with a lot of the Q'uo readings.

A left winger makes an individual powerless and the government authoritarian like Cuba/Russia/China, while a right winger enables individuals and their corporations to become more powerful than whole nations. I used to care so much about politics but I really don't anymore. Spirituality and government oftentimes just don't mix.

edit: I bet this point will be controversial but all I'm stating is that this was probably the worst time a group of people could choose to cause economic damage and joblessness during a pandemic allowing it to spread and evolve. There are a lot of unseen forces at work in any event of this magnitude but looking back I will wonder who in their right mind would actually think of this as the perfect timing? Oh yeah it's what everyone needed.

I don't know about controversial, but it makes sense to me. And I agree that having a more balanced or neutral viewpoint is better overall. The Law of One does not seem to be biased towards Dark or Light, Self or Other, but shines on all equally. As all are part of the Creator/One.

[houtje]

The evidence here is anecdotal, circumstantial at best. Many here fail to see that Trump (like literally everything on this planet) is a temporary distortion that is serving as a vehicle for catalyst.

Anyone who has been paying attention to Ra's teachings will realise that Trump is deserving of your love, same as anyone else. The more you hate him, the worse it'll become.

Whatever judgement you make, do it lovingly; keeping in the back of your mind that you're looking at other-self.

Everyone else is just another way of being you.

If you judge them, you judge yourself.

And this is not what forgiveness is.

Peace out.

[Glow]

Agree of course. I would think we all do. The silliness is when he is portrayed as loving or acting to bring in pure values. Drain the swamp so to speak.

He is providing beautiful effective service at a crucial time. Offering daily opportunities to choose love or hate, unity or separation service to others, or self.

Incredibly effective and the same light that inhabits us all just playing a part to polarize, bring the disharmony to the surface so it like all shadow aspects can be healed.

Much love to the creator in all its roles/forms.

[houtje]

Agree of course. I would think we all do. The silliness is when he is portrayed as loving or acting to bring in pure values. Drain the swamp so to speak.

He is providing beautiful effective service at a crucial time. Offering daily opportunities to choose love or hate, unity or separation service to others, or self.

Incredibly effective and the same light that inhabits us all just playing a part to polarize, bring the disharmony to the surface so it like all shadow aspects can be healed.

Much love to the creator in all its roles/forms.

In a way he does bring about the draining of the Swamp. Perhaps not directly, but a large segment of the population voting for him are bascially saying: "enough already, let's wake up!"

But this happens in stages, gradually as to not shock, upset or crash the system. You have to dismantle it piece by piece. Remember that the seeking is not a collective thing but a deeply personal thing. It's a personal proces for each and every one of us to realise that the collective is one.

Trump is serving as the next iteration of the awakening of many, many now as well as the deception that is needed to be the catalyst to other many, many now who need another good slap in the face in order to wake up! That's why I've openly supporting Trump from the very beginning. Trump is a sort of balance between the domination and control of the elites but at the same time a loosening of its grip. Because the elites know they can't fool us for much longer. On the other hand; Trump cannot at this time (and perhaps not any time) be the grand saviour because this is not beneficial to the realisation of the Law of One. One has to realise source within; not be depended on source without.

Trump is not something we should fear. Some people will fear him; some will worship him and then fear him because of the deception, disappointment. But ultimately it's all just a manifestation of the personal awakening proces of each and every one of us.

The whole damn structure is ONE. It's like a rhizome. Everything is connected and influences each other. I know you know this, but it helps us to keep formulating this image out loud in order to make our understanding stronger, a little better, a little wiser!

[unity100]

In a way he does bring about the draining of the Swamp. Perhaps not directly, but a large segment of the population voting for him are bascially saying: "enough already, let's wake up!"

Unfortunately he threw $3 trillion to the stock market and tax breaks in the face of a pandemic which 30 million went jobless, without healthcare. And he was about to push a war with Iran just before the pandemic started - which would probably escalate into a major nuclear war. All because his Israeli allies wanted, and his evangelists supporters backed in order to make apocalypse happen and 'make Jesus come back'.

Trump is serving as the next iteration of the awakening of many, many now as well as the deception that is needed to be the catalyst to other many, many now who need another good slap in the face in order to wake up! That's why I've openly supporting Trump from the very beginning.

A liberal NY billionaire acting as a conservative president backed by fundamentalist evangelists who want to effect a major nuclear war somewhere so that 'Jesus can came back and make them ascend'. All the while him throwing 3 trillion to corporations backing him...

...

The only awakening which such lying manipulators serve is to teach the spiritual seeker not to believe in lies and deceit. I very much believe that majority of seekers pass through such a stage in which they believe and empower lying sociopaths who claim to be 'the good guys'.

[curio_city]

I'm certainly not a political scientist, but my thinking is that communism hasn't worked and likely won't work anytime soon. It could work, but only if it occurs spontaneously and by the free will of all involved. Free will is what's important here, and the political system which best observes and encourages it would be the optimal one. In my mind, that's not a system that rations, even if it is giving handouts; nor does it censor, even if it is promoting what it purports to be in the best interest of all.

[Patrick]

The issue with communism is that the Elites always ensured that it was trialed bound to a dictatorship. Thus ensuring to create a strong negative feeling towards it in the populations of this planet.

But communism is not the solution anyway. The solution is to let go of the concept of money completely. We are ready to do reverse accounting instead. À la resource based economy style but with all the complexity handled by artificial intelligence.

[houtje]

In a way he does bring about the draining of the Swamp. Perhaps not directly, but a large segment of the population voting for him are bascially saying: "enough already, let's wake up!"

Unfortunately he threw $3 trillion to the stock market and tax breaks in the face of a pandemic which 30 million went jobless, without healthcare. And he was about to push a war with Iran just before the pandemic started - which would probably escalate into a major nuclear war. All because his Israeli allies wanted, and his evangelists supporters backed in order to make apocalypse happen and 'make Jesus come back'.

Trump is serving as the next iteration of the awakening of many, many now as well as the deception that is needed to be the catalyst to other many, many now who need another good slap in the face in order to wake up! That's why I've openly supporting Trump from the very beginning.

A liberal NY billionaire acting as a conservative president backed by fundamentalist evangelists who want to effect a major nuclear war somewhere so that 'Jesus can came back and make them ascend'. All the while him throwing 3 trillion to corporations backing him...

...

The only awakening which such lying manipulators serve is to teach the spiritual seeker not to believe in lies and deceit. I very much believe that majority of seekers pass through such a stage in which they believe and empower lying sociopaths who claim to be 'the good guys'.

Pushing for war with Iran? Got evidence of that? Also; I think many seekers are too rigid and ideological when it comes to reality. Pragmatism, prudence are important virtues in the physical world. Many of us forget that. Trump is not an ideal; it is a tool and useful one, right here, right now. Is it perfect? No. But that's not the point. It's just one piece in an infinitude of pieces of one chain.

I do not deny your argument; actually I agree with you. But I would like to invite you to the perspective that spiritual absolutism is yet another ideology! Rome wasn't built in a day

[Plenum]

Mod Note: posts were split into a new thread.

The 4d Transition and Technological Tools
https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=18724

[Nau7ik]

I think this topic is biased and doesn’t belong in “strictly Law of One.” It belongs in discussion of political affairs, wherein we can disagree. This is attempting to interpret the Law of One in a biased fashion to support political beliefs.

[confusedseeker]

Our precious free will is being sacrificed everyday, and it's not because of Donald Trump or his followers. I'll leave it at that. I would think this would be rather clear to people in this forum, who value Free Will as Ra mentions over and over.