Can meditation cause harm?

[redchartreuse]

LoO philosophy suggests that "meditation" is the end-all-be-all tool for spiritual growth, and while the psychological benefits of meditation in general have been clearly shown, there is also a growing body of research demonstrating that certain kinds of meditations, in certain kinds of people, can actually have detrimental effects.

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

Unless I missed something somewhere, I can't think of a single example throughout the entire L/L transcript library where any kind of caveat or cautionary word was given regarding meditation.  Surely, beings millions of years more advanced than us would be aware of a potential downside to meditation.  

And yet, it has even become a running joke in LOO community that "meditate, meditate, and meditate some more" seems to be the answer to all of our troubles.

What gives?

[Cainite]

Prana may give access to power and higher consciousness and if the person doesn't know what he's doing, that power can damage him.
Guidance that provides him/her with a good foundation could help.

I think we're kinda limited.. in terms of what kind of magic we could practice without going nuts.

[redchartreuse]

Prana may give access to power and higher consciousness and if the person doesn't know what he's doing, that power can damage him.
Guidance that provides him/her with a good foundation could help.

I think we're kinda limited.. in terms of what kind of magic we could practice without going nuts.

I would tend to agree with your observations here. Still, that leaves me wondering why Ra and/or Q'uo would neglect to mention this. (Again, maybe I missed something somewhere as it is a massive body of information to sift through.)

[AnthroHeart]

Personally, I find too much Light entering my 3rd eye to be disorienting. It causes some nausea, headache, and dizziness.
It's rather unpleasant. I have to close down my upper chakras sometimes.

Meditation sometimes opens them, but in a pleasant way. I've never gone into meditation when I had too much Light though.

[redchartreuse]

Personally, I find too much Light entering my 3rd eye to be disorienting. It causes some nausea, headache, and dizziness.
It's rather unpleasant. I have to close down my upper chakras sometimes.

Meditation sometimes opens them, but in a pleasant way. I've never gone into meditation when I had too much Light though.

Yes, I've experienced those disconcerting side effects as well, IGW.  There have been times when my attempts at consciously drawing in more light has resulted in a kind of "high" which was followed by a sort of "hangover" where I ended up feeling at an even lower vibration then when I started. Personally, I've found it much more effective and sustainable to simply go about my "daily round of activities" while attempting to incrementally increase my vibrations.

It's confounding to me that Ra/Q'uo don't appear to demonstrate any concern for the possible ill-effects of these exercises when performed by sensitive people.  Or even to acknowledge that they exist.

[ada]

You will have to define harm I feel, and I'm not one qualified to answer that.

However I think the misconception is that meditation only provides good/positive, I think that we "sort of" are always in a meditative stated, a thought state, however most times due to distractions the inner meditative work goes unnoticed and so when one actually fully dives into a meditation those workings (negative and positive) may show, and if one is not ready it may cause more harm than good, I think.
But again, it is the same work which goes on and on until confronted, so there really is no running away from yourself. When you close your eyes, you can less associate and distort the work and perhaps heal more effectively.

I once had such a "harmful" meditation experience, I was meditating laying down and using a crystal. After a while of inner dialog, silence, dialog etc. I came to a certain balance of thought/belief and then I started receiving positive messages and (what felt to me) positive confirmations why meditation is good. It was almost blissful, I think my eyes were tearing a bit. I felt the need to share this information, I proceeded to open my eyes and I saw like a thin light hover above me and dissipate into the air. (I was kinda entranced so might have imagined)
Then I felt that I should stop there, almost like the crystal or the energy was telling me not to try and go deeper. However I did close my eyes and try to meditate once more, what I received afterwards was negative messages that to this day prevented me from sharing the information I received at the beginning. Sort of like the positive was balances by the negative. And it kind of felt harmful to me at the time, but it was a necessary lesson I think.

[kristina]

LoO philosophy suggests that "meditation" is the end-all-be-all tool for spiritual growth, and while the psychological benefits of meditation in general have been clearly shown, there is also a growing body of research demonstrating that certain kinds of meditations, in certain kinds of people, can actually have detrimental effects.

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

Unless I missed something somewhere, I can't think of a single example throughout the entire L/L transcript library where any kind of caveat or cautionary word was given regarding meditation.  Surely, beings millions of years more advanced than us would be aware of a potential downside to meditation.  

And yet, it has even become a running joke in LOO community that "meditate, meditate, and meditate some more" seems to be the answer to all of our troubles.

What gives?

Spiritual sickness...the Kundalini Effect

[speedforce131]

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

It's not the meditation per se but it is the beliefs surrounding the meditator. Erroneous, non-practical beliefs can trigger psychosis and even a meditation session itself can cause an episode. I've suffered from psychosis and during the time I had it, I read up on a lot of stories hoping to find some success stories. I read one of a guy who went to Asia to meditate with the monks. For no reason the guy had an episode and he had to be taken to get medical help. It was his 2nd time and they got him on some anti-psychotics.

Still, that leaves me wondering why Ra and/or Q'uo would neglect to mention this.

I actually tried to bring this up with the guys who run the L/L Research Twitter account. I think my concerns were passed over. I read of instances where the channelers were suffering from psychosis but none of the Confederation entities told them what was happening. I think in one session, they even asked about depression and the Confederation entity only answered the *spiritual* portion of the experience but not the physical. It is my understanding then that Confederation entities do not comment on the physical unless specifically asked. I think that they're not there to teach us about our own physical existence as that's up to us to find out. Even if channeling and other psychic work CAUSES these conditions.

Personally, I find too much Light entering my 3rd eye to be disorienting. It causes some nausea, headache, and dizziness.
It's rather unpleasant. I have to close down my upper chakras sometimes.

I personally love it. It is a bit disorienting to me but it doesn't cause nausea or headache but there is a slight dizziness. It actually makes me cry a little bit because it's so overwhelming. I consciously channel this energy when I'm listening to certain music. You can literally tap into the passion of the performer and let the music resonate within you.

[redchartreuse]

You will have to define harm I feel, and I'm not one qualified to answer that.

Yes, it's somewhat nebulous. Though I feel that a broad working definition of "unwanted or unintended effects". The most common thing I see cited in the literature is anxiety, though as I mentioned earlier full-blown psychosis has been documented to occur. I think it's safe to say that a psychotic episode is quite unlike the "calming, peaceful, balancing" effects of meditation that are so often touted as universal benefits.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Personally, I find too much Light entering my 3rd eye to be disorienting. It causes some nausea, headache, and dizziness.
It's rather unpleasant. I have to close down my upper chakras sometimes.

Meditation sometimes opens them, but in a pleasant way. I've never gone into meditation when I had too much Light though.

Yes, I've experienced those disconcerting side effects as well, IGW.  There have been times when my attempts at consciously drawing in more light has resulted in a kind of "high" which was followed by a sort of "hangover" where I ended up feeling at an even lower vibration then when I started.  Personally, I've found it much more effective and sustainable to simply go about my "daily round of activities" while attempting to incrementally increase my vibrations.

It's confounding to me that Ra/Q'uo don't appear to demonstrate any concern for the possible ill-effects of these exercises when performed by sensitive people.  Or even to acknowledge that they exist.

I do agree with you that it's a bit odd that while there are constant suggestions to meditate with very little suggestion as to how to do so. But perhaps the vagueness of their suggestion is also why there aren't any cautions. For instance, when they say meditate, they don't specify the "drawing in more light" technique that you had issues with. I think the suggestion to meditate is more about finding something that does work for you rather than attaching to any specific idea of exactly what meditation is. Though more guidance and caution would be very helpful.

An example of harm from meditation that comes to my mind is a friend of mine who suffered from intense anxiety. I suggested meditation, as it has always helped with my anxiety, though I didn't give much instruction. Apparently the meditation just amplified the anxiety and sent her into a panic attack. Her therapist said that meditation can sometimes trigger that sort of response in anxious people.

[Cyan]

Yes though its rare. When I was learning healing we were counceled against causing people to advance too rapidly and Ra seems to agree, too rapid advance or giving the sceptre of magic power too soon is deeply detremental, so perhaps that is their opinion of teaching someone meditation who does not yet grasp the needle on their own. I've personaly seen cases where learning healing and meditatin have made people much much more hostile to others so I would attest that it can do so.

[AnthroHeart]

Advancing too rapidly moves you closer to source. Hence it gets spiritually hotter and your shadows become sharper. It can overload the chakras if you approach Creator too quickly.

[redchartreuse]

It's not the meditation per se but it is the beliefs surrounding the meditator. Erroneous, non-practical beliefs can trigger psychosis and even a meditation session itself can cause an episode.

In one of the more recent articles I was reading, the researchers found that having strong religious beliefs was associated with a *lower* incidence of harmful effects.  I found this surprising since certain versions of religious belief (particularly Christianity) actually warn practitioners against doing any kind of meditation, claiming that it opens the mind up to "evil" influences and/or serves as a kind of Trojan horse for "false" spiritual beliefs (they seem to be particularly concerned about Buddhism).

I've suffered from psychosis and during the time I had it, I read up on a lot of stories hoping to find some success stories. I read one of a guy who went to Asia to meditate with the monks. For no reason the guy had an episode and he had to be taken to get medical help. It was his 2nd time and they got him on some anti-psychotics.

Sorry to hear you went through that!  I haven't experienced it directly myself, but I did get pretty up close and personal with psychosis when a good friend of mine who was living with me at the time had an extended paranoid episode.  Unfortunately, I became the primary target of the paranoia and he came to be convinced that I was spearheading a conspiracy among our mutual friends to have him committed to a mental institution, and had set up surveillance equipment all around the house in order to gather evidence.

It was quite a frightening experience (I'm sure for him as well) but even worse that he continued to harass me and make accusations against me for no less than 10 years following the episode, even going so far as to try to steal my identity.  Failing every effort to be kind and understanding, I finally had to threaten him in order for him to leave me alone.  I guess in the end, he got what he wanted/needed in terms of having to frame me as the "bad guy" in the situation.

Actually, reflecting upon the experience I think that may have been the first time I really started to question the philosophy of "accepting" everything and everyone.  I mean, I can "accept" that my friend was having a psychotic episode.  But simply rolling over and allowing him to persist in his delusions and relentless attacks, while simply "wishing him well" would have been disastrous for everybody.  

I hope he's finally found some real help.

I actually tried to bring this up with the guys who run the L/L Research Twitter account. I think my concerns were passed over. I read of instances where the channelers were suffering from psychosis but none of the Confederation entities told them what was happening. I think in one session, they even asked about depression and the Confederation entity only answered the *spiritual* portion of the experience but not the physical. It is my understanding then that Confederation entities do not comment on the physical unless specifically asked. I think that they're not there to teach us about our own physical existence as that's up to us to find out. Even if channeling and other psychic work CAUSES these conditions.

Can't say I'm surprised to hear that.  In a previous incarnation on this forum, my efforts to discuss what happened with Don were not met with much acceptance.

[speedforce131]

I do agree with you that it's a bit odd that while there are constant suggestions to meditate with very little suggestion as to how to do so. But perhaps the vagueness of their suggestion is also why there aren't any cautions. For instance, when they say meditate, they don't specify the "drawing in more light" technique that you had issues with. I think the suggestion to meditate is more about finding something that does work for you rather than attaching to any specific idea of exactly what meditation is. Though more guidance and caution would be very helpful.

I remember reading a channeling session on this subject. Meditation can be anything. It is the meditator that chooses how they want to meditate. Anything that can allow you to enter into a silence and contemplation is meditating. I can listen to music and meditate if that'll help me think to myself & sort out the thought processes.

[redchartreuse]

I do agree with you that it's a bit odd that while there are constant suggestions to meditate with very little suggestion as to how to do so.

Yes, it kind of reminds me of the constant suggestions attributed to Jesus in the Bible to "forgive" without any clear instruction about how to go about doing that. I mean, I'd love to just snap my fingers and forgive everything and everyone, but in practice I tend to not find forgiveness unless or until I come to a point where I have witnessed something positive to have come from the whole ordeal.

Though for me, it also kind of dovetails with something I am discussing in another thread... I find it very difficult to forgive people when operating under the assumption that they have "chosen" to say or do whatever. Yet when I acknowledge that they were likely acting unconsciously at the behest of programming or other influences, it becomes much easier for me.

But perhaps the vagueness of their suggestion is also why there aren't any cautions. For instance, when they say meditate, they don't specify the "drawing in more light" technique that you had issues with. I think the suggestion to meditate is more about finding something that does work for you rather than attaching to any specific idea of exactly what meditation is. Though more guidance and caution would be very helpful.

For me, I've found it most helpful to integrate "meditation" with the performance of my "daily round of activities"... those mundane activities like cleaning my body or my home, cooking or doing chores, etc., while maintaining the awareness that these seemingly mundane activities on the physical plane are actually quite profound symbols for things that are occurring on the spiritual plane.

It's sort of like the more I attempt to get some "profound" result, the less effective I am.

An example of harm from meditation that comes to my mind is a friend of mine who suffered from intense anxiety. I suggested meditation, as it has always helped with my anxiety, though I didn't give much instruction. Apparently the meditation just amplified the anxiety and sent her into a panic attack. Her therapist said that meditation can sometimes trigger that sort of response in anxious people.

Yes, that appears to be a fairly commonly reported side effect. Some years ago, I was experiencing a lot of anxiety, and found that trying to meditate only made it worse. However, I also persisted in my own internal investigations of the phenomenon and found that what I was feeling as anxiety was some sort of physiological process that occurred as a result of the emergence of troubling "memories" when I tried to meditate. Specifically, these revolved around an "abduction" experience, as well as a one-off time I may have been molested as a child. I'm not exactly sure how I got through it, but eventually I came to the space where it wasn't really important to me anymore whether or not those things "really" happened, and that's when the anxious feelings finally dissipated.

Anyhow, the long and the short of it is that there seems to be a lot more nuance to the whole process than simply meditate, meditate, and meditate some more.

[Cyclops]

LoO philosophy suggests that "meditation" is the end-all-be-all tool for spiritual growth, and while the psychological benefits of meditation in general have been clearly shown, there is also a growing body of research demonstrating that certain kinds of meditations, in certain kinds of people, can actually have detrimental effects.

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

Unless I missed something somewhere, I can't think of a single example throughout the entire L/L transcript library where any kind of caveat or cautionary word was given regarding meditation.  Surely, beings millions of years more advanced than us would be aware of a potential downside to meditation.  

And yet, it has even become a running joke in LOO community that "meditate, meditate, and meditate some more" seems to be the answer to all of our troubles.

What gives?

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._0809.aspx

There are those things which enrich and deepen an entity’s ability to work with catalyst, and predictably we feel that this bliss begins with the silence. Entering into silence is an unnatural decision to the earth-bound entity. There is a tremendous amount of letting go implicit in the training of the self to enter into the silence and to release the contents of the intellectual mind. We heartily recommend this entering into the silence upon a daily basis, because it is a kind of training that is like the exercise of the body that strengthens the muscles.

There are improper exercises that are too strenuous for the body, in that instead of building up the body, they break the body down. It is entirely possible to break the self down through an unwise and excessive use of silence. There are few entities who can work with silence all day, every day, for the change rate is dependent upon the amount of time spent in silence. Thusly, we suggest a moderate amount of meditation, producing a moderate rate of change in which the self is not drowned in mind, body and spirit-altering catalyst but rather is able to keep the nose above the water of chaos that describes the nature of change in process.

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._0308.aspx

We feel with the instrument, the danger to the integrated personality of forcing the self to live with the intensity necessary to be with the Creator, it is, or could be, dangerous enough to the integrated self that the self moves apart and the mental balance is lost.

The request we make to avoid excessive periods of meditation is simply that we do not wish the accelerated process of change involved in meditation to disturb the seeker past its limits of endurance. If the entity experiences the difficulties in personality, other types of meditation, such as the working in the soup kitchen and, in short, any activity which brings forward a feeling of unity with the Creator but is active, is recommended until the self can once again tolerate the degree of change brought on by meditation.

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._1015.aspx

If one is not careful one can create one’s own spiritual burnout. We suggest that the meditations be limited to perhaps no more than an hour per day, perhaps no more than a half hour at any one sitting. This is due to the fact that meditation is a very powerful tool, and the rate of change needs to be slow enough that the personality of your consciousness may have time to absorb knowledge and inspiration that it receives and make its choices in a timely and deliberate manner.

There is much on meditation, I vaguely remember the advice of starting small, being consistent, and overtime only when you gained a good foundation can you increase the time you spend in meditation safely.

[Nau7ik]

Yes, the dangers of meditation are not often discussed. There are indeed dangers. I don’t think Q’uo or Ra went into it much because there was not much danger to the group in meditation because they were well balanced in mind and they also invoked protection each time.

There are rituals that can help balance our being so that we are more protected than we would be normally. L/L used the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. This ritual invoked the four Archangels at the four quarters and banishes the place of working with geometric pentagrams drawn in the air. (And a forceful ritual movement which penetrates the Pentagram and “banishes“.)

That ritual is pretty safe and highly effective. It will work on the environment, purifying it ever more and also on your being balancing it ever more.
The lesser forms of the LBRP are the Qabalistic Cross or the Calyx, as it’s called by some Orders. The QC vibrates a portion of the Lord’s Prayer in Hebrew and invokes the Middle Pillar within our being which denotes the balance of Mercy and Power (Ve-Gedulah And Ve-Geburah.)

Although I really don’t think there’s much danger in simply resting in the silence or doing the balancing exercise described by Ra. It’s when we are striving for the higher levels that potentially danger could come to us. We can mitigate the danger by the diligent work on the balancing and unblocking of the lower triad of chakras.
Even so, using one of these rituals would probably help to ease the mind. To help one feel safe and protected. One can also pray and set their intentions.

If one is concerned about mental illness, I would say that meditation can help one get to the root of the mental illness and to begin healing it by knowing it and understanding it. Others may be more knowledgeable to talk about this than I am though.

[redchartreuse]

LoO philosophy suggests that "meditation" is the end-all-be-all tool for spiritual growth, and while the psychological benefits of meditation in general have been clearly shown, there is also a growing body of research demonstrating that certain kinds of meditations, in certain kinds of people, can actually have detrimental effects.

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

Unless I missed something somewhere, I can't think of a single example throughout the entire L/L transcript library where any kind of caveat or cautionary word was given regarding meditation.  Surely, beings millions of years more advanced than us would be aware of a potential downside to meditation.  

And yet, it has even become a running joke in LOO community that "meditate, meditate, and meditate some more" seems to be the answer to all of our troubles.

What gives?

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._0809.aspx

There are those things which enrich and deepen an entity’s ability to work with catalyst, and predictably we feel that this bliss begins with the silence. Entering into silence is an unnatural decision to the earth-bound entity. There is a tremendous amount of letting go implicit in the training of the self to enter into the silence and to release the contents of the intellectual mind. We heartily recommend this entering into the silence upon a daily basis, because it is a kind of training that is like the exercise of the body that strengthens the muscles.

There are improper exercises that are too strenuous for the body, in that instead of building up the body, they break the body down. It is entirely possible to break the self down through an unwise and excessive use of silence. There are few entities who can work with silence all day, every day, for the change rate is dependent upon the amount of time spent in silence. Thusly, we suggest a moderate amount of meditation, producing a moderate rate of change in which the self is not drowned in mind, body and spirit-altering catalyst but rather is able to keep the nose above the water of chaos that describes the nature of change in process.

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._0308.aspx

We feel with the instrument, the danger to the integrated personality of forcing the self to live with the intensity necessary to be with the Creator, it is, or could be, dangerous enough to the integrated self that the self moves apart and the mental balance is lost.

The request we make to avoid excessive periods of meditation is simply that we do not wish the accelerated process of change involved in meditation to disturb the seeker past its limits of endurance. If the entity experiences the difficulties in personality, other types of meditation, such as the working in the soup kitchen and, in short, any activity which brings forward a feeling of unity with the Creator but is active, is recommended until the self can once again tolerate the degree of change brought on by meditation.

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/i..._1015.aspx

If one is not careful one can create one’s own spiritual burnout. We suggest that the meditations be limited to perhaps no more than an hour per day, perhaps no more than a half hour at any one sitting. This is due to the fact that meditation is a very powerful tool, and the rate of change needs to be slow enough that the personality of your consciousness may have time to absorb knowledge and inspiration that it receives and make its choices in a timely and deliberate manner.

There is much on meditation, I vaguely remember the advice of starting small, being consistent, and overtime only when you gained a good foundation can you increase the time you spend in meditation safely.

Thanks for digging those up!

[flofrog]

For me, having a small but really felt prayer of gratitude towards Creator is a nice short way to start meditation.

A few years ago I did an initiation to kriya yoga and the few exercices to do before meditating are short but very balancing. The initiation process takes a bit of a time, about a year, as you study the writings of Paramhansa Yogananda, but I loved his writings so it seemed normal to decide to get through the initiation. There is a lot of kindness in Yogananda’s works very similar to the kindness you feel from reading Ra.

[Foha]

Have you considered trying to be the devil's advocate? I bet it pays really well

[TheJoan]

LoO philosophy suggests that "meditation" is the end-all-be-all tool for spiritual growth, and while the psychological benefits of meditation in general have been clearly shown, there is also a growing body of research demonstrating that certain kinds of meditations, in certain kinds of people, can actually have detrimental effects.

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

Unless I missed something somewhere, I can't think of a single example throughout the entire L/L transcript library where any kind of caveat or cautionary word was given regarding meditation.  Surely, beings millions of years more advanced than us would be aware of a potential downside to meditation.  

And yet, it has even become a running joke in LOO community that "meditate, meditate, and meditate some more" seems to be the answer to all of our troubles.

What gives?

Who are those people suffering?

[loostudent]

In one of the more recent articles I was reading, the researchers found that having strong religious beliefs was associated with a *lower* incidence of harmful effects. I found this surprising since certain versions of religious belief (particularly Christianity) actually warn practitioners against doing any kind of meditation, claiming that it opens the mind up to "evil" influences and/or serves as a kind of Trojan horse for "false" spiritual beliefs (they seem to be particularly concerned about Buddhism).

This is the official standpoint of the Catholic Church:

The majority of the great religions which have sought union with God in prayer have also pointed out ways to achieve it. Just as "the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions," neither should these ways be rejected out of hand simply because they are not Christian. On the contrary, one can take from them what is useful so long as the Christian conception of prayer, its logic and requirements are never obscured.

(Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith)

It's not against meditation per se. It's against accepting some beliefs that could be connected with some meditation methods. Beliefs that are incompatible with teachings of Jesus.

[kristina]

I do agree with you that it's a bit odd that while there are constant suggestions to meditate with very little suggestion as to how to do so. But perhaps the vagueness of their suggestion is also why there aren't any cautions. For instance, when they say meditate, they don't specify the "drawing in more light" technique that you had issues with. I think the suggestion to meditate is more about finding something that does work for you rather than attaching to any specific idea of exactly what meditation is. Though more guidance and caution would be very helpful.

I remember reading a channeling session on this subject. Meditation can be anything. It is the meditator that chooses how they want to meditate. Anything that can allow you to enter into a silence and contemplation is meditating. I can listen to music and meditate if that'll help me think to myself & sort out the thought processes.

Absolutely Speedforce. When beginning anything I think it wise to use a little caution or at least a balanced overview. I would never attempt to get into better shape physically by spending 3 hours lifting weights. Simply because my body cannot endure that type of stress. First, I have to prepare my body to be able to do that type of strenuous exercise. Same with meditation. It wouldn't be wise for a person who is just beginning, to do a Kundalini meditation perhaps something more light to begin like what you said, contemplation and maybe a 10 minute meditation. Meditation can change our frequencies, light has it's own and to overwhelm the energetic system with more light than one can handle overloads their system and can cause some of these symptoms. We are doing nothing more than conditioning a part of ourselves to take in more light and activate thoses sleepy parts of the self. We can't do that all at once.