(05-15-2019, 02:23 PM)Cainite Wrote: Prana may give access to power and higher consciousness and if the person doesn't know what he's doing, that power can damage him.
Guidance that provides him/her with a good foundation could help.

I think we're kinda limited.. in terms of what kind of magic we could practice without going nuts.

(05-15-2019, 02:27 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Personally, I find too much Light entering my 3rd eye to be disorienting. It causes some nausea, headache, and dizziness.
It's rather unpleasant. I have to close down my upper chakras sometimes.

Meditation sometimes opens them, but in a pleasant way. I've never gone into meditation when I had too much Light though.

(05-15-2019, 02:00 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: LoO philosophy suggests that "meditation" is the end-all-be-all tool for spiritual growth, and while the psychological benefits of meditation in general have been clearly shown, there is also a growing body of research demonstrating that certain kinds of meditations, in certain kinds of people, can actually have detrimental effects.

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

Unless I missed something somewhere, I can't think of a single example throughout the entire L/L transcript library where any kind of caveat or cautionary word was given regarding meditation.  Surely, beings millions of years more advanced than us would be aware of a potential downside to meditation.  

And yet, it has even become a running joke in LOO community that "meditate, meditate, and meditate some more" seems to be the answer to all of our troubles.

What gives?

(05-15-2019, 02:00 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

(05-15-2019, 02:26 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: Still, that leaves me wondering why Ra and/or Q'uo would neglect to mention this.

(05-15-2019, 02:27 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Personally, I find too much Light entering my 3rd eye to be disorienting. It causes some nausea, headache, and dizziness.
It's rather unpleasant. I have to close down my upper chakras sometimes.

(05-15-2019, 03:25 PM)blossom Wrote: You will have to define harm I feel, and I'm not one qualified to answer that.

(05-15-2019, 02:33 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:

(05-15-2019, 02:27 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Personally, I find too much Light entering my 3rd eye to be disorienting. It causes some nausea, headache, and dizziness.
It's rather unpleasant. I have to close down my upper chakras sometimes.

Meditation sometimes opens them, but in a pleasant way. I've never gone into meditation when I had too much Light though.

Yes, I've experienced those disconcerting side effects as well, IGW.  There have been times when my attempts at consciously drawing in more light has resulted in a kind of "high" which was followed by a sort of "hangover" where I ended up feeling at an even lower vibration then when I started.  Personally, I've found it much more effective and sustainable to simply go about my "daily round of activities" while attempting to incrementally increase my vibrations.

It's confounding to me that Ra/Q'uo don't appear to demonstrate any concern for the possible ill-effects of these exercises when performed by sensitive people.  Or even to acknowledge that they exist.

(05-15-2019, 03:41 PM)speedforce131 Wrote: It's not the meditation per se but it is the beliefs surrounding the meditator. Erroneous, non-practical beliefs can trigger psychosis and even a meditation session itself can cause an episode.

Quote:I've suffered from psychosis and during the time I had it, I read up on a lot of stories hoping to find some success stories. I read one of a guy who went to Asia to meditate with the monks. For no reason the guy had an episode and he had to be taken to get medical help. It was his 2nd time and they got him on some anti-psychotics.

Quote:I actually tried to bring this up with the guys who run the L/L Research Twitter account. I think my concerns were passed over. I read of instances where the channelers were suffering from psychosis but none of the Confederation entities told them what was happening. I think in one session, they even asked about depression and the Confederation entity only answered the *spiritual* portion of the experience but not the physical. It is my understanding then that Confederation entities do not comment on the physical unless specifically asked. I think that they're not there to teach us about our own physical existence as that's up to us to find out. Even if channeling and other psychic work CAUSES these conditions.

(05-15-2019, 03:57 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: I do agree with you that it's a bit odd that while there are constant suggestions to meditate with very little suggestion as to how to do so. But perhaps the vagueness of their suggestion is also why there aren't any cautions. For instance, when they say meditate, they don't specify the "drawing in more light" technique that you had issues with. I think the suggestion to meditate is more about finding something that does work for you rather than attaching to any specific idea of exactly what meditation is. Though more guidance and caution would be very helpful.

(05-15-2019, 03:57 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: I do agree with you that it's a bit odd that while there are constant suggestions to meditate with very little suggestion as to how to do so.

Quote:But perhaps the vagueness of their suggestion is also why there aren't any cautions. For instance, when they say meditate, they don't specify the "drawing in more light" technique that you had issues with. I think the suggestion to meditate is more about finding something that does work for you rather than attaching to any specific idea of exactly what meditation is. Though more guidance and caution would be very helpful.

Quote:An example of harm from meditation that comes to my mind is a friend of mine who suffered from intense anxiety. I suggested meditation, as it has always helped with my anxiety, though I didn't give much instruction. Apparently the meditation just amplified the anxiety and sent her into a panic attack. Her therapist said that meditation can sometimes trigger that sort of response in anxious people.

(05-15-2019, 02:00 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: LoO philosophy suggests that "meditation" is the end-all-be-all tool for spiritual growth, and while the psychological benefits of meditation in general have been clearly shown, there is also a growing body of research demonstrating that certain kinds of meditations, in certain kinds of people, can actually have detrimental effects.

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

Unless I missed something somewhere, I can't think of a single example throughout the entire L/L transcript library where any kind of caveat or cautionary word was given regarding meditation.  Surely, beings millions of years more advanced than us would be aware of a potential downside to meditation.  

And yet, it has even become a running joke in LOO community that "meditate, meditate, and meditate some more" seems to be the answer to all of our troubles.

What gives?

Quote:There are those things which enrich and deepen an entity’s ability to work with catalyst, and predictably we feel that this bliss begins with the silence. Entering into silence is an unnatural decision to the earth-bound entity. There is a tremendous amount of letting go implicit in the training of the self to enter into the silence and to release the contents of the intellectual mind. We heartily recommend this entering into the silence upon a daily basis, because it is a kind of training that is like the exercise of the body that strengthens the muscles.

There are improper exercises that are too strenuous for the body, in that instead of building up the body, they break the body down. It is entirely possible to break the self down through an unwise and excessive use of silence. There are few entities who can work with silence all day, every day, for the change rate is dependent upon the amount of time spent in silence. Thusly, we suggest a moderate amount of meditation, producing a moderate rate of change in which the self is not drowned in mind, body and spirit-altering catalyst but rather is able to keep the nose above the water of chaos that describes the nature of change in process.

Quote:We feel with the instrument, the danger to the integrated personality of forcing the self to live with the intensity necessary to be with the Creator, it is, or could be, dangerous enough to the integrated self that the self moves apart and the mental balance is lost.

The request we make to avoid excessive periods of meditation is simply that we do not wish the accelerated process of change involved in meditation to disturb the seeker past its limits of endurance. If the entity experiences the difficulties in personality, other types of meditation, such as the working in the soup kitchen and, in short, any activity which brings forward a feeling of unity with the Creator but is active, is recommended until the self can once again tolerate the degree of change brought on by meditation.

Quote:If one is not careful one can create one’s own spiritual burnout. We suggest that the meditations be limited to perhaps no more than an hour per day, perhaps no more than a half hour at any one sitting. This is due to the fact that meditation is a very powerful tool, and the rate of change needs to be slow enough that the personality of your consciousness may have time to absorb knowledge and inspiration that it receives and make its choices in a timely and deliberate manner.

(05-16-2019, 03:42 PM)Cyclops Wrote:

(05-15-2019, 02:00 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: LoO philosophy suggests that "meditation" is the end-all-be-all tool for spiritual growth, and while the psychological benefits of meditation in general have been clearly shown, there is also a growing body of research demonstrating that certain kinds of meditations, in certain kinds of people, can actually have detrimental effects.

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

Unless I missed something somewhere, I can't think of a single example throughout the entire L/L transcript library where any kind of caveat or cautionary word was given regarding meditation.  Surely, beings millions of years more advanced than us would be aware of a potential downside to meditation.  

And yet, it has even become a running joke in LOO community that "meditate, meditate, and meditate some more" seems to be the answer to all of our troubles.

What gives?

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2002/2002_0809.aspx

Quote:There are those things which enrich and deepen an entity’s ability to work with catalyst, and predictably we feel that this bliss begins with the silence. Entering into silence is an unnatural decision to the earth-bound entity. There is a tremendous amount of letting go implicit in the training of the self to enter into the silence and to release the contents of the intellectual mind. We heartily recommend this entering into the silence upon a daily basis, because it is a kind of training that is like the exercise of the body that strengthens the muscles.

There are improper exercises that are too strenuous for the body, in that instead of building up the body, they break the body down. It is entirely possible to break the self down through an unwise and excessive use of silence. There are few entities who can work with silence all day, every day, for the change rate is dependent upon the amount of time spent in silence. Thusly, we suggest a moderate amount of meditation, producing a moderate rate of change in which the self is not drowned in mind, body and spirit-altering catalyst but rather is able to keep the nose above the water of chaos that describes the nature of change in process.

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1989/1989_0308.aspx

Quote:We feel with the instrument, the danger to the integrated personality of forcing the self to live with the intensity necessary to be with the Creator, it is, or could be, dangerous enough to the integrated self that the self moves apart and the mental balance is lost.

The request we make to avoid excessive periods of meditation is simply that we do not wish the accelerated process of change involved in meditation to disturb the seeker past its limits of endurance. If the entity experiences the difficulties in personality, other types of meditation, such as the working in the soup kitchen and, in short, any activity which brings forward a feeling of unity with the Creator but is active, is recommended until the self can once again tolerate the degree of change brought on by meditation.

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1989/1989_1015.aspx

Quote:If one is not careful one can create one’s own spiritual burnout. We suggest that the meditations be limited to perhaps no more than an hour per day, perhaps no more than a half hour at any one sitting. This is due to the fact that meditation is a very powerful tool, and the rate of change needs to be slow enough that the personality of your consciousness may have time to absorb knowledge and inspiration that it receives and make its choices in a timely and deliberate manner.

There is much on meditation, I vaguely remember the advice of starting small, being consistent, and overtime only when you gained a good foundation can you increase the time you spend in meditation safely.

(05-15-2019, 02:00 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: LoO philosophy suggests that "meditation" is the end-all-be-all tool for spiritual growth, and while the psychological benefits of meditation in general have been clearly shown, there is also a growing body of research demonstrating that certain kinds of meditations, in certain kinds of people, can actually have detrimental effects.

One of the most concerning example would be the triggering of psychosis in people suffering from certain kinds of mental illness.

Unless I missed something somewhere, I can't think of a single example throughout the entire L/L transcript library where any kind of caveat or cautionary word was given regarding meditation.  Surely, beings millions of years more advanced than us would be aware of a potential downside to meditation.  

And yet, it has even become a running joke in LOO community that "meditate, meditate, and meditate some more" seems to be the answer to all of our troubles.

What gives?

(05-15-2019, 04:20 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: In one of the more recent articles I was reading, the researchers found that having strong religious beliefs was associated with a *lower* incidence of harmful effects. I found this surprising since certain versions of religious belief (particularly Christianity) actually warn practitioners against doing any kind of meditation, claiming that it opens the mind up to "evil" influences and/or serves as a kind of Trojan horse for "false" spiritual beliefs (they seem to be particularly concerned about Buddhism).

Quote:The majority of the great religions which have sought union with God in prayer have also pointed out ways to achieve it. Just as "the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions," neither should these ways be rejected out of hand simply because they are not Christian. On the contrary, one can take from them what is useful so long as the Christian conception of prayer, its logic and requirements are never obscured.

(Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith)

(05-15-2019, 04:20 PM)speedforce131 Wrote:

(05-15-2019, 03:57 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: I do agree with you that it's a bit odd that while there are constant suggestions to meditate with very little suggestion as to how to do so. But perhaps the vagueness of their suggestion is also why there aren't any cautions. For instance, when they say meditate, they don't specify the "drawing in more light" technique that you had issues with. I think the suggestion to meditate is more about finding something that does work for you rather than attaching to any specific idea of exactly what meditation is. Though more guidance and caution would be very helpful.

I remember reading a channeling session on this subject. Meditation can be anything. It is the meditator that chooses how they want to meditate. Anything that can allow you to enter into a silence and contemplation is meditating. I can listen to music and meditate if that'll help me think to myself & sort out the thought processes.