A story I didn't want to share.

[Relax]

hey Glow - from hours of reading - there are years of threads where people purposely try to mess with or hurt others - or have a strange or confused understanding of LOO... or are so angry they contaminate others.

It looks like you can get help here - but I also see interactions and discussions that are abusive - some even sickening
seems it can be a place where a seeker could feel terribly alone - and also - who knows what someone could privately pm them?

an open hearted but seriously wounded person would be exactly the combination for successful psychological or psychic attack

I wanted to share this place with friends- but it's a bit embarrassing how much snideness is here - and parts of it feel dangerous...
of course you can just send love to the negative 'offers' and back away... which I guess is why so many people leave...
but that's a pity ....such a waste

Bring 4th seems equal parts sanctuary - minefield

I agree with CA's friend that it seems there are big 'duty of care' issues (to make sure people don't actively hurt others) but moderators don't intervene and instead let slide

perhaps - because Don himself committed suicide - L/L Research & mods have a blind spot about harm minimisation?
and as they view all that occurs here as 'catalyst' - and avoid 'infringement'..?  

perhaps they need to post an introductory disclaimer for this place

"enter at your own risk"
?

[Glow]

hey Glow - from hours of reading - there are years of threads where people purposely try to mess with or hurt others - or have a strange or confused understanding of LOO... or are so angry they contaminate others.

It looks like you can get help here - but I also see interactions and discussions that are abusive - some even sickening
seems it can be a place where a seeker could feel terribly alone - and also - who knows what someone could privately pm them?

an open hearted but seriously wounded person would be exactly the combination for successful psychological or psychic attack

I wanted to share this place with friends- but it's a bit embarrassing how much snideness is here - and parts of it feel dangerous...
of course you can just send love to the negative 'offers' and back away... which I guess is why so many people leave...
but that's a pity ....such a waste

Bring 4th seems equal parts sanctuary - minefield

I agree with CA's friend that it seems there are big 'duty of care' issues (to make sure people don't actively hurt others) but moderators don't intervene and instead let slide

perhaps - because Don himself committed suicide - L/L Research & mods have a blind spot about harm minimisation?
and as they view all that occurs here as 'catalyst' - and avoid 'infringement'..?   :(

perhaps they need to post an introductory disclaimer for this place

"enter at your own risk"
?

I wonder if those are the threads where I read a few posts in see red flags that it’s people focusing to much on ego so avoid for my own mental health. Now you mention it there has been a decent number of threads right off the bat I know I want no part of.

I wonder has anyone posted to moderators on these threads? It is a volunteer position and it might work better if bullying was reported.

A few high stress threads I have seen people have been giving as bad as they are getting and even I wouldn’t think to intervene if I was a mod because it is ones choice to keep going back to these threads. Just because I’m sensitive and would hate the back and forth doesn’t mean everyone does is my assumption.

I hope if their is such a thing occurring maybe a few of us regular posters could be notified to go in and be a buffer. Often all that is needed is someone to come in calmly and redirect a conversation in a kinder manner but if we the regular posting members aren’t aware of it we can’t really help.

I’m not always around but if someone felt bullied and I was around I would definitely try to defuse things and failing that at least notify a moderator myself. I’m sure others here would too. We may seem like a dysfunctional family but there really is a lot of love here.

I got sort of responded to in an attackative manner recently several times. My perspective was it felt not good, I didn’t really understand why it was happening but I knew it was the attackative persons issues not mine so I chose not to accept the catalyst of their behaviour.

I get that someone more raw in the moment could have been hurt by the same stimulus but since most posters arrive here hurt primed to heal not already healed there is an increased likelihood of such lashing out happening. Perhaps as a collective we have to check in with one another if we see someone being treated roughly. I don’t obviously have the answers just brainstorming but I get the mod teams issues

[One of Love]

Oh my goodness.  I can see there is a lot of confusion in this place.  I didn't expect the personalities here, he really picked carefully what to reveal.

It is interesting how we see things differently.  I'm trying to withhold judgment here, the simple truth is if this community has people claiming others have been suicidal, and others see the same problems he saw, then what's the true statistic there?

I'm glad you see the similarities in our writing!  I call it wrambling, when there's so much to say but not a clue how to get it all out.

You could imagine what our text messages must look like.

I am adamant when I say I get a funny feeling that there's more going on here than meets the eye, the sudden defenses, the quick writeoffs of reasons.

There is something more going on.  I don't know if it's a natural defense towards something you love or if it's just knighting for a place, when someone you love is driven to attempt suicide because of a community and it's philosophy, and that community is very fast to deny everything...

Denial is a tool of manipulation...  There's people here in this loving community who seem to like hurting others.  This is okay to you all because it's a loving place I suppose.

Xise, your quotes are my tools here as much as yours.  You seem to read it one way while I read it the same way I've always read it.  I don't know what that's supposed to mean but that quote is literally the one I'd have used.  I was told people here manipulate the content to fit their own views and agendas, just surprising having the first quote replied to me be taken in a weird context.  I've seen others but having it done towards me is still no less surprising.

Thank you for showing me the search function.  I read every session at that site and am aware of it.  I wish I knew how to search this site though.  The search engine is a little confusing for me.

I will just share my view of that quote.  A positive higher self doesn't mean to me a selfish entity stemming from it is selfless in polarity.  I inferred that the reasoning was that darkness is needed to better grow the light.  Both polarities at their core equal each other, but until that core is reached it would seem wise to still see them both as individuals rather than sides to the same coin.  The heads side and tails side are alone for a reason, not knowing right behind them is their opposite.  I see polarity somewhat differently from this community it would seem.  I see these views also got into his head from his journal.  Calling darkness light is just pretending to me, and is the prime tool darkness uses to confuse the light.  It would seem some of you got hit with that confusion.

Polarity is to me, the pinnacle important detail in maintaining a proper view of the perspectives given.  If light is darkness you create schizophrenic connections, to disassociate the different energy of positive and negative as equal is the same as scolding a child for doing the right thing and punishing them without reason.  Confusing right and wrong seems to be part of the subtle work of polarity.

I'm glad to see you're doing the rounds, please don't take offense in my not accepting your view.  I feel it is not appropriate for me.

Glow I am unnerved that someone in this community inserted that idea into him.  I intend to get some answers from him when I work up the nerve to tell him.  I do not wish to believe this place is anything but a spiritual community, however if that community is causing suicides then there is something wrong.  God knows I don't know what it is, but if this place can be used to hurt others, people deserve to be aware of that over the enticing introduction page to this place.

He described it as dressing up hell to look heavenly.  I'm kind of getting that same image if the nice loving people here do nothing while others hurt others here.  Are you loving if you watch something torment your friend and do nothing?  I don't feel like it.  My friend, someone I love, is being tormented by bad information he picked up from this place.  It is the underlying seed to his suicidal thoughts becoming actions, he recognized that.  He left to get away but the damage was done.

So now, is anyone going to tell me why that's not partly responsible? If the energy put out by this place harms people like that, how is it there fault for not being able to handle purposefully messed up information intended to harm them?  How can a community that hurts people with love say majoritywise that nothing is wrong?

I've already decided once I've found my answers I'll be taking my leave from this place, to be told one thing then presented with another then told nothing is wrong with that.  Well, that's delusional.  And I won't fight those delusions, you may all keep them as I can't make sense of them.  I have an ideal view of the Law of One philosophy and within one day here attempts to change my view of it have occurred.

I see love in the light around me, I see you are me and I see my delusions too.  I don't have answers to mine so I can't help other's with theirs.  All i know is I am blissfully happy and content with MY life.  It is this love that secretly guided me to him that drives me to be here in this place that energy wise feels pale to that love.  How he unlocked that love in me, how he showed me how to see it, be it, exist within it.

True love guides me, a love beneath space and above time.  I think.  In a way.  It was this place that spawned his hell, interacting with some of the people here would drive him crazy seeing how hypocritical everything is...  Being forced to swallow the views here that don't align for him just to fit in.  I'm kind of getting the picture already.  He's smart in many ways but his trust is too high.  I could see his trust in this place being abused.  He's horrible at describing himself in real time too (probably why he writes) and I could see him blowing up in a spur of the moment argument here unable to process this places energy right.

I have a 95% chance of a feeling I'll find something like that here if some PM's are truthful.

Beyond that, I forgive you all for any future stuff that might come up while I'm searching around.  I don't expect anything in return.

I love, but even love must traverse darkness to bring that love to those places.  Just as we incarnate here to bring that love to earth dark spots, I'm here now in this places dark spots, my love isn't here to shine though, I'm on a mission of mercy.

May God's true love find all of you in those dark spots so I may avoid you all.  Every other being of truth is welcome to interact with me.

Sorry.

[One of Love]

Oh goodness. 89 pages of posts just on the CA account... and chances are they'll all be novels.

Thank God I love reading.

[Aion]

Sorry to hear he's still not doing better, hopefully with time he will open up to your help.

Like I said I've been here awhile and I've seen a lot of different things going on. However, there are some things about the forum and L/L Research that I have observed. One is that the people who are physically involved with L/L and the members of the forum are fairly separate entities. Even most of the people who go to the yearly gatherings are not people who are on the forum. (Maybe cause others have picked up on the funky vibe...) In general I think that not a lot of attention is paid to moderation in terms of behaviour.

This is because, two, I have noticed that since the claim in the Ra Material that acceptance is the pathway to positivity has driven many to insist on absolute acceptance of all things, even atrocity. I think that part of the driver for this is the existence of the Hidden Hand material. I am not sure if you are familiar but if not then you should probably read it. I think it will give you an idea of what sort of energy is lingering around this place. It attempts to make acceptable all the evils of the world.

https://www.wanttoknow.info/secret_socie...and_081018

I agree with you that there is a lot of confusion here and that darkness and light have been conflated with eachother. As far I am aware there is no one who has caused anyone else to actually commit suicide on the forum and the only previous member I am aware of to off themselves already had the tendency and it had nothing to do with the forum but there is no doubt that C_A is not the first individual to be troubled by the 'total acceptance is the way' narrative.

There's this idea that goes around that 'balance' or being 'positive' means accepting every horror that is before you. I don't agree with that. I think that the forum is stuck in the 'sinkhole of indifference' as some might put it. It's not really moving towards either polarity but rather spinning in circles caught in the middle. That's how it seems to me anyways.

I think that really what this forum is missing and what C_A needed but didn't get here was gentleness, softness and listening compassion. I certainly don't have a talent for being gentle, as you've already noted, but I do still try to help.

[Relax]

I agree Aion... :idea:

One Of Love - you say CA said: "people here manipulate the content to fit their own views and agendas"

yes! this is very clear from a lot of threads I'm reading

the nature of the freewill set up of this 'place' means chaos in the outside world comes in and presents itself here and mods don't have the time (literally) to 'shape' the energy of the forums - nor do they feel it is a wise thing to do - from reading the rules - they will intervene on clear bullying - but general back and forth disagreeing and dark thinking will remain...

some people should not interact here - but that reflects not on the Ra material - but on humans in 3rd density who interact here...

so - the take away is possibly - this is not a guaranteed sanctuary - but CA doesn't seem to have been able to accept that...
I imagine that'd be because he has so much truly awful hardship happening in his offline life...

I'll probably now reduce my time here after seeing what has been posted over the years...
the LOO is till very beautiful for me though...

[ada]

...

I know there are times here when people "play" dark games with one another, mind games, clever manipulative thought patterns to freak someone (anyone) out yet make it seem unexplainable to others so one who's mind is broken and traumatized can't redeem itself because nobody will believe or understand.

---

I have honestly never seen that. Am I oblivious or is it open to interpretation. I think most conflicts are simply wounds bumping each other. I'd be surprised if people were purposely trying to mess with people, but maybe I avoid those threads before they get to that point. If you see one point it out. I am feeling a bit clueless.

Every time you see senseless posts or word play it's a display of power.

[Stranger]

It's just a forum, people. Not a single organization. Think of it as a public square with bulletin boards.

*Anyone* can walk through it, and if they so choose, decide to stick a notice on one of the boards.

Anyone else has the choice to read - or not read - any of it, and if they so choose, to stop and have a conversation with the person who wrote it.

Of course you're going to get all sorts of personalities, troubles, agendas - like anything else, it's a blank canvas, a psychological "projective test" where everyone's distortions color their interpretations and expressions.

But, so what?

Unless one is coming here with the (possibly unconscious) hope that the forum will fulfill some unfulfilled *need*, it can be all good fun - read the people who you find have something of value to say, let the rest slide. And I find that there are plenty of people here whose thoughts, wisdom, and/or expressions of spiritual love are inspirational, nourishing. I love that. But it's not going to be everyone - and that's OK, isn't it? Others are working on whatever their work happens to be at that moment, and in these somewhat conflictual interactions occurs the polishing that eventually, like all catalyst, helps to create the pearl.

But no one is forced to get sucked into anyone else's vortex - just read the post and choose to walk on by. It's that easy, and if it doesn't feel easy - guess what, don't blame the poster but notice your own ego tripping you up, making you want to defend, prove yourself right, argue back, etc.; and having noticed that, much useful work on the self can be accomplished, with thanks given for the catalyst that made it possible.

It's like a buffet. Take whatever tastes good to you, leave the rest - maybe it tastes good to someone else. There is even an "ignore" function that can be used to hide another member's posts.

There is no "forum". It's just a bunch of people sharing their distortions with one another around a particular topic. Come to think of it, that describes "the world" pretty well, too.

I love you all.

P.S.
"Whosoever carries the light within need never fear any darkness."

[Glow]

Sorry to hear he's still not doing better, hopefully with time he will open up to your help.

Like I said I've been here awhile and I've seen a lot of different things going on. However, there are some things about the forum and L/L Research that I have observed. One is that the people who are physically involved with L/L and the members of the forum are fairly separate entities. Even most of the people who go to the yearly gatherings are not people who are on the forum. (Maybe cause others have picked up on the funky vibe...) In general I think that not a lot of attention is paid to moderation in terms of behaviour.

This is because, two, I have noticed that since the claim in the Ra Material that acceptance is the pathway to positivity has driven many to insist on absolute acceptance of all things, even atrocity. I think that part of the driver for this is the existence of the Hidden Hand material. I am not sure if you are familiar but if not then you should probably read it. I think it will give you an idea of what sort of energy is lingering around this place. It attempts to make acceptable all the evils of the world.

https://www.wanttoknow.info/secret_socie...and_081018

I agree with you that there is a lot of confusion here and that darkness and light have been conflated with eachother. As far I am aware there is no one who has caused anyone else to actually commit suicide on the forum and the only previous member I am aware of to off themselves already had the tendency and it had nothing to do with the forum but there is no doubt that C_A is not the first individual to be troubled by the 'total acceptance is the way' narrative.

There's this idea that goes around that 'balance' or being 'positive' means accepting every horror that is before you. I don't agree with that. I think that the forum is stuck in the 'sinkhole of indifference' as some might put it. It's not really moving towards either polarity but rather spinning in circles caught in the middle. That's how it seems to me anyways.

I think that really what this forum is missing and what C_A needed but didn't get here was gentleness, softness and listening compassion. I certainly don't have a talent for being gentle, as you've already noted, but I do still try to help.

He did get that, only it was done via pm.
We talked a lot, even the day he left.

I would bet money other people also connected with him in a more nurturing way via pm.

[Glow]

...

I know there are times here when people "play" dark games with one another, mind games, clever manipulative thought patterns to freak someone (anyone) out yet make it seem unexplainable to others so one who's mind is broken and traumatized can't redeem itself because nobody will believe or understand.

---

I have honestly never seen that. Am I oblivious or is it open to interpretation. I think most conflicts are simply wounds bumping each other. I'd be surprised if people were purposely trying to mess with people, but maybe I avoid those threads before they get to that point. If you see one point it out. I am feeling a bit clueless.

Every time you see senseless posts or word play it's a display of power.

I don’t see it like that. People have many reasons to post nonsense. Sometimes banter(I’m not good at that but if one has trouble with intimacy it’s a go to) others boredom, loneliness, having nothing to say but wanting to be included.

People aren’t so bad. Weak yes, short sighted definitely, absorbed in their own pain yes! I don’t think people are consciously being cruel though. At least not here with a few exceptions.

[Aion]

Sorry to hear he's still not doing better, hopefully with time he will open up to your help.

Like I said I've been here awhile and I've seen a lot of different things going on. However, there are some things about the forum and L/L Research that I have observed. One is that the people who are physically involved with L/L and the members of the forum are fairly separate entities. Even most of the people who go to the yearly gatherings are not people who are on the forum. (Maybe cause others have picked up on the funky vibe...) In general I think that not a lot of attention is paid to moderation in terms of behaviour.

This is because, two, I have noticed that since the claim in the Ra Material that acceptance is the pathway to positivity has driven many to insist on absolute acceptance of all things, even atrocity. I think that part of the driver for this is the existence of the Hidden Hand material. I am not sure if you are familiar but if not then you should probably read it. I think it will give you an idea of what sort of energy is lingering around this place. It attempts to make acceptable all the evils of the world.

https://www.wanttoknow.info/secret_socie...and_081018

I agree with you that there is a lot of confusion here and that darkness and light have been conflated with eachother. As far I am aware there is no one who has caused anyone else to actually commit suicide on the forum and the only previous member I am aware of to off themselves already had the tendency and it had nothing to do with the forum but there is no doubt that C_A is not the first individual to be troubled by the 'total acceptance is the way' narrative.

There's this idea that goes around that 'balance' or being 'positive' means accepting every horror that is before you. I don't agree with that. I think that the forum is stuck in the 'sinkhole of indifference' as some might put it. It's not really moving towards either polarity but rather spinning in circles caught in the middle. That's how it seems to me anyways.

I think that really what this forum is missing and what C_A needed but didn't get here was gentleness, softness and listening compassion. I certainly don't have a talent for being gentle, as you've already noted, but I do still try to help.

He did get that, only it was done via pm.
We talked a lot, even the day he left.

I would bet money other people also connected with him in a more nurturing way via pm.

Maybe so, but that clearly didn't give him the overall impression of the place and on many occasions he expressed similar things publicly so whatever he was getting through PMs clearly wasn't enough to offset the feelings he got from the rest of the place.

Personally, I'm not a 'rose coloured glasses' kind of person. I can acknowledge people do things in ignorance or unintentionally while still acknowledging that harm can still come from that. I'm not trying to put down the members of the forum, I am trying to bring light to what I observed in regards to the ways he seemed to often be hurt by this place.

Brushing off the hurt with 'everyone does their best' is exactly the kind of talk I think he was very bothered by, and which also bothers me. People aren't perfect so I don't feel the need to justify their every action as being part of some cosmic lesson plan. Pain doesn't need justification, it needs nurturing and care. This is something I didn't properly understand when interacting with him before either. I wish I could go back now and be a lot wiser with my words, but I also accept responsibility for any hurt I may have caused.

I agree it is unlikely there are many, if any, individuals who are consciously and intentionally trying to be cruel or hurtful, but the fact is someone doesn't have to be conscious or intentional to be harmful and just because one thing may not seem harmful to someone doesn't mean it doesn't hurt someone else.

My point being that what I would really 'point the finger' at on this forum is really just simple carelessness with words. I think that often the power of words is grossly underestimated and I am also guilty of that carelessness. However, this can never be addressed if anytime someone gets hurt its brushed off as 'their interpretation'. This 'everyone for themselves' attitude does not befit a cooperative community, in my eyes.

[flofrog]

I agree Aion, this works for me too. I have been careless too, and strongly regret it.

[Glow]

Aion - I accept what you are saying. I know people here can be brutal with their words I have seen it. I don’t appologize or think I am wrong though in saying it’s wounds. I’m ok if that isn’t good enough for you. I think we should all attempt to be impeccable with our words.

1 of the four agreements that I think would also help every one to learn is exactly that.
Still there is no being perfect it just isn’t possible for all people in all their states of mind. Heck even CA could be pretty rough when he was hurt.

If we want to sleuth our issues Cainite left recently and as CA did he said goodbye to me and I really miss his presence around here too. Love him and I think he added a beautiful light to this place.

The energy here bothered him too but I don’t know what could have been done different. I’d like him back here but I obviously have no solution.

Life is hard and this place brings together lots of people finding life hard. Many cannot even open their hearts yet. Do they get banned because a lot of people would have been banned by now if that was the solution.

By the way I don’t think it’s anything like everyone for themselves, more no one against anyone.
I’ve been stuck up for before and I have stuck up for others. Maybe we need more of that or maybe it would just make people take sides vs trying to be open hearted and minded with everyone.

I’m going to leave this discussion because obviously I’m pretty damn fond of everyone here and all I can see is everyone’s beauty and wounds so this isn’t where I’m going to be helpful.

[Spaced]

Hello One of Love, I think your friend is very lucky to have someone like you in his life. I respect your honesty and willingness to crack the proverbial lid open and let the light in. 

This forum is a strange place. I have been around here for a long time and I used to have the energy to share my perspective more often but now I do not. It's too heavy and I got burnt out years ago, yet I'm still here aren't I? Strange that.

The Law of One still holds an important place in my heart. Would I recommend it to others? If they had expressed an interest in these kinds of philosophical topics I absolutely would. Would I recommend this forum? I would not.

I think one danger is that people connect to this material deeply and without a well developed BS meter (as you put it) and it can become an obsession. Furthermore, if they don't have the grounding of a stable "mundane" life it can lead one to be more and more disconnected from society. This forum can then substitute for that connection to society only to become an echo chamber for distorted understandings bouncing back and forth. This is not a forum full of healthy people, people here carry pain and confusion and can spread that pain and confusion to others (intentionally or not). I'm not above any of this by any stretch, I've shared some deeply confused things before and I've gotten into debates here that did nothing but spread anger and ill will. 

I think what keeps me around is that everyone was drawn here by a message of love and deep down that's what we all seek.

Anyhow, I'm not sure I have anything constructive to add other than to wish you both all the best. CA is a an intelligent and sensitive person, I hope he can find a way to live in peace. 

 

[Aion]

Aion - I accept what you are saying. I know people here can be brutal with their words I have seen it. I don’t appologize or think I am wrong though in saying it’s wounds. I’m ok if that isn’t good enough for you. I think we should all attempt to be impeccable with our words.

1 of the four agreements that I think would also help every one to learn is exactly that.
Still there is no being perfect it just isn’t possible for all people in all their states of mind. Heck even CA could be pretty rough when he was hurt.

If we want to sleuth our issues Cainite left recently and as CA did he said goodbye to me and I really miss his presence around here too. Love him and I think he added a beautiful light to this place.

The energy here bothered him too but I don’t know what could have been done different. I’d like him back here but I obviously have no solution.

Life is hard and this place brings together lots of people finding life hard. Many cannot even open their hearts yet. Do they get banned because a lot of people would have been banned by now if that was the solution.

By the way I don’t think it’s anything like everyone for themselves, more no one against anyone.
I’ve been stuck up for before and I have stuck up for others. Maybe we need more of that or maybe it would just make people take sides vs trying to be open hearted and minded with everyone.

I’m going to leave this discussion because obviously I’m pretty damn fond of everyone here and all I can see is everyone’s beauty and wounds so this isn’t where I’m going to be helpful.

I think that everyone has their idealizations. I appreciate your viewpoint. However, I am still bothered that anytime somebody brings up a grievance it is 'neutralized' by this kind of language and philosophy. I know you mean well, but as you say yourself, you offer no solutions otherwise.

I think you have a kind heart and a strong sense of compassion and that is valuable to this community. The fact is I'm not a very 'fluffy' person so forgive me if sometimes my assessment of things is rather stark. I've seen people, my friends, become incredibly abused by groups of individuals claiming to be all about free love and self-acceptance, so I admit I have some biases in that regard. What people say and how people act are often two different things.

As you say, the first agreement would be a good lesson for many people.

Also, I have seen on this forum many, many, many times people pulling the 'nobody is responsible for your feelings/thoughts but you' card, so I can't say I agree with your assessment that there hasn't been a theme of everyone for themselves. I feel that your strong fondness for the people and the place definitely colours your view a bit. I also don't think there's anything wrong with that, since my views are also coloured by my experiences. I think that for myself I am often looking at the forum 'as a whole' but I feel often people are more referencing just their personal experience on the forum. I'm sure there are plenty of others who see it as a whole too though.

I feel like you might take what I am saying as 'being negative' or as saying negative things about the community. Quite the opposite actually, I am simply acknowledging our humanity. I haven't called anyone evil or tried to start a witch hunt, lol. However I have thought about the energy around this place a lot over the last 6 or 7 years so I admit I have some thoughts and opinions.

[Glow]

I do not see you as “being negative”. We just see different and that’s ok.

[Aion]

I think all I'm really trying to say is that with a bit of extra effort, maybe a little bit of care (speaking to myself too here), then perhaps this 'bad vibe' lingering around the forum could be lifted. I think that's what C_A wanted all along. However, I don't think that will happen so long as people are happy to just 'let things be'. Of course, though, that is a crux of what is claimed to be positive philosophy in the Ra Material, so I can't really see the members of the forum getting on board for any sort of organized effort towards change. People want to just do what they want to do and be left alone otherwise it seems.

Heck, the fact that some people think there is a bad vibe and others insist there isn't is already a lingering conflict over the place.

I'm just tired of waiting for it to resolve itself in silence. I've been trying to just take the 'non-interference' approach but maybe some things need to be said and discussed.

I'm just going to raise a ruckus until people can't ignore me, I suppose.

Already I can imagine how some might feel about 'upsetting the peace', but I think the peace is a lie anyways.

Again though, I appreciate your perspective and attitude. I don't care to 'change' anyone but I would like to provoke some thought I think.

Nah, I'm not really gonna do anything. People like the status quo (if we even have that here). Humour is hard to articulate through text.

[Glow]

I’ve had months I have avoided this place so there very can be a bad vibe. I just always took a break and assumed people work working on catalyst that I wasn’t drawn too. They could work that out elsewhere like reddit or 4chan and reserve this place for less toxic exploration.

I certainly don’t think there is any harm in pointing out when something could be said with more kindness. I’ve seen often that is role modeled but maybe it should be said too.

What other options are there?

[Aion]

Well to be fair that has been my typical approach as well. However, since I keep being drawn back I'm starting to think 'just leave it alone' might not make it a problem for me, but it hasn't helped the atmosphere of the forum at all and so maybe that's why I still feel the same vibes when I come. For awhile I thought I was maybe a big part of the problem so I left, but when I finally came back that feeling was still the same.

I would say though that I think the forums right now are lighter and more peaceful than much of the past because it's fairly quiet. Not so much energy running through the system. That is good in itself, but I also see it as an opportune time to address some of those old patterns that still appear or maybe moreso lay down some new patterns.

So at this point I admit I don't really know what needs to be done. I haven't been back on very long so I am sure there is still more for me sleuth.

[Glow]

Btw I don’t think at least as long as I’ve been a member that you have at all contributed to bad vibes. the other stuff yes!

[Aion]

Btw I don’t think at least as long as I’ve been a member that you have at all contributed to bad vibes. the other stuff yes!

Well thanks aha I'm not sure everyone would feel that way, but c'est la vie, can't please everyone.

I'm glad you've been sticking around, cause someone needs to appreciate the roses and not just point out the thorns.

[flofrog]

Btw I don’t think at least as long as I’ve been a member that you have at all contributed to bad vibes. the other stuff yes!

Lol. I agree Glow, I have been away for nearly a year but I can attest that Aikn, despite what he says, is extremely gentle ! . In fact he helped me a lot before I left the forum when I got really busy with no time to visit. Yes, Aion, sorry but you are really kind, what can you do...

[Aion]

Well thanks, I appreciate the appreciation, but anyways this thread isn't about me. I get a little too caught up in responding and forget the context of the thread sometimes, lol. To be honest I have always been wondering what happened with C_A after he left and had been worried for him, so I admit I'm being maybe a little selfish being so active in this thread because it makes me feel emotional since I feel I was never really able to help him in any meaningful capacity and I feel sad for his pain. It's good to hear about him though, although it's unfortunate his state, and nice to meet One of Love who clearly holds a lot of care in her heart, especially for him.

I hope and pray that light finds its way in to the darkness.

[Relax]

Hello One of Love, I think your friend is very lucky to have someone like you in his life. I respect your honesty and willingness to crack the proverbial lid open and let the light in. 

This forum is a strange place. I have been around here for a long time and I used to have the energy to share my perspective more often but now I do not. It's too heavy and I got burnt out years ago, yet I'm still here aren't I? Strange that.

The Law of One still holds an important place in my heart. Would I recommend it to others? If they had expressed an interest in these kinds of philosophical topics I absolutely would. Would I recommend this forum? I would not.

I think one danger is that people connect to this material deeply and without a well developed BS meter (as you put it) and it can become an obsession. Furthermore, if they don't have the grounding of a stable "mundane" life it can lead one to be more and more disconnected from society. This forum can then substitute for that connection to society only to become an echo chamber for distorted understandings bouncing back and forth. This is not a forum full of healthy people, people here carry pain and confusion and can spread that pain and confusion to others (intentionally or not). I'm not above any of this by any stretch, I've shared some deeply confused things before and I've gotten into debates here that did nothing but spread anger and ill will. 

I think what keeps me around is that everyone was drawn here by a message of love and deep down that's what we all seek.

Anyhow, I'm not sure I have anything constructive to add other than to wish you both all the best. CA is a an intelligent and sensitive person, I hope he can find a way to live in peace. 

 

   

[Relax]

Aion - I accept what you are saying. I know people here can be brutal with their words I have seen it. I don’t appologize or think I am wrong though in saying it’s wounds. I’m ok if that isn’t good enough for you. I think we should all attempt to be impeccable with our words.

1 of the four agreements that I think would also help every one to learn is exactly that.
Still there is no being perfect it just isn’t possible for all people in all their states of mind. Heck even CA could be pretty rough when he was hurt.

If we want to sleuth our issues Cainite left recently and as CA did he said goodbye to me and I really miss his presence around here too. Love him and I think he added a beautiful light to this place.

The energy here bothered him too but I don’t know what could have been done different. I’d like him back here but I obviously have no solution.

Life is hard and this place brings together lots of people finding life hard. Many cannot even open their hearts yet. Do they get banned because a lot of people would have been banned by now if that was the solution.

By the way I don’t think it’s anything like everyone for themselves, more no one against anyone.
I’ve been stuck up for before and I have stuck up for others. Maybe we need more of that or maybe it would just make people take sides vs trying to be open hearted and minded with everyone.

I’m going to leave this discussion because obviously I’m pretty damn fond of everyone here and all I can see is everyone’s beauty and wounds so this isn’t where I’m going to be helpful.

I think that everyone has their idealizations. I appreciate your viewpoint. However, I am still bothered that anytime somebody brings up a grievance it is 'neutralized' by this kind of language and philosophy. I know you mean well, but as you say yourself, you offer no solutions otherwise.

I think you have a kind heart and a strong sense of compassion and that is valuable to this community. The fact is I'm not a very 'fluffy' person so forgive me if sometimes my assessment of things is rather stark. I've seen people, my friends, become incredibly abused by groups of individuals claiming to be all about free love and self-acceptance, so I admit I have some biases in that regard. What people say and how people act are often two different things.

As you say, the first agreement would be a good lesson for many people.

Also, I have seen on this forum many, many, many times people pulling the 'nobody is responsible for your feelings/thoughts but you' card, so I can't say I agree with your assessment that there hasn't been a theme of everyone for themselves. I feel that your strong fondness for the people and the place definitely colours your view a bit. I also don't think there's anything wrong with that, since my views are also coloured by my experiences. I think that for myself I am often looking at the forum 'as a whole' but I feel often people are more referencing just their personal experience on the forum. I'm sure there are plenty of others who see it as a whole too though.

I feel like you might take what I am saying as 'being negative' or as saying negative things about the community. Quite the opposite actually, I am simply acknowledging our humanity. I haven't called anyone evil or tried to start a witch hunt, lol. However I have thought about the energy around this place a lot over the last 6 or 7 years so I admit I have some thoughts and opinions.

   

[Relax]

I think all I'm really trying to say is that with a bit of extra effort, maybe a little bit of care (speaking to myself too here), then perhaps this 'bad vibe' lingering around the forum could be lifted. I think that's what C_A wanted all along. However, I don't think that will happen so long as people are happy to just 'let things be'. Of course, though, that is a crux of what is claimed to be positive philosophy in the Ra Material, so I can't really see the members of the forum getting on board for any sort of organized effort towards change. People want to just do what they want to do and be left alone otherwise it seems.

Heck, the fact that some people think there is a bad vibe and others insist there isn't is already a lingering conflict over the place.

I'm just tired of waiting for it to resolve itself in silence. I've been trying to just take the 'non-interference' approach but maybe some things need to be said and discussed.

I'm just going to raise a ruckus until people can't ignore me, I suppose.

Already I can imagine how some might feel about 'upsetting the peace', but I think the peace is a lie anyways.

Again though, I appreciate your perspective and attitude. I don't care to 'change' anyone but I would like to provoke some thought I think.

Nah, I'm not really gonna do anything. People like the status quo (if we even have that here). Humour is hard to articulate through text.

 :exclamation:  :idea:  :exclamation:  

[One of Love]

Sorry to hear he's still not doing better, hopefully with time he will open up to your help.

Like I said I've been here awhile and I've seen a lot of different things going on. However, there are some things about the forum and L/L Research that I have observed. One is that the people who are physically involved with L/L and the members of the forum are fairly separate entities. Even most of the people who go to the yearly gatherings are not people who are on the forum. (Maybe cause others have picked up on the funky vibe...) In general I think that not a lot of attention is paid to moderation in terms of behaviour.

This is because, two, I have noticed that since the claim in the Ra Material that acceptance is the pathway to positivity has driven many to insist on absolute acceptance of all things, even atrocity. I think that part of the driver for this is the existence of the Hidden Hand material. I am not sure if you are familiar but if not then you should probably read it. I think it will give you an idea of what sort of energy is lingering around this place. It attempts to make acceptable all the evils of the world.

https://www.wanttoknow.info/secret_socie...and_081018

I agree with you that there is a lot of confusion here and that darkness and light have been conflated with eachother. As far I am aware there is no one who has caused anyone else to actually commit suicide on the forum and the only previous member I am aware of to off themselves already had the tendency and it had nothing to do with the forum but there is no doubt that C_A is not the first individual to be troubled by the 'total acceptance is the way' narrative.

There's this idea that goes around that 'balance' or being 'positive' means accepting every horror that is before you. I don't agree with that. I think that the forum is stuck in the 'sinkhole of indifference' as some might put it. It's not really moving towards either polarity but rather spinning in circles caught in the middle. That's how it seems to me anyways.

I think that really what this forum is missing and what C_A needed but didn't get here was gentleness, softness and listening compassion. I certainly don't have a talent for being gentle, as you've already noted, but I do still try to help.

He did get that, only it was done via pm.
We talked a lot, even the day he left.

I would bet money other people also connected with him in a more nurturing way via pm.

Maybe so, but that clearly didn't give him the overall impression of the place and on many occasions he expressed similar things publicly so whatever he was getting through PMs clearly wasn't enough to offset the feelings he got from the rest of the place.

Personally, I'm not a 'rose coloured glasses' kind of person. I can acknowledge people do things in ignorance or unintentionally while still acknowledging that harm can still come from that. I'm not trying to put down the members of the forum, I am trying to bring light to what I observed in regards to the ways he seemed to often be hurt by this place.

Brushing off the hurt with 'everyone does their best' is exactly the kind of talk I think he was very bothered by, and which also bothers me. People aren't perfect so I don't feel the need to justify their every action as being part of some cosmic lesson plan. Pain doesn't need justification, it needs nurturing and care. This is something I didn't properly understand when interacting with him before either. I wish I could go back now and be a lot wiser with my words, but I also accept responsibility for any hurt I may have caused.

I agree it is unlikely there are many, if any, individuals who are consciously and intentionally trying to be cruel or hurtful, but the fact is someone doesn't have to be conscious or intentional to be harmful and just because one thing may not seem harmful to someone doesn't mean it doesn't hurt someone else.

My point being that what I would really 'point the finger' at on this forum is really just simple carelessness with words. I think that often the power of words is grossly underestimated and I am also guilty of that carelessness. However, this can never be addressed if anytime someone gets hurt its brushed off as 'their interpretation'. This 'everyone for themselves' attitude does not befit a cooperative community, in my eyes.

Your wisdom aligns with my feelings.  Turning issues like bad behavior into nonissues has been a major thing I've noticed I've had to deal with in my life.  My father made his drinking a nonissue because it wasn't an issue to him.  It was to us because he'd become abusive and he didn't care to notice.

Invalidating a real problem is abusive in my experience.  A tool to silence rather than anything else.

CA has done the same and he's no saint, but he turned things like polarity into a nonissue and all it did was make things worse for him.  He turned his mother into a nonissue and things got worse.  Saying something that isn't okay IS, that's dangerous.  It's not okay when people are abused, or hurt, especially in a place that expresses itself as a place of love which equates it to a safe place for some.

If I came here believing this place was a safe place, my replies would be greatly varied, I'd be more open about myself, share about myself, but I do not believe this is a safe loving place.  I think you've all deluded your views of this place because you love this place.  It's like how I just want to stroke the ego of CA to make him feel better and more mundane than stroking his beliefs.  He wants to believe but it just hurts him, sometimes he needs to be reminded he's just a human, nothing more, nothing less.  Not a soul or consciousness underneath filters of perception, just a human with a lot of beliefs.

It grounds him, and he can't ground himself for some reason I can't make sense of.  I just assume when your mind runs like a super computer the humanity gets lost in there...

I see many turn blind eyes here.  That the view of acceptance here is in an absolute manner does not align with my understanding of this material.  To accept someone hurting you just because 'its the right thing to do' doesn't mean it is actually the right thing to do.

I'm sure that is especially true if the person hurting you has no awareness of the consequences they're inflicting upon you.  Planned or spontaneous, hurting someone is not acceptance, letting yourself get hurt is not acceptance.

You can accept something and still attempt to not be harmed by it.  Just like I accept this place is as it is, that doesn't mean I just say 'kay' whenever harmful energies come my way because I accepted they exist here.

For all of you that see nothing with what this place has done negatively to others, I will especially ask true love to illuminate you for my avoidance.

Aion you don't need to apologize!  You didn't change the context, conversations evolve and the subject did move onto you.  I'm not gonna attention ----- myself lol, I like a shifting spotlight.  Plays need them to get the focus across haha!

And life is a play so they say.  So you have no need to apologize.

I will admit, I was hit with a twinge of anxiety clicking on this thread and other replies to me.  I don't want to fight or argue as much as just inform.  I'm not here to stay so I'm not going to expend my emotions here like he did.  I'm just on a mission of mercy to find answers for someone I love.

That such a journey brought me here, I get a good laugh out of it.  Exploring the fallacies and issues of a loving place (since it's not a forum or a cult according to community members) has really made me recognize my own love and wisdom compared to my dark love and wisdom...  I do not believe I understand, I just feel that I must take these sides of my love and wisdom, and combine them into their true part since light and dark are components of trueth (made up word, think of it as if truth has a sleuth of parts that needed to come together to manifest it).

Beyond that, truth seems to exist in all parts, like love and beauty.  In my anger is truth.  In my joy is truth.  In my pain is truth.  In my healing is truth.  In all of these things, to unify them was to manifest their truth.  And of what little trueth I've found, belonged to my love for CA, and my hate for the male gender.  Belonged to my selfishness discovering something that finally made it not act only for itself.  Belonged to my suffering finding healing.  To my frustration finding tranquility.

To me, I am just a clueless bumbling confused human enjoying the mysteries of life and the serendipitous ways of god.  I am fallible, I scream and hit and yes. I bite and scratch.  I am a monster in one part, and a sacred divine being in another.

When Ra said are we not all things, I was surprised to find that I am.  I'm the rock on the trail, the tree in the greenery, the running water of a lake, my emotions mimic these things and stem from life itself, my sadness shines like the moon, my joy rains down on me like a downpour.  My silence is still as the rock and my mind's eye is fluttering about like a butterfly.

When I come here I feel moved by the war of energy here.  I enjoy the show, it is entertaining, but I have to put down my smile to this place and remember why I'm here.  This place drove someone down the road to suicide, the keys to that cause still lay within this place.  I'm just here to dig them up, I'll enjoy myself still but ultimately my time here is temporary, so everyone who may have an issue with my issues here, worry not for I will not be around forever.

I believe nothing here will change, having seen the stuckness of the energy that sits over this community, the 'egregore' as this place seems to call it.  It is like the show Catdog, two totally different beings attached as one, both pulling their own way.  Result is a tug of war.  End result is a place as seen now, a loving community that drove someone to attempt suicide.

Seems clear as quartz to me.

[One of Love]

I just have to laugh real fast.  I've been wondering what other accounts he made here, just found it.  He really likes his first story character.

Did you know the name Van from his name actually was inspired by his favorite shoe brand, Vans?

Does anyone know if he had any other accounts??

Honestly not sure if this is a stupid or bad question.
Would it be impossible to unlock those accounts (with his permission first of course) to go through his PM's?  I'm fairly certain I know what password he used here  at least for his CA account but if not I think I can get them out of him.

[ada]

I just have to laugh real fast.  I've been wondering what other accounts he made here, just found it.  He really likes his first story character.

Did you know the name Van from his name actually was inspired by his favorite shoe brand, Vans?

Does anyone know if he had any other accounts??

Honestly not sure if this is a stupid or bad question.
Would it be impossible to unlock those accounts (with his permission first of course) to go through his PM's?  I'm fairly certain I know what password he used here  at least for his CA account but if not I think I can get them out of him.

If you get his permission why go through the PMs? Just ask him.

I think what you are doing is kind, but you should focus more on him now rather him of then.

Lend your ear to listen to him, be a shoulder to lean for him, and a kind heart to warm him up.

I believe, in time he will open up to you and tell you all about the adventures that he has had.

If you dig up too much without his permission who knows how it will affect him.  :-/

[ada]

On a side note, I do not believe in permanent bans either. It is in my opinion not a correct way of teaching and learning.

However, I do believe that the community itself can turn its love and compassion towards those same hurt souls and tend to them.

I understand that some are hurt, confused, lost, bored, etc. But we should always seek ways to better ourselves instead of ignoring signs of clear distress and confusion.

I do not believe any one is bad or purely evil, but merely lost.

Reach them, teach them, be an example. This is what I believe in.

Though I myself, am no exception of such confusion. Therefore I open up my wounds, and show you my hurt.