Delicate info Regarding Mu, Yahweh and Orion

[Ali Quadir]

I know unity, you already told us you believe we have no responsibility in the matter.

Where do you think those entities came from?

[zenmaster]

Planet + inhabitants creates and sustains an evolutionary logos (in addition to the akashic or 'mind' field) which provides particular 'opportunities' for all of 3D. This logos is a template, further refining the solar logos, which further refines the galactic, and so forth.

However, the transplants and wanderers, who have evolved under a different logos, seem to outnumber the natives. That is sort of interesting situation, culturally, and I'd imagine fosters resentment among some. Why? Because there are obviously some natives who 'know' they belong or 'fit in'. But the 'outsiders' who, depending on their length of influence here, fit in to a lesser degree, are indeed mucking things up. Ah, but the politically correct thing to say (and perhaps may ultimately prove to be the case) is they are enriching through their contributions of diversity.

[unity100]

I know unity, you already told us you believe we have no responsibility in the matter.

'no responsibility'.

yes, in a way, no responsibility indeed. but in what ?

in destruction of entire planets or entire planetary densities through usage of undeserved, earlier-than-its-time-awarded technology.

this seems to be something particular to this logos, to 3d experiences that have been heavily veiled since some time. probably it starts with maldek. or, maybe it started long ago in other planets, maybe mars. maybe the mars generation that came here is not the first generation as such. however, there is such an issue.

lets examine denebians. ra says their civilization mu, was not a technologically advanced and complex society. and, they say these entities had very advanced spiritual distortions. also noted is the fact that deneb locale has difficulties in 3d, due to the age of its sun.

this seemingly unimportant last bit of info is a very important one. it tells us star deneb is quite old, probably not able to support 3d anymore. this naturally means there has been a lot of cycles, graduations in locale deneb. because, the star is too old, it means that there has been a lot of cycles before than this. this would mean that there had passed a lot of graduates to higher densities in deneb before this point in time. and this in turn says that, it would be a higher possibility to have full array of density spectrums found in deneb locale at a point in time, or even maybe now. ie - in short, deneb locale is/was a place that had planets that its full density arrays activated, hence therefore more balanced and having activity in all its densities.

this, explains the advanced spiritual distortions of the deneb 3d incarnates here. as logos as the incarnate. because they have passed through densities in such a place, they naturally have taken the locale's spiritual 'culture', qualities.

putting deneb entities, or other apparent different spiritual influence entities against the identifiable traits of martian entities, we see that there is A LOT of difference.

its not the normal positive/negative swingings of a natural 3d progression at play with martians - its a whole lot array of extreme and destructive problems.

and :

Where do you think those entities came from?

where did those entities come from ? why, its mars, after the heavy veil. just like maldek, after the heavy veil. there is a repeating pattern here.

and denebians, came from deneb, and 2 other major group of incarnates came from elsewhere. including the other 13 minor influences.

yeah. actually, where the souls have came from, does indeed affect their spiritual balance at a given point in time.

martians are wreaking havoc at this planet at this point in time. i dont think that there will be many graduates from among their lot as a percentage. even the maldek people had spent 700,000 or so in 2d bodies to get rid of their karma. the pattern that is recurring in this logos locale since the heavy veil doesnt seem to be something that is easily breakable.

the problem is, these martian entities will be transplanted to another planet this time. with all their excessive imbalances that, given opportunities, go to the extent of destroying entire planetary densities. and, all their elitism, all their rather 'phony' positive-intentioned negative acts.

basically they will be a problem for some other logos, some other people.

i very much think they should be sent to a low technology planet, and yahweh totally quarantined from them. no need to destroy 3d experiences, hell, even densities of other logoi, because of failures in another.

Planet + inhabitants creates and sustains an evolutionary logos (in addition to the akashic or 'mind' field) which provides particular 'opportunities' for all of 3D. This logos is a template, further refining the solar logos, which further refines the galactic, and so forth.

However, the transplants and wanderers, who have evolved under a different logos, seem to outnumber the natives. That is sort of interesting situation, culturally, and I'd imagine fosters resentment among some. Why? Because there are obviously some natives who 'know' they belong or 'fit in'. But the 'outsiders' who, depending on their length of influence here, fit in to a lesser degree, are indeed mucking things up. Ah, but the politically correct thing to say (and perhaps may ultimately prove to be the case) is they are enriching through their contributions of diversity.

this seem to be the opposite case. the native inhabitants of planet earth, are not so much elitist in this case. whichever group they are. however, the transplants of mars, seem to be quite heavily invested in such elitism inclination, and, bellicose action.

if africans are the natural graduates of this planet (not in body but in soul at least, they may be genetically modified per their bodies too), they also have some tendency to bellicosity. but, they dont have the destructive/enslaving elitist tendencies behind the pretense of 'positive' intentions.

[LsavedSmeD]

I believe at first Yahweh had created the "Garden of Eden" in such a way that there was no choice or "other" choice and therefor not much of striving or evolution spiritually for the entities or Free Will for that matter like a benevolent prison.

According to a section in the Ra material as well as a reading of "Hidden_Hand" who claims to be a being of Lucifer (also a sixth density entity) - it was Lucifer who was given the task by the council of 9 to offer the "other choice".

In the bible it's the Tree of Knowledge - but I'm sure it was something far different the Tree being only symbolic. Of course the people went against Yahweh and took the "other" choice and from there it was history which is why Lucifer is bound here or "Cast from the Heavens" as the bible says to live out the rest of the cycle continually giving the tools for Free Choice.

[Etude in B Minor]

lets examine denebians. ra says their civilization mu, was not a technologically advanced and complex society. and, they say these entities had very advanced spiritual distortions. also noted is the fact that deneb locale has difficulties in 3d, due to the age of its sun.

this seemingly unimportant last bit of info is a very important one. it tells us star deneb is quite old, probably not able to support 3d anymore. this naturally means there has been a lot of cycles, graduations in locale deneb. because, the star is too old, it means that there has been a lot of cycles before than this. this would mean that there had passed a lot of graduates to higher densities in deneb before this point in time. and this in turn says that, it would be a higher possibility to have full array of density spectrums found in deneb locale at a point in time, or even maybe now. ie - in short, deneb locale is/was a place that had planets that its full density arrays activated, hence therefore more balanced and having activity in all its densities.

Actually, if we assume that Ra is talking about the star that astronomers call Deneb the situation is quite different. Deneb is a blue supergiant star, and these stars typically live for only a short time. They are big, hot, and burn out quickly. Astronomers expect Deneb to go supernova in about 4 million years. Stars like these only live for 30 million years or so.

So, when Ra talks about the age of Deneb as a problem he may mean that Deneb is coming to the end of its life cycle and going through its supergiant phase and perhaps inhospitable. (if it was where our sun is now, Earth would be right at the edge of the star's surface).

[Ali Quadir]

I mean to say Unity, why are they in YOUR world?

[zenmaster]

Actually, if we assume that Ra is talking about the star that astronomers call Deneb the situation is quite different. Deneb is a blue supergiant star, and these stars typically live for only a short time.

Doubtful, if you subscribe to the Reciprocal System (where Ra got the terms time/space and space/time). The RS would have this be an old star. And, according to the RS, modern astronomy has stellar evolution backwards for the most part. i.e. Red giants would be young, recently igniting aggregates, not old.

[rilesywilesy]

Hello, I have not completely read this thread, but I wanted to let you know that I have created another thread which is relevant to this topic.

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=1794

[unity100]

lets examine denebians. ra says their civilization mu, was not a technologically advanced and complex society. and, they say these entities had very advanced spiritual distortions. also noted is the fact that deneb locale has difficulties in 3d, due to the age of its sun.

this seemingly unimportant last bit of info is a very important one. it tells us star deneb is quite old, probably not able to support 3d anymore. this naturally means there has been a lot of cycles, graduations in locale deneb. because, the star is too old, it means that there has been a lot of cycles before than this. this would mean that there had passed a lot of graduates to higher densities in deneb before this point in time. and this in turn says that, it would be a higher possibility to have full array of density spectrums found in deneb locale at a point in time, or even maybe now. ie - in short, deneb locale is/was a place that had planets that its full density arrays activated, hence therefore more balanced and having activity in all its densities.

Actually, if we assume that Ra is talking about the star that astronomers call Deneb the situation is quite different. Deneb is a blue supergiant star, and these stars typically live for only a short time. They are big, hot, and burn out quickly. Astronomers expect Deneb to go supernova in about 4 million years. Stars like these only live for 30 million years or so.

So, when Ra talks about the age of Deneb as a problem he may mean that Deneb is coming to the end of its life cycle and going through its supergiant phase and perhaps inhospitable. (if it was where our sun is now, Earth would be right at the edge of the star's surface).

that could have been a possibility. however, the 'advanced spiritual distortions' part of the equation, point otherwise.

I mean to say Unity, why are they in YOUR world?

'my' world ? its quite hard for me to say that this is 'my' world.

but actually, why are they in 'anyone's' world, in the first place ...

[LsavedSmeD]

Regardless, I am going to accept them to live with me on this planet anyways.

They teach us just as we teach them. If it were not for their negativity how would I better learn of the "other choice".

Unconditional Love and compassion is the threshold for opening the gateway to higher energy centers.

[unity100]

Theirs is not 'negativity'. theirs is some kind of imbalance, a problem akin to mental instability, if it was put into this society's everyday terms.

they use that technology to destroy SO much that they destroy their own density. if they had used stronger weapons, they probably would have destroyed mars itself.

moreover they use technology for enslaving other entities. observe the current situation on this planet. entities are enslaved through a system from which noone can get out. even the slavers. not only that, but they are also trying to use digital technology to enslave other entities too.

but there is a problem with that. this is not negative progression. negative form of enslavement has to happen through use of willpower, spirit, concentration of self. how hardly sts willed and concentrated, the rulers of this system currently on this planet do you think ?

not as much as the power they command -> current system runs itself, its a mechanic, it doesnt require comparable will to sustain at all. system maintains itself. not the negative intentions and will of its controllers.

this is why some channelings explicitly state that, the progression in this planet has halted.

the enslavers just reap the benefits, and, they dont even do anything with them. normally, a negatively oriented entity would bolster its self, its pleasures, its aims. the power reaped from the system currently is not even being used for that at all. the majority of power is stuffed in banks, and used to amass even more of the same through the system again, doing nothing but getting amassed.

you dont see extravaganza, self centered acts, self appeasement, self grandeur and so on, comparable to the power they hold. pharaohs have pyramids built with the power they had, for their own selves. and even, those acts were acts that were resulting from the social conditionings of their society, not so very much a personal appeasement or full fledged sts act - it just was thought that it had to be that way. so, compared to sts entities of the past, the current slave holders are doing practically nothing. they are just sitting on top of a self-maintaining pile, and reaping some rewards, and much of it is going to waste, just like how a spoiled child wants a huge cake for birthday, but, only can eat 1-2 plates, and rest gets thrown away or stored in the fridge.

these entities have to be taken to a planetary 'asylum' to be treated of these extreme imbalances. OR, they need to be placed on a planet that is suitable with their distortions. it is evident that the current format this logos uses is not suitable with them anymore. they shouldnt just be randomly hauled into another 3d planet like a normal group of 3d entities.

treatment for their 'doing negative acts with "sincere" positive reasoning' can fix their situation i believe.

---

ha, alternatively, the lightening of the veil in this locale could also fix these entities' problems i think. however that would not alleviate the karma or the conditionings they gained up till this date.

i very much think that, under the basis of this problem, lies the fact that this logos has stressed the 'unity', 'oneness' of creation (therefore 6th ray), heavily weighing the experience in this locale towards that emphasis, but then implementing a heavy veil that cut the 3d entities off from those sublime energies (and especially, even the higher self of entities). and then the entities are also, appallingly, given technology far higher than their spiritual development level at this state. there is not a vision, a direction, an inspiration to follow. not even their own ones. it is a chaotic environment.

so it ends up like having given matches to 5 year old kids to play. and they burn the house. again.

[rilesywilesy]

So it seems basically, maybe half of the woes and problems of this planet of entire 7 billion people, all our wars, control schemes, structures, and way too high technology usage compared to the spiritual levels and all the destruction and problems these bring, we owe to yahweh and their martian children. thats what i concluded after some days of thinking.

Or... we could take responsibility for our own nature...

'our' own nature ?

lets see.

there are denebians, who have been incarnating as chinese, japanese and american indians. these people, right starting with mu, have exhibited a high level of spiritualism and alignment with nature. some of their descendants still worship nature spirits even. and the philosophies are predominantly nature aligned, and devoid of in-built controlling and enslavement mechanisms. they didnt have a tendency for using excessive technology, and didnt have a tendency to use technology to dominate others to no end. they dont have the 'one god one religion all others either submit or die' inclination. endless numbers of philosophies and religions dot their cultures. even in their descendants in south america.

we have scandinavian/celtic group. this group has been the most democratic, free spirited of all groups incarnated on this planet up to date, way into ancient history. even the domination of catholic church in middle ages havent been able to change the nature of their society in some geographies, they have always remained free minded and spirited. they dont have the 'one god, one religion, submit or die' fixation either. it can be argued that they even had a religion before encroachment of catholic infestation.

then there are africans. they exhibit many characteristics, but, technological domination and enslavement of other entities to extreme, and to destructiveness has not been one of them. in regard to thoughts and philosophies, they dont have the 'one god, one religion, submit or die' fixation, except the parts which are being infiltrated by islam in the recent centuries.

then there are martians. they are the embodiment of 'one god one religion, or else'. apparently, their source is indeed the middle east/egypt parts, from what i understand from this yahweh modification business. they have come to these parts after mu, and settled here. and yahweh has been messing with them from these parts. all the geographies and cultures they have interacted with and got into, they eventually dominated them, their philosophies, their religions, and in all places like that exclusive elitist societal structures came into being. the effects of this culture go as far as united states through britain, which is a result of roman dominance, and romans, which are the result of etruscan influence, and etruscans, which are immigrants from western anatolia, and anatolia, which was heavily influenced by middle east inevitably. even gaul transformed from the rather free minded, scandinavian cultured gallic tribes into a strict aristocratic society in a few centuries. and even the liberating influence of germanic tribe settlement that broke innumerable roman slavery traditions havent been able to uproot the influence.

the area around middle east has been the subject of destructive (in scale) wars in ancient times, and it was the source of intolerant 'one god, my god, or else' philosophies starting in mesopotamia area, with small city states trying to subdue others into their god, as a control mechanism. and then, thankfully, yahweh again messed with the area, and around 1600 reinforced this 'one god' business, opening the area up to greater control mechanisms and structures. leading up to an age if intolerance with judaism, christianity, and then islamic conquests and intolerance, and then reciprocal conquests, reaching an area way further than middle east in destructive scope this time.

these particular behavior patterns are not found in other incarnates on this planet. and this is not counting the 13 other minor planetary influences. apparently, the conditions the entities have passed 2d, really affect their cultural nature in 3d. actually its a no brainer, its only natural.

whatever happened in mars during these entities' initial upbringing in 2d and 3d, apparently, has affected them in this way. and they are incessantly repeating a vicious cycle, and causing planetary destruction.

moreover, there are some foolish, naive, harmful parents around, constantly feeding these kids with destructive toys, or giving them the reasons to be spoiled brats, and be harmful to ALL their brothers and sisters in a planetary scale, even causing the incarnates coming from lightyears away to suffer, and adversely affecting their evolution and future.

'adversely affecting' in the preceding sentence is actually an understatement. these entities destroyed their 3d planetary sphere during their 3d experience. apparently caused destruction here during atlantis times and following times too.

it is a no brainer that, if given technology, these entities would again cause such destruction.

they, should NOT have been given technology. its as simple as that. yet, they are being given technology. even what we learn recently from edgar cayce, shows that innumerable atlantean entities incarnated in the west, to bring technology again, and, some of them, were AGAIN using technology for destructive purposes, as what cayce reads about some of them shows us. heaven knows how many martian entities were among these.

and now we have entire governments trying to control and suppress their citizens for the benefit of a minority wealthy elite, AGAIN with some 'good intentioned, positive' storefront (this time 'liberty', 'freedom'), just like how they have done it 'for good' with religions in the preceding thousands of years, and probably heaven knows what 'positive' cause, in the preceding experiental nexuses on other planets.

these entities should not have been given technology again. it doesnt matter whether they think what they are doing is for good, positive, genuinely or not. they are being more harmful, destructive than negative societal complexes combined. even in a negative harvest, there IS actually a negative harvest. ie, entities graduate. an entire planet, or an entire planetary density does not become totally unlivable.

they should have been sent to planets they would have no access to toys, and yahweh shouldnt have been let 2 parsecs near them.

---

oh i forgot - with their latest 'positive' act, they have taken on a vibration meaning 'he is coming', and then thankfully created the basis of what we know as 'armageddon' today. now there are a lot of people waiting for an armageddon and destruction and end of the world. god knows how many in the ruling strata. and whether they are preparing for that with all those repressive 'anti terror' control and spying measures. and there are innumerable people waiting for an 'ascension' to happen too.

even their latest 'positive' act caused a lot of trouble and issues, and, still causing.

Let us not forget that this reality is just a game, that all of us chose to do our series of incarnations here, and that in reality there are no mistakes. Playing the blame game won't help anyone, and these beings are just as if not more so trapped and in need of assistance than those who developed here more naturally.

[unity100]

Let us not forget that this reality is just a game, that all of us chose to do our series of incarnations here, and that in reality there are no mistakes. Playing the blame game won't help anyone, and these beings are just as if not more so trapped and in need of assistance than those who developed here more naturally.

actually there are mistakes, there are do's and donts. had it not been otherwise, there would be no logic for the central logos, the creation to gain experience, and build a new creation on the experience of the last creation. instead, everything would just be random as it goes. however, it isnt. any given creation, is based on the experiences and refinement of the earlier.

and in the light of this :

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...8#pid22028

[rilesywilesy]

Everything is an orchestration, even if from the perspective of heavier (lower) illusions where they seem like "mistakes", still all is chosen and all is as it should be. It is impossible for things to be random, there really is no randomness at all, pattern is everywhere, and all patterns are connected, and that includes the events which have taken place and are taking place on this planet. They are only mistakes from the perspective of being within the illusion.

[unity100]

Everything is an orchestration, even if from the perspective of heavier (lower) illusions where they seem like "mistakes", still all is chosen and all is as it should be. It is impossible for things to be random, there really is no randomness at all, pattern is everywhere, and all patterns are connected, and that includes the events which have taken place and are taking place on this planet. They are only mistakes from the perspective of being within the illusion.

first, if everything is orchestration, that means there is no free will.

if there is no randomness and all things happen for a reason, than it means some things happen in order for entities to learn that some things should not be done.

if all patterns are connected, then it means, just like how it is not desired for a microcosm of an individual soul to be destroyed, a planet also should not get destroyed.

and there is no 'illusion'. everything as real as it is, at their given time. had it been otherwise, there could be no possibility of wanderers coming to this octave, from the next octave. or, there would be no higher self phenomenon, in which an entity looks back at its self from its own future, and helps/aids the progression of the past entity.

these mean that, if someone goes back in time, s/he still finds the existence, universe as it was, at that given point in time. what state the universe was in, is always there, at that state, at that given time. it wasnt 'oh but a passing illusion' -> had it been so, once it passed, there would be nothing left of it. you couldnt go back in time and find it exactly there, happening, 'then and now'.

in short, there are things that should not be done, and should be done, however one approaches anything.

[@ndy]

Regardless, I am going to accept them to live with me on this planet anyways.

Unconditional Love and compassion is the threshold for opening the gateway to higher energy centers.

Me too Us/them stuff is only perpetuating the problem, it is only threw love and acceptance that there can be a move towards unity.

Theirs is not 'negativity'. theirs is some kind of imbalance, a problem akin to mental instability, if it was put into this society's everyday terms.

In mental instability there is still much to be learnt, what is unstable to one may be comfortable to another.... if it's not then there is a seeking to a place of comfort or equilibrium

[Eddie]

Me too Us/them stuff is only perpetuating the problem, it is only threw love and acceptance that there can be a move towards unity.

If you view the world as "Us" and "Them", there will always be a "Them", no matter how many of "them" you get rid of.........

[unity100]

Regardless, I am going to accept them to live with me on this planet anyways.

Unconditional Love and compassion is the threshold for opening the gateway to higher energy centers.

Me too Us/them stuff is only perpetuating the problem, it is only threw love and acceptance that there can be a move towards unity.

Me too Us/them stuff is only perpetuating the problem, it is only threw love and acceptance that there can be a move towards unity.

If you view the world as "Us" and "Them", there will always be a "Them", no matter how many of "them" you get rid of.........

unfortunately, there is always 'us' and 'them' and 'they' and 'others' at any given point in existence. anything takes its place according to its needs, and its suitability. nothing can be placed where they shouldnt be, unless to make a point and teach things.

at the very start, you are in 3d. why arent you in 7d as of now ? because you are not suitable for it, or, proper for it.

also, you do not live in a jungle bed with 2d entities. why ? because, your current vibration requires various conditions to function. you cant keep dribbling in mud, and still manifest complex manifestations. similarly, innumerable 2d entities are not able to live with you, because they will bite your head off or cause you other trouble that will hamper your progress.

and even more, you are in this logos/locale, despite being a product of, very probably another planet. youre from one of approx 16+ planets that sent 3d entities to this world. you are here. you are not in another. youre not in a 3d planet that is very close to the core, and still has no veiling. or, youre not in another galaxy in another 3d planet.

youre here, with this crowd, not with others, because this was the thing your current violet balance and mental conditionings, and karma, was providing for.

similarly, ra was not able to function when they incarnated in other galaxies as wanderers, as they relay us, due to differences in metaphysical archetypes (mind, etc).

that tells us ; there are groups that are suitable with each other, and there are those who cannot mix with each other.

i personally classify a group destroying entire planetary densities or planets, as one of the ones that shouldnt be mixed with others. especially if there are spoiling parents who are giving them matches incessantly.

this is like a 16 children family, and parents spoiling one of them who likes to burn down the house while playing with matches, jeopardizing lives of all his/her brothers and sisters and parents.

and unity does not mean being a fool, and just keep giving the kid matches, and then buying new houses for him/her to burn down, and then going to kids and saying 'oh, but kids, s/he is your brother/sister, we are all one, you have to accept him and what is going on here as it is'.

accepting a kid does not mean holding him same with others and letting him constantly burn houses. that kid, belongs to the therapist's room, and, in extreme cases, a clinic. and if the parents insist on keeping the kid as it is, and, insist on giving him matches, then the parents also belong in a clinic, and certainly has to be kept away from kids, and matches.

4d love may fringe on foolishness. it is normal for that. there may be fixated, loving parents who keep giving one of their children matches to play.

however, the concept of unity, does not fringe near foolishness. unity, unison, includes wisdom and love at the same time.

Theirs is not 'negativity'. theirs is some kind of imbalance, a problem akin to mental instability, if it was put into this society's everyday terms.

In mental instability there is still much to be learnt, what is unstable to one may be comfortable to another.... if it's not then there is a seeking to a place of comfort or equilibrium

how would you like to continue the rest of your spiritual studies in a mental asylum just for the sake of it then ? and ditch all of this ? you can draw innumerable conclusions by watching a patient that constantly scratches his head, instead of talking, for example. there is probably the meaning of infinite densities hidden in that head scratch.

.............

this is a rather free-to-shoot, generic justification ; 'there is much to learn'.

had there been much to learn in an asylum to the point of justifying putting pyromaniac kids with their functional siblings, the entire existence would have been arranged as an asylum. if we are talking with metaphors.

[zenmaster]

If here, in this illusion, we determine patterns and speak about them - and are then judged to be perpetuating negativity, that is a misunderstanding. The intentions and will of individuals are what can cause suffering, not their evaluations alone.

Also, it's impossible to have unification without having gone through 'separation' (the separation that this place purposely engenders). Therefore, if we think that it's only through love and acceptance, we are quite wrong - and are probably still in Green vMeme stage, where that inflated ideology first appears.

[unity100]

all that aside, 4d love means accepting DESPITE differences and problems. anyone working on 4d love, but, ignoring differences and problems and then thinking that s/he is loving (with 4d love) whatever objective is in question of that love, would be questionable in that regard; ignoring differences makes 4d love easy. if that can be called 4d love at all.

4 love should happen, DESPITE the differences. you cant do that kind of act, without seeing and acknowledging differences.

---

there are actually much more important implications of this subject, than what has been expressed by anyone, up until this point.

[Monica]

all that aside, 4d love means accepting DESPITE differences and problems. anyone working on 4d love, but, ignoring differences and problems and then thinking that s/he is loving (with 4d love) whatever objective is in question of that love, would be questionable in that regard; ignoring differences makes 4d love easy. if that can be called 4d love at all.

4 love should happen, DESPITE the differences. you cant do that kind of act, without seeing and acknowledging differences.

Agreed! Glossing over something in order to feel love/compassion isn't really love; it's denial. If the only way to love is to deny the atrocities, then that isn't really love. Love is having one's eyes wide open, being totally honest and still loving and accepting them anyway.

there are actually much more important implications of this subject, than what has been expressed by anyone, up until this point.

Please do elaborate on what you think are the important implications.

There seems to be some overlapping between this thread and this one:

Strictly Law of One > Yahweh, the Children of Israel, and the Orion Group

I just posted my thoughts on why I think it's important. I am interested in hearing yours.

[unity100]

there are actually much more important implications of this subject, than what has been expressed by anyone, up until this point.

Please do elaborate on what you think are the important implications.


Strictly Law of One > Yahweh, the Children of Israel, and the Orion Group

I just posted my thoughts on why I think it's important. I am interested in hearing yours.

its quite simple actually. anyone who was 'studying' Law of One and had reflected on this deeper than its surface, would realize it :

- yahweh, were guardians.

- these entities, were, even at the time they were guardians, were unwise to the point of being able to slight the entities they favored or felt akin to, over others : they didnt even think that giving more powerful, able or beautiful bodies to the martian entities they were responsible for, would be slighting the other incarnates. what was the fault of other entities that came from other planets that, they didnt deserve more advanced 3d bodies ?! it was apparent that, in various regards, yahweh society complex was lacking and imbalanced.

- Yahweh entities were at the level of being guardians. these entities, had either carried these imbalances up till this point right through their evolution, or gained these imbalances during recent times. in either case, it means a lack of violet balance to get distorted like that - had they been strong in balance enough, it would be harder to develop such distortion later. and if they carried those distortions/imbalances right up to the level of guardianship, it means they were imbalanced all the way up there.

- The above means, distortions/imbalances can be carried out throughout densities, and/or, they can be incurred in any given density, if the violet balance is not solid enough.

- There are many wanderers on this planet. majority of them, we are told, are from 6d. we do not know, how long until a society complex an entity here belongs to, may be taking responsibility on guardian level. EVEN if that is 2 densities away for a 6d society complex, it may still be a 'too close' 'time' scale, compared to the greater scale of later densities. so that, any non-ironed out imbalance, may be carried through all those endless densities. just like how yahweh did.

- If, this kind of guardianship happens in lower densities than 7, it means that that kind of imbalance, distortion can be manifested even readily by 6d complexes.

so, the conclusion is that, this matter is a very important delicate matter of balance, for any wanderer here. because, they will be returning to their society complexes, and them or their complexes may take responsibility in doing any kind of delicate work like this. im in the opinion that, if the reflection is done in a hard, concentrated density like this (3d in these places take too little time compared to other places, only 75,000 years, they are condensed, as we are told) then the reflection and evaluation of this case would be sharper and more vivid, and the society complex that the entity is a member of, would be able to make use of it.

[@ndy]

unfortunately, there is always 'us' and 'them' and 'they' and 'others' at any given point in existence.

That is a way of seeing it. It's not the only way.
Think of water - It can be in many forms, many places, many drops - it's still water.

at the very start, you are in 3d. why arent you in 7d as of now ? because you are not suitable for it, or, proper for it.

Is it possible that we are not in many places all at once?

also, you do not live in a jungle bed with 2d entities. why ? because, your current vibration requires various conditions to function. you cant keep dribbling in mud, and still manifest complex manifestations. similarly, innumerable 2d entities are not able to live with you, because they will bite your head off or cause you other trouble that will hamper your progress.

Again this seems to to be looking at it in a very limited way, I have no idea what I am - certainly bit of me is here, I may also be a tick on a hedgehogs bum.

even more, you are in this logos/locale, despite being a product of, very probably another planet. youre from one of approx 16+ planets that sent 3d entities to this world. you are here. you are not in another. youre not in a 3d planet that is very close to the core, and still has no veiling. or, youre not in another galaxy in another 3d planet.

youre here, with this crowd, not with others, because this was the thing your current violet balance and mental conditionings, and karma, was providing for.

and I feel very greatful for it

similarly, ra was not able to function when they incarnated in other galaxies as wanderers, as they relay us, due to differences in metaphysical archetypes (mind, etc).

that tells us ; there are groups that are suitable with each other, and there are those who cannot mix with each other.

i personally classify a group destroying entire planetary densities or planets, as one of the ones that shouldnt be mixed with others. especially if there are spoiling parents who are giving them matches incessantly.

this is like a 16 children family, and parents spoiling one of them who likes to burn down the house while playing with matches, jeopardizing lives of all his/her brothers and sisters and parents.

and unity does not mean being a fool, and just keep giving the kid matches, and then buying new houses for him/her to burn down, and then going to kids and saying 'oh, but kids, s/he is your brother/sister, we are all one, you have to accept him and what is going on here as it is'.

accepting a kid does not mean holding him same with others and letting him constantly burn houses. that kid, belongs to the therapist's room, and, in extreme cases, a clinic. and if the parents insist on keeping the kid as it is, and, insist on giving him matches, then the parents also belong in a clinic, and certainly has to be kept away from kids, and matches.

I agree that letting them keep burning down houses would be a silly thing to do. Putting them in therapy - is that not making it someone else’s problem?
If it were my child I'd be keen to know were I was going wrong as a parent - want to know more about my child and see if there was a better outlet for there love of fire.

4d love may fringe on foolishness. it is normal for that. there may be fixated, loving parents who keep giving one of their children matches to play.

however, the concept of unity, does not fringe near foolishness. unity, unison, includes wisdom and love at the same time.

I'd agree with this. I also believe in allowing people the freedom to express there selves.
I can't know the lessons people need to learn for them selves, and wouldn't like to assume that I do.
I agree that when interfering with others that you need to consider if your 'help' is truly needed - or is helpful.

how would you like to continue the rest of your spiritual studies in a mental asylum just for the sake of it then ? and ditch all of this ? you can draw innumerable conclusions by watching a patient that constantly scratches his head, instead of talking, for example. there is probably the meaning of infinite densities hidden in that head scratch.

I've had friends spend time in hospitals, it has been a lesson for them at that time on there path.
Personally - at the moment, I feel no need to be in a mental health unit
Though were I to enter one for what ever reason, I'm sure I would find things to learn there.

[Ali Quadir]

Good points @ndy, what tends to get forgotten in discussions like this is that all of our experience is specific to us. We easily put the blame outside, then not work on it.

Ok, so there's some hypothetical race of bloodthirsty monsters.

Why are they here, how did we invite them? How are they and us processing karma together?

I go with the witches saying "Even if it's not my fault it's still my responsibility"

Otherwise you just get stuck in the blame/victim routines that are the number one passtime on this world.

[@ndy]

so, the conclusion is that, this matter is a very important delicate matter of balance, for any wanderer here. because, they will be returning to their society complexes, and them or their complexes may take responsibility in doing any kind of delicate work like this. im in the opinion that, if the reflection is done in a hard, concentrated density like this (3d in these places take too little time compared to other places, only 75,000 years, they are condensed, as we are told) then the reflection and evaluation of this case would be sharper and more vivid, and the society complex that the entity is a member of, would be able to make use of it.

I'd agree with your conclusion, reflection and consideration is helpful to grow

What is confusing for me is you seem to be implying that the Guardians should regret the choices they made.
I'm not sure that regret is a useful tool for growth.

[Monica]

I have no idea what I am - certainly bit of me is here, I may also be a tick on a hedgehogs bum.

HAHA!

I agree that letting them keep burning down houses would be a silly thing to do. Putting them in therapy - is that not making it someone else’s problem?
If it were my child I'd be keen to know were I was going wrong as a parent - want to know more about my child and see if there was a better outlet for there love of fire.

Of course the parents want to help their child, whether thru therapy or whatever means is appropriate. But I think the point of the analogy is, that no responsible (presumably STO-oriented) parent would knowingly allow their child to harm others on a grand scale such as burning down a house or setting off a bomb at school. There has to be limits to parental permissiveness, if the child is to integrate into society.

I'd agree with this. I also believe in allowing people the freedom to express there selves.

Sure. But not if that expression harms others! One person's freedom ends where another's begins.

I can't know the lessons people need to learn for them selves, and wouldn't like to assume that I do.
I agree that when interfering with others that you need to consider if your 'help' is truly needed - or is helpful.

True. But who among us would not stop to help a victim about to get raped or murdered? We'd call the police, at the very least, right?

I've had friends spend time in hospitals, it has been a lesson for them at that time on there path.
Personally - at the moment, I feel no need to be in a mental health unit
Though were I to enter one for what ever reason, I'm sure I would find things to learn there.

I think this was just an analogy being offered, to show that souls cohabiting with other souls who like to blow up planets, is akin to sane people living in a mental hospital with dangerous psychopaths.

To carry the analogy further, we know that all the souls deposited on this planet had some degree of mental illness, but, were they all of the inclination to blow up planets? Or were some more or less prone to violence than others? Furthermore, and more importantly, should the mental patients be allowed to play with bombs while confined to the hospital, when the bombs are powerful enough to blow up the neighbors next door?

---

What is confusing for me is you seem to be implying that the Guardians should regret the choices they made.
I'm not sure that regret is a useful tool for growth.

I think regret is a very useful tool for growth. Don't we all regret mistakes we've made? How else do we learn from those mistakes?

Regret is often confused with guilt.

Both are useful, for a time. Where they become counterproductive is when they linger past the point of reflection.

They serve a purpose: To alert us to a choice that was less than optimal, for whatever reason. Regret serves to trigger reflection about that choice, so we can learn from that experience, and make different choices next time.

If not for the mechanism of regret, how would the convicted murderer ever learn from his actions?

Regret is a temporary state. Once it has served its purpose of bringing the matter to our attention, then we can let it go, replacing it with forgiveness, along with resolve to make more efficient, more optimal choices next time.

It's only when the person hangs on the regret or guilt after they have served their purpose, that it's unhealthy.

If we were part of the decision-making process that set up conditions on this planet, it could be healthy for us to reflect on those decisions, maybe have regret about them, in order to program our future selves to make different choices next time. Just as we do in our 3D lives. Do we not all handle regret, as part of the healing and forgiveness process, on a daily basis? It is part of the process.

To avoid feelings of regret, when they may be appropriate, is being in denial. THAT is unhealthy, imo.

[@ndy]

Of course the parents want to help their child, whether thru therapy or whatever means is appropriate. But I think the point of the analogy is, that no responsible (presumably STO-oriented) parent would knowingly allow their child to harm others on a grand scale such as burning down a house or setting off a bomb at school. There has to be limits to parental permissiveness, if the child is to integrate into society.

I agree, but wasn't Yahweh doing what they believed to be the right thing.
Just as a parent would try and help, the infant still has free will.
The parent can't know in advance what the child will do with that - but dose what they think to be the best for the child.

Sure. But not if that expression harms others! One person's freedom ends where another's begins.

Totally, but hindsight is a wonderful thing when we make a choice to help, it can't be known in advance what the ultimate outcome will be.

True. But who among us would not stop to help a victim about to get raped or murdered? We'd call the police, at the very least, right?

Absolutely, most of us would go much further.
There is muddy water though, and that is more were I was coming from.
A child who may be drug dependant begging his parents for money for a 'fix' -- they can see the withdrawal and pain he is going threw.
Someone asking for money for something that they could earn them selves.
Someone looking for someone else to take responsibility or blame for there actions.
We all know people who are a little lazy and would benefit from helping themselves. It's more situations like this I am referring too - were the best way to 'help' is not always clear cut.

I think this was just an analogy being offered, to show that souls cohabiting with other souls who like to blow up planets, is akin to sane people living in a mental hospital with dangerous psychopaths.

To carry the analogy further, we know that all the souls deposited on this planet had some degree of mental illness, but, were they all of the inclination to blow up planets? Or were some more or less prone to violence than others? Furthermore, and more importantly, should the mental patients be allowed to play with bombs while confined to the hospital, when the bombs are powerful enough to blow up the neighbors next door?

---

I guess I'm not sure I feel comfortable making a judgment on the state of these souls. Especially not from my limited 3d view.

To say they were faulty, or wrong I'm just not prepared to say that :-/
It would be like judging say animals - parasite or a song bird.... one isn't better than the other they both just are, they have a place in the bigger picture.

I think regret is a very useful tool for growth. Don't we all regret mistakes we've made? How else do we learn from those mistakes?

Regret is often confused with guilt.

Both are useful, for a time. Where they become counterproductive is when they linger past the point of reflection.

They serve a purpose: To alert us to a choice that was less than optimal, for whatever reason. Regret serves to trigger reflection about that choice, so we can learn from that experience, and make different choices next time.

If not for the mechanism of regret, how would the convicted murderer ever learn from his actions?

Regret is a temporary state. Once it has served its purpose of bringing the matter to our attention, then we can let it go, replacing it with forgiveness, along with resolve to make more efficient, more optimal choices next time.

It's only when the person hangs on the regret or guilt after they have served their purpose, that it's unhealthy.

If we were part of the decision-making process that set up conditions on this planet, it could be healthy for us to reflect on those decisions, maybe have regret about them, in order to program our future selves to make different choices next time. Just as we do in our 3D lives. Do we not all handle regret, as part of the healing and forgiveness process, on a daily basis? It is part of the process.

To avoid feelings of regret, when they may be appropriate, is being in denial. THAT is unhealthy, imo.

I'm no expert on emotion, but as you say regret is something temporary.
I'm not suggesting that we don't analyze what we do, Or that Denial is helpful. Or we stop learning from things we do.

I'm just not sure why the need for denial or regret if Yahweh has acted with only the interests of helping others.
That suggests that one way is better than the other or they made a mistake - it may have been different, but who are we to guess if it would have been better.
I find life here pritty amazing for all it's ups and downs.

[unity100]

unfortunately, there is always 'us' and 'them' and 'they' and 'others' at any given point in existence.

That is a way of seeing it. It's not the only way.
Think of water - It can be in many forms, many places, many drops - it's still water.

it is not water. it is waves on the water. the waves and ripples occurring out of the water are what are considered as 'entities' that 'exists'. thats the definition of existence - vibrating ripples of water.

and, there are infinite refractions, and each refraction is different. else there would be little point to have infinite refractions.

however that is a too deep way to look at them.

you are not able to do 6d work, while incarnated in a 2d body in 2d planetary conditions. and, a 2d entity cannot incarnate in a 6d body to do 6d work in 6d.

there are places that things fit.

Is it possible that we are not in many places all at once?

no it isnt. if you are here, then you are not somewhere else.

the particular face of your multi-faceted existence that is you, is concentrated on this existence now. the fact that there is probably another face of your multi-faceted existence concentrating and looking at some other reality, does not make you, that face.

being united does not mean you are exactly what you are united with.

Again this seems to to be looking at it in a very limited way, I have no idea what I am - certainly bit of me is here, I may also be a tick on a hedgehogs bum.

as above.

and I feel very greatful for it

thats great. for your next incarnation, you may choose to incarnate on a planet some 3d crowd may have tethering on the brink of total destruction. what a thrill.

I agree that letting them keep burning down houses would be a silly thing to do. Putting them in therapy - is that not making it someone else’s problem?

im sure there are specialized sources in this universe, which are experts in dealing with such stuff and healing things.

tho, the natural way would be to have whomever broke it, fix it. but :

If it were my child I'd be keen to know were I was going wrong as a parent - want to know more about my child and see if there was a better outlet for there love of fire.

in this particular case, the parents need to be kept away from the children themselves. hence, the quarantine.

I'd agree with this. I also believe in allowing people the freedom to express there selves.
I can't know the lessons people need to learn for them selves, and wouldn't like to assume that I do.
I agree that when interfering with others that you need to consider if your 'help' is truly needed - or is helpful.

moreover, for ANYthing to happen, there has to be some place that things can happen first.

in physical incarnation context of 3d, that is a planet. there has to be planet, for there to be a 3d incarnation. if there is no planet, there cant be an incarnation.

it is beyond logical to let any student blow up entire planets.

how would you like to continue the rest of your spiritual studies in a mental asylum just for the sake of it then ? and ditch all of this ? you can draw innumerable conclusions by watching a patient that constantly scratches his head, instead of talking, for example. there is probably the meaning of infinite densities hidden in that head scratch.

I've had friends spend time in hospitals, it has been a lesson for them at that time on there path.

you are escaping the context here. in the context you put it, it wouldnt be 'spending time' in hospitals. it would be having everyone live in an asylum.

Personally - at the moment, I feel no need to be in a mental health unit
Though were I to enter one for what ever reason, I'm sure I would find things to learn there.

so, then, it happens to be that you actually dont need to be in a mental health unit, for whatever reason .... in the rather exaggerating approach you made for the benefits of a place with conditions of asylum, it sounded like anyone would be ripping their clothes off to be able to get into an asylum for spiritual progression.

that's my point.

Ok, so there's some hypothetical race of bloodthirsty monsters.

a race of bloodthirsty monsters, would have some stability, direction. they would thirst for blood, but they would not destroy the source they were getting the blood from.

however, in this case, these entities are destroying their very existence even. destroying souls.

Why are they here, how did we invite them? How are they and us processing karma together?

noone invited them. they were put here, by a guardian race, for 3d incarnations.

other guardians, the council governing this locale, has allowed it.

I go with the witches saying "Even if it's not my fault it's still my responsibility"

Otherwise you just get stuck in the blame/victim routines that are the number one passtime on this world.

no, its not your responsibility, if you are not directly responsible for it.

another entity cannot go around taking responsibility for other entities. there is no end to that.

and, doing as such would constitute 'learning in place of another'.

I'd agree with your conclusion, reflection and consideration is helpful to grow

What is confusing for me is you seem to be implying that the Guardians should regret the choices they made.
I'm not sure that regret is a useful tool for growth.

it doesnt matter how they approached the reflection matter. regret, reflect, whatever they will do, they need to do.

i would say that the scope of the mistake here is on a regret level.

I agree, but wasn't Yahweh doing what they believed to be the right thing.
Just as a parent would try and help, the infant still has free will.
The parent can't know in advance what the child will do with that - but dose what they think to be the best for the child.

and so ? how does that even begin to alleviate the situation ?

while martians were blowing up entire 3d on their planet, they were genuinely thinking that they were doing it for 'good', and positive causes, as we are told. actually it seems this was a general pattern.

it doesnt have much difference from conquering societies and enslaving them for 'good' and true religion.

I'm just not sure why the need for denial or regret if Yahweh has acted with only the interests of helping others.
That suggests that one way is better than the other or they made a mistake - it may have been different, but who are we to guess if it would have been better.
I find life here pritty amazing for all it's ups and downs.

yahweh allowed the 3d entities they were responsible for, to blow up an entire planetary density.

then, they brought them here, and gave them better bodies (why were the other incarnates undeserving of those better bodies, again ?). moreover, they have tried to mate with them to make some of them even bigger.

doing screwups or negative acts with the intention of 'helping others' does NOT change the results.

'oh, i blew up an entire galaxy - but i was intending of helping !!!'

.........

[Monica]

I agree, but wasn't Yahweh doing what they believed to be the right thing.
Just as a parent would try and help, the infant still has free will.
The parent can't know in advance what the child will do with that - but dose what they think to be the best for the child.

I think we've strayed far from the original analogy, which was to illustrate the wisdom (or lack thereof) of a parent knowingly allowing their child to harm others on a massive scale. This isn't a 'maybe' but after the fact. In this case, the children had already been violent on a massive scale. So to give those children the means to repeat it, would be akin to a parent giving the materials to build a homemade bomb, to a child who has already succeeded in blowing up the school.

The philosophical question is whether giving the child more bomb-making materials, and thus endangering his classmates, is the wisest choice for finding out whether he's learned his lesson or not.

That's the analogy being offered here.

We all know people who are a little lazy and would benefit from helping themselves. It's more situations like this I am referring too - were the best way to 'help' is not always clear cut.

Yes, I agree, it's not always clear-cut.

For purposes of the analogy, I was trying to make the point that we wouldn't let our children harm others, just because they wanted to.

[@ndy]

you are not able to do 6d work, while incarnated in a 2d body in 2d planetary conditions. and, a 2d entity cannot incarnate in a 6d body to do 6d work in 6d.

there are places that things fit.

I'm not sure I compleatly agree with you here, But I'll come along with you.
Is it the place that this fits for you to make the calls you are making now?
I somehow feel trying to pick this apart with logic and our limited knowledge from a 3D place a strange endeavour given what you just said.

no it isnt. if you are here, then you are not somewhere else.

the particular face of your multi-faceted existence that is you, is concentrated on this existence now. the fact that there is probably another face of your multi-faceted existence concentrating and looking at some other reality, does not make you, that face.

being united does not mean you are exactly what you are united with.

Again, I’m not totally with you here.
See my issue is - what if part of my existence here gives me a sniff of that 'somewhere else’ enough for me to know it's there and it's every bit as real as this.
Would that not be enough let me consider what it's like outside the box for a mo.

thats great. for your next incarnation, you may choose to incarnate on a planet some 3d crowd may have tethering on the brink of total destruction. what a thrill.

I'm not really sure I understand you here tbh.
I'd imagine there would be some fairly intense experience living in a place like that..... I'm not sure 'thrill' is appropriate, but if I felt that I could bring something useful to a place like that then why not try.
Just like some people chose to work as medics in rapid response units.

im sure there are specialized sources in this universe, which are experts in dealing with such stuff and healing things.

I'm sure there probably is too

in this particular case, the parents need to be kept away from the children themselves. hence, the quarantine.

If I'm not mistaken the quarantine is more to prevent further external influence rather than the guardians influence.

moreover, for ANYthing to happen, there has to be some place that things can happen first.

in physical incarnation context of 3d, that is a planet. there has to be planet, for there to be a 3d incarnation. if there is no planet, there cant be an incarnation.

it is beyond logical to let any student blow up entire planets.

Right here on earth there are entities destroying habitat all the time. It's not logical - not smart yet it happens.

you are escaping the context here. in the context you put it, it wouldnt be 'spending time' in hospitals. it would be having everyone live in an asylum.

My context was that you judged these entities to be unstable.
What I ment was that that is your judgment.... not something I'd be happy to make myself.
I can't help that I look outside the box at this - I just do. Like I mentioned in the other thread I don't feel I'm in a place to judge anything but my own actions.

so, then, it happens to be that you actually dont need to be in a mental health unit, for whatever reason .... in the rather exaggerating approach you made for the benefits of a place with conditions of asylum, it sounded like anyone would be ripping their clothes off to be able to get into an asylum for spiritual progression.

that's my point.

My point is that there is lessons to be learn and a way to learn from were ever we find ourselves at any time.
I'm not saying we should try to get into an asylum but to make the most of the place that you are at.

it doesnt matter how they approached the reflection matter. regret, reflect, whatever they will do, they need to do.

i would say that the scope of the mistake here is on a regret level.

Why?

and so ? how does that even begin to alleviate the situation ?

I'm probably going to regret asking this, but hey ho.... What situation?

yahweh allowed the 3d entities they were responsible for, to blow up an entire planetary density.

Why/How do you suggest they should have stopped them?

then, they brought them here, and gave them better bodies (why were the other incarnates undeserving of those better bodies, again ?). moreover, they have tried to mate with them to make some of them even bigger.

doing screwups or negative acts with the intention of 'helping others' does NOT change the results.

What do you see as the result?