Ayahuasca – A discussion

[YinYang]

Okay, so many years ago, I think it was 2006, I first heard about ayahuasca, from this National Geographic article – Peru: Hell and Back

And I have been fascinated with it ever since, although I have never taken it. Not long after I learned about it, I read Peter Gorman’s book Ayahuasca in My Blood: 25 Years of Medicine Dreaming.

Now I don’t know if any of you have read it, but he was quite a cowboy with the medicine. Lots went wrong (and right), but there’s a tremendous amount of black magic in the book. It is also an extremely honest book, he holds nothing back, and it’s the kind of book that you just cannot put down. I have read it twice now.

So a few years ago I researched online to see if there is somebody in my country (South Africa) who does ayahuasca ceremonies, and I found a group who has regular ceremonies. I wrote to the guy who founded the group, and we have chatted on and off over the years via email, and I joined their facebook group. I just really wanted to check out this group thoroughly before I get acquainted with them. So I always read their posts on Facebook, where everyone writes about their auahuasca experiences, and it’s all predominantly positive. I also read all his blog articles, just to see if we’re at least philosophically more or less on the same page, and that’s a yes. His favourite book is Oneness by Rasha. He's also very humorous and light-hearted, which counts big points with me.

I will definitely do it with this group if and when I do it. I had to find a local group, because out currency has pretty much reached junk status, so a Peruvian adventure is not on the cards any time soon, will cost a fortune, and it looks to me like Ayahuasca tourism has led to many opportunists in Peru, so all in all very murky waters to navigate over there! This group puts a huge amount of energy into a ceremony, with drumming, didgeridoos and fire choreographers, to get the festive juices flowing, before they administer the medicine, switches off the lights and then start singing icaros.

I guess some of the things I wonder about is this: would a wanderer not be a target in those realms? And is Auahuasca not the lazy man’s path to enlightenment, albeit briefly before you return to planet earth?

While this group predominantly works with ayahuasca, I looks like they occasionally experiment with Iboga and San Pedro as well. Don’t ask me how they get it into the country…

Interestingly, we have an Ibogaine Wellness Centre close to where I live, where they administer ibogaine intravenously to drug addicts and trauma victims. Because Western countries are so tight on DMT, foreigners fly in from all over for treatment at this clinic. Much like ayahuasca, iboga has a very good track record with drug addiction.

Sooo, has anyone here taken Ayahuasca? What was it like? Has it changed your life?

Something tells me Ayahuasca and wanderers go together like strawberries and cream!

[Jade]

I personally have yet to do an ayahuasca ceremony. I think if you go into it with a purely open heart, you will be safe. Of course, if you're meant to experience a trip with an ego death, you will still do that. But if you're afraid of any negative influence or anything like that, I'd let that go. Even when the negative entity arranged for Carla to take LSD (non natural substance), the worst that it could do was energize her distortions toward physical exertion, which weakened her health for a while making it harder to do Ra sessions. She was totally able to use the experience in a way to polarize positively, and her subsequent health issues gave Don and Jim a reason to serve her as well.

Anyway, it sounds like you've put a lot of thought/time into this experience and have found a compatible group. I do not think something like ayahuasca as a "lazy man's tool" to enlightenment - from what I've read it's usually a very intense experience. You still have to process to catalyst after the event. It's a way to manually thin the veil, but it's also not an easy thing to go through - it's not like you can just go buy some ayahuasca at the store. So no, not lazy. But I think it invokes the Law of Responsibility, being that you are using this highly advanced tool, that you must be dedicated to integrate/utilize what you learn.

I've done psilocybin before and I'd do it again in a heartbeat!! I'd probably enjoy an ayahuasca ceremony as well, but in that case it's really the trip to Peru that makes my heart sing louder.

[YinYang]

But I think it invokes the Law of Responsibility, being that you are using this highly advanced tool, that you must be dedicated to integrate/utilize what you learn.

Yes, very important point!

I'd probably enjoy an ayahuasca ceremony as well, but in that case it's really the trip to Peru that makes my heart sing louder.

Yeah, there's just something about the Amazon! I wrote to Peter Gorman after I read his book, to tell him what a page turner it was! He's just a wonderful guy. This is his blog. One of his techniques when using Auahuasca to keep the neggies away, was to ask "are you my teacher?", and he says if they were negative, they would just depart.

[Blunt Force]

I am sure it already has it's full shamanistic audience. There are native entheogens at any region/country. And regular intake will benefit health and metabolism.

[Spaced]

I believe Sabou just recently made a trip to Peru to take part in an ayahuasca ceremony. Sabou? You around?

[Nicholas]

Graham Hancock talks briefly about his experience with Ayahuasca in his Ted talk. He got a bit of a kicking from it as he had been a pot head (dope smoker) for 15 years. I myself have not taken it, but it sounds to me like syncing up with intelligent energy. The experience depends on how far off track the individual is imo.

[YinYang]

Yes, I watched the Graham Hancock talk, and I also sometimes listen to podcasts where Hamilton Souther is interviewed (owner of Blue Morpho retreat in the Peruvian Amazon), who is featured in the National Geographic article I mentioned in my original post. He has some interesting stories to tell, after having drunk the brew more than a 1000 times. During some of their ceremonies, actual thought-forms have sometimes manifested, where the head curandero had to make it disappear again.

it sounds to me like syncing up with intelligent energy

Or intelligent infinity... who knows? I remember Don once had a meditation experience (was it during meditation?), where he said the colours he saw there made our world look like black and white, and that's something you often hear from people who have taken Ayahuasca, and then I must admit it sounds a LOT like 4th density... everyone can read each other's minds, music can be seen...

[Nicholas]

Yes, I watched the Graham Hancock talk, and I also sometimes listen to podcasts where Hamilton Souther is interviewed (owner of Blue Morpho retreat in the Peruvian Amazon), who is featured in the National Geographic article I mentioned in my original post. He has some interesting stories to tell, after having drunk the brew more than a 1000 times. During some of their ceremonies, actual thought-forms have sometimes manifested, where the head curandero had to make it disappear again.

it sounds to me like syncing up with intelligent energy

Or intelligent infinity... who knows? I remember Don once had a meditation experience (was it during meditation?), where he said the colours he saw there made our world look like black and white, and that's something you often hear from people who have taken Ayahuasca, and then I must admit it sounds a LOT like 4th density... everyone can read each other's minds, music can be seen...

I assume intelligent energy because the plant itself is a manifestation of intelligent infinity.  But yeah, who knows indeed! 

I recall Dons experience to having his arm glow blue, and Ra attributed that as being an inniatory message from his higher self. Nothing to do with ayahuasca, I recall. 

I very much agree that it is a 4th density curtain ripper though! I have taken LSD and psilocybin mushrooms a plenty (don't ask!). So my DMT chenanigens might be relatable, somewhat.

[YinYang]

I recall Dons experience to having his arm glow blue, and Ra attributed that as being an inniatory message from his higher self. Nothing to do with ayahuasca, I recall.

No it wasn't ayahuasca, I just remember him telling of this other world, which makes our world look like a black and white photograph... it could also have been one of his regression subjects who said it. Might even have been in Secrets of the UFO.

I very much agree that it is a 4th density curtain ripper though! I have taken LSD and psilocybin mushrooms a plenty (don't ask!). So my DMT chenanigens might be relatable, somewhat.

Only time I had LSD was when I was 19, and it was one of the best experiences of my life. I walked through this lane of trees in the dark, and they started closing up behind me, not scary, just magical. We grew up very sheltered and conservative, so I had this self-imposed "once rule". Only once and then never again. Felt guilty for looong afterwards. Thank goodness I was able to break out of that conformity.

[AnthroHeart]

Pharmahuasca caused my schizophrenia, so I'm not so quick to try it again.

[YinYang]

Found it! Book 5!

Carla: Don had several experiences of altered consciousness that were permanently etched into his mind. The initiation he spoke of here was received in 1968, while we were in meditation together. He suddenly found himself in a world where the colors were living. He said these colors made our earthly hues look like black and white photos. They were three-dimensional. He saw living waters, and a golden sunrise streaming over the sky. He could open his eyes and he was in his chair, then close them again and see the other world. This state lasted about half an hour. The other event that is notable, to me, was a night he was meditating and found his arm moving rapidly up and down from elbow to fingers as his arm rested upon the chair arm. A blue light began to emanate from his lower arm, and he was forever grateful that he had company who saw his arm turning blue and glowing. Later transmissions indicated that the UFO entities were winding his battery!

[Nicholas]

Found it! Book 5!

Carla: Don had several experiences of altered consciousness that were permanently etched into his mind. The initiation he spoke of here was received in 1968, while we were in meditation together. He suddenly found himself in a world where the colors were living. He said these colors made our earthly hues look like black and white photos. They were three-dimensional. He saw living waters, and a golden sunrise streaming over the sky. He could open his eyes and he was in his chair, then close them again and see the other world. This state lasted about half an hour. The other event that is notable, to me, was a night he was meditating and found his arm moving rapidly up and down from elbow to fingers as his arm rested upon the chair arm. A blue light began to emanate from his lower arm, and he was forever grateful that he had company who saw his arm turning blue and glowing. Later transmissions indicated that the UFO entities were winding his battery!

Good find, YingYang!

Here is the part I was referring to...

44.12 Questioner: In meditation a number of years ago my arm started to glow, moving rapidly involuntarily. What was that?

Ra: I am Ra. The phenomenon was an analogy made available to you from your higher self. The analogy was that the being that you were was living in a way not understood by, shall we say, physicists, scientists, or doctors.

You have synced up our imperfect memories beautifully, imao

[Matt1]

I have tried different psychedelics for getting into an alter state of consciousness and believe it is a worthwhile initiation of consciousness however this picture sums up my views on them perfectly.

 

[YinYang]

Wise words from one of my favourite people! I just love Alan Watts!

[BlatzAdict]

whenever most people trip they don't tend to do what it was meant for. as a teacher, and you are the student

i can't imagine ayahuasca to feel any different than any other psychadelic in enough amounts to make you see things. though i would strongly suggest to meditate and ohm.. then ask for your guides

the information shown to you depends on what you are ready to receive, so it's a very loving process, i think it's important to be able to consider each chakra and make sure each one is well address before trying to do anything that is related to this.

also don't do it on an empty stomach in case it lasts a while.

the colors are living yes but it's not colors as we think it's energy lines and they just become more visible as the third eye opens.

[YinYang]

i can't imagine ayahuasca to feel any different than any other psychadelic

Actually there's a very big difference, Ayahuasca is the strongest hallucinogenic known to man.

i think it's important to be able to consider each chakra and make sure each one is well address before trying to do anything that is related to this.

I tend to lean more to it being the other way around. Ayahuasca is a tool for healing, so chakra blockages I would imagine are often cleared with Ayahuasca.

It reminds me a little of something in Art of Meditation (which I'm busy reading now again, so it's all fresh):

Frequently the question of diet in relation to meditation is raised. Is there any special diet which, if followed, will enhance one's spiritual capacity? Are certain foods to be avoided by the aspirant on the spiritual path? Should one refrain from the eating of meat? At every stage of our unfoldment we are tempted to believe that something we do or think in the human realm will help us in the development of our spiritual awareness. This is a false assumption. On the contrary, it is the development of our spiritual awareness that changes our everyday habits and mode of living. As the aspirant progresses along the spiritual path, he may find himself eating less and less meat and, ultimately, may reach the point of being unable to eat any meat at all. Let us not, however, believe that there is virtue in some act of omission or commission, that some form of material sacrifice will increase our spirituality. Spirituality is developed through the reading of spiritual literature, the hearing of spiritual wisdom, the association with those on the spiritual path, and through the practice of meditation. The kingdom of God is found by inner realization. The outer transformation in one's dietary habits is a direct result of an inner spiritual grace; it is a result of the spiritualizing process taking place in consciousness. Abstaining from the eating of meat is not a means of developing inner spiritual grace; but the development of inner spiritual grace leads to the renunciation of such things on the outer plane.

You don't fix yourself before you start meditating, it's the meditation that does the fixing, rather than the other way around, and I think Ayahuasca is the same. I think many people take it to clear blockages that they have been unable to clear themselves.

also don't do it on an empty stomach in case it lasts a while.

Ayahuasca is always taken on an empty stomach, the fasting beforehand is very important. Also many other foods and things to avoid. Anti-depressants is probably the most important thing to not have in your system when taking Ayahuasca. Fortunately I'm anti pill of any kind.

From Ayahuasca in My Blood

But for those suffering emotional and spiritual issues, la purga is equally effective. Normally, it's recommended that a person drinking ayahuasca fast for at least several hours and often for a full day before drinking. That ensures an empty stomach. But it won't diminish the purging effects.

The difference in the purge on an empty stomach, however, is that instead of vomiting lunch, the participant will have a chance to vomit some of the bile of their lives, things they carry around which clutter up their mental and spiritual arenas uselessly. Most of us don't even realise what we are carrying.

Ayahuasca's spirit reaches down into the depths of your soul and roots around for those things, then brings them to the surface - in the frightening moments of ego-dissolution - in a wretched reliving of them. It's not like vomiting at all: It's as if great chunks of physical matter are explosively hurled from the bottom of your bowels - the vomiting often sounds like a waterfall in reverse, the water rushing up the rocks and violently cascading from your mouth. My guests swear they vomited heaps; in truth they rarely vomit more than a few ounces of ayahuasca they drank as they have nothing physical in their stomachs to eliminate.

[AnthroHeart]

i can't imagine ayahuasca to feel any different than any other psychadelic

Actually there's a very big difference, Ayahuasca is the strongest hallucinogenic known to man.

Actually smoking DMT is MUCH stronger. I have had both. But smoked DMT only lasts about 8 minutes. It's like the 5 hour ayahuasca session compressed into 5-8 minutes. It will blow open your third eye and send you into hyperspace, where you will either see clowns or elves, and a lot of geometry. I once saw myself aboard a UFO looking down at a planet. I was told not to freak out.

If you put THH under your tongue for 15 mins before smoking, it will be much more intense and longer lasting.

[YinYang]

It's like the 5 hour ayahuasca session compressed into 5-8 minutes.

Have you taken ayahuasca in a ceremony, IndigoGeminiWolf?

[YinYang]

I would just like to mention, since I'm the one who started this Ayahuasca conversation. I'm against any street drug or chemically manufactured drug. Ayahuasca is something I consider to be an ancient Shamanic medicine to be used with utmost care in the presence of an experienced Shaman. Nowadays, with the popularity of it, many people lead ceremonies, but before it became as popular as it is now, someone would apprentice for 30+ years under a shaman before being allowed to lead a ceremony on their own.

You can land yourself in very hot water, if you end up with the wrong operator, as has happened to Kyle Nolan.

[AnthroHeart]

It's like the 5 hour ayahuasca session compressed into 5-8 minutes.

Have you taken ayahuasca in a ceremony, IndigoGeminiWolf?

I've only had pharmahuasca, which is the active ingredients of ayahuasca with a couple of other people. Have done that about 6 times.
Smoked DMT aboout 6 other times.

But not in an official ceremony. The pharmahuasca  made everything look beautiful, but I didn't learn anything spiritual from it. It just made me hallucinate. The DMT took me away like I was no longer in the room.

[anagogy]

The pharmahuasca  made everything look beautiful, but I didn't learn anything spiritual from it. It just made me hallucinate. The DMT took me away like I was no longer in the room.

You stated that the pharmahuasca didn't provide any spiritual benefit to you, but did the DMT? How "real" did the DMT experience feel to you, and did you take anything spiritual away from that particular substance? I ask because the universe seems to be directing my attention to DMT right now, and so I'm just sort of investigating it.

[Minyatur]

I also feel called by DMT, although the time felt not right many times over. GW post about it was his 12,757, of which 757 is my numerology number, so seemed like a sync to remind me of it. Was also post #17 which i saw 17 mins after it was posted. Anagogy's post that reminds me of it now is his 1,771th.

Will need to remember the THH tip.

Edit :

Well to add to this, I just went on facebook and got "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" as a suggested page.

[AnthroHeart]

Get some Tetrahydroharmine, and put a bit of that under your tongue for 15 mins before you smoke the DMT. That will make the experience more profound and last twice as long.

Some have said that smoked DMT makes it feel like you're shot out of a cannon. I braced for that but that never happened to me.

Yes, on the DMT I experienced myself levitating horizontally and moving slowly. There were voices that said "don't give into astonishment"

At that time I loved Bolt from Disney, so I wanted to meet him. But when I was on a UFO with many rooms, I saw him all electrical, his outlines were very jagged and electrical, and he was barking aggressively at me. So I learned that when you're in hyperspace, it's their rules, not yours. If you go into there trying to meet someone or something, it may be turned around at you. I never saw elves but I did see clowns. They weren't aggressive though.

DMT was hyper-real because there was a body load too. Not just what I saw, but there was an amaziing feeling of what I felt.

When I did the pharmahuasca, the most that happened was my wooden entertainment center looked like pastels and was melting, and the carpet became a raging sea.

But DMT is very intense.

[AnthroHeart]

If you want to know about DMT, including how to make it (you can't buy it),
you can try https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/

That was the forum that got me started.

[YinYang]

Thanks IndigoGeminiWolf, but the only DMT I am interested in, is the natural variety that nature gives us.

[Minyatur]

I tend to see all things as thought forms, so the things from nature are designs of multiple origins, just as human creations also are.

You can find things in nature that can kill you quite quickly, just as things that can heal you.

[AnthroHeart]

Thanks IndigoGeminiWolf, but the only DMT I am interested in, is the natural variety that nature gives us.

DMT doesn't grow naturally by itself. You have to extract it from a plant such as Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark.

[anagogy]

I tend to see all things as thought forms, so the things from nature are designs of multiple origins, just as human creations also are.

You can find things in nature that can kill you quite quickly, just as things that can heal you.

Yeah, this is a realization I've had recently, that "natural" is kind of deceiving. Everything is naturally occuring because there is nothing outside of nature. But everything has a different "spirit" or vibration, and becoming aware of the precise nature of that is the real challenge.

[Jade]

Let us take the two examples and look at them through the lens of the Transformation of the Mind. (please excuse my dead horse)

Gemini took DMT that was extracted to be smoked in its purest form. He also took other pharmaceutical drugs to "maximize" the length of time of the experience. The other option is seeking a shaman who has spent most of his life learning the forest and becoming a friend and companion to all of its lifeforms, and asking to partake in a ritual experience with the plant. (Or you can be your own shaman) The first action seems more about trying to maximize the experience in a fun way, plus Gem said he did it many times over the course of a short period of time. He wanted the most "bang for his buck". This action is more on the scale of plundering a prostitute - and the rewards are that which is "rough, prostituted, and without great virtue". Where as doing research for a shaman (or becoming the shaman), saving up money for the trip, and setting your intentions for a serious spiritual life lesson are more along the lines of how you would gently court the maiden - the plant being your maiden. Are you going to take its plundered fruits or are you going to cultivate a relationship with her before you even begin to ask for anything?

I see this as the same, in a way, for natural vs. synthetic. If we take a look at the earth and nature, absolutely everything we could possibly need is provided by her - for instance, we can get DMT from the ayahuasca. But that's not enough. We want a quicker fix. So we try to contort nature to do things for our benefit, instead of cultivating patience to wait for her to provide for us what we need. It's a subtle thing but I think it's important to take into consideration. There's a reason why the ritual to extract the DMT is so intense and profound, to synthesize that step in a lab cheapens it IMO. This is the case with most things.

[Minyatur]

Let us take the two examples and look at them through the lens of the Transformation of the Mind. (please excuse my dead horse)

Gemini took DMT that was extracted to be smoked in its purest form. He also took other pharmaceutical drugs to "maximize" the length of time of the experience. The other option is seeking a shaman who has spent most of his life learning the forest and becoming a friend and companion to all of its lifeforms, and asking to partake in a ritual experience with the plant. (Or you can be your own shaman) The first action seems more about trying to maximize the experience in a fun way, plus Gem said he did it many times over the course of a short period of time. He wanted the most "bang for his buck". This action is more on the scale of plundering a prostitute - and the rewards are that which is "rough, prostituted, and without great virtue". Where as doing research for a shaman (or becoming the shaman), saving up money for the trip, and setting your intentions for a serious spiritual life lesson are more along the lines of how you would gently court the maiden - the plant being your maiden. Are you going to take its plundered fruits or are you going to cultivate a relationship with her before you even begin to ask for anything?

I see this as the same, in a way, for natural vs. synthetic. If we take a look at the earth and nature, absolutely everything we could possibly need is provided by her - for instance, we can get DMT from the ayahuasca. But that's not enough. We want a quicker fix. So we try to contort nature to do things for our benefit, instead of cultivating patience to wait for her to provide for us what we need. It's a subtle thing but I think it's important to take into consideration. There's a reason why the ritual to extract the DMT is so intense and profound, to synthesize that step in a lab cheapens it IMO. This is the case with most things.

While I get your point, do you believe the spirit of the molecule would truly find itself to be "plundered" because of this?