I have yet to see it cited that the veil completely disappears in 4th-density.

[Adonai One]

Even in some Q'uo channelings it is mentioned that 4th-density worlds have a seperate inner planes from their physical worlds. Only is it hinted that these inner planes dissolve into a unified experience in the 5th and 6th densities as entities inherently reach the highest levels of adepthood.

So this murmur about there being no veil at all in 4th-density has no solid basis to me yet. In fact, I believe it's only rational to assume that the veil gradually dissipates and doesn't come undone all at once as we overcome our genetic limitations. Only in late 4th-density I can imagine beings are able to have a full grasp of their unconcious and concious minds.

So my question is this: Where in the material is it said the veil comes completely undone in 4th-density?

[AnthroHeart]

The veil is needed to polarize which is a function of 3D choice. I don't know if polarizing is done in 4D though.

Here are some quotes about life before and after the veil: http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?c=Before+the+Veil

[Adonai One]

The veil is needed to polarize which is a function of 3D choice. I don't know if polarizing is done in 4D though.

Here are some quotes about life before and after the veil: http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?c=Before+the+Veil

Yes, it is described as an intense function in 3rd-density but the funny thing is its described as archetypal and the archetypes do apply through all densities.

While the veil might be a great tool in 3rd-density, it has yet to be said that it just disappears completely in 4th-density. Or has such been said?

[Hototo]

I don't see how the veil could be entirely eliminated before 7th density.

[AnthroHeart]

I vaguely remember Ra or Q'uo talking about higher densities still having an unconscious, if my memory serves me.

[Hototo]

I see it more as not being possible to have a conciousness without some form of unconciousness and thus the neccesity for the veil to exist, in some level, while it is being "lifted" that is to say, lessened and the contact betwixt self/other self is made more apparent though it is not completely lifted and all revealed to be the creator until 6.50<

So to say that movement from 3rd density veil to 4th density veil would be to, perhaps see, that you and your other selves are one, while movement from 4th to 5th would be to see, for example, that you and your past and future are one. And from 5th to 6th that you and your other potential pasts/futures are one. Who know. It depends on the real established density boundaries. Either way, Each would be a new level of self/other self unity while still result in a completely new set of worlds to explore. Just a theory once again.

[AnthroHeart]

Even Ra states they are not omniscient or all knowing when dealing with Octaves for instance. To them the mystery still exists. So there is apparently a veil to truth even in their density.

[zvonimir]

21.9 Questioner: Now, when the 75,000-year cycle started, [the] life span was approximately nine hundred years, average. What was the process and scheduling of— mechanism, shall I say, of reincarnation at that time, and how did the time in between incarnations into third-density physical apply to the growth of the mind/body/spirit complex?

Ra: I am Ra. This query is more complex than most. We shall begin. The incarnation pattern of the beginning third-density mind/body/spirit complex begins in darkness, for you may think or consider of your density as one of, as you may say, a sleep and a forgetting. This is the only plane of forgetting. It is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex.

This is the only plane of forgetting i think this could*be the line you wished for

[AnthroHeart]

I think that forgetting only applies to past lives and our god-like nature. There must be forgetting so we do not activate our higher density bodies and become a god here in 3D. In time/space you might be omnipresent, but in space/time you can't know everything until 7D is reached.

[Adonai One]

21.9 Questioner: Now, when the 75,000-year cycle started, [the] life span was approximately nine hundred years, average. What was the process and scheduling of— mechanism, shall I say, of reincarnation at that time, and how did the time in between incarnations into third-density physical apply to the growth of the mind/body/spirit complex?

Ra: I am Ra. This query is more complex than most. We shall begin. The incarnation pattern of the beginning third-density mind/body/spirit complex begins in darkness, for you may think or consider of your density as one of, as you may say, a sleep and a forgetting. This is the only plane of forgetting. It is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex.

This is the only plane of forgetting i think this could*be the line you wished for

Density =/= Plane

I've read that line. It doesn't convince me because planes are usually only mentioned in the context of realms of one planet including the inner planes. Indeed, in that context, this is the only plane on this planet of forgetting.

If he said this is the only density of forgetting, I would be convinced.

[zenmaster]

87.25 Questioner: Is it meaningful to give this ratio in early fourth density and, if so, would you do that?

Ra: I am Ra. In many ways it is quite meaningless to speak of orgasm of male and female in higher densities as the character and nature of orgasm becomes more and more naturally a function of the mind/body/spirit complex as an unit. It may be said that the veil in fourth density is lifted and the choice has been made. In positive polarities true sharing is almost universal. In negative polarities true blockage so that the conqueror obtains orgasm, the conquered almost never, is almost universal. In each case you may see the function of the sexual portion of experience as being a most efficient means of polarization.

---

The veil exists due to the nature of the body which provides for a particular type of awareness of mind. There are no dual-activated wanderers for a reason.

[Adonai One]

I believe Ra mentions that wanderers are inherently dual-activated?

Also, how can 4th-density negative entities exist if there is apparently absolutely no veil? Ra mentions that societies with no veil were positive.

105.17 Questioner: Now, as an example I would like to take the distortion of a disease or bodily malfunction prior to [the] veil and compare it to that after the veil. Let us assume that the conditions that Jim, for instance, experienced with respect to his kidney malfunction had been an experience that occurred prior to the veil. Would this experience have occurred prior to the veil? Would it have been different? And if so, how?

Ra: I am Ra. The anger of separation is impossible without the veil. The lack of awareness of the body’s need for liquid is unlikely without the veil. The decision to contemplate perfection in discipline is quite improbable without the veil.

[AnthroHeart]

Would a dual-activated wanderer violate free will? Or just not possible because Earth doesn't have higher densities activated?

[zenmaster]

I believe Ra mentions that wanderers are inherently dual-activated?

Nope. " As we have said before, Wanderers become completely the creature of third density in mind/body complex. "

---

Dude stop retroactively editing the question content out of your posts. Just think before you write.

---

Also, how can 4th-density negative entities exist if there is apparently absolutely no veil? Ra mentions that societies with no veil were positive.

105.17 Questioner: Now, as an example I would like to take the distortion of a disease or bodily malfunction prior to [the] veil and compare it to that after the veil. Let us assume that the conditions that Jim, for instance, experienced with respect to his kidney malfunction had been an experience that occurred prior to the veil. Would this experience have occurred prior to the veil? Would it have been different? And if so, how?

Ra: I am Ra. The anger of separation is impossible without the veil. The lack of awareness of the body’s need for liquid is unlikely without the veil. The decision to contemplate perfection in discipline is quite improbable without the veil.

Ra also mentions that the concept of polarity was introduced to the octave. The is separation in the sense of "I do not recognize myself in unity with all", and separation in the sense of as "I consciously desire to seek separation". The latter is a conscious orientation, the former is merely how the unconscious mind presents iteself.

[Adonai One]

Is this veiling at all related to the veiling generally spoken of?

79.32 Questioner: I’m sorry that I have much difficulty in asking these questions, but we’re on material that I find somewhat difficult.

I find it interesting that the very first experiment of veiling Matrix from the Potentiator and vice-versa created service-to-self polarity. This seems to be a very important philosophical point in the development of the creation and possibly the beginning of a system of what we would call magic not envisioned previously.

Let me ask this question. Prior to the extension of first distortion was the magical potential of the higher densities as great as it is now when the greatest potential was achieved in consciousness for each density? This is difficult to ask. What I am saying is at the end of fourth density, prior to the extension of free will, was the magical potential, what we call magic, as great, or the ability, or the effect as great as it is now at the end of fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. As you understand, if we may use this misnomer, magic, the magical potential in third and fourth density was then far greater than after the change. However, there was far, far less desire or will to use this potential.

[zenmaster]

As far I know, that's right.

[AnthroHeart]

Ra also mentions that the concept of polarity was introduced to the octave. The is separation in the sense of "I do not recognize myself in unity with all", and separation in the sense of as "I consciously desire to seek separation". The latter is a conscious orientation, the former is merely how the unconscious mind presents iteself.

This is how I see it too. Unity is a hard topic to get my mind around. Can one easily experience moments of oneness? Or is it a lifelong journey toward adepthood?

[zenmaster]

Can one easily experience moments of oneness?

There is oneness in the sense of actual awareness of unity (7D), and oneness in the sense of awareness of connection to something transcendent which engenders a feeling that suggests unity. For 3D, there are several steps of awareness of unity having to do with the individualization/integration process. Each new awareness encompasses a larger view of self.

[AnthroHeart]

Zen, I saw you use the word "conflated" before. Would conflated apply to the awareness of connection to something transcendent? (Your second definition of oneness). Is it conflated awareness?

[zenmaster]

Zen, I saw you use the word "conflated" before. Would conflated apply to the awareness of connection to something transcendent? (Your second definition of oneness). Is it conflated awareness?

I tend to use "conflated" only when the potential exists for a distinction, yet there is a choice not to use discernment. So a concept is conflated only when the opportunity exists to make the distinction yet for some reason ambiguity or vagueness is relied upon to make a claim or to promote a suggestion. Vagueness always suggests infinity and infinity feels good because it is a symbol and reminder of wholeness. And new-age people use it to deflect or weasel out of evaluating experience.

Ambiguity is also offered to let the mind fill in the blanks with what it wants to see (again suggesting infinite possibility). The intuition always perceives with some amount of ambiguity which is later determined through rational evaluation.

[Adonai One]

Zen, I am trying to bridge the link here between third and fourth considering the path to be of typical evolution but with great solar influence. If fourth-density entities are to be forged in this manner, wouldn't it be rational to think the unlifting of the veil will be gradual assuming the veiling is due to biological limitation?

[Brittany]

I've always been a little curious about this topic because the Ra Material says that the biological process in 4D is similar to that in 3D, regarding the nature of the body complex and the sexual processes. I would assume entities are still birthed as infants and grow into maturity in 4D. If there is no veil in 4D, would the entity be born with full intelligence and understanding? Thinking of a completely lucid infant is a bit strange (though sometimes I wonder if infants ARE completely lucid but unable to communicate it due to bodily limitations, and only later forget what they know). Or would infancy and childhood remain basically the same, with a slow remembrance settling in as the body matured (similar to some magical techniques used in 3D)? Or would the body perhaps mature at an accelerated rate? Not an especially important curiosity, but a curiosity nonetheless.

[Adonai One]

Ra seems to have been very intentionally vague as not to abridge our freewill as we approach our evolution in this regard. I've attempted to channel answers myself in regards to what I've perceived as 4th-density past lives and all I have come to deduce is that evolution in this regard varies from species to species.

What is very clear to me is that the "veiling" is dependent on biology of the brain. How the brain evolves to unveil itself is not yet known to me.

---

And brains do seem to exist in 4th-density life:

61.13 Questioner: OK, then I will ask this one. Could you tell us the purpose of the frontal lobes of the brain and the conditions necessary for their activation?

Ra: I am Ra. The frontal lobes of the brain will, shall we say, have much more use in fourth density.

The primary mental/emotive condition of this large area of the so-called brain is joy or love in its creative sense. Thus, the energies which we have discussed in relationship to the pyramids — all of the healing, the learning, the building, and the energizing — are to be found in this area. This is the area tapped by the adept. This is the area which, working through the trunk and root of mind, makes contact with intelligent energy and through this gateway, intelligent infinity.

Are there any queries before we leave this instrument?

So the whole human form is not thrown out. It will likely split but evolution is not thrown out of the window.

[Sagittarius]

Ra seems to have been very intentionally vague as not to abridge our freewill as we approach our evolution in this regard. I've attempted to channel answers myself in regards to what I've perceived as 4th-density past lives and all I have come to deduce is that evolution in this regard varies from species to species.

What is very clear to me is that the "veiling" is dependent on biology of the brain. How the brain evolves to unveil itself is not yet known to me.

---

And brains do seem to exist in 4th-density life:

61.13 Questioner: OK, then I will ask this one. Could you tell us the purpose of the frontal lobes of the brain and the conditions necessary for their activation?

Ra: I am Ra. The frontal lobes of the brain will, shall we say, have much more use in fourth density.

The primary mental/emotive condition of this large area of the so-called brain is joy or love in its creative sense. Thus, the energies which we have discussed in relationship to the pyramids — all of the healing, the learning, the building, and the energizing — are to be found in this area. This is the area tapped by the adept. This is the area which, working through the trunk and root of mind, makes contact with intelligent energy and through this gateway, intelligent infinity.

Are there any queries before we leave this instrument?

So the whole human form is not thrown out. It will likely split but evolution is not thrown out of the window.

Your DNA is not a blueprint. Day by day, week by week, your genes are in a conversation with your surroundings. Your neighbors, your family, your feelings of loneliness: They don’t just get under your skin, they get into the control rooms of your cells. Inside the new social science of genetics.

Robinson, however, suspected that environment could spin the dials on “big sectors of genes, right across the genome”—and that an individual’s social environment might exert a particularly powerful effect. Who you hung out with and how they behaved, in short, could dramatically affect which of your genes spoke up and which stayed quiet—and thus change who you were.

http://www.psmag.com/health/the-social-l...nes-64616/

[zenmaster]

Zen, I am trying to bridge the link here between third and fourth considering the path to be of typical evolution but with great solar influence. If fourth-density entities are to be forged in this manner, wouldn't it be rational to think the unlifting of the veil will be gradual assuming the veiling is due to biological limitation?

I'd say it's only "gradual" due to process of the transitional period, which is relatively short.

[anagogy]

I believe Ra mentions that wanderers are inherently dual-activated?

No, they elect to have 3rd density mind/body genetic connections. So a wanderer is no different than any other 3rd density, except in the spirit complex, which allows them a certain unconscious bias towards truth in many cases.

Also, how can 4th-density negative entities exist if there is apparently absolutely no veil? Ra mentions that societies with no veil were positive.

There would be no negative polarity if our evolution through the densities had been veil-less, however, moving through the evolution of 3rd density with a veil intact has taught certain entities to love falsity, or illusion, and once that taste has been acquired, it doesn't matter if they know "we are all one" or not, they are fully aware of this fact, and reject the greater self in favor of the separated self.

87.11 Questioner: I’m sorry for getting confused on the question here and not asking it correctly. There is a philosophical point of central importance to me that I am trying to clear up here. It has to do with the fact that fourth-density negative seems to be aware of the first distortion, and they are in a nonveiled condition. And they seem to use this knowledge of the first distortion to maintain the situation that they maintain in their contacts with this planet. I am trying to extract their ability to understand the mechanism of the first distortion and the consequences of the veiling process and still remain in a mental configuration of separation on the negative path. I hope that I have made myself clear there. I have had a hard time asking this question.

Ra: I am Ra. The answer may still not satisfy the questioner. We ask that you pursue it until you are satisfied. The fourth-density negative entity has made the choice available to each at third-density harvest. It is aware of the full array of possible methods of viewing the universe of the One Creator and it is convinced that the ignoring and non-use of the green-ray energy center will be the method most efficient in providing harvestability of fourth density. Its operations among those of third density which have not yet made this choice are designed to offer to each the opportunity to consider the self-serving polarity and its possible attractiveness.

As Ra stated in another session: some love light, some love darkness. All these experiences are available. Each chooses their picnic.

[AnthroHeart]

87.25 ▶ Questioner: Is it meaningful to give this ratio in early fourth density and, if so, would you do that?

Ra: I am Ra. In many ways it is quite meaningless to speak of orgasm of male and female in higher densities as the character and nature of orgasm becomes more and more naturally a function of the mind/body/spirit complex as an unit. It may be said that the veil in fourth density is lifted and the choice has been made. In positive polarities true sharing is almost universal. In negative polarities true blockage so that the conqueror obtains orgasm, the conquered almost never, is almost universal. In each case you may see the function of the sexual portion of experience as being a most efficient means of polarization.

[Fastidious Emanations]

As Ra stated in another session: some love light, some love darkness. All these experiences are available. Each chooses their picnic.

light loves darkness, infinitely penetrating that original womb which potentiate(s/d) it's kinetic form.

[zenmaster]

Interestingly, at 4D graduation 20% of the "negatives" graduate to positive 5D which is a significant number. This suggests that positive and prior negative (i.e. Orion Empire members) 4D work together at some point rather than battle. Apparently, like 3D polarity is easy to shift in 4D too, once acquired.

[Adonai One]

All that is said is that the veil is lifted in 4th-density but a sub-density is never mentioned. In another passage of some channeled material by either Q'uo or Ra, it is said that the beginning of 4th-density is seen as having little difference of the density before.

Given this, would it be reasonable to assume that the veil doesn't fully lift until mid or late 4th-density?