to kill or not to kill? that is the question.

[AnthroHeart]

I've chosen a path. Thing is whether or not I've demonstrated action in alignment with that chosen path to the point of being harvestable. Come on Violet Ray. Let's hope I haven't incurred negative karma that would keep me stuck in 3D after this life. I swear, sometimes it worries me. But I've heard, don't worry about harvest. It would only put wrinkles on my face.

Just wondering: Have you read the Law of One books? If so, are you disregarding the need to choose one's path in this density?

I'm not picking either path. I'm staying here.

[Zachary]

I simply wont kill anything if I can help it, thats my philosophy.

That being said, I wont suffer for the sake of not wanting to kill. (mosquitos)

Theres a balance.

[Karl]

I've chosen a path. Thing is whether or not I've demonstrated action in alignment with that chosen path to the point of being harvestable. Come on Violet Ray. Let's hope I haven't incurred negative karma that would keep me stuck in 3D after this life. I swear, sometimes it worries me. But I've heard, don't worry about harvest. It would only put wrinkles on my face.

Maybe you should stop caring about harvests, or karmas, or STS/STO interactions and just find what makes you happy then do it.

Some people enjoy being kind, some revel in the suffering of others. Neither is 'wrong'. It's who they are. All paths lead back to the point-of-origin/creator so why worry about it? Smell the roses.

[AnthroHeart]

The question is, would you kill this maggot infestation: http://poetry.rotten.com/maggoted-ii/
Warning graphic content.

[isis]

[deleted / swiss cheese]

[Marc]

Instead of killing Mosquitoes in a pond, just add fish and more frogs and instead of killing more life you are changing the problem into a solution, and thus creating more life while getting rid of excess nuisance. Do you think you have a roach problem? Nope, just a chicken deficiency. Lol study permaculture design and with that system of design its about creating more life, not killing.

People like to live apart from nature and that creates an imbalance in the system and nature wants to be integrated in evey aspect of our lives. Pests/pollution is a surplus of any thing, and aren't good or bad. It is what you do with it that makes it feel that way.

Anyways, I'm done with my permaculture philosophy rant.

[Plenum]

People like to live apart from nature and that creates an imbalance in the system and nature wants to be integrated in evey aspect of our lives. Pests/pollution is a surplus of any thing, and aren't good or bad. It is what you do with it that makes it feel that way.

yes, +1 to this.

I just finished the first half of the Buddhist film "Why Has Bodhi-Dharma Left for the East?", and the closeness to nature and animals was quite something to behold. The monastery was in nature, not apart from it; they bathed and got their water from a running river just outside.

there is so much to observe from being inside the 1d and 2d environment. The Creator is present there too

it is a cycle of endless life.

[Monica]

Instead of killing Mosquitoes in a pond, just add fish and more frogs and instead of killing more life you are changing the problem into a solution, and thus creating more life while getting rid of excess nuisance. Do you think you have a roach problem? Nope, just a chicken deficiency. Lol study permaculture design and with that system of design its about creating more life, not killing.

People like to live apart from nature and that creates an imbalance in the system and nature wants to be integrated in evey aspect of our lives. Pests/pollution is a surplus of any thing, and aren't good or bad. It is what you do with it that makes it feel that way.

Anyways, I'm done with my permaculture philosophy rant.

Ah...chicken deficiency! I never thought of that.

[transiten]

Funny sync, I have not been on the forum for a long time and stumble over this thread and MacRammers post and Monicas last reply. I was about telling i've suffered from Lymedisease for 2 years and am slowly recovering by several alternative treatments like frequency therapy, monocromous light therapy and tons of nutrients.

I got the tick at my fathers summerhouse in the summer 2011 and most likely had one in 2010 but then my immunesystem was strong enough to cope with it. There is a slowly growing awareness of this widespread disease that the healthcare system has been ignoring, at least the chronic one that you get if you're not treated within 3 months.

I spend a lot of time in nature but at first i was terrified to go to the summerhouse again, my 91 year old father and i attract ticks now and then, it's inevitable but now we check ourselves constantly and if you remove them within 24 hours the bacteria don't spread.

Research says that ticks don't have any "purpose" in nature and don't "do any good"; they are not food for any animals. Would be interesting to hear your perspective on this. Spiritually speaking i suppose i attracted this disease for a reason and of course on that level the tick "has a purpose".

I must say i have no second thought when i kill a tick or a mosquito.....on the other hand i always avoid killing even the smallest ant or snail if it's not the "Murdersnail" that has invaded Sweden and eat everything in our allotments including their own species....

[Marc]

Here you go

Ticks are parasitic organisms that survive off the nourishment provided by the blood of a host organism. Although most people regard them as pests, ticks play an important role in keeping balance in the ecosystem. So even though they are regarded as one of the nastiest, most unappealing insects on earth, their role in the ecosystem is an important one.
...
Ticks are opportunistic and will feed on any host available; however, ticks are quick to exploit sick, weak and old animals. When ticks infest an animal in a weakened or debilitated state, they take energy from the host, weakening it even further. In turn, when ticks infest the host, it creates a downward spiral and eventually leads to the death of the host either by the ticks themselves or by other natural predators. [they assist natural selection in doing the dirty work of keeping a species healthy]
...
Ticks also play an important role in the food chain of an ecosystem. Ticks and other small parasitic insects are a favorite food of birds which will often pick engorged ticks right off the body of host animals. Ticks also fall as prey to a number of predatory insects like spiders and parasitic wasps and are often infected by predatory species of nematode and fungus. Ticks are a strong and important link in the food chain as they take nourishment from large host animals high in the food chain and transfer that energy down the chain to lesser organisms.

All things within a system have multiple functions, or else they would not exist. Some functions are a bit emotionally charged to us, but regardless they do serve a function. :p

---

And I wouldn't mind killing a tick that was stuck to me. It's a matter of survival, not prejudice.

[Karl]

Cool. They're negative catalyst multipliers.

[transiten]

Thanks MarcRammer!

Very interesting. That's what i thought when i listenend to the researcher, he must be wrong about saying nothing would happen to the ecosystem if all ticks were about to disappear tomorrow.

An interesting thing is that deers have a substance in their blood that kills the bacteria so they don't catch the disease. Hence a tick that has been sucking blood from a deer doesn't spread the disease only the tick itself. The bacteria is carried by rodents f.i. and next time the tick sucks blood from a hare that carries Lyme/Borrelia they get contagious. Also mosquitos can spread tickborn diseases.

[Diana]

Of course, don't kill.

Yes, we inadvertently kill microbes, or we may accidentally step on an ant. But if you are living consciously, aware of what you are doing and "in the now," while carrying in your heart a respect for all life, you'd be surprised how harmoniously you can exist with nature.

I was at a little pond a few weeks ago in my backyard, placing some rocks to shore up a side. I heard a slight rustle, and looked to my left where a rattlesnake was curled up and looking at me. He was maybe 8 inches from my face (I was squatting and he had blended in with the rocks). He just stuck his tongue out at me and I moved away. He did not try to strike, or even rattle his tail. Snakes will always try to get away from humans if they can.

It's not about karma for me at all. I don't care about being punished for killing something because I might have to pay back karma. What does matter to me is that all life has the right to live. But it's more than that. It's about all being one, and existing in harmony. We have bees at the water dishes I put around the yard (I live in the desert). I can be around them doing all sorts of things, and they never sting me. They are just going about their business. This world is not just for humans and human convenience. If a spider is hanging out in your house, just take it outside. I used to live where there were tons of scorpions. When I found one in the house, I would put a glass over it and slide a piece of mail or something under the glass and invert the glass. That way I could take it outside safely, and get to look at it up close as well (they are really amazing).

[Monica]

I heard a slight rustle, and looked to my left where a rattlesnake was curled up and looking at me. He was maybe 8 inches from my face (I was squatting and he had blended in with the rocks). He just stuck his tongue out at me and I moved away. He did not try to strike, or even rattle his tail. Snakes will always try to get away from humans if they can.

Like I said, I want to be like Diana when I grow up!

[Diana]

Instead of killing Mosquitoes in a pond, just add fish and more frogs and instead of killing more life you are changing the problem into a solution, and thus creating more life while getting rid of excess nuisance. Do you think you have a roach problem? Nope, just a chicken deficiency. Lol study permaculture design and with that system of design its about creating more life, not killing.

People like to live apart from nature and that creates an imbalance in the system and nature wants to be integrated in evey aspect of our lives. Pests/pollution is a surplus of any thing, and aren't good or bad. It is what you do with it that makes it feel that way.

Anyways, I'm done with my permaculture philosophy rant.

A couple of posts ago I mentioned the pond in my backyard. The javelina started it by digging dirt out around the water dish, and we began calling it "Javie Hollow." After a while it got bigger. We have a great well, and I let the water drip into the water dish throughout the very hot summer for the animals (whose local watering hole was built over by some developers). So Javie Hollow became a tiny pond.

My partner was worried about mosquitoes around the pond, which we occasionally get in our area. But the opposite came true. Frogs were attracted to the water, and they spawned in the little pond. We heard them singing at night, and it was so beautiful, calling to a mate. I had the sensation that the frogs were "singing" their progeny alive. We have had NO mosquitoes at all. What we do have are the cutest tiny frogs hiding under rocks.

[transiten]

Instead of killing Mosquitoes in a pond, just add fish and more frogs and instead of killing more life you are changing the problem into a solution, and thus creating more life while getting rid of excess nuisance. Do you think you have a roach problem? Nope, just a chicken deficiency. Lol study permaculture design and with that system of design its about creating more life, not killing.

People like to live apart from nature and that creates an imbalance in the system and nature wants to be integrated in evey aspect of our lives. Pests/pollution is a surplus of any thing, and aren't good or bad. It is what you do with it that makes it feel that way.

Anyways, I'm done with my permaculture philosophy rant.

A couple of posts ago I mentioned the pond in my backyard. The javelina started it by digging dirt out around the water dish, and we began calling it "Javie Hollow." After a while it got bigger. We have a great well, and I let the water drip into the water dish throughout the very hot summer for the animals (whose local watering hole was built over by some developers). So Javie Hollow became a tiny pond.

My partner was worried about mosquitoes around the pond, which we occasionally get in our area. But the opposite came true. Frogs were attracted to the water, and they spawned in the little pond. We heard them singing at night, and it was so beautiful, calling to a mate. I had the sensation that the frogs were "singing" their progeny alive. We have had NO mosquitoes at all. What we do have are the cutest tiny frogs hiding under rocks.

Diana

Suppose you're scorpio like me. Many years ago on a Greek island i also took al glass and a sheet of paper and moved a scorpion out of the house while everybody else fled outside...also remember when i was 3 years old in my Old folks garden in Marseille where i heard the "grenouilles" croak in a little pond.

The other day i had the privilege of rescuing a sparrow-hawk that had crashed into our window at the summer house. He was lying up-side down peddling his claws like a baby. As i turned him around he just kept ending up on his back. I picked him up and had a beautiful moment looking into his wild yellow eyes.

After talking to a wildlife care taker who told me to kill him!? I called a person that happened to have a lot of contacts and found a man who drove 14 Swedish miles to catch up the bird. He advised me to put him in a box with holes and then into a wardrobe for several hours since he had a concussion. Nothing was broken though and after 4 days the hawk had been feeded small birds that had crashed into the rescuers window....a Black-bird my favourite one, and so he finally flew away...

[Diana]

Diana

Suppose you're scorpio like me. Many years ago on a Greek island i also took al glass and a sheet of paper and moved a scorpion out of the house while everybody else fled outside...also remember when i was 3 years old in my Old folks garden in Marseille where i heard the "grenouilles" croak in a little pond.

The other day i had the privilege of rescuing a sparrow-hawk that had crashed into our window at the summer house. He was lying up-side down peddling his claws like a baby. As i turned him around he just kept ending up on his back. I picked him up and had a beautiful moment looking into his wild yellow eyes.

After talking to a wildlife care taker who told me to kill him!? I called a person that happened to have a lot of contacts and found a man who drove 14 Swedish miles to catch up the bird. He advised me to put him in a box with holes and then into a wardrobe for several hours since he had a concussion. Nothing was broken though and after 4 days the hawk had been feeded small birds that had crashed into the rescuers window....a Black-birdmy favourite one) and so he finally flew away...

That's awesome. I can imagine how you felt when the bird flew away.

I have looked into the "yellow wild" eyes of a great horned owl who came down our chimney the first night we moved into our current house. He spent some time in our kitchen until we encouraged him out one of the doors.

You are right, I am a scorpio. And my avatar is one of the scorpions we photographed at night on the back wall of the house I previously lived in.

[Marc]

A couple of posts ago I mentioned the pond in my backyard. The javelina started it by digging dirt out around the water dish, and we began calling it "Javie Hollow." After a while it got bigger. We have a great well, and I let the water drip into the water dish throughout the very hot summer for the animals (whose local watering hole was built over by some developers). So Javie Hollow became a tiny pond.

My partner was worried about mosquitoes around the pond, which we occasionally get in our area. But the opposite came true. Frogs were attracted to the water, and they spawned in the little pond. We heard them singing at night, and it was so beautiful, calling to a mate. I had the sensation that the frogs were "singing" their progeny alive. We have had NO mosquitoes at all. What we do have are the cutest tiny frogs hiding under rocks.

That's beautiful! I hurt for all of the animals that are left homeless by human invasion. The friends were trying to recreate their habitat and you let them!

Nature is smarter than we think. In my house in IN we had a pond and lots of mosquitoes, but the reason for it was we put chemicals to kill them in the water and it did kill them that year while killing off much of our bull-frog, turtle and all crayfish population. The next year it was worse than ever. If we had never interfered in nature, there would've been a boost of frogs and turtles to take advantage of the abundance of excess food and in the coming years there would be no mosquito problem. My neighbor's pond was lively with fish, frogs, turtles, and other aquatic life and he never used chemicals and encouraged habitat for wildlife in his yard.

Everyone, please encourage habitat for wildlife in your yards! There are millions of animals without a home because people took over thier land without sharing any space with the native inhabitants. Plant native plants (or just let them grow) and find out how you can encourage biodiversity in your living space.

[Diana]

That's beautiful! I hurt for all of the animals that are left homeless by human invasion.

So do I. I was at a small gathering years ago doing a guided meditation to help people cross over who were stuck here. I saw animals cross over instead of people (I spoke of this here at b4 a while ago but can't find it to reference). The first animals I saw were rats and they looked at me with apprehension and embarrassment because humans hate them so much. I saw other animals cross, then an elephant came and turned toward me. It was a young male. He said his brothers and sisters of the animal kingdom were starving, because humans took more than they needed, covering the planet with a gray skin. He asked me to tell humans about this and to please not take away their habitats. When we were done with the meditation, the facilitator asked for our experiences and after a few people told theirs, of course I was compelled to relate the message from the elephant. I was crying (which I did not want to do but couldn't help it) as I told it to a group of shocked people, both because it was so emotional, and because I suppose it was very unusual to help animals cross over.

[Parsons]

I work in a restaurant where they serve crab and they keep live crabs in a trap for that reason. I have made it clear that I am willing to do any dirty work around the place, but I refuse to kill the crabs. This is not because I am scared or incapable, but because I have the choice of whether or not I am going to walk the talk of my higher awareness and in this situation it is my prerogative to make that choice and I have decided that although I will not kill the crabs, I do retrieve them from the traps and each time I bless them and thank them and offer a gateway for their spirit to evolve. For myself I don't have any belief I am sending them "somewhere better" but rather that by adding my consciousness to theirs they will be able to move on in their evolution more quickly.

Just a suggestion as I personally probably still wouldn't do it, but have you considered how much more respect and love you would be giving the creature by killing it rather than the (presumably) unthinking, disrespectful person who will kill it anyways? I have been contemplating what my ideal situation for the continued consumption of 2D life, and without exception, I would like my food to be treated with compassion, respect, and as an aspect of the One. I do consume meat, although at a reduced rate, but I would appreciate the person who ended it's life to thank it for it's services in keeping this vehicle alive. It not only would benefit the 2D creature but also my health, as a fearful, disrespected creature would be absorbed into my body; you are what you eat.

[Monica]

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do about the rats in my compost bin? I didn't mind a few of them at first, but they have multiplied to the point that I'm concerned about the neighbors reporting me for breeding rats! So I quit taking out new compost for the time being. Here I was thinking I was doing something positive but didn't intend to start a rat colony! I can't let my cats in the backyard because of the neighbor's Rottweilers. And I can't let my own dogs into the garden area because they'd tear it up. I tried talking to the rats but all I got was a wide grin thanking me for feeding them. I really don't want to have to ask my husband to take apart the compost bin and attach a bottom and top to it. (The rats are burrowing underneath so just putting a top on it won't help.) I really dislike wasting good veggie scraps and am anxious to start composting again. But I can't knowingly feed a rat population inside city limits!

Help!

[BrownEye]

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Weiser-22-oz-Or.../202753502

[Monica]

Just a suggestion as I personally probably still wouldn't do it, but have you considered how much more respect and love you would be giving the creature by killing it rather than the (presumably) unthinking, disrespectful person who will kill it anyways?

There is killing going on all around us, every day. We are in the density of Choice. It is our task to choose. That choice carries a lot more weight than knowingly participating in an act that isn't in alignment with our highest ideals. I do see the logic behind your idea, and I understand that you are suggesting extending love and compassion to the victim, but that can be done without actually participating in the killing.

To participate in an act that isn't in alignment with our highest ideals, because we think it is inevitable, may even have the effect of hardening one's heart to the very thing they formerly found repulsive. Kill an animal day after day and after awhile it gets easier and easier.

---

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Weiser-22-oz-Or.../202753502

Thanks for the idea! That particular product had only 2 reviews and they were both poor. But maybe there is another, similar product that works better. I'm leery about using stuff in a veggie garden, though. But now that you've given me the idea, maybe I'll find a suitable product.

[BrownEye]

I heard there were oils that bother them as well.

[AnthroHeart]

I heard that fox pee will work. I've seen that for sale at Walmart in the past as a cover scent for hunters. But it smells very strongly of ammonia.

[Diana]

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do about the rats in my compost bin? I didn't mind a few of them at first, but they have multiplied to the point that I'm concerned about the neighbors reporting me for breeding rats! So I quit taking out new compost for the time being. Here I was thinking I was doing something positive but didn't intend to start a rat colony! I can't let my cats in the backyard because of the neighbor's Rottweilers. And I can't let my own dogs into the garden area because they'd tear it up. I tried talking to the rats but all I got was a wide grin thanking me for feeding them. I really don't want to have to ask my husband to take apart the compost bin and attach a bottom and top to it. (The rats are burrowing underneath so just putting a top on it won't help.) I really dislike wasting good veggie scraps and am anxious to start composting again. But I can't knowingly feed a rat population inside city limits!

Help!

I had mice (I think they were pack rats) in the garage. I keep bins of horse food and bird seed there for the animals. We started finding little piles of horse pellets everywhere, but that was just the tip of the iceberg. One day we opened the hood of my car and there were little piles of horse pellets tucked into the depressions running down the top of the motor. It was absolutely funny (though my partner, Fred, wasn't as amused as I was). The coup de gras was when Fred moved some equipment under his work table and behind was a pile of stuff five feet wide! It was hilarious: there were pens, screws, fibers from rugs and blankets, tree branches, little rivets, and even a pair of reading glasses! It still tickles my insides when I think about that massive hoarding.

We just used a no-kill cage with peanut butter, and transported the rats to another area with a water supply (go out of the city). Occasionally, after the first relocation I would open the hood of my car and find pellets and little rivets and screws tucked into the engine. It took 3 or 4 times over a period of perhaps a year. We haven't had any in the garage that I know of since. We do have a resident lizard there however, Shorty (because when he first showed up his tail had come off).

I don't know what kind of compost bin you have, but I used to have one that stands on legs with a handle to turn the contents and I think it was all enclosed. You could get a new one and start using that, and let the old one just die out.

[caycegal]

Supposedly Jesus killed a fig tree. There is no way to be alive on this earth without killing something else. It's purpose, intention, ideal that make the difference. Are you striving to become more aware of the connection between yourself and all things? Or do you have some other intention? I don't think we are necessarily called to martyrdom. Ra mentioned that some do have a strong "distortion toward martyrdom," I seem to recall.

[isis]

[deleted / swiss cheese]

[AnthroHeart]

A hummingbird flew in through an open door which I didn't realize until after it had flown into my bedroom. Later I saw it flapping around in the living room. I haven't been able to help it, and I'm not sure what's going to happen if it dies somewhere, if it will smell up the house. At first I thought it was a huge moth, but I've only caught brief glimpses of it. By not searching for it, it will potentially die in the house, which I don't want. I don't think I'm responsible for its passing by not doing anything about it. I can't open my front and back door both because of my dogs would run out.

I don't know where in the house it is now. Poor thing.

[Diana]

A hummingbird flew in through an open door which I didn't realize until after it had flown into my bedroom. Later I saw it flapping around in the living room. I haven't been able to help it, and I'm not sure what's going to happen if it dies somewhere, if it will smell up the house. At first I thought it was a huge moth, but I've only caught brief glimpses of it. By not searching for it, it will potentially die in the house, which I don't want. I don't think I'm responsible for its passing by not doing anything about it. I can't open my front and back door both because of my dogs would run out.

I don't know where in the house it is now. Poor thing.

Do you have a hummingbird feeder? Of so, hang it in the house and see if you can get the bird to fly to it. Leave the door wide open and walk in and out of it--often birds will get it that that's where to fly out. At night, turn the lights off in the house and put a porch light on and leave the door open, and it will fly to the light. Good luck.