Polarity

[zenmaster]

You will know a tree by its fruit

Yes, but that knowledge is only available in retrospect. In the real world, decisions must be made without this knowledge.

[Wander-Man]

Retrospect exists in the real world...

[Spaced]

Retrospect exists in the real world...

but only in retrospect

[Wander-Man]

     

[AnthroHeart]

Retrospect exists in the real world...

And it doesn't take much time to see what kind of fruit is on a tree, that is, if you don't have too many crusty boogers in your eyes.

Oh, you get them too. I thought I was the only one. Sometimes they are sharp.

[zenmaster]

Retrospect exists in the real world...

And it doesn't take much time to see what kind of fruit is on a tree, that is, if you don't have too many crusty boogers in your eyes.

You say that, but it's not true of course.

[Wander-Man]

Retrospect exists in the real world...

And it doesn't take much time to see what kind of fruit is on a tree, that is, if you don't have too many crusty boogers in your eyes.

You say that, but it's not true of course.

Lol. Not true for whom? Don't you know the eyes are like a biography? Especially with the veil thinning.

[JustLikeYou]

Ankh, thanks for clarifying the concept of intention more closely to my own...intention :-)

In veiled 3D existence, many of us act with mistaken conceptions of our intentions because even these intentions are veiled. Hence, your example, zenmaster, is not useful in this particular question.

Intention (deep, genuine intention, not the intentions you may or may not perceive yourself to have within your more or less muddled awareness) is what distinguishes STO from STS. Effects are not important in the sense of the difference between the two. That does not mean that effects are not important at all. It only means that the effects of your actions are not what will signify whether you are STO or STS.

On the STO path, effects are only significant in terms of responsibility, a concept which is very important to STO. When an STO entity sees that its actions had an adverse effect, that entity will attempt to be of further service by balancing the effect. But the adverse effect in no way reduces the polarity of the entity. Only the intention can reduce your polarity. Only your decision -- in the moment of truth -- to intend service to self rather than service to others when you act will reduce your polarity. This is how intention is central.

On the STS path, however, effects are more important for polarization. When an STS entity attempts to enslave or somehow control another, the entity will lose polarity if the attempt fails. That is, seeing itself as weak, it will freely choose to serve the other in response (this service may only be giving up the attempt). The two paths are, of course, asymmetrical in this way: whereas STS polarity depends on the ability to control, STO polarity depends on the ability to accept. In acceptance, there is no dependency on the actions of others. You may accept others as they are and grant them perfect free will no matter what they do in response to your actions.

The means are important insofar as only certain means can be harmonized within the context of either STS or STO. However, I would say that the intention and the means tend to merge into one in the highly polarized entity. If my means of serving others is somehow violent or controlling, then it appears that I am not actually intending to serve them.

Consider the lessons of wisdom which 4D entities must learn. 4D entities tend to be naively fervent in their desire to serve. It is only through the hard catalyst of failure to be of service (i.e. unintended consequences) that the wisdom to abstain from interfering is learned. But, again, the unintended consequences in no way affect the polarity of the entity. In fact, my experience has been that unintended consequences polarize me more toward service. I tend to desperately want to correct the imbalance that I have created.

Wander-Man, the intentions of others are not at all easy to read. And this is a good thing: otherwise how would we learn to trust each other?

50.7
"your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes."

This is not a glimpse at the cards of the other-self. It is only an indication.

However, it is true that as you become more and more balanced, you can "read" the balances and intentions of others -- but even this skill is still not fool-proof. The whole point of 3D is that each other-self is a mystery, no matter how far you progress. Just today, I had to retract an assessment I had previously made about a friend. It was a pleasant surprise to find him to have greater integrity than I had thought.

[We are God]

Ankh - I chose to bring up change and stillness because they represent another kind of polarity, or perhaps it would be better stated as another manifestation. It is not entirely useful in the context of this discussion though since it does not relate to service - maybe I should not have brought it up. I will conclude that with saying that I believe the understanding that I was trying to communicate to be of 7th density; I say this because it seems to be the experience of one who is ready for absolution, and also, a symbol which perfectly represents this concept is the Wheel of Dharma. Q'uo has stated that the Buddha is a social memory complex of 7th density origin. I do find this very interesting - perhaps I will ask Q'uo about it if Carla and Jim are still doing saturday sessions. How would one go about sending this group the query?

Anyway, I'd like to thank you all for the responses once again. I would like to add to this discussion the notion of subjectivity; you may look at the moon, but you are not actually seeing the moon - you are seeing a reflection of the moon. The senses function as mirrors in this regard. The objective reality is always beyond perception, as if the objective reality was a line and the subjective reality was another, and they run parallel to one another, never intersecting at any point.

It is said in the Tibetan Book of the Dead that when you die, angels come to take you from your body; if you have attachments, you will instead perceive these entities as demons. It doesn't actually matter whether angels are responsible for removing you from this complex or not - the point here is that beings of the light seem very damning to those who resonate with darkness. Intent is very interesting in this context. It can be said that all intent is positive because entities always try to do what seems right to them, regardless of their polarity; even our primitive primate friends in our society who live meaningless lives believe they are doing the right thing. The negative polarity entities in LOO believed they were doing the right thing when they were attempting to tempt or hurt Carla.

Exactly what role does intention play in determining polarity?

This would be a very good question for Q'uo, my friend. While I do not believe that intent plays much of a role, I would be interested in hearing a response from our higher density companions.

---

You bring up a lot of good points here, JustLikeYou. There is so much depth to this discussion I don't think we could ever reach the end of it.

Again, I would like to suggest asking Q'uo about intent as it relates to polarity. Subjectivity does also have a place in this question somewhere though I'm not sure how this query should be asked.

I have recently found the Q'uo transcripts and I like them very much. The technicalness of Ra was very useful and so is the casualness of Q'uo. I am very glad that Carla and the Confederation have found a way to communicate that does not have such a detrimental effect on her health. This will allow everyone to be of better service.

[Wander-Man]

Wander-Man, the intentions of others are not at all easy to read. And this is a good thing: otherwise how would we learn to trust each other?

50.7
"your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes."

This is not a glimpse at the cards of the other-self. It is only an indication.

However, it is true that as you become more and more balanced, you can "read" the balances and intentions of others -- but even this skill is still not fool-proof. The whole point of 3D is that each other-self is a mystery, no matter how far you progress. Just today, I had to retract an assessment I had previously made about a friend. It was a pleasant surprise to find him to have greater integrity than I had thought.

Through the eyes you can get an indication, and combining dialogue and other observations you can piece together a good amount. This being helpful to the healer and the manipulator.

I'm not referring to specific intentions of a person, though you can make an educated guess with the information. But everyone has good intentions anyway. Both roads are paved with them.

And this is a good thing: otherwise how would we learn to trust each other?

How can you heal if you trust the sick?

[Parsons]

@We are God, Carla had to stop channeling Q'uo due to health issues. With that in mind and the fact that she won't be able to do that forever even when/if she recovers enough to do so, I created this thread with the intent of reestablishing contact for the next generation: http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=6796

[reeay]

You don't heal the sick, the sick person does own healing... when there is lack of trust in another person's capacity to work through their own challenges you may end up trying to do their work for them, which is futile and merely highlights the healer's own challenges that needs to be attended to.

[Wander-Man]

Are you speaking from experience?

[Spaced]

Wander-Man, the intentions of others are not at all easy to read. And this is a good thing: otherwise how would we learn to trust each other?

50.7
"your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes."

This is not a glimpse at the cards of the other-self. It is only an indication.

However, it is true that as you become more and more balanced, you can "read" the balances and intentions of others -- but even this skill is still not fool-proof. The whole point of 3D is that each other-self is a mystery, no matter how far you progress. Just today, I had to retract an assessment I had previously made about a friend. It was a pleasant surprise to find him to have greater integrity than I had thought.

Through the eyes you can get an indication, and combining dialogue and other observations you can piece together a good amount. This being helpful to the healer and the manipulator.

I'm not referring to specific intentions of a person, though you can make an educated guess with the information. But everyone has good intentions anyway. Both roads are paved with them.

All information gathered on other-selves this way is biased by your ego structure through which it must be processed and also vulnerable to deception by those who wish to deceive.

How can you heal if you trust the sick?

By recognizing your sickness in them. How can you heal if you don't trust that the sick are also infinitely perfect aspects of the creator?

[reeay]

Yeah. I had good mentors who encouraged me to be reflexive about my own intentions and actions bc there are many in the helping fields who unintentionally hook people into becoming addicted to helplessness and dependency.

[Wander-Man]

Wander-Man, the intentions of others are not at all easy to read. And this is a good thing: otherwise how would we learn to trust each other?

50.7
"your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes."

This is not a glimpse at the cards of the other-self. It is only an indication.

However, it is true that as you become more and more balanced, you can "read" the balances and intentions of others -- but even this skill is still not fool-proof. The whole point of 3D is that each other-self is a mystery, no matter how far you progress. Just today, I had to retract an assessment I had previously made about a friend. It was a pleasant surprise to find him to have greater integrity than I had thought.

Through the eyes you can get an indication, and combining dialogue and other observations you can piece together a good amount. This being helpful to the healer and the manipulator.

I'm not referring to specific intentions of a person, though you can make an educated guess with the information. But everyone has good intentions anyway. Both roads are paved with them.

All information gathered on other-selves this way is biased by your ego structure through which it must be processed and also vulnerable to deception by those who wish to deceive.

How can you heal if you trust the sick?

By recognizing your sickness in them. How can you heal if you don't trust that the sick are also infinitely perfect aspects of the creator?

There's a difference between trusting the mind/body and trusting God within. Maybe I wasn't clear about that.

[AnthroHeart]

There's a difference between trusting the mind/body and trusting God within. Maybe I wasn't clear about that.

It's hard to sometimes trust the "god" within, when it sometimes lies to you. Hard to know if it is God talking, or some other entity claiming to be god.

[reeay]

I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding the perspective that 'i am other self and other self is self' bc in 3D reality/interactions, that perspective may potentially pave the way for massive projection, misunderstanding, and other errors in judgment. And in some contexts within 3D life this make sense and is extremely helpful in providing feedback to be used for work.

[Adonai One]

I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding the perspective that 'i am other self and other self is self' bc in 3D reality/interactions, that perspective may potentially pave the way for massive projection, misunderstanding, and other errors in judgment.

Could you give an example? I think I know what you are referring to but I want to be sure.

[xise]

There's a difference between trusting the mind/body and trusting God within. Maybe I wasn't clear about that.

It's hard to sometimes trust the "god" within, when it sometimes lies to you. Hard to know if it is God talking, or some other entity claiming to be god.

I've always gotten the impression that God is a vibration rather than a distinct entity that is going to communicate and/or has desires for you to carry out from both (1) my intuition and (2) the Ra material. I mean, God can speak to you, in terms of filling you with joy, love, peace, but I think we use speak loosely. Is there anywhere in the Ra material where it talks about God actually saying something to someone?

God actually speaking (as opposed to giving you loving energy) seems to be much more prevalent in religion, which I tend to not resonate with for a variety of reasons.

[Adonai One]

There's a difference between trusting the mind/body and trusting God within. Maybe I wasn't clear about that.

It's hard to sometimes trust the "god" within, when it sometimes lies to you. Hard to know if it is God talking, or some other entity claiming to be god.

I've always gotten the impression that God is a vibration rather than a distinct entity that is going to communicate and/or has desires for you to carry out from both (1) my intuition and (2) the Ra material. I mean, God can speak to you, in terms of filling you with joy, love, peace, but I think we use speak loosely. Is there anywhere in the Ra material where it talks about God actually saying something to someone?

God actually speaking (as opposed to giving you loving energy) seems to be much more prevalent in religion, which I tend to not resonate with for a variety of reasons.

I do not doubt god could vocalize but it is clear the concept of god supersedes any human concept of an entity or likeness.

[We are God]

I understand where you're coming from, Rie. I have some exercises that you may find very helpful.

Look into a mirror and consider that you are actually the reflection and the one staring is really you.

It is important to understand that this not any more or less of an illusion than your everyday experience of this physical world. You are not the body, the body is an extension - to think that you are the body, to identify with the body, is akin to holding a diamond in the hands and thinking that you are the diamond.

Another technique which may be of some value to you is to consider that you are just a mirror. This is actually the reality. We are just a mirror that reflects the objective reality. However, our experience is not of the objective reality, our experience is a subjective one - what we are actually experiencing in life is the reflection within ourselves, us being the mirror.

---

The belief that God is a vibration is a much more developed perspective than seeing God as some old man in the sky, however, it is also not entirely correct. God is all things and nothing simultaneously. Language is dual in nature but God is non-dual so trying to explain God in language is like trying to push the entire universe through your front door. However, it is possible to use language to guide you to God - I will try.

There is a poem that I wrote a few years ago: “Our bodies are moving, our minds are still, and our Soul is conscious.” This is a very profound and significant poem - it accurately describes every moment to ever exist. Our bodies are always moving because this is the nature of form. Our bodies exist in space. Space is like a canvas upon which form resides. Our minds are always still because our minds are not a form, they are a canvas upon which thoughts move. Thoughts are the forms of the mind. Our Soul is conscious - notice that Soul is singular and capitalized while bodies and minds are plural and lowercase. The Soul, as I describe it here, is consciousness itself.

“The consciousness in you and the consciousness in me, apparently two, really one, seek unity and that is love.”
― Nisargadatta Maharaj

The reason I am getting into this right now is because I'm going to show you where God is in all of this. When I say our bodies are moving, well, we normally see our bodies as separate. God's body is the totality of movement in the universe - God's body is movement itself. God's mind is stillness itself.

When light shines through a prism, it appears to split into distinct colors; it is actually still one light however it appears to be many. This is a great metaphor to explain to how the universe is one being, yet there appear to be many within it.

God is ourselves fully realized. It is not that I can become God or you can become God, because in order to reach such a level you must completely transcend the ego - at that point there is no me and no you at all, there is only us. When I say us, I mean it all-inclusively. There is no them, there is only us. We are God. There is no there, there is only here.

This is not a third density understanding.

[xise]

The belief that God is a vibration is a much more developed perspective than seeing God as some old man in the sky, however, it is also not entirely correct. God is all things and nothing simultaneously. Language is dual in nature but God is non-dual so trying to explain God in language is like trying to push the entire universe through your front door. However, it is possible to use language to guide you to God - I will try.

There is a poem that I wrote a few years ago: “Our bodies are moving, our minds are still, and our Soul is conscious.” This is a very profound and significant poem - it accurately describes every moment to ever exist. Our bodies are always moving because this is the nature of form. Our bodies exist in space. Space is like a canvas upon which form resides. Our minds are always still because our minds are not a form, they are a canvas upon which thoughts move. Thoughts are the forms of the mind. Our Soul is conscious - notice that Soul is singular and capitalized while bodies and minds are plural and lowercase. The Soul, as I describe it here, is consciousness itself.

“The consciousness in you and the consciousness in me, apparently two, really one, seek unity and that is love.”
― Nisargadatta Maharaj

The reason I am getting into this right now is because I'm going to show you where God is in all of this. When I say our bodies are moving, well, we normally see our bodies as separate. God's body is the totality of movement in the universe - God's body is movement itself. God's mind is stillness itself.

When light shines through a prism, it appears to split into distinct colors; it is actually still one light however it appears to be many. This is a great metaphor to explain to how the universe is one being, yet there appear to be many within it.

God is ourselves fully realized. It is not that I can become God or you can become God, because in order to reach such a level you must completely transcend the ego - at that point there is no me and no you at all, there is only us. When I say us, I mean it all-inclusively. There is no them, there is only us. We are God. There is no there, there is only here.

This is not a third density understanding.

I may have used the wrong semantics when I said vibration, but your understanding is similar to my understanding (or 3d nonunderstanding ).

Similarly, the word "God" is too interlinked (for me) with the old man in the sky that I can't picture a God speaking without basically picturing the old man in the sky talking.

That being said, I do feel the universe speaks to all of us, more collectively, through energy, synchronicity, other selves, guides, angels, social memory complexes. So in that sense certain, perhaps there is a spoken language.

[We are God]

I understand, my friend - it's all good.

I agree about the word God, many preconceived notions come with it for most people, however it resonates with me very much so I enjoy using it.

The universe does indeed speak to all of us, so to speak. This is what life is - the language of the universe is experience.

[Ankh]

Ankh - I chose to bring up change and stillness because they represent another kind of polarity, or perhaps it would be better stated as another manifestation. It is not entirely useful in the context of this discussion though since it does not relate to service - maybe I should not have brought it up. I will conclude that with saying that I believe the understanding that I was trying to communicate to be of 7th density; I say this because it seems to be the experience of one who is ready for absolution, and also, a symbol which perfectly represents this concept is the Wheel of Dharma. Q'uo has stated that the Buddha is a social memory complex of 7th density origin.

Are you saying that you are of this 7D social memory complex, named Buddha?

[reeay]

Q'uo was talking about Gautama Siddhartha http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0402.aspx

No mention of this particular Buddha (because there are many Buddhas) being in a social memory complex or Buddha being a social memory complex. Although, somebody on this forum claimed to have channeled Ra, who said Buddha was a social memory complex.
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=6399 (post #6)

[Confused]

The universe does indeed speak to all of us, so to speak. This is what life is - the language of the universe is experience.

I really liked that!

Nice one!

[JustLikeYou]

I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding the perspective that 'i am other self and other self is self' bc in 3D reality/interactions, that perspective may potentially pave the way for massive projection, misunderstanding, and other errors in judgment. And in some contexts within 3D life this make sense and is extremely helpful in providing feedback to be used for work.

I have noticed that it is very easy for spiritual seekers to parse the Law of One in a way that is useless except in the context of transcendence (also known as "ascension"). I think of this interpretation as the drab reductionist rendition of the Law of One. In this perspective, all is reduced to unity, difference and variety being swept under the synthetic rug in an effort to somehow eliminate the complications associated with them. A one-time-friend of mine has begun to think of himself as a prophet and his message is that "there is no shadow." Strangely, he has taken to vicious, unprovoked attacks upon those who attempt to help him in any way (and his street-life makes him frequently dependent upon help). Clearly, there is, indeed, a shadow.

If the Law of One brings us to negate the experience of separation and variety in 3D, then we have missed the point. The point is not to somehow sidestep separation, to subsume everyone into my own categories because they are all One with me anyway, to simplify life so drastically that the only comfortable environment is on a mat in a temple. Unless your goal is to leave this density as soon as possible, this is emphatically not a useful understanding.

The point of the Law of One -- in the context of living a full 3D life -- is that everywhere I look, I always see myself. Moreover, because everywhere I look, there is mystery, this means that I am also a mystery to myself. Hence, if I wish to plumb the mystery, then I had better give great care and attention to everything around me, because even the smallest part of my reality could offer the next key to the mysteries that lie coiled up within my Infinite Self.

If I assume that the other is merely a reflection of me, I can project my own experiences upon that person because I do not appreciate that I am a mystery to myself. Moreover, I likely also would not appreciate that I am a mirror for the other and also equally a mystery to them. So, for example, my prophetic sometime-friend seems to me to be in the throes of false-enlightenment, calling forth a very humbling experience. I make this assessment because I remember a time in my life when I experienced a false-enlightenment, thought of myself as a prophet and was eventually humbled in a very painful way. My experience of this person tells me nothing about that person. It only clarifies my own perspective of myself. At any moment, I could be presented with some piece of information that completely changes my perception of who this sometime-friend is. Hence, my assessment can only be tentative at best. The other-self is not merely a mirror. It is a mirror, but it is also the infinity, just as I am. Hence, I can only reveal something to the other about herself and she can only reveal something to me about myself. The only time we ever see each other as we truly are is when we witness the mystery of the other-self, for the mystery of the other-self lurks always just around the corner.

The entire creation begins and ends in mystery.

[reeay]

Thank you for that JustLikeYou. There is indeed a mystery that seems to be what makes 3D rather exciting (tho I do not have a frame of reference for other density). What fascinates me is the progression of our philosophy that is helping us to understand self from various perspectives, such understanding reality as objectivity and separation; then, the observer cannot be separated from the observed (more intersubjective); then observer may observe the multiplicity of a gestalt and the movement between polarities (and also the spiral dynamics talk about the systemic and systemic integration). It's like we're moving to see things from various perspectives along various polarities and contexts and meta-level views to see a larger terrain but not yet see the vastness of this field, and won't see in 3D. Kind of like having various lenses of various power of magnification as if experiencing something from multiple levels of the 'tree' that Ra talked about.

[We are God]

Are you saying that you are of this 7D social memory complex, named Buddha?

No, not necessarily. It's a possibility I guess but I'm not here to claim anything. I don't bother myself with such details - we are all Buddha, really.

What a Buddha is, is a mirror. As I have explained in the article I wrote (the thread entitled 'The Path of Wisdom'), what we really are is consciousness and consciousness is a mirror. Our experience of the world is that of looking into the mirror of consciousness and seeing the reflections within it; what we are seeing is just a reflection - it is a distortion, it is maya. What it means to be enlightened is to simply be the mirror, without attaching to the images reflected in the glass - the images come and go but the mirror remains. I am explaining this because we are all this mirror - the cosmos is essentially a big Hall of Mirrors.

When one simply rests as awareness, as a mirror, their experience will be similar to what I said in the post mentioning 7th density. There's many reasons to believe it is of 7th density, but it ultimately doesn't matter.