No Purpose

[vervex]

Victor Frankl was a Jewish prisoner of a Nazi concentration camp who was miraculously able to survive thanks in no small part to a faith that he had a purpose and that there was greater meaning. In his small and heartbreakingly beautiful book, "Man's Search for Meaning" he contends that where people have a why, they can endure any how.

That is to say, when one has a sense of meaning or purpose, that meaning or purpose can, above all things, carry one through circumstances and modes of suffering that otherwise could not be endured.

I have not read the book so, please, correct me if I am wrong, but from reading your reply I get the impression this man may have survived in part thanks to his conviction in a purpose and higher meaning. Having a "why", a strong nearly unshakable belief, can help people cope with many horrendous circumstances. In this particular context, it remains however a coping mechanism, a method which can render one unconscious of other alternatives, alternatives which may be difficult for the entity to envision at the time.

While I would never dare condemn such technique, I would personally recommend an acceptance of all possibilities as much as possible, while striving for what one desires - in peace and balance. It is my understanding that the solidity (or inflexibility) of the self-assigned life purpose or mission is inversely proportional to one's acceptance to the alternative scenario. One does not need to look as far as concentration camps to observe similar phenomena; they are easily observable among the very religious. Often, the conviction goes as far as claiming that God personally gave them a mission to accomplish, and while we could debate that it is technically true since they are God, they seek sense and direction and will use such mechanism to obtain it. They then derive their meaning externally through seeking to please God, seeking to justify their existence which otherwise is perceived as meaningless.

I generalize of course; different people have different reasons to pursue the things they desire, however I couldn't help but notice the similarity between current religious, self-appointed servants of an overseeing anthropomorphic God and the example you provided above

[Adonai One]

A conviction to one moment, one purpose, one ideal of self at all costs is inevitably negatively polarizing as one begins to deny all things but one conviction, one purpose as self.

Are we not all things? Are we not the moments we do not desire?

We must inevitably accept catalyst, the catalyst of what we are not. A convicted singular purpose denies and controls this catalyst towards its ends.

[Confused]

Hello manniz, thank you for a thought-provoking post. There are many points in your post that are worth some further contemplation, and I am just picking one of them in this post --

True love needs understanding.
By providing honest feedbalc from the ground here in this heavily veiled third density, we are providing understanding to the whole of creation.

It may all be an illusion here, but creation takes it very seriously.

The role of feedback is integral in the way that we participate in the evolution of the universe, I guess, as per my personal and subjective understanding of the LOO.

60.16 ↥ Questioner: The pyramid shape then, as I understand it, was deemed by your social memory complex at that time to be of paramount importance as, shall I say, a physical training aid for spiritual development. At this particular time in the evolution of our planet it seems that you place little or no emphasis on this shape. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. It is our honor/duty to attempt to remove the distortions that the use of this shape has caused in the thinking of your peoples and in the activities of some of your entities. We do not deny that such shapes are efficacious, nor do we withhold the general gist of this efficacy. However, we wish to offer our understanding, limited though it is, that contrary to our naïve beliefs many thousands of your years ago the optimum shape for initiation does not exist.

Let us expand upon this point. When we were aided by sixth-density entities during our own third-density experiences we, being less bellicose in the extreme, found this teaching to be of help. In our naïveté in third density we had not developed the interrelationships of your barter or money system and power. We were, in fact, a more philosophical third-density planet than your own and our choices of polarity were much more centered about the, shall we say, understanding of sexual energy transfers and the appropriate relationships between self and other-self.

We spent a much larger portion of our space/time working with the unmanifested being. In this less complex atmosphere it was quite instructive to have this learn/teaching device and we benefited without the distortions we found occurring among your peoples.

We have recorded these differences meticulously in the Great Record of Creation that such naïveté shall not be necessary again.

At this space/time we may best serve you, we believe, by stating that the pyramid for meditation along with other rounded and arched or pointed circular shapes is of help to you. However, it is our observation that due to the complexity of influences upon the unmanifested being at this space/time nexus among your planetary peoples it is best that the progress of the mind/body/spirit complex take place without, as you call them, training aids because when using a training aid an entity then takes upon itself the Law of Responsibility for the quickened or increased rate of learn/teaching. If this greater understanding, if we may use this misnomer, is not put into practice in the moment by moment experience of the entity, then the usefulness of the training aid becomes negative.

Ra mentioned something about the 'Great Record of Creation', in which they have recorded their observations regarding their prior direct interventions with the population of earth and which they characterize as one based on "naïve beliefs". In fact, Ra goes on to say that they have recorded their now deep realization that such interventions that are naive would not be necessary again, meaning that, potentially, other such Confederation interventions on other planets can learn from the experiences of Ra thousands of years ago on our planet.

Thus, it appears that the universe does have a mechanism of a feedback loop through which it continuously refines itself in the march towards greater and greater perfection.

The role of feedback appears a central part of the narratives in two other episodes within the LOO, as well, in terms of one part of creation learning from another. One is the instance with respect to Dan Frye and the other being that of Charlie Hickson.

8.30 Questioner: Is this the type of craft that Dan Frye was transported in?

Ra: I am Ra. The one known as Daniel was, in thought-form, transported by Confederation thought-form vehicular illusion in order to give this mind/body/spirit complex data so that we might see how this type of contact aided your people in the uncovering of the intelligent infinity behind the illusion of limits.

8.31 Questioner: Would it be possible for any of us to have some type of contact with the Confederation in a more direct way?

Ra: I am Ra. In observing the distortions of those who underwent this experiential sequence we decided to gradually back off, shall I say, from direct contact in thought-form. The least distortion seems to be available in mind-to-mind communication. Therefore, the request to be taken aboard is not one we care to comply with. You are most valuable in your present orientation.

8.16 Questioner: What did they do to Charlie Hickson when they took him on board?

Ra: I am Ra. They used his mind/body/spirit complex’s life experience, concentrating upon the experience of the complexes of what you call war.

8.17 Questioner: How did they use them?

Ra: I am Ra. The use of experience is to learn. Consider a race who watches a movie. It experiences a story and identifies with the feelings, perceptions, and experiences of the hero.

Thus, it appears that to learn includes, also, observing feedback on 'personalized' experiences that each part of creation provides to each, apart from direct personal ones. And ultimately, it appears that the feedback-loop based learning or knowing is a key thematic tool that the One Infinite Creator uses to know more about itself. In fact, in the LOO, the concept of 'free will', itself, is defined as one that allows the Creator to know itself.

27.8 ↥ Questioner: Now, I understand that the first distortion of intelligent infinity is the distortion of what we call free will. Can you give me a definition of this distortion?

Ra: I am Ra. In this distortion of the Law of One it is recognized that the Creator will know Itself.

27.9 ↥ Questioner: Then am I correct then in assuming that the Creator will know Itself the Creator, then grants for this knowing the concept of freedom— total freedom of choice in the ways of knowing? Am I correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is quite correct.

In the above quote, it is interesting that Don illustrates free will as "total freedom of choice in the ways of knowing"; rather that "...ways of acting". Thus, free will appears to have a close connection with how we know or interpret an event, situation or experience; rather than our ability to totally manifest actions without any impedance.

In a further post, I wish to take up another key theme from your posting, which is the following --

And solutions. Obviously, creation wants to exist, and for that it has to keep darkness in limits. Give free will to darkness, but also protect the free will of its victims.

Thank you, manniz.

---

I am simply trying to find my own way through the mazed darkness, and share accordingly.

In the scheme of the LOO, we are all equal partners and stakeholders in sharing our unique perspectives on the creation of the One Infinite Creator, I guess!

[manniz]

Confused, thanks a lot for the quotes. That is one of the best things about Bring4th forums that some of you guys do an excellent job in digging out precise quotes. Some may say that we should not be that dependent on Ra material (it feels cool to be independent). Which is fine, since this creation is going to have infinite sources of wisdom. But, from my perspective, currently on Earth, I have not yet come across a more comrehensive summary of the existence beyond this illusion, other than Ra material. So, I am grateful to this forum that some posters here do the hard work of getting the right quotes, which my lazy ass is generally not good at.

These quotes apply very well to feedback and consequences of free will actions (two subjects, which I do not see covered in spiritual marterial very often. Most of the spiritual seeking focuses on love, which is absolutely fair from the macro perspective).

[Confused]

Confused, thanks a lot for the quotes.

Always welcome!

[Stranger]

Michael, as I said I can definitely relate to your viewpoint. The difficulty inherent in it is the negative emotion toward the Creator, and the A-versus-B paradigm of separation inherent in that.

Put simply, any attitude that treats separation as real or contains negative emotion toward any part of the Whole is like a physical barrier to STO polarization, which requires thinking, acting, and feeling as if all is One.

(Oneness, of course, is the Great Truth of Reality; the "as if" qualifier is only necessary because we do not typically experience it directly in 3d).

There is a way to integrate your genuine distress at the suffering of others with that Truth in a way that will not interfere with your spiritual growth. Treat the Creator and his apparent harm of others in the same way that you, as an STO entity, would treat a human who caused suffering and harm: with compassion and care for the victims, with strong disagreement for the deed, and with love for the perpetrator, who is still a part of yourself and therefore cannot be rejected in the same way that a painful limb is not hated, but rather cared for with compassion.

[Confused]

[...] You would have understood the darkness, instead of ignoring it. True love needs understanding.
By providing honest feedbalc from the ground here in this heavily veiled third density, we are providing understanding to the whole of creation.

It may all be an illusion here, but creation takes it very seriously. [...]

manniz, as I alluded to earlier, I wanted to pick on another important aspect of your post, as I see it from my limited perspective.

Before that, I would just like to say that like many on this forum, I consider the LOO as a very important tool in my personal spiritual evolution, in terms of understanding the cosmos (however imperfect that subjective understanding may be) and my role in it. The teachings and spiritual illuminations of Ra expanded my thinking and perspectives in ways that I never imagined possible. However, it also, I believe, led me to consider some very vexing existential dilemmas or paradoxes, which was made all the more acute due to the extremely traumatic events in my life. The following write-up is purely based upon the spiritual view that I have picked up from the picture of creation and the One Infinite Creator that the LOO has supplied. Of course, it will be riddled with personal biases and subjective misunderstandings, as I am very much a human being with a limited perspective, making my way as I am, under a thickly veiled third density environment.

Coming back to the aspect of your post that I have picked, manniz, what I think we are trying to address there, in the name of 'darkness', is the question of 'evil'. Though evil can denote a wide array of actions, thoughts and events, when distilled, it usually means pain that one visits upon another without any consideration or regard for the latter's state of distress, but purely absorbed with the gratification that the stronger one in the situation is getting out of the ability to derive some benefit from the other's induced condition. In a simplistic way, evil can be defined as the utter disregard for the dismal condition that one person may face due to the actions of another. Utter disregard of another for one's own benefit can be characterized as service to self (STS). Thus, it can be said that the principle of evil has some deep connection with the idea of STS.

Now let us consider the following, tucked away deep within the LOO --

30.1 ↥ Questioner: I am going to make a statement and then let you correct it if I have made any errors. This is the statement: Creation is a single entity or unity. If only a single entity exists, then the only concept of service is service to self. If this single entity subdivides, then the concept of service of one of its parts to the other part is born. From this concept springs the equality of service to self or to others. It would seem that as the Logos subdivided, parts would select each orientation. As individualized entities emerge in space/time then I would assume that they have polarity. Is this statement correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This statement is quite perceptive and correct until the final phrase in which we note that the polarities begin to be explored only at the point when a third-density entity becomes aware of the possibility of choice between the concept or distortion of service to self or service to others. This marks the end of what you may call the unselfconscious or innocent phase of conscious awareness.

Thus, it can probably be surmised, from the LOO, that at the very heart of the act of creation by love, lies the grievous contradiction of the presence of evil, as well, i.e., the tendency to employ someone or something else for the gratification of the stronger one in a given contextual situation. With already that unsettling paradox in place, the act of creation proceeded and then finally came the time of the 'great experiment' or the veiling (in the parlance of Ra). From the LOO, we can sort of pick that the veiling was in many ways directly responsible for the birth or sensed influence of STS tendencies.

82.29 ▶ Questioner: You stated in a much earlier session that it is necessary to polarize anything more than 50% service to self to be harvestable fourth-density positive. Was this condition the same at the time before the veil? The same percentage polarization?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working.

The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service.

Prior to the veiling process the measurement would be that of an entity walking up a set of your stairs, each of which was imbued with a certain quality of light. The stair upon which an entity stopped would be either third-density light or fourth-density light. Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross. It was this situation which faced the Logoi prior to the veiling process being introduced into the experiential continuum of third density.

May we ask if there are any brief queries at this working?

Thus, manniz, it looks like the apparent paradoxical tinge of evil mixed with love at the heart of creation, which down the road led to situations "where loving people have been caught in the whirlwind of torture and humiliation" (using a phrase that you used), will probably remain with us through the run of the present set of infinite creations. May be the LOO would illustrate the tragic situation or justify it in the following terms --

Free will does not mean that there will be no circumstances when calculations will be awry. This is so in all aspects of the life experience. Although there are no mistakes, there are surprises.

(Words of Ra extracted from 69.17)

For those who feel aggrieved with the apparent injustice, I think a very constructive thing to do would be to champion the cause against profligate pain by relaying our learning back to the core of creation, so that when the One Infinite Creator launches a 'new infinity', it would reflect the lessons that have been bought with a great price.

52.12 ↥ Questioner: Thank you. In mentioning, in the previous session, the harvest, you mentioned the light-bringers from the octave. Am I to understand that those who provide the light for the gradation of graduation are of an octave above the one we experience? Could you tell me more about these light-bringers, who they are, etc.?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working.

This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion.

Is there any brief query which you have at this time?

Till a new infinity comes around, probably there will be no direct satisfactory answer to the following haunting appeal that you have raised --

Give free will to darkness, but also protect the free will of its victims. No point to life without freedom. Even unconditional love needs freedom to experience, freedom to exist.

[xise]

Our purpose is self-discovery.

[Adonai One]

Which is inherently complete, fulfilled and perfected in this moment and the moment after, ad infinitum?

[manniz]

Till a new infinity comes around, probably there will be no direct satisfactory answer

[/quote]

Confused, this was an excellent post, which summarized the exact debate that I had in my mind over the last 10 years or so, which is slowly heading towards a state of peaceful balance in my mind, if not complete resolution - the question of evil vs. free will. Service to self is inherent in creation, which under the veil leads to evil, which inevitably has to be balanced by the whole creation with service to others, or the concept of unconditional love disappears forever. And with it, free will disappears forever. And, in this balance, we do our small parts, and provide honest feedback to the creation.

And in this thread I have reached that point, which I remember reaching with Unbound and GLB too that - me praising your quotes and posts is just gonna sound fuity now. Too much praise already.

But I like your curiosity about creation Confused. I have read your thread on time too multiple times, though not added anything to it, because I feel dumb and lazy, and time is a mind-bender that I would think about more after this life. Recently, there have been quite a number of concepts, where my mind thinks its better to wait until I am in my cozy, after-life throne, and then think about them. Reduce the stress for now.

---

I will add this, which was inspired by the last post and the Ra quotes:


Service to self is inherent to all life, but unity works by recognizing that inherent trait in all. Recognizing that service to others serves unity, and at the end of the day, service to others is also truly the service to yourself. Evil does not recognize the unity as such, and wants to pull everything in. Control, power, mastering of the whole existence. This taking of the service to self to the extreme rejects others' dominion over their own existence. It rejects unconditional love. It flowers under the heavy veil, because the veil substantially hides the reality of unconditional love. The material world creates an illusion that limits the overwhelming presence of unconditional love.

If veil is seen as an experiment, then conceptually you can take this experiemnt to its extreme by completely hiding the fabric of existence, which is love and free will. You can have a world, where the concept of free will and love are completely controlled by the controllers of that world. Any soul incarnating in that world would have no concept of freedom. It would have no choice, but to bend to the will of the masters of that world. At that point, the life will have no purpose, other than to survive by doing the bidding of the controllers. Even the desire to survive may disappear. Growth will stagnate, and may very well regress.

Can our creation perform such an experiment? And for me thats where the feedback comes in. We, as the participants of these experiments, are the best source of data to the creation. We are the variables that tell those setting up and running the experiment how much is too much. To what extent pain helps growth, but also the limits beyond which pain not only stops growth, but also regresses growth. Limits beyond which life has no purpose, no desire to grow, no desire to survive.

Data from us, our societies will tell the creation, how to calibrate future expeeriemtns with the veil. Otherwise, you can logically take veil to its extreme, and just have spiritually dead societies everywhere. You can take all purpose out of life, even the joy of survival out of life. Beingness won't have any meaning.

If you see the trend in the last few cycles in our own solar system, Maldek is destroyed, Mars lost its atmosphere, and Earth has already had two world wars, and may be headed towards full scale nuclear war, if not for external intervention. Yet, recent life on Earth has also provided art, joy, intense emotions, spiritual growth etc. So, the need is for the balance, and we have to provide our honest experience back to the creation, so it knows how to reach that balance. Otherwise, it can all go very dark, very fast.

It won't though. The inherent desire to serve the self does lead to evil under the veil, but rest of the creation observes the evil growing,observes these experiments under the veil and restores the balalnce of serving the self with serving the others too. Why am I so sure that this will eventually happen. Because, if we see existence as sets of infinite creations, then obviously the very fact that unconditional love is the true nature of the creation implies that serving the self has never breached the highest reaches of creation in the infinite chances that it has had in previous creations. If it had ever succeded, the concept of creation as unconditional love would have disappeared forever.

---

Confused, your ideas have made me go back to thinking life as an experiment. That is the conclusion my mind had reached, before getting interested in spirituality. That life was a series of experiments for someone. Aliens, universe wide intelligences whatever. it was a very mechanical sort of cocnept, and it depressed me for w hile. And thats where the Ra material helped me a lot.

Ra material gave me hope for more. Its true that life is a set of experiments, but the structure behind these experiments is a grand design in which the one infintie creator made sure that every participant in the experiment is an infinite creation in itself, and is simulatenously in the highest circles of existence, because each participant is that infinite creator itself. Gives me a whole different outlook on life, and the role of evil. Now, I see evil as a catalyst, rather than some primal, dark idea that eliminates meaning and purpose from life.

Still, we gotta question everything, and this creation has to make sure that those, who set up or run these experiments take responsibility for their decisions, and keep a close eye on all the experiences that we are providing from down here on the ground. Because for some, this life has truly sucked. It is easy to be spiritually satisfied, and forget those, who get tortured, get every ounce of life's purpose beaten out fo them through poverty, lack of hope and pure violence. Ultimately this whole creation's spirituality has to take their lives into account, and learn from them.

Confused, you mentioned traumatic events in your life, and an existential crisis. It is so good that you are asking questions, and presenting challenges, while maintaining compassionate love. That is beautiful to me, and reflects my own life. I have always had more hope from spirituality that arises out of questions and challenges. Because creation loves these challenges. The more we ask, the more we learn.

[AnthroHeart]

I haven't suffered near what a Nazi concentration camp would have been. And yet I have complained. It's so easy to get comfortable, and when that comfort is challenged, to become unbalanced. I have a lot to be grateful for.

[Stranger]

Michael, your post has led me to seek explicit answers from the Creator to clarify and verify the intuitive understandings I had about the nature of reality and suffering. This is a very lightly edited record - only personal details have been removed, but no words have been altered. Please be discerning and disregard any part of it that does not resonate.

The burning question I have is why was it necessary to take action in order to create the potential for, and then the reality of additional suffering if the goal is to explore the beauty of love? There are several assumptions in this question - please correct them if they are not accurate.

I understand your question, [Stranger], and this concerns once again the nature of suffering, the nature of the Creator that would permit suffering, and the associated questions - am I correct?

Yes, Father, thank you for clarifying that for me.

Now, once again, listen very intently for this answer is similarly complex to the preceding one. There is no suffering. It is as illusory as a mirage of smoke on the horizon at sunset, that is the truth. There is simply no reality to suffering that would allow it to be considered its own category of event in any sense that can be considered ultimate. Do you understand this?

No father, I do not.

I shall make another attempt. In the same way that you have realized that all existence is illusory, so is the experience of suffering, that is the truth. Within the context of suffering, there is truth to it. But in reality nothing suffers, and that is the truth. Things and beings, such as they are, consider themselves to be suffering, but underneath the very thin surface of that experience is an absolutely infinite ocean of loving-bliss, and that is the truth. Does that make better sense now?

You are saying that in the totality of a being's experience, suffering is a very light dusting, shall we say, on the surface of beingness that is always blissful, but forgets that it is so on a conscious level because of the various separators which have been put in place, such as the veil?

[Stranger], you have fully grasped the nature and meaning of what I was saying to you, and that is the truth. Do not doubt it. Just as you can feel extreme joy while having a tooth pulled - and yes, it is possible within the realm of your conscious experience, especially if the tooth had been infected - so does your inner being experience absolute bliss regardless of the surface suffering of which you may be aware, which may be expanded and focused upon to such an extreme extent that it begins to appear to fill the entirety of your being, but in reality nothing could be further from the truth.

It is helpful to keep in mind: that of which are consciously aware is only a minute fraction of that which we are, a bubble on the surface of the ocean.

[AnthroHeart]

I guess my purpose here is to have fun, however difficult that is sometimes.

Is that other people's purpose too? Are we here just to have fun, and trying to get all blissed out?

[isis]

I guess my purpose here is to have fun, however difficult that is sometimes.

Is that other people's purpose too? Are we here just to have fun, and trying to get all blissed out?

speculations

purpose shmurpose...the fact of the matter is: no1 can kno for sure...so why care much - or even at all?

i hope every1's primary purpose is to experience being a complete, whole, & perfect identity/creator/creation now & for an eternity - but i remain open to the fact that everything, every event, every last infinitesimal thing, could be absolutely meaningless & utterly unnecessary

i trust that 1 day we'll get to see the truth of the matter, what's it's all about, & whether or not there's ever any purpose...but i certainly can't kno for certain. the cold reality is that we may never kno

one can only speculate...or fool themselves into thinking they have the answer. the latter may be more beneficial. i wouldn't kno

[AnthroHeart]

I can't get blissed out when my mom turns my stomach with her profanity.

You're right that we may have no purpose. My original post was correct of how I feel.
I just posted it out of frustration, to sort of mock those guides and such who are on the other side.

If I can't experience what they have, I feel better by mocking them by saying we have no purpose.

[Unbound]

What feels better about that?

[Adonai One]

I'll defend the idea by saying that clinging to a purpose causes us to reject ourselves and the present moment when we do not fulfill it. I encourage letting go of all purposes and enjoying what exists no matter what in bliss.

[AnthroHeart]

What feels better about that?

It just feels good to have free will, that we might not even have on the other side of the veil. I guess I am exclaiming my gladness over my free will.

But I don't have total free will here. We are very much limited. But you're probably more limited when you see everything as one.

[Adonai One]

Indeed, you're not free when you cling to purpose absolutely: You're controlling yourself and potentially others by forcing compliance with one goal.

[Unbound]

Why would that be more limited? Why wouldn't we have free will without the veil?

---

Indeed, you're not free when you cling to purpose absolutely: You're controlling yourself and potentially others by forcing compliance with one goal.

Why is all purpose a matter of clinging? Why is a goal not worthy of itself?

[Adonai One]

Goals are fine but they should also be disposable. Happiness should still be found if a goal is never met, else the present moment is not being seen and enjoyed as a unified part of the creation.

We shouldn't need purpose. Purpose is just a tool that is just as good as a lack of purpose in enjoying oneself.

[AnthroHeart]

Not like I would want to do bad stuff, but if you see someone else as one with you, you can't/won't hurt them. So I'm not sure about defending yourself on the other side of the veil, how that works. You wouldn't want to hurt another, because you're hurting yourself. Only in separation does hurting others exist I think.

but then there's the battle between 4d negative and positive and there is no veil there. I don't know how a negative can hurt a positive if they see all as one.

[Unbound]

How does seeing all as one stop the flow of experience that may include any emotion or perceptual state?

Are all positives thus just immune to any kind of instigation? I don't believe so, myself.

---

Pain still exists without the veil, it is just accepted more easily.

[AnthroHeart]

My only understanding is the realization that if you hurt another you are hurting yourself.

[Unbound]

What does that realization reveal about reality?

[AnthroHeart]

There is truly no other self. There is only one of us here.

[Adonai One]

How does seeing all as one stop the flow of experience that may include any emotion or perceptual state?

Are all positives thus just immune to any kind of instigation? I don't believe so, myself.

---

Pain still exists without the veil, it is just accepted more easily.

42.2: ...The catalyst of experience works in order for the learn/teachings of this density to occur. However, if there is seen in the being a response, even if it is simply observed, the entity is still using the catalyst for learn/teaching. The end result is that the catalyst is no longer needed. Thus this density is no longer needed. This is not indifference or objectivity but a finely tuned compassion and love which sees all things as love. This seeing elicits no response due to catalytic reactions. Thus the entity is now able to become co-Creator of experiential occurrences. This is the truer balance.

[Unbound]

What is the use of having no response?

So, if there is one of us, what is your point? What does that entail? If it entails nothing, then why is it in any way meaningful to have that as a realization?

[AnthroHeart]

There being only one of us is only realized at the highest density. Till then we're still under the illusion of separation.

Though that is where I get confused, because behind the veil, wouldn't you see all as one? Or is that only in 7th or 8th density?

I don't know what experience is like on the other side of the veil. Maybe you realize there is only one of you, and that you're here for experience. You don't want to hurt yourself. But because we are blind to spiritual principles on this side of the veil, it seems like there is more apparent free will. That's what I was trying to get at.

When you know, you have the Law of Responsibility at play. Here we don't have it so intensely because of the veil. So we have more free will to do things that would violate that law on the other side.

[Unbound]

So how is any of that knowledge of any use where you are now?