A proposal

[Aion]

All philosophy is a justification of action, for good or for ill.

And all actions mirror your own potential to feel, with or without a sense of justification.

The feeling then just becomes another justification, whether or not there is a sense of it. The bland fact is that people care about their desires more than anything else.

[Diana]

I'm not advocating for someone to "play" a 6D negative. I'm neutral on that score and if there is anything of interest generated from it then I will participate or not.

So, because the forum is too harmonious, we need to instigate more chaos?

I don't see the idea as so black and white. "Too harmonious" can mean many things. It might mean there is a predilection here to be "nice" as opposed to honest, engendering sugar-coating or self-censorship to a debilitating degree. I would rather see honesty tempered with respectfulness, clarity, and being mindful of the guidelines.

If things get chaotic, I'm not sure that's a "bad" thing. However, I think I understand your comment, as, given the general consensus of the site, playacting STS might seem unnecessary within its context. I don't envy you and the other moderators who must balance so many considerations when moderating this forum.

I disagree that this is how a service to others group seeks to harmonize itself. A common goal would further our spiritual progress. This type of energy just dissipates into entropy.

I'm wondering about the words "harmonious" and "harmonize." I'm not sure harmonizing with each other is a goal I'm interested in. I am interested in furthering my spiritual progress as you mention. Harmonizing with this or any group is not inherent in the goal of furthering spiritual progress, in my opinion. It seems to me to be an expectation involving what I might expect from others, what might be expected of me, and a desire to fit in to something other than what I might be. If I were to harmonize with any individuals or groups, I would rather it be a flowing together from a natural magnetism, or in other words, not flowing from a desire, which is problematic because of the attachment to that desire.

First and foremost, I think there must be acceptance of self. If I am trying to harmonize with others or fit in, I am not accepting myself as is. But if I accept who I am unconditionally, I may be magnetized to others who harmonize with my signature.

I'm dubious as to whether or not I have articulated my meaning well. So anyone jump in here.

Groups like this should be a place of respite from the harsh blows of everyday realities and unenlightened beings, not a place to play some high-level polarity game where we ignore that whole bit about honor/duty/responsibility. I firmly believe that this is not how polarity works and is a strong perversion of the intent of the material.

The above bolded is perhaps one reason for this forum to exist, but not the only one I think. If that was the only reason I'm not sure how much spiritual growth would happen.

[Minyatur]

All philosophy is a justification of action, for good or for ill.

And all actions mirror your own potential to feel, with or without a sense of justification.

The feeling then just becomes another justification, whether or not there is a sense of it. The bland fact is that people care about their desires more than anything else.

I'd say desires/feelings are the cause of action, justification comes into play when you feel like you owe to justify your current conditions either to yourself because of your own lack of understanding and compassion for yourself, or to others because of their own lack understanding and compassion for you.

If we take Jade's expression of desire for power and control over this thread or forum based on her vision of what it should be and for which kind of other-selves she has compassion for and resonate, in that statement I saw wounds manifesting a negative distortion. And this is basically what I'm ever sharing on this forum, STS is hurt love. It's nothing very abstract or out of reach of understanding, it is actually quite simple and if one has distastes for that which is STS then what one has distastes for what one can become through being hurt. It is easy to see yourself as above others in the choices you make, but you are never above others, you stand at their side from the same Source and what has created negative distortions within you would have created negative distortions within all others, and what has created positive distortions within you would have created positive distortions within all others, there's never otherwise and there's none better nor lesser.

Acceptance gravitates toward being unconditional and all-encompassing as one's own point of view grows, and then it wouldn't aim at keeping different states of being and expressions of the same beingness as apart. Say GentleReckoning truly has a shitload of negativity within, should he be told to f*** off with his karma away? Like hey douchelord, there's much less hurt souls than your own here, so how about you f*** off away with your wounds so deep all other members of the forum put together might not even amount to. If you're hurt so badly that you became negative, maybe you should just die in a hole or something. (exaggeration intended to make a point)

[Glow]

All philosophy is a justification of action, for good or for ill.

And all actions mirror your own potential to feel, with or without a sense of justification.

The feeling then just becomes another justification, whether or not there is a sense of it. The bland fact is that people care about their desires more than anything else.

I'd say desires/feelings are the cause of action, justification comes into play when you feel like you owe to justify your current conditions either to yourself because of your own lack of understanding and compassion for yourself, or to others because of their own lack understanding and compassion for you.

If we take Jade's expression of desire for power and control over this thread or forum based on her vision of what it should be and for which kind of other-selves she has compassion for and resonate, in that statement I saw wounds manifesting a negative distortion. And this is basically what I'm ever sharing on this forum, STS is hurt love. It's nothing very abstract or out of reach of understanding, it is actually quite simple and if one has distastes for that which is STS then what one has distastes for what one can become through being hurt. It is easy to see yourself as above others in the choices you make, but you are never above others, you stand at their side from the same Source and what has created negative distortions within you would have created negative distortions within all others, and what has created positive distortions within you would have created positive distortions within all others, there's never otherwise and there's none better nor lesser.

Acceptance gravitates toward being unconditional and all-encompassing as one's own point of view grows, and then it wouldn't aim at keeping different states of being and expressions of the same beingness as apart. Say GentleReckoning truly has a shitload of negativity within, should he be told to f*** off with his karma away? Like hey douchelord, there's much less hurt souls than your own here, so how about you f*** off away with your wounds so deep all other members of the forum put together might not even amount to. If you're hurt so badly that you became negative, maybe you should just die in a hole or something. (exaggeration intended to make a point)

There are plenty of other places to be negative, very few that foster camaraderie and nurturing. This forum was after all created to be that refuge for wanderers. It is the responsibility of Jade the other moderators and even us forum members to protect the energy here. I can think of a few wanderers we have lost due to not being gentle enough or compassionate enough.

I will say the original post I thought was tongue in cheek so wasn't worried but really if one wants to be nasty or have someone be nasty to them why bring it here?

There are forums meant for self abuse. Reddit's roastme comes to mind, I bet there are dozens of places but I don't go looking for that.

[Aion]

All philosophy is a justification of action, for good or for ill.

And all actions mirror your own potential to feel, with or without a sense of justification.

The feeling then just becomes another justification, whether or not there is a sense of it. The bland fact is that people care about their desires more than anything else.

I'd say desires/feelings are the cause of action, justification comes into play when you feel like you owe to justify your current conditions either to yourself because of your own lack of understanding and compassion for yourself, or to others because of their own lack understanding and compassion for you.

If we take Jade's expression of desire for power and control over this thread or forum based on her vision of what it should be and for which kind of other-selves she has compassion for and resonate, in that statement I saw wounds manifesting a negative distortion. And this is basically what I'm ever sharing on this forum, STS is hurt love. It's nothing very abstract or out of reach of understanding, it is actually quite simple and if one has distastes for that which is STS then what one has distastes for what one can become through being hurt. It is easy to see yourself as above others in the choices you make, but you are never above others, you stand at their side from the same Source and what has created negative distortions within you would have created negative distortions within all others, and what has created positive distortions within you would have created positive distortions within all others, there's never otherwise and there's none better nor lesser.

Acceptance gravitates toward being unconditional and all-encompassing as one's own point of view grows, and then it wouldn't aim at keeping different states of being and expressions of the same beingness as apart. Say GentleReckoning truly has a shitload of negativity within, should he be told to f*** off with his karma away? Like hey douchelord, there's much less hurt souls than your own here, so how about you f*** off away with your wounds so deep all other members of the forum put together might not even amount to. If you're hurt so badly that you became negative, maybe you should just die in a hole or something. (exaggeration intended to make a point)

You justify everything to yourself first. It doesn't have to be conscious. If you choose to do something you have already justified it to yourself in some way.

Instead should we adhere to your own visions of freedom for the forum? Same difference, I suppose.

I don't think it is an accurate assumption that all entities engaging negative polarity are 'hurting' or doing so because of suffering, although I can see the desire to see every cruelty as the expression of a wounded being, but in my personal experience I have not found that to be the case. Some people genuinely just desire the negativity. Should they be judged? No, of course not, but that doesn't mean anyone is obligated to engage. That's the beauty of the same freedom you profess, no? Is it not also acceptable for Jade to feel her own response to the situation?

Either way if you are defending one side you are attacking another. Jumping down someone's throat and then calling them ungrateful if they don't appreciate it has nothing to do with their acceptance and more to do with a lack of a sense of personal boundaries. (Such as this adversarial approach to conversation.) It's the groundwork for trying to induce Stockholm Syndrome and is a very deceptive and manipulative form of relationship, in my opinion. Do as you please, but don't complain when someone calls you on it. I don't mean you personally, just in general.

I used to be the kind of person who was challenging on purpose because I thought it helped 'teach'. Eventually I realized that life is challenging enough and people don't need my added antagonism to 'show them the light', it's just ego.

So, sure, if people want to do it, 'all the power to them', but not everyone will want to play your games, and that's okay too.

[sjel]

Groups like this should be a place of respite from the harsh blows of everyday realities and unenlightened beings

I think you're correct, but not in the way you meant.

Basically I advocate that there be introduced a form of interaction in which the "attacker" very explicitly lays out why he is saying that particular incisive thing - and the responder, knowing that there is Love on the bottom of the statement, somewhere, can instead use the statement as a means to explore his own negativity, by way of his own reaction. Advanced positive people already do this, they know that every front of hostility is a case in which Love hides its face. And that in fact the case and the Love are one and the same.

But if the attacker is ALSO "in on it," if the verbal attacker ALSO knows that he is merely a disguised conduit for love, then the disguise becomes EVEN MORE transparent to the one who is looking for it. In this way the "attack" becomes a lesson, much more obviously than if the attack been unconscious and intentionally hurtful.

Also, this way, the attacking words lose meaning in REAL LIFE, TOO. Because then you can recall back to when you roleplayed this scenario with a positive seeker, and remember how his/her words were tongue-in-cheek hostility - EVEN if the words themselves are outrageously inciteful.


On a much more advanced level, a very aware, positive couple might roleplay a bondage scenario - yet the whole time each maintains the awareness of mutual and cosmic love. SIMPLY TO destroy the fear associated with bondage. When the fear is dissolved, the roleplaying of negativity is no longer necessary.

Likewise, on this forum, when the fear of another member's words is dissolved through this mock-hostile interaction, such an interaction is no longer relevant and won't happen again.

(no hostile interaction is "for real" - remember?? maybe by consciously pretending on the level of pretend that we unawakened entities know, we can expand our definition of "pretend")

[Aion]

That is an interesting idea but which relies on a lot of ideal conditions which are hard to achieve on an online forum.

Maybe a thread could be put up that is dedicated to such an idea which would be more focused than members just going around the forum antagonizing people.

[GentleReckoning]

I'm just here to teach. Your level of understanding of shadow and light is not really my responsibility...

[Aion]

I'm just here to teach. Your level of understanding of shadow and light is not really my responsibility...

And what is it you are teaching?

[GentleReckoning]

How to practice discernment. Check my other thread...

https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=14693

[sjel]

How to practice discernment. Check my other thread...

https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=14693

Naw check out these tight new shoes

They're irrelevantly placed upon my nonexistent feet

[Jade]

If we take Jade's expression of desire for power and control over this thread or forum based on her vision of what it should be and for which kind of other-selves she has compassion for and resonate

I don't have a personal vision of the forums. I have a set of guidelines that are my rules that we all have agreed to by posting here. Those rules include not furthering a negative philosophy, and respecting other selves, and no hate speech. Sjel made his version of this post, without anyone's permission, and it was so beyond anything that would ever be appropriate to post on this forum, that when I saw another thread that was the same idea, I was probably a bit pricklier than GR's tone alone asked for. But, based on the guidelines of the forum, I do not think this is an appropriate "exercise" given our intentions as a group.

I'm shocked that anyone would disagree that a service to others group wouldn't want to harmonize above all. Ra says it was the harmony of the trio that allowed them to continue their service in spite of all the set backs, negative greetings, and ill health of the group. Seems like a good effort to make to me, but obviously if the group is in disagreement on this fundamental level then that will be difficult to achieve.

I'm in a 7 year marriage. There is never even the thought of intentional antagonization of each other to further our growth. Learning to love better is the goal of service to others beings. Sure, the OP is providing a service of being a "difficult to love being" or whatever, but as I said, I have plenty of people in my real life who are challenging enough. If someone on this forum feels like they need to be furthered challenged by a stranger on the internet, there are many other forums out there. I do not believe this is the place to deliberately antagonize each other.

I'm just here to teach. Your level of understanding of shadow and light is not really my responsibility...

Unfortunately, as a moderator, what is my responsibility, is when someone purports to be here to "teach" and they themselves seem to have a tentative grasp on polarity as delineated in the Ra material. I think a lot of this thread is extremely confused about how polarity works. We are in third density. EVERYTHING is polarized. We must  "internalize the polarity of [our] dimension". We can't say "Well, Ra's approaching oneness, so I am too." No. You are incarnated in third density. You are supposed to choose. This is the whole point.

I think such people are actually more floating in the 'sinkhole of indifference' rather than doing any real polarizing, imo.

Yes, I've tried to make this point many times before. Polarity = power. Switching polarities back and forth does not create spiritual power. Choosing "oneness" (or not choosing a polarity) does not create spiritual power. Dedication to a path is what creates spiritual power. [19.19] The STO path just leads more quickly to the Oneness that we seek.

I'd also add I don't think the choice can be faked nor forced, so sometimes facing yourself in different ways is your only mean to make a choice.

The Choice is an act of the will. It must be made consciously. It's not going to be made for you.

Third density is "broken". Our planet is highly inharmonious, sick, bellicose, angry, hurt, etc etc etc, from an entire 75,000 year cycle of humans, starting with beings from Mars after they destroyed their sphere. As wanderers, we have incarnated to lighten and alleviate this planet's vibrations, not to engage with them or add to them. And we have to actively wake up and make that choice every day - at least, I know I do! Eventually, the more we make the choice consciously, the more it becomes unconscious - not the other way around.

94.12 Questioner: It seems to me that the Experience of the Mind would act in such a way as to change the nature of the veil so that catalyst would be filtered so as to be more acceptable in the bias that is increasingly chosen by the entity. For instance, if the entity had chosen the right-hand path the Experience of the Mind would change the permeability of the veil to accept more and more positive catalyst, and also the other would be true for accepting more negative if the left-hand path were the one that was repeatedly chosen. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is not only correct but there is a further ramification. As the entity increases in experience it shall, more and more, choose positive interpretations of catalyst if it is upon the service-to-others path and negative interpretations of catalyst if its experience has been along the service-to-self path.

[AnthroHeart]

Jade, is it possible then to only do Service to Others? Ra says it's hard to hit 51% STO. But is it really that hard?

I've learned to choose to stay positive and send love to my mom when she's cursing up a storm.

She keeps telling me I will repeat 3D, that I am incompetent and such.

She plans to move out next year, but I fear that she might be getting into more than she can handle.

Many people would have kicked her out already. But even talking about her like this might be an STS action.

I've told her twice that I loved her as an adult, even when it was hard.

But if I let her walk over me, I may have to repeat those lessons, because standing up for myself is part of that.
But I don't want to go out and betray her.

[Jade]

Jade, is it possible then to only do Service to Others? Ra says it's hard to hit 51% STO. But is it really that hard?

I've learned to choose to stay positive and send love to my mom when she's cursing up a storm.

She keeps telling me I will repeat 3D, that I am incompetent and such.

She plans to move out next year, but I fear that she might be getting into more than she can handle.

Many people would have kicked her out already. But even talking about her like this might be an STS action.

I've told her twice that I loved her as an adult, even when it was hard.

But if I let her walk over me, I may have to repeat those lessons, because standing up for myself is part of that.
But I don't want to go out and betray her.

I don't think it's possible to be 100% service to others. Ra says Carla approached 90% during the contact, and that was when her only effort at all was to be the instrument for the contact.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that when your mother says that you will repeat 3D, that she may be projecting. I believe you have graduated from 3D many many times before, Gem.

You're right; many people would have kicked her out already. Me? I ignore my mother's letters from prison. Not very selfless, is it? But at this point in my life, I have to protect myself from her, because she is truly one of the most conscious service to self people I've known in my real life. It's really easy for her, as my mother, to hijack my energy and use it for her purposes. I have to learn how to be me without her exerting her controlling influence over me. I hope that someday, when your mother moves out, that you are able to do that for yourself, too. She may not be able to handle living on her own, but if she wants to do it, and she gets out of your hair, I would take that as a blessing for you to be able to be your own person for a while, without her negative words confusing you all the time. You can't learn/teach for her - if she wants to continue to be mean and self destructive, and she wants to leave your house, then you have the blessing of the much less painful lesson of learning to love her from a distance.

Honestly, just your patience with your mother every single days proves your harvestability. You're right that most people would have kicked her out by now. But I don't think you're right that just talking about it with her is a STS action. We can't martyr ourselves into sickness, because we do have to serve ourselves a bit to be totally service to others. Creating space between you and your mother might be a bit of self service, yes, but it's hardly unwarranted in your situation. You have the right to not let people abuse you. Yes, it is a service to be that person, the one who takes their abuse and transmutes it into love, but those roles are going away because we are moving into 4th density. And, your mother is just practice - since you put up with so much from her, I'm sure you are able to look at the shenanigans of the rest of the world with more amusement and love than others are capable.

[xise]

Jades on the money, I distinctly remember there was a discussion years back about whether this was a forum that was for discussing and promoting all things consistent with the Law of One or whether we should limit the influence/discussion of STS philosophies. The latter was chosen...so this stuff is kinda old hat, and already been settled.

And I believe 100% service to others is possible and better described as all perfectly activated chakras, or can be also described as unconditional love, both descriptions which include the self as an equal to other selves in terms of receiving love from you. Hence my signature for the past few years. I think people also get confused by Jesus who did not have wisdom/a strong balanced blue ray, so he selfsacrificed (there is a specific Ra quote stating that heart-based martyrdom lacks wisdom).

[Minyatur]

I'd also add I don't think the choice can be faked nor forced, so sometimes facing yourself in different ways is your only mean to make a choice.

The Choice is an act of the will. It must be made consciously. It's not going to be made for you.

And how does an act of will happen?
Why is it made on a day and yet was not made before that day?

I don't think the 3D choice is something that even requires conscious awareness of the universal mechanics of polarity and importance of said choice. I think it necessitates sincerity in regard to yourself and the world that surrounds you, and that comes from experience into self-realisation with the mirror of self and other-selves. An act of will is an action that derives from sincere feelings, so it's not going to be made for you but you are going to be shaken and be thrown experiences to lead you toward a strong enough leaning that a choice is made.

What differentiates one that made this act of will and one who did not? I would think the culmination of the experiences they've had, as otherwise how could two make two different choices when truly they are One?

I don't think the choice isn't something to be made, but that it is something that happens naturally from within the journey of self-realization. Without the right culmination of experience, any act of will would be empty of sincere feelings and no matter what is said in the mind, which can very be the self lying to itself in what it desires, no actual choice was made for the nature of the choice lies in feelings and not words.

[Jade]

When you are aware there is a choice to be made, then there is a responsibility to that choice. Sure, in the long run, most people do make the choice unconsciously, but none of us here can really feign that type of ignorance.

Unconscious beings have experiences happen to them until they choose. Conscious beings make a choice and then their experiences follow to reinforce/challenge that choice. That is the difference that I see.

[smc]

Best wishes to you Jade.

I want you to know I completely support what you're saying.

The creation of this thread - and such quick and enthusiastic approval of it by many of the (currently dominant) members of B4 - makes a strong case for these forums being (energetically) under the influence of negative "greetings".

I'm refraining from further comment because I've tried addressing this serious issue so many times - to no avail.

Best wishes. Take care.

[Minyatur]

and such quick and enthusiastic approval of it by many of the (currently dominant) members of B4 - makes a strong case for these forums being (energetically) under the influence of negative "greetings".

Actually I would think otherwise.

Their only possible anchors are emotions of rejection that seek not to find acceptance. As such, approval has little power to provide any form of anchor for such greetings and it instead fully requires someone that feels disapproval and desires to teach/learn their sense of disapproval.

[Diana]

I'm shocked that anyone would disagree that a service to others group wouldn't want to harmonize above all. Ra says it was the harmony of the trio that allowed them to continue their service in spite of all the set backs, negative greetings, and ill health of the group. Seems like a good effort to make to me, but obviously if the group is in disagreement on this fundamental level then that will be difficult to achieve.

I'm in a 7 year marriage. There is never even the thought of intentional antagonization of each other to further our growth. Learning to love better is the goal of service to others beings. Sure, the OP is providing a service of being a "difficult to love being" or whatever, but as I said, I have plenty of people in my real life who are challenging enough. If someone on this forum feels like they need to be furthered challenged by a stranger on the internet, there are many other forums out there. I do not believe this is the place to deliberately antagonize each other.

Since I brought up the idea of not having the intention to harmonize, I just want to say that if the above is related to what I wrote, then I didn't express myself well and it was misunderstood. Some of the concepts we canvass here are not simple or black and white. By saying I don't seek to harmonize, I DO NOT mean I don't try to understand others, or have compassion for others, or try to connect with others in a way that isn't antagonistic. What I DO mean is that I won't force myself to fit into a box just because it might have certain qualities I admire. I can use this group as a reference point or inspiration, but not as a box to fit myself to—just as I can contemplate Ra and think how cool it would be to be part of that group, but I can't force myself into it, it must happen naturally.

Perhaps I'm too intellectual for some here. This may be just a matter of semantics, but clarity is important. In the gender thread (I don't recall the name of the thread), it was mentioned that B4 is dominated by too much intellectualizing. The same could be said, if one were inclined to judge which I am not, that things are too emotional here. I am not worried that things will get out of control. There is a safety catch after all.

I think it's fine to maintain the general goal of this forum, that of STO and not STS. (I am curious as to why Zaxxon was allowed to continue here for so long in the STS manner, though I never read any of his/her threads out of lack of interest.) As a moderator, it is your duty to enforce (for lack of a better word) the guidelines. But that's it, I would hope. A moderator can't tell me I have to fit in here. It's ironic isn't it? that so many come here because they feel they don't fit in elsewhere.

[Jade]

I guess it's my own interpretation that to work together, to become a social memory complex, that we must make sacrifices for our ways of being. If our ways of being involve separation, per Ra's description of the Transformation of the Mind, I believe that we must actively choose which traits we want to continue to carry with us through our incarnation and which traits we find cause more disharmony than harmony.

For instance, I understand that people here perceive me as emotional, shrill, etc. I do my best to temper these traits (obviously not always successfully) for the harmony of the forum, and to increase the potential for blue ray transfer/understanding. I believe it is our ego that holds on to traits of our personality that we believe serve us, yet separate us. If I admire a trait, and find it conducive to harmony, I will try to cultivate it in my own being. To me, this is the point.

As for the Zaxon thread, this occurred before I was a moderator and even before I was a poster so I can't comment on that. From what I remember of reading the thread, though, he didn't seem to be presenting himself as trying to fill a role as the antagonist here, nor purport to be happily willing to break everyone here's free will.

And I thoroughly understand that many people arrive here because they don't fit in elsewhere. That is one of my primary concerns. Where as this forum is meant to be a landing pad for people who have just discovered the material, instead it is filled with dominant personalities who have their own "personal" interpretation of the material that they have been cultivating themselves for a long time. I can't imagine how confusing of an experience it must be for new Law of One readers to read this forum, to come upon a thread like this that perpetuates one of the worst lies of third density/Christianity/martyrdom: That only through pain and struggle can we grow. I know this is a primary facet of third density, but it's also one of its main limitations if not addressed subconsciously.

[xise]

Forum guidelines about STS philosophies really seem to follow's Ra own advice regarding interaction with negatives (a negative greeting in the case below with Carla). We see and recognize them as the Creator, but we are not in resonance with them, we wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well. I think positive polarity interaction with negative philosophies is similar to treating a distortion - we recognize it and accept that is/was a part of us, we learn what the undistorted view is, and then we move past it - it'll always be a part of us in terms of being a part of our memory. At the end of the day, the negative path is just a distorted-imbalanced ray configuration where the green and blue rays are highly distorted and almost fully closed. I think many here understand this and are ready to move past such distortions, and for those who are not, there are always other forums. That being said, most of what is happening here is as others have said, just individuals playing out their own psychodrama as opposed to hardcore STS discussions.



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67.8 Questioner: In order for this group to be fully in service to the Creator, since we recognize this fifth-density entity as the Creator, we must also attempt to serve, in any way we can, this entity. Is it possible for you to communicate to us the desires of this entity if there are any in addition to simply ceasing the reception and dissemination of that which you provide for us?

Ra: I am Ra. This entity has two desires. The first and foremost is to, shall we say, misplace one or more of this group in a negative orientation so that it may choose to be of service along the path of service to self. The objective which must precede this is the termination of the physical complex viability of one of this group while the mind/body/spirit complex is within a controllable configuration. May we say that although we of Ra have limited understanding, it is our belief that sending this entity love and light, which each of the group is doing, is the most helpful catalyst which the group may offer to this entity.



67.10 Questioner: We have a paradoxical situation in that in order to fully serve the Creator at this level in the polarized section, you might say, of the Creation, we have requests, from those whom we serve in this density, for Ra’s information. In fact, I just had one by telephone a short while ago. However, we have requests from, in this particular case, another density not to disseminate this information. We have the Creator, in fact, requesting two seemingly opposite activities of this group. It would be very helpful if we could reach a condition of full, total, complete service in such a way that we were by every thought and activity serving the Creator to the very best of our ability. Is it possible for you to solve, or possible for the fifth-density entity who offers its service to solve, the paradox that I have observed?

Ra: I am Ra. It is quite possible.



67.11 Questioner: Then how could we solve this paradox?

Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that you have no ability not to serve the Creator since all is the Creator. In your individual growth patterns appear the basic third-density choice. Further, there are overlaid memories of the positive polarizations of your home density. Thus your particular orientation is strongly polarized towards service to others and has attained wisdom as well as compassion.

You do not have merely two opposite requests for service. You will find an infinite array of contradictory requests for information or lack of information from this source if you listen carefully to those whose voices you may hear. This is all one voice to which you resonate upon a certain frequency. This frequency determines your choice of service to the One Creator. As it happens this group’s vibratory patterns and those of Ra are compatible and enable us to speak through this instrument with your support. This is a function of free will.

A portion, seemingly, of the Creator rejoices at your choice to question us regarding the evolution of spirit. A seemingly separate portion would wish for multitudinous answers to a great range of queries of a specific nature. Another seemingly separate group of your peoples would wish this correspondence through this instrument to cease, feeling it to be of a negative nature. Upon the many other planes of existence there are those whose every fiber rejoices at your service and those such as the entity of whom you have been speaking which wish only to terminate the life upon the third-density plane of this instrument. All are the Creator. There is one vast panoply of biases and distortions, colors and hues, in an unending pattern. In the case of those with whom you, as entities and as a group, are not in resonance, you wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well. No more than this can you do for your portion of the Creator is as it is and your experience and offering of experience, to be valuable, needs be more and more a perfect representation of who you truly are. Could you, then, serve a negative entity by offering the instrument’s life? It is unlikely that you would find this a true service. Thus you may see in many cases the loving balance being achieved, the love being offered, light being sent, and the service of the service-to-self oriented entity gratefully acknowledged while being rejected as not being useful in your journey at this time. Thus you serve One Creator without paradox.

[Diana]

Where as this forum is meant to be a landing pad for people who have just discovered the material, instead it is filled with dominant personalities who have their own "personal" interpretation of the material that they have been cultivating themselves for a long time. I can't imagine how confusing of an experience it must be for new Law of One readers to read this forum, to come upon a thread like this that perpetuates one of the worst lies of third density/Christianity/martyrdom: That only through pain and struggle can we grow. I know this is a primary facet of third density, but it's also one of its main limitations if not addressed subconsciously.

And is your interpretation the right one?

Everyone has their own interpretation of the material (even if it is once removed and attached to someone else's interpretation). There is no getting around that. The problem as I see it is what I keep saying: to "believe" is to close doors. One's beliefs in one's own—or in the case of gurus or priests etc., or someone else's—interpretations of esoteric matters, given that there is no way to know everything at this point, are a recipe for judgments and control. If one has only working theories from which to operate, then one can be open to other input and new information.

The other point is this: it's imperative to think for one's self. If one does, then who cares about someone else's dogma, or beliefs, or interpretations? It doesn't matter, and that is not to say any of it should be shunned out of hand. There are various points of view. So, a newcomer may be advised to follow the guidelines based on a STO path, but to tell them they must adhere to another's interpretation of the Ra material and how one should act is control in my estimation. I would (and have) advise thinking for one's self; gather information, experiences, feelings, intuitions; threads emerge, resonance emerges—and so, an individual can forge their own way, make their own choices, and the path they took was their own, which to me is imbued with highly conscious awareness. 

As for the dominant personalities, what does that matter? Perhaps someone might come here who needs to learn to stand up for themselves, or develop confidence. Then being here with dominant personalities would be a gift. I'm not advocating for bullies. But the world is in constant flux, as we are as individuals. There have been bullies here in the past, and the moderators dealt with them. It must be difficult to draw a line in the sand regarding this. 

If the moderating team thinks this thread idea is not in line with the forum guidelines and intent, then no problem. Poof, done. 

I want to be clear that I think I understand you. From our own perspectives, it sometimes seems crazy or impossible that others don't see what we see as the obvious. But that is a problematic expectation, as most expectations are.

Certainly there is much suffering, catalyst, and trauma in the world and we don't want to duplicate it here. Neither, I would hope, do we want to baby each other like helpless victims. Somewhere in-between there is a sweet spot based on forum guidelines, as we already have, where the ideal lies. But that sweet spot can't be controlled tightly. It can be encouraged though, and the bottom line is that sometimes action has to be taken to keep the site on track. 

[Night Owl]

Congrats Gentlereckoning. I didn't actually believe you had any potential of manifesting what you were trying to do and it seems you have proven me wrong since that power has been given to you with open arms. I felt no emotional charge in your attempt but seems others do have an emotional charge about it. Now you have built a pyramid of control where one is controlling the control of someone else.

I would add though that I don't think being challenging means what it means in this thread. To me being challenging simply means being brutally honest, and I think that's what Sjel is ultimately going after, in which I see nothing wrong. However the idea of ''challenging'' that has been mentioned here seems to be for me more about being confrontational, or being in opposition. That is more about control than being honest. More people resonate with control than it appears it seems.

There is however nothing in this thread about the original post or about any subjects that are feared to be manifesting so I'm guessing it will not go further anyway.

[GentleReckoning]

Let us then, consider the nature of catalyst. All catalyst is processed, refined, and turned into wisdom eventually~no if ands or butts. Or it can be realized as that which is transcended. Eventually, all catalyst is transcended. Anything which causes catalyst, then is service, it provides soul expansion. So it is impossible to not serve others 100% of the time completely regardless of your intentions.

I would at this point say that based on my experience, it is actually those which serve unconditionally cause the most damage. They repress their own desires, damaging the connection to their spirit complex, and sapping their vital energies constantly. From this state, they are largely unable to enact positive change in their own lives or the lives of others. They live out their programming to a T. And it's basically up to being 'lucky' whether any healing of others or self takes place. Now on top of that, there is STS exploration of consciousness in this STO configuration. The vast majority of 'STO' entities do develop a well tuned third eye, but at the cost of service to everyone but their own 'religious' tribe.

Conveniently, the ability to serve one's self (tribe), and other selves (other tribes) naturally attracts a large amount of power. Because speaking to the heart of one's desires makes one desirable. If one is desirable, then one is in a place to bargain for one's own wants and needs. Unfortunately, despite Quo often advocating for the beneficial aspect of power, there is a subconscious meme that says that any understanding or development with the intention of developing the power of the self is wrong... Power doesn't make one right or wrong, it simply allows choice. There is even the choice not to act as well. Anyway, if someone would like to make a counter argument I would love to explore any of these concepts further.

[GentleReckoning]

Congrats Gentlereckoning. I didn't actually believe you had any potential of manifesting what you were trying to do and it seems you have proven me wrong since that power has been given to you with open arms. I felt no emotional charge in your attempt but seems others do have an emotional charge about it. Now you have built a pyramid of control where one is controlling the control of someone else.

I would add though that I don't think being challenging means what it means in this thread. To me being challenging simply means being brutally honest, and I think that's what Sjel is ultimately going after, in which I see nothing wrong. However the idea of ''challenging'' that has been mentioned here seems to be for me more about being confrontational, or being in opposition. That is more about control than being honest. More people resonate with control than it appears it seems.

There is however nothing in this thread about the original post or about any subjects that are feared to be manifesting so I'm guessing it will not go further anyway.

Challenging is simply confronting a thought. Without the freedom to challenge, the incarnation is ruled completely by hunches and intuition while wisdom is left by the wayside. Quo says to challenge. Jesus says to challenge. I'll assume that Ra did as well, although I do not remember off the top of my head.

What happens when you challenge? The teacher steps up. If you don't challenge the teacher, the teacher gets very lazy. How would you like to be guiding someone that never asked why? Someone that just follows you blindly. Blind faith leads to blindness. Questioning opens up infinity.

May I ask what you feared? It seems to me that this forum is developing spiritually at a much slower pace than many of it's former members... (that tend to come back and bla bla bla for a bit)

[Cainite]

I guess it's my own interpretation that to work together, to become a social memory complex, that we must make sacrifices for our ways of being. If our ways of being involve separation, per Ra's description of the Transformation of the Mind, I believe that we must actively choose which traits we want to continue to carry with us through our incarnation and which traits we find cause more disharmony than harmony.

For instance, I understand that people here perceive me as emotional, shrill, etc. I do my best to temper these traits (obviously not always successfully) for the harmony of the forum, and to increase the potential for blue ray transfer/understanding. I believe it is our ego that holds on to traits of our personality that we believe serve us, yet separate us. If I admire a trait, and find it conducive to harmony, I will try to cultivate it in my own being. To me, this is the point.

As for the Zaxon thread, this occurred before I was a moderator and even before I was a poster so I can't comment on that. From what I remember of reading the thread, though, he didn't seem to be presenting himself as trying to fill a role as the antagonist here, nor purport to be happily willing to break everyone here's free will.

And I thoroughly understand that many people arrive here because they don't fit in elsewhere. That is one of my primary concerns. Where as this forum is meant to be a landing pad for people who have just discovered the material, instead it is filled with dominant personalities who have their own "personal" interpretation of the material that they have been cultivating themselves for a long time. I can't imagine how confusing of an experience it must be for new Law of One readers to read this forum, to come upon a thread like this that perpetuates one of the worst lies of third density/Christianity/martyrdom: That only through pain and struggle can we grow. I know this is a primary facet of third density, but it's also one of its main limitations if not addressed subconsciously.

yesterday I was dreaming and I found myself in a room and I knew it was ''the bring4th office'' and to my right there was a female sitting behind a desk. I somehow knew she was the forum's moderator. So I thought it's you. I started talking to you and we had a very comfortable conversation for about five minutes. I was quite happy to be there and enjoyed the conversation.

then a guy appeared to my left. I knew he was one of the admins. my conversation with him felt more intense. I remember him asking me ''Would you stand up for somebody?''
I replied quickly ''If I have the skill, yes''
Then he said the person he wants me to stand up for is a buddist.
then I woke up!
I wake up a lot at night..

So I think the dream tells me how I feel about this forum. there's this female energy that makes this place feel warm. and the male energy that's trying to teach me to stand up for myself and others.

[GentleReckoning]

Whoops, a guide just swooped by and let me know: "Wisdom is power." Very relevant.

[Night Owl]

Challenging is simply confronting a thought. Without the freedom to challenge, the incarnation is ruled completely by hunches and intuition while wisdom is left by the wayside. Quo says to challenge. Jesus says to challenge. I'll assume that Ra did as well, although I do not remember off the top of my head.

What happens when you challenge? The teacher steps up. If you don't challenge the teacher, the teacher gets very lazy. How would you like to be guiding someone that never asked why? Someone that just follows you blindly. Blind faith leads to blindness. Questioning opens up infinity.

May I ask what you feared? It seems to me that this forum is developing spiritually at a much slower pace than many of it's former members... (that tend to come back and bla bla bla for a bit)

You are right about "challenging" in the context of spiritual material but I was refering to how it was previously used in the thread which I don't think it was what it was refering to.

I do believe the student must challenge the teacher. I would also say that to teach you must learn and to learn you must teach. You say you want to teach, then what is it you are learning?

I do not fear the content of this thread it appears to me like it has not even begun. I see no point in talking about what could happen when nothing has happened. If this thread is judged as not serving the forums the option to take it down is never far away. However I don't think anything of that sort manifested yet, only the apparent need for control that many are tied to. I prefer just discussing what it is you want and see what happen from there.

[xise]

I guess it's my own interpretation that to work together, to become a social memory complex, that we must make sacrifices for our ways of being. If our ways of being involve separation, per Ra's description of the Transformation of the Mind, I believe that we must actively choose which traits we want to continue to carry with us through our incarnation and which traits we find cause more disharmony than harmony.

For instance, I understand that people here perceive me as emotional, shrill, etc. I do my best to temper these traits (obviously not always successfully) for the harmony of the forum, and to increase the potential for blue ray transfer/understanding. I believe it is our ego that holds on to traits of our personality that we believe serve us, yet separate us. If I admire a trait, and find it conducive to harmony, I will try to cultivate it in my own being. To me, this is the point.

As for the Zaxon thread, this occurred before I was a moderator and even before I was a poster so I can't comment on that. From what I remember of reading the thread, though, he didn't seem to be presenting himself as trying to fill a role as the antagonist here, nor purport to be happily willing to break everyone here's free will.

And I thoroughly understand that many people arrive here because they don't fit in elsewhere. That is one of my primary concerns. Where as this forum is meant to be a landing pad for people who have just discovered the material, instead it is filled with dominant personalities who have their own "personal" interpretation of the material that they have been cultivating themselves for a long time. I can't imagine how confusing of an experience it must be for new Law of One readers to read this forum, to come upon a thread like this that perpetuates one of the worst lies of third density/Christianity/martyrdom: That only through pain and struggle can we grow. I know this is a primary facet of third density, but it's also one of its main limitations if not addressed subconsciously.

I have to agree with Jade that in my recent return to the forum there seems to be a lot of purposely distorted views of the material, which is quite obvious to tell because there is not even an attempt to use www.lawofone.info and search for the relevant passages; instead there seems more of the desire to just post stream of consciousness thoughts without significant care for what the material says on the subject. 

Which is to be expected (or at least I expect it) as this is an internet forum and most forums are !@#$ shows (though bring4th is definitely less so), but I can totally get how it could pose a quandary for moderators who are supposed to encourage forum discussions which are grounded in the material in some fashion or at least follow the forum guidelines.