Ayahuasca – A discussion

[Jade]

I see this as the same, in a way, for natural vs. synthetic. If we take a look at the earth and nature, absolutely everything we could possibly need is provided by her - for instance, we can get DMT from the ayahuasca. But that's not enough. We want a quicker fix. So we try to contort nature to do things for our benefit, instead of cultivating patience to wait for her to provide for us what we need. It's a subtle thing but I think it's important to take into consideration. There's a reason why the ritual to extract the DMT is so intense and profound, to synthesize that step in a lab cheapens it IMO. This is the case with most things.

Okay, but someone could have just as much reverence with a substance synthesized in a laboratory as a with a substance synthesized or extracted by a shaman in the forest. Reverence comes in many forms. I've met people that have done nearly exactly what IGW did and had great reverence for the chemicals even though they were pharmaceuticals and not derived manually from some plant out in the jungle. And they had fantastic and positive spiritual experiences. I don't think one can really judge what is a "plundering and prostituted" act from the outside. The charge of any action can't be known from that angle.

At the end of the day, what is nature? It is simply the natural behavior of the organisms that comprise it: mineral, fauna, and flora, and the weather. And nature naturally gave rise to animals, of which all do that which is natural to themselves. The human animal is simply doing what is natural to them, and thus everything that "seems" synthetic is actually part of nature to. The portion of your argument I agree with is the idea to have respect and reverence for the substances of nature, but everything in this world is produced by nature. Afterall, humans are a part of nature, so anything they produce is an extension of that nature.

The stuff that most of population confuses as "natural" is just as likely to harm your mind and body as things produced by humans (which as I said, is really also part of nature). There are tons of cases of people accidentally eating the wrong plant and either dying or ending up in a hospital. Point being: anything can be a detriment or a benefit, depending on its relativity to the experiencer.

The thing of importance is balance, and any substance can play a role in that balance whether it was combined in a laboratory, or combined in a plant out in the forest.

I don't disagree with you, I was just attempting to frame nature vs. "unnatural" in an archetypical discussion. Of course it's ultimately mind over matter, but I guess I believe with this philosophy, that when you are trying to "mind over matter" you are using the negative transformation of the mind. The STO path is about acceptance of things as they are, and changing them passively through that acceptance.

Anyway, my point again: I believe there is a reason that DMT has hidden itself so thoroughly and traditionally is extracted from a very intense ritual. Those who have been able to isolate the molecule in a laboratory have likely not done this with service to others intentions, or with the highest intent for the molecule, as "laboratory pharmaceuticals" are one of the biggest cash cows available, at least in America. Again, if we use the prostitute/maiden metaphor, it's like taking your maiden and having someone strip off all of her clothes for you, and then you find her already "primed". Where as an ayahuasca ceremony is more about patiently waiting for the maiden to take off her clothes for you, and reveal herself.

My many apologies, I'm sort of obsessed with this analogy now, but I think it's universally applicable. Yes, I think it's possible to "court" the DMT molecule in its extracted form (as I've said before), but I shared the quote where Ra said that time honored rituals are much more useful/powerful than ones we would create on our own, using the scalpel instead of the blunt instrument. The blunt instrument can still be useful, of course.

Either way, I don't think either you anagogy or Minya would ever have a negatively polarizing experience while doing entheogens. But, the way we look at the resources of other selves is highly important, and very especially in this case when we're talking about a highly elusive substance. I think Gem's tale is cautionary enough for all of us, for when we think about using the drugs in their more "recreational" form.

I also think YY is on to something with the shaman being a highly tuned channel for the spirit of DMT. Shaman have spent decades in their forests and dedicated their lives to cultivating the relationship they have with these plants with true service to others intent. I do think it's possible for a lab scientist to have the same experience, yes, I'm not saying it's impossible. But I'm saying that one path is -typically- one transformation of the mind and the other path is -typically- of the other transformation of the mind.

Again, we wrap back around to "purity of intention". I'm sorry if you think I'm being judgemental, but this is the Transformation of the Mind. It's very important to be honest with ourselves with how we view the resources of others.

I just posted this in the Facebook group too, but I also just got done watching through all of Harry Potter. There is a point where Dumbledore tells Harry, "The time will come when you must choose between what is right and what is easy" - this is the Transformation of the Mind. Yes, obtaining the extracted form of DMT is easier, but is it the "right" way? I mean of course there is no "wrong" way, but there is a divergence of the paths. I also agree that they are tools and I am not opposed to them (though I also feel no need for them). But it's how we see these tools for our use that is important, that's my only point, I'm just advocating caution for taking the "quick fix" route of action for something so serious.