07-31-2014, 03:03 PM
first of all, thanks for the thoughts. I've been trying to reword my understanding of the spirit (and its influence) upon the incarnate personality in the last few days, and these are just some tentative fumblings at reaching for concepts and trying to put them into place. Feedback is always stimulating when it comes to clarifying one's own position. So your thoughts are most welcome.
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I can fully get on board with both these statements. I like the statement of 'Spirit as identity'.
The Hierophant is also well described.
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truly an exquisite metaphor for the process of growth and change!
I guess my use of the term 'Group Mind' could be misleading. It could easily be taken as a reference to a 'Social Memory Complex', which is properly a 4th and 6th Density Phenomena. I believe that in 5th Density, the choice to learn as a social memory complex is optional, and one can have small 'study groups' instead of a society-wide clustering of intentions and collective resources.
To speak to your question of re-wording: "Perhaps it is better to say that the animal mind does not yet have an essential "self" consciousness?"
do you think by having the mind complex active as a 2d entity (whether that be animal, tree, or insect) it already has what we could recognise as a self-consciousness? It is just that through the 'investment of love', through attention and unique experiences offered to it, it starts to become 'self-aware', in the sense of the yellow ray chakra been given stimulus. It is almost like a monkey looking into a mirror and seeing/thinking - hey, I am actually an individual, and not part of a swarm of insects doing the one thing in a unified dance.
I think, to paraphrase some Ra, yellow ray is about one's individual self-awareness within a social environment, and one how interfaces and phrases that situation to the self. In a pet, this is given a lot of stimulus to the 2d mind to become aware of that individuality within a group.
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ok, now we are getting into the Archetypes proper. About time! some readers might be thinking
thanks for expressing this point. I understand what you are saying in that they are not a 'one-to-seven' ticking of the clock, in terms of sequence and that it is HAS TO step in order from one to the next.
That said, the very ordering of the categories does suggest some sort of building of concepts from the Matrix onwards, and Ra themselves offered this as an observation on Card 7:
The Archetype Seven is one difficult to enunciate. We may call it the Path, the Way, or the Great Way of the Mind. Its foundation is a reflection and substantial summary of Archetypes One through Six.
and there is also the pairing of Category types which suggests that they work together in some sort of synergy or co-ordination at a deep level. That said, each card is unique and independent on it's own, and can be invoked for it's own sake, without explicit reference to any other archetype, as you pointed out in your stetement above.
I think my own statement of: "That is, the action of the Star, the Moon, and the Sun, which culminate in the paired functioning of the Judgement and the Cosmos cards." might have been overly strong in hindsight, and that the word 'culminate' might suggest the 'progression' that you referenced.
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I think my statement quoted has been influenced by my own understanding of what the Catalyst of the Spirit is and does. That is, the Star (or Faith) is that which inspires and prompts a type of deeper seeking. That said, in re-examining my thoughts, I think I might be holding onto a concept pattern that is more in line with 'Hope', rather than the concept complex of 'Faith' that Ra recommended as a more fitting name for this archetype.
I think your statement of: "We are here to work ON Spirit. Spirit is not coming down here to improve the Mind." has a wonderful quality when paired with your diamond analogy of the spirit from earlier. I can definitely see your viewpoint now, and how this changes the overall nature of the relationship between Mind and Spirit. Thank you.
I think this is well expressed as well.
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I understand your point that there is no 'ordering/progression' to the cards, in that there is no pre-requisite to absorb the understandings of card 14 before moving onto card 15 for example.
again, I think my words quoted might have been overly stated, and that I would relax them a bit if I expressed them again.
in hindsight, I think I have conflated an earlier concept that Ra offered when Don asked about the techniques that could be used to contact intelligent infinity. This was from very early on in the sessions, and Ra recommended that the mind be worked upon first, then the body, and finally the spirit.
Firstly, the mind must be known to itself. This is perhaps the most demanding part of healing work. If the mind knows itself then the most important aspect of healing has occurred, for consciousness is the microcosm of the Law of One.
The second part has to do with the disciplines of the body complexes. In the streamings reaching your planet at this time, these understandings and disciplines have to do with the balance between love and wisdom in the use of the body in its natural functions.
The third area is the spiritual, and in this area the first two disciplines are connected through the attainment of contact with intelligent infinity.
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again, these are statements that I would not disagree on.
perhaps through accessing and utilising the Archetypes of Spirit we are able to be put into contect with deeper layers of the Self, and that it is this which offers the satisfaction and deep connection (and purpose) that I am somehow alluding to, in my own clumsy way.
But yes, the Spirit Archetypes in themselves may not have any purpose intrinsically as you say
I definitely agree that archetypes 6 (The Lovers) and archetype 14 (The Alchemist) are huge spurs for action.
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@Confused, thanks for your clarification.
Would a more accurate way of wording my statement be:
"And so the spirit complex here speaks of (the possibility of) polarity, ....."
with the words added in the brackets?
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(07-31-2014, 12:15 PM)ricdaw Wrote:(07-31-2014, 03:00 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: what is the spirit? what does it do?
I propose that Spirit is identity. The fundamental "I am" of me.
Mind is personality. Card 5 is the amalgam of past life learnings and biases put into the present incarnation.
I can fully get on board with both these statements. I like the statement of 'Spirit as identity'.
The Hierophant is also well described.
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(07-31-2014, 12:15 PM)ricdaw Wrote: Many facets = lots of growth and experience. Shiniy brightness = more polarity. Clear color = more development. Etc. When we go back into Time/Space we remember why we come down here to ELS in the first place. Maybe there was this dark smudge on a facet that we wanted to "rebalance" and "correct" (aka "karma"). Rather than simply accepting the smudge (an action we can always take here or in Time/Space) we were instead motivated to correct it. So we planned a life with some catalyst that offered us the opportunity to "make a better choice." Or to experience for ourself what we done to someone else. There are a million variations. But the goal is to advance or progress the shiny Spirity diamond of Who We Really Are. This is the task of spiritual evolution. We (recursively) work on ourselves.
truly an exquisite metaphor for the process of growth and change!
(07-31-2014, 12:15 PM)ricdaw Wrote: I'm not sure there is textual support for "group animal mind" in the Ra Material. Group Mind is a 5D experience. Perhaps it is better to say that the animal mind does not yet have an essential "self" consciousness?
I guess my use of the term 'Group Mind' could be misleading. It could easily be taken as a reference to a 'Social Memory Complex', which is properly a 4th and 6th Density Phenomena. I believe that in 5th Density, the choice to learn as a social memory complex is optional, and one can have small 'study groups' instead of a society-wide clustering of intentions and collective resources.
To speak to your question of re-wording: "Perhaps it is better to say that the animal mind does not yet have an essential "self" consciousness?"
do you think by having the mind complex active as a 2d entity (whether that be animal, tree, or insect) it already has what we could recognise as a self-consciousness? It is just that through the 'investment of love', through attention and unique experiences offered to it, it starts to become 'self-aware', in the sense of the yellow ray chakra been given stimulus. It is almost like a monkey looking into a mirror and seeing/thinking - hey, I am actually an individual, and not part of a swarm of insects doing the one thing in a unified dance.
I think, to paraphrase some Ra, yellow ray is about one's individual self-awareness within a social environment, and one how interfaces and phrases that situation to the self. In a pet, this is given a lot of stimulus to the 2d mind to become aware of that individuality within a group.
- -
ok, now we are getting into the Archetypes proper. About time! some readers might be thinking
(07-31-2014, 12:15 PM)ricdaw Wrote:(07-31-2014, 03:00 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: it is this ongoing interplay between the Devil and the Lightning (or darkness/confusion and illumination/clarity) which generates all the activity of the cards that follow in the chain of Spirit Archetypes. That is, the action of the Star, the Moon, and the Sun, which culminate in the paired functioning of the Judgement and the Cosmos cards..
The cards are not a progression sequence. Ra stated that a number of times to Don, who really held to that concept a lot in his questioning. They are stand-alone archetypes which could be accessed in any order.
thanks for expressing this point. I understand what you are saying in that they are not a 'one-to-seven' ticking of the clock, in terms of sequence and that it is HAS TO step in order from one to the next.
That said, the very ordering of the categories does suggest some sort of building of concepts from the Matrix onwards, and Ra themselves offered this as an observation on Card 7:
The Archetype Seven is one difficult to enunciate. We may call it the Path, the Way, or the Great Way of the Mind. Its foundation is a reflection and substantial summary of Archetypes One through Six.
and there is also the pairing of Category types which suggests that they work together in some sort of synergy or co-ordination at a deep level. That said, each card is unique and independent on it's own, and can be invoked for it's own sake, without explicit reference to any other archetype, as you pointed out in your stetement above.
I think my own statement of: "That is, the action of the Star, the Moon, and the Sun, which culminate in the paired functioning of the Judgement and the Cosmos cards." might have been overly strong in hindsight, and that the word 'culminate' might suggest the 'progression' that you referenced.
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(07-31-2014, 12:15 PM)ricdaw Wrote:(07-31-2014, 03:00 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: but rather that the Spirit is the thing which influences the overall direction and life sculpting of the mind...
I need to disagree. It is the Mind, activated in 3D, housed in a living Body, that seeks to polish and sculpt AND ACT UPON the Spirit. We are here to work ON Spirit. Spirit is not coming down here to improve the Mind.
I think my statement quoted has been influenced by my own understanding of what the Catalyst of the Spirit is and does. That is, the Star (or Faith) is that which inspires and prompts a type of deeper seeking. That said, in re-examining my thoughts, I think I might be holding onto a concept pattern that is more in line with 'Hope', rather than the concept complex of 'Faith' that Ra recommended as a more fitting name for this archetype.
I think your statement of: "We are here to work ON Spirit. Spirit is not coming down here to improve the Mind." has a wonderful quality when paired with your diamond analogy of the spirit from earlier. I can definitely see your viewpoint now, and how this changes the overall nature of the relationship between Mind and Spirit. Thank you.
(07-31-2014, 12:15 PM)ricdaw Wrote:(07-31-2014, 03:00 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: (The Spirit) is the thing which motivates, satisfies, is rewarding beyond a moment, and is not as transient as the other two complexes. The spirit, in a way, speaks to accumulated polarity, or the ability to work with the stuff of the universe - that is light.
Polarity is only important for graduation from 3D. It is not an ultimate Spiritual End, in and of itself. Nor is the ability to work with light. We ARE light and we are seeking to make ourselves the Very Best Light that We Can Imagine Ourselves To Be.
I think this is well expressed as well.
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(07-31-2014, 12:15 PM)ricdaw Wrote:(07-31-2014, 03:00 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: Before true spiritual work can be done, however, there is a certain order in play. The foundation of the archetypes are cards 1-7, those of the mind, which are followed by 7 more archetypes of the body, before we reach the elucidation and the illumination of the Spirit Archetypes.
Again, the cards are not a progression. There is no order in the sequencing.
I understand your point that there is no 'ordering/progression' to the cards, in that there is no pre-requisite to absorb the understandings of card 14 before moving onto card 15 for example.
again, I think my words quoted might have been overly stated, and that I would relax them a bit if I expressed them again.
in hindsight, I think I have conflated an earlier concept that Ra offered when Don asked about the techniques that could be used to contact intelligent infinity. This was from very early on in the sessions, and Ra recommended that the mind be worked upon first, then the body, and finally the spirit.
Firstly, the mind must be known to itself. This is perhaps the most demanding part of healing work. If the mind knows itself then the most important aspect of healing has occurred, for consciousness is the microcosm of the Law of One.
The second part has to do with the disciplines of the body complexes. In the streamings reaching your planet at this time, these understandings and disciplines have to do with the balance between love and wisdom in the use of the body in its natural functions.
The third area is the spiritual, and in this area the first two disciplines are connected through the attainment of contact with intelligent infinity.
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(07-31-2014, 12:15 PM)ricdaw Wrote:(07-31-2014, 03:00 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: so in short, the Spirit Archetypes function to give our overall life meaning and purpose; beyond the daily activities of the mind and the body. They keep us on track on what is truly important, and what we truly value, even if some of those things get lost in the distraction and the busyness of a working-day life.
I think the Spirit Archetypes describe the state of Spirit, or basic Spiritual characteristics, but they do not guide or give any purpose intrinsically. They are no more or less important than the other 15 cards and their Archetypes. Probably the most important cards from a "purpose" point of view would be the Lovers (card 6), Chariot (card 7) and Temperance (Card 14). These exhort choice and action.
again, these are statements that I would not disagree on.
perhaps through accessing and utilising the Archetypes of Spirit we are able to be put into contect with deeper layers of the Self, and that it is this which offers the satisfaction and deep connection (and purpose) that I am somehow alluding to, in my own clumsy way.
But yes, the Spirit Archetypes in themselves may not have any purpose intrinsically as you say
I definitely agree that archetypes 6 (The Lovers) and archetype 14 (The Alchemist) are huge spurs for action.
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@Confused, thanks for your clarification.
Would a more accurate way of wording my statement be:
"And so the spirit complex here speaks of (the possibility of) polarity, ....."
with the words added in the brackets?