Winter Solstice of 2011/ Harvest approaching?

[JeiaRaManuk]

Tenet,
I like this idea of yours:

"What I've imagined about this is that 6D negative would become aware that all the efforts made along the negative path were put to positive use in higher densities. So it is kind of like coming to the realization that, at the highest levels of "conspiracy" are actually positive beings and that the dark has actually been working for the light all along. Albeit unconsciously, and causing much unnecessary suffering along the way."

I'm just gonna draw some parallels I think are important, but I wont assume anything more than what Ra gives us, for the sake of no further disagreement

All higher selves exist in late 6th density. So because there is no time there, we are already there.
late 6th density does not have negative orientated beings. Ra explains that a being must choose the 6th density positive, because even if they do get to ascend into 6th density negative, there is no more room to grow and thus they accept the LOO and move on. Ascension to 7th density is when all those beings in 6th density give up any last notions of separation and separate awareness and enter into a state of being one with all. So logically, yes there is no way a 6th density negative being could ascend into 7th density due to its orientation. Thus all of us, essentially have a higher self that is 6th density positive. That means we all end up there. Even those to remain negative all through 4th, 5th and early 6th density, have a 6th density positive higher self.

A 6th density being like Ra, and here I do assume something of my own, is free to travel both space/time and time/space. So although they contacted Earth some 25,000 years ago and then contacted Carla in the 80s, they might've done that at the same moment.

Just some food for thought, Enjoy!

[Tenet Nosce]

Thanks for sharing those interesting ideas and insights! I would add to this:

late 6th density does not have negative orientated beings.

This may be true, however there are beings who graduated into 6D on the negative path. So there are those who made the switch, and those who did not.

So it is looking like there are 4 general flavors of beings in early 6D:

1. Mind/body/spirit complexes which graduated on the positive path. (M.B.S.C.+)

2. Mind/body/spirit complexes which graduated on the negative path. (M.B.S.C.-)

3. Social memory complexes which graduated on the positive path. (S.M.C.+)

4. Social memory complexes which graduated on the negative path. (S.M.C.-)

Continuing along these purely speculative lines of thought- I can imagine how the "next step" would involve MBSCs pairing up with SMCs in various combinations. I think this is what Ra refers to as the mind/body/spirit complex totality. But I am not sure.

Either/or could take the role of conscious (Significator) or subconscious (Potentiator). So I see four different flavors of combination available here: M.B.S.C.+/S.M.C.+ M.B.S.C.-/S.M.C.+ M.B.S.C.+/S.M.C.- M.B.S.C.-/S.M.C.-

Now, keep in mind that the pluses or minuses are only referring to the entity's orientation upon graduation into 6D, not their status in mid- to late 6D where this hypothetical pairing off might occur. As you said, late 6D does not have negatively oriented beings. However, I would image that beings who graduated on the negative path have unique perspectives and talents to offer which those who graduated on the positive path do not.

I also wonder if some beings actually choose to re-enter the incarnative cycle in order to polarize on the opposite path from which they first arrived in 6D. I can see how having graduated on both paths could greatly increase the service a given entity is able to offer.

Actually, now that I think about it... what if it weren't even possible for an entity to graduate on the negative path if they hadn't already graduated on the positive path in a previous round of incarnation??! What a doozy it would be to come to that realization! Maybe that is what catalyzes the 6D negatives to make such a rapid switch. Upon "arrival" the entity realizes that it is already there, as you said, in the positive Higher Self manifestation, and so becomes fully aware of its previous experiences, and remembers why it left 6D to follow the negative path in the first place.

But this is all just speculation and conjecture, of course.

I wont assume anything more than what Ra gives us

Ra did give us this... which I think is fully congruent with the notions you expressed.

The progress is normally from the understanding which you now seek to a dimension of understanding which is governed by the laws of love, and which seeks the laws of light. Those who are vibrating with the Law of Light seek the Law of One. Those who vibrate with the Law of One seek the Law of Foreverness.

---

You must have misunderstood - the notion of the post (and linked thread) is that each of have this entire incarnation to polarise, balance and serve others.

Actually, I don't read this particular transcript to say that when taken in the larger context of the entire session, or the transcripts in general. Particularly with respect to the many comments about taking the "straw poll". According to my understanding, in order to be harvested, one must be harvestable. Yet, as I have also said, I perceive the actual "cutoff" point of 51% to be much lower than some others perceive. However, for those who choose to remain in the sinkhole of indifference, this sphere will no longer support their physical incarnation post-2012. It is a matter of whether or not they respond to 4D catalyst.

But I have learned the folly of attempting to argue about this particular concept. Though I will note that I don't think you have correctly characterized the OP's position on the matter. But I will let Jeia address that herself, if she so chooses.

Thus it's fantastic news. Each of us have a lifetime to make the most of, not just until the winter solstice next year.

According to your understanding, what will become of those who, by their own free will, would prefer to remain in the sinkhole of indifference? And what about those those choose the negative path?

The harvest is not the end date, it's the start date (opportunity to ascend upon death) for those incarnated as it passes!

According to my understanding, "ending" and "starting" are two sides of the same coin. So it is not really an either/or situation. Although I can understand how many people would conceive of it as such.

[zenmaster]

Not quite. 5th-density negative beings and social complex graduate to 6th density, and are basically extremely wise negative beings. They then balance to positive during the early part of 6D (what, a few million years?).

Yes, there does appear to be a time/space for 6D negative. Though I don't know how much sense it makes to think of it in terms of linear 3D terms.

Ra gives us the average length in these densities, in 3D terms.

According to my understanding, the switch can be quite dramatic and occur in an "instant" at least according to 6D standards of "time".

In an "instant", perhaps, but that's not the point. It takes some working in cooperation with 6D STO, as we're told.

The later part of 6D has no polarity (duality) at all.

I'm not sure this is true. Remember, entities may graduate to 6D either as a social memory complex, or as a mind/body/spirit/complex.

I don't think you just read what I wrote (again), but just in case:

We seek now without polarity. Thus we do not invoke any power from without, for our search has become internalized as we become light/love and love/light...

We are those who are of the Law of One. In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one....

We wished to impress upon those who wished to learn of unity that in unity all paradoxes are resolved...

---

There are however things Ra refused to comment upon regarding the 6th density negative beings, hence there are a couple blanks when it comes to understanding this concept.

That's because of our hopeless misunderstanding of what 'STO' and 'STS' actually imply.

But over all, a few million years?

If 6D is measured in thousands of millions (billions) of years. A few million would be much less than 1% of a 6D cycle. Reasonable to assume that 1% is within the early part of 6D.

Ra don't feel time as we do. We have to keep in mind that while we are experiencing this flow of time, Ra is outside of it as all 6th density beings. And because we all already have a 6th density higherselves it means we all eventually end up there and are already there observing it all again, from a side, outside of time.

We do keep that in mind, and that consideration is brought to bear on a matter when appropriate. "We are not a part of time and, thus, are able to be with you in any of your times."

[Whitefeather]

That's because of our hopeless misunderstanding of what 'STO' and 'STS' actually imply.

STO and STS is all about ENERGY. That is all!

. It is about 51% or 95% of energies whether forcefully taken whether given and shared.

. It is about energy transfers, giving energy in deeds, words, thoughts, emotions, etc. It can be done in numerous ways through physical labor, information, healing, meditation, caring, compassion, focus, eating, etc.

. Also, the nature of the energy transfer is a determinant factor for polarization. As a common example, judging someone means sending them negative energy therefore, it is an STS action. While compassionate and caring feelings, even at a distance is nurturing and giving, therefore it is STO.

. It is also about acceptance of self on one hand (STO) and, refusal of self (STS) on the other hand.

All these are energies and, energies are constantly circulating and transferred from one point to another.

Hope that helps!

L/L

[zenmaster]

That's because of our hopeless misunderstanding of what 'STO' and 'STS' actually imply.

STO and STS is all about ENERGY. That is all!

And exactly what is not "all about ENERGY"?

[Conifer16]

How does that have anything to do with what whitefeather wrote?

[zenmaster]

How does that have anything to do with what whitefeather wrote?

What does what whitefeather wrote have to do with understanding 6D STO or STS state of being and actions? i.e. "...the nature of the energy transfer is a determinant factor for polarization. As a common example, judging someone means sending them negative energy therefore, it is an STS action. While compassionate and caring feelings, even at a distance is nurturing and giving, therefore it is STO." (we all get it - 3D STO nurturing and accepting vs STS dominance and control).

Ra refused to comment on the nature of 6D negative, due to our misunderstanding of polarity - and the inevitable confusion resulting in attempting to introduce concepts which would be highjacked, hopelessly misunderstood, and grossly distorted. There would be consequences - "infringement".

We are still learning "ethics" in 3D. And as Ra said, "It is unlikely that there is a more pithy or eloquent description of the polarities of third density than service-to-others and service-to-self due to the nature of the mind/body/spirit complexes’ distortions towards perceiving concepts relating to philosophy in terms of ethics or activity."

Whitefeather would probably claim an ethical standard beyond 3D (i.e. "heart" vs "mind"), and from such a transcendental standpoint, interpret 6D polarity. I'd say whitefeather is completely incapable of apprehending, via heart or otherwise, the polarizing conditions, actual ethical considerations, of anything beyond vague 3D notions. Speculation may lead somewhere, but that's not what was provided.

[Conifer16]

No one is capable of comprehending any of this. I see Sts and STO as just providing service to self and service to others. All other ways of looking at it are human in nature. Sts does not equate evil or bad or negative just as STO isn't good or positive. All that IMO is a human interpretation, and I or you can't know for sure till we leave this veil(and maybe not even then), Sts is nessasary for growth as is STO both are "good" if one must put a label to them. Only the way they are exspresed in our reality have created a way to see them as bad because an Sts entity would kill to serve themselves and an STO would help the other to help themselves, which in and of itself is an Sts action.. None of it matters. The creator is Sts. That doesn't make it(being creator) good or bad it just is, as we all are. No point arguing about something we might never be able to answer, or at least not for a very very long time.

-Conifer16- Adonai Vasu Borragus

[Namaste]

According to your understanding, what will become of those who, by their own free will, would prefer to remain in the sinkhole of indifference? And what about those those choose the negative path?

They will live out this incarnation, like everyone else.

Upon death, they will be placed on another 3D sphere suitable for continued learning (to make the choice). STS entities who make 4D will too incarnate next in the supporting density and sphere.

The harvest is not the end date, it's the start date (opportunity to ascend upon death) for those incarnated as it passes!

According to my understanding, "ending" and "starting" are two sides of the same coin. So it is not really an either/or situation. Although I can understand how many people would conceive of it as such.

Indeed. Think of 21/12/12 as a marker in time of the window of opportunity that opens. That window is the harvest, the ability to move on.

It's simple. All incarnated at this time will live out their lives, making choices and polarising (or not). Post 21/12/12 (or whenever it is, Ra was not specific), upon death of the physical vehicle "by natural laws", each will walk the steps of light.

This is why Ra states the harvest is an anomaly in the death-reincarnation cycle (as asked by Don - what happens after we die).

Upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.

1. Die (space/time)
2. Walk steps of light (time/space)
3. Placed in suitable density (t/s)
4. incarnate in said density (s/t or t/s depending on density)

Note how the anomaly of harvest is within the death-reincarnation process (time/space, as Ra also states). It is not during an incarnation. There is no transition. We move between densities through the vehicle of death.

As Ra states, each density is distinct, and electrically incompatible.

This is all directly from Ra. The ideas of moving to a light body after 2012 while in these 3D/yellow ray bodies are creations of the incarnated will/desire.

This is why I find it fantastic, we have our whole lives to serve. That's why we came here, after all :¬)

[Tenet Nosce]

They will live out this incarnation, like everyone else.

Yes, Namaste, but that in itself doesn't mean anything. There are right now 1 BILLION people who might starve to death before 2012 arrives. Starving to death is not "living one's life out naturally". Similarly, those who are unable to utilize 4D catalyst will have an increasingly difficult time remaining physical in this plane. They will spiritually starve due to less and less 3D catalyst being available to them. According to my understanding, when the soul feels that no more growth is possible from a given incarnation, it's time to get a-croakin'!

It is said that spirit doesn't give one more than they can handle. Well... some people can't handle a world based upon mutual respect and cooperation. They haven't prepared themselves for it. They haven't done the work. This is why spirit provides a means for them to continue their journeys on a different world.

As for the "new earth"- they don't want it. Some don't even believe it is possible. Therefore, what is the purpose in being here? What benefit is it to them to continue with an incarnation in this world, which will be increasingly contrary to their free will? In addition, what benefit is it for everybody else to have people still lurking around who are hell-bent on refusing spiritual growth?

Upon death, they will be placed on another 3D sphere suitable for continued learning (to make the choice). STS entities who make 4D will too incarnate next in the supporting density and sphere.

So, in your view, the timing of their death has little to do with whether or not they have been doing the inner work? I am really having a hard time understanding how you can think this new set of spiritual lessons can be rolled out to humanity in an environment where a good portion of them would just as well blow each other up with nuclear bombs. The universe does not give fourth-grade lessons to those who are still at a kindergarten level.

And if we put kindergartners in a fourth-grade class, what happens is that all the students who were prepared to learn the lessons get put on the backburner while all the efforts are spent to remediate the ones who weren't supposed to be there in the first place. See... we have already been doing this for quite some time. We already have been waiting for these stragglers to catch up. Many of them have. Others have folded their arms and dug their heels in even deeper.

You appear to be overlooking that attempting to work on advanced spiritual lessons without having been sufficiently prepared is what got humanity into this mess in the first place.

[Namaste]

They will live out this incarnation, like everyone else.

Yes, Namaste, but that in itself doesn't mean anything. There are right now 1 BILLION people who might starve to death before 2012 arrives. Starving to death is not "living one's life out naturally". Similarly, those who are unable to utilize 4D catalyst will have an increasingly difficult time remaining physical in this plane. They will spiritually starve due to less and less 3D catalyst being available to them. According to my understanding, when the soul feels that no more growth is possible from a given incarnation, it's time to get a-croakin'!

It means everything; we're each here for our own lessons. The higher selves of those 1 billion chose that incarnation. Don't confuse "naturally" with "in a warm confortable bed". I mean in terms of 3D and it's lessons/catalyst.

The full Ra quote:

To answer your query about death, these entities will die according to third-density necessities.

That includes starvation, unfortunately.

It is said that spirit doesn't give one more than they can handle. Well... some people can't handle a world based upon mutual respect and cooperation. They haven't prepared themselves for it. They haven't done the work. This is why spirit provides a means for them to continue their journeys on a different world.

As for the "new earth"- they don't want it. Some don't even believe it is possible. Therefore, what is the purpose in being here? What benefit is it to them to continue with an incarnation in this world, which will be increasingly contrary to their free will? In addition, what benefit is it for everybody else to have people still lurking around who are hell-bent on refusing spiritual growth?

They are trapped in the third density illusion. They have forgotten. More third density experience is required in which to learn the lessons of love.

Ra: I am Ra. This query is more complex than most. We shall begin. The incarnation pattern of the beginning third-density mind/body/spirit complex begins in darkness, for you may think or consider of your density as one of, as you may say, a sleep and a forgetting. This is the only plane of forgetting. It is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex.

Wanderers may also forget...

Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? Or what density do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to avert the destruction.

Upon death, they will be placed on another 3D sphere suitable for continued learning (to make the choice). STS entities who make 4D will too incarnate next in the supporting density and sphere.

So, in your view, the timing of their death has little to do with whether or not they have been doing the inner work? I am really having a hard time understanding how you can think this new set of spiritual lessons can be rolled out to humanity in an environment where a good portion of them would just as well blow each other up with nuclear bombs. The universe does not give fourth-grade lessons to those who are still at a kindergarten level.

And if we put kindergartners in a fourth-grade class, what happens is that all the students who were prepared to learn the lessons get put on the backburner while all the efforts are spent to remediate the ones who weren't supposed to be there in the first place. See... we have already been doing this for quite some time. We already have been waiting for these stragglers to catch up. Many of them have. Others have folded their arms and dug their heels in even deeper.

You appear to be overlooking that attempting to work on advanced spiritual lessons without having been sufficiently prepared is what got humanity into this mess in the first place.

You appear to have misunderstood the rather simple notion being offered :¬)

We incarnate here; we're offered catalyst; we die (somehow). When we die, thanks to the anomaly of the harvest, we get the chance to ascend to a higher density. If we're ready, we do. If we're not, we don't. It's as simple as that. There is no unfairness as this dance of experience is eternal; each will get all the opportunity then need, equally.

[βαθμιαίος]

Harvest occurring at the time of death doesn't preclude some kind of global extinction event as a precursor. ("The [earth] changes are very, very trivial. We do not concern ourselves with the conditions which bring about harvest.")

Maybe this is why Ra said the 100-700 year transition could not be accurate -- perhaps the volatility of our peoples has the potential to trigger a mass die off through something like war, famine, or disharmony-induced earthquakes.

[Namaste]

Harvest occurring at the time of death doesn't preclude some kind of global extinction event as a precursor. ("The [earth] changes are very, very trivial. We do not concern ourselves with the conditions which bring about harvest.")

Maybe this is why Ra said the 100-700 year transition could not be accurate -- perhaps the volatility of our peoples has the potential to trigger a mass die off through something like war, famine, or disharmony-induced earthquakes.

Indeed. I remember thinking that when Wilcock mentioned in one of his talks "We didn't get all the way here to be wiped off the planet by a huge solar flare" (or something to that effect), but, in the grand scheme of things, why not? It's a possibility, and in fact became a reality for many - Japan etc.

[Etude in B Minor]

Upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.

To be pedantic, this Ra quote does NOT state that Harvest requires death. It merely (as written) describes how Harvest works when Harvest occurs upon death. It is anomalous since the after-death experience is different when Harvest occurs than when it does not.

The Ra quote does not rule out the possibility of Harvest during life. Indeed, it has been stated elsewhere as saying an adept can become Harvestable during life through accessing the gateway to intelligent infinity. I can envision an "acension" process by which a group of living people attain Harvestability through some mass raising of consciousness that results in their accessing intelligent infinity.

[Tenet Nosce]

We incarnate here; we're offered catalyst; we die (somehow). When we die, thanks to the anomaly of the harvest, we get the chance to ascend to a higher density. If we're ready, we do. If we're not, we don't. It's as simple as that. There is no unfairness as this dance of experience is eternal; each will get all the opportunity then need, equally.

I don't believe that I said anything to contradict this, nor do I consider the process unfair. What I am attempting to convey is that, on an individual basis, those who are unwilling to keep pace with the increasing vibratory frequency of the planet will not be able to maintain physicality here.

[Namaste]

To be pedantic, this Ra quote does NOT state that Harvest requires death. It merely (as written) describes how Harvest works when Harvest occurs upon death. It is anomalous since the after-death experience is different when Harvest occurs than when it does not.

The Ra quote does not rule out the possibility of Harvest during life. Indeed, it has been stated elsewhere as saying an adept can become Harvestable during life through accessing the gateway to intelligent infinity. I can envision an "acension" process by which a group of living people attain Harvestability through some mass raising of consciousness that results in their accessing intelligent infinity.

Although this is related to dual activated bodies, one would imagine that they have the upper hand with regards to ascension into 4D, and could assume that 3D bodies fall under the same rules.

Questioner: You are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth-density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

Notice how in this quote, like the other, Ra specifically states that the 3D body dies.

When Ra speaks of the adept becoming harvestable, or enlightened, he mentions something different...

Questioner: I don’t know if this question is related to what I am trying to get at or not. I’ll ask it and see what results. You mentioned in speaking of the pyramids the resonating chamber was used so that the adept could meet the self. Would you explain what you meant by that?

Ra: I am Ra. One meets the self in the center or deeps of the being. The so-called resonating chamber may be likened unto the symbology of the burial and resurrection of the body wherein the entity dies to self and through this confrontation of apparent loss and realization of essential gain, is transmuted into a new and risen being.

Ra never states that the entity that becomes harvestable ascends into 4D in that incarnation.

---

We incarnate here; we're offered catalyst; we die (somehow). When we die, thanks to the anomaly of the harvest, we get the chance to ascend to a higher density. If we're ready, we do. If we're not, we don't. It's as simple as that. There is no unfairness as this dance of experience is eternal; each will get all the opportunity then need, equally.

I don't believe that I said anything to contradict this, nor do I consider the process unfair. What I am attempting to convey is that, on an individual basis, those who are unwilling to keep pace with the increasing vibratory frequency of the planet will not be able to maintain physicality here.

Would explain what you expect? Supporting Ra quotes would be appreciated, although I appreciate this takes time :¬)

[Tenet Nosce]

Would explain what you expect? Supporting Ra quotes would be appreciated, although I appreciate this takes time :¬)

My apologies, but I can't really think of anything that I haven't already quoted elsewhere ad nauseum. I've offered a panoply of Ra quotes on this topic, as well as many from Hatonn and Q'uo. I have even extended my research and discussions to include some lesser-known channeled entities such as Yadda and Amira, to see if these other entities have a different perspective than that offered by the more commonly-known channeled entities. I must say that these varied entities all appear to be in congruence, at least insofar as I am able to discern with my limited 3D mind.

But in a more pragmatic sense, this has done little to change the perspective of those who disagree with these teachings. For those who have already made up their minds, they tend to "take what resonates" by cherry-picking quotes which support their views, even if the greater context of the transcript(s) in question do(es) not. This makes it exceedingly difficult to state a case based upon quotes from the material, and in actuality, tends to piss more people off than it enlightens, and bears little fruit where spiritual purposes are concerned.

Fortunately, in my view, anybody who would at least bother to contemplate whether or not they have an STO orientation is likely well beyond the minimum "score" necessary to pass to the "bonus rounds" of this particular incarnative context. Which probably means, that anybody who is taking the time to read this very post has already "made the grade" so to speak. So in that sense, it is of little consequence who turned out to be "right" in our disagreements, as we will presently be faced with more pressing, and interesting, issues to attend to.

Therefore, I will just keep my further comments here under the umbrella of "speculation". As such, I speculate that people who refuse to step out of the "sinkhole of indifference" and make a choice to be of service will, in quite short order, find their incarnation coming to a close, in one way or another. In the end, it really doesn't matter anyway as no soul is ever fully lost in eternity.

In any case, I have little doubt that whatever happens will go down in such a way as to allow people to continue believing whatever they want to believe. Such is the nature of this density.

Awakening is a process, not a destination. But in order to truly awaken, and not simply make believe that one is awakening, there must needs be a willingness to accept the fact that one was previously wrong. That one was a fool. And a pigheaded stubborn fool at that.

I embrace my foolishness on a daily basis. And not a week goes by that I don't come to some new realization that makes me out to have been a blithering idiot.

Yet there are certain ideas or understandings that I have settled into that tend to not change so much over time. Even upon questioning them internally again and again, I keep coming up with the same answer. Even upon confirming my intuitions again and again with the material, I keep coming up with the same answer.

Am I a fool? Yes, I certainly am. But what does that say for the other who would perceive that I am not yet aware of my own foolishness? It's kind of like somebody calling Ra a hypocrite... and them replying... umm... yes... I thought we covered that back in 1.4.

[Namaste]

My apologies also then, I'm lost as to what we're talking about :¬)

I've been responding to your questions regarding my own understandings. Have I offended you somehow?

But in a more pragmatic sense, this has done little to change the perspective of those who disagree with these teachings. For those who have already made up their minds, they tend to "take what resonates" by cherry-picking quotes which support their views, even if the greater context of the transcript(s) in question do(es) not. This makes it exceedingly difficult to state a case based upon quotes from the material, and in actuality, tends to piss more people off than it enlightens, and bears little fruit where spiritual purposes are concerned.

Likewise brother, we all do it. I have chosen not to cherry pick from non-Ra sources relating to the ascension process, which is what you have yourself done. All fo the Ra quotes provided point to death as the gateway, and of 3D and 4D being incompatible.

The key thing is, I'm open to anything different. If 2012 passes and I can fly - brilliant. I'm just not going to plan for it, rather look ahead with open positive expectation. I'm not trying to force people to believe what I do either, rather offer some feedback regarding the Ra Material. I'm simply stating that Ra does not mention ascension within this 3D incarnation.

[Tenet Nosce]

My apologies also then, I'm lost as to what we're talking about :¬)

I think we may have been talking past one another. No worries. Happens all the time.

I've been responding to your questions regarding my own understandings. Have I offended you somehow?

No, I am not offended in the least. Though I do feel some anger when my posts are not responded to in the full context in which they were written. But that is probably more due to the nature of online forums, than any particular person.

Likewise brother, we all do it. I have chosen not to cherry pick from non-Ra sources relating to the ascension process, which is what you have yourself done.

Actually, Ra didn't once use the word "ascension". That term was employed by Wilcock, back when he had the ascension2000.com website. I don't subscribe to the notion of the "ascension process" as espoused by DW, so it is unclear how I have cherry-picked from sources to support my belief about it.

But more to your point- I don't cherry-pick from the transcripts. I take each particular comment in the context of the totality of the transcripts, and from there draw my conclusions, and/or make speculations. This is actually the exact opposite of "cherry-picking", which I specifically described in my previous post.

All fo the Ra quotes provided point to death as the gateway, and of 3D and 4D being incompatible.

I understand Ra holds the perception that death is the gateway to further experience. But that isn't really saying much other than that life doesn't "end" upon death.

As for 3D and 4D being "incompatible", I have little idea as to what you mean by this.

If 2012 passes and I can fly - brilliant.

Yes, you can fly... in 4D. But 3D earth is not becoming 4D earth.

I'm simply stating that Ra does not mention ascension within this 3D incarnation.

Again, Ra does not mention "ascension", whatsoever. To be frank, I am doubtful you are even responding to my views. You seem to be responding to somebody else's views here. Perhaps if we backed up, this discussion would be more fruitful.

Would you mind restating my views on this topic, according to your understanding?

I will do the same- it seemed to me that you were saying that people who have not qualified themselves as "harvestable" by the end of 2012 will have the rest of their natural lives to do so. By "natural lives" I took that to mean that somebody whose body is currently aged 30 years will have another 50+ years to pull themselves out of the "sinkhole of indifference". Is this an accurate representation? If not, please correct.

[AnthroHeart]

Awakening is a process, not a destination. But in order to truly awaken, and not simply make believe that one is awakening, there must needs be a willingness to accept the fact that one was previously wrong. That one was a fool. And a pigheaded stubborn fool at that.

Am I a fool? Yes, I certainly am. But what does that say for the other who would perceive that I am not yet aware of my own foolishness? It's kind of like somebody calling Ra a hypocrite... and them replying... umm... yes... I thought we covered that back in 1.4.

I can agree with this. Back when I was learning to be a conscious creator, I made some stupid decisions. In life I tend to worry over petty stuff. I've been quite foolish when I had a creator mindset and was going thorugh an experience of creating a universe within me. Including violating free will of the creation, and such, which such decision sent me through quite a negative experience.

But you learn from your foolish mistakes.

---

Yes, you can fly... in 4D. But 3D earth is not becoming 4D earth.

Doesn't that depend on which timeline you're on? There are infinite possibilities.

[Tenet Nosce]

Doesn't that depend on which timeline you're on?

Well... there is/was a "timeline" where 3D entities are/were offered a path to manifest 4D abilities before having attained the requisite level of awareness and compassion. According to my understanding, this tends to not turn out so well. But to answer your question, I suppose yes, it may depend on which "timeline" you're on.

There are infinite possibilities.

There are an infinite number of ways to travel from NYC to LA. None of them involve heading north.

[Namaste]

Likewise brother, we all do it. I have chosen not to cherry pick from non-Ra sources relating to the ascension process, which is what you have yourself done.

Actually, Ra didn't once use the word "ascension". That term was employed by Wilcock, back when he had the ascension2000.com website. I don't subscribe to the notion of the "ascension process" as espoused by DW, so it is unclear how I have cherry-picked from sources to support my belief about it.

But more to your point- I don't cherry-pick from the transcripts. I take each particular comment in the context of the totality of the transcripts, and from there draw my conclusions, and/or make speculations. This is actually the exact opposite of "cherry-picking", which I specifically described in my previous post.

It was merely a reflection; you mentioned picking elements from other channeled sources in which to support your beliefs. Ironically, one could label that cherry picking :¬)

I too do my best to talk in the totality of the material, and in fact, that's the point in making (trying to make). In the totality of the Ra Material there are multiple references to the necessity of death in which to incarnate into 4D, during the harvest. There are none that imply ascension (don't get caught up in the terminology here, we know what this means - 3D to 4D) happening within a space/time incarnation.

That's the crux of my point I'm attempting to convey. If you don't agree, that's entirely valid. We can end this discussion there and be on our merry ways :¬)

I understand Ra holds the perception that death is the gateway to further experience. But that isn't really saying much other than that life doesn't "end" upon death.

Death of the 3D vehicle is the gateway to the harvest in time/space; walking the steps of light.

As for 3D and 4D being "incompatible", I have little idea as to what you mean by this.

Ascension is a process, the raising of one's vibration. The harvest is an event; an aspect of ascension that moves one between densities. One does not ascend from 3D to 4D during an incarnation, the bodies are not compatible. Hence, death is necessary.

If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

If 2012 passes and I can fly - brilliant.

Yes, you can fly... in 4D. But 3D earth is not becoming 4D earth

That's my point. 3D are 4D are discrete densities of experience.

I'm simply stating that Ra does not mention ascension within this 3D incarnation.

Again, Ra does not mention "ascension", whatsoever. To be frank, I am doubtful you are even responding to my views. You seem to be responding to somebody else's views here. Perhaps if we backed up, this discussion would be more fruitful.

Ironically that's how I feel my friend! :¬)

As mentioned before, the word ascension is just a label. It's the topic of this thread, the move from 3D to 4D.

Would you mind restating my views on this topic, according to your understanding?

I will do the same- it seemed to me that you were saying that people who have not qualified themselves as "harvestable" by the end of 2012 will have the rest of their natural lives to do so. By "natural lives" I took that to mean that somebody whose body is currently aged 30 years will have another 50+ years to pull themselves out of the "sinkhole of indifference". Is this an accurate representation? If not, please correct.

Yes, as 2012 is nothing but a marker indicating that the process of the harvest is now available to humanity upon death. Something that hasn't been available for the last 25,000 years.

People will die by third density necessities (Ra's words), and will then walk the steps of light, because the anomaly of harvest is upon us in time/space.

People are getting distracted by the 2012 date itself and accompanying prophecies (none I might add, from the Ra Material) of a spontaneous ascension into 4D, either instantly or gradually.

Rather than putting one's efforts into that, it would be wise to spend each day finding love in the moment. That's the real reason we're here.

There are an infinite number of ways to travel from NYC to LA. None of them involve heading north.

Just for fun - what if one wanted to take the farthest route possible - around the globe? I think you'll find that NYC to LA via heading North is entirely possible :¬)

[Tenet Nosce]

In the totality of the Ra Material there are multiple references to the necessity of death in which to incarnate into 4D, during the harvest. There are none that imply ascension (don't get caught up in the terminology here, we know what this means - 3D to 4D) happening within a space/time incarnation.

That's the crux of my point I'm attempting to convey. If you don't agree, that's entirely valid. We can end this discussion there and be on our merry ways :¬)

I mostly agree with the crux of your point. But I don't see it as a counterpoint to what I previously said. I didn't say anything about "ascension" happening within a space/time incarnation. In fact, I don't think I ever said such a thing at any time in this forum. Somehow this mischaracterization of my views keeps following me around here, and I do not fully understand how this came about, or why it continues.

All I -ever- said to this particular point was that I see a possibility that it might be possible for a wanderer to live a simultaneous existence in 3D and 4D, and be able to pass their consciousness between worlds much as one does when passing from the waking to the dream state.

What I was originally commenting on in this particular thread is my feeling that all humans remaining physical post-2012 will indeed be harvestable. As you said, they will be harvested upon death and taken to the 4D earth sphere.

An equal, but opposite, way to say this is that all humans who are not harvestable, will not be remaining physical post-2012. The two statements are logically equivalent.

One does not ascend from 3D to 4D during an incarnation, the bodies are not compatible. Hence, death is necessary.

Right. There are two different bodies. But some wanderers may already have bodies in other densities. There is no cosmic law which says we may only check out one body at a time.

That's my point. 3D are 4D are discrete densities of experience.

Right. Were we arguing about that?

Ironically that's how I feel my friend! :¬)

Yes, as 2012 is nothing but a marker indicating that the process of the harvest is now available to humanity upon death. Something that hasn't been available for the last 25,000 years.

People will die by third density necessities (Ra's words), and will then walk the steps of light, because the anomaly of harvest is upon us in time/space.

People are getting distracted by the 2012 date itself and accompanying prophecies (none I might add, from the Ra Material) of a spontaneous ascension into 4D, either instantly or gradually.

Rather than putting one's efforts into that, it would be wise to spend each day finding love in the moment. That's the real reason we're here.

Got it. Thanks for sharing.

Just for fun - what if one wanted to take the farthest route possible - around the globe? I think you'll find that NYC to LA via heading North is entirely possible :¬)

If they wanted to take the long way, they would need to head east instead of west. Heading north from NYC, one would never reach LA.

[Namaste]

I mostly agree with the crux of your point. But I don't see it as a counterpoint to what I previously said. I didn't say anything about "ascension" happening within a space/time incarnation. In fact, I don't think I ever said such a thing at any time in this forum. Somehow this mischaracterization of my views keeps following me around here, and I do not fully understand how this came about, or why it continues.

I've never implied as such, I've been responding to your queries about my own understandings from the start of our discussion.

All I -ever- said to this particular point was that I see a possibility that it might be possible for a wanderer to live a simultaneous existence in 3D and 4D, and be able to pass their consciousness between worlds much as one does when passing from the waking to the dream state.

Anything is possible :¬)

What I was originally commenting on in this particular thread is my feeling that all humans remaining physical post-2012 will indeed be harvestable. As you said, they will be harvested upon death and taken to the 4D earth sphere.

An equal, but opposite, way to say this is that all humans who are not harvestable, will not be remaining physical post-2012. The two statements are logically equivalent.

This is where we differ.

According to Ra, being 51% STO takes the same 'effort' as being 95% STS. This would mean, using your logic, that the vast majority of the planet would be harvested. It was hinted as being the opposite.

I believe this incarnation, including post 2012, is valid for all types of experience, STS, STO and those undecided. It's only upon death that we review and relocate as necessary.

I'm not saying I'm right, rather, it's my own understanding :¬)

Right. There are two different bodies. But some wanderers may already have bodies in other densities. There is no cosmic law which says we may only check out one body at a time.

Agree entirely on this one. In fact, I think it's very - very - likely this is the case :¬)

(Even without referring to the eternal now!)

[Tenet Nosce]

I've never implied as such, I've been responding to your queries about my own understandings from the start of our discussion.

I dunno. We seem equally confused. I think we probably both misinterpreted each other somewhere.

What I was originally commenting on in this particular thread is my feeling that all humans remaining physical post-2012 will indeed be harvestable. As you said, they will be harvested upon death and taken to the 4D earth sphere.

An equal, but opposite, way to say this is that all humans who are not harvestable, will not be remaining physical post-2012. The two statements are logically equivalent.

This is where we differ.

OK.

According to Ra, being 51% STO takes the same 'effort' as being 95% STS.

Yes, I can see that they did indeed say that it was "as difficult". I observe Session 17 to be the source of a great many of differing opinions on, and interpretations of, the material. I wonder why that is??

This would mean, using your logic, that the vast majority of the planet would be harvested. It was hinted as being the opposite.

Using my logic, those who are not harvestable will not remain physical post 2012. Which is the same as saying: All those who are physical post-2012 are harvestable. No more no less.

But as a point of further speculation, I would note forecasts and prognostications of percentages of harvestable entities made, or implied, by Ra thirty years ago bear little weight here in this moment. There may have been positive developments which Ra did not foresee.

According to my understanding, in 1981 the earth was still slated for a pole shift and near annihilation of the human race in 1998.

I believe this incarnation, including post 2012, is valid for all types of experience, STS, STO and those undecided.

Well, my friend, I suppose you and I can revisit this topic in about a year's time. May we both find ourselves in joyful abundance at that nexus.

Right. There are two different bodies. But some wanderers may already have bodies in other densities. There is no cosmic law which says we may only check out one body at a time.

Agree entirely on this one. In fact, I think it's very - very - likely this is the case :¬)

Well then, maybe we can get together in a different density where the veil is not so thick and sort some of these more subtle points out, and then get back to ourselves here in this density with an update!

(Even without referring to the eternal now!)

Oh, right, we are already doing that now.

[AnthroHeart]

Using my logic, those who are not harvestable will not remain physical post 2012. Which is the same as saying: All those who are physical post-2012 are harvestable. No more no less.

Interesting observation. This might explain why I seem to keep getting thoughts of dying (symbolizes death of the old world). Maybe to help reinforce in me my purpose for sticking through it. I intend to stay here through 2012. Times had gotten a bit more difficult. I think we're all feeling increases in catalyst. For me mental, for my mom physical.

[Tenet Nosce]

Using my logic, those who are not harvestable will not remain physical post 2012. Which is the same as saying: All those who are physical post-2012 are harvestable. No more no less.

Interesting observation. This might explain why I seem to keep getting thoughts of dying (symbolizes death of the old world). Maybe to help reinforce in me my purpose for sticking through it. I intend to stay here through 2012. Times had gotten a bit more difficult. I think we're all feeling increases in catalyst. For me mental, for my mom physical.

I think there are many different levels and angles from which to view these types of phenomena. Sometimes I wonder if it just comes down to the repressed fears of those who are in power getting "pushed" on people as thoughts of catastrophe. In turn, most people sort of ignore those feelings, cover them up with whipped cream and sprinkles, or flat out lie about having them in the first place. Thus does denial turn to deceit.

As for the rest of people which have a modicum of empathy and connectedness to other-selves, this twice-repressed fear gets "picked up" by sensitive types and internalized. Thus, taking the weight of the world upon one's shoulders.

I get the feeling we are indeed moving through some sort of programmed sequence of archetypal experiences, and no they cannot all be characterized as "pleasant". If everybody were willing to "share the burden" and take personal responsibility for themselves, there wouldn't be those of us having to shoulder an additional load. But such is life. Apparently, we signed up for this. :-/

[Tenet Nosce]

From the Aaron/Q'uo Dialogues, on the topic of "harvest".

Aaron: I want to speak to this term "harvest" and what it means. This is a word that is often used. Perhaps you flinch at the term and your energy quails because the word implies force to you, in that someone goes out into a field and harvests the grain and fruit to take it for its own, as if the grain or fruit were being used or manipulated. Think of the small energy than moved into that stalk of wheat and into that apple or bean. When energy moves into that which is used on this plane as food for others, its greatest will, at whatever level it is conscious, is to learn how to offer its energy to others in becoming part of the greatness that is universal consciousness. When you pick and apple from a tree and express gratitude for the nourishment and sweetness of that fruit, it honors the apple's greatest joy, which is to serve. Its free will is not being violated by being plucked to be eaten. If it did not want to be eaten it would have invented blemishes of one sort or another that would make it unappealing. The richer it appears and the more vibrant its energy fiels, the more it wishes to offer itself and to make itself attractive.

Just so, the evolving human that has become ready to move beyond this density becomes vibrant in its desire to be a tool of the Divine. It becomes radiant in its selflessness. Its greatest wish is to be of service and, as my brother/sister Q'uo just said, to allow its will to be offered to the greater will of the Infinite, as in saying, "Not my will, but thine be done; not for my glory, but for thine. It only comes through me. I am simply a channel."

Think you of this. Barbara, here, is a channel. She channels this energy that you have come to know as Aaron. Do you not think that I am also a channel? What I offer you does not originate with me. I offer you divine wisdom and tell you nothing that you do no t already know in the depths of your own divine wisdom. I am a channel. I am empty. When you come to what Q'uo has referred to as the harvest, it is not that your being is snatched up with no accord to your own will, but that the greatest gift that you can offer is to allow your energy and light to evolve to the point that you are ready to move beyond the limits that you have previously believed. From thence you may be harvested into the next step of your evolution.

It may help you to think of it with this image. WIthin each being is an intense light, unlimited in its power. Around each being are many layers of shielding, like and onion. Place that intense light in the center of the onion With each giving up of fear and with each bit of clarity of the truth of that inner light, layers of the so-called onion fall away. You become translucent. At a certain point you emit so much light that you are ready for the so-called harvest. You are ready to move into another plane where further layers may fall away. With higher densities, more and more layers of shielding and separation fall away until finally that brilliant and intense inner core is exposed and offered into the service of the Infinite, of God.

What is this harvest about on the earth plane? I spoke yesterday of the move of Earth from third to fourth density. In fourth density you are part of an energy group. You are not forced into that and not fixed in your placement, but desirous of that deepening contact. In a sense, the connection between you this weekend is rehearsal for fourth density. When you let your barriers down and allow yourself to be both more telepathic with each other and very open in your energy fields, with thinned shielding, you are practicing for fourth-density experience. The illusions of separation will fall away.

Fourth-density Earth may appear not much different in some outward aspects. There will be seas and mountains and forests. Yet, there will be a new understanding of the deepest interconnection of all that is, both upon the Earth and outward from the Earth. You will be co-creators with the soil in the creation of your crops. If you choose to eat solid food rather than to dwell simply on the light and energy, that which you eat will be thanked graciously. And as Q'uo thanked you for the opportunity you give him to serve, your food will thank you for its opportunity to serve by nourishing your body. You will understand your codependence on others in a positive sense. You will not be ashamed of that which arises in you. Since there will be no shame over the arisings of the emotional body nor any need to fling those emotions on others, you will deeply share your joys and sorrows, much as fourth-density energy does not.

Fourth-density energy now is fully telepathic within its group. The learning of compassion is so profound because you fully experience the unshielded emotions of another, as its pains, its sorrows, and its joys. You no longer are limited to learning from your own experience but become able to learn from everyone's experience. And because you no longer guard your own experience out of shame, you offer it to others for a source for their learning. This is what Earth is in the process of becoming.

People as me, "Is this really going to happen? What about the arising negativity I see on the earth plane?" My dear ones, if you fear and hate that negativity, you simply add to to it and it will become the source of your own stagnation. This process is much in the ways a child learns lessons in school and asks, "Am I ready to go on?" If he or she does not study for an examination and does not pass the test, he may not go on. The focus is not on progression but on understanding. The work must be reviewed until it is understood. There is no time pressure. If you continue to return fear to fear and hatred to hatred, you have not understood and the work will be repeated until it is understood. The Earth will continue to offer you catalyst. When enough of you understand the lessons and can return kindness and love to fear by allowing fear to become a catalyst for compassion rather than hate, then you will be ready to shed the illusion and move into fourth density.

Many of you will continue on to fourth-density Earth. Others will move back to nonmaterial planes from which you came and find whatever other ways you may choose to serve and to learn. The radiant fruit that you have become will find its next place int he universe, which is the next place to serve, to grow, and to love, I would like here to pass the microphone back to Q'uo. That is all.

[irpsit]

I ressonate with you Saggitarius, and I think you are on the right track when you say "we hope to show who we are in 2012".

When I was in my early 20s I struggled with that. Now being 30 (actually today), I am almost free to not having to behave according to others. But after realizing this, there is a whole lot of learning ahead!

The harvest is just the beginning I feel. I feel this period will bump a selection of us up to embrace the 4d energy, the large majority will take longer but this is the reason for the select fews incarnation and there early awakening.

By select few I mean us as in the few who have a greater understanding. 2012 will be the year I feel and hope we can show ourselves for who we truly are.

This is all just conjecture and attempts at translating the catalysts we are receiving but the fact that I have learnt more in past 3 months then I have in 19 years tells me thing are speeding up. It seams we are all experiencing these revelations so the only question remains is to what end.

One thing I do know is 2012 will change me forever.

[Aaron]

I ressonate with you Saggitarius, and I think you are on the right track when you say "we hope to show who we are in 2012".

When I was in my early 20s I struggled with that. Now being 30 (actually today), I am almost free to not having to behave according to others. But after realizing this, there is a whole lot of learning ahead!

The harvest is just the beginning I feel. I feel this period will bump a selection of us up to embrace the 4d energy, the large majority will take longer but this is the reason for the select fews incarnation and there early awakening.

By select few I mean us as in the few who have a greater understanding. 2012 will be the year I feel and hope we can show ourselves for who we truly are.

This is all just conjecture and attempts at translating the catalysts we are receiving but the fact that I have learnt more in past 3 months then I have in 19 years tells me thing are speeding up. It seams we are all experiencing these revelations so the only question remains is to what end.

One thing I do know is 2012 will change me forever.

Happy birthday, irpsit!!!