Are you going to take the vaccine?

[Louisabell]

@Aqua - That video link is unavailable for me.

[unity100]

vaccine.

You seem not to know any elder person who lived when polio vaccine was not available and got himself damaged by polio, leading to walking with a limp with an aching leg for 60-70 years of his life, or other some other lifetime torment.

This situation is the same. Hopefully you wont regret it and you wont make anyone catch the virus and hurt or even kill them in that manner.

And the only lies which were told were told in mainly Anglosphere, where governments and establishments wanted to protect stock market over people's lives, going to the extent of saying that pandemic did not exist.

Rest of the world took their measures as much as and as heavily as they could and they avoided the gigantic loss of life which we see in places like US.

[Agua]

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[Patrick]

...at 55:00 it is about the irreversibility of the vaccination effects...

This comes back to my comment in this post.

What about those not "in the know" ?

They basically say that if you take the vaccine... you die and better luck in your next incarnation.

But at least there is no implications of irreversibility of spiritual effects. You're just going to end this incarnation by taking the vaccine.

My heart really constricted watching that video.  Which means it's really not for me.  Felt very fear based and judgmental.  But that's just me.

I strongly believe that vaccine should never be mandatory, even if there is an argument that not getting vaccinated can affect others.  It's the same thing with obesity, the related health issues can affect other people's money (if within universal healthcare).  Yet I would never support any mandatory restrictions on the amount of food people have the right to ingest.

[Diana]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and this is a discussion board, so that's why we are here. The whole COVID situation is very divisive. Many people seem to think "the other side" of the vaccination issue is deluded. This reminds me of politics here in the US, where Republicans think Democrats are idiots/wrong and vice versa. One might say I am being cavalier in that analogy, but recall that governments send hundreds of thousands of people to war to maim and kill other people (not to mention the wildlife and environment in the wake of it).

I personally don't like the inference in this thread that in order to be STO one must take the vaccine. This kind of thinking reminds me of the Christian Jesus, who died for others' sins. If I were to believe that, I would argue that Jesus had no right to do that, to take away catalyst from others and even more, take away their responsibility and accountability.

Service to others is not so simple as everything you do is for others. This leads to martyrdom, and as Ra pointed out, this is not a state that is in balance. It seems to me that extremity either way on this issue might be examined in the light of balance and free will. I will repost Ra's words on a contagion:

34.7 ▶ Questioner: Do what we call contagious diseases play any part in this process with respect to the unmanifested self?


Ra: I am Ra. These so-called contagious diseases are those entities of second density which offer an opportunity for this type of catalyst. If this catalyst is unneeded, then these second-density creatures, as you would call them, do not have an effect. In each of these generalizations you may please note that there are anomalies so that we cannot speak to every circumstance but only to the general run or way of things as you experience them.

[Agua]

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[Agua]

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[unity100]

It seems a lot of people dont know that vaccination is mandatory in almost entire world, including many places which are shown as 'rebellious' examples against mandatory vaccination, like Hungary - which has mandatory vaccinations for children like the rest of European countries.

The matter of the truth is that this anti-vaccine rhetoric stems from US, and from alt-right and conspiracy circles. It emanated in such forums like a decade and a half ago. And it spread around to those who identify with such right wing talking points (classifies as far right in most of Europe), and is being presented in Anglosphere discourse as a legitimate, 'mainstream' talking point.

Currently, majority of countries seem to be not talking about mandatory vaccination because vaccines are scarce, and mandating it would make the supply more difficult. Which means the way to manage is to not make it mandatory but make up for the contagion rate by effecting restrictions on movement and gatherings, so that vaccinating front line health and other sector workers could be effective in stymieing contagions.

[zedro]

I personally don't like the inference ... that in order to be STO one must.....

Thank you! In your quote I edited out the thread specific attributes because this is the most worrying trap people can fall into in general and could be seen as an active infringement. One can present their philosophical viewpoint without adding judgement, the latter which may be inherently manipulative.

[confusedseeker]

The matter of the truth is that this anti-vaccine rhetoric stems from US, and from alt-right and conspiracy circles. I

This is CIA language. You will not infringe on our free will. You can take the vaccine, support big pharma and our corrupt authoritarian gov't as much as you want. But throwing around CIA language isn't helping anyone. I know plenty of people on the "left" who are against vaccinations as well. Do you think rich elites force their kids to be vaccinated? Have you researched what vaccinations have done in Africa (it's both good and bad).

[zedro]

It seems a lot of people dont know that vaccination is mandatory...

I.e. a massive infringement on free will, and specifically against the Nuremberg Code***. Just thought I'd point that out.


*** (subject to interpretation, mainstream "authoratative sources" will of course disagree with the insinuation as it implies crimes against humanity)

[Patrick]

...
As for the ones „that dont know“.
As far as I understood, those made the choice quite some time ago to stay in the old paradigm. The accepting of the vaccine would be the physical ma ifestation of that choice.
...

This reminds me a lot of the whole divergence of the timelines in 2012.  I guess all reading this chose the "old paradigm" at the time because we are all still here and did not ascend in 2012.

...
And I doubt anyone wouöd take the baccine if its not out of fear.
...

I have zero fear for myself or even my close ones.  I already had Covid.  I am going to take it just to set a good example for those around me.



I am not trying to convince anyone.  I am just sharing how I see it from my point of view.

So here goes.  If you are the Elites and created Covid to reduce the population of the Earth a bit, you do not want people to start taking vaccines so fast.  You want the virus to have more time to act.  So you are going to use all the successful infiltration that was done within the conspiracy circles and hijack the "thinking" to limit the adoption of a cure.

[confusedseeker]

So here goes.  If you are the Elites and created Covid to reduce the population of the Earth a bit, you do not want people to start taking vaccines so fast.  You want the virus to have more time to act.  So you are going to use all the successful infiltration that was done within the conspiracy circles and hijack the "thinking" to limit the adoption of a cure.

I think you should research Operation Warp Speed and research WHO created the vaccine. If you choose to take big pharma's magic "cure", good luck to you and I wish you the best. Just DO NOT be pro mandatory vaccination and all is good with me.

[Bosphorus1982]

I will not. The vaccines are hugely detrimental for one's health. According to the book Conversations with God 2, they make someone more susceptible to diseases. Also, as there are microchips in Pfizer's vaccines, it seems best is not to get vaccinated

[Patrick]

I think you should research Operation Warp Speed and research WHO created the vaccine.  If you choose to take big pharma's magic "cure", good luck to you and I wish you the best.  Just DO NOT be pro mandatory vaccination and all is good with me.

Yes I do try to keep up to date.  But mostly, I just cannot understand how resonance can be gotten from such.  It's just not in the cards for me it seems.

[unity100]

The matter of the truth is that this anti-vaccine rhetoric stems from US, and from alt-right and conspiracy circles. I

This is CIA language.

Nonsensical proposition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy#Japan

Vaccination at large is mandatory for adults in numerous civilized countries, and mandatory in a larger part of the world for children for schooling and welfare or other government related programs.

That's the reason why you dont know a reality called 'polio' or 'measles'. But thanks to this anti-vaccine nonsense, Americans brought measles back.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc...or/592756/

You can take the vaccine, support big pharma and our corrupt authoritarian gov't as much as you want.

I dont know what your government is, but what i know is CIA doesnt make laws where i am, so that doesnt even make sense.

You will not infringe on our free will.

And you will not infect me or my loved ones with new strains of the virus you cook in your body due to your vaccine evasion.

If your free will involves infecting other people against their will by not taking appropriate survival measures, yeah, the society eventually will either 'infringe' on your 'free will', or just kick you out of it.

The absurd contradiction in between criticizing someone for 'infringing' on one's free will and ordering him to not do it is considerable, by the way.

Do you think rich elites force their kids to be vaccinated?

Yeah. Those very rich elites were the first ones to get vaccinated when vaccines were scarce, creating a lot of public outrage. Rich football stars, major politicians, actual aristocrats, billionaires, all rushed to get vaccinated the moment any vaccine-like thing was available. Where i am, it was criticized on the net and tv for months.

Have you researched what vaccinations have done in Africa (it's both good and bad).

Vaccines are always good and bad. They are not miracle cures. Like any other medicine. There is a percentage of reaction rate from all vaccines, and yeah, a smaller risk of heavy repercussions and an even smaller risk of death. That is how substances work. You cant concoct a substance which will magically do what you want when you put in anyone's body without causing effects in at least some of them.

The whole point of vaccines is using a very weak, watered down version of a disease to help someone's body gain immunity to the virus. The virus, otherwise, is still that virus, and any material contained in a vaccine can cause side effects or reactions in a given percentage of people.

People have allergies to all kinds of things ranging from peanuts to wool. Thinking that magical medicines which do not cause any reaction in anyone would be absurd.

The whole point is reducing the percentage of any reaction, reducing the percentage of any serious result, and reducing the chance of any deaths even further.

Its a matter comparison in between the chance of dying from or getting damaged by the disease and an incomparably smaller chance of getting affected by the vaccine.

I.e. a massive infringement on free will, and specifically against the Nuremberg Code***. Just thought I'd point that out.

Same with husing seatbelts. Same with smoking bans in airplanes. Same with an immensely large number of 'free will infringements' which allow organized society to happen.

*** (subject to interpretation, mainstream "authoratative sources" will of course disagree with the insinuation as it implies crimes against humanity)

Relatives of people who died from new variants of covid that originated from countries that flunked the covid response or countries with a large number of anti-vaccine population thanks to those people creating a breeding ground for the virus, would disagree.

I think you should research Operation Warp Speed and research WHO created the vaccine.

That is false. 'Operation Warp Speed', ie, the method of deregulating the vaccine's development by ramming the vaccine through the safety regulations was American government's project done in US.

It has nothing to do with WHO, who doesnt produce any vaccines.

Vaccines of the rest of the world were produced through the usual procedure which vaccines have been always produced by going through the same checks which all vaccines go through. That's why it took so long to produce the vaccines. And not surprisingly, almost every different country's vaccine took the same amount of time - from China's to Eu's. That's because biomedical technology only allows that much speed.

Incidentally the much lauded American 'Pfizer' vaccine is not American, it was created by a German company called BioNtech that was founded by two recent Turkish immigrants to Germany. Pfizer just got the licenses for manufacturing and distributing it.

So, even trying to ram a vaccine through the regulatory measures did not allow US to put forth a vaccine before rest of the world, in an amazing twist of fate.

[unity100]

I have zero fear for myself or even my close ones.  I already had Covid.  I am going to take it just to set a good example for those around me.

Considering how two people - one Spaniard in Spain and a Chinese in China - were confirmed to catch covid again after having contracted it recovered ~a year earlier, i very much think that immunity may not be permanent. Or, new strains which are breeding pretty fast invalidate existing vaccines.

Which makes vaccination all the more important to prevent breeding of new virus variants. UK created two more lethal and contagious variants already, and Brazil one, as far as i know. That is alongside all the variants which are not as lethal or contagious - they seem to be happening, but they are not being written about because the ones which are more lethal or contagious are more important.

So here goes.  If you are the Elites and created Covid to reduce the population of the Earth a bit, you do not want people to start taking vaccines so fast.  You want the virus to have more time to act.  So you are going to use all the successful infiltration that was done within the conspiracy circles and hijack the "thinking" to limit the adoption of a cure.

Indeed. That contradiction invalidates the entire alt-right conspiracy theory around vaccines - 'the elites created the virus to kill them', which was succeeding spectacularly in that job, but somehow 'the elites want people to take the vaccine to kill them', despite it reduces the rate which people die from covid.

Just fear. Paranoid schizophrenia kind, for it always has the theme of 'there being those who are out to get us'. Whatever happens, it is a case of 'someone trying to get them' - ie, virus outbreak - 'They are trying to get us'. Vaccine against the virus - 'They are trying to get us again'.

[Spaced]

I see no reason not to take the vaccine and many reasons to do so, so yes, I will get vaccinated at the earliest opportunity. I would like for this virus to reach manageable levels so I can see my family again 

[Glow]

The matter of the truth is that this anti-vaccine rhetoric stems from US, and from alt-right and conspiracy circles. I

This is CIA language. You will not infringe on our free will. You can take the vaccine, support big pharma and our corrupt authoritarian gov't as much as you want. But throwing around CIA language isn't helping anyone. I know plenty of people on the "left" who are against vaccinations as well. Do you think rich elites force their kids to be vaccinated? Have you researched what vaccinations have done in Africa (it's both good and bad).

The CIA is an America organization. People outside the USA using the same or similar verb-age does not at all mean they are using CIA language. Look at any global(non USA) website/news organization discussing similar matters and they use the same key words. It’s because we share an understanding of what those key words mean.

It is pretty obvious from outside the US that a huge propaganda machine works within your media outlets. Also to counter your last line.

It has been visible where I am and globally that rich are actually jumping protocols to get vaccinated. Seems much more likely this anti science propaganda is being pushed within your country so demand will be lower and population with money will have faster access to said vaccines.

[unity100]

It has been visible where I am and globally that rich are actually jumping protocols to get vaccinated. Seems much more likely this anti science propaganda is being pushed within your country so demand will be lower and population with money will have faster access to said vaccines.

Yep. And those rich in question are those who were caught in the act and were talked about by internet and media. The smarter rich seems to have acquired the vaccine more silently through private means. Going to other countries and buying it as opposed to foolishly jumping the queue to the front in a public vaccination program. Of course you'll get caught if you do it like that. But then again, some just dont care if they are caught.

...

Worst of this situation is that the anti-science propaganda in US does not have any specific related aim. It is just made to rail up right wing people as a tool to pander to votes in a general manner. Compared to propaganda against climate change, for example - that had a specific aim of preventing the people from moving to renewable energy sources to protect oil industry profits. It had a specific reason.

This one doesnt. The industrial and political segments behind this propaganda are just rolling with it to pump up general anti-science bigotry to use it for power.

[Patrick]

...
As for the ones „that dont know“.
As far as I understood, those made the choice quite some time ago to stay in the old paradigm. The accepting of the vaccine would be the physical ma ifestation of that choice.
...

This reminds me a lot of the whole divergence of the timelines in 2012.  I guess all reading this chose the "old paradigm" at the time because we are all still here and did not ascend in 2012.

I just understood what was bothering me the most in the video.  It's that they basically cultivate an aura of Elitism.  A kind of "them vs us" attitude and very finite in their statements.  It does not sound like the kind of gentle spiritual advice I am used to seeing from sources I normally let myself be influenced by.

[Glow]

...
As for the ones „that dont know“.
As far as I understood, those made the choice quite some time ago to stay in the old paradigm. The accepting of the vaccine would be the physical ma ifestation of that choice.
...

This reminds me a lot of the whole divergence of the timelines in 2012.  I guess all reading this chose the "old paradigm" at the time because we are all still here and did not ascend in 2012.

I just understood what was bothering me the most in the video.  It's that they basically cultivate an aura of Elitism.  A kind of "them vs us" attitude and very finite in their statements.  It does not sound like the kind of gentle spiritual advice I am used to seeing from sources I normally let myself be influenced by.

I was thinking similarly.

If one group is choosing to leave a paradigm towards 4D it seems believing “the elite are trying to damage us with a vaccine” feels more like the old paradigm being chosen.

The new 4D paradigm “we have a virus effecting the global population and we will work together to protect everyone even buying vaccines for countries that can’t afford them”. To become a SMC we have to become 1 group. This and climate change is certainly one way to build a collective will to work together.

The old way being infinite separations of us vs them. Oppressed and oppressors, that’s 3D.

[unity100]

The new 4D paradigm “we have a virus effecting the global population and we will work together to protect everyone even buying vaccines for countries that can’t afford them”. To become a SMC we have to become 1 group. This and climate change is certainly one way to build a collective will to work together.

Indeed. Being 'we' instead of 'me'.

Thinking about 'other people' before thinking about 'my free will'.

[zedro]

I.e. a massive infringement on free will, and specifically against the Nuremberg Code***. Just thought I'd point that out.

Same with husing seatbelts. Same with smoking bans in airplanes. Same with an immensely large number of 'free will infringements' which allow organized society to happen.

What an absurd comparison, you completely disregard or are unaware of the differences. It's not worth any further energy.

[confusedseeker]

unity100, just to get this straight, are you for MANDATORY vaccinations? I just want to be clear. I don't think you have any idea what that entails, but I would just like to know.

[confusedseeker]

And you will not infect me or my loved ones with new strains of the virus you cook in your body due to your vaccine evasion.

SO TAKE THE VACCINE. Take them all. But you DO NOT force other people to take them, period. You can quote your corporate media drones as much as you want (the ATLANTIC, lol), but you CANNOT force people to inject things into their body. CLEAR impingement of free will, objectively.

[confusedseeker]

I.e. a massive infringement on free will, and specifically against the Nuremberg Code***. Just thought I'd point that out.

Same with husing seatbelts. Same with smoking bans in airplanes. Same with an immensely large number of 'free will infringements' which allow organized society to happen.

What an absurd comparison, you completely disregard or are unaware of the differences. It's not worth any further energy.

It's basic logic that he's failing to grasp here, it's really absurd. Luckily, the poll results are quite refreshing ,the Law of One message is quite clear about things such as this....as are MANY other religions for that matter.

[Diana]

I would like to add one point to this conversation that will likely be unpopular. Vaccines, including COVID vaccine (as far as I have read) are tested on animals.

I know most people care more about people than they do animals. I don't. I care about all life forms. I don't imagine STO means service only to humans. I do not think it is fair for humans to test their products on animals causing untold pain and suffering. They should test products on themselves and use computer models.

This is one reason why I don't support vaccines (or any pharmaceuticals that use these methods, though I am not judging anyone who does). The other is that I trust my immune system. I also trust in what Ra said about second-density entities offering catalyst, and that catalyst not causing harm if it's not needed (for anyone). 

That said, if there was a vaccine not tested on animals, I would look at that as a possibility if I thought it would actually help the world by taking it. I am not at this time convinced it would. 

[Glow]

You might like this article Diana.

It’s from the Toronto(Canada) Star.

COVID could spell the end of animal testing as drug makers turn to human organs on microchips

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thestar....sting.html

“ The virulence and highly contagious nature of COVID-19 is demanding a new model of research that bypasses animals, instead using human-biology-based testing. A growing number of scientists suggest that accelerated COVID-19 research is exposing animal modelling for what many have long claimed it to be: a scientific anachronism.

Equally problematic, if not even more eyebrow raising: 95 per cent of new drugs that enter clinical trials don’t make it to the market, according to the National Center for Advancing Translational Sciences, at the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH). In other words, the vast majority of new drugs fail once they move into human studies, despite appearing safe and effective in experiments with animals.”

[confusedseeker]

I would like to add one point to this conversation that will likely be unpopular. Vaccines, including COVID vaccine (as far as I have read) are tested on animals.

I know most people care more about people than they do animals. I don't. I care about all life forms. I don't imagine STO means service only to humans. I do not think it is fair for humans to test their products on animals causing untold pain and suffering. They should test products on themselves and use computer models.

This is one reason why I don't support vaccines (or any pharmaceuticals that use these methods, though I am not judging anyone who does). The other is that I trust my immune system. I also trust in what Ra said about second-density entities offering catalyst, and that catalyst not causing harm if it's not needed (for anyone). 

That said, if there was a vaccine not tested on animals, I would look at that as a possibility if I thought it would actually help the world by taking it. I am not at this time convinced it would. 

Good point. I'd also like to point out that 80-90% of Covid hospitalizations are in people who are Vitamin D deficient, so you might as well supplement that along with Vit C and Zinc. If you feel symptoms, look into Ivermectin. Our immune systems are amazing.