Trump rally in Tulsa causing an earthquake and demonstrating a case study

[Dtris]

The comic isn't my work, just something I found. Also, negative attention is still attention. The way I saw the 2106 election process go, all the negative attention the mainstream media gave Trump actually helped him get elected and solidified his image as an outsider...which he isn't. I've listed many things he's said and done that are straight up authoritarian and sociopathic, and you fanboys haven't addressed any of those directly, still spewing this bullshit that he's an ok person and an outsider. He's a buttpuppet for the fossil fuel industry, he supports Wall Street instead of the working class, he thinks "taking out their families" is the answer to terrorism, he pardons a sociopathic war criminal who did exactly that, and the list goes on and on and on yet you fanboys will not address the FACTS. Instead, you circumvent the facts with fancy and long winded debates and circular logic. Well argued bullshit is still bullshit.

The negative attention did help him get elected. However you assume that he has an image of an outsider and is not an outsider. He is not an outsider to the circles of influence that he had to play in to run his business. He is an outsider to politics. That is why so many republicans hate him. That is why the republicans did not keep any of their campaign promises in 2016, which resulted in them happily losing the house in 2018. Just because I have a different opinion to yours does not mean that I do not know what you are talking about. I just disagree with your conclusion.

So sense you seem to want someone to respond to your earlier list I will play along, why not.

1.) Stated the answer to fighting terrorism is to "take out their families"
2.) Supports and respects authoritarian dictators who have atrocious human rights records, and doesn't give two shits about human rights or freedoms
3.) Has many toxic supporters, for instance people with signs such as "save the economy, sacrifice the weak", people who identify as "incels", and other demographics that are utter trash
4.) believed in the Vietnam war, but dodged the draft because he was too good to fight it himself
5.) has people tear gassed by thugs with no real uniforms(probably mercs) to go to hold a bible at some church for a photo opp
6.) has not condemned/takes advice from Henry Kissinger
7.) Was buddy buddy with the Clintons and Epstein
8.) Is a wall street and fossil fuel industry buttpuppet
9.) is a narcissist if not a full blown sociopath
10.) does not espouse democratic or republican principles, but rather authoritarian and imperialistic ones
11.) is a compulsive liar who talks out his ass all the time
12.) is not actually an "outsider"

1.) I completely disagree with his idea. I also realize the logic behind it, even if I disagree. This type of thinking is not unusual for people and there are many who see what ISIS was doing as taking advantage of our rules of engagement, which they were. This would be an option for demoralizing the enemy but I don't think it is moral or effective in the long term.

"I would do my best, absolute best — I mean, one of the problems we have or one of the reasons we're so ineffective, you know, they're trying to, they're using them as shields. It's a horrible thing," the real estate tycoon said.

"But we're fighting a very politically correct war. And the other thing is with the terrorists, you have to take out their families," Trump added.

"When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. But they say they don't care about their lives. You have to take out their families."

2.) There is too many conflicting stories on this claim. Trump treats leaders of other countries with respect and he flatters them. Then he calls them out in press conferences here, usually alternating a compliment with criticism. This is a tactic to get people to listen to you without becoming defensive. I believe this is part of his strategy. He recently removed some of the unique protections Hong Kong had on trade since the China Security Bill all the protest was about has passed. He also just passed a bill condemning the Uygher camps. He has also been tough enough on China to renegotiate our trade deals. I wish he would be tougher when it comes to the Uygher camps and Hong Kong personally.

3.) Someone having crazy supporters does not mean much. Crazy people come in in all stripes and the two party system doesn't give them much choice. Calling demographics "utter trash" is not very loving toward your other selves.

4.) https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archiv...al/579265/Trump's Draft Deferement isn't Unusual-The Atlantic
I don't agree with what he did but as I have said before about other topics, I try not to judge a person who was making a decision in a very different time and place.

5.) I assume you are talking about having the protestors cleared from Lafayette square. The decision was made by Attorney General William Barr and the Secret Service. The images show riot police ousting the protestors. A person who was on the scene called into a radio program I was listening to and reported that the police attempted to get the crowd to move away before resorting to pepper spray and other means after the crowd refused. Trump should have just waited until the next morning or something, but after the secret service removed Trump from the white house over security concerns and Trump was widely ridiculed in the media he probably felt like he had to make a display of strength. Very yellow ray thinking but that is where people are.

6.) It appears Trump does know Kissinger and has had him to the White House. There is this I found as well. https://www.factcheck.org/2019/04/what-k...out-trump/
I don't really recall many conspiracy theories about Kissinger or know much about him. I did find this article. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/...acy-213237 The following quote appears relevant to your point.

Was he a war criminal? I am afraid that by the standards some of his critics have applied to Kissinger numerous post-1945 U.S. statesmen could be accused of crimes against humanity (and that applies perhaps to the vast majority of modern great powers’ leaders).

So I have no real opinion about his relationship with Kissinger.

7.) Trump explained his buddy relationship with the Clintons as maintaining a good relationship to do business. May or may not be true but he was also a registered democrat for a long time. Even my father who is a republican voted for Clinton in 1996. Clinton then would not even be able to run in the current climate. As for Epstein, it is well known they knew each other. Guiffre who was one of Epsteins girls was asked about Trump and said that he did not have sex with any of the girls while she was "working" there. She had no problem naming other high profile individuals. He is also on the flight logs of the Lolita Express, which so are many many people, including Oprah. That by itself does not mean much. This link to a book says Trump helped start the investigation into Epstein, although for self serving reasons. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...n-him.html I have also read other accounts that during the initial investigation Trump offered to cooperate with police in the investigation. Which would be unlikely if he would be caught up in it. I think if they could have gotten Trump with this Epstein would have been given an even better deal than the first time and be sitting on a beach somewhere.

8.)This is an opinion. You are free to have it. I agree with America being energy independent, and it would be even better if they would unclassify the real energy tech they have. The regulations cut by Trump are a good thing IMO. They are more burdensome to small businesses and entrepreneurs than to large corporations. If they were actually harmful to the large corps then they would not have existed.

9.) This has been said about every president since I have been alive. I think anyone who volunteers for that position has to have a bit of narcissism in their personality.

10.) You will have to give some examples here if you want a response. This is again an opinion.

11.) You will have to be more specific if you want to discuss this. I agree he talks off the cuff a lot, and about things he should probably shut up about before he looks into more. Some find that part of the appeal though. He isn't afraid to say, "This is what I think, but I don't know much about it." I don't think he lies more than other politicians, and seems like it is less to me.

12.) This was addressed first.

I hadn't previously heard about Trump pardoning War Criminals. I have looked into it briefly and so far it looks like it is pretty divisive as most issues around him are. My initial thought was they he should not have pardoned at least 1 of the individuals but that was the only case presented with much detail in what I read. I would need to do more research to draw an opinion on all three individuals.

[Dtris]

Also, I'd like to add one more thing. The idea that one must choose between liberty and compassion as a guiding principle, or that these ideas are mutually exclusive, is a false paradigm. I choose both liberty and compassion as guiding principles, in the face of a president that stands for NEITHER.

I never said that you had to choose either. That is your assumption. My point was that those guided by only or primarily compassion will be easily lead by those seeking to manipulate that impulse. I also never said those were the only choices. Anything you choose can be a guiding principle. Most people have one even if they don't realize it. What is more important is to have a consistent world view IMO. Which is very difficult without some principle which is used as a framework, or group of principles.

[StormShadow]

Also, I'd like to add one more thing. The idea that one must choose between liberty and compassion as a guiding principle, or that these ideas are mutually exclusive, is a false paradigm. I choose both liberty and compassion as guiding principles, in the face of a president that stands for NEITHER.

I never said that you had to choose either. That is your assumption. My point was that those guided by only or primarily compassion will be easily lead by those seeking to manipulate that impulse. I also never said those were the only choices. Anything you choose can be a guiding principle. Most people have one even if they don't realize it. What is more important is to have a consistent world view IMO. Which is very difficult without some principle which is used as a framework, or group of principles.

And I think that most of us here are also guided by both compassion and liberty. There isn’t much remarkable or controversial about either of those. But I find the assumption that any of us aren’t somewhat offensive. Biden is basically a child predator; would it be more compassionate to vote for him instead?

[unity100]

It's something Dolores Cannon said:

"The only way extraterrestrials can intervene in our evolution is if we are going to blow ourselves up. If earth were to destroy itself, it would cause reverberations throughout the entire galaxy, across many dimensions, and everything in the universe would be affected."

http://audreythoreau.blogspot.com/2012/1...annon.html

Sorry but all kinds of things are said in spiritual literature by many people. 

And yet, the material we study says that Yahweh, who did that kind of saving last time when 3d entities blew themselves up in Mars, was quarantined from this planet for intervening in free will of entities, and the quarantine which was going to be much lighter was made much tighter.

This means that no such free ride from that point on. Ra and confederation have saved spirits during nuclear explosions in hiroshima and nagasaki which should have never, ever happened, but those spirits will need healing as Ra says, and that will likely be a long time.

If you could call violently dying and having to heal for eons in time/space only to start the exact same 3d again, 'being saved', well...

I am in the U.S. I basically see what you see, though I am less educated in what is going on in the media—especially politics, which is a game so obviously and stupidly played it always reminds me of the dystopian world portrayed in 1984, where everything is just spewed nonsense to keep people distratcted.

Actually, its considerably better than that. In a setting like 1984, the establishment holds all the reins, and there is no other channel of information. People believe things by their heart. Earlier states of world, especially US, can be likened to 1984 than today. For example in early 1960s, Americans supported Vietnam war. There was no question about it. Or the vilification of Eastern Bloc (the other self), or the proposition that they were free and living in the best place in the world and so on. The thought control was absolute.

Today it isnt. Hence all the problems. As the illusion shatters, everyone reactions per his/her biases and psychology. And deep inside, per his/her spiritual bias.

I don't agree with your black-and-white assessment above. 

In general, a portion of the 60s society did fit your description. But a large part didn't—namely, the young people and those older people who were in alignment with them. The 60s kicked off a major rebellion against "the establishment." Protests against the Viet Nam war, make love not war, mind expansion with drugs, etc.

Indeed. Hippies. Aka the recent wanderer wave which came from Ra and other confederation sources...

But they didnt call the shots, did they. The establishment and its majority followers kept on.

Today's young people (along with almost everyone else) are generally "plugged in" to a constant (lying, hyperbolizing, spinning, subliminal-programming, and so on) media. Whether they are conscious of it or not, they are being brainwashed on some level because of it. The average person seems to be spewing out what has been put into their heads via media, and they think they are thinking for themselves; but all they seem to be doing is rearranging the spun input.

If you follow the proper crowd at Twitter, you'd notice that the conscious youth are much, much larger than the proportion in 60s and they are much, much more radicalized.

A few clicks on wrong tweets can take you back to a surreal alt-right conspiracy hellhole though. Such fast work the algorithms that shape your feed...

I do see the shattering happening though. And, I am not trying to be negative. I just don't like pretending everything is going great when it doesn't appear to be.

...

One of the challenges I see with this idea is that of money. If a person is out of work, doesn't own any property, and is in survival mode, it's going to be difficult to even concentrate on forming a cooperative. This is an effective avenue of control, by keeping people dependent on the system. However, that does not mean there aren't those who are able to form such groups.

You must look at the right places.

https://mutualaidhub.org

Just starting somewhere goes a long way.

The other difficulty I see here is the flow of information. The level of trust in information has degraded so much. Technically, almost everything is hearsay, so trust is important. This may be one reason why people cling so much to their beliefs—because they need the convincing themselves due to such a confused state of trust/mistrust.

The method for discerning truth has not changed since the inception of human civilization, nor it is too different from other 3d societies on different planets:

One's own knowledge, coupled with being in contact with knowledgeable and honest people, allows one to discern the truth and tell apart the lies.

To put it very simply into current context: Just following Bernie Sanders twitter or facebook page will allow you to read a lot of different contacts - journalists, politicians and activists - who are trustworthy. Ken Klippenstein, Ben Norton, Abby Martin are some good names to start with. Ken is also funny, so you get news and humor at the same time.

The media response and more importantly the massive republican main stream push back that Trump received is the best evidence for him being exactly what he says he is. A person who wants what is best for America and has certain ideas about what that means.

That should be the reason for the $3 trillion corporate bailout he pushed...

The media has been so divisive and lied so much about Trump that you basically can't believe anything you read or hear about him.

So you just make up stuff in your mind then. That's not a good way to approach society.

Anything he does which is good is ignored and the racial hate fostering is out of this world.

The guy is actively, insistently pushing racial hate by using racist dog whistles and actual Nazis', racists', Ku Klux Klan leaders' narratives. He actually makes money off of them as well.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...91666.html

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2019...story.html

You have equated support of Trump for support of extremist beliefs

...

...lumped people in...

As a student of history, i will state this in the most certain terms:

Why you support such a group is immaterial. That group will act according to their own policies, irreverent of the attributions you make to its leader or its followers in your mind.

This is how such situations evolved on every occasion throughout human history. It wont evolve differently this time.

There is a culture war going on right now and the left/progressive/social justice is the side which is using communist tactics

The problem here is that, there is no such thing, and if i asked you to actually identify those 'communist tactics' and explain how they are communist by using actual political science and history, you would not be able to do that.

You are literally using hate words which the very extremist right invents to vilify anything they dont like in one spot - black people fed up with being killed like animals and protesting? "Communists are doing it!!"

Which is not the first time extremist right in US did that



And lo and behold - there you go, Martin Luther King, 'the communist'...

By the way, i will drop a very interesting bit about that word 'communist' at the end of this post.

extreme left

There is no 'left' in US. Leave aside 'extreme' version of it.

Per actual political science, entire US is to the right of political spectrum when compared to entire rest of the world.

The 'left' policies of your Democrats are center right policies in places like Germany, Singapore, Japan. 

The policies of your right, GOP, can not be found anywhere in the world, not even in Somalia. Even minority Neonazi groups in Germany do not use a similar rhetoric or similar policies. You read that right - German Neonazi groups are shying away from saying the same things which American right uses for fear of appearing too extreme. This is how far right US political spectrum has toppled. 

Of course, for someone who thinks that black people protesting being killed like animals...

https://www.commondreams.org/further/202...rdered-him

...is 'communist cultural tactics', this proposition is way too complicated to digest.

But yes. Neonazi groups across Europe are distancing themselves from American right, despite having sympathized with them before. From flat earth to 2nd coming of Jesus after a nuclear war which alt-right themselves will initiate, from actual racism to even calls for privatizing road network. It was too much for European alt-right to appear sympathetic.

...

Incidentally all of your problems happen because you dont have an actual left in US to balance the right - last 40 years' of privatizations, corporate sociopathy, private healthcare letting you to die if you cant pay, wars, wars and more wars, wages declining despite increasing productivity, $100k topping average student debt, retirees not being able to retire...

http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/

...environmental disasters, corporate bailouts, 2008 bank fraud, pedophile elites...

Every single country than US has at least a measure of left unlike US and nobody is suffering through such a delirious, destructive environment. 

When you leave the environment to the ultra rich, they run away with entire society. Which is what you did. 

Doing more of that will not change things.

Of course, you have to try to find some objective news, or at least places that actually report the president's actions to know that.

There is literally nothing which Donald Trump did apart from shelling out another $3 trillion bailout to corporations - this time corporations close to him got the booty, of course - that's the difference.

That's the objective news.

Compassion will be used by those who desire power over others to lead them to hell, and make it look like salvation

You are just making up things and attributing it to the actual sheepdog, while projecting it outward. There is no discussing with the world you created inside your mind. Its not only pointless, its also personal. So i will just stop doing it at this point.

...

On to that interesting word 'communist':

https://www.lawofone.info/s/8#6

8.6 Questioner: How did the United States learn of the technology to build these land [inaudible]?

Ra: I am Ra. There was a mind/body/spirit complex known to your people by the vibratory sound complex, Nikola. This entity departed the illusion and the papers containing the necessary understandings were taken by mind/body/spirit complexes serving your security of national divisional complex. Thus your people became privy to the basic technology. In the case of those mind/body/spirit complexes which you call Russians, the technology was given from one of the Confederation in an attempt, approximately twenty-seven of your years ago, to share information and bring about peace among your peoples. The entities giving this information were in error, but we did many things at the end of this cycle in attempts to aid your harvest from which we learned the folly of certain types of aid. That is a contributing factor to our more cautious approach at this date, even as the need is power upon power greater, and your people’s call is greater and greater.

During a quarantine of this planet, which was tightened because Yahweh meddled with free will of 3d entities incarnating on this planet:

- A Confederation smc decided to give Tesla weapons to communist USSR
- Confederation at large accepted their proposition
- Confederation smc contacted council of nine, entities of 8d which reside on Saturn's rings and which govern this sector of creation
- Council of nine allowed/approved this plan
- Earth's guardians approved this plan - we dont know whether guardians are the same entities with council of nine, or other entities, that part is not clear. In either case, nothing passes the quarantine without approval of the guardians. They approved
- Earth's future 7d totality approved this plan. Without the approval of the future totality, nothing can happen, as can be seen from various incidents in the material
- Confederation smc passed through the quarantine, contacted USSR entities in person, and gave them actual Tesla weapons, back sometime in 1954.

How about that, huh... The positive confederation, gave Tesla weapons to communist USSR as you call them, so that they could defend themselves from the leader of the free world, lover of freedom of democracy, United States, who also had Tesla weapons and was planning to use them against entire Eastern Bloc. (historical tidbit).

So, next time you use that word communist with such a hate and such vilification, take a few seconds to remember what's above.

...

The first time this dawned on me, i was literally dumbfounded. Not about what i had just realized - but about how i did not realize it before...

This is likely one of the most uncomfortable bits of information in the material, for many. Ironically, in the mud of this planet's social consciousness, uncomfortable truth is the shortest and safest way to spiritual progress.

[Black Dragon]

Well, the way I see it, the USSR was hella corrupt, but no more so than our government at the time and to this very day. Really the ET's were just evening out the playing field...in a way. What bothers me is not outing the truth to regular people, and giving s*** to corrupt authoritarian governments instead, whether it's the USA or USSR or China. The worst of humanity are the politicians, oligarchs, and military industrialists, and the ET's interacting with those people and only those people like they represent the broader population is disgusting.

Maybe giving the tech to the USSR was warranted, but then they should have given a bunch of civilian inventors free energy and anti gravity "Tesla" tech at the same time. Not one or two isolated people that can easily be shut down and shut up, but a bunch of people at once with the means of getting it out to the public. That would have been respectful of our free will-sure you'd see some people using these things for STS but that's what the governments do anyways...it would at least give each individual the full opportunity to make that choice, and I think STO would win out, because the majority of the general population leans towards STO while a majority of those in governing positions leans towards STS.

The secrecy of these technologies is beneficial to the STS, not to STO. That's what's giving the STS elite their advantage over the STO majority. Yeah sure, a brave new world full of Tesla tech is scary for those who'd rather remain asleep...but is it really as scary as misery, scarcity, limitation, and being crippled and dying to easily cured diseases, having to slave away to afford a s*** living and a meaningless work-a-day life when we could be Star Trekin' it? I think not.

One day I'd like to be proven that these ET's that are so called "STO" actually are STO, and not just apathetic/sociopathic elitist authoritarian cunts with no principles, just like the people in charge of our governments, corporations, and major organized religions. For once I'd like to know that they actually have a heart, and aren't just playing some dumb ass chess game with us. I really don't feel that these "guardians" responsible for keeping the "quarantine" in place are "good people". I'm just not seeing it. I'm not seeing how they are capable of empathy in the slightest, and I'm not seeing how their actions/lack of actions in certain regards are helping anybody but the STS elite.

[AnthroHeart]

Well, the way I see it, the USSR was hella corrupt, but no more so than our government at the time and to this very day. Really the ET's were just evening out the playing field...in a way. What bothers me is not outing the truth to regular people, and giving s*** to corrupt authoritarian governments instead, whether it's the USA or USSR or China. The worst of humanity are the politicians, oligarchs, and military industrialists, and the ET's interacting with those people and only those people like they represent the broader population is disgusting.

Bashar's people, the Essassani (5D Positive) have tried visiting 3 people, but their energy was so strong that the 3 people ran from them.
This was after they had agreed to meet.

[Black Dragon]

Well, the way I see it, the USSR was hella corrupt, but no more so than our government at the time and to this very day. Really the ET's were just evening out the playing field...in a way. What bothers me is not outing the truth to regular people, and giving s*** to corrupt authoritarian governments instead, whether it's the USA or USSR or China. The worst of humanity are the politicians, oligarchs, and military industrialists, and the ET's interacting with those people and only those people like they represent the broader population is disgusting.

Bashar's people, the Essassani (5D Positive) have tried visiting 3 people, but their energy was so strong that the 3 people ran from them.
This was after they had agreed to meet.

I've heard this one. I've also heard that there's technically no more quarantine preventing any contact, but now it's up to us/the rate we are ready for it. I suppose that would be fair, and hope there's truth to that statement. I just wonder why such a quarantine and the miserable conditions behind it was allowed to persist for so long. It's going to be a bit difficult/late to play "catch up" now that this technology and knowledge has been in the hands of the elite so long and denied the average person equally as long.

I saw a documentary about a guy named Joseph Newman who invented a free energy generator that actually worked. They screwed him over and shut him down so hard that he became paranoid and withdrawn and would not trust anyone enough to share his secrets, and died with them in 2015 with several people who seemed independent and truthful trying to verify his stuff and get it out. Some of them were probably legit but he'd been f***** so bad over the decades he just wasn't having it. He was quite neurotic by the time he was interviewed for this documentary.

Whatever kind of "STO" ETs have been around here up to this point have been baby stepping around the elite, treating them as legitimate representatives of our planet, and not having the back of wanderers and civilian inventors at all. I say smoke them, which may not sound so STO to some people...but I'd understand if a certain level of non-interference would not allow them to take military action on the elite...however, the elite should be completely marginalized, ignored, and treated as illegitimate and the knowledge should be given freely into the right hands to make a change, and those people should be backed up and prevented from being shut down and silenced.

[unity100]

USSR was hella corrupt

That's the propaganda on the other side of the pond. An empty, undefined term 'corruption'.

USSR was not a country which let its citizens to die if they were not able to pay for healthcare. Or left its people homeless. Or without education. Or without a proper retirement at a proper age.

US system literally kills people if they cant pay the hospital.

When you legalize corruption like in US, you dont have corruption - all legal. Funny how that works huh...

...

On the issue of Tesla devices, you may remember from the material that Confederation's main grievance with "those who you call Russians" is that they did not make the Tesla devices available to everybody as free energy. Not that they made weapons with them.

This is before the fact that Ra directly calls US and its allies 'controlled fascism', but does not call eastern bloc socialism or communism. Just like they dont call USSR 'Russians' - for there were many nationalities in USSR. Hence the precise way of saying "those who you call Russians", while at the same time taking a slight jab at the incorrect way of contemporary America's way of calling USSR. Ra was precise in their terminology.

So basically Confederation calls the Western bloc 'controlled fascism' and they gave weapons to Eastern Bloc.

One of my pet peeves is amazing at how i did not realize this important bit of information decades ago despite reading the material many times. Then again, realizing things at such a detail at that time may have been a bit dangerous or at least prohibitive.

[Black Dragon]

At least in the early days, the USSR had people killed and imprisoned for political bullshit reasons. There was various types of corruption in their government, objectively speaking and aside from western propaganda. Let's not kid ourselves and look at them as some mythical progressive unicorn-they had plenty of authoritarian and elitist elements in their own system, though it was arguably a comparatively better system than the west in many major ways. They did experiments on their own population similar to MK Ultra, and they ultimately kept UFO's and related technology a secret...so f*** 'em.

One thing that can be said is life in the USSR is not as bad as painted by the west during the cold war. Most older people that live in former USSR countries say life was better and there was actually less greed and political corruption in the USSR than today, and that makes complete sense-but that does not automatically make them perfect or negate the messed up STS stuff inherent to all earthly governments.

So...the ET's were disappointed that the tech wasn't shared...at least so they claim. How could they not have the foresight to know this would be the case with elitist Earth governments, and why did they not therefore share it with civilian inventors who had no government or military industrial ties? Either they aren't very smart, or they actually do not want the technology shared among the greater population of the world. Either answer is quite disappointing to me.

[Sacred Fool]

USSR was hella corrupt

That's the propaganda on the other side of the pond. An empty, undefined term 'corruption'.

USSR was not a country which let its citizens to die if they were not able to pay for healthcare. Or left its people homeless. Or without education. Or without a proper retirement at a proper age.

US system literally kills people if they cant pay the hospital.

When you legalize corruption like in US, you dont have corruption - all legal. Funny how that works huh...

Oh, yes, Eastern Europe has long history of egalitarian liberty going all the way back to the Tsars, Genghis Khan and various other kings, smaller warlords and potentates.  Free land and health care for all people has been their hallmark.  Each tribe embraced the other as its brother and all sang songs about it together in 4 part harmony.

Uh, wait.....................that may be all made up.

Actually, maybe the Boyars and their counterparts in neighboring areas didn't really take such good care of their slaves--uh--serfs?  Maybe each ethnic tribe who wanted land had to butcher a neighboring tribe to get it.  But that's not corruption, is it?  After all, it was common practice, which is sort like saying it was legal. 

Could it be that Russia went from Boyars to modern oligarchs but had a corruption-free period in the 20th century?  Was it really a worker's paradise?  From reading Solzhenitsyn and other dissidents, that's not impression I got.


Sorry to go on like that, but your passage above stood out to me as being absurd.  The portion pertaining to the US, however, I will not dispute.  The vices of one group are not more desirable than the vices of the other, in my view.
  
  

[Black Dragon]

USSR was hella corrupt

That's the propaganda on the other side of the pond. An empty, undefined term 'corruption'.

USSR was not a country which let its citizens to die if they were not able to pay for healthcare. Or left its people homeless. Or without education. Or without a proper retirement at a proper age.

US system literally kills people if they cant pay the hospital.

When you legalize corruption like in US, you dont have corruption - all legal. Funny how that works huh...

Oh, yes, Eastern Europe has long history of egalitarian liberty going all the way back to the Tsars, Genghis Khan and various other kings, smaller warlords and potentates.  Free land and health care for all people has been their hallmark.  Each tribe embraced the other as its brother and all sang songs about it together in 4 part harmony.

Uh, wait.....................that may be all made up.

Actually, maybe the Boyars and their counterparts in neighboring areas didn't really take such good care of their slaves--uh--serfs?  Maybe each ethnic tribe who wanted land had to butcher a neighboring tribe to get it.  But that's not corruption, is it?  After all, it was common practice, which is sort like saying it was legal. 

Could it be that Russia went from Boyars to modern oligarchs but had a corruption-free period in the 20th century?  Was it really a worker's paradise?  From reading Solzhenitsyn and other dissidents, that's not impression I got.


Sorry to go on like that, but your passage above stood out to me as being absurd.  The portion pertaining to the US, however, I will not dispute.  The vices of one group are not more desirable than the vices of the other, in my view.
  
  

I thought basically the same thing. No Earth government is as magically progressive as some people think-practically all of them have strong elitist and authoritarian tendencies. Thanks for the history lesson. I think some people sorely need it now and then. For example; Iran has much better human rights and freedoms than our(US perspective) "ally" Saudi Arabia, but that in no way makes it perfect, or makes the Iranian government the best thing since sliced bread.

I think most regular people want to get along, but most governments have a high concentration of STS-geared people.

[Sacred Fool]

I think most regular people want to get along, but most governments have a high concentration of STS-geared people.

Well, my guess is that most of the time most of us are slopping around in that big old sinkhole of indifference, but telling ourselves that we're really doing something more worthwhile.  It is just stunning how hard it can be to see our own actions from a higher perspective (which is also ours)!  I wish I knew an easy way to hold that perspective while I'm BS'ing myself about how cool I am.
  
  

[Black Dragon]

[/quote]

I wish I knew an easy way to hold that perspective while I'm BS'ing myself about how cool I am.
  
  
[/quote]
You and me both

[Sacred Fool]

I wish I knew an easy way to hold that perspective while I'm BS'ing myself about how cool I am.

You and me both.

Ha.  Yeah.

Well, if anyone has an answer, it'll be you-know-who.  We'll see what he can come up with.
  
  

[Spaced]

USSR was hella corrupt

That's the propaganda on the other side of the pond. An empty, undefined term 'corruption'.

USSR was not a country which let its citizens to die if they were not able to pay for healthcare. Or left its people homeless. Or without education. Or without a proper retirement at a proper age.

US system literally kills people if they cant pay the hospital.

When you legalize corruption like in US, you dont have corruption - all legal. Funny how that works huh...

Oh, yes, Eastern Europe has long history of egalitarian liberty going all the way back to the Tsars, Genghis Khan and various other kings, smaller warlords and potentates.  Free land and health care for all people has been their hallmark.  Each tribe embraced the other as its brother and all sang songs about it together in 4 part harmony.

Uh, wait.....................that may be all made up.

Actually, maybe the Boyars and their counterparts in neighboring areas didn't really take such good care of their slaves--uh--serfs?  Maybe each ethnic tribe who wanted land had to butcher a neighboring tribe to get it.  But that's not corruption, is it?  After all, it was common practice, which is sort like saying it was legal. 

Could it be that Russia went from Boyars to modern oligarchs but had a corruption-free period in the 20th century?  Was it really a worker's paradise?  From reading Solzhenitsyn and other dissidents, that's not impression I got.


Sorry to go on like that, but your passage above stood out to me as being absurd.  The portion pertaining to the US, however, I will not dispute.  The vices of one group are not more desirable than the vices of the other, in my view.  

I don't see where Unity100 said any of those things. He was talking about the USSR, not the Tsardom, Khans, etc. I'm sure he would agree with you about them being corrupt. Your source Solzhenitsyn, on the other hand, had nothing but praise for the Tsars and the Russian Empire, which he found far preferable to the liberalism of the West.

This is just a strawman argument you pulled out to prove, uhhhh, that Slavic people are intrinsically corrupt? I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.

I'm not gonna pretend there were no flaws with the soviet system, but it's a fact that the lives of millions were improved under that system and that the Soviet Union did the lions share of the work in defeating the Nazi regime. After WWII the Soviets thought they had earned the respect of the global community and instead we shut them out leading to deep entrenchment on both sides and an incredible waste of resources on a never-ending arms race. One of the saddest things in modern history is that is we had all come together after the war we could have vastly improved life on Earth and ushered in the harvest on time. I don't think we gain anything by villainizing them.

When the USSR collapsed, crime and corruption skyrocketed. You can find countless studies showing that the majority of Russians felt life was better under the Soviet Union https://www.levada.ru/en/2017/12/25/nost...-the-ussr/

[unity100]

Oh, yes, Eastern Europe has long history of egalitarian liberty going all the way back to the Tsars, Genghis Khan and various other kings, smaller warlords and potentates.

Leaving aside doing referrals all the way back to freaking Genghis Khan is white supremacist narrative that plagues Angloamerican literature in order to equate the Eastern Bloc with 'evil' and therefore trying to delegitimize them by advocating guilt by association because it cant bring economic arguments against them, and Genghis Khan has nothing to do with Eastern European society or ethnicity...

Free land and health care for all people has been their hallmark.  Each tribe embraced the other as its brother and all sang songs about it together in 4 part harmony.

...if you go back that much as you did, you would find William the Conqueror massacring 40,000 people in a go after having conquered England. It would start from there, and go all the way to how Anglosphere establishment eradicated entire North America, almost eradicated Australia and was on its way to eradicate various other segments in Africa until modern times caught up.

English establishment just declared that the Native Americans were 'not human' and it was ok to kill them - and it was even for their own good!

Eradication - there is no other such examples of genocide in history.

There is no known case of invasion/occupation/conquest in history in which the conquerors totally eradicated the natives one by one and took their place after exterminating them. This includes early indo-European invasions in bronze age, Genghis Khan's conquests, and any other example that can be pulled out of history.

Conquests always took the form of conquering the local population and establishing oneself as the elite while going on to intermingle with the population. There are no exceptions to that.

Even the supposed eradication of Britons by Anglosaxons as counted by Bede turned out to be false narrative - it was another case of intermingling, and to a level much lesser than what was thought.

Genghis Khan in particular - the deal was simple: Join us, or die. If you joined, you were conquered like any other conquered society.

Native Americans didnt have such a choice. They were declared non human and they were eradicated.

If you try to go that far back, things go very bad for the argument which you very flimsily tried to make.

Actually, maybe the Boyars and their counterparts in neighboring areas didn't really take such good care of their slaves--uh--serfs?  Maybe each ethnic tribe who wanted land had to butcher a neighboring tribe to get it.  But that's not corruption, is it?  After all, it was common practice, which is sort like saying it was legal. 

Could it be that Russia went from Boyars to modern oligarchs but had a corruption-free period in the 20th century?  Was it really a worker's paradise?  From reading Solzhenitsyn and other dissidents, that's not impression I got.

The above argument is unintelligible. "There were Boyars and serfdom back in Eastern Europe in Middle Ages."

That is your argument against healthcare in Eastern Bloc?

That does not sound sane, im afraid. Or you are grasping at straws.

Sorry to go on like that, but your passage above stood out to me as being absurd.

 

What's absurd is making referrals to ~1000 years earlier in an attempt to invalidate free healthcare in Eastern Bloc. That does not make any kind of sense.

The portion pertaining to the US, however, I will not dispute.

 
Then your argument was invalid from the start and it did not even need making. You talked about freaking Genghis Khan and medieval kingdoms in an attempt to vilify Eastern Bloc because free healthcare or guaranteed jobs were too strong arguments against contemporary American society.

At least in the early days, the USSR had people killed and imprisoned for political bullshit reasons.

The reasons were not bullshit at all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_int..._Civil_War

~18 countries of the 'free world' invaded Russia under the leadership of '(then) leader of the free world' Great Britain, in order to repress the people and reinstall Tzar and aristocracy.

This was accompanied by internal proto-fascist elements which are grouped into 'Whites'.

When the invasion failed because there was zero support in those countries for a new war after so many died in World War I, the 'free countries' started giving funding and weapons to the fascists in former Russia in order to have them take over.

Even still, only a fraction of white leaders were prosecuted as such, and most were integrated into later Soviet society, and many from the positions which they have occupied before the revolution - clerks, engineers, managers and other positions. Those who were in leadership positions were rarely spared of course.

Especially people like 'Admiral Kolchak', who was the leader of the White Army in the East, who was so very much lauded in British press as a 'freedom fighter', who was hanging entire villages from telegraph poles if they did not agree to his demands. You can understand how the Soviet armies which liberated their own regions, their own villages, felt, after seeing their relatives hanging from telegraph poles. There was little mercy for those who did such acts.

Neither such crimes are 'bullshit crimes'.

You can go to prison for less in US today. US president has the right to kidnap and indefinitely hold anyone without showing any reason at all. This is an open, known, actual law. No other country's president or pm has such an open legal right.

But things appear the other way because hypocrisy plagues Anglosphere establishment - lies like Iraqi WMDs are not new things, neither an entire establishment could maintain such a lie for 8 years unless entire establishment was created, trained, and geared for doing that - not one single media outlet or one single major politician broke the ranks during 8 years and contested the lie of nonexistent WMDs. Not one single of them. Each and every one of them pushed the lie in lockstep fervently.

Now they are not talking about that in order to have it forgotten. But, it will not be forgotten this time, because we have internet. If we didnt, it would have been forgotten like every single case of lying and misrepresenting before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_Suit_Riots

There. So much as wearing the wrong size of pants would get you shoved into prison in 1930s US, the exact same period with early USSR. Because, you would have shown that you were 'uppity' despite being from a 'lesser' ethnicity. Latino, in that particular case. The supposed freedom pertained to the 'right demographic' and among them, the sufficiently wealthy. Not to anyone else.

Nobody knows this better than Blacks, who were already shoved into prison system as slave labor after slavery was reconstituted through the prison system after Civil War.

Only to be interrupted by the manpower needs of US during World War 2 and the following Civil Rights movement, those who are of the 'right ethnic background' took initiative into their own hands by launching the 'War on Drugs' to reinstitute slavery through prison.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nixon-ad...019-7?IR=T

And lo and behold, today there is actual slavery through the prison system now. And this time, it does not even discriminate based on color - any person of any color is profitable as slave labor for the owners of the prison system and the corporations which utilize them.

How about that for psychopathy? Implementing a society-wide slave labor system justified through 'law and order'. Targeting the opposition demographic which prevented them from waging war abroad.

And yet, Soviets are the bad people for persecuting actual armed combatants who took arms against their own country with the backing of foreign invaders and massacred their own countrymen as if they were animals. To bring back a brutal, repressive aristocracy which lived in extravaganza on the backs of their people who perished in poverty.

The level of hypocrisy and deceit which accompanies the sociopathy in Anglosphere establishment is unparalleled in history. Im making this as a statement based on actual history - even the most sociopathic social constructs in society did not deceitfully portray themselves as democratic or freedom-loving. Thats what separates Anglosphere establishment from every single existing establishment including Francophile, German, Italian, other western establishments and historical establishments. The level of sociopathic deceit is unparalleled.

The only analogy that can be made is how Nazis also declared many different peoples as sub human and eradicated them.

But...

Even Nazis declared those people sub human - not 'inhuman'. That is what the Anglosphere establishment did to Native Americans, Aborigines and others. They did not see them fit even as slave labor. They considered them animals which need eradicating.

There isnt another example of this in history.

I don't see where Unity100 said any of those things. He was talking about the USSR, not the Tsardom, Khans, etc.

In an amazing display of the effectiveness of establishment propaganda, peregrine just repeated what the openly white supremacist segments of Anglosphere literature used for a century to vilify their Cold War enemy - 'Genghis Khan'. Despite it does not make any sense to any educated or well read person who does not have racial superiority tendencies - so, Genghis Khan was a bad person - what does this have to do with Eastern Europe, and what does that have to do with USSR.

But if there is any tendency in someone to feeling of superiority or adherence to the concept of 'races', then guilt by association transfers from Genghis Khan to 'Eastern Europeans who mixed with Mongols' (thats another 'bad word'), and then it transfers to Russians per 19th century propaganda by British establishment, and then it transfers all the way to Soviet Union because, well, 'race'.

This is an example of how negative manipulators use feelings of superiority or 2d-remnant sentiments of race when 3d entities still adhere to them.

"Us versus others"

source Solzhenitsyn, on the other hand, had nothing but praise for the Tsars and the Russian Empire, which he found far preferable to the liberalism of the West.

He went further than that - he advocated peace with Nazi Germany, expressed support for fascists during Ww2 even as those Nazis massacred 13 million Soviet civilians.

When fascist regime ended in Spain, he went on Spanish TV and urged Spaniards to not let go of fascism.

That's when the Western establishment stopped using him as a propaganda device against Eastern Bloc - he just went too far bonkers for them to be able to use them.

This is just a strawman argument you pulled out to prove, uhhhh, that Slavic people are intrinsically corrupt? I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.

That was the point which he unwittingly carried from Angloamerican propaganda literature.

I'm not gonna pretend there were no flaws with the soviet system, but it's a fact that the lives of millions were improved under that system and that the Soviet Union did the lions share of the work in defeating the Nazi regime. After WWII the Soviets thought they had earned the respect of the global community and instead we shut them out leading to deep entrenchment on both sides and an incredible waste of resources on a never-ending arms race. One of the saddest things in modern history is that is we had all come together after the war we could have vastly improved life on Earth and ushered in the harvest on time.

Indeed, and...

i don't think we gain anything by villainizing them.

We dont have anything to gain from that. We have a lot to lose.

But...

Those elite who own the Western establishment, especially Anglosphere establishment, have much to gain:

Through that vilification USSR is vilified, and through vilification of USSR socialism, communism etc are vilified, and through that, any policy that would better the lives of the people by reducing the power and wealth of the elite is vilified

This way US ended up with a healthcare system that makes profits by leaving people to die.

Its a situation inexplicable in any given society in any given point in history - no one could ever justify letting large segments of population to die despite having the means to save them. Many societies in history would see that as delirious, because it reduces your population and weakens your society. "You have the medicine to save them, why are you withholding it"...

When the USSR collapsed, crime and corruption skyrocketed. You can find countless studies showing that the majority of Russians felt life was better under the Soviet Union https://www.levada.ru/en/2017/12/25/nost...-the-ussr/

Because 'Chicago Boys' pushed neoliberal 'freedom economics' to Russia. 3 million Russians are estimated to have died in the ensuing 'free market' in which people had to eat pigeons to live.

As a result ~60% of Russians, ~64% of East Germans want communism back.

Even as in today's Russia, people are not just left to die when they cant pay for healthcare. Their socialized healthcare system is weak, but it still does not just let people to die for profit like in US.

And all that sociopathy in US is justified through, well, 'freedom'...

Freedom for whom...

[Sacred Fool]

Well, well. So many thoughts. So many words.

Genghis Khan, the Ottoman Turks, Solzhenitsyn are all problematical, indeed, along with Norman conquerers, slaughtered American Natives and the US healthcare system. Perhaps I decorated my simple point too lavishly? I was just commenting that the Soviet system was, among other things, resoundingly corrupt (not unlike comparable Western governmental systems). Secondly, as stated, but possibly lost in the dust of many hoofbeats, I think it's of little value trading one set of vices for another. Better to resonate with virtue, in my view. In this instance, I would argue, over sensitive bickering, to some degree, actually amplifies the divisiveness desired by our dear leaders...in the US of A or in Russia or in whatever negative regime you personally favor or disfavor. In other words, what's missing here is kindness and civility, yoghurt, macrame, Woodstock and love. (Oops, there I go with the over decoration again!)

[Spaced]

While I think your main point is valid, what it boils down to for me is that I would rather live in a system built on an ideological foundation of mutual cooperation and the fundamental equality of humankind than one oriented around the accumulation of wealth and the elevation of the individual. Even if there is corruption, at least there is a common goal and something to strive for. One of these paths has a future the other does not.

I often think about this quote from Hatonn about their own experience in graduating 3rd density:

I am Hatonn, and I am again with you. We have adjusted our being and we feel that we are more closely aligned with this instrument. At this time, we would like to share with you a story of our past.

At one time, we of Hatonn were a warlike nation in that, although united as one planet, we were divided into many sects that strove to dominate or control the planet. We chose to combat one another in our efforts to achieve this control, however, none were able to dominate and all were weakened by the struggle. Finally a point was reached in which we of Hatonn were destitute. We had destroyed all of the resources that our planet had to offer and were unable to kill one another simply because we no longer possessed the raw materials from which to construct further weaponry. At this point, we had also destroyed our food chain and were near starvation. In many ways we were, at that time, very similar to you as your planet is today, fixed upon oblivion.

We discovered that our survival as a priority superseded all other priorities and that the requirements for survival became very obvious: regard each man or woman as one’s own brother and share with that brother as you would with your wife or husband or child. Our decimation became, in this manner, our strength. In our choice, in our choosing to reduce our planet’s ability to support life, we inadvertently chose a very strenuously spiritual path, that of loving through forced sharing. Perhaps this may not sound very spiritual to those listening to our words, however, then we learned that sharing was more valuable than surviving. We obtained a vibration level that enabled us to both sustain our bodies and at the same time, progress beyond physical needs.

We share this story with you not in pride, obviously, but in encouragement.

I hope we don't get to that point and we can learn to share and cooperate before it comes to that.

[Black Dragon]

Some people just want to "belong" to something so bad that they crave the authority of some government, past or present. They will then continue to spew half-baked apologetics in favor or defense of said government or organization, conveniently overlooking all the wrongs it committed, rather than simply forming an objective conclusion based on their own discernment.

That same line of thinking can be about a political candidate. Half-baked apologetics, overlooking everything wrong about that person just to feel that they "belong" to something, or to feel in some way represented  by some form of authority.

So to me, whether somebody is spewing said apologetics in favor of Trump, or of the USSR, or any other corrupt person or institution it all just smells like bullshit to me. I find it not only annoyingly sheepy and conformist, but also of a divisive nature that just fuels endless arguments defending people and institutions who clearly suck, rather than people being their own authorities and having reasonable discussions coming from a standpoint of their own inherent ethics and discernment.

I'm not saying this to be insulting, although it can be taken that way since I won't sugar coat it. The truth is, a lot of intelligent, reasonable people get caught up in this sort of thing. It doesn't necessarily require being an idiot or a sheep, it's just one of those inherently s*** parts of human nature(or societal conditioning more likely) that can overtake one if their "eye is not on the ball".

[Sacred Fool]

So to me, whether somebody is spewing said apologetics in favor of Trump, or of the USSR, or any other corrupt person or institution it all just smells like bullshit to me. I find it not only annoyingly sheepy and conformist, but also of a divisive nature that just fuels endless arguments defending people and institutions who clearly suck, rather than people being their own authorities and having reasonable discussions coming from a standpoint of their own inherent ethics and discernment.

Well, you know, being a human--or portraying one in a dense illusion--is not an easy business.  Sometimes it's good to let people define their space, have their say and learn their lessons in their own time.  That can be said of acceptance of self as well. 

...what it boils down to for me is that I would rather live in a system built on an ideological foundation of mutual cooperation and the fundamental equality of humankind than one oriented around the accumulation of wealth and the elevation of the individual. Even if there is corruption, at least there is a common goal and something to strive for. One of these paths has a future the other does not.

That sounds lovely to me.  How do we get there?  I'd say by choosing to vibrate that way one by one, then linking with others doing the same.  I don't expect it can come through rhetoric and large scale planning, but by each learning to care and to love, then connecting with others doing likewise.  Just my view.
  
  

[Spaced]

...what it boils down to for me is that I would rather live in a system built on an ideological foundation of mutual cooperation and the fundamental equality of humankind than one oriented around the accumulation of wealth and the elevation of the individual. Even if there is corruption, at least there is a common goal and something to strive for. One of these paths has a future the other does not.

That sounds lovely to me.  How do we get there?  I'd say by choosing to vibrate that way one by one, then linking with others doing the same.  I don't expect it can come through rhetoric and large scale planning, but by each learning to care and to love, then connecting with others doing likewise.  Just my view.  
  

I agree fully. Mutual aid and spontaneous organization at the grassroots level are what we need to achieve this goal.

I'd point out that these also happen to be the main tenets of anarcho-communism.

[Diana]

Some people just want to "belong" to something so bad that they crave the authority of some government, past or present. They will then continue to spew half-baked apologetics in favor or defense of said government or organization, conveniently overlooking all the wrongs it committed, rather than simply forming an objective conclusion based on their own discernment.

That same line of thinking can be about a political candidate. Half-baked apologetics, overlooking everything wrong about that person just to feel that they "belong" to something, or to feel in some way represented  by some form of authority.

So to me, whether somebody is spewing said apologetics in favor of Trump, or of the USSR, or any other corrupt person or institution it all just smells like bullshit to me. I find it not only annoyingly sheepy and conformist, but also of a divisive nature that just fuels endless arguments defending people and institutions who clearly suck, rather than people being their own authorities and having reasonable discussions coming from a standpoint of their own inherent ethics and discernment.

I'm not saying this to be insulting, although it can be taken that way since I won't sugar coat it. The truth is, a lot of intelligent, reasonable people get caught up in this sort of thing. It doesn't necessarily require being an idiot or a sheep, it's just one of those inherently s*** parts of human nature(or societal conditioning more likely) that can overtake one if their "eye is not on the ball".

I have been at a loss to understand intelligent people buying into the political system. I have a few friends who are absolutely rigid about being democrat or republican—intelligent people—who insist upon "other" party being wrong or bad, and defend their own party. It's mind-boggling to me and seemingly useless to engage with. I agree 100% that it is divisive, which seems self-evident.

And also the idea of buying into any official narrative at this point about anything. (Perhaps this is only a feature of the U.S.—I don't live anywhere else so I can't say how things are in Europe or the USSR or any other country, as what I hear about those areas is hearsay and I don't trust the media at all with any truths.) Because here, our government, large corporations such as Monsanto, orgs such as AMA/big pharma/insurance companies are so obviously corrupted (to the point of almost being cartoon-like) how can anyone have any trust in any of it?

[unity100]

I was just commenting that the Soviet system was, among other things, resoundingly corrupt (not unlike comparable Western governmental systems).

Thats also false, and it descends from Cold War Anglosphere propaganda.

What is 'corrupt'...

A state/public official, using the power s/he has been given by the people to serve them, to enrich himself or herself instead. That's the definition of corruption used in Anglosphere propaganda.

Yet, when you check Eastern Bloc countries, you see majority of the administration members living slightly better than their compatriots. If a citizen would gain rights to a car in X years, an official gets a slightly better car in Y years. That's the extent of 'privilege' in such societies.

Or, officials were able to access caviar and champagne whereas the people had to... well, eat other types of meat/fish and drink wine.

What a propaganda failure on part of Anglosphere establishment - the moment you get to the bottom of it:

So, the people in Eastern Bloc were eating slightly worse than their public officials, but yet they were still eating and eating well.

In contrast, behold the below picture:

http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/30/tamara-ecc...r-3375162/

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/13/americas...unger.html

That's the 'free' and 'non corrupt' modern capitalist society.

Its not even a public official in the above picture. So there is no corruption. Tamara is just a beneficiary of the corruption.

The actual picture of corruption is much worse, because corruption is totally legalized under the name of 'lobbying'. For it has been legalized - lo and behold, you dont have corruption!

Instead, public officials are appointed from among the private enterprises by representatives and presidents funded to offices of power by the very private enterprises themselves.

Entire US administration is a revolving door. Corporate executives are appointed as regulators responsible with regulating the very corporations they come from. And then they go back to those corporations when administration's term ends.

http://legacy.buzzflash.com/commentary/i...deductible

https://www.citizen.org/article/slowing-...ving-door/

That's how you end up with food companies being able to call pink unknown goo 'food', healthcare companies get away with denying healthcare and many more.

And that enables your average Wall Street broker to be able to pop $10k champagne every night. The excess of the actual owners of the system is well known - from the above case of Tamara to Bezos' mansion with 28 toilets...

That's corruption. But you legalize it and you dont talk about it, and voila - you dont have it.

You talk about what minor problem exists in others' societies instead.

Corruption exists in such societies because corruption is a crime in such societies and it is undesirable. If they just legalized it like US did, corruption would not exist then.

I have been at a loss to understand intelligent people buying into the political system. I have a few friends who are absolutely rigid about being democrat or republican—intelligent people—who insist upon "other" party being wrong or bad, and defend their own party. It's mind-boggling to me and seemingly useless to engage with. I agree 100% that it is divisive, which seems self-evident.

Part of it is due to the necessity to keep the "just world" fallacy so that they can continue functioning in the society by believing that it is a fair and acceptable society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

Otherwise they would feel helpless in the face of a society that was unjust and they would have problems to function.

And some part of it is just because some people are sufficiently selfish. They would not directly admit that they are ok with prospering at the expense of their fellow people, so they rationalize/justify it through the means available in the modern system's narrative.

Case in point: The lobbyists, shareholders, politicians who justify the current murderous healthcare in US as 'choice'. Of course, denial and lying are also involved.

[Sacred Fool]

I was just commenting  that the Soviet system was, among other things, resoundingly corrupt (not unlike comparable Western governmental systems).

Thats also false, and it descends from Cold War Anglosphere propaganda.

What is 'corrupt'...

A state/public official, using the power s/he has been given by the people to serve them, to enrich himself or herself instead. That's the definition of corruption used in Anglosphere propaganda.

That's absurd.  This is one small example.

MOSCOW —
A five-year investigation has uncovered bribery and corruption that cost the Uzbekistan Soviet Republic at least $6.5 billion and involved high-ranking officials including the son-in-law of the late Soviet leader Leonid I. Brezhnev, Pravda said Saturday.

The official Communist Party newspaper said the corruption was institutionalized, and that involved officials and millionaire entrepreneurs in the Central Asian republic hired bodyguards and bought police protection.

I admire your ardor for the topic.  I don't understand the context of your distortions.  Zillions of citizens were held at near poverty wages and lifestyles (to the extent that defectors were imprisoned or worse), yet abundant riches were harvested in arms manufacturing, resource extraction, etc.  Where do think all that money went?  Brezhnev was hardly the only one on the take in Eastern Bloc.

  

[aneelley]

So is it the Trump attendees you believe are causing the disharmony or the protesters?

Oklahoma has had over 20 earthquakes this year over 3.0 which is down from the hundreds a year they had in 2017-2018. Events like this caused by disharmony tend to be a lagging indicator. The earthquakes are almost entirely caused by underground wastewater disposal.

For there to be a physical effect, a susceptibility to that effect must be present in the region already. Tens of thousands of white supremacists screaming red with anger could not cause a quake in Himalayas, for example. It is natural that this would happen in a region with more propensity.

Second, space/time follows time/space. Its not the other way around. So, before the rally physically happened, its time/space counterpart was already happening and its impact already was there for some time after the rally. All this, before the fact that all kinds of energies have flowed to the region due to the attention that started from weeks earlier.

If you are implying that the cause of the disharmony is a large group of Trump supporters getting together then I suggest you rethink your own biases or even attend a rally yourself before judging entire groups of people.

Attending a physical rally is not needed to see the hate and discrimination in a group's talking points and views. Trump supporters, or American ultra conservatives, are not the first social group on the planet who have such hate based thoughts and feelings. But, indeed, they are one of the most blatant.

Its amazing that people can still think that a group who rails against everybody, everything, everyone, a group which is easily induced to hate and treat this or that internal or external group as enemies, are not hate based or negative.

If I were to go looking for disharmony in our recent history, I think that I would instead look for, oh I don’t know, murder, beatings, looting, riots, armed fanatics setting up autonomous fiefdoms and segregating each other based on race, that sort of thing. But I haven’t checked the newspapers lately so I couldn’t tell you who has been doing the lion’s share of that recently; maybe someone else can jump in and tell us.

If the society leaves people to starve in the middle of an economic crisis based on 'free market' ideals - like how US did -  people wont sit and watch their family and children starve to protect corporate property rights. They will make sure their children get food. White, black, latino - whichever segment they may be from, as we have seen from videos of looting.

And some parts of your statements does not even make sense - 'murder'? Who are the anarchists, protesters or blacks killing? They are the ones being killed. Amazingly, the killers are upset that they are being criticized, and they are objecting like 5 year old sociopathic children to the criticism they receive. Some even resign in protest.

Donald Thump is so easy to diss but I myself look at it like he is nobody to me personally. To see people so obsessed with him on both aisles just reminds me of a speech I remember in Sahaja Yoga where it's stated that being a left or right winger means you aren't looking at the middle path which is finding people who practice your spirituality so your community of peace and truth-seekers grows in strength. This is what L/L Research in a sense says with a lot of the Q'uo readings.

There is no such 'middle path' as advertised in modern political spectrum. That middle path, is actually the center-right path. Aka the neoliberal path. The path which US has followed since 1990s, bringing its entire society to this point. Where people are hungry, unemployed as stock market inflates. With that path only being enabled on the backs of white supremacist segments, whose thinly veiled racism just has exploded in the past few years, now manifesting without any pretense. One thing that is going on for the (now) ultra right in US, is that they just want to go back to late 19th century capitalism coupled with medieval religious zealotry without any pretense. They are honest, at least.

Spiritually, there is no middle path starting from late 3rd. There is the positive and there is the negative. This does not change until early-mid 6th density, where it returns to positive path.

I'm not into politics like when I was fresh out of high school, and I agree that a lot on the left, especially the very far left, are totally authoritarian. The far left and far right are more similar to one another than either is to the middle.

Far left is obligatory anarchists per political science. Marxist-Leninist (aka Stalinist) formats are war-time, extraordinary formats. Incidentally, every single country on the planet - including those countries which claim to be leaders of freedom and democracy - have laws and rules which allow them to effect the exact same authoritarian system as Marxist-Leninism if the existence of their society is threatened. They are called war-time powers, extraordinary powers, national security laws and the like. A New York court just suspended habeas corpus a few weeks ago, for example. Just like that.

Let's remember, before they became a bunch of hypocritical cry-bullies who'd rather bash white kids for wearing "Indian" costumes on Halloween than actually support Native Americans against oil companies encroaching on their land... that the "left" was responsible for passing things like the clean air and water act, without which we'd be way more f***** than we are now environmentally and from a health standpoint.

Progressivism is not left. Left is not progressivism. They may easily exist in the same political grouping without conflict. But they are not the same. Left/right divide is mainly economical.

Throwing a tantrum over perceived potential offenses towards a group is much better than the lack of it.

Ra and other 6d groups built pyramids and other buildings by rock which wanted to be shaped, taking into account the desires of the rock being shaped. They did not take random rocks from wherever and just built those buildings. They chose the rocks which wanted to be shaped, and the shaping was done by asking the rock to shape. Not by shaping them themselves.

The end of positive path is that delicate and considerate towards the sentiments/desires of all things, and you think some people being sensitive about a group's feelings is something too much?

Its hard to understand what do some of you think positive path is...

I'm so glad you are attempting to clarify the terribly negatively distorted viewpoints of these very negatively polarized "entities" on this forum. As you have now witnessed no doubt for yourself, it is extremely difficult to get through to those that are so far into the void of darkness and away from the incoming streaming light of love and wisdom as to make many of us just want to throw up their hands and say to themselves "I give up!" or "why bother". But, like myself, I believe you are one of those special Earthly inhabitants like MOST on planet Earth, that care enough to continue to think for themselves, and to call out injustice where it is thrown in our collective faces. This whole right wing nonsense that we have been witnessing around the world for years now, is becoming part of the end result of a carefully crafted global message of negativity and yes, hate, of "the other", of those that are different than the ones in power. Need I mention exactly the description of what "those in power" represents here? I think not. It is glaringly obvious and sometimes, what is glaringly obvious, is also TRUE. The "great orange one" squatting in the people's White House at this time is nothing more than a buffoon and a tool of the right. Yet, still deserves our extreme assistance in helping him to change towards positive polarity and towards the light of truth and love. Will this happen? This is anyone's guess. We all collectively can try to send love and light in this being's direction is all that I can say. However, it appears that time is running out faster and faster for this entity who has completely distorted the messages and teachings of what is right and wrong that it would indeed be a miracle for him to awaken to his inner (way down deep deep deep) self that part that was born of the light and love of the creator in infinity by say election day 2020. So, instead of wasting energy and thought on that almost impossible errand, I believe it is more effective to constantly work on getting the truth about the definitions of various current issues and sayings and correct a very distorted right wing and even main stream media assisted message about such things as antifa (anti fascist), Black lives matter, and other well meaning and well known and well intended organizations. Yes THESE are the good organizations which are actually doing the very hard work of educating the masses including those just sitting on the sidelines of history, by yearning to move forward in the evolution of our planet and our species. On the so called "right" and the terribly distorted messages of the evangelical so-called "Christians" we have the current American leader who insists on just the opposite (of everything good and decent which includes everything loving and light filled) and has been constantly agitating well meaning people that believe as we all do on the awakening spiritual side of our human condition in what is right and just to ALL and what is fair to ALL, not just the privileged few and those of the correct "color" (or lack thereof) of their male skin. So, we must continue to fight this battle between positive and negative polarity and make "the choice" as clear as possible to these lost souls. If not, it will only extend the time farther and farther into the future until we as all humans are harvested, to use Ra's terminology, into fourth density and the next level. That level having already being reached by planet Earth approximately 10 years ago. This difference between the time Earth graduated and when our species will eventually graduate upwards indicates just how far we have to go to enlighten and awaken a majority of planet Earth's inhabitants towards positive polarity in order to fully achieve fourth density. Oddly enough, even on this blog site there are those negative entities that are trying to distort the message of love and light and the Law of One to suit their own desires (service to self) instead of the good or positive polarity to work towards and that being service to others and to self at the same time with a powerful yearning to serve others and help them along the path to the next density. Yes, we of positive awakening and light and love have our work cut out for us. But, my argument here is simply to stay focused on that one message of positive polarity and to attempt as much as possible to help these lost souls awaken to light and love, instead of the vile negativity heard and also seen at these hate filled rallies being held at every turn and are increasing more and more as we approach that most sacred of American celebrations of Democracy known as election day. Yes, there will be a reckoning, but it is those of the negative polarization that will suffer in the end. It will no doubt take many many incarnations back into third density for these souls to learn from experience why their choices in this lifetime towards darkness and hate further delayed our evolution and caused so much more suffering and sorrow, instead of the path back to the one infinite creator only gotten to by being positively polarized in service to others. As is their way and because no doubt their egos are much larger than any of those on the side of love and light, I can predict extreme criticism on this forum by several well known bloggers once I hit the "Post Reply" button below.

[flofrog]

Just a little thought on Russia.

Being originally born in France i have had a few friends initially born in Russia, as a matter of fact two writers, both now not alive on Earth anymore. Both while recognizing that some good came out from the revolution in 1917, it came to immense losses with prisoners camps and elimination of any rebelling against central power, plus an incredible system of surveillance and spying on neighbors, giving anyone away as suspicious, practices not known as conducive to peace of mind and a sense of inner freedom.

From these two, their views on the fall of the Berlin wall and subsequent events did not so much as create a new corruption as mainly providing to the previous elites the means to continue the previous corruption, and unfortunately solidifying their power.

The one benefit they used to talk about was the relative indépendance of satellite countries which were included in the previous USSR.

Also they were both very adamant about the majority of Russian people totally able to see through the official propaganda and exacerbating in fact their deep sense of humor....

Just a small perspective from those two writers who were quite wonderful with their gift for writing, and whom I was lucky to become friends with.

[Diana]

Thank you Flofrog for that point of view of Russia from actual Russians.

[Diana]

Ra and other 6d groups built pyramids and other buildings by rock which wanted to be shaped, taking into account the desires of the rock being shaped. They did not take random rocks from wherever and just built those buildings. They chose the rocks which wanted to be shaped, and the shaping was done by asking the rock to shape. Not by shaping them themselves.

This reminds me of a huge palo verde tree in my front yard. There is a saguaro cactus about 20 feet tall growing close to it. The palo verde has been encroaching on the cactus for months, and I have been concerned. Recently, I felt it was time I had to do something about it, but I was also concerned for the palo verde because it was spring and the tree was blooming. I follow the advice of Findhorn and don't trim anything when it is blooming. I noticed for the very first time that the cactus had bloomed as well.

Three days ago, the very branch of the tree encroaching on the cactus broke off (not completely, but the weight of it pulled that part of the tree down which was growing into the cactus). This branch was huge, and very green—not dead—with many branches extending from the main one that broke. The tree itself is roughly symmetrical and was not heavier where the branch broke off. We were able to carefully cut the fallen branch piece by piece away from the tree, the cactus, and other plant life under the tree.

I think the tree did this. I can't know exactly why—maybe the tree was aware of my concern, maybe it was aware that the cactus was being hurt—but I am sure it was the tree.

[flofrog]

I am sure it was the tree too Diana... isn’t Findhorn the best guide ever

[Diana]

I am sure it was the tree too Diana...  isn’t Findhorn the best guide ever

Yes. I read their story many years ago. It is truly amazing. Human beings tend to separate themselves not only from each other, but from all the other beings present here with us. Which is why, I think, Findhorn was so successful, because they worked with and respected other life forms.