Are STS individuals narcissists?

[Sena]

For the purpose of this discussion I distinguish individuals with narcissistic traits from those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). NPD is a psychiatric diagnosis, and is generally applied to people who have run into serious problems in their life. I found an article which describes narcissistic individuals who are quite successful, perhaps because they practise 5% STO:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/31/study-na...essed.html

Narcissistic personality traits — such as grandiosity, superiority and entitlement — have been on the rise in recent years, especially among high-profile leaders and successful CEOs. Although narcissists can be challenging to work with, they can easily attract a following of people, are more likely to receive promotions and often get paid more.

In fact, people who have high levels of narcissism also tend to be mentally tougher and have lower rates of depression and stress than their humbler peers, according to new studies out of Queen’s University Belfast.

That’s because many people with narcissistic traits are driven by the belief that they deserve the best in life.

“In their attempt to gain access to the resources that they think they deserve, [they] face many challenges,” Kostas Papageorgiou, study author tells CNBC Make It. “Overcoming these challenges may help them build their mental toughness.”

For the study, researchers surveyed more than 700 adults who exhibited clinical or “normal” levels of narcissism (which is different from having narcissistic personality disorder) and asked them about narcissism and mental toughness. Researchers also classified narcissism into two broad categories: “grandiose narcissism,” which is characterized by exhibitionism and dominance, and “vulnerable narcissism,” which is associated with negativity and distrust.

All of the evidence showed that grandiose narcissism tended to be correlated with traits that help you succeed, such as mental toughness, confidence and goal-orientation. And the confidence and sense of accomplishment that people exhibiting grandiose narcissism gained seemed to offset any negative feelings of stress and depression that those traits might otherwise cause.

“Grandiose narcissism appears to correlate positively with healthy self-esteem and extroversion,” Papageorgiou says. These types of narcissists tend to be very confident, which is a good thing. (A vulnerable narcissist, on the other hand, might be overly sensitive.) A grandiose narcissist might not consider other people’s opinions, which can help them focus on a goal, he adds.

“Certainly, healthy self-esteem is the way to go in most social situations,” says Papageorgiou, but acting in narcissistic ways, like prioritizing yourself to further your own status and get ahead “may be more effective when facing a real challenge,” he says.

Of course, narcissism also has negative consquences: Other research suggests that narcissists are destructive and volatile, especially in positions of power.

“We need to be able to dominate our personality instead of letting it dominate us,” Papageorgiou says. “This is when problems emerge.”

In truth, everyone has a little bit of narcissism in them, Papageorgiou says, and that doesn’t have to be a bad thing.

“People are trying to adapt, survive and succeed in a social, political and economic environment that promotes the ‘self-made’ man or woman,” and he believes his findings could reduce some of the pressure and negativity that comes with being seen as a narcissist.

In order to really succeed, though, narcissists also have to be competent, and have the humility to know when they need to adjust their behavior, Papageorgiou says. “An incompetent narcissist won’t go far in the workplace or life,” he says.

The original research article is quite long, and I have only glanced through it:

http://eprints.hud.ac.uk/id/eprint/32992...its_R2.pdf

Here is a quote from the introduction:

Mental Toughness (MT) is an umbrella term that entails positive psychological resources,
which are important across a range of achievement contexts (Clough, Earle, & Sewell, 2002).
The Dark Triad of personality (DT) includes the traits of subclinical narcissism, subclinical
psychopathy and Machiavellianism (Paulhus & Williams, 2002). The current study tested
directly the relationship between all four traits in a large adult sample; and a statistical model,
which suggests that subclinical narcissism will exert negative—rather than positive—effects on
both subclinical psychopathy and Machiavellianism, when MT is included in the model as a
mediator.

That article refers to the "Dark Triad of personality", and more details on that are to be found here:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10....&id=438704

This last article is quite an interesting one, and here is an extract:

The Light Triad was positively correlated with Oneness Experiences and God Experiences, and these correlations remained significant even after controlling for the facets of Agreeableness and Honesty-Humility. The Dark Triad was also positively correlated with Oneness Experiences, and this correlation remained significant even after controlling for the facets of Agreeableness and Honesty-Humility. The Dark Triad was uncorrelated with God Experiences.

In terms of death transcendence, the Light Triad was positively correlated with nature and biosocial forms of death transcendence. After controlling for the facets of Agreeableness, the Light Triad was correlated with nature but was no longer correlated with the biosocial route to death transcendence. In contrast, the Dark Triad was positively correlated with religious and creative forms of death transcendence, and negatively correlated with nature as a route to death transcendence.

This last statement implies that a highly STS individual could become a prominent religious personality like a Roman Catholic Cardinal or an Eastern "guru".

[tadeus]

Are STS individuals narcissists?

This is a really good question.

Narcissism is the pursuit of gratification from vanity or egotistic admiration of one's idealised self-image and attributes. The term originated from Greek mythology, where a young man named Narcissus fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water.

There is directly the question: What is the difference between narcissism and self-love ?

I would say that a 'normal' narcissism is a healthy self-love.
It differs from that is called a narcissistic personality disorder.

Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:

   Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
   Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
   Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
   Exaggerate achievements and talents
   Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
   Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
   Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
   Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
   Take advantage of others to get what they want
   Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
   Be envious of others and believe others envy them
   Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
   Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office

At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

   Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
   Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
   React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
   Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
   Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
   Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
   Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation

This sounds much more like STS.

[unity100]

Yes, the negatively polarized entity must be increasingly be what is called narcissist, or with better term, selfish, in order to polarize.

NPD as a disorder is not a direct indicator or prerequisite of being negatively polarized. It may exist with or without negative polarization. Though it may be useful to a negatively polarizing entity.

[Margan]

You might also be interested in this thread:
https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...ociopathic
I do believe there are similarities between narcissism and sociopathy, although there are also differences

[Anders]

I guess service-to-self is similar to narcissism. But there can be degrees of STS as I see it. If I have a very narrow sense of self, then that's more similar to narcissism than if I have a more inclusive sense of self that at least includes some other people and groups.

Also, there can be narcissists with a very polished facade of acting service-to-others. One approach is to start from STS and then expand the inclusion of others as the self. Then there is less risk of developing a fake facade of altruism. And when everybody is included as the Self, then it becomes service-to-others!

[jafar]

Yes narcissistic behavior, ie: thinking that one limited self is superior / above the other selves is among the key characteristic of STS. As those behavior requires a strong mindset of separation.

The limited self then can be extended socially, thing that one group of identity is superior / above the other group of identities. Let's dubbed this social narcissistic behavior. We are superior/above than them.

Next inquiry to probe is why? why such behavior exist?

Usually it was triggered by a sense of 'inferiority'.
When one limited self feels that it is inferior in comparation to other which he/she/it sees as 'superior', a balancing act of 'feeling superior' will be required to 'null' it out. I/We might be inferior compared to X, but I/We are superior compared to Y.
Because I/We put somebody else on the higher pedestal, I/We must put somebody else on the lower pedestal. Thus forming a 'hierarchy'. There are tons of example for this.



Thus I might disagree that 'narcissism' / 'superior complex' is an act of 'self love' although at a glance it seems to be an act of 'loving the self'. Because 'self love' supposedly be defined as truly accepting the self regardless of it's condition, a.k.a unconditional love towards the self. Narcissism / superior complex is actually an act of 'self hate'.

[flofrog]

That is excellent, IMHO, Jafar.... So agree about the self hate of narcissists.. so sad.