An "Idiot's Guide to Self-Realization", (or), How To Overcome Intellectualism.

[Ming the Merciful]

This is a criticism, (in a not-so-critical way). Or, perhaps this is a good opportunity to teach, (instead participating). What I see here is a problem. I can appreciate people are trying to learn from the "Awakening", and there are many viewpoints and opinions into discovering Spirituality. I had an opportunity which few people have, in that I studied under a Zen Master, and learned the practicalities of understanding, (and comprehending), Spirituality. Most people can only comprehend Spirituality Intellectually, (which is not all bad). However, perhaps this is an opportunity to teach people to learn Spirituality Intuitively. Or, the "Art of Learning in No-Mind". The Zen. Not that I am saying that is the only way, (but), it is a step in another direction. Looking at Spirituality from another perspective. Intellectualism can sometimes be an obstruction because when we learn to observe in "Higher Consciousness" and in the Higher States of Awareness. Becoming the "Observer" and not the "Participant". Then Spiritual Understanding become more clear. You can only look into a pond when there are no waves blown by the wind. [DON'T FORGET TO VOTE].

[sillypumpkins]

i think it's kinda funny when people describe themselves as "spiritual" or they "try and live a spiritual" life (not saying you do this ming, just made me think of this).... it's funny to me because, are we not, that? are we not already doing that? what is a "spiritual" life? what is "spirituality?" it feels like any idea we can potentially conceive of what "spirituality" is, will always fall short.........

so i find the question sort of hard to answer....

[Ming the Merciful]

i think it's kinda funny when people describe themselves as "spiritual" or they "try and live a spiritual" life (not saying you do this ming, just made me think of this).... it's funny to me because, are we not, that? are we not already doing that? what is a "spiritual" life? what is "spirituality?" it feels like any idea we can potentially conceive of what "spirituality" is, will always fall short.........

so i find the question sort of hard to answer....

What I am saying is, when we are looking at "Spirituality", we are not using our full potential. Only observing in Intellectual Mind is limited because it is a lower state of Consciousness. When we use Intuitive Mind, we are seeing it from a Higher Consciousness. A different perspective. We are all Spiritual, except it is what is perceived. What I am trying to do, is show people there is something that can lead to a Higher Spiritual Understanding.

[sillypumpkins]

so, you're saying that often times when we look at "spirituality" we tend to think of it intellectually, and what you're trying to do is show people that there's another way to look at it, that is, intuitively?

if so....... i dig it

[Patrick]

It can be very simple if one so chooses.

[Ming the Merciful]

so, you're saying that often times when we look at "spirituality" we tend to think of it intellectually, and what you're trying to do is show people that there's another way to look at it, that is, intuitively?

if so....... i dig it

Correct. The majority of people when they try to understand Spirituality, only do it in Intellectual Mind. Most of the conversations here are Intellectual. What I want to show people, there is another way. What is the other way? Instead of analysing with just intellect, allow yourself to go into Still Mind, (into silent Mind), and allow the Knowledge to come to you. After a lot of practice, Still Mind becomes more natural than the active Mind. I spend as much time in Still Mind, as in active Mind. What is Still Mind? Simple. You stop thinking.

[Ming the Merciful]

It can be very simple if one so choses.

It can be simple if one chooses. Patrick, you hit the nail on the head. When we observe Spirituality from the Intellect, it makes it more complicated. What happens, we reach a conclusion on a particular point, and then the Mind reviews the point, over and over. By observing in the Mindless State, the conclusion is easier to find and understood.

[sillypumpkins]

ming you might be interested in a thread that Sacred Fool made a while back: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...ight=faith

what would this forum look like without all the "intellectual conversations" i wonder?

[Ming the Merciful]

ming you might be interested in a thread that Sacred Fool made a while back: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...ight=faith

what would this forum look like without all the "intellectual conversations" i wonder?

Thank you I will look into that more deeply. Here, (where I live), it is getting late. At this moment I am downloading a Moroccan Devotional Music video, (man is it good). The point is, when it finishes I am going to bed. I get "High" on Middle Eastern and Arabic Devotional music. I am as far away from Arabic as you can get, (and yet), it is close to me. Past life memories possibly? I know I cannot hear enough. I only discovered it a week ago. That and Qawwali.

[Patrick]

...what would this forum look like without all the "intellectual conversations" i wonder?

[zedro]

...what would this forum look like without all the "intellectual conversations" i wonder?

Would this be the antithesis, or the complementary?

[flofrog]

complementary in the world of Ra ?   ?


1.1

In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.

[zedro]

complementary in the world of Ra ?   ?


1.1

In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.

In the world of Ra, I think that image would represent "Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator" vs "Orion Federation”, but only because they kept the metaphysical playing field in a very narrow narrative.

[unity100]

There is no conflict in between mind, body and the spirit. Each of them must be sufficiently developed, connected enough and must be used enough to make any spiritual advancement.

Most of the conversations here are Intellectual

A lot of the conversations here try to discover the mysteries of existence. Not uncover the secret zen of 'just being'. That kind of being is specific to every person and it is questionable that it can be taught.

There is the additional complication that this planet's social/individual distortions being too complicated, in relation to self and other selves - as Ra mentions. This necessitates looking at things with a sharp clear mind. For, you see, there are even people who believe in two contradictory things at the same time and propose them in two parts of the same sentence, seeing no problem with doing that. Without even getting into the immense mess of lies and disinformation that is propagated for profit or belief.

So, even to untangle the mess of the societal complex at its surface and look at things from a simpler perspective of entities' interactions based on fundamental motives, noticeable understanding is needed.

Of course, one can spend many lifetimes without paying attention and then suddenly one day during one incarnation everything may fall into place. But that's not an efficient way to do things. Only efficient for the entity which is very suitable for that kind of path.

And the society is passing through a very difficult time in which people are distressed, needing food, housing, healthcare - the very basic needs. Those wont get solved via zen and 'being'. For even reaching for middle chakras, lower chakras must be safe and functioning.

...

Moreover - some of us want to be looking through the window and taking in all the sights during our journey. Not looking towards the seat in the front and suddenly waking up at the destination.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

It can be very simple if one so chooses.

Someone needs to help me on this one! I do not see how walking the straight and narrow path is "easy".
Sure, we can turn the Will toward our desires to become but, we are not alone on this planet; there are others that provide cruel catalyst.
I guess if one to only say continuously, "this is only but a dream" and repeat that every second on the hour until your backside hits the coffin, it would be nothing but a blissful dream.
You have some esplainin' ta do Lucy....seriously.

[Patrick]

It can be very simple if one so chooses.

Someone needs to help me on this one! I do not see how walking the straight and narrow path is "easy".
Sure, we can turn the Will toward our desires to become but, we are not alone on this planet; there are others that provide cruel catalyst.
I guess if one to only say continuously, "this is only but a dream" and repeat that every second on the hour until your backside hits the coffin, it would be nothing but a blissful dream.
You have some esplainin' ta do Lucy....seriously.

I think we could start from Ra's poker game.  If we discuss the parts you find are difficult to manifest?

50.7 Questioner: Thank you. Can you expand on the concept which is this: that it is necessary for an entity to, during incarnation in the physical as we call it, become polarized or interact properly with other entities and why this isn’t possible in between incarnations when he is aware of what he wants to do, but why must he come into an incarnation and lose memory, conscious memory of what he wants to do and then act in a way that he hopes to act? Could you expand on that please?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us give the example of the man who sees all the poker hands. He then knows the game. It is but child’s play to gamble, for it is no risk. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known and the hand will be played correctly but with no interest.

In time/space and in the true-color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction.

Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin — and we stress begin — to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.

You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love; can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit beingness totality.

[Ming the Merciful]

...what would this forum look like without all the "intellectual conversations" i wonder?

Would this be the antithesis, or the complementary?

I happen to like the image below. That is so cool.  All think twice, another day in Paradise, (Phil Collins). Where do I go to get my reservation? All the travel agents are closed, and there are hardly any flights. A return flight to Schiphol Airport Please. I will keep you guessing that one. What? Schiphol Airport. I am taking a survey here? In which country is Schiphol Airport located? It happens to be my favourite airport.

And no cheating by looking on the Internet.

[Patrick]

Would this be the antithesis, or the complementary?

Complementary. It's all the same Creation.

[flofrog]

Sweden Ming ?

[Daze]

There is no conflict in between mind, body and the spirit. Each of them must be sufficiently developed, connected enough and must be used enough to make any spiritual advancement.

Most of the conversations here are Intellectual

A lot of the conversations here try to discover the mysteries of existence. Not uncover the secret zen of 'just being'. That kind of being is specific to every person and it is questionable that it can be taught.

There is the additional complication that this planet's social/individual distortions being too complicated, in relation to self and other selves - as Ra mentions. This necessitates looking at things with a sharp clear mind. For, you see, there are even people who believe in two contradictory things at the same time and propose them in two parts of the same sentence, seeing no problem with doing that. Without even getting into the immense mess of lies and disinformation that is propagated for profit or belief.

So, even to untangle the mess of the societal complex at its surface and look at things from a simpler perspective of entities' interactions based on fundamental motives, noticeable understanding is needed.

Of course, one can spend many lifetimes without paying attention and then suddenly one day during one incarnation everything may fall into place. But that's not an efficient way to do things. Only efficient for the entity which is very suitable for that kind of path.

And the society is passing through a very difficult time in which people are distressed, needing food, housing, healthcare - the very basic needs. Those wont get solved via zen and 'being'. For even reaching for middle chakras, lower chakras must be safe and functioning.

...

Moreover - some of us want to be looking through the window and taking in all the sights during our journey. Not looking towards the seat in the front and suddenly waking up at the destination.

In my experience, 'being' is not in any way counter productive towards dealing with the very visceral experiences of pain and fear that others experience due to food, shelter, and health insecurity. Nor do I think it's not a valid avenue for consideration of these issues. 'Just being' does not mean one just melts into the chair and some blank space upon an empty wall and become a useless vegetable which is blind to the needs of others. I find that when I am able to trust myself enough to release my attachment to my own intellectualization, that 'just being' offers the opportunity to look upon the insecurities and the fears and the pains of the world with a creative openness and in concert with the intellect. In so doing, there is the ability to address these issues in flexible ways so that others may indeed be fed, feel safe, and be healthy.

[Ming the Merciful]

There is no conflict in between mind, body and the spirit. Each of them must be sufficiently developed, connected enough and must be used enough to make any spiritual advancement.

Most of the conversations here are Intellectual

A lot of the conversations here try to discover the mysteries of existence. Not uncover the secret zen of 'just being'. That kind of being is specific to every person and it is questionable that it can be taught.

There is the additional complication that this planet's social/individual distortions being too complicated, in relation to self and other selves - as Ra mentions. This necessitates looking at things with a sharp clear mind. For, you see, there are even people who believe in two contradictory things at the same time and propose them in two parts of the same sentence, seeing no problem with doing that. Without even getting into the immense mess of lies and disinformation that is propagated for profit or belief.

So, even to untangle the mess of the societal complex at its surface and look at things from a simpler perspective of entities' interactions based on fundamental motives, noticeable understanding is needed.

Of course, one can spend many lifetimes without paying attention and then suddenly one day during one incarnation everything may fall into place. But that's not an efficient way to do things. Only efficient for the entity which is very suitable for that kind of path.

And the society is passing through a very difficult time in which people are distressed, needing food, housing, healthcare - the very basic needs. Those wont get solved via zen and 'being'. For even reaching for middle chakras, lower chakras must be safe and functioning.

...

Moreover - some of us want to be looking through the window and taking in all the sights during our journey. Not looking towards the seat in the front and suddenly waking up at the destination.

In my experience, 'being' is not in any way counter productive towards dealing with the very visceral experiences of pain and fear that others experience due to food, shelter, and health insecurity. Nor do I think it's not a valid avenue for consideration of these issues. 'Just being' does not mean one just melts into the chair and some blank space upon an empty wall and become a useless vegetable which is blind to the needs of others. I find that when I am able to trust myself enough to release my attachment to my own intellectualization, that 'just being' offers the opportunity to look upon the insecurities and the fears and the pains of the world with a creative openness and in concert with the intellect. In so doing, there is the ability to address these issues in flexible ways so that others may indeed be fed, feel safe, and be healthy.

When you are in "Still Mind", it is not a "Vegetable State". If anything, you are more alive because of Raised Awareness. The "Art of Just Being". Knowing yourself. It is impossible to illustrate to you, unless you experience it yourself. The average person is in a state of Intellectual Awareness, and is totally unaware of Intuitive Mind. The Intuitive Mind is only functional when Intellectual Mind is still. Also within Intuitive Mind, you become aware of Subconscious Mind. You can hear the thought, (before the thought).That too can be guided. In Meditation there a term called "Samadhi", where all three phases of the Mind are still. Total Bliss. I am not here to convert you, (but), can you imagine what it is like to have total stillness within yourself? That can only be experienced alone. I have practiced Zen Meditation for thirty years, and there is a point where, (through training), and practice you can control the different aspect of Mind. It has gotten to the point where I can switch-on or switch-off Still Mind as I want it. If there is nothing to think about. Stop thinking. There is no need for endless thoughts, when there is nothing important to think about. Mind be still. I actually use Still Mind as my Vehicle for Meditation, (instead of Mantras), because it is a better Vehicle. Instant Stillness.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

It can be very simple if one so chooses.

Someone needs to help me on this one! I do not see how walking the straight and narrow path is "easy".
Sure, we can turn the Will toward our desires to become but, we are not alone on this planet; there are others that provide cruel catalyst.
I guess if one to only say continuously, "this is only but a dream" and repeat that every second on the hour until your backside hits the coffin, it would be nothing but a blissful dream.
You have some esplainin' ta do Lucy....seriously.

I think we could start from Ra's poker game.  If we discuss the parts you find are difficult to manifest?

50.7 Questioner: Thank you. Can you expand on the concept which is this: that it is necessary for an entity to, during incarnation in the physical as we call it, become polarized or interact properly with other entities and why this isn’t possible in between incarnations when he is aware of what he wants to do, but why must he come into an incarnation and lose memory, conscious memory of what he wants to do and then act in a way that he hopes to act? Could you expand on that please?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us give the example of the man who sees all the poker hands. He then knows the game. It is but child’s play to gamble, for it is no risk. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known and the hand will be played correctly but with no interest.

In time/space and in the true-color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction.

Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin — and we stress begin — to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.

You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love; can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit beingness totality.

Beautiful quote. One of my favorites but in no way does this sound "simple" it actually sounds difficult but rewarding. The narrow path is not simple. It takes finesse to play the game. First we begin by knowing the game, then we progress to well,now how do I play? As Ra says, it literally is a poker game stretched over a lifetime. A lot of failures and a lot of successes and a ton of limitation.

[Ming the Merciful]

It can be very simple if one so chooses.

Someone needs to help me on this one! I do not see how walking the straight and narrow path is "easy".
Sure, we can turn the Will toward our desires to become but, we are not alone on this planet; there are others that provide cruel catalyst.
I guess if one to only say continuously, "this is only but a dream" and repeat that every second on the hour until your backside hits the coffin, it would be nothing but a blissful dream.
You have some esplainin' ta do Lucy....seriously.

I think we could start from Ra's poker game.  If we discuss the parts you find are difficult to manifest?

50.7 Questioner: Thank you. Can you expand on the concept which is this: that it is necessary for an entity to, during incarnation in the physical as we call it, become polarized or interact properly with other entities and why this isn’t possible in between incarnations when he is aware of what he wants to do, but why must he come into an incarnation and lose memory, conscious memory of what he wants to do and then act in a way that he hopes to act? Could you expand on that please?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us give the example of the man who sees all the poker hands. He then knows the game. It is but child’s play to gamble, for it is no risk. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known and the hand will be played correctly but with no interest.

In time/space and in the true-color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction.

Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin — and we stress begin — to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.

You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love; can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit beingness totality.

Beautiful quote. One of my favorites but in no way does this sound "simple" it actually sounds difficult but rewarding. The narrow path is not simple. It takes finesse to play the game. First we begin by knowing the game, then we progress to well,now how do I play? As Ra says, it literally is a poker game stretched over a lifetime. A lot of failures and a lot of successes and a ton of limitation.

Life is a game, (and it is rigged). When we start the game, we are not given the rules. We have to learn and adapt. Some people are given more chips than others, and sit in a better position on the board. Those in the better position look down on those who are not, and they know they have the advantage. And they use their advantage over the other players and will take every opportunity to advance further. The only way to gain the advantage is by, (either) cheating, (or), winning high stakes. In the background, (unseen ), is an "Artificial Intelligence", manipulating the game. You cannot win until the Artificial Intelligence allows you to win. Those who bribe the "Overlords", (the referees), can sometimes get away with it, as long as the bribe is big. There is also someone looking over your shoulder, passing the information over to those people who have the advantage. Beware of rigged games.

[Patrick]

The simple choice that can be made is to let go of your cards in the melting influence of Love.

This way you don't actually have to play the game anymore. Everything that happens is just ok.

The game is there so you can learn this. So if you just let everything go in faith that all is well even when impossible to see. Then there is no need to play the game anymore. You've just shown it was no longer needed.

Nothing to intellectualize, nothing to understand. Just blind stupid faith that all really is well.

I say thank you to the universe even for getting a headache. I don't know why I needed to suffer it, but thanks nonetheless. I have faith there is a good reason for it and it's ok that I don't understand why.

[Minyatur]

I say thank you to the universe even for getting a headache. I don't know why I needed to suffer it, but thanks nonetheless. I have faith there is a good reason for it and it's ok that I don't understand why.

The Universe: Oh Patrick had just not drank enough water on that day for his bodily complex's needs. But, this is the fourth time he is thankful for having a headache and so maybe some things could be bent a bit so he gets headaches more easily from now on. Feedback is always useful, a lot of people hate those headaches but I can't take them away because they act as signals. This was somewhat unexpected, but it's not any issue to increase the rate of him having headaches if he loves them.

[Ming the Merciful]

Faith is a curse. Or, it is an easy way out, without having to do any work to improve yourself Spiritually. Religions are full of Faith, with little advancement. The simple this and that, and Faith will carry me through to the end. All the work is, (supposedly), done for you. The delusion. As long as I follow the rules, (and lay low), then I will get everything I want in Heaven. Visions of little old Spanish ladies kissing plastic babies in cardboard boxes, (I have seen it). Blind Faith. No thank you. I prefer to do the work, and have the satisfaction that I have done something to improve my life. I also had friends who believed in Faith, and they were the biggest hypocrites in their Religion. Meanwhile condemning others for thinking differently than them. Faith is a weakness. I have no Faith in Zen. What is that supposed to mean? Zen only works when you use it. If I sat back and said, I believed in Zen, and so I will let it do the work for me, then Zen becomes useless. There would be no point in having Zen. If anybody wants to grow Spiritually, then they have to do the work themselves. There is no other answer. It is work, or nothing. I have little sympathy for people who are too lazy to work and find their own Spiritual Realization. The God(s) never promised it would be easy, and you were responsible for your own actions. I repeat, Faith is a curse.

[Patrick]

Well you all got me !

What is unsaid in this "simple" act of letting go, is all the work required to get there in the first place, over eons and many lifetimes.  It sure looks simple, but holy cow !  It's only when you set your intent to achieve that state that the Universe highlights what needs doing.  Seeing all that laid out in front, you say: "F**k it!" and you throw all your cards in disgust (this type of throwing your cards IS much easier to do though ).

Because, we are not the ones that decides we are done with the game.  That which is no longer needed falls away.  Which means that it's the game that lets go of you when it's done with you.

Still, I think it's a beautiful intent to set.  And for the headaches, I do say thank you, but that also includes saying thank you for showing me why it occurs, which I normally get an answer for in due course.  Recently I discovered it was whole peanuts.  I can eat peanut butter without any problem, but whole peanuts causes issues.

Ah well, all in all, this is a great game !  

[Daze]

When you are in "Still Mind", it is not a "Vegetable State". If anything, you are more alive because of Raised Awareness. The "Art of Just Being". Knowing yourself. It is impossible to illustrate to you, unless you experience it yourself. The average person is in a state of Intellectual Awareness, and is totally unaware of Intuitive Mind. The Intuitive Mind is only functional when Intellectual Mind is still. Also within Intuitive Mind, you become aware of Subconscious Mind. You can hear the thought, (before the thought).That too can be guided. In Meditation there a term called "Samadhi", where all three phases of the Mind are still. Total Bliss. I am not here to convert you, (but), can you imagine what it is like to have total stillness within yourself? That can only be experienced alone. I have practiced Zen Meditation for thirty years, and there is a point where, (through training), and practice you can control the different aspect of Mind. It has gotten to the point where I can switch-on or switch-off Still Mind as I want it. If there is nothing to think about. Stop thinking. There is no need for endless thoughts, when there is nothing important to think about. Mind be still. I actually use Still Mind as my Vehicle for Meditation, (instead of Mantras), because it is a better Vehicle. Instant Stillness.

I think I can see how it may have appeared that I was denigrating Zen and Zen practice, but I was simply lumping it together with 'being'.

I agree with you.

[meadow-foreigner]

Maybe.

[Ymarsakar]

I wont throw tarot cards as weapons. Not gambit