Seeing as if 4D

[AnthroHeart]

Is it possible by seeing something with unconditional love that you are understanding it at a 4D level?

Or can we not possibly understand anything 4D or higher while in 3D?

If I think about manifesting some food, that seems like a 4D trait, so probably uses some type of 4D mind.

Otherwise we couldn't perceive anything from the viewpoint of 4D.

[anagogy]

I think we can understand 4D from a 3D level, but the problem is we are not in bodies that facilitate those energies to a high degree.  In the same way that an 2D animal may tap into 3D energies like self awareness, they're aren't in a body with a brain that can really appreciate the subtle nuances of self awareness.  You aren't going to see a cat appreciating poetry for example, or wondering about its place in the cosmos.  In the same way, we can tap into the bare bones energy of green ray, but we don't have a body that allows our consciousness to truly appreciate its finer nuances.

[Jade]

The spirit does not reside in the complexities of the brain. All beings have all possible rays in potentiation.

41.16 Questioner: And then what entity would be the simplest that would have red, orange, yellow, and green activation?

Ra: I am Ra. This information has been covered in a previous session. To perhaps simplify your asking, each center may be seen to be activated potentially in third density, the late second-density entities having the capability, if efficient use is made of experience, of vibrating and activating the green-ray energy center.

The third-density being, having the potential for complete self-awareness, thus has the potential for the minimal activation of all energy centers. The fourth, fifth, and sixth densities are those refining the higher energy centers. The seventh density is a density of completion and the turning towards timelessness or foreverness.

41.17 Questioner: Well, then would an animal in second density have all of the energy centers in some way in its being but just not activated?

Ra: I am Ra. This is precisely correct.

41.18 Questioner: Now, the animal in second density is composed of light as are all things. What I am trying to get at is the relationship between the light that the various bodies of the animal are created of and the relationship of this to the energy centers which are active and the ones which are not active and how this is linked with the Logos. It is a difficult question to ask. Can you give me some kind of answer on that?

Ra: I am Ra. The answer is to redirect your thought processes from any mechanical view of evolution. The will of the Logos posits the potentials available to the evolving entity. The will of the entity as it evolves is the single measure of the rate and fastidiousness of the activation and balancing of the various energy centers.

47.4 Ra: I am Ra. Let us clarify further. As we have previously stated, all beings have the potential for all possible vibratory rates.

[anagogy]

The spirit does not reside in the complexities of the brain. All beings have all possible rays in potentiation.

While I agree with you that the spirit is not limited by the brain, the "mind" is, in fact, still limited by the brain. I like to think of the "spirit" as the relationship between the mind and the body. Or the "integrator" between the subject/object nexus. One can be a sixth density wanderer in spirit, but if you are in a 3rd density body, you are more or less limited to 3rd density patterns of thought. You will still have an "armor of light" as Ra calls it (a bias towards the truth apparent in higher densities), but you will still remain completely the creature of 3rd density.

[Jade]

I disagree. How does a mountain even process catalyst to get to the point of radiating 4th density universal love, if the mind powered by a complex brain is required to ascend vibratory rates?

The "mind" creates the "body", i.e. the brain. I do not think the mind lies within the brain, the "brain" (and all of its perceived expansion/limitation) lies within the mind.

19.1 What I would like to know first is do all entities make a transition from second to third density, or are there some other entities who have never gone through this transition?

Ra: I am Ra. Your question presumes the space/time continuum understandings of the intelligent energy which animates your illusion. Within the context of this illusion we may say that there are some which do not transfer from one particular density to another, for the continuum is finite.

In the understanding which we have of the universe or creation as one infinite being, its heart beating as alive in its own intelligent energy, it merely is one beat of the heart of this intelligence from creation to creation. In this context each and every entity of consciousness has/is/will experienced/experiencing/experience each and every density.

19.2 Questioner: Let’s take the point at which an individualized entity of second density is ready for transition to third. Is this second-density being what we would call animal?

Ra: I am Ra. There are three types of second-density entities which become, shall we say, enspirited. The first is the animal. This is the most predominant. The second is the vegetable, most especially that which you call sound vibration complex “tree.” These entities are capable of giving and receiving enough love to become individualized. The third category is mineral. Occasionally a certain location, place as you may call it, becomes energized to individuality through the love it receives and gives in relationship to a third-density entity which is in relationship to it. This is the least common transition.

19.3 Questioner: When this transition from second to third density takes place, how does the entity, whether it be animal, tree, or mineral, become enspirited?

Ra: I am Ra. Entities do not become enspirited. They become aware of the intelligent energy within each portion, cell, or atom, as you may call it, of its beingness.

This awareness is that which is awareness of that already given. From the infinite come all densities. The self-awareness comes from within given the catalyst of certain experiences understanding, as we may call this particular energy, the upward spiraling of the cell or atom or consciousness.

You may then see that there is an inevitable pull towards the, what you may call, eventual realization of self.

I take the bolded part to mean that an entity does NOT have to incarnate into each density in order to experience the gradual self-awareness that comes from the upward spiraling of the Creator.

[anagogy]

I disagree. How does a mountain even process catalyst to get to the point of radiating 4th density universal love, if the mind powered by a complex brain is required to ascend vibratory rates?

The "mind" creates the "body", i.e. the brain. I do not think the mind lies within the brain, the "brain" (and all of its perceived expansion/limitation) lies within the mind.

Hi Jade, you raise some good questions, I'll give you my take on them:

I didn't say that a complex brain was required to ascend vibratory rates, just that it was required to fully appreciate a given vibratory state.  And I am herein only referring to the space/time structural illusion.  Time/space is a whole other cookie.  I agree with you that the mind creates the body, but from my perspective that is largely done at a subconscious level preincarnatively.  While enmired in the illusion, that faculty is submerged to a great extent, and due to the veil, the body conditions the mind to a large extent while physically incarnate.  We can see this empirically validated by the fact that if someone receives severe brain damage, their mind is very apparently inhibited to some degree in cognitive operation.

And your question about a mountain processing catalyst to the point of radiating 4th density universal love?  I don't believe that it does get to that point in its initial form.  Giving and receiving love doesn't necessarily imply it is a green ray transfer, and while Ra didn't exactly specify, my opinion is that it is not expressing that kind of love.  If a grouping of minerals gains individuality, due to enough 3rd density vibratory energy sent to it from 3rd density entities, I don't think it does much of any 3rd density work in that form, rather, it just becomes "3rd density harvestable" and would then reincarnate in a 3rd density body -- just as a harvestable 2nd density animal would -- so that it could actually appreciate the nuances of the density it just became compatible with.

I take the bolded part to mean that an entity does NOT have to incarnate into each density in order to experience the gradual self-awareness that comes from the upward spiraling of the Creator.

I think incarnation can happen in a multitude of ways.  And 2nd density incarnation is different from 3rd density incarnation, and same goes for 1st density incarnation. You could even say that all consciousness is everywhere at once, and what we call "incarnation" is simply deliberately focusing on some portion of that infinite experiential field. This would tend to agree with Ra's statement that beings don't become enspirited but rather simply become aware of the infinity that is already present in every portion of the creator.

One thing that I have always found perplexing about that section though is it seems to contradict Ra's assertion that progression through densities is sequential.  And also Ra's statement that "no portion of the creator audits the course" which I always interpreted to mean "nobody skips classes".  A collection of minerals gaining sentience is essentially a 1st density beingness skipping 2nd density entirely and going straight to 3rd density.  Either that, or it is passing through 2nd density extraordinarily quickly.  That is definitely something I wish they would have asked additional questions about because I find it most curious. It is an interesting topic of conversation to be sure.

[Jade]

I don't think the first density being skips second density, I believe that they just progress through their second density still incarnate in their first density body complex. "No portion audits the course" is not incongruent to an entity ascending through the densities in a "lower" level body complex. Ra says that it's purely the will of the entity that thrusts it upward, not its ability to appreciate nuance. An 'enspirited' mountain could have been here on earth for millions of years. Are you saying it must somehow be destroyed and reborn anew to progress with the earth through its densities?

In the quotes I bolded in post #3, Ra says that once an entity becomes "third density activated", that they have access to the rest of the rays. You say you don't think it's "that kind of love", but Ra says a second density entity can vibrate in the green-ray center. I'll take Ra's word that, having moved into the yellow-ray portion of their being and thus able to vibrate in the green-ray, that it's even possible for them to vibrate in the indigo center then, as well.

The fact is, humans were genetically altered to be as different as we are from our second density forms. This is not normal. It's typically a gradual progression, which means the line in the sand you are drawing may be slightly skewed.

14.3 Questioner: Then what was the second-density form— what did it look like— that became Earth-man in the third density? What did he look like in the second density?

Ra: I am Ra. The difference between second- and third-density bodily forms would in many cases have been more like one to the other. In the case of your planetary sphere the process was interrupted by those who incarnated here from the planetary sphere you call Mars. They were adjusted by genetic changing and, therefore, there was some difference which was of a very noticeable variety rather than the gradual raising of the bipedal forms upon your second-density level to third-density level. This has nothing to do with the so-called placement of the soul. This has only to do with the circumstances of the influx of those from that culture.

"Appreciating the nuance of the illusion" seems like a bias from your higher-density point of view, where you have chosen this incarnation to experience the intricacies of development in a structured environment. All entities learn at a different pace, and none are limited to their access of the Creator by something as mundane as the manifestation of their body complex in space/time. Is that not what the quote in your signature means?

[anagogy]

I don't think the first density being skips second density, I believe that they just progress through their second density still incarnate in their first density body complex. "No portion audits the course" is not incongruent to an entity ascending through the densities in a "lower" level body complex. Ra says that it's purely the will of the entity that thrusts it upward, not its ability to appreciate nuance. An 'enspirited' mountain could have been here on earth for millions of years. Are you saying it must somehow be destroyed and reborn anew to progress with the earth through its densities?

No the 1st density structure of the mountain is not destroyed, its 3rd density consciousness simply vacates that structure and incarnates in a 3rd density body.

In the quotes I bolded in post #3, Ra says that once an entity becomes "third density activated", that they have access to the rest of the rays. You say you don't think it's "that kind of love", but Ra says a second density entity can vibrate in the green-ray center. I'll take Ra's word that, having moved into the yellow-ray portion of their being and thus able to vibrate in the green-ray, that it's even possible for them to vibrate in the indigo center then, as well.

I think its important  to draw a distinction between possibility and probability.  They might have the "potential" for all vibratory rates, but realistically that won't happen till they have the machinery to properly do 3rd density work.  We all have the "potential" to activate our denser bodies and be like gods, but it almost never happens.  

The fact is, humans were genetically altered to be as different as we are from our second density forms. This is not normal. It's typically a gradual progression, which means the line in the sand you are drawing may be slightly skewed.

Gradual, yes, in evolutionary terms, but most of the differences were likely intended by the Logos.  For example, consider this section where Ra gives their opinions on the 3rd density form:

90.12 Questioner: Was there a reason for choosing the forms that have evolved upon this planet and, if so, what was it?

Ra: I am Ra. We are not entirely sure why our Logos and several neighboring Logoi of approximately the same space/time of flowering chose the bipedal, erect form of the second-density apes to invest. It has been our supposition, which we share with you as long as you are aware that this is mere opinion, that our Logos was interested in, shall we say, further intensifying the veiling process by offering to the third-density form the near complete probability for the development of speech taking complete precedence over concept communication or telepathy. We also have the supposition that the so-called opposable thumb was looked upon as an excellent means of intensifying the veiling process so that rather than rediscovering the powers of the mind the third-density entity would, by the form of its physical manifestation, be drawn to the making, holding, and using of physical tools.

And also consider this section:

19.11 Questioner: Can you tell me how this new bodily complex was suited to third-density lessons and what those lessons were?

Ra: I am Ra. There is one necessity for third density. That necessity is self-awareness, or self-consciousness. In order to be capable of such, this chemical complex of body must be capable of the abstract thought. Thus, the fundamental necessity is the combination of rational and intuitive thinking. This was transitory in the second-density forms operating largely upon intuition which proved through practice to yield results.

The third-density mind was capable of processing information in such a way as to think abstractly and in what could be termed “useless” ways, in the sense of survival. This is the primary requisite.

There are other important ingredients: the necessity for a weaker physical vehicle to encourage the use of the mind, the development of the already present awareness of the social complex. These also being necessary: the further development of physical dexterity in the sense of the hand, as you call this portion of your body complex.

You can see in this section Ra specifically says the chemical body must be capable of abstract thought.  A mind may be 3rd density, but it needs a body that "fits it".  Otherwise it is kind of like wearing a pair of mittens on your hand, as opposed to a regular glove, and trying to type something on a keyboard.  The individual fingers are not allowed to function at full capacity because the structure doesn't allow for that nuanced dexterity.

To be fair, there may be complexity to mineral structures that function like brains and we simply don't understand how they work.  My thinking is maybe some types of crystals could somehow function as rudimentary "brains" in some weird way for these mineral locations that become 3rd density harvestable.  The same is probably true for the vegetable kingdom, albeit something different than crystals.

"Appreciating the nuance of the illusion" seems like a bias from your higher-density point of view, where you have chosen this incarnation to experience the intricacies of development in a structured environment. All entities learn at a different pace, and none are limited to their access of the Creator by something as mundane as the manifestation of their body complex in space/time. Is that not what the quote in your signature means?

Not precisely from my perspective.  Consider another Ra quote:

105.14 Questioner: Then the yellow-ray body, from the very beginning, was designed as what Ra has called an athanor for the mind, a device, you might say, to accelerate the evolution of the mind. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is perhaps more accurate to note that the yellow-ray, physical vehicle is a necessity without which the mind/body/spirit complex cannot pursue evolution at any pace.
[/b]

[Jade]

No the 1st density structure of the mountain is not destroyed, its 3rd density consciousness simply vacates that structure and incarnates in a 3rd density body.

So, a mountain entity would just "vacate" its body? Like, harvest itself, but without death of its body complex? So do you think a walk-in comes and inhabits the shell of a body complex? Or does it sit empty? I just don't think this would happen. If anything, I would think that its incarnation into a human body would continue to be simultaneous with its mineral body, if it wants to incarnate here at harvest.

Ra says a mountain, a tree, and a dog can vibrate in the green ray, and makes no caveat that they must destroy their body complex and reincarnate into another one to experience it. All rays in potentiation. The chains that you are imagining are part of the illusion.

I see a mountain as a macrocosm of a human body. It has many clusters of cells working together into different organs, and has cooperative/parasitic beings that also utilize it. I do not see a mountain as less complex than a human with a brain or fingers. Like you mentioned, it's entirely possible that the veins of metal and crystallized (hint hint) mineral throughout the entity could form into something like a nervous system.

I think its important  to draw a distinction between possibility and probability.  They might have the "potential" for all vibratory rates, but realistically that won't happen till they have the machinery to properly do 3rd density work.  We all have the "potential" to activate our denser bodies and be like gods, but it almost never happens. 

I just think this is a restrictive way of looking at it. We are all the Creator. Any of us can realize it in a moment, and to say "us" refers to just humans is nonsense.

Here is another example of Don trying to get Ra to confirm that an entity must follow a certain pattern of incarnational cycles to harvest. Ra says that ultimately it's the harmonious balance of the energy centers that determines harvestability. And, I think at harvest, that it's probable that many late second density beings are vibrating at higher rates than just the "cap" that you put on them in their form - believing that the late second density requires incarnation into a -human- vehicle to even begin its lessons in third density. I believe that most second density entities with investiture can easily learn/process the first sub-octaves of 3rd density.

48.7 Questioner: Thank you. I would like to take as an example an entity, at birth, who is roughly high on the seniority list for positive polarization and possible harvestability at the end of this cycle and follow a full cycle of his experience starting before his incarnation— which body is activated, process of becoming incarnate, the activation of the third-density physical body, process as the body moves through this density and is acted upon by catalyst, and then the process of death, and the activation of the various bodies so that we make a full circuit from a point prior to incarnation back around through incarnation and death and back to that position you might say in one cycle of incarnation in this density. Could you do that for me?

Ra: I am Ra. Your query is most distorted for it assumes that creations are alike. Each mind/body/spirit complex has its own patterns of activation and its own rhythms of awakening. The important thing for harvest is the harmonious balance between the various energy centers of the mind/body/spirit complex. This is to be noted as of relative import. We grasp the thrust of your query and will make a most general answer stressing the unimportance of such arbitrary generalizations.

You can see in this section Ra specifically says the chemical body must be capable of abstract thought.  A mind may be 3rd density, but it needs a body that "fits it".  Otherwise it is kind of like wearing a pair of mittens on your hand, as opposed to a regular glove, and trying to type something on a keyboard.  The individual fingers are not allowed to function at full capacity because the structure doesn't allow for that nuanced dexterity.

Again, I believe you are looking at the second density body as far too limiting. What about the Logos who evolved from trees? Their "meditation" is movement. This conceptualization of brains and body complexes that are necessary for 3rd density I believe is biased by this current incarnation.

Not precisely from my perspective.  Consider another Ra quote:

105.14 Questioner: Then the yellow-ray body, from the very beginning, was designed as what Ra has called an athanor for the mind, a device, you might say, to accelerate the evolution of the mind. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is perhaps more accurate to note that the yellow-ray, physical vehicle is a necessity without which the mind/body/spirit complex cannot pursue evolution at any pace.

That Ra quote is A) Trying to undistort a thought of Don's that's based on inaccurate thinking B) Talking about the archetypes, therefore relating the position of the use of a yellow-ray body to an incarnate 6th density Wanderer who desires to use the archetypes of the mind/body/spirit to further balance their polarity in the higher realms and C) Again, there is very clear quote where Ra says that a second density being can activate the yellow-ray body in my previous post. Ra then says when the yellow-ray body is activated, that the rest of the rays are in potentiation. I believe this is what your bolded portion means.

There is also the case of the beings from Maldek who use the limited 2nd density form as karmic restitution. Does this remove or undo all of the lessons of 3rd density from these entities? Are they forced back into the group pool without individualization by their incarnation into these bodies? I doubt it.

I think Ra says very clearly in the first quote I posted that a second-density can vibrate in green-ray (i.e. activate the yellow-ray) and THUS the yellow-ray entity has access to the rest of the rays. Yes, the great majority of beings who experience third density on our planet do so in human bodies, but I think this also has to do with all of the ramifications of The Choice. In theory, I believe, a 2nd density say, horse, could learn awareness and then, if efficient, quickly learn the lessons of love and service, possibly even dying as a martyr, and therefore not be beholden to the cycles of 3rd density incarnation. It doesn't have to be necessary for every entity, though the sequential activation was there. However, once it incarnates into 4th density time/space, it may decide to Wander as some 4th densities do.

[anagogy]

So, a mountain entity would just "vacate" its body? Like, harvest itself, but without death of its body complex? So do you think a walk-in comes and inhabits the shell of a body complex? Or does it sit empty? I just don't think this would happen. If anything, I would think that its incarnation into a human body would continue to be simultaneous with its mineral body, if it wants to incarnate here at harvest.

It's "body complex" in this case is 1st density matter that always stays in 1st density, just like all minerals do.  It is kind of like the base material for our physical world.  The red ray consciousness stays in red ray (i.e. the physical world), the orange ray, and yellow ray components may reflect or express themselves in this red ray material, but are not properly of that physical spectrum, so to answer your question from my perspective it just sits empty, in the same way that when an animal dies and its orange ray mind/spirit vacates its body, the body degrades back into its 1st density constituent elements.

I just think this is a restrictive way of looking at it. We are all the Creator. Any of us can realize it in a moment, and to say "us" refers to just humans is nonsense.

I didn't say it referred to "just humans", just that to properly experience the lessons of 3rd density, you need a 3rd density physical body.  Human bodies happen to be the 3rd density chemical bodies on this planet, so that is the 3rd density vehicle a 3rd density mind/spirit would incarnate into for 3rd density work.  Is it possible there are 3rd density other bodies on this planet?  Sure.  But none that I'm aware of.  All I'm saying is the body would have to have a similar cognitive capacity as a human being to really explore yellow ray lessons.  Again, I'm arguing brains are important (which is pretty apparent when you see how brain damage affects behavior).  After-all, Ra said the ability of a combination of rational and intuitive thought is a necessity for 3rd density.  If a tree body somehow allowed for that (which I would need to see to believe -- not saying it isn't possible) then a tree body could work for 3rd density, same goes for a mineral body.  I just don't see it as likely is all.    

There is also the case of the beings from Maldek who use the limited 2nd density form as karmic restitution. Does this remove or undo all of the lessons of 3rd density from these entities? Are they forced back into the group pool without individualization by their incarnation into these bodies? I doubt it.

No, of course not.  They are 3rd density spirits in 2nd density bodies, which limit them to mostly 2nd density patterns of thought for the duration of their incarnations.  After the "restitution is done" they will start reincarnating in 3rd density bodies again, and after death they would not be restricted to the parameters of their physical hosts brain.

I think Ra says very clearly in the first quote I posted that a second-density can vibrate in green-ray (i.e. activate the yellow-ray) and THUS the yellow-ray entity has access to the rest of the rays. Yes, the great majority of beings who experience third density on our planet do so in human bodies, but I think this also has to do with all of the ramifications of The Choice. In theory, I believe, a 2nd density say, horse, could learn awareness and then, if efficient, quickly learn the lessons of love and service, possibly even dying as a martyr, and therefore not be beholden to the cycles of 3rd density incarnation. It doesn't have to be necessary for every entity, though the sequential activation was there. However, once it incarnates into 4th density time/space, it may decide to Wander as some 4th densities do.

I'm not saying they can't access the rays.  Every density utilizes all the rays, but has a primary focus whereby it sees the other rays through.  But your ability to utilize a ray is limited by your perception of that ray, and perception is limited by the lens you are looking through (i.e. the brain).

[Jade]

We may continue to disagree about the relative importance of the functioning of the brain to the harvestability of an entity. I do not think that one thing Ra says supports your theory, here.

All I'm saying is the body would have to have a similar cognitive capacity as a human being to really explore yellow ray lessons.

Ra says that the median age an entity becomes aware of its choices and responsible for them in 3rd density is 15 months: 1.25 years. There are many, many animals that as a species test at cognitive functions higher than the average toddlers, 5 and 6 years old, many times the "median age" of cognitive awareness.

Birds communicate with each other through vocalizations and can learn to speak and understand human language, even. They may not appreciate poetry but they certainly appreciate song, and the vibrancy of color. The dexterity that is afforded to them by their beak + talons allows them to build elaborate homes, and some even use tools. We don't even begin to understand the way their brains work (let alone ours!) because their metabolism is so many times faster than ours, it's incomprehensible. There are flocks of wild birds, I have no doubt, that are learning the early lessons of 3rd density: selective mating, manipulation of their environment, verbal communication (as opposed to telepathic), nuanced familial bonding (previous generations of siblings often put off mating to help raise the younger ones), on and on.

If a tree body somehow allowed for that (which I would need to see to believe -- not saying it isn't possible) then a tree body could work for 3rd density, same goes for a mineral body.  I just don't see it as likely is all.    

You need proof before you take Ra's words on faith? Doesn't seem like you, anagogy.


I will once more refer to your signature quote, which you still have yet to tell me your personal interpretation. It is Ra describing the path of ascending through the densities. Don asks about raising the kundalini in the microcosm but Ra takes the opportunity, as usual, to refer to the macrocosm.

49.6 Questioner: What process would be the recommended process for correctly awakening, as they say, the kundalini and of what value would that be?

Ra: I am Ra. The metaphor of the coiled serpent being called upwards is vastly appropriate for consideration by your peoples. This is what you are attempting when you seek. There are, as we have stated, great misapprehensions concerning this metaphor and the nature of pursuing its goal. We must generalize and ask that you grasp the fact that this in effect renders far less useful that which we share. However, as each entity is unique, generalities are our lot when communicating for your possible edification.

We have two types of energy. We are attempting then, as entities in any true color of this octave, to move the meeting place of inner and outer natures further and further along or upward along the energy centers. The two methods of approaching this with sensible method are first, the seating within one’s self of those experiences which are attracted to the entity through the south pole. Each experience will need to be observed, experienced, balanced, accepted, and seated within the individual. As the entity grows in self-acceptance and awareness of catalyst the location of the comfortable seating of these experiences will rise to the new true-color entity. The experience, whatever it may be, will be seated in red ray and considered as to its survival content and so forth.

Each experience will be sequentially understood by the growing and seeking mind/body/spirit complex in terms of survival, then in terms of personal identity, then in terms of social relations, then in terms of universal love, then in terms of how the experience may beget free communication, then in terms of how the experience may be linked to universal energies, and finally in terms of the sacramental nature of each experience.

Meanwhile the Creator lies within. In the north pole the crown is already upon the head and the entity is potentially a god. This energy is brought into being by the humble and trusting acceptance of this energy through meditation and contemplation of the self and of the Creator.

Where these energies meet is where the serpent will have achieved its height. When this uncoiled energy approaches universal love and radiant being the entity is in a state whereby the harvestability of the entity comes nigh.

Every entity in this octave has a potential crown of Creatorhood that they can put on. It is sequential. An entity must first become self-aware before it can reach the crown, but the crown does not lie waiting outside of ourselves within the next body.

[anagogy]

We may continue to disagree about the relative importance of the functioning of the brain to the harvestability of an entity. I do not think that one thing Ra says supports your theory, here.

I feel the same about what you're advocating.  It isn't supported by the material.  Agree to disagree.

Also one point of clarification, I didn't say the brain has anything to do with harvestability.  A 2nd density being can tap into yellow ray, a 1st density being can tap into orange ray.  They just won't be able to "flesh it out" until they are in an appropriate body.

Ra says that the median age an entity becomes aware of its choices and responsible for them in 3rd density is 15 months: 1.25 years. There are many, many animals that as a species test at cognitive functions higher than the average toddlers, 5 and 6 years old, many times the "median age" of cognitive awareness.

There may be specific tasks an animal might be better at, but you can't even begin to compare those small evolutionary parlor tricks to the experience afforded by the conscious human brain.  I'm sorry, but I can't even begin to realistically entertain the notion that any 2nd density being is anywhere near as sophisticated in terms of social-intellectual relations as the human being.  And this is not to denigrate 2nd density.  There is a whole lot that 2nd density does better than 3rd density in terms of evolutionary defense mechanisms and survival.  You can't isolate a couple of cognitive functions and one test and say this proves the 2nd density brain is just as capable, you have to take the experience as a whole.  And even at that age, a human brain is going to have a lot more diverse experience of the world.  The imagination of a child is going to blow any 2nd density beings completely away.

Trying to learn 3rd density lessons with a 2nd density body is like trying to eat pudding with a pair of chopsticks.  Sure, you can try it, but wouldn't it make more sense to use a spoon?  A lot of what you're saying is just like that, it could be attempted, but it doesn't really work very well.  
   

You need proof before you take Ra's words on faith? Doesn't seem like you, anagogy.

I take a lot of what Ra says on faith, but at some point you have to compare any philosophy you are subscribing to to the real world experience you are having and I have yet to experience an rational self aware rock, or a rational self aware tree.  But who knows, maybe they will find a way of communicating with our world leaders and announcing the existence of their great and proud society.    

I will once more refer to your signature quote, which you still have yet to tell me your personal interpretation. It is Ra describing the path of ascending through the densities. Don asks about raising the kundalini in the microcosm but Ra takes the opportunity, as usual, to refer to the macrocosm.

[...]

Every entity in this octave has a potential crown of Creatorhood that they can put on. It is sequential. An entity must first become self-aware before it can reach the crown, but the crown does not lie waiting outside of ourselves within the next body.

It is one thing to tap into a ray, it is another to flesh out the nuances of that energy through practical catalytic experience.  It may be possible, but not very probable, and anyhow it isn't a race to the top.

And as for my signature, I really have no interpretation other than the fact that all consciousness is already the creator, and that we are not developing ourselves to become perfect, rather we are developing ourselves for the sake of the journey.  That journey goes through many environments.  I look at bodies as just another environment we are meant to get experience of.  A given density's body is "part" of that rays experience.  Without that density's body, you are not getting that density's full experience.  Isn't the creator meant to know itself?

[Jade]

Trying to learn 3rd density lessons with a 2nd density body is like trying to eat pudding with a pair of chopsticks.  Sure, you can try it, but wouldn't it make more sense to use a spoon?  A lot of what you're saying is just like that, it could be attempted, but it doesn't really work very well.  

It's not about whether or not something is making an attempt to be harvested. In fact, Ra says we're well along our paths to 4th density harvestability before we are even aware we have chosen. Everything is always attempting to make an upward reach to the creator. It's not about speed, nor is it about whether or not each individual can fully develop a yellow-ray experience through multiple incarnations. It's about whether or not something processes its experience at a fast rate, and becomes aware, and maintains a minimal balance in its activated centers. The possibility is built in for every entity in every true color density of this octave, because if it wasn't, it would totally negate the point of all of us being the Creator. It's more like "all are creators and some are more aware than others" than "Some are creators but others just can't be". If the Creator wants to experience itself as a 4th density, billion-year-old cluster of minerals and trees and bears and bugs, it will. Who cares about the challenge? This isn't set up to be easy, so if there are fragments that can "game" the system, they are allowed that. In infinity, the creator wants to try to eat pudding with chopsticks, or at least it's possible that the desire exists, because why not? It has forever to goof around. And if it succeeds, what a feat!

I take a lot of what Ra says on faith, but at some point you have to compare any philosophy you are subscribing to to the real world experience you are having and I have yet to experience an rational self aware rock, or a rational self aware tree.

I was merely teasing you for your conversation you had with Miny the other day, but of course I agree, any philosophy must stand up against real world experience. I guess, my real world experience is that I meet aware rocks and trees quite often. Have you ever climbed a mountain? Have you ever owned a dog? Or a parrot? There are ways to experience these things. Obviously a society of parrots will not be as developed or intricate or full of the rich possibility experience afforded a society of humans, but if you think of the most *primitive* societies of humans, their differences are quite minor, lessened even by the fact that ceremonial dress often involves dressing up to emulate birds and their courting ceremonies.

[Minyatur]

Aware trees are fun, strangely captivating and sometimes hard to leave.

I don't know about aware rocks, they seem more like "palentirs" (or simply channels..) unto something other.

[anagogy]

It's not about whether or not something is making an attempt to be harvested. In fact, Ra says we're well along our paths to 4th density harvestability before we are even aware we have chosen. Everything is always attempting to make an upward reach to the creator. It's not about speed, nor is it about whether or not each individual can fully develop a yellow-ray experience through multiple incarnations. It's about whether or not something processes its experience at a fast rate, and becomes aware, and maintains a minimal balance in its activated centers.

The suppositions I'm making are simply based on what Ra has said about 3rd density entities in general.  For example, do you recall how at the beginning of 3rd density, 3rd density beings are not really choosing their own incarnations?  The higher self basically places them wherever it feels they will gain the best experience towards developing a bias towards service to self, or service to others.  After all, 1st and 2nd density beings don't really have free will in the sense that they are choosing their own incarnations at that 2nd or 1st density level of consciousness -- the circumstances of their lifetimes are wholly programmed by the higher self (or the Logos possibly).  It just seems like it would make more sense that once they become harvestable the higher self would place them in a body where there was more opportunity for that bias between polarities to develop.  I could be wrong, but its seems to my reckoning, there aren't a whole lot of opportunities for that kind of yellow ray behavior as a mineral, or as a tree.  I mean if that is the normal modus operandi of the higher self with regard to normal 2nd density fauna when they become 3rd density harvestable, why should the other two be treated any different?  It just doesn't really make logical sense to me.  I would think a 3rd density harvestable being would be treated more or less the same as any other 3rd density harvestable being regardless of its chemical heritage.

[Minyatur]

A 2D body is probably simply inefficient toward learning the lessons of 3D.

[Jade]

All I'm arguing is that "probably simply inefficient" =/= nigh impossible. I mean, Ra gives a specific example of a mind/body/SPIRIT complex incarnated into a 2nd density body: Gandalf. Ra says that he was harvestable in a previous lifetime, and Carla believed that he even came back as a cat to their family again. Can't be that rare, right?

I guess I just think of an animal's life to be even less of a blink of an eye than a human life. If an late second density/early third density wants to incarnate for a handful of years again in a second density body complex (to learn the lessons of service that way - reciprocating the service of their owners with love), I think skating the border in such a way is allowed. And I don't think that because of wishful thinking, I think that because of all the things that Ra says: Specifically, that higher densities invest in the lower ones, which helps them reach harvest rapidly. This would often mean pets. I think most pets choose to live out the end of their lives with their loved ones instead of harvesting out of their body complexes just so they can have fingers.

Ra: I am Ra. The entity, mind/body/spirit complex, Gandalf, being harvestable third density, is open to the same type of psychic attack to which you yourselves are vulnerable. Therefore, through the mechanism of images and dreams, it is potentially possible for negative concepts to be offered to this mind/body/spirit complex, thus having possible deleterious results. The entity, Fairchild, though harvestable through investment, does not have the vulnerability to attack in as great an amount due to a lack of the mind complex activity in the distortion of conscious devotion.

98.7 Questioner: Would you explain the reason for saying “Keep in mind that this is harvestable third density” and tell me if you have any other specific recommendations with respect to the proposed operation on the growth?

Ra: I am Ra. We stated this in order to elucidate our use of the term “spirit complex” as applied to what might be considered a second-density entity. The implications are that this entity shall have far more cause to abide and heal that it may seek the presence of the loved ones.

104.10 Questioner: I feel very bad about the condition of the cat and really would like to help it. Can Ra suggest anything that we can do to help out Gandalf?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

104.11 Questioner: What would that be?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we would suggest that possibility/probability vortices include those in which the entity known as Gandalf has a lengthier incarnation. Secondly, we would suggest that this entity goes to a graduation if it desires. Otherwise, it may choose to reincarnate to be with those companions it has loved. Thirdly, the entity known to you as Betty has the means of making the entity more distorted towards comfort/discomfort.

[Jade]

It's just lower-density Wanderering. Think of how attached humans get to their single lifetimes, their friends, their families, their accomplishments - a mountain, millions of years old, can also gain awareness AND attachment to those under its care. Why would it harvest and let itself rot? Why not just continue into 3rd density, albeit likely very slowly, especially when you are already biased towards service? It's an innate bias in our Logos. Yes, the point of incarnation is to learn lessons, specifically the lessons of service: Ideally, and with bias, service to others. Wouldn't that include possibly limiting one's cognitive functioning, as a service to those it feels love for? Just as 4D/6D wanderers do?

[Stranger]

Jade, Dolores Cannon had a subject who had a life as a spider, experiencing all of the spider's emotions. She (female human in this life) found that life very dull and limiting, but it clearly came in the midst of other self-aware (i.e., 3D or higher) incarnations. The reasons for having chosen that life are, unfortunately, not discussed as I recall, but I'm sure had something to do with acquiring a particular experience / learning a lesson of some sort.

[Jade]

That's pretty interesting, Stranger. I've never read Dolores. I think wandering to 2D from any density is totally possible. Obviously the experience will have less nuance, but how much "time" was committed to this incarnation - a couple months to a couple years, likely, tops. Just another experience of the Creator limiting its awareness for the juxtaposition of separation/unity.

I mean, I wholeheartedly agree that the meat of creation is the Choice in 3D: This is where we help create articulated honestations. I just wholeheartedly disagree that an entity almost always chooses to immediately harvest itself at 3D awareness, and that early 3rd density lessons aren't available to the levels of cognitive functioning that a 2nd density entity can possess. I do not think the brain puts a hard cap on vibrational levels of an entity.

To answer the OP, I believe we are perfectly capable of feeling/radiating 4D love in the bodies we are in, as well as 6D unity/acceptance. I do not think we will get to participate in the higher levels of 4D bodily functions that are mentioned, like instant creation of food, or, the ability to make ourselves invisible to the lower densities. But I think we are able to get more than just a glimpse of 4D energies. Part of the transition is 'unlocking' 'unused' portions of our meager brains, in this body. It's a process, and it's the process we are here to experience. I believe a tree/animal has the same sort of 'latent' functioning that it can access through will.

[anagogy]

All I'm arguing is that "probably simply inefficient" =/= nigh impossible. I mean, Ra gives a specific example of a mind/body/SPIRIT complex incarnated into a 2nd density body: Gandalf. Ra says that he was harvestable in a previous lifetime, and Carla believed that he even came back as a cat to their family again. Can't be that rare, right?

I guess I just think of an animal's life to be even less of a blink of an eye than a human life. If an late second density/early third density wants to incarnate for a handful of years again in a second density body complex (to learn the lessons of service that way - reciprocating the service of their owners with love), I think skating the border in such a way is allowed. And I don't think that because of wishful thinking, I think that because of all the things that Ra says: Specifically, that higher densities invest in the lower ones, which helps them reach harvest rapidly. This would often mean pets. I think most pets choose to live out the end of their lives with their loved ones instead of harvesting out of their body complexes just so they can have fingers.

If a cat chose its incarnation that can only happen if it has achieved at least minimal heart activation (again, to be clear you can access rays but completely balancing them takes specific and refined catalyst).  Otherwise, according to Ra its incarnations are unconsciously chosen.  So basically you have a 3rd density harvestable spirit reincarnating in a 2nd density body, similar to the Maldek entities, except I would probably argue that "harvestability" is not exactly concomitant with being a full on 3rd density being (as the fact that it is still incarnating in a 2nd density body tells me that it has delayed actual harvest to the next vibratory threshold).  I'm not saying its impossible for a 3rd density being to attempt to learn 3rd density lessons from that 2nd density form, either, I'm just saying I would expect it be a fairly rare event (due to inefficiency).  And according to Ra, heart activation in 2nd density beings only happens in cases of extremely efficient use of catalyst.

41.16 Questioner: And then what entity would be the simplest that would have red, orange, yellow, and green activation?

Ra: I am Ra. This information has been covered in a previous session. To perhaps simplify your asking, each center may be seen to be activated potentially in third density, the late second-density entities having the capability, if efficient use is made of experience, of vibrating and activating the green-ray energy center.

The third-density being, having the potential for complete self-awareness, thus has the potential for the minimal activation of all energy centers. The fourth, fifth, and sixth densities are those refining the higher energy centers. The seventh density is a density of completion and the turning towards timelessness or foreverness.

You can see that even in this quote it points to the fact that human beings only have the potential for "minimal activation" of all energy centers.  The catalyst of other densities are required to actually refine them or use them fully.  Though they can probably fully potentiate the yellow ray center.

[Jade]

Otherwise, according to Ra its incarnations are unconsciously chosen.

Well, in the quote I posted above, Ra said that Gandalf himself can choose harvest, OR choose reincarnation again with his loved ones. Would that mean Gandalf is... mid third - fourth density harvestable?

[anagogy]

Otherwise, according to Ra its incarnations are unconsciously chosen.

Well, in the quote I posted above, Ra said that Gandalf himself can choose harvest, OR choose reincarnation again with his loved ones. Would that mean Gandalf is... mid third - fourth density harvestable?

To my way of thinking "harvestability" would imply that the energy had become sustained for the most part.  So if you were 3rd density harvestable, you would have to have sustained self awareness (like your way of looking at the world had shifted fundamentally and become part of your identity).  Same goes for being 4th density harvestable, polarization would presume you have more or less turned on green ray permanently or at least, consistently enough to warrant incarnation in that realm.  I have no doubt we have moments of flashing into other rays -- indigo ray, blue ray, violet ray etc.  But the energy isn't "seated".  In the same way, I think a second density being could be 3rd density harvestable, and have a small degree of activation in green ray due to efficient use of catalyst, but it isn't sustained.  Otherwise it would be possible to skip densities.  As far as I'm aware, that isn't possible, but that is another question I wish they would have asked.

[Jade]

I think I may have found an example of a 2nd density entity attempting to take on 3rd density lessons while still incarnate in its 2nd density form...

[Jade]

Otherwise, according to Ra its incarnations are unconsciously chosen.

Well, in the quote I posted above, Ra said that Gandalf himself can choose harvest, OR choose reincarnation again with his loved ones. Would that mean Gandalf is... mid third - fourth density harvestable?

To my way of thinking "harvestability" would imply that the energy had become sustained for the most part.  So if you were 3rd density harvestable, you would have to have sustained self awareness (like your way of looking at the world had shifted fundamentally and become part of your identity).  Same goes for being 4th density harvestable, polarization would presume you have more or less turned on green ray permanently or at least, consistently enough to warrant incarnation in that realm.  I have no doubt we have moments of flashing into other rays -- indigo ray, blue ray, violet ray etc.  But the energy isn't "seated".  In the same way, I think a second density being could be 3rd density harvestable, and have a small degree of activation in green ray due to efficient use of catalyst, but it isn't sustained.  Otherwise it would be possible to skip densities.  As far as I'm aware, that isn't possible, but that is another question I wish they would have asked.

I guess that's where we disagree. I believe that Ra says that it IS possible to skip densities (though sequence of activation of rays has to be in order). I account for this by the fact that 4th density entities often wander, and will then 'go back' to experience 3D, as I'm sure they feel a 'gap' in their experience. And applying what you have said, obviously what Ra says in the quote about Gandalf is that his polarity is sustained enough that he gets to choose his next incarnation, harvest or wander.

19.1 What I would like to know first is do all entities make a transition from second to third density, or are there some other entities who have never gone through this transition?

Ra: I am Ra. Your question presumes the space/time continuum understandings of the intelligent energy which animates your illusion. Within the context of this illusion we may say that there are some which do not transfer from one particular density to another, for the continuum is finite.

[Zach]

We may continue to disagree about the relative importance of the functioning of the brain to the harvestability of an entity. I do not think that one thing Ra says supports your theory, here.

I feel the same about what you're advocating.  It isn't supported by the material.  Agree to disagree.

Also one point of clarification, I didn't say the brain has anything to do with harvestability.  A 2nd density being can tap into yellow ray, a 1st density being can tap into orange ray.  They just won't be able to "flesh it out" until they are in an appropriate body.

Ra says that the median age an entity becomes aware of its choices and responsible for them in 3rd density is 15 months: 1.25 years. There are many, many animals that as a species test at cognitive functions higher than the average toddlers, 5 and 6 years old, many times the "median age" of cognitive awareness.

There may be specific tasks an animal might be better at, but you can't even begin to compare those small evolutionary parlor tricks to the experience afforded by the conscious human brain.  I'm sorry, but I can't even begin to realistically entertain the notion that any 2nd density being is anywhere near as sophisticated in terms of social-intellectual relations as the human being.  And this is not to denigrate 2nd density.  There is a whole lot that 2nd density does better than 3rd density in terms of evolutionary defense mechanisms and survival.  You can't isolate a couple of cognitive functions and one test and say this proves the 2nd density brain is just as capable, you have to take the experience as a whole.  And even at that age, a human brain is going to have a lot more diverse experience of the world.  The imagination of a child is going to blow any 2nd density beings completely away.

Trying to learn 3rd density lessons with a 2nd density body is like trying to eat pudding with a pair of chopsticks.  Sure, you can try it, but wouldn't it make more sense to use a spoon?  A lot of what you're saying is just like that, it could be attempted, but it doesn't really work very well.  
   

You need proof before you take Ra's words on faith? Doesn't seem like you, anagogy.

I take a lot of what Ra says on faith, but at some point you have to compare any philosophy you are subscribing to to the real world experience you are having and I have yet to experience an rational self aware rock, or a rational self aware tree.  But who knows, maybe they will find a way of communicating with our world leaders and announcing the existence of their great and proud society.    

I will once more refer to your signature quote, which you still have yet to tell me your personal interpretation. It is Ra describing the path of ascending through the densities. Don asks about raising the kundalini in the microcosm but Ra takes the opportunity, as usual, to refer to the macrocosm.

[...]

Every entity in this octave has a potential crown of Creatorhood that they can put on. It is sequential. An entity must first become self-aware before it can reach the crown, but the crown does not lie waiting outside of ourselves within the next body.

It is one thing to tap into a ray, it is another to flesh out the nuances of that energy through practical catalytic experience.  It may be possible, but not very probable, and anyhow it isn't a race to the top.

And as for my signature, I really have no interpretation other than the fact that all consciousness is already the creator, and that we are not developing ourselves to become perfect, rather we are developing ourselves for the sake of the journey.  That journey goes through many environments.  I look at bodies as just another environment we are meant to get experience of.  A given density's body is "part" of that rays experience.  Without that density's body, you are not getting that density's full experience.  Isn't the creator meant to know itself?

Anagogy, You've explained yourself very well and I resonate with what you say. It would seem to me based on the material that the 2nd density entity's highest (probable) capacity for experience would be that of green ray. This experience of green ray activation would obviously be perceptually different in ways than the 3rd density given the limitations of the 2nd density body as you mentioned but still share certain fundamental qualities. What effect (or non-effect) and where this would put the harvestable entity in terms of 3d placement I do not know, but its interesting to think about. In the case of a second density entity experiencing green ray activation my understanding is it will most often incarnate as 3d for the following incarnation.


An interesting example of a case where an entity that had been previously "individualized" and chose 2nd density form once again would be Gandalf the cat, as previously mentioned.

"30.13 Questioner: I was wondering if the male cat, Gandalf, has benefited by that mechanism in some way or by other mechanisms in increasing spiritual potential or understanding.

Ra: I am Ra. We examine this information and find it harmless. The second-density entity, sound vibration Gandalf, is a rare sample of its species due first to previous individualization, secondly due to a great amount of investment in this particular life experience. This is the greatest catalyst in this entity’s progress. It is very unusual, as we have said. However, the experiences of bisexual reproduction which were of the nature of the entity Gandalf were to a small extent of spiritual benefit due to an unusual relationship with another entity, this also what you call a cat. This entity also being of an unusually third-density orientation or investment from previous life experiences. Thus the formation of what could be seen to be recognizably love did exist in this relationship."

[Stranger]

I'm going to throw a small wrench into the assumptions of this discussion. I have a crystal - it's not even a quartz crystal or a precious mineral - that is fully self-aware and as intelligent as any human I've come across (in the informal, conversational sense). Therefore I will refer to the crystal as "he".

He is in fact more aware than I am, because he can sense my energy states, and when I'd been distressed has suggested effective exercises for transforming distress into a content state using energy work.

We have had numerous conversations where he has explained his experience to me. E.g., his spiritual evolutionary task is to remain peaceful regardless of what emotional energies the entities around him are expressing (not too different from the human 3D task, it seems).

Clearly, my friend the crystal does not possess even a 2D brain. But equally clearly, we are not physical beings and all of the actual faculties we possess are fully present in the subtle bodies. The physical may limit their external manifestations and, to the extent that we do not shift our attentional focus away from the physical, may even limit our experience to whatever the physical allows. BUT the inner experience is not a product of the brain, but of our inner being - and therefore, clearly, does not have to be limited by it.

[Jade]

Really, I believe that the third density human brain specifically -limits- our awareness, and those who become 'aware' in their first/second density bodies have an edge on choosing to use catalyst, due to the lack of veil at incarnation.

[Nicholas]

Aware trees are fun, strangely captivating and sometimes hard to leave.

I don't know about aware rocks, they seem more like "palentirs" (or simply channels..) unto something other.

Trees offer significant insights and have been used much, metaphorically, whether it be relating to "life" or "knowledge". Perhaps the tree is one of the earliest 2nd density expressions? I mean, it is rooted in a planet and is wholly dependent on a sun-disc for its towering glory.

I personally love travelling through overhanging trees when I ride my bike. It works while driving through a country lane as well. I feel energised by it.

I had a high five personal moment with Carla when Ra offered their health recommendations to the "instrument"...

25.2 Questioner: The second question the instrument requested was: How may I best revitalize myself not only now but in the future?

Ra: I am Ra. This instrument is aware of the basic needs of its constitution, those being meditation, acceptance of limitations, experiences of joy through association with others and with the beauty as of the singing, and the exercising with great contact, whenever possible, with the life forces of second density, especially those of trees;

I cant imagine 4th density that doesn't include interacting with 2nd. I would literally pass on harvesting just so I could return to 3rd density and commune with nature. I do believe though that communion with 2nd density life still occurs in 4D, its just that it might not be such a "physical" affair.

[AnthroHeart]

Heck I'd take 4D thoughtform trees even if they weren't "real".
Bring on 4D.