Here's the truth.

[Hototo]

I suppose I could go ahead and insert this suggestion here. A sub-forum created specifically to deal with these sorts of issues. Whenever an issue of disciplinary action comes up, be it the deleting of the post or the banning of a member, the involved member(s) would have the choice of making the resulting discussion public or private. Therefore, even if executive power was retained in making a decision, members would have a more open, encouraging atmosphere in which to contribute their thoughts on the matter if it was agreed to allow the issue to be publicly observed. Heck, maybe a few suggestions could be offered that neither party would have thought of themselves!

I understand that in some extreme cases this is really not an option, such as when someone is behaving in a threatening manner or hacking the site like a few previous members have done. I'm also not at all suggesting we give ourselves up to anarchy and reducing this community to a taking of sides which then battle it out to decide a victor. However, I feel a little more transparency and public involvement could do absolute wonders for these repeating scenarios. As of now it seems that this is merely an ongoing issue that no one really wants to seriously address, instead deciding to let it fester and grow, resulting in more and more (increasingly dramatic) occurrences.

Of course, I'm not especially well-versed in how the moderative process works, and I realize there may be a good deal of perspective I do not currently have access to. I also realize that instigating change to that degree could be difficult and time consuming, requiring actual man power which may or may not be available, and I'm also unsure what measures could be taken to *prevent* the whole thing from dissolving into the usual arguments which would wind up diluting the topic at hand. It is by no means a perfect scenario. Therefore I present this just as a suggestion, not a demand, and I would be thrilled if anyone could think up a way to improve the suggestion, or come up with an even better one.

Also, this may be derailing, I'm not even sure at this point. I apologize if this post requires moving, it seems this issue is all over the forum now and may as well be dropped anywhere that retains some relevance to the topic, but I could be distorted in that perspective.

***Edited for typo and addition of info I felt was relevant. No info was removed.

---

***Claims lack of desire to get involved, then turns around and gets involved anyway. Wat are you doing, Lynn?***

"white" people in this situation refers not to race but rather, to "ostensibly/public STO polarization"

[Brittany]

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if the type of community that seems to be desired *is* even possible in a forum format. We may need to start thinking entirely outside of the box.

[Adonai One]

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if the type of community that seems to be desired *is* even possible in a forum format. We may need to start thinking entirely outside of the box.

Forking of the community may become an inevitability as it grows. Currently, there is great cohesion. Perhaps I am not percieving as much disharmony as you do.

To elaborate, forums are known to split into different forums to appease different cultures. I see this as a solution. However, such is barely possible as the community stands today: There are far too few participants.

[Steppingfeet]

Hello all,

I am attempting a reply from the road. On the way to South Dakota, my fiancée behind the wheel. Perfect summer day for a road trip!

I have read this thread. So much good material to dig into. Valid points all around.

I will paste my PM that was sent yesterday to Adonai One. It is not perfect - it did not have the benefit of the other moderators' review prior to sending. Had I not been rushing to juggle 100 things for my upcoming journey, I would have submitted it to the other mods for fine tuning consensus and creating a better end-product maximally balancing service to the various dynamics at play. It is, however, in broad strokes, representative of the basic L/L Research position on this topic at the moment, Jim and Carla included. (Note: not a position that is impervious to potential evolution.)

I apologize to all that there have indeed been inconsistencies on this matter. Due in part to my own stupidity, and in part to, as Austin mentioned, L/L as an organization not taking an official position. As Austin said, we will work to make that clearer in due time.

To the PM below I wanted to add that the discipline and art of channeling is no walk in the park. There are consequences for well intentioned but haphazard attempts at gaining that signal and transmitting it to others. "Friends", "brothers", and "sisters" though they may be, Adonai One, they are still removed from our experience by immense magnitudes of power and vibratory boundaries. Great potential there is for disarrangement. Not to mention that these friends, brothers and sisters, are not the only non-physical beings in town.

For instance, Carla has witnessed a student of hers go temporarily insane due to not following her instructions. He got a very, very negative entity on the line. It caused her to discontinue her channeling intensive workshops for many years.

So much to say but I will leave it there for now. I love you all and hope that with Austin's arrival in Louisville, I can more frequently join the fray to learn from the wisdom each of you has gained along your path of seeking the truth.

With love, Gary

Hello Adonai One,

I sincerely apologize that I was not able to provide you an immediate PM after taking your thread offline. (It has not been “deleted”.) I am very short on time today, your thread was brought to the moderators’ attention, and I took action, asking that the other moderators follow through as soon as they could. I see however that you require speedier service, so I take some time to reply.

To cut to the chase, I will state unequivocally that those of L/L Research are not the only ones who may channel Confederation sources. Certainly other people are capable, and other people may be doing it right now, or may do so in the future. As a matter of fact, there are others who have claimed to channel “Ra”, or “Q’uo”. Currently there is an individual in Asia who alternates between channeling “Ra” and “Q’uo” in the same sitting. And there will be more to come.

We don’t attempt the folly of creating conflict with these other channels, or suggesting to them that they are not permitted to channel whoever it is under the sun they wish to channel. Each is free to do as they wish. We only encourage the seeker to exercise discernment in selecting that information which resonates and that which does not. Therefore, if you wish to channel “Q’uo” – by all means. Your path is yours to walk; it is not for us to walk.

However, you cannot do so on the Bring4th Forums. I am sorry if this comes as unwelcome news. The channels of L/L Research, principally Carla L. Rueckert, have spent decades developing and utilizing fine-tuned protocols to establish and maintain the integrity and purity of this contact. “Q’uo” through L/L Research has a distinct meaning, and feeling, and purpose, and identity. To the extent that we are operating under our roof, we wish to guard this. We do not wish to create confusion for the reader when there inevitably arises conflict between the two Q’uo’s information.

We have worked to accommodate every possible need on the forums within reason, from creation of the Treehouse forum, Health & Diet, Corkboard, Archetypes, Sessions in Focus, Spiritual Implications, and the Non-L/L Research Channeled Sources sub-forum – all expansions from the original forums. Each time a need was perceived, we attempted to meet that need by expanding the possible categories, even to the extent of creating a space to discuss specifically non-L/L Research material on the L/L Research forums.

The Non-L/L Research Channeled Sources sub-forum has become a platform for people to share their own channeling, often with no relation to L/L Research. There is no attempt to stifle this. We try to give a home to everything we can. But we cannot give space to someone who – on a whim and without undertaking the training and procedure that has come to characterize this particular channeling, this particular information on which this community is built – determines that they are going to forgo the well-established and time-tested protocols and channel “Q’uo”.

Would you enter Carla’s house and, at one of her gatherings, announce to all in attendance that you would be channeling Q’uo? If not, then why is it any more justifiable in the forums? And if you would, what would be your motivation?

I don’t want to come across as dogmatic or proprietary. Please feel free to channel Q’uo to your heart’s content. Just not in L/L Research’s house. Untold energy and time has gone into creating the vast library made freely available to every seeker the world over at llresearch.org. We do not intend to create or foster an environment of confusion under *this* roof.

I hope you will understand, and continue to enjoy the Bring4th Forums.

With love/light,
GLB

PS: For future reference, if you see a thread go offline, and you don’t immediately have a note from a moderator within your possession, please give me or the other mods the benefit of the doubt that we will, indeed, communicate with you. We have over an 4.5 year track record now of communicating to members where it concerns a guideline or moderator or community issue, all in a reasonable time frame and with respect for all persons. It is wholly unnecessary to create a thread to entice a moderator into conversation.

To ground that statement in actual, personal experience, you and I have had one interaction thus far, and during that interaction did I not go out of my way to accommodate you? Asking how best I could meet your need and following through accordingly. Please keep that in mind. This is indicative of how we always attempt to operate.

I am now completely out of time. If you wish to continue this discussion, you made do so with the other three moderators cc’d on this PM. I would be happy to continue this conversation with you myself, but it will have to be at a later time.

[Adonai One]

Great potential there is for disarrangement. For instance, Carla has witnessed a student of hers go temporarily insane due to not following her instructions. He got a very, very negative entity on the line. It caused her to discontinue her channeling intensive workshops for many years.

...

There are consequences for well intentioned but haphazard attempts at gaining that signal and transmitting it to others.

Okay, so you want to protect people by discouraging self-taught and uninitiated channeling?

I acknowledge your last statement and its truth but I believe people can be reasonably forewarned of the integrity of any signal. I am willing to understand a counterposition to this.

Thank you for your time and acknowledgement. This is an endless pleasure in any case. This is a great way to get to know each other and just talk.

L/L

[Brittany]

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if the type of community that seems to be desired *is* even possible in a forum format. We may need to start thinking entirely outside of the box.

Forking of the community may become an inevitably as it grows. Currently, there is great cohesion. Perhaps I am not percieving as much disharmony as you do.

To elaborate, forums are known to split into different forums to appease different cultures. I see this as a solution. However, such is barely possible as the community stands today: There are far too few participants.

I mean a box can only hold so much. A forum is an excellent springboard, but I think expecting it to become the perfect community is perhaps limiting us in the expansion of an actual memory complex. The forum is a useful thing that brings many people together, but we are more than a forum, and any construct will only take us so far. I prefer to not even see forum members and moderators, but only my dear friends whom I love to interact with in as many ways as possible. If the internet were to die tomorrow, would all the bonds we have created be severed? Certainly not.

I think as we each put out the effort of reaching out to one another in love and acceptance, and the effort of doing our own inner balancing work, the manifestation of our truest combined intent will be inevitable. Love is not something that can be contained.

[Adonai One]

"Friends", "brothers", and "sisters" though [Q'uo] may be, Adonai One, they are still removed from our experience by immense magnitudes of power and vibratory boundaries.

Also, I don't understand why those words are in quotes.

[BrownEye]

“Q’uo” through L/L Research has a distinct meaning, and feeling, and purpose, and identity.

This is pretty much all that needs be said.

Untold energy and time has gone into creating the vast library made freely available to every seeker the world over at llresearch.org. We do not intend to create or foster an environment of confusion under *this* roof.

And this is a qualifier.

It's strange to me when visitors attempt to claim rights.

If I create a house, and invite strangers, I would still police my property, and enforce rules. Even when I threw parties, I hired bouncers. (yeah, I have a wild past)

[Plenum]

yeah, I'm with BrownEye here.

there's a creeping sense of 'entitlement' just because things are fairly unmoderated and easy going for 99% of the time.

but this is an LLResearch website for the discussion of the Law of One and Conferation philosophy.

it's not a social hangout to promote whatever interests happen to take your fancy in the moment.

from their 'official description':

Welcome to Bring4th.org - A Community for The Law of One
bring4th.org/‎
Bring4th is L/L Research's official social community site to exchange ideas and discuss The Law of One principles.

from the guidelines:

"5) Members who selfishly use the forum’s common resources without regard for its members' shared interests may be unsubscribed. This includes those who insist on promoting / showcasing themselves, their own websites, philosophies, products, services or other unrelated teachings. "

wanna a website and forum with no rules? it's easy!

start your own

peace fellow seekers

- -

disgruntlement and complaint is a sign of the disempowered.

[Adonai One]

but this is an LLResearch website for the discussion of the Law of One and Conferation philosophy.

L/L Research does not have a property right to The Law of One nor Confederation philosophy.

Under copyright law they may do but that was never the intention.

Indeed I wish to entitle all people to spread the word as they please, especially in the social circles that claim to follow the Law of One. I wish to empower all people to speak, to share, to preach and to build as they please. This congolomerate has become one of the main portals for the philosophy. I find myself compelled to make sure what I percieve as integrity remains intact.

This is something I am willing to die for, to sweat for, to drain my blood for. These words have changed me and shaped me and while the channelers have played a big part in it, I owe it to the entities for the wisdom provided.

This wisdom shall be shared in as many manners, among as many people it takes form. It's not a matter of who is going to let me. It's a matter of who is going to stop me.

[Brittany]

I love all of you guys, and I see so much love being displayed here even though a few tempers have flared and we are looking at multiple issues which may not have easy solutions. In spite of my original hesitance to even comment, just reading these posts is giving me plenty of personal opportunity to learn, grow and adjust to new perspectives, and I am thankful for that. Being able to discuss disagreements while retaining love and respect is the hallmark of a crystallized blue ray, in my opinion. A mere shift of perspective renders this occurrence not a pain in the arse, but a shining opportunity! Hugs to everyone. <3

[Adonai One]

disgruntlement and complaint is a sign of the disempowered.

You are free to play judge, Plenum. You are free to hold yourself of a higher moral fibre but these human conventions are absolutely foreign in other realms. These restrictions are not needed for other species.

We only control because we fear.

[Brittany]

This being said, I feel I have said everything I can say on this topic without taking sides, pointing fingers, or reducing myself to sarcastic comments that aren't actually funny to anyone. Peace.

[Adonai One]

I am again leaving because I cannot support an institution that relies on controlling and directing its members in this fashion.

I have much work to do.

[GentleReckoning]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k21dSfGumyc

[anagogy]

I am again leaving because I cannot support an institution that relies on controlling and directing its members in this fashion.

I have much work to do.

You know, you could still share your channelings, you need only ask whatever entity, or entities, you channel to pick a different name. The name is essentially the problem here.

And besides, "The names are not important because there are no names. Your mind/body/spirit complexes request names and so, in many cases, the vibratory sound complexes which are consonant with the vibratory distortions of each entity are used. However, the name concept is not part of the Council."

Why does the wisdom that you want to channel have the egoic attachment to that one particular name? Isn't it the message, rather than the messenger that is important here?

Your personal attachment to the name is the only thing stopping you.

No outside force is. There is no need for the melodrama of sweat, bloodshed, or death.

None of that is intended to be an attack, ridicule, or otherwise acerbic comment. It is simply advice. I have more respect for you than you know.

[Adonai One]

I am now asked to use different names. By whom I have been asked is not L/L Research. It could have been totally different, however.

This was all a test. The result was made very clear.

I will now be doing my work alone. I wanted to share it with a bunch of people but now I will have to build up my support all on my own.

---

The only ego here is the cancer that is intellectual property. I once almost begged L/L Research to put The Law of One in the public domain but I see they rely on it for funding. A hard thing to balance.

Also, Q'uo is not part of the Council.

[Jade]

disgruntlement and complaint is a sign of the disempowered.

You are free to play judge, Plenum. You are free to hold yourself of a higher moral fibre but these human conventions are absolutely foreign in other realms. These restrictions are not needed for other species.

We only control because we fear.

In this case, what L/L has to fear is losing their reputation and being unable to keep the lights on.

Trying to force others to live in 4D is a free will violation. Everybody still has 3D hang-ups so we need to work around them to be the most STO we can. You are free to live in your own 4D world, but as soon as you come into 3D environments, like internet forums, no matter how evolved they may be, you are asking for 3D influences to come creeping in. Becoming aggravated whenever this happens is not productive, in my opinion.

Good luck on your journeys, Adonai. Leave or stay, I just hope the catalysts keep you feeling alive. Love, light, and respect, brother.

[Adonai One]

Let it be known that I have not coerced a single individual. I am only doing what I feel is my duty to make my voice heard.

I ask of nothing. You are free to ignore me.

I only want to be of service. I only want information to travel without restriction. These are preferences. I do not hold them as illusory rights.

I will say I am offended that I am talked down to in a community that supposedly upholds unconditional love and communication but I am just as guilty of being conditional in many respects.

This is merely my passion I have for this material. I honestly would die for it. However, the idea that I have to work way my up and be approved of to have an unconditional voice in this community -- I would not die for that.

[Alex Zachary]

I am Q'uo , and naturally all things , just like you, just like that slice of pizza you never ate there. We say to you brave souls that this is a perfect time for you to just have some fun and stop giving a s*** about such politics.

PS: In all seriousness though, Adonai 1 , did you try online dating? There might be some nice chicks there. Chicks love passionate men with things to die for.

[anagogy]

I am now asked to use different names. By whom I have been asked is not L/L Research. It could have been totally different, however.

This was all a test. The result was made very clear.

I will now be doing my work alone. I wanted to share it with a bunch of people but now I will have to build up my support all on my own.

---

The only ego here is the cancer that is intellectual property. I once almost begged L/L Research to put The Law of One in the public domain but I see they rely on it for funding. A hard thing to balance.

Well, best of luck to you then, in that case.

The name must be really important to you if you feel you have to stop sharing with the forum over it.

I hope that you find the support you are looking for.

[Adonai One]

I am now asked to use different names. By whom I have been asked is not L/L Research. It could have been totally different, however.

This was all a test. The result was made very clear.

I will now be doing my work alone. I wanted to share it with a bunch of people but now I will have to build up my support all on my own.

---

The only ego here is the cancer that is intellectual property. I once almost begged L/L Research to put The Law of One in the public domain but I see they rely on it for funding. A hard thing to balance.

Well, best of luck to you then, in that case.

The name must be really important to you if you feel you have to stop sharing with the forum over it.

I hope that you find the support you are looking for.

I do not work well under authority. Never have. Never will.

[Alex Zachary]

You rebel ! The service that you bring is humor , Adonai, you're one funny madafucaaa.

[Adonai One]

there's a creeping sense of 'entitlement' just because things are fairly unmoderated and easy going for 99% of the time.

This part grinded my gears the most. Freedom is an entitlement? It is an entitlement to be free from control by a higher power? It is a privilege to be able to talk to people freely in a community supposedly founded on unconditional love? Is that really your attitude, plenum?

I am sorry. I was just under the impression that control was something that wasn't preferred here. I guess I am wrong.

[Bring4th_Austin]

It is my personal request to everyone participating in this thread that, if at any time you feel as though you cannot approach this discussion in the light of love and in an attempt to bring understanding and unity, take a step back, take some deep breaths, go for a walk, play some games, write some poems, meditate...whatever you need to do to center yourself in the loving vibration before returning. This discussion will be here when you get back, promise. It is an emotionally driven discussion and a great learning opportunity on an individual and group level, but that growth can't be available without stepping back and reflecting, and avoiding getting caught in the emotional loop. Let's be mindful of our words and keep our hearts pointed towards harmony.

[BrownEye]

You know, you could still share your channelings, you need only ask whatever entity, or entities, you channel to pick a different name. The name is essentially the problem here.

This is the error I see some will make early on. Many attempt to contact a "known" source and have no way to define just what answers.

I see the safest way as a slow expansion of awareness, identifying each source that interacts with you. The way I see it, using a "calling card" without first having the intimacy is inviting quite a wide spectrum of bidders that will answer to any name. Not to mention the possibility of contacting a thought form that was created by enough readers or believers.

[Adonai One]

It is my personal request to everyone participating in this thread that, if at any time you feel as though you cannot approach this discussion in the light of love and in an attempt to bring understanding and unity, take a step back, take some deep breaths, go for a walk, play some games, write some poems, meditate...whatever you need to do to center yourself in the loving vibration before returning. This discussion will be here when you get back, promise. It is an emotionally driven discussion and a great learning opportunity on an individual and group level, but that growth can't be available without stepping back and reflecting, and avoiding getting caught in the emotional loop. Let's be mindful of our words and keep our hearts pointed towards harmony.

I cannot hold contempt for anybody here. I only voice my true feelings out of what I believe is service to those who are willing to listen.

If you find my words abrasive, I will respect your freewill and just go now.

I am sorry if I have infringed the freewill of others through this.

I only do this out of a genuine passion. There are no conditions here. There are no obligations from me.

Thank you all.

[BrownEye]

However, the idea that I have to work way my up and be approved of to have an unconditional voice in this community -- I would not die for that.

I do not think there is any work your way up. They mentioned another that channels the same entities, but there is no real reason for her to post her channelings here, nor is there any reason for Carla to post her channelings over there.

Just sit back a second, and consider what it would be like if we all channeled "Q'uo" and posted it here. Does this sound a little ludicrous to you? Would any of us be able to prove that it was the same entities? Would any of us be able to compare the frequency, in order to rule out multiple spirits, beings, and thought forms, having fun at each of our expense?

Don't start out with a name in mind, hoping for contact. You will have a near infinite spectrum of consciousness trying to fill that position, all happy to take up the name. Just continue to practice, and post your findings.

-I would add, it should be understandable to picture a lot of individuals channeling what they believe to be a single entity, yet everyone gets conflicting information.

[xise]

Re: the name issue.

I think that L/L Research's channeling research has found that words from any conscious channeling is by definition a mix of the channeled entity and the channeler him or herself. (You will notice Zenny's comment touched upon Carla's personality in Q'uo).

Thus, it makes sense that any conscious channeling combination of an entity + channeler/group of channelers is a unique messenger (an entity/conscious channeler complex, if you will). It would argue for the position that each different entity/conscious channeler complex should go by a different name, because it is in vibration, a different messenger.

Thus, from the perspective that each entity/conscious channeler complex is itself a unique messenger, it makes sense that rules should be enforced that every entity/conscious channeler complex should have a different name, even if the entity believed to take part is the same.

In the end, the name is not important. The message is. An inner guide is one of your spirit guides from your inner planes. Any entity from the outer planes you must channel to contact, and if indeed that channeled entity is providing you guidance, is it really so hard to simply channel your beautiful message to your heart's contact and call them your outer guide?

(Btw, another example of name confusion in practice is the "hidden hand" on ats and the "hidden hand" on theshroomery forum that was posted a few weeks back. Some people here thought they were the same hidden hand when they were different and it confused people in practice. A logical position is that this stuff is difficult enough to learn without adding name confusion.)

The principle of freedom is involved, but there are concerns about promoting unsafe channeling, concerns about name confusion, concerns about name tarnishment (not from you, but from someone else who may channel something messed up), concerns about whether each entity/conscious channeler complex should have a different name. I think the burden put on the would be channeler to balance and alleviate these concerns is minimal man - just use a general name - such as "my source" or "outer guide", and let the message's vibration speak for you. That's a balanced compromise. And after all, don't we have to compromise in order to bridge the gap between two different positions?

p.s. That being said, I do tend to agree with Not Sure that moderating decisions should be publicly reasoned, in order to promote growth and evolution of rules concerning moderating, and to encourage consistent enforcement. You can't really give moderators feedback if you aren't easily aware of when moderation takes place.

[Bring4th_Austin]

It is my personal request to everyone participating in this thread that, if at any time you feel as though you cannot approach this discussion in the light of love and in an attempt to bring understanding and unity, take a step back, take some deep breaths, go for a walk, play some games, write some poems, meditate...whatever you need to do to center yourself in the loving vibration before returning. This discussion will be here when you get back, promise. It is an emotionally driven discussion and a great learning opportunity on an individual and group level, but that growth can't be available without stepping back and reflecting, and avoiding getting caught in the emotional loop. Let's be mindful of our words and keep our hearts pointed towards harmony.

I cannot hold contempt for anybody here. I only voice my true feelings out of what I believe is service to those who are willing to listen.

If you find my words abrasive, I will respect your freewill and just go now.

I am sorry if I have infringed the freewill of others through this.

I only do this out of a genuine passion. There are no conditions here. There are no obligations from me.

Thank you all.

If there were any words said that crossed the line of disrespect and abrasiveness, it would have been a moderator request, not a personal request. And the request is made broadly to everyone participating, no single person, moving forward, as I know that threads like this sometimes have a tendency to devolve from quality discussion into gilded jabs and projections.

However, as your friend and someone who values your contributions, I would suggest that perhaps a breather could help clear your air and help you bring new life and understanding to this discussion, and hopefully you wouldn't feel the need to depart the community completely. I've personally found that stepping outside of an issue I've thrown myself into the middle of always helps me gain new insight and focus, and gives me an opportunity to keep my footing in a complex emotional landscape. Just a suggestion from one friend to another.