+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Community (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=16)
+--- Forum: Olio (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Here's the truth. (/showthread.php?tid=7438)
Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
Update: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=7438&pid=125485#pid125485
Update: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=7438&pid=125509#pid125509
While not official policy, apparently you're not allowed to post channelings of our brothers and sisters Ra, Latwii and Hatonn which are known as Q'uo unless you're initiated, trained and ordained by the authorities of L/L Research at their sole discretion.
This is good-intentioned. It is intended to prevent conflicts in material.
My point-of-view is that all of you are smart, sovereign and powerful enough to choose what material you want to believe in. I believe nobody should take an active role in deciding who you listen to but rather let the cards fall as they wish.
Again, believe what you want to believe. If you believe this temple should cull what is not considered kosher and only let members speak in accordance to prescribed law, so be it. If you want something a little more free than that, make your voice heard.
We should remember that nobody owns the words of these entities. They want their word spread. If that is not the case, may I be corrected.
RE: Here's the truth. - Spaced - 06-20-2013
What if the entity(ies) you are channeling aren't of Q'uo and that is just a label that YOU applied to them? What if you are channeling information from this source and attributing it to Q'uo and then publishing it on the website of a group of veteran researchers of channeled material who originally channeled Q'uo.
This is all hypothetical but surely you can see the conflict of interest here. L/L Research is committed to making sure their message remains undistorted.
RE: Here's the truth. - Jade - 06-20-2013
I think maybe, as it is understood to me, that L/L has a reputation to maintain and their database is so large that if someone who was newly exposed to Q'uo etc might come here and read perhaps an entity's channelings that may be partly incriminating, and not vetted to the standards that L/L holds. The conflicts in material could be used by people outside of the forum community to discredit L/L. Maybe you should start a separate blog and link to the outside source, I presume that would be allowed, with a disclaimer attached.
I am no stranger to feeling completely... let's say catalyzed... by the admin of a community that I hold dearly. It's very frustrating but this L/L's whole life's research. At this point you are in a state of "toying around" with Q'uo, at least compared to the work they have done. I am just attempting to see from their point of view, trust me I empathize with your side very completely.
Since you do believe you are talking to Q'uo, maybe you should try their advice on the situation. Also, perhaps this is why you were "advised" by another entity not to publicly disclose your relationship.
Much much love and light, my dear.
RE: Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
(06-20-2013, 12:51 PM)Spaced Wrote: What if the entity(ies) you are channeling aren't of Q'uo and that is just a label that YOU applied to them? What if you are channeling information from this source and attributing it to Q'uo and then publishing it on the website of a group of veteran researchers of channeled material who originally channeled Q'uo.
This is all hypothetical but surely you can see the conflict of interest here. L/L Research is committed to making sure their message remains undistorted.
I gave fair warning. I think people are smart enough to realize that people do indeed lie on the internet. Additionally, I posted in the proper board of Non-L/L Research channelings.
Let me emphasize: I did not claim that it certainly was Q'uo. The only reasonable implication is that it could be.
No freewill was infringed.
There can be a compromise here and that is allowing people to attempt channel these entities with a warning that they are not L/L Research's channelings. This is a reasonable compromise. The only thing to fear from this compromise is a loss of control.
(06-20-2013, 12:52 PM)Guenivere Wrote: It's very frustrating but this L/L's whole life's research. At this point you are in a state of "toying around" with Q'uo, at least compared to the work they have done. I am just attempting to see from their point of view, trust me I empathize with your side very completely.I am not messing with their research. I did not affliate myself with their research.
However, they do not own Q'uo. Under copyright law they might and if they choose to use that tactic of control, so be it.
RE: Here's the truth. - Spaced - 06-20-2013
There is a difference I think between asking you not to channel Q'uo and asking you not to post the results on this site. You remain free as ever to do as you wish, just as the owners of this site are free to do as they wish.
RE: Here's the truth. - zenmaster - 06-20-2013
Since Q'uo is essentially Carla, were you channelling her as well?
RE: Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
(06-20-2013, 01:05 PM)Spaced Wrote: You remain free as ever to do as you wish, just as the owners of this site are free to do as they wish.Spaced, they may own the infrastructure but they do not own the members of the community.
We give this place value in the first place. This forum is nothing without us.
Your opinions, your voice has meaning. As a member of the community, if you believe that material should be restricted, so be it. If you wish to unequivocally submit to their authority, so be it. However, my friend, you indeed have power. We all have power here. It is not inherently sold.
We have the power to say we will only participate in this community happily if we can only discuss the ones of Q'uo without discrimination. I only present this as an option.
RE: Here's the truth. - Spaced - 06-20-2013
I know I have power, which is why I feel no need to struggle against others to prove it.
RE: Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
(06-20-2013, 01:16 PM)Spaced Wrote: I know I have power, which is why I feel no need to struggle against others to prove it.
One can choose to be completely sovereign while sacrificing the ability to freely exchange and communicate with others.
Unequivocal freedom on a social level in a incarnative realm is not simply a matter of acceptance. This type of freedom has to be fought for. It does not inherently exist.
RE: Here's the truth. - Hototo - 06-20-2013
My recommendation is that we all take a good long deep breath and resume this debate in a few days.
RE: Here's the truth. - Jade - 06-20-2013
(06-20-2013, 01:19 PM)Adonai One Wrote:(06-20-2013, 01:16 PM)Spaced Wrote: I know I have power, which is why I feel no need to struggle against others to prove it.
One can choose to be completely sovereign while sacrificing the ability to freely exchange and communicate with others.
Unequivocal freedom on a social level in a incarnative realm is not simply a matter of acceptance. This type of freedom has to be fought for. It does not inherently exist.
I prefer to weigh the pros and cons upon which battles I want to fight. Your fight is indeed the good fight, but in this case the loser is L/L Research, who pays their bills with this website. I really feel if you were to create a separate blog and link it here, that it would be a completely adequate compromise, to allow current and potential forum-goers to have access to your channelings but with enough buffer room that if in case you were to suddenly go "off the rocker" as sometimes happens with well-intentioned channelers, that it wouldn't reflect poorly in any way upon their business and life's work.
Good luck. I think you would have a lot of people's support if you just made a wordpress or something for us to peruse your channelings.
RE: Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
(06-20-2013, 01:40 PM)Guenivere Wrote:I don't even want to post channelings on here any more. I am speaking on the principle of it all.(06-20-2013, 01:19 PM)Adonai One Wrote:(06-20-2013, 01:16 PM)Spaced Wrote: I know I have power, which is why I feel no need to struggle against others to prove it.
One can choose to be completely sovereign while sacrificing the ability to freely exchange and communicate with others.
Unequivocal freedom on a social level in a incarnative realm is not simply a matter of acceptance. This type of freedom has to be fought for. It does not inherently exist.
I prefer to weigh the pros and cons upon which battles I want to fight. Your fight is indeed the good fight, but in this case the loser is L/L Research, who pays their bills with this website. I really feel if you were to create a separate blog and link it here, that it would be a completely adequate compromise, to allow current and potential forum-goers to have access to your channelings but with enough buffer room that if in case you were to suddenly go "off the rocker" as sometimes happens with well-intentioned channelers, that it wouldn't reflect poorly in any way upon their business and life's work.
Good luck. I think you would have a lot of people's support if you just made a wordpress or something for us to peruse your channelings.
My dream is seeing a board of people attempting to channel any entity they please and letting the community here help them and support them as they see fit without any prejudice or desire to control; All with fair warning that these people have not yet built reputation.
This a matter of culture to me and not my own personal limitations. At this point, I could not care less if they banned me.
I feel it is my duty to voice this concern. I make no demands. I only wish to evoke thought into the willing minds that read this.
RE: Here's the truth. - Alex Zachary - 06-20-2013
The key is to not try so much.
RE: Here's the truth. - Spaced - 06-20-2013
I like that dream Adonai, make it happen
RE: Here's the truth. - Unbound - 06-20-2013
Can I ask why you are interested in channeling Q'uo, rather than say, your own guides or another entity of love and light? Is it because Q'uo has been channeled before that you are curious about the objective nature as possibly experienced through different instruments?
I just don't fully understand the attachments. I understand the desire for freedom of communication, open information and exploration. I understand wanting to share and partake in community with what one is discovering. I understand the excitement of spiritual exploration.
Forgive my analogies, but it is a medium of expression that works for me. I see multiple perspectives here, and really side with none of them, but think they should all be used for learning.
From one view I see a boy who is drawing and colouring and is so excited about the picture he has drawn thay he goes to show it to his parents but although they encourage his endeavour, they do not put it up on the fridge. From the point of view of the boy, it is easy to empathize with the disappointment and feeling controlled and oppressed.
From another view I see two individuals, we'll call em Jim and Joe, who have been friends for years and working endlessly through discussion and process to create a book or any other piece of art. They have developed a relationship and a system of philosophy for their work between them. Then, one day one of them, Joe, meets another individual, Bob and they become friends, and after only a few conversations, this new individual decides they want to work with Joe to make the same kind of book or project as the two friends had been working on for years, but with only a few conversations Bob starts to advertise his book, using Joe's name attached to the idea.
Naturally, it can be understandable how Jim, upon discovering this, might be upset with Bob because it would feel like a theft of both identity and idea.
So my point with both of these analogies is the realization that everything comes down to perspective, and any situation is ultimately defined by its perspectives. Each perspective will have its own reasoning, justification and emotion behind their perspective which reinforces it.
Person 1: "This is the way it is because of ____________"
Person 2: "This is the way it should be because ___________"
Person 1: "It could be that way, by all means, but because of ___________ it is the way it is."
Person 2: "But because of __________ it is ___________, so it should not be that way. It should be this way, if it is not, then you are ___________"
Person 1: "But if it was that way, then it would be __________, so thus, we have it this way."
Person 2: "Then you are _________ because it is that way, if it was this way, you wouldn't be that."
Person 1: "It is the way it is because of _________."
Person 2: "That is not actually how it is though, it is __________. If it was the way you say it is and not this way then it would be ________."
Person 1: "This is how it is because of ________ and that is why it is _______"
Etc, etc, rinse and repeat.
Perhaps you can see my point in the folly of battling perspectives aha
Personally, I am indifferent as to sides because I cannot see either gaining any sort of benefit over the other. To me, it isn't about sides, or even ideas or differences, but it has to do with relationships and power play. It is not about "the way it is", its about how the way it is is perceived and reacted to.
All in all, I think more than anything this is all continuing catalyst in the integration of all selves in the awareness of ourselves as a collective body.
Every part of the body has to be shaped a particular way in order to fulfill its function. Certain regulations in the body relate to some organs and not others. There are organs in the body which do totally opposite things but work in conjunction. When the signals and communication between organs gets disorganized, there are mixed signals and the distinct unity of each organ begins to be muddled by the vibrations of other organs and processes slow down.
RE: Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
(06-20-2013, 01:59 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Can I ask why you are interested in channeling Q'uo, rather than say, your own guides or another entity of love and light? Is it because Q'uo has been channeled before that you are curious about the objective nature as possibly experienced through different instruments?It's not relevant anymore. Until the culture of this board has changed, under my own will I will not post any channelings from anybody.
As for your last question, that is one reason of many.
(06-20-2013, 01:59 PM)TheEternal Wrote: From one view I see a boy who is drawing and colouring and is so excited about the picture he has drawn thay he goes to show it to his parents but although they encourage his endeavour, they do not put it up on the fridge. From the point of view of the boy, it is easy to empathize with the disappointment and feeling controlled and oppressed.I did not ask for my stuff to be published on the official L/L Research fridge. I ask them to be published with other unofficial works in a unofficial board.
You do not empathize nor understand my position if that's your analogy. If you view this as an exclusive art gallery where everyone is applauding select and approved works, then I don't know what to say.
I thought this was intended to be a community of seekers on equal ground.
Also, parents? What? I recognize no such authority.
RE: Here's the truth. - Unbound - 06-20-2013
Aha The analogy was intended to bring attention to emotional interplay and experience, not the details of publishing or family heirachy.
Forgive my use of imagery, I used it to emphasize the intensity of an emotion by using a child in the analogy.
RE: Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
(06-20-2013, 02:09 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Aha The analogy was intended to bring attention to emotional interplay and experience, not the details of publishing or family heirachy.
Forgive my use of imagery, I used it to emphasize the intensity of an emotion by using a child in the analogy.
You partially have my understanding. I will contemplate your words.
RE: Here's the truth. - Unbound - 06-20-2013
It all comes down to how each individual feels in relation to their perspective. I do empathize with you, really, your excitement over channeling is perhaps the most joy I have ever felt from you, you were going in a direction. I understand in the extreme the desire to share what is being discovered, it is something that burns within me too.
However, I am also able to see the exact same burning in others as well. This is what seems to make this forum such a hotspot for emotional interplay. When I see you, I see a seeker striving to apply what has been learn and to teach those learnings in turn. When I see, say, the moderators, I also see seekers striving to apply what they have learned and to teach those learnings in turn.
What we are learning and what we are teaching are intertwined, but they are an input and output. The input of learning is variable, it comes from many sources and are all integrated in the self which are then externalized as one's own body of teaching in whatever capacity that is. If we are teaching and not learning, then we are closed to the world. If we are learning and not teaching, then we are closing ourselves to others.
I have, so far, seen complete honesty on all sides, and so in the face of that honesty I simply seek the truth of unity.
RE: Here's the truth. - Ankh - 06-20-2013
Who are you "fighting", Adonai One? It is certainly not L/L Research I hope? Cause there is nothing to fight in my opinion. If you want to channel Q'uo? By all means! As long as you don't claim to *be* L/L Research channeling Q'uo, which I don't see that you do, then - go ahead!
You are certainly not the first one to attempt to channel Q'uo/Ra either, for that matter. Here, take a look. Here are the threads made by our members who are/were claiming to channel Ra:
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=6399
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=6200
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=1986
And here is one blog about it:
http://www.bring4th.org/members.php?uid=107&catid=all
Have you seen L/L Research deleting any of these threads, or in any other way being in the way of these seeker's work? What are you upset about really?
On a more personal level, I am worried about *you*, when/if you attempt these things on your own, without the love/light as a protection, which the group energy offers to the instrument. But hey! You *are* the Creator, exercising the power of your own free will.
Chose wisely what to manifest, my brother, and follow your heart. May your dreams lead you to a beautiful place.
Adonai.
/ 
RE: Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
(06-20-2013, 02:31 PM)Ankh Wrote: Have you seen L/L Research deleting any of these threads, or in any other way being in the way of these seeker's work? What are you upset about really?They deleted mine. Well, apparently it's preserved somewhere away from view. Maybe not.
Why are the others preserved? I have no idea. I suspect I am not considered kosher due to my methods and beliefs.
(06-20-2013, 02:31 PM)Ankh Wrote: On a more personal level, I am worried about *you*, when/if you attempt these things on your own, without the love/light as a protection, which the group energy offers to the instrument. But hey! You *are* the Creator, exercising the power of your own free will.
I cannot be spiritually imprisoned out of my own freewill. An attack every now and then is good catalyst.
That goes without saying I have my methods of protection.
RE: Here's the truth. - Unbound - 06-20-2013
Redacted: Repeated myself, hehe.
RE: Here's the truth. - Ankh - 06-20-2013
Huh... How about that?
I am sorry then, my brothers! I didn't know about that. :-/
RE: Here's the truth. - Bring4th_Austin - 06-20-2013
I just wanted to pop in to bring up the fact that we, as moderators of Bring4th, have not been consistent in handling these types of threads due to the fact that L/L Research has not yet taken an official stance on the matter. The need for this expressed official opinion is made obvious by this particular event. This can't really be done without the mind of GLB who will be unavailable for discussion for a few days, but when he is available then L/L will discuss this and land on an official stance and we wwill handle these with consistency.
In the mean time, this community discussion exploring this topic will be a great learning opportunity for all and any ideas expressed here will be considered when L/L Research enters discussion on an official stance.
Thanks all.
RE: Here's the truth. - Brittany - 06-20-2013
I have been involuntarily involved in this discussion to the point I feel that it's time for me to actually join in.
I will firstly say that I have long given up the idea of trying to "revolutionize the forum." The state of a memory complex is dictated by the state of its members as a whole, and depending on what signals are being input into the master program, the coding that defines the state of the whole is manifested. I feel that embodying those qualities I believe to express unity, harmony, wisdom, compassion and overall unconditional love within my own being is the best contribution I can offer to the environments that I partake in. That being said, I offer mere questions based on my perceptions of what is going on.
1. The need for a strict set of rules within a community is another topic entirely. However, this community does, in fact, possess rules, and everyone who joined this community agreed to respect those rules to the best of their ability upon joining. Therefore, if you find a rule to be outdated, would it be more appropriate to voice your concerns in an open and loving sense, allowing the community the opportunity to consider the issue as a whole and inspire natural consensus evolution, or is it more appropriate to simply break the rule and do whatever you want, just because you feel personally justified in doing so? What level of respect, empathy and service is presented by either of these options?
2. I know of at least two other cases where members of this forum have openly claimed to channel/have direct contact with Ra/Q'uo, and at least one of them did so in a way that caused quite a stir amongst forum members, as it was entirely contradictory to the previous traditional material. As far as I know, no disciplinary action was taken against either of these members, so I am curious as to what brand of selective reasoning is being applied here. Where is the consistency in standards? Are decisions made entirely on executive whim?
3. Why does it seem impossible for forum members and moderators to have an open, loving, public blue ray expression? Now, I know every last one of the moderators of this forum, as well as Jim and Carla themselves, on a personal level. They are all wonderful, loving people. I also know a great many of the forum members on a personal basis, and can vouch for an underlying current of sanity and an honest desire to seek in a wise and caring way. Yet when it comes to interaction between the two, it always seems to happen in some private, covert sense that leaves at least one party feeling ashamed, confused or even bullied. I have experienced this sense of being gang banged myself in one or two instances, though most fortunately I have the ability to talk with the moderators as my friends any time I want and the feelings incurred were able to be balanced in a quick fashion. Not everyone has this privilege, though, and I have heard countless opinions that "the moderators" are just unpleasant fellows who like to lord it over the forum.
In my opinion, this is not at all true, but it is a very real and prevalent thought form. Is there no reason this thought form cannot be brought into the light by all members of this community, lovingly embraced, balanced and reintegrated? I understand that in some instances privacy is the ideal measure, yet is so much separation between executive power and general contributor really necessary? As far as I can tell, those at the helm of this forum have always done their best to consider the desires of the forum members, going so far as to create new categories for them to express themselves in new ways. However, all final decisions are still decided in private, behind closed doors, and, as far as I can tell, based around personal belief systems instead of community consensus. Is this truly reflective of the loving principles this forum strives to uphold?
I have been told in the past that the ideal of a forum run entirely upon group consensus was absolutely impossible, and, perhaps, at least in this circumstance, it is. It is perhaps not my perfect version of reality, but this does nothing to lesson the respect and love I feel for all parties involved, and not nearly enough of a break in my own personal morals system for me to feel the need to separate myself from those I feel offer great potential for collective service. Therefore, I simply let these questions stand as they are and wish everyone well. You are all dear in my heart.
RE: Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
(06-20-2013, 02:46 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: I just wanted to pop in to bring up the fact that we, as moderators of Bring4th, have not been consistent in handling these types of threads due to the fact that L/L Research has not yet taken an official stance on the matter. The need for this expressed official opinion is made obvious by this particular event. This can't really be done without the mind of GLB who will be unavailable for discussion for a few days, but when he is available then L/L will discuss the and land on an official stance and we will handle these with consistency.Thank you so very much. You have my full appreciation.
In the mean time, this community discussion exploring this topic will be a great learning opportunity for all and any ideas expressed here will be considered when L/L the Research enters discussion on an official stance.
Thanks all.
All I want in the end is to see this discussed.
RE: Here's the truth. - Brittany - 06-20-2013
Hmm..perhaps I should have bothered to read the entire thread. It seems that several answers to my questions have already been provided! <blushes sheepishly>
RE: Here's the truth. - Unbound - 06-20-2013
Everyone words their questions and answers a little differently, I think it is good that your words be seen for there are none other like them.
RE: Here's the truth. - Brittany - 06-20-2013
I suppose I could go ahead and insert this suggestion here. A sub-forum created specifically to deal with these sorts of issues. Whenever an issue of disciplinary action comes up, be it the deleting of the post or the banning of a member, the involved member(s) would have the choice of making the resulting discussion public or private. Therefore, even if executive power was retained in making a decision, members would have a more open, encouraging atmosphere in which to contribute their thoughts on the matter if it was agreed to allow the issue to be publicly observed. Heck, maybe a few suggestions could be offered that neither party would have thought of themselves!
I understand that in some extreme cases this is really not an option, such as when someone is behaving in a threatening manner or hacking the site like a few previous members have done. I'm also not at all suggesting we give ourselves up to anarchy and reducing this community to a taking of sides which then battle it out to decide a victor. However, I feel a little more transparency and public involvement could do absolute wonders for these repeating scenarios. As of now it seems that this is merely an ongoing issue that no one really wants to seriously address, instead deciding to let it fester and grow, resulting in more and more (increasingly dramatic) occurrences.
Of course, I'm not especially well-versed in how the moderative process works, and I realize there may be a good deal of perspective I do not currently have access to. I also realize that instigating change to that degree could be difficult and time consuming, requiring actual man power which may or may not be available, and I'm also unsure what measures could be taken to *prevent* the whole thing from dissolving into the usual arguments which would wind up diluting the topic at hand. It is by no means a perfect scenario. Therefore I present this just as a suggestion, not a demand, and I would be thrilled if anyone could think up a way to improve the suggestion, or come up with an even better one.
Also, this may be derailing, I'm not even sure at this point. I apologize if this post requires moving, it seems this issue is all over the forum now and may as well be dropped anywhere that retains some relevance to the topic, but I could be distorted in that perspective.
***Edited for typo and addition of info I felt was relevant. No info was removed.
***Claims lack of desire to get involved, then turns around and gets involved anyway. Wat are you doing, Lynn?***
RE: Here's the truth. - Adonai One - 06-20-2013
Thanks for making things objective, Lynn. Valid suggestions that I absolutely agree with.
I am in a superposition: I can accept whatever occurs but I also have a preference since I am being of polarity within a realm of choice.
All will always be well. All causes are just. All desires are just. All is perfect.