this is so amazingly painful

[norral]

just to be clear i am talking about the incident that happened in conneticut where 26 people including 20 children all under the age of 8 were killed when the gunman went off. obviously he had severe mental problems. it begs the question why if u have a child who has these kind of problems would u keep heavy weaponry in the house. i dont know we will never know.
yes the u.s. military has been killing people around the world for years. the soldiers are not the ones who send themselves to other countries it is the politicos for their varied reasons.
pickle i appreciate very much that last post of yours about the compassion u were feeling .
yes as a country we are oblivious to all the suffering we inflict on the rest of the world. but we are not the only ones that is for sure. the rulers all over the world in varying degrees participate in this too. look at north korea, myanamar, several countries in africa, what happened in bosnia, i mean u could just go on and on. look at how workers are treated in so many places in the world, basically as slaves. imho it is all about conciousness and feeling some connection to your fellow human beings no ? the more connected we are the less likely we are going to cause suffering in others.
so we go on. this incident will not stop us from advancing , perhaps for a little while . what i was saying is i am grieving and mourning for the families, i am feeling sadness. its ok . i want to feel sad right now . i will get over it. i feel sadness for the fact we are so very very violent. i feel sad that we as human beings are not crazy in love with each other. that we are so distracted and perfectly capable of ignoring each others suffering. i try to be sensistive to the situations of others , i want to be sensitive to the situations of others, i do take a genuine interest in peoples welfare. when i see people making minimum wage it distresses me especially compared to the crimes committed every day on wall street where trillions of dollars is thrown around.
this planet is painful . there is just no other way to put it. i enjoy my life . i have a good life and a great family so i am blessed. that does not make me oblivious to the suffering of others. i hate povery i absolutely hate seeing others suffer whether it is financially or physically or emotionally . i hate it. and the funny thing i have been feeling so up and so mellow lately. i have been able to set aside some issues which are very long term for me which is good . and wham we are hit with a hammer over the head. it is painful . but i and everyone else will get thru. this incident is not going to stop me from loving, it is not going to fill me with hate, but it will leave its traces in my heart forever.

norral

[Guardian]

Look at passage 42.4

[norral]

here is a good vid by bill ballard that touches on this situation. i belive there was mind control involved For what it's worth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OAZVzzcu...e=youtu.be

[Plenum]

ok, thanks norral. I don't watch the news anymore, so I'm really out of the loop.

and I think Pickle's right; everything is an exercise in love and compassion.

let us pray that the gunman may find peace with himself

namaste

[hogey11]

Wonder if it will be strange to find that none of the children tried to run? What might that mean?

At first I read this as sarcasm, but with your second comment, pickle, even if it was, you seem to have given an answer already.

I don't know if there is 'foul play' involved with this or not, as tragedies can happen without conspiracy, but I will say that it's quite interesting that both the LIBOR transcripts and QE4 were launched the day before the incident. Between those two stories, you have the largest financial fraud in history and the total QE packages now totalling almost $1 Trillion per year just to tread water moving forward. There are definitely things to be distracting from, but ultimately, it does not matter. No amount of reasoning or conspiracy will make this better for the families involved.

Thank you for your 'report' from the other side, Pickle. I'm not very good at that kinda stuff, so knowing they are beaming us compassion in the light of everything is very comforting. All is well. Nothing is lost. Love and light to everyone

[norral]

my son told me his mother would take him shooting at ranges. she taught him how to shoot. and she knew he was off. and she had high powered weapons at the house. bottom line the mother contributed greatly to this incident. his mom was an avid gun collector .

[Monica]

my son told me his mother would take him shooting at ranges. she taught him how to shoot. and she knew he was off. and she had high powered weapons at the house. bottom line the mother contributed greatly to this incident. his mom was an avid gun collector .

I wouldn't blame the mom, who was probably doing what she thought was necessary to teach her son how to stay safe. She is most certainly feeling extreme anguish right now - we can't even imagine - and surely never imagined that teaching her son how to defend himself would result in him killing innocent children.

Rather, I would look to the psychiatric drugs the young man was taking - again, most surely with good intentions from his mother and doctor. Virtually all the school killers were taking some sort of psychiatric drug.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhO0Pul_F...e=youtu.be

[hogey11]

I'm pretty sure he killed his mother in the attack, Monica...

I'm not going to make any conclusive comments as to 'why?' until some time from now. The MSM is not going to give you a true or fair representation of things; looking at it from the aggregate will give much better perspective a couple weeks from now, imo.

It could have been depression or mental illness. It could have been the pharma prescriptions or a bad mix of drugs. It could have been parental neglect and emotional torture. He could have been a 'trigger', as he was in similar care as what most of the MK Ultra or Project Monarch subjects were in when they ran the program in the 50s to 70s. He could have also just been a guy who had a really, REALLY bad day and didn't see a way out so he went YOLO on it.

The reasons don't matter. All of those things should be addressed regardless of the circumstances. I love what Pickle has been saying because I think we all know from a Law of One philosophy that this was event was a sacrifice for a hopefully much bigger gain on behalf of experience. What events like this do more than anything else is galvanize action and force people on the fence to get off one way or another. Access to assault weaponry and tools of war should be regulated to high heaven for multiple obvious reasons. Keep them under secure measures at the ranges in which they can be used. Mental illness shouldn't be marginalized and should be treated the same as physical injury; however, we must get much much better at treatment as well with better approaches than pharmacological band-aids. Communities and families shouldn't be getting to the point of dysfunction where somebody will do something like this with no warning signs given or anybody caring beforehand. Often, these cases are things that would have never happened a long time ago like they do now (and with the frequency) in that we as a culture have plugged in and tuned out. Not everybody pays attention anymore. These are things all of us can bring light to and work on. We can be better communities to one another. If we see a friend who seems down, try to help them rather than 'giving them their space'. That's double talk for 'i'm scared of them getting mad at me for caring about them'. Even if it goes over poorly and they are not comfortable, they're not going to blame you if you show them respect and do it from a place of love. This is the inherent challenge - how do we respond to this with love?

[BrownEye]

It could have been the pharma prescriptions or a bad mix of drugs.

It is known that psychotropics create an opening, which allows for possession. This allows for an easy transition.

The other thing I was told, which I just remembered, is that the group of children are considered a "beacon".

[Monica]

I'm pretty sure he killed his mother in the attack, Monica...

I haven't been keeping up with all the details. As a mother, I tend to be protective of anything that seems to blame the parents...most parents try so hard to raise their kids right. But I know nothing about this particular mother and her son. I just meant that the drugs seem much more likely to have contributed to this than being taught how to use a gun.

I love what Pickle has been saying because I think we all know from a Law of One philosophy that this was event was a sacrifice for a hopefully much bigger gain on behalf of experience. What events like this do more than anything else is galvanize action and force people on the fence to get off one way or another.

Agreed!

Access to assault weaponry and tools of war should be regulated to high heaven for multiple obvious reasons.

I used to think that too, until someone pointed out that criminals don't obey laws.

If we see a friend who seems down, try to help them rather than 'giving them their space'. That's double talk for 'i'm scared of them getting mad at me for caring about them'. Even if it goes over poorly and they are not comfortable, they're not going to blame you if you show them respect and do it from a place of love. This is the inherent challenge - how do we respond to this with love?

Well said! I agree 100%! It is very trendy in New Age circle, even here at B4, to say "tsk tsk that is YOUR issue...must be karmic" and not ever bother to ask the person what is bothering them, allow them to share their story or even vent their feelings if necessary, and offer a shoulder to cry on. Especially if the person has anger, hurt or resentment directed at the 'New Age' person, the 'New Age' person will often flippantly say "you are projecting onto me...I release you" and be on their way. That approach is very self-oriented, not love/compassion oriented. They might have good intentions but not realize that they are actually in denial about their own feelings or involvement in the situation, and not realize that they are unable to express themselves due to blue ray blockage. So they tell themselves "I cannot help that person...I can only 'release' them' and miss an opportunity for true compassion and service.

In the event of hearing about tragedies on the news, those same 'New Age' types often just blow it off, saying "that is their karma...all is perfect" without recognizing the opportunity for allowing the catalyst to generate compassion or even action on their part.

[BrownEye]

I think we all know from a Law of One philosophy that this event was a sacrifice for a hopefully much bigger gain on behalf of experience. What events like this do more than anything else is galvanize action and force people on the fence to get off one way or another.

This is it I think. On top of this there is "new energy available", which can be imagined as unfocused beams or radiation. The event itself as a "beacon" (a focal point) allows for a vast amount of people to connect to this energy and manifest with this energy, or co-create with this new energy available. Sort of like dropping the attachments to old energies of society and linking up to this new energy. Light seems to be a carrier of information. I am betting that "inside" this new energy is new information as well.

---

I am starting to understand the "anchor" concept.

[BrownEye]

'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother'

[hogey11]

I used to think that too, until someone pointed out that criminals don't obey laws.

There are levels to it tho. I'm not saying ban hunting rifles. I'm saying ban domestic use of powerful assault weapons, or at least regulate them so they are secure. If that means we keep all automatic weaponry in secure lockers on-site at whatever shooting range we claim we use them on, we should do that. If it means that we outlaw the use of automatic weapons so we can better identify those who are outside of the law, then we should do that. This idea that people need to be able to shoot assault rifles to garner large number of facebook likes is ridiculous (what else are they using them for?)

I live in Canada, where we are allowed guns for things like hunting and such, but there are restrictions on assault weapons and tools of war. If I was to try to get one of those type of weapons, I would have to go through the underground. The underground doesn't have a storefront, nor do they do business with any person who comes to them. When trafficking guns is a federal crime with a massive penalty, even the underground wants to know what the purpose and why these weapons are being used as they can be tracked back. Additionally, the cost is head and shoulders due to the black market. I'm thinking that's a lot of hoops to jump through for a mentally unstable kid on all sorts of drugs at once. Just sayin'...

Again, i'm not saying get rid of guns. I'm saying draw a line somewhere. I would personally draw a line at automatic weapons because the damage an assault rifle can cause is many times that what even a handgun can cause. On the same day, there was an attack on 23 children in China by a man with a knife. Horrific, but ultimately, there were no deaths. It's hard to actually kill somebody with a knife unless they bleed out; with a gun I think it gets a little easier. That is more or less my point, but I also should say it's only one part of the problem. Guns don't kill people; people kill people (easier with guns)

---

These are the gun used in the attack. Look at their 'features' - 5 bullets per second for the handguns? 30 round magazine for the assault rifle?

Why do domestic citizens need tools like this? What are the justifications? If there are any, i'd be interested to know...

---

[Monica]

'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother'

What a heart-wrenching story!!

This part leapt out at me:

He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans.

I wonder which came first: the violent behavior or the drugs? The mother didn't say what his first symptoms were. I wonder if he was on ritalin or something like that when he was very young?

There has always been mental illness. But mental illness combined with the poisonous cocktail of drugs children get starting as babies, + allergy meds, ritalin, andtidepressants, etc. create a toxic mess that disrupts mental function and sometimes turns a mentally ill but nonviolent person into a killer. One can only wonder how many ticking time bombs there are out there. So sad.

Let's all have a moment of prayer for this mother and others like her.

[BrownEye]

[hogey11]

So gossip has become illegal?

[zenmaster]

So gossip has become illegal?

No hogey, you can relax and keep your right to gossip: http://phys.org/news/2012-12-police-soci...oaxes.html

[hogey11]

how can they determine if someone 'knew' they were peddling misinformation or not?

---

Shortly after the story first broke, news reports surfaced referencing a Facebook page attributed to Ryan Lanza, the name initially believed to be that of the gunman, who was later identified as Adam Lanza. It had first been floated after police found an ID bearing that name on the gunman's body. The ID turned out to belong to the 20-year-old's brother.

It was the police who started the 'misinformation'. Will they be charged like the others?

[xise]

Access to assault weaponry and tools of war should be regulated to high heaven for multiple obvious reasons.

I used to think that too, until someone pointed out that criminals don't obey laws.

Making weapons illegal won't make them impossible to get, after all there's always a black market, but supply and demand will make it harder to get, which will cut down on the opportunity and frequency of crime involving those weapons.

---

how can they determine if someone 'knew' they were peddling misinformation or not?

---

Shortly after the story first broke, news reports surfaced referencing a Facebook page attributed to Ryan Lanza, the name initially believed to be that of the gunman, who was later identified as Adam Lanza. It had first been floated after police found an ID bearing that name on the gunman's body. The ID turned out to belong to the 20-year-old's brother.

It was the police who started the 'misinformation'. Will they be charged like the others?

To borrow a quote: The king's men are above reproach.

Here's hoping that changes in 4D

[norral]

yes anti psychosis drugs definitely have some nasty affects. i mean what sense does it make to take an anti depressant which makes u suicidal. i personally dont get that one. our whole approach to mental health needs to be reworked. it needs to be taken out of the dark and brought into the open and the stigma attached to it needs to be released and reduced. it is a problem just like kidney stones are a problem . we dont condemn people for having kidney stones we shouldnt condemn them for having a mental illnes. something as simple as the bach flowers would help a lot of people . chanting mantras would help a lot of people. of course these ideas will meet huge resistance in the present conciousness but i am hopeful for the future. may this event in some way bring about some positive changes on this planet.

norral

---

i just wanted to add one more thought here For what it's worth. of course this is incredibly painful for our country and for anyone who has a heart. heres a conclusion i come too because of things like this.

1. i live with no fear to the best of my ability. if it is my time to go so be it i will not go in fear i will leave this planet as a lion.

2. since this life that we live is so full of surprises, some of which we dont like at all, we might as well make the most of each day. this event just makes me more determined to be a positive force each and every day and if this day is my last so be it, at least i will know that i didnt hold back , that i didnt let myself be overcome by negativity.

3. i have absolutely no hatred for the shooter or his family . stuff like this is out of my control. if god permits these things to happen so be it. what is in my power is to be a force for good in my own little circle. if i succeed in doing that i will leave this earth happy

horral

[hogey11]

No hogey, you can relax and keep your right to gossip

zen - this doesn't affect me. i'm in canada. i have no rights to keep here. I don't really get your comment either... you just posted the exact same thing as Pickle, which is what my comment was referring to. It doesn't really make sense to me.

[Cyan]

Making weapons illegal will almost certainly both lower their price, and increase their lethality.

[xise]

Making weapons illegal will almost certainly both lower their price, and increase their lethality.

I think our experience with making drugs illegal versus making weapons illegal tells us differently as far as price and availability. Drugs are easy to smuggle because they are (1) completely nonmetal (2) can be hidden in the human body (3) net size is extremely small. Whereas weapons are (1) at least partially metal (2) cannot be hidden in the human body (3) net size of even a small automatic pistol is magnitudes larger than coke, meth, heroin, or alcohol.

I think that's why we don't see tons of soviet era small arms weaponry flooding the US black market. They aren't impossible to get (you know there are definitely criminal gangs/cartels in the us that want some and they definately all over central and south america!) but they are just orders of magnitude harder to smuggle as opposed to drugs.

Then again, reasonable people may differ!

[hogey11]

no, you are right, xise. Apples to oranges.

Nobody has attempted to answer my question either. Taking hunting rifles and non-automatic pistols out of this, what are the justifications for domestic citizens needing assault weapons and automatic firearms?

I'm not even saying we have to outright ban them. Set up secured gun lockers at all shooting ranges that are qualified to handle those types of guns and make people store them there. I think banning all guns is an overreach and isn't necessary, but I think banning or limiting guns that have no value other than being able to kill more people quicker is something to be explored

[xise]

no, you are right, xise. Apples to oranges.

Nobody has attempted to answer my question either. Taking hunting rifles and non-automatic pistols out of this, what are the justifications for domestic citizens needing assault weapons and automatic firearms?

I'm not even saying we have to outright ban them. Set up secured gun lockers at all shooting ranges that are qualified to handle those types of guns and make people store them there. I think banning all guns is an overreach and isn't necessary, but I think banning or limiting guns that have no value other than being able to kill more people quicker is something to be explored

I don't know if you are going to have any takers to your question, but some reasons I've heard:

(1) I've met a lot of people who think guns are cool (I kind of still do think they are cool but I'm fascinated by all military hardware, but I still think they should be banned);
(2) They make you feel safe. Many women who aren't power hungry but are fearful have told me that they plan on or have a revolver for "self-defense" because they are helpless females and mace isn't enough.
(3) They make you feel strong. Many guys just like the feeling of power, the feeling of having the power over life and death. A lot of my criminal clients, especially gang members, idolize the gun as a symbol of power, and of life and death.
(4) There are "strict" constructionists who believe that because it's the 2nd Amendment, that ends the argument and we should never change what was set forth in our constitution. Not saying I agree or find this logically consistent, but it is a position I come across. And that we have a right to arm ourselves, for self-defense, and defense against a tyrannical government.

Just some thoughts.

[hogey11]

I don't really expect any takers either...

Taking the reasons you bring up into play tho...

1) For people wanting fun, have secured gun ranges where all automatic and assault weaponry is kept on the premises under guard and key. People can pay a premium for wanting to handle such dangerous machinery purely for novelty.

2) I think non-automatic small arms are viable for safety measures. I don't necessarily think all guns should be made illegal...

3) The 'strong' aspect is a tough one, because guns certainly hold and grant an immense amount of power. Can't argue against that one, except on a moral/ethical level (is that the type of power most of us are truly looking for?)

4) This is the only one where I think there might be an argument for assault/fully-automatic weapons. That argument would be that if the government were to 'turn' on its citizens, they would have such greater weaponry that any resistance would be futile. Therefore, normal people need rocket launchers. I think this is a fear-based 'lowest common denominator' type of argument. We all know I like a good conspiracy theory or two, but I am not one who believes the main body of government is actively trying to imprison their citizens. I think that's silly; conspiracy gone haywire. Besides, if thats the best argument we can come up with, it's not saying too much...

Gun control is not even the big issue with this case. I think we have to be open to doing things better than we have tho. Looking at all aspects is the best way to do that, imo...

[zenmaster]

I don't really expect any takers either...

Taking the reasons you bring up into play tho...

1) For people wanting fun, have secured gun ranges where all automatic and assault weaponry is kept on the premises under guard and key. People can pay a premium for wanting to handle such dangerous machinery purely for novelty.

2) I think non-automatic small arms are viable for safety measures. I don't necessarily think all guns should be made illegal...

3) The 'strong' aspect is a tough one, because guns certainly hold and grant an immense amount of power. Can't argue against that one, except on a moral/ethical level (is that the type of power most of us are truly looking for?)

4) This is the only one where I think there might be an argument for assault/fully-automatic weapons. That argument would be that if the government were to 'turn' on its citizens, they would have such greater weaponry that any resistance would be futile. Therefore, normal people need rocket launchers. I think this is a fear-based 'lowest common denominator' type of argument. We all know I like a good conspiracy theory or two, but I am not one who believes the main body of government is actively trying to imprison their citizens. I think that's silly; conspiracy gone haywire. Besides, if thats the best argument we can come up with, it's not saying too much...

Gun control is not even the big issue with this case. I think we have to be open to doing things better than we have tho. Looking at all aspects is the best way to do that, imo...

the essential point is the psychological condition of the attacker.

[reeay]

Past supervisor of mine, a forensic psychologist, worked with a mass murderer 10 years before he went on a rampage. According to him, it's almost impossible to predict what sets off these folks. There could be increased agitation/rage/paranoia, escalation in violent/cruel behaviors, adverse effects of drugs, etc, over a period of time. Sometimes there are no clear pattern.

Limiting guns will only yield temporary changes at best. You'd have to instigate changes in the society as a whole, which means changes within each self.

One thing I did notice while working with parents and children with history of violence/outbursts was that you could detect subtle energetic changes that escalate.

[Monica]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/world/worl...?hpt=wo_t3

[BrownEye]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/world/worl...?hpt=wo_t3

He took his anti-gun campaign around the country, at one stage addressing a hostile pro-gun rally wearing a bullet-proof vest.

LMAO!

---

Ok here is your conspiracy angle. Sandy Hook & Aurora Both In Dark Knight Rises