this is so amazingly painful

[norral]

i dont get it. what possible purpose does this serve ? does it even some account somewhere. is life so random that these things can just appear like that out of nowhere. it is so incredibly frustrating and depressing to think that something like this could happen . i cannot believe that god is somewhere saying to itself that something like this was needed. needed for what ?
and people have been hopeful lately. there has been a lot of optimism out here and then this . 5 year olds ? what the heck .what is the point . its painful. it cast a pall over everything . was that the point. to inflict pain on the human race. to depress people. we have 9 grandkids the two smallest being 3 and 6. i cant even imagine what the families are going thru here. it is not understandable and no explanation could ever bring any resolution anyway.
pain just intense pain

[Aureus]

It's a product of free will. Indeed very, very intense catalyst for those with emotional ties with the 'victims'. When the storm gets strong there is an oppurtunity to find the strength needed to counter it. The potential learning is as great as the reaction itself. Know that there is no such thing as death, and behind the scenes we are all one infinite source of absolute love and understanding.

[TheFifty9Sound]

It's time like this people like us need to lead by example.
Events like this, understandably, leave people shocked, angry and afraid. Those kind of fearful emotions have the potential to gain momentum and spread like wildfire.
We have to show others how to choose love when they can't remember how. Smile at strangers. Leave your door unlocked. Leave something on the table.
In short, whilst refusing to turn a blind eye to the terrors and injustices of the world - insist on love and joy. Always. In spite of everything.

[Meerie]

I think situations like these, as horrible and painful they are, offer great opportunities for people to be of service, showing solidarity and love.
Remember what happened after the Oslo shootings for example, what huge waves of love and compassion that generated all over the world.
to all.

[Horuseus]

"I am Ra. We leave you in appreciation of the circumstances of the great illusion in which you now choose to play the pipe and timbrel and move in rhythm. We are also players upon a stage. The stage changes. The acts ring down. The lights come up once again. And throughout the grand illusion and the following and the following there is the undergirding majesty of the One Infinite Creator. All is well. Nothing is lost. Go forth rejoicing in the love and the light, the peace and the power of the One Infinite Creator. I am Ra. Adonai."

[Brittany]

In truth, this sort of stuff happens every day. Hundreds of children are killed in the senseless wars going on, and hundreds more are dying of poverty, starvation and/or abuse and neglect. They suffer and die without us giving them any particular thought, because the media turning their attention to these events would possibly incite enough compassion in people to lead to an end to war and poverty as we know them, and that wouldn't bode well for the hierarchical system we've got going. The way this tragedy has instantly turned into a media frenzy is fear mongering at its finest- something to turn America's eyes toward fear, hate and controversy in the face of one the greatest opportunities we will ever have to open our hearts and accept love. It is a last ditch effort to drag us down with shock and awe tactics, and I, for one, did not come this far only to give in to despair.

Yes, it's tragic, but we have the potential to make the world more than senseless tragedy by radiating love over fear- in having faith that all is and will be well. Billions of people have died in terrible ways throughout history, many of them now reincarnated here on this forum, opening their hearts in love. The world continues to turn, and the pain is only an illusion. Through forgiveness, all bonds are broken. If you really want to help the families having to deal with this, then turn your heart to love and raise the vibration of the planet we live on. Don't let this propaganda turn your eyes away from that which is at stake.

[norral]

i agree lynn with your thought that this stuff goes on all the time except its overseas and and no one really gives a ____
i have been very outspoken in various venues about my opposition to war and violence and exploitation. so i agree 100 % with that.
my other thoughts is that if u are a teacher u need to be prepared and think about this stuff ahead of time . we have 4 kids 3 are teachers our daughter teaches 2 and 3 year olds. the conclusion i come to if i was a teacher i would buy a couple of very powerful lanterns. why ? to shine it in the face of the perp . automatically they have to look away and stop shooting at people. and i would buy some medium sized ball bearings. why ? to throw at the perp before i tackle them. they need to be distracted and i think those two techniques would work well but i am interested in hearing other ideas. and the idea of teachers carrying guns will not work. most people dont really want to shoot anyone else so i dont think that would work . maybe these ideas sound ludicrous to some but preparation and fore thought do help in an emergency situation. its better than standing there and being scared out of your mind . i am not going quietly into the night for anyone not my nature . and if u had 5 teachers who all agreed to this and would act in concert these incidents could be attenuated greatly which would be great. oh and i dont hate these people they are obviously insane and probably a lot of them are under some sort of mind control but i most certainly hate what is happening to the victims of these incidents. as a matter of fact i am going to start researching other ways to stop this sort of thing that dont involve guns. and i am ordering those ball bearings if for nothing else than myself .

lantern

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-...Myvpncl8gQ

norral

[reeay]

This is a difficult catalyst to understand and accept... that the other-self could be so senseless, and the enormity of the trauma/pain/sadness/anger etc., that parents and children now have to live with. I think it is possible that we could be vicariously traumatized when listening to the radio and watching TV coverage of the news.

It's really good to talk about personal reactions/experiences around tragedies immediately after something happens. Children processed these experiences much faster than adults during crisis (possibly due to smaller 'baggage' size of children compared to adults). E.g., talking with family members about their experience and use artistic expression (esp for children) to process this incident. Children also pick up on the adults' fears and other emotions, and would feel unsure as to how to process this. So it's good to do something together (play games, talk, draw, etc.,) and allow them to give words to their own feelings... and help them to sooth themselves - particularly on issue of how the adults are reacting to this incident (they need reassurance you're OK and they are OK).

[hogey11]

I would also warn everybody from falling into the media hype with these types of events.

We don't know exactly what happened yet, but (as usual) original reports are already being questioned like every other massacre. The reasons for this massacre do not matter tho; with each repetition of these type of things, I think the truth becomes so much clearer each time. Ultimately, this is a failure in understanding and treating mental health more so than anything else. Whatever the reasons for this man doing what he did, the underlying sickness could have mostly likely been caught and dealt with if we had a healthier respect for the diagnosis and treatment of mental health. We generally ignore it as a society other than throwing pills down our throats which make us even more detached and messed up. This is the deepest rooted issue, and I hope this might be an opportunity to develop a healthier respect for spiritual and mental wellness and awareness for everyone.

Like others have said, we must do our best to remember that the souls that left this plane are well taken care of right now. We must hold in our hearts all of those who lost and are still here; they are in their darkest hours right now. Hopefully we can turn this into a positive step forward in identifying these broken people in our society and offering them help instead of having them resort to things like this. Love and light to all those affected.

[BrownEye]

Wonder if it will be strange to find that none of the children tried to run? What might that mean?

[Cyan]

Wonder if it will be strange to find that none of the children tried to run? What might that mean?

Instinctual preference for friends lives to be saved over own. (Same reason why animals that starve eat their young)
Or if you want to be really dragon about it;
Lower (more common) forms of life prefer death over risking death of higher forms of life (adults/predators) so children (prey animals or more common animals) freeze and accept death by predators (rarer animals / adults) to save the herd (Evolution).
Thats (biology and reality) is why "we"("lightseekers") are called "of sorrow"(As our instinctual method of thinking is counter evolutionary due to our desire to eliminate suffering) far as I know of, but its only my estimate of course.

Because our real nature (What we wish for) is counter to reality (how things are) thats why we (humans) are against reality (evolution and biology) and thus our road to civilization gets HARDER as time goes by while it also gets smoother so it all seems faster as we spin.

Dunno, i find that a good analogue for the things to be and things that are. Could be wildly wrong though.

For me I just like the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow metaphor.

[Tenet Nosce]

Based on the reactions I have seen on social networks, some are opening up to the idea that these types of events are co-created by us and attracted by our hypocritical attitudes.

For example, noting that when hundreds of thousands of innocents (including children) die from the "War on Terror" it should be no different than when innocents die in our own backyard. Or pointing out inconsistency in the way that we glorify psychopaths on television- make celebrities out of them and watch reality shows about their lives- and then act "shocked and amazed" when more psychopaths pop out of the woodworks. Or contemplating why America seems to be such a good breeding ground for violent psychopaths.

Others- still see these things as totally "random" and feel victimized. They don't see the connection between their tax dollars being used to kill children in Afghanistan with drone weapons, and the slaughter of innocents back home. Some of these are offended at the mere suggestion of a possible connection.

Others- are going to buy more guns.

The Eternal Question: Has anything really changed?

[Bring4th_Austin]

Positive interpretation of catalyst may be difficult to find in situations like this. Some may not even want to consider the idea that there can be a silver-lining in such an event.

I, myself, feel impassioned to help create a society that has better support systems, where people who may make the decision to do something like this won't "fall through the cracks" and they may be offered an opportunity to bring their heaven here to our shared reality, instead of their hell. And also a support system for those who experience the trauma of witnessing such acts, or losing a loved one in such a confusing event.

[Karl]

They don't see the connection between their tax dollars being used to murder children in Afghanistan with drone weapons, and the slaughter of innocents back home.

Where did you come up with this enlightened certainty about Afghanistan? How much time have you spent there?

[Cyan]

To get a shared heaven, you need an empty hell. Then hell becomes a place of loneliness for the one closest to the center whom sees everyone else as fleeing away infinitely. Perhaps what hell needs, in all of us, is a steady stream of angels that shine our better natures, yes?

Would volunteering to spend time doing something nice with someone who may (anyone) do something murderous (far as i know, anyone could)

So, the proper way to volunteer to better the world is to be more of myself to more people. Excellent. Sounds like a plan. Seems like we've been doing that for a while

---

Angels because they'd risk being the last guy out just to bring us the best pun. (you get the joke)

[Tenet Nosce]

They don't see the connection between their tax dollars being used to murder children in Afghanistan with drone weapons, and the slaughter of innocents back home.

Where did you come up with this enlightened certainty about Afghanistan? How much time have you spent there?

US Military Says Killing Afghan Children Is Fair Game

In October, the US launched an airstrike in Afghanistan that killed three children – ages 8, 10, and 12 -while they were gathering firewood (or by some accounts, dung to burn as fuel). NATO issued its usual dismissive statement, admitting it may have “accidentally killed three innocent Afghan civilians.”

“It kind of opens our aperture,” said Army Lt. Col. Marion “Ced” Carrington, whose unit, 1st Battalion, 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment, was assisting the Afghan police. “In addition to looking for military-age males, it’s looking for children with potential hostile intent.”

Oops... I stand corrected. This one wasn't drone weapons, but rather a manned airstrike.

This is the one specifically about drones. But here they are talking about Pakistan, not Afghanistan.

Drone strikes kill, maim and traumatize too many civilians, U.S. study says

U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan have killed far more people than the United States has acknowledged, have traumatized innocent residents and largely been ineffective, according to a new study released Tuesday.

The study by Stanford Law School and New York University's School of Law calls for a re-evaluation of the practice, saying the number of "high-level" targets killed as a percentage of total casualties is extremely low -- about 2%.

"TBIJ reports that from June 2004 through mid-September 2012, available data indicate that drone strikes killed 2,562 - 3,325 people in Pakistan, of whom 474 - 881 were civilians, including 176 children. TBIJ reports that these strikes also injured an additional 1,228 - 1,362 individuals," according to the Stanford/NYU study.

[zenmaster]

For example, noting that when hundreds of thousands of innocents (including children) die from the "War on Terror" it should be no different than when innocents die in our own backyard.

What should be no different?

[Tenet Nosce]

For example, noting that when hundreds of thousands of innocents (including children) die from the "War on Terror" it should be no different than when innocents die in our own backyard.

What should be no different?

Our reaction to it. Referring to the notion that it is more "tragic" because it happened in America, rather than in another part of the world.

[Cyan]

You should always find tragedies close to you to be the most difficult ones. You shoudl always also expand the range of that definition of close to infinity but accepting that reaching it is to stop.

Far as I know ofcourse.

[norral]

the truth is the american public for the most part is oblivious to what we do overseas. how many vietnamese were killed by americans. over 1.5 million i believe but no prob. not our country. thats the way it is on this planet if it doesnt directly affect us we usually ignore it. how about the 8 and 9 year old children riding trains in central america to try and reunite with their parents in america they havent seen in 3 years. not a problem no sirree so long as we get cheap undocumented labor. and these children wind up getting sold into sexual slavery but not a problem. the world the world is basically asleep and that is the way it is . i hope and pray for a new heaven and a new earth or basically what i am saying is a new conciousness . if we cared we could not live the way we do with so much suffering going on and people lining up to get iphone 23 . nothing u can do but be yourself but as i have said before i am more than ready to be on a planet where the first priority if the general welfare of all and the enviornment. that would work for me this planet at times is like a very very bad dream . as i said at the beginning this incident and actually all the suffering on this planet is going to be very painful for anyone with an open heart chakra .

norral

[zenmaster]

For example, noting that when hundreds of thousands of innocents (including children) die from the "War on Terror" it should be no different than when innocents die in our own backyard.

What should be no different?

Our reaction to it. Referring to the notion that it is more "tragic" because it happened in America, rather than in another part of the world.

Or universe?

[Karl]

I can tell you from first hand experience the military is not running around wild murdering civilians.

s*** happens and people occasionally die but that's completely different then murdering those people and it's very rare.

You don't know what's going on. You are repeating stuff. If you do not know, you should not be making statements.

[Tenet Nosce]

I can tell you from first hand experience the military is not running around wild murdering civilians.

I didn't mean to imply that the military is "running around wild." I will go back and change murder to kill as that is the more appropriate word choice.

Also- keep in mind I was referring to what I was seeing on social networks. It was an observation, not an argument. So therefore, your anger is somewhat misdirected.

s*** happens and people occasionally die but that's completely different then murdering those people and it's very rare.

You don't know what's going on. You are repeating stuff. If you do not know, you should not be making statements.

Those are the statistics given in the news articles. If you want to question their accuracy, that is fine. If you want to totally deny what they are saying, that's fine too.

---

For example, noting that when hundreds of thousands of innocents (including children) die from the "War on Terror" it should be no different than when innocents die in our own backyard.

What should be no different?

Our reaction to it. Referring to the notion that it is more "tragic" because it happened in America, rather than in another part of the world.

Or universe?

Sure, why not. Except we don't really know about what is going on in the rest of the universe. But what few impressions I personally have lead me to believe that what we are witnessing here on earth is unusual, by universal standards.

[Oldern]

I can tell you from first hand experience the military is not running around wild murdering civilians.

s*** happens and people occasionally die but that's completely different then murdering those people and it's very rare.

You don't know what's going on. You are repeating stuff. If you do not know, you should not be making statements.

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-drone-...an-2012-12

[Plenum]

I am so confused!

did something bad happen?

is your family ok norral?

[Cyan]

Probably referring to the recent shootings, but I'll prefer to hear norral clarify too.

Sitting in on a outside military semi-expert (one of the areas where I focus heavily) There is a far cry from "soldiers under battlefield stress individually snapping and killing civilians" and "the military intentionally aiming to, without NBC's maximizing civilian deaths"

Lets keep it in relative scale here people.

The US military without NBC's could probably kill over a billion people a year and depopulate the planet in udner a decade even if everyone else declared war on them at the same time.

What the US is doing in afganistan is criminal, but its a far cray from someone actually trying to eliminate the afgani population. Its a war crime to even be there but sitll, lets keep it in perspective. Come talk to me after you have some idea of what a strategic bombing campaign against civilian targets actually does (fallujah would be example you're aiming for the US going overkill) but beyond that. They've been relatively methodical if slow in their murders, much like regional warlords after the collapse of the roman empires capital ocne they began to carve our ethnic enclaves for their own soldiers and their closest friends.

*sips from a cold drink*

We're yet hardly at the stage where the Us military in afganistan start carpetbombing anything that moves, indiscriminately.

Edit: Let me point something out here. The fact that the US immune system called the military is in Afganistan is not a immune system (military) disfunction, it is a brain (electoral) system disfunction.

[Monica]

i agree lynn with your thought that this stuff goes on all the time except its overseas and and no one really gives a ____

That might be part of the answer right there. Families living in the countries that are getting drone bombed live in constant fear of their neighborhoods getting hit, yet Americans are oblivious. It's easy for Americans to feel love and compassion for the victims and their families, when it happens here...not so easy when it's Pakistani or Afgan or Iraqi children being killed...killed by our own military! Perhaps this is to make people aware of this glaring contradiction.

[BrownEye]

OMG! There is a hugely immense energy of compassion coming from those that were shot, those on the other side! I was sort of spacing off on the news about it and there was a physical pressure that hit me in the forehead, with an immediate physical reaction like my heart quadrupled in size and shot energy up through my crown. It felt like i was about to break out in tears and had to force the "beam" away and control my space. There is a definite purpose to this, and energy is available to us. It took me a minute to figure out what the source was, it is the group that just left the physical! This has my head reeling. You guys should try and connect to them!

[Karl]

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-drone-...an-2012-12

Known as the "double tap," the tactic involves bombing a target multiple times in relatively quick succession, meaning that the second strike often hits first responders.

First part is something that actually happens. It's not a tactic designed to murder first responders.

The principle is 100lb of high-explosive isn't enough to do the job that requires 200lbs of high-explosive. So you fire twice sometimes to make sure they're dead.

Delays are usually because of difference in the tactical employment of supporting assets, or because of inability to co-ordinate before hand because it's an emergency.

And generally they are in quick succession. Meaning less than a minute in almost all cases.

UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial killings Christof Heyns said that if there are "secondary drone strikes on rescuers who are helping (the injured) after an initial drone attack, those further attacks are a war crime."

If they get hit by the second strike which was engaging a target it wasn't targeting them.

In a situation where non-combatants were in the area weapons would not be given release authority. Most likely the round (in the case of artillery or long range air-assets) is all-ready flying towards the target. Can't call back round after pulling the trigger.

This entire article is spinning words around to make news out of relatively nothing. It uses a common tactic and then implies its entire purpose is something it's not. Then also says if that was why it was happening it's a war crime. It is a war crime, but that is not the purpose of doing it.

[Monica]

I can tell you from first hand experience the military is not running around wild murdering civilians.

s*** happens and people occasionally die but that's completely different then murdering those people and it's very rare.

You don't know what's going on. You are repeating stuff. If you do not know, you should not be making statements.

Drone strikes.

Obama Drone Strikes Are 'Mass Murder' - Jeremy Scahill "What we're doing is so heinous the Mafia won't even do it."

If A Foreign Drone Killed Your 16 yr Old Family Member....Tell Me, How Would You Feel?

Child Casualties As a Result of U.S. Drone Strikes (warning: graphic)

See http://www.warcosts.com/ and sign the petition

The Bureau of Investigative Journalism, heralded as the leading authority for drone-strike casualty numbers by the recent report entitled Living Under Drones by Stanford and NYU researchers, reports 178 children have died in Yemen and Pakistan as a result of U.S. drone strikes. War Costs has produced a video and report on the topic.

Please consider joining us in our appeal to leaders of the U.S. House of representatives to bring Rep. Dennis Kucinich's bill, H.Res. 819 -- which calls for more accountability and transparency for U.S. drone policy -- to the House floor this month for debate and a vote.

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/201...-pakistan/

CIA Drone Strikes in Pakistan 2004–2012

Total US strikes: 354
Obama strikes: 302
Total reported killed: 2,597-3,398
Civilians reported killed: 473-889
Children reported killed: 176

Total reported injured: 1,256-1,414

US Covert Action in Yemen 2002–2012

Total confirmed US operations (all): 53-63
Total confirmed US drone strikes: 42-52
Possible extra US operations: 125-144
Possible extra US drone strikes: 67-80
Total reported killed (all): 362-1,062
Total civilians killed (all): 60-173
Children killed (all): 24-35

US Covert Action in Somalia 2007–2012

Total US strikes: 10-23
Total US drone strikes: 3-9
Total reported killed: 58-170
Civilians reported killed: 11-57
Children reported killed: 1-3
Drone Infographics