The tendency towards “black magic”

[zedro]

To note that Ra said that for a planetary entity to be named a Logos, it needs to be working in harmonic fashion with entities or mind/body complexes upon its surface or within its electromagnetic field. This was in response to Don asking if our planet was some form of sub-sub-Logos and seems to indicate that is not yet the case. In a later session, the material seems to indicate that we 3D entities are parents to the planetary entity that will be born.

So does this suggest the mythology of the 'gods' competing for the souls of the planet, and this is part of the uniqueness of Earth's situation?

[Patrick]

...part of the uniqueness of Earth's situation?

The uniqueness seems to be in part due to us being of multiple origins all thrown down in the same arena.

...The experience you share is unique to this time/space continuum.

[jafar]

Ra being close to their 7d harvest is probably the closest avatar we have of our sub-Logos.

Well since Patrick and Jafar are actually merely a webforum avatar / identification construct, then bring4th.org is definitely our closest Logos. When bring4th.org no longer exist, so does Patrick and Jafar.

Moving up one layer, for the consciousness behind Patrick and Jafar, both have many other webforum avatar / identification construct, and it could be that both shared another logos somewhere although through different webforum avatar / identification construct, where in that 'construct', the consciousness behind Jafar was known as Patricia or even Lee Hon Jae.

The creator itself is the prime logos as Ra uses the word. It is used to reference a portion of intelligent infinity which has manifested in a specific manner. The next major Logos is that of the Galaxy as a whole. Then each star has its own Logos, followed by each planet, then each moon, and finally each individual life-form native to those bodies. The logos is hierarchical in nature and is independent of the densities. Each Logos determines the parameters of manifested creation within its domain, and each sub logos is independent but must further refine the creation within their own domain while being unable to change any of the parameters set by the higher logos.

I remember to read somewhere where Mr Ra uses the word "Galaxy" which actually means a "Star".
But I forgot where...

And I don't think it's strictly hierarchical, as there are many layering of identification, and each "Logos" (Galaxy, Star and Planet) are finite, has boundary / limit. There will be time when Star will explode thus destroyed and so does galaxy and planet.

The human vessel, for example is a layer of identification, and it's "Made In Earth", thus from that perspective, Earth is the Logos of the human vessel layer. The 'consciousness identification construct' behind the human vessel, can have many other vessels, and might not necessarily be "Made In Earth". It could be "Made In Plaedians", "Made in Orion", "Made in Mars", "Made In Andromeda".

Going down the layer, the human can have many avatars as well for him to express himself or experience something, web forum avatars, gaming avatars and so on..

Instead of pyramidal hierarchy I see the relation between all form of "identification construct" as "meshed network". Many "identification construct" are connected to many "identification construct" and it's multi-layered.

Yet the advice is consistent, don't get too attached to any of the 'identification construct' a.k.a 'karmic construct' as all identification construct are finite thus temporal and constantly changing.
Planet will be destroyed, Sun will explode, human vessel will become dysfunctional and die, web forum avatar will die as well, following the suspension or death of the web forum.

[Patrick]

Then it's better to just identify with the I AM.

[Steppingfeet]

“It is impossible to worship both sides, – the male and female of nature, – at once; one or the other must predominate. Only by following the absolute, sexless Unity, can the white path be trodden. Hence the necessity for chastity. The occult and the physical must never be mixed up. It is absolutely necessary to concentrate on one or the other. The tendency naturally is to Black Magic, and that is why several years of training are necessary to cut away every sort of prejudice before power can be entrusted to you. Before you can become an occultist you have to give up every prejudice, every liking, every feeling of preference for one thing or another. The adept must entirely separate himself from his personality. He must say, I am a power! It is easy to fall into Black Magic.”

(K.H., Some Commentaries on H.P.B.’s Esoteric Instructions I and II, pg. 10, Par. 2, last line)

I get why you shared the quote, sillypumpkins, feeling as you did that it may help speak to why some felt that the world is "inherently STS." I just wish to comment briefly on Blavatsky's thinking as expressed here.

I agree completely with what SF said regarding the absolute necessity to balance and clear the lower chakras. If more power becomes available to you, whether a social or finanicial power or simply higher energy in your own system, then your blockages, particularly repressed (and thereby unconscious) aspects of your self, may wield that power in ways that reduce your polarity, whether toward self-aggrandizement, abuse of others, or other forms of separation. (Though, side note, it would have to take a huge act of conscious volition to then begin pursuing black magic, but surely the stories of switched polarity are many.)

What i wanted to reflect on was this absolutism in Blavatsky's words. "Cut away" "give up" "separate himself from his personality" - including "EVERY" single preference! Wow. I mean, in a certain light, I can see the liberation from the bonds of the personality shell through disidentification with form that is needed for union with the Creator, but this seems to me a recipe for war with the self. Dominating and controlling the lower or animal or physical or personality self to reach a conjured state of perfection.

Far better, I think, to love the self, the full 360-degree self, the light and the dark, that which is liked and disliked in the self, and to then do the work of the disciplines of the personality: Knowing the Self, Accepting the Self, Becoming the Creator.

Upon that path, distortion then falls away, as Ra indicates. I don't think we must identify undesirable aspects and then excise them from our beings, though certainly we can work toward understanding where we are out of our integrity, improving our habits, and even intentionally releasing toxic aspects (e.g., through fasting). I think we must embrace our imperfection and submit it to the Creator in the light of that grace and mercy, and seek ever to become purer instruments of the One.

Though maybe the rest of her large body of work helps to contextualize this one quote.

[Patrick]

Fasting ! It's been a while since my last time. On my third day I was sitting with a glass of water in front of my wife who was eating pizza.

[Steppingfeet]

Fasting !  It's been a while since my last time.  On my third day I was sitting with a glass of water in front of my wife who was eating pizza.  

Of all the foods to tempt yourself with... even those of us with the purest diets might not be able to control ourselves following the brain explosions on day three of intentional starvation when in sight of a glorious pizza...

It's been years since I did a three day fast. I never felt I gained much from it, physically or psychologically. I find that a fast of 24-hours or less suits me well.

[Patrick]

Fasting !  It's been a while since my last time.  On my third day I was sitting with a glass of water in front of my wife who was eating pizza.  

Of all the foods to tempt yourself with... even those of us with the purest diets might not be able to control ourselves following the brain explosions on day three of intentional starvation when in sight of a glorious pizza...

It's been years since I did a three day fast. I never felt I gained much from it, physically or psychologically. I find that a fast of 24-hours or less suits me well.

It was a 5 day water only fast.  I went alone in my car to pick up that pizza with fries for her.  Can you imagine the smell in the car while coming back, with the nose just able to smell so much more because of the fast.  I was in that Zen state of the third day and that did not bother me a bit.  I was just happy for her, I was just happy period! She thought I was crazy, which of course I am.

Yeah, remembering that gives me the taste to do that again soonish.

[Sacred Fool]

Far better, I think, to love the self, the full 360-degree self, the light and the dark, that which is liked and disliked in the self, and to then do the work of the disciplines of the personality: Knowing the Self, Accepting the Self, Becoming the Creator.

Agreed.  But the Theosophists weren't much in to love.  "There is no religion higher than truth" was one of their slogans, and they were not particularly loving to their anointed saviour, J. Krishnamurti, when he tired of the situation they put him into.

They were seeking assiduously to see behind the veil in Victorian times, so one has to give them credit working under duress, but various distortions of those years are woven into their works.  The unbalanced anti-sexual display in the OP is one example of that, I would aver.
   

[EvolvingPhoenix]

The passage by Blavatsky sounds like some more if the same old bullshit to me. I dunno, maybe I wasn't reading it right or thinking enough about it, but it came across to me as another one of those bullshit assertions that spirituality amd physicality are dualistic and one must be picked over the other to get what you want put of either. I'm sick of spiritual ascetics telling us we need to disregard the matters and desires of the flesh to indulge in thw spiritual
It is pur physicality which grounds us here and if being grounded here had no higher spiritual purpose we would not be doing it. People always seem to get this cognitively in the abstract sense, but then continue to espouse stupid s*** that asserts we must disregard the material world and earthly desires for spiritual pursuit. I call BS.

[Ymarsakar]

No, that is not what the passage is about

[EvolvingPhoenix]

Good.

[Steppingfeet]

But the Theosophists weren't much in to love.  "There is no religion higher than truth" was one of their slogans, and they were not particularly loving to their anointed saviour, J. Krishnamurti, when he tired of the situation they put him into.

Do you know how love was situated in their philosophy? Was it simply one of any number of human emotions? Something to overcome? I know little about theosophy, but I do seem to recall Krisnhamurti being identified and groomed from a young age for the role.

The passage by Blavatsky sounds like some more if the same old bullshit to me. I dunno, maybe I wasn't reading it right or thinking enough about it, but it came across to me as another one of those bullshit assertions that spirituality amd physicality are dualistic and one must be picked over the other to get what you want put of either. I'm sick of spiritual ascetics telling us we need to disregard the matters and desires of the flesh to indulge in thw spiritual

If this passage is representative of the whole, I agree that it seems to repeats the same fundamental error many traditions have historically made: rejecting the material world as "fallen" and something to be overcome. I find no resonance with that way of thought.

However, I can exercise understanding and safely assume that they were responding (in their own distorted way) to the Original Desire within them, to the need for something higher and greater than the cage of their particular consensus reality. They were doing their best, as they saw it, to awaken. And as with any seeker in any time and place, they could not be separated from the limitations, contradictions, blindspots, myths, and other distortions of their context. Of which SF points to some:

They were seeking assiduously to see behind the veil in Victorian times, so one has to give them credit working under duress, but various distortions of those years are woven into their works.  The unbalanced anti-sexual display in the OP is one example of that, I would aver.

Who's to say what philosophies our time produces won't be seen by later generations as missing the point in some way?

However pure or mixed in polarity their efforts may have been - I don't have the measure - like all movements they have some sort of gift to offer that becomes visible only when viewed honestly but compassionately.

[The priest part in the following is irrelevant to the point.]

Ra: We spoke to one who heard and understood and was in a position to decree the Law of One. However, the priests and peoples of that era quickly distorted our message, robbing it of the, shall we say, compassion with which unity is informed by its very nature. Since it contains all, it cannot abhor any.

I think that this points to why Ra links the word "understanding" with "love" in the next density of evolution.

[Sacred Fool]

But the Theosophists weren't much in to love.  "There is no religion higher than truth" was one of their slogans, and they were not particularly loving to their anointed saviour, J. Krishnamurti, when he tired of the situation they put him into.

Do you know how love was situated in their philosophy? Was it simply one of any number of human emotions? Something to overcome? I know little about theosophy, but I do seem to recall Krisnhamurti being identified and groomed from a young age for the role.

I read a few of their books decades back and don't recall much of the specifics.  But I would note that the Theosophists wrote books in the late 19th-early20th centuries which were the result of communication with disincarnate beings (ascended masters) and that sense they pre-figured the work of L/L Research.  The term "Devachanic Plane" which Prof. Elkins uses in the Ra Material may well have entered into the lexicon via a Theospohist.
Personally, I would say that their stuff could be useful to some degree but is of markedly uneven purity.  I believe they lacked a good system of tuning their contacts.
  

[Diana]

It's been years since I did a three day fast. I never felt I gained much from it, physically or psychologically. I find that a fast of 24-hours or less suits me well.

I, too, have done both, and I have done fasting cleanses that go for a week or two weeks (which include herbs). I think the idea of a 24-hour fast is to give the digestive system a chance to rest, and do some healing, while not having to deal with digestion. The idea of a 3-day fast or longer is to reset the whole system. At least, that's how I see it. Fasting for any length of time where one gets past the impulse to eat, is a significant change or break in thought patterns.

[Dtris]

But the Theosophists weren't much in to love.  "There is no religion higher than truth" was one of their slogans, and they were not particularly loving to their anointed saviour, J. Krishnamurti, when he tired of the situation they put him into.

Do you know how love was situated in their philosophy? Was it simply one of any number of human emotions? Something to overcome? I know little about theosophy, but I do seem to recall Krisnhamurti being identified and groomed from a young age for the role.

I read a few of their books decades back and don't recall much of the specifics.  But I would note that the Theosophists wrote books in the late 19th-early20th centuries which were the result of communication with disincarnate beings (ascended masters) and that sense they pre-figured the work of L/L Research.  The term "Devachanic Plane" which Prof. Elkins uses in the Ra Material may well have entered into the lexicon via a Theospohist.
Personally, I would say that their stuff could be useful to some degree but is of markedly uneven purity.  I believe they lacked a good system of tuning their contacts.
  

According the the Theosophist website, the idea they communicated with discarnate entities is a later misunderstanding. Blavatsky and others insisted the masters were real, physical, humans, just like anyone else. They just were isolated and had been so for a very long time. Blavatsky even wrote articles which from the title appear to warn against believing channeled information easily.

When the thread was started I was about to reply but realized I was confusing Blavatsky for Dion Fortune, of which I have read the latter but never the former. I haven't had much time to look into the actual body of work of Theosophy and Blavatsky yet.

When Blavatsky first started she was using the term master in the old meaning of teacher. The same way it is used when referring to a master and apprentice. According to her own statements that is the precise relationship she had with these masters, having been chosen from a young age to be taught by them for the purpose of disseminating some of the truth.

The nature of the masters was always physical from the start, and they repeatedly warned against people treating them as angels, or gods, or ascended, or whatever. They actually have preserved letters from the masters to certain students, even some written after Blavatsky died since she is usually accused of writing them fraudulently. These letters are at a british museum. Despite this several groups were taken over by very self serving individuals who elevated the masters to godlike status and this broke apart and ruined the original societies. This included redacting and altering original works of Blavatsky and others, making additions, and writing their own new materials which contradicted the originals.

The largest modern group is a decentralized group of seekers who cooperate to preserve the original works in their original form.

One of the things which interest me the most is the origin of the masters and it relationship with certain references in the R material and L/L Research. From the earliest contact with Hatonn there was references to there being other groups in contact with the confederation. Little information is ever given due to the law of confusion. Ra also mentions that there are white magic groups who perform works like is mentioned to give love and light to the earth as a whole and to balance the negative energy generated.

In years of research into this world the magical societies which are publicly known do not fit the description of Ra. The closest things we have to those who fit that description are the practically mythical stories of Yogis, Qigong Masters, and Saint Germain. All tend to be very similar in that they refer to people who are very long lived, capable of extraordinary feats, and they come from seclusion and re-enter seclusion. Sometimes never heard from again and sometimes they reappear decades later looking the same.

My thoughts are that, if these groups Ra and others mention really exist and are doing this work, then the most likely candidates are these secluded groups. The group Blavatsky was in contact with came from the Himalayas, while they also said they were in contact with other groups even in those times. These groups may ultimately be made up of those individuals which Ra said were able to ascend early, but when STO almost always choose to stay behind and aid mankind. Even if Rare, in 75k years there should be a pretty significant number of adepts who reached that status.

[Ymarsakar]

Great white brotherhood of alcyone is the name.

Order of melchizedek

A few examples are found in journey of socrates, by oeaceful warrior author.

Himalayas tibet etc are one hq.

Intriguing connections to dr strange movie.

Search inner plane or guardian i. Law of One info for references.

But the Theosophists weren't much in to love.  "There is no religion higher than truth" was one of their slogans, and they were not particularly loving to their anointed saviour, J. Krishnamurti, when he tired of the situation they put him into.

Do you know how love was situated in their philosophy? Was it simply one of any number of human emotions? Something to overcome? I know little about theosophy, but I do seem to recall Krisnhamurti being identified and groomed from a young age for the role.

I read a few of their books decades back and don't recall much of the specifics.  But I would note that the Theosophists wrote books in the late 19th-early20th centuries which were the result of communication with disincarnate beings (ascended masters) and that sense they pre-figured the work of L/L Research.  The term "Devachanic Plane" which Prof. Elkins uses in the Ra Material may well have entered into the lexicon via a Theospohist.
Personally, I would say that their stuff could be useful to some degree but is of markedly uneven purity.  I believe they lacked a good system of tuning their contacts.
  

According the the Theosophist website, the idea they communicated with discarnate entities is a later misunderstanding. Blavatsky and others insisted the masters were real, physical, humans, just like anyone else. They just were isolated and had been so for a very long time. Blavatsky even wrote articles which from the title appear to warn against believing channeled information easily.

When the thread was started I was about to reply but realized I was confusing Blavatsky for Dion Fortune, of which I have read the latter but never the former. I haven't had much time to look into the actual body of work of Theosophy and Blavatsky yet.

When Blavatsky first started she was using the term master in the old meaning of teacher. The same way it is used when referring to a master and apprentice. According to her own statements that is the precise relationship she had with these masters, having been chosen from a young age to be taught by them for the purpose of disseminating some of the truth.

The nature of the masters was always physical from the start, and they repeatedly warned against people treating them as angels, or gods, or ascended, or whatever. They actually have preserved letters from the masters to certain students, even some written after Blavatsky died since she is usually accused of writing them fraudulently. These letters are at a british museum. Despite this several groups were taken over by very self serving individuals who elevated the masters to godlike status and this broke apart and ruined the original societies. This included redacting and altering original works of Blavatsky and others, making additions, and writing their own new materials which contradicted the originals.

The largest modern group is a decentralized group of seekers who cooperate to preserve the original works in their original form.

One of the things which interest me the most is the origin of the masters and it relationship with certain references in the R material and L/L Research. From the earliest contact with Hatonn there was references to there being other groups in contact with the confederation. Little information is ever given due to the law of confusion. Ra also mentions that there are white magic groups who perform works like is mentioned to give love and light to the earth as a whole and to balance the negative energy generated.

In years of research into this world the magical societies which are publicly known do not fit the description of Ra. The closest things we have to those who fit that description are the practically mythical stories of Yogis, Qigong Masters, and Saint Germain. All tend to be very similar in that they refer to people who are very long lived, capable of extraordinary feats, and they come from seclusion and re-enter seclusion. Sometimes never heard from again and sometimes they reappear decades later looking the same.

My thoughts are that, if these groups Ra and others mention really exist and are doing this work, then the most likely candidates are these secluded groups. The group Blavatsky was in contact with came from the Himalayas, while they also said they were in contact with other groups even in those times. These groups may ultimately be made up of those individuals which Ra said were able to ascend early, but when STO almost always choose to stay behind and aid mankind. Even if Rare, in 75k years there should be a pretty significant number of adepts who reached that status.

[Sacred Fool]

 
On the small point of channeling masters, I seem to recall that at least Annie Besant and maybe Madame Blavatsky, as she was known, said that some or most of their material was received by them telepathically, whether or not the transmitter was dead or alive.  For whatever that's worth.
   

[meadow-foreigner]

Dialectic of polarization is still of 3rd Density.
Unification;Realization is of 4th Density and beyond: a clearer and more distinct realization of The Creation in Its Perfection.

[Ymarsakar]

"You have a misunderstanding of Logos as it is used in the Ra material."

What is your understanding of what I think a Logos is? Dtris.

I do not see any of this understanding here yet.

[meadow-foreigner]

I was reading some Blavatsky today (thanks to Ming and Ohr for inspiring me to dive into her work) and this quote felt relevant to some discussions that have taken place here.

It’s been mentioned, or alluded to, on b4 that the world is “inherently STS.” I had trouble reconciling this with my own beliefs/philosophies, so I just left it behind, as it were.

Anyways I found this quote by Blavatsky that I feel gives more of a voice to where some may have been coming from when expressing their belief that the world is inherently STS. It helped me, so.... maybe it will for some you

Only if you limit your referentials to the world's atmosphere, without realizing that what is out is also in. If you expand your metrics to, let's say, our Solar System Logos, then the scales increase and there is abundance from above as much as there is abundance from below.

Even then, if you limit your referential only to the planet you're in, you are composed of many smaller forms in your body: you're like a planet, and you consume from the abundance of the planet.