The tendency towards “black magic”

[sillypumpkins]

I was reading some Blavatsky today (thanks to Ming and Ohr for inspiring me to dive into her work) and this quote felt relevant to some discussions that have taken place here.

It’s been mentioned, or alluded to, on b4 that the world is “inherently STS.” I had trouble reconciling this with my own beliefs/philosophies, so I just left it behind, as it were.

Anyways I found this quote by Blavatsky that I feel gives more of a voice to where some may have been coming from when expressing their belief that the world is inherently STS. It helped me, so.... maybe it will for some you

“It is impossible to worship both sides, – the male and female of nature, – at once; one or the other must predominate. Only by following the absolute, sexless Unity, can the white path be trodden. Hence the necessity for chastity. The occult and the physical must never be mixed up. It is absolutely necessary to concentrate on one or the other. The tendency naturally is to Black Magic, and that is why several years of training are necessary to cut away every sort of prejudice before power can be entrusted to you. Before you can become an occultist you have to give up every prejudice, every liking, every feeling of preference for one thing or another. The adept must entirely separate himself from his personality. He must say, I am a power! It is easy to fall into Black Magic.”

(K.H., Some Commentaries on H.P.B.’s Esoteric Instructions I and II, pg. 10, Par. 2, last line)

[Ming the Merciful]

I was reading some Blavatsky today (thanks to Ming and Ohr for inspiring me to dive into her work) and this quote felt relevant to some discussions that have taken place here.

It’s been mentioned, or alluded to, on b4 that the world is “inherently STS.” I had trouble reconciling this with my own beliefs/philosophies, so I just left it behind, as it were.

Anyways I found this quote by Blavatsky that I feel gives more of a voice to where some may have been coming from when expressing their belief that the world is inherently STS. It helped me, so.... maybe it will for some you

“It is impossible to worship both sides, – the male and female of nature, – at once; one or the other must predominate. Only by following the absolute, sexless Unity, can the white path be trodden. Hence the necessity for chastity. The occult and the physical must never be mixed up. It is absolutely necessary to concentrate on one or the other. The tendency naturally is to Black Magic, and that is why several years of training are necessary to cut away every sort of prejudice before power can be entrusted to you. Before you can become an occultist you have to give up every prejudice, every liking, every feeling of preference for one thing or another. The adept must entirely separate himself from his personality. He must say, I am a power! It is easy to fall into Black Magic.”

Pure Magic in the Occult sense is neutral. It is only because people are persuaded to, (either), Black, (or), White magic by the influences of the Church. Having a Christian orientated Black and White teachings, (Heaven or Hell), those who oppose the Church become Black. In my Spiritual Quest I encountered Black Magicians. I could not take them seriously because the power they had was in their imagination. Without sounding egotistical, (which I am not). I had more power in my little finger. I have used it a couple times, and I was amazed how powerful it was, (White or Neutral). Although you, (unknowingly), drift to one side, (or the other). The problem with magic, it can quickly cause karmic ramifications that get out of control. Don't do more than you are willing to receive in karmic payback. There is always the Universal Balance.

For this reason, I do not go into the area of the "Universal Law of Attraction". Why? Universal Balance. I have the argument that is somebody, (greedily), takes from the Universe, how do we not know that we are not depriving another Being living in a distant Galaxy? If the Universe remains in balance. Also, the Universe can give, and it can also take it away. If somebody is taking from the Universe, (which they are not entitled to). Then it creates imbalance. On YouTube I had arguments with some of the Law of Attraction conmen. I think I made them feel uncomfortable, and a lot of people agreed with me. The "Universal Law of Attraction" is a form of Magic. Stating the same argument. So ends the discourse...

[Patrick]

My understanding is that the force (Love) behind intelligent energy is infinite.  So it won't remove love from anyone in the Universe to channel more love on this planet.

[Ymarsakar]

I was reading some Blavatsky today (thanks to Ming and Ohr for inspiring me to dive into her work) and this quote felt relevant to some discussions that have taken place here.

It’s been mentioned, or alluded to, on b4 that the world is “inherently STS.” I had trouble reconciling this with my own beliefs/philosophies, so I just left it behind, as it were.

Anyways I found this quote by Blavatsky that I feel gives more of a voice to where some may have been coming from when expressing their belief that the world is inherently STS. It helped me, so.... maybe it will for some you

“It is impossible to worship both sides, – the male and female of nature, – at once; one or the other must predominate. Only by following the absolute, sexless Unity, can the white path be trodden. Hence the necessity for chastity. The occult and the physical must never be mixed up. It is absolutely necessary to concentrate on one or the other. The tendency naturally is to Black Magic, and that is why several years of training are necessary to cut away every sort of prejudice before power can be entrusted to you. Before you can become an occultist you have to give up every prejudice, every liking, every feeling of preference for one thing or another. The adept must entirely separate himself from his personality. He must say, I am a power! It is easy to fall into Black Magic.”

(K.H., Some Commentaries on H.P.B.’s Esoteric Instructions I and II, pg. 10, Par. 2, last line)

To use a star wars symbology, the light side secret societies absolutely know that the dark side secret societies are controlling things from behind the wizard of oz curtain. And these secret societies are real secret societies, not the ones on Ancient aliens history channel or youtube.

HPB's path of the adept is connected to the tarot Magus/Magician/Wizard archetype. As well as the Hermit (secret society), the Hierophant (sages/gurus/true priests/avatars), and the Fool (The Child).

A child does not have a solidified personality, yet. It can still change. As the Christ once talked about, to become a child is the way to the kingdom of god. Children will mimick powerful super heroes and other such roles. They "pretend" and act as if they are the power, to understand it.

Black magic is a crutch. It is for those that want a solution to their problems, but they want an easy fix or shortcut. Like using money to buy love potions, fame, or success, vs having an internal work ethic and virtues. The wizards have no need of black magick or even white magick. Their Willpower manifests directly as reality.

In that sense, Crowley and other occultists failed. They failed because ... well, they know why.

[jafar]

I was reading some Blavatsky today (thanks to Ming and Ohr for inspiring me to dive into her work) and this quote felt relevant to some discussions that have taken place here.
It’s been mentioned, or alluded to, on b4 that the world is “inherently STS.” I had trouble reconciling this with my own beliefs/philosophies, so I just left it behind, as it were.

What does it mean by "inherently STS"?
As STS exist because it's opposite; STO exist.. and vice versa.

If what it meant is the ultimate state is actually none other than infinity which has no border, as thus there is no 'other' to begin with, no STS or STO, then I agree with such definition.

A child does not have a solidified personality, yet. It can still change. As the Christ once talked about, to become a child is the way to the kingdom of god. Children will mimick powerful super heroes and other such roles. They "pretend" and act as if they are the power, to understand it.

I understood the phrase of "Becoming a child is a way to the kingdom of God" as the process of "unlearning" of any "concept" or "definition" that has been "learned", thus eliminating the "border" in the process.

A child vision presented with an image cannot differentiate between red or white, wall or door, me and other human, they just see everything as it is, without border of definition. As time progress he/she learn about "concept" which define "Something" and also automatically "not something".

A unification with the infinite cannot happened without eliminating all border of definition, all wall of separation between something and something else, and ultimately the border that define "Self" and "Other Self".

In allegorical sense: The bubble that contain the air inside the bubble, which differentiate between the "air inside the bubble" and the "air outside the bubble" and also "other bubble" need to be destroyed, thus no more air inside or air outside of the bubble. There's no bubble, there's just air..

[Sacred Fool]

It’s been mentioned, or alluded to, on b4 that the world is “inherently STS.” I had trouble reconciling this with my own beliefs/philosophies, so I just left it behind, as it were.

The way I read it, Harriet is trying to say something different, not that the world is inherently selfish (people are selfish, by the way, not the world), but that as one gains in personal power, this naturally gives more juice to one's shadow impulses and this can lead to outcomes such as Aleister Crowley exemplified. 

She says, no sex for the aspirant.  I find this overly protective, but the general principle is surely true.  That's why, one could say, the road to hell is paved with fallen gurus.  It's very natural to act out your desires once you have the power to do so.  Ergo, the wiser approach is, as Ra recommends, to do the lousy work of balancing the lower chakras.  Personally, I don't see a better way to move forward with the task of activating both the animal self and the angelic self.  Otherwise, the unbalanced subconscious steals the vehicle when no one's looking, takes it for a big joy ride and messes it all up.....again.
   

[Minyatur]

It’s been mentioned, or alluded to, on b4 that the world is “inherently STS.” I had trouble reconciling this with my own beliefs/philosophies, so I just left it behind, as it were.

I don't think that is the case, the world is inherently positive. Even the material says our world was designed with a bias toward kindness making the STO path the more efficient to us.

I think people have no idea what an inherently STS world is like.

[sillypumpkins]

I actually never really resonated with comments of the world being "inherently sts" (at least not in a positive way)

The only reason I posted this was because Blavatsky's words seemed to potentially speak to what others may have referred to as an inherently STS society... or whatever. I'm not saying Blavatsky is saying that this world is inherently STS. I'm just saying, these statements were made on this forum, they didn't resonate with me in a positive way, and after finding this Blavatsky quote, I feel I have more of an understanding of where a "world is inherently STS" statement may come from.

Again, I don't think the world is inherently STS, I don't think Blavatsky is saying that. It just feels to me that she's potentially speaking to where some folks might be coming from when they say the world is inherently sts

i hope thats clear

[Minyatur]

I actually never really resonated with comments of the world being "inherently sts" (at least not in a positive way)

The only reason I posted this was because Blavatsky's words seemed to potentially speak to what others may have referred to as an inherently STS society... or whatever. I'm not saying Blavatsky is saying that this world is inherently STS. I'm just saying, these statements were made on this forum, they didn't resonate with me in a positive way, and after finding this Blavatsky quote, I feel I have more of an understanding of where a "world is inherently STS" statement may come from.

Again, I don't think the world is inherently STS, I don't think Blavatsky is saying that. It just feels to me that she's potentially speaking to where some folks might be coming from when they say the world is inherently sts

i hope thats clear

To me that is somewhat the fallacy of seeking magic and why I've never had a great interest, it felt like it would hinder my path rather than aid it.

My path revolve around my ability to become transparent and selfless within my reality, so what is sought is to transform myself foremost and from there become an opportunity through which other things may find to be transformed in healing also. As I walk this path, I become more resonant with higher aspects of my reality, which are expressed through my being because I am transparent to them. Usually someone will seek magic to transform or control something external, which is the exact opposite of wanting to perceive the total unity of their reality.

In a way, it's a bit like how you could judge our societies as more negative than they are because of how they are managed. What is actually seen is that a position of power attracts the few who seek and thrive in power. In the same fashion, magic is a concept of power and so will be mostly be sought by those who seek power. Those who do not seek power, which is the vast majority of everyone, do not seek neither positions of power within society nor magic.

[sillypumpkins]

woah thanks for sharing minyatur.... very helpful...

do you feel that 'polarity' as described in the LOO material, is essentially what is considered white/black magic in occult circles?

[Minyatur]

woah thanks for sharing minyatur.... very helpful...

do you feel that 'polarity' as described in the LOO material, is essentially what is considered white/black magic in occult circles?

That would make sense. Polarity is the empowerment of the self within one's reality and whether the usage in magic is white or black depends on the color of one's intent.

While I said I do not seek magic, I still believe it to be a natural aspect of my reality that I am awakening more and more to.

[Ymarsakar]

If the world is inherently polarizing service to self at the expense of others, why are there few if any negative harvests and why does it take 95% negativity to become harvestable?

If the world is inherently polarizing service to others as self in harmony to all, why is it so hard to hit 51% + polarization and why is the positive polarization so few in number?

"the world is inherently positive"

Which aspects are inherently positive and what does that mean?

[Minyatur]

If the world is inherently polarizing service to self at the expense of others, why are there few if any negative harvests and why does it take 95% negativity to become harvestable?

If the world is inherently polarizing service to others as self in harmony to all, why is it so hard to hit 51% + polarization and why is the positive polarization so few in number?

"the world is inherently positive"

Which aspects are inherently positive and what does that mean?

Technically speaking, if we have an inherent bias toward kindness, it is also counter-productive for polarization.

Polarization requires self-awareness of the duality of self and other-selves. It requires the tension that generates the necessity of a choice. If an action is automatic because of an in-built bias, then it is not polarizing. The material does say somewhere that distortions that come from our 2D nature in which the self may see the family, society or country as also the self is not helpful toward progress within third density.

So harvest being hard to me is also about entities not being conscious enough to have made a definite choice of polarity. To really make a choice, you need to be aware to a great extent of the two potentials. Positive 4D and negative 4D are quite unlike one another and in both cases the potential to experience the other density is somewhat forsaken (at least for a long time). Neither is lesser nor greater than the other, they merely have a very different nature in the experience of the Creator as the Creator.

[Ymarsakar]

<B>Technically speaking, if we have an inherent bias toward kindness, it is also counter-productive for polarization.</b>

Why is there an inherent bias toward kindness?

If a person is kind, can hell not be paved with good intentions?

"To really make a choice, you need to be aware to a great extent of the two potentials."

Wouldn't actions speak louder than words and concepts?

"Positive 4D and negative 4D are quite unlike one another and in both cases the potential to experience the other density is somewhat forsaken (at least for a long time). "

In what sense are they unlike or like each other?

What do those densities mean to you?

"If an action is automatic because of an in-built bias, then it is not polarizing"

There was a part in the Ra archives that said some logoi did not allow free will to be present, so the natural default option was STO polarization over a very very long time. They considered this uninteresting or boring to the Creator, as the end result was already known and not very exciting. SOrta like reading a wikipedia spoiler of the plot of a movie.

The Hidden Hand and Era testimonies, also said the Logos of this world, YHVH (the ancient God of Mars/Hebrews), initially started this place without initiating free will. A garden of eden in which people did not know good and evil, is not polarizing yes.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

<B>Technically speaking, if we have an inherent bias toward kindness, it is also counter-productive for polarization.</b>

Why is there an inherent bias toward kindness?

If a person is kind, can hell not be paved with good intentions?

"To really make a choice, you need to be aware to a great extent of the two potentials."

Wouldn't actions speak louder than words and concepts?

"Positive 4D and negative 4D are quite unlike one another and in both cases the potential to experience the other density is somewhat forsaken (at least for a long time). "

In what sense are they unlike or like each other?

What do those densities mean to you?

"If an action is automatic because of an in-built bias, then it is not polarizing"

There was a part in the Ra archives that said some logoi did not allow free will to be present, so the natural default option was STO polarization over a very very long time. They considered this uninteresting or boring to the Creator, as the end result was already known and not very exciting. SOrta like reading a wikipedia spoiler of the plot of a movie.

The Hidden Hand and Era testimonies, also said the Logos of this world, YHVH (the ancient God of Mars/Hebrews), initially started this place without initiating free will. A garden of eden in which people did not know good and evil, is not polarizing yes.

Well, if Yod Heh Vav Heh is the original Logos (which it is) then wouldn't be the the God of all of us? Logos meaning WORD....

[Ymarsakar]

<B>Technically speaking, if we have an inherent bias toward kindness, it is also counter-productive for polarization.</b>

Why is there an inherent bias toward kindness?

If a person is kind, can hell not be paved with good intentions?

"To really make a choice, you need to be aware to a great extent of the two potentials."

Wouldn't actions speak louder than words and concepts?

"Positive 4D and negative 4D are quite unlike one another and in both cases the potential to experience the other density is somewhat forsaken (at least for a long time). "

In what sense are they unlike or like each other?

What do those densities mean to you?

"If an action is automatic because of an in-built bias, then it is not polarizing"

There was a part in the Ra archives that said some logoi did not allow free will to be present, so the natural default option was STO polarization over a very very long time. They considered this uninteresting or boring to the Creator, as the end result was already known and not very exciting. SOrta like reading a wikipedia spoiler of the plot of a movie.

The Hidden Hand and Era testimonies, also said the Logos of this world, YHVH (the ancient God of Mars/Hebrews), initially started this place without initiating free will. A garden of eden in which people did not know good and evil, is not polarizing yes.

Well, if Yod Heh Vav Heh is the original Logos (which it is) then wouldn't be the the God of all of us? Logos meaning WORD....

The spiritual hierarchy seems to be Prime Logos (Source), Sub Logos (Universe), Sub Sub Logos (Galaxy), Sub Sub Sub Logos (Solar System), and now a planetary Logos.

I prefer to think of it as a fractal as the language is very cumbersome. Fibonacci sequence instead. YHVH is called a "planetary logos", part of the Guardians, likely previous octave, part of the Counsel of 9/Saturn mentioned in a few sources.

As for what it means... it means that YHVH is Tara/Aurora, the 6-7-8th density "higher self" of Gaia+humanity. The time paradoxes involved in this issue... defeats me. This is not a normal paradox where the 6th density higher self SMC travels back into the past and telepoathically contacts its 3rd or 4th density "fractal self". This is something much more complicated, like "different octaves contacting their past and future octaves".

[Minyatur]

<B>Technically speaking, if we have an inherent bias toward kindness, it is also counter-productive for polarization.</b>

Why is there an inherent bias toward kindness?

If a person is kind, can hell not be paved with good intentions?

Like I said, the material described this as one path being more efficient than the other.

"To really make a choice, you need to be aware to a great extent of the two potentials."

Wouldn't actions speak louder than words and concepts?

Actions do not define one's intent, I believe everything can be done in multiple ways, especially in regard to one's intent.

"Positive 4D and negative 4D are quite unlike one another and in both cases the potential to experience the other density is somewhat forsaken (at least for a long time). "

In what sense are they unlike or like each other?

What do those densities mean to you?

To quote the material, 4D positive is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way. it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

I believe negative 4D is the opposite, as the sense of personal separation is emphasized instead.

"If an action is automatic because of an in-built bias, then it is not polarizing"

There was a part in the Ra archives that said some logoi did not allow free will to be present, so the natural default option was STO polarization over a very very long time. They considered this uninteresting or boring to the Creator, as the end result was already known and not very exciting. SOrta like reading a wikipedia spoiler of the plot of a movie.

The Hidden Hand and Era testimonies, also said the Logos of this world, YHVH (the ancient God of Mars/Hebrews), initially started this place without initiating free will. A garden of eden in which people did not know good and evil, is not polarizing yes.

The other polarity was simply not yet thought of. So growth in 3D, albeit extremely long compared to what we experience, was still about personal growth toward a desire for service. The experience was simply not very vivid and the safety was total.

The material does say certain Logoi now move back through time to incorporate free will as a foundation of their creation. Not really sure I'd take Hidden Hand for granted that this is our case, nor do I think YHVH is our Logos and more like some random social memory complex that got to interact with our planet like many others. YHVH seem to have played a more central role than some others though in their involvement with us humans, but that still does not make them our Logos in any way.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

<B>Technically speaking, if we have an inherent bias toward kindness, it is also counter-productive for polarization.</b>

Why is there an inherent bias toward kindness?

If a person is kind, can hell not be paved with good intentions?

"To really make a choice, you need to be aware to a great extent of the two potentials."

Wouldn't actions speak louder than words and concepts?

"Positive 4D and negative 4D are quite unlike one another and in both cases the potential to experience the other density is somewhat forsaken (at least for a long time). "

In what sense are they unlike or like each other?

What do those densities mean to you?

"If an action is automatic because of an in-built bias, then it is not polarizing"

There was a part in the Ra archives that said some logoi did not allow free will to be present, so the natural default option was STO polarization over a very very long time. They considered this uninteresting or boring to the Creator, as the end result was already known and not very exciting. SOrta like reading a wikipedia spoiler of the plot of a movie.

The Hidden Hand and Era testimonies, also said the Logos of this world, YHVH (the ancient God of Mars/Hebrews), initially started this place without initiating free will. A garden of eden in which people did not know good and evil, is not polarizing yes.

Well, if Yod Heh Vav Heh is the original Logos (which it is) then wouldn't be the the God of all of us? Logos meaning WORD....

The spiritual hierarchy seems to be Prime Logos (Source), Sub Logos (Universe), Sub Sub Logos (Galaxy), Sub Sub Sub Logos (Solar System), and now a planetary Logos.

I prefer to think of it as a fractal as the language is very cumbersome. Fibonacci sequence instead. YHVH is called a "planetary logos", part of the Guardians, likely previous octave, part of the Counsel of 9/Saturn mentioned in a few sources.

As for what it means... it means that YHVH is Tara/Aurora, the 6-7-8th density "higher self" of Gaia+humanity. The time paradoxes involved in this issue... defeats me. This is not a normal paradox where the 6th density higher self SMC travels back into the past and telepoathically contacts its 3rd or 4th density "fractal self". This is something much more complicated, like "different octaves contacting their past and future octaves".

hmmm...

[jafar]

The material does say certain Logoi now move back through time to incorporate free will as a foundation of their creation. Not really sure I'd take Hidden Hand for granted that this is our case, nor do I think YHVH is our Logos and more like some random social memory complex that got to interact with our planet like many others. YHVH seem to have played a more central role than some others though in their involvement with us humans, but that still does not make them our Logos in any way.

A "Logoi" by itself is a 'finite consciousness' a 'karmic construct' with a defined border / limit, used for 'identification'.

What interest me more is the 'layer of identification', thus I highlighted the "Our Logos" statement above.

jafar is a web forum avatar, specifically a bring4th forum avatar.
In that sense bring4th forum is the 'logoi' of jafar.

The consciousness behind jafar has many web forum avatars, both in bring4th forum and also many other forums. Each web forum avatar thus has it's own respective "logoi" to be identified as "our logos".

But in collective sense, all of those web forums are "my logos" of "my many avatars".

Moving up one level, the consciousness behind jafar also has physical vessel, in a form of humanoid.
The humanoid form of jafar consciousness came from Planet Earth, thus planet earth is among the "Logoi" of "humanoid form avatar".
Then came the branches, the planet earth also has it's own respective "logoi"..

And the consciousness behind the humanoid form also has it's own respective "logoi".. and the humanoid form of planet earth is merely one among many humanoid form avatar that the consciousness behind the humanoid form has and will experienced.

Thus the process continue up the layer, until it meet the "Infinite Source".
Each "identification form" actually have many "logoi" but all of those logoi came from the one infinite source to begin with.

[Ymarsakar]

Jafar s understanding from his higher self is correct.

How many candidatea for logos of earth or the solar system are there?

3 by my count. Iamraw and others disqualify themselves. So do you have a better option in mind than a different octave guardian?

Notice that if there is a contest between the venusian power line of heyl el the morning star of venus, god s confusion and the howling star vs yh shin vh, then by the rules of the counsel of 9 and the law of confusion created by heylel the confusiom of god, aka lucifer satan, then no mortal in the logos is allowed to know for sure about this. Every thing will have been redacted. Only starseed wanderer type memories from outside this solar logos might apply.

Why does iamraw say jesus is lord? Why does the Ra smc need to ask the c of 9 for permission when yh shin vh did not need permission and could bypass free will of mars plus intervene?

[Minyatur]

The material does say certain Logoi now move back through time to incorporate free will as a foundation of their creation. Not really sure I'd take Hidden Hand for granted that this is our case, nor do I think YHVH is our Logos and more like some random social memory complex that got to interact with our planet like many others. YHVH seem to have played a more central role than some others though in their involvement with us humans, but that still does not make them our Logos in any way.

A "Logoi" by itself is a 'finite consciousness' a 'karmic construct' with a defined border / limit, used for 'identification'.

What interest me more is the 'layer of identification', thus I highlighted the "Our Logos" statement above.

jafar is a web forum avatar, specifically a bring4th forum avatar.
In that sense bring4th forum is the 'logoi' of jafar.

The consciousness behind jafar has many web forum avatars, both in bring4th forum and also many other forums. Each web forum avatar thus has it's own respective "logoi" to be identified as "our logos".

But in collective sense, all of those web forums are "my logos" of "my many avatars".

Moving up one level, the consciousness behind jafar also has physical vessel, in a form of humanoid.
The humanoid form of jafar consciousness came from Planet Earth,  thus planet earth is among the "Logoi" of "humanoid form avatar".
Then came the branches, the planet earth also has it's own respective "logoi"..

And the consciousness behind the humanoid form also has it's own respective "logoi".. and the humanoid form of planet earth is merely one among many humanoid form avatar that the consciousness behind the humanoid form has and will experienced.

Thus the process continue up the layer, until it meet the "Infinite Source".
Each "identification form" actually have many "logoi" but all of those logoi came from the one infinite source to begin with.

Well surely everything goes back to a unified source, but so long as you are within the scope of the second distortion, then there is a manyness to Logos/focus. Our Octave itself being that as a separate focus of infinity. So when discussing the concept of Logos/sub-Logoi, it make sense as a notion of differentiating in-between entities. That between our Octave and the next lies the Source does not either deny the intricateness of our Octave either in its make up and how we experience it, just that it ultimately is an illusion in all its paradoxes.

What I meant by that YHWH is not our Logos is the same as how Ra has not defined themselves as our Logos and instead described that they are part of a common Logos with us. So I'm not saying that YHWH is not Source, just that they are their own citizen of our cosmos operating from their native density. From what the material says, they are a group of entities that is part of the same confederation as Ra, this confederation being local to our galaxy and a few surrounding ones.

Taking how the material present things, we as entities all have our own distinct Higher Self. Or rather, each entity of the many entities exists as three points within the circle of the Octave. There is lower self that experiences a stream of incarnations across the densities, the higher self that only exists in 6D and is turned backward toward its lower self in true simultaneity and the 7D self totality. The only mention of these blending together is in regard to social memory complexes, where Ra says it is both true that each entity has its own distinct higher self/self totality and that for a social memory complex (usually formed in 4D+) there is also a union of each individual's higher self/self totality as a unified resource that is greater than the sum of its parts. This I believe, being extremely dynamic to the make up of the social memory complex at any given moment.

So while it is well to recognize the inherent Oneness found in all things, it is not either always useful to navigate our reality either. To evolve throughout the densities, you need to do so as the creature of our Octave that you are and which is your own focus.

Why does iamraw say jesus is lord? Why does the Ra smc need to ask the c of 9 for permission when yh shin vh did not need permission and could bypass free will of mars plus intervene?

Ra never said that jesus is lord. They said jesus was an harvestable 4D entity that could have harvested into 5D but instead asked permission to perform a mission in wandering back into 3D.

Nor does the material say Yahweh bypassed the council, on the contrary it seems to say that they were sent here by the confederation and were responsible for certain things, which they mostly failed at in their desired intent.

[Ymarsakar]

In order to get past Carla s challenge, dont you know what the nature of her challenge is?

Yh shin vh is part of the council of 9 that iamraw needs to ask permission from. There is no need to bypass oneself.

What the material says and how much of it you can comprehend and process, are two independent parts.

Are you able to use logic and human wisdon to figure out what the clues lead to? Or will you utilize a less curious dogmatic or non analytical approach to the channeled text?

This is a black magic thread. Not a "my bible says this so it must be what i think" thread.

If you are not interested in thinking critically about sources from numerous lines such as hidden hand, c of 9, blavatsky, then i strongly suggest you clearly exercise your right to not know, min.

I exercise my right to know these testimonies and the right to consider them on their merits. Do not attempt to engage my energies if they do not align with my purpose here.

[Patrick]

Somehow those of negative polarity cannot say that they are aligned with the Christ consciousness.

[Minyatur]

In order to get past Carla s challenge, dont you know what the nature of her challenge is?

Yh shin vh is part of the council of 9 that iamraw needs to ask permission from. There is no need to bypass oneself.

What the material says and how much of it you can comprehend and process, are two independent parts.

Are you able to use logic and human wisdon to figure out what the clues lead to? Or will you utilize a less curious dogmatic or non analytical approach to the channeled text?

This is a black magic thread. Not a "my bible says this so it must be what i think" thread.

If you are not interested in thinking critically about sources from numerous lines such as hidden hand, c of 9, blavatsky, then i strongly suggest you clearly exercise your right to not know, min.

I exercise my right to know these testimonies and the right to consider them on their merits. Do not attempt to engage my energies if they do not align with my purpose here.

I did read hidden hand but not the other two. Sounds like it would just go back to saying that your bible said YHWH is this or that. I don't take the Ra material as my bible, more like a resource that has been useful to me, but since this is a forum centered around it then it does make sense to lean more towards it.

Ra material or no Ra material, I do not think Yahweh is anything close to being our Logos. It is a group of consciousness that has been aggrandized by negative schemes, so it does make sense they can be seen as more than they are by some.

[Patrick]

Ra being close to their 7d harvest is probably the closest avatar we have of our sub-Logos.

[zedro]

Funny how the other day I was thinking that the 'Deity's' involved (the council???) on this planet would be those planetary Logos from the original soul 'races' brought here as 'refugees' (reformers), because if you were 'born' from them, you would remain as part of them as long as you were in 3d still at least. It would explain the complex mythologies.

[zedro]

So while it is well to recognize the inherent Oneness found in all things, it is not either always useful to navigate our reality either. To evolve throughout the densities, you need to do so as the creature of our Octave that you are and which is your own focus.

If feel this thought could be used at some point in the majority of threads here when someone inevitably tries to bypass the entire conversation with the tried (tired) and true "we are all one” line. It should be the last thing you say before you dissolve back into source, but until then, get back to work lol.

[Patrick]

...until then, get back to work lol.

There's nothing else to do down here.

[Dtris]

Jafar s understanding from his higher self is correct.

How many candidatea for logos of earth or the solar system are there?

3 by my count. Iamraw and others disqualify themselves. So do you have a better option in mind than a different octave guardian?

Notice that if there is a contest between the venusian power line of heyl el the morning star of venus, god s confusion and the howling star vs yh shin vh, then by the rules of the counsel of 9 and the law of confusion created by heylel the confusiom of god, aka lucifer satan, then no mortal in the logos is allowed to know for sure about this. Every thing will have been redacted. Only starseed wanderer type memories from outside this solar logos might apply.

Why does iamraw say jesus is lord? Why does the Ra smc need to ask the c of 9 for permission when yh shin vh did not need permission and could bypass free will of mars plus intervene?

You have a misunderstanding of Logos as it is used in the Ra material.

Logos comes from the greek and means reason and has been used since the 1500s to mean a divine wisdom or intelligence.

The creator itself is the prime logos as Ra uses the word. It is used to reference a portion of intelligent infinity which has manifested in a specific manner. The next major Logos is that of the Galaxy as a whole. Then each star has its own Logos, followed by each planet, then each moon, and finally each individual life-form native to those bodies. The logos is hierarchical in nature and is independent of the densities. Each Logos determines the parameters of manifested creation within its domain, and each sub logos is independent but must further refine the creation within their own domain while being unable to change any of the parameters set by the higher logos.

Ra described stellar and planetary bodies as existing within all densities at once and being outside the evolution thru thru the rays. While we are obviously moving thru the evolution. Yet all are described as Logoi. This shows that being logos is true for any conscious portion of creation, while moving thru the densities is not necessary for all logoi.

We can further use logic to deduce that the level of the solar and galactic logos are those which have never evolved thru the densities, and thus would not be an entity as we understand the term. Which is why when referring to the galactic, solar, and plantetary logos Ra never used the term Mind/Body/Spirit Complex to describe those entities. While all named entities, including Ra themselves are described as a Mind/Body/Spirit Complex. This includes entities of every density of which the positive and negative YHVH and the positive YHSVH are part of 5th and 6th density. None of these entities can be a logos on the level of planetary or above, since by nature they are inferior to those logos which exist in all densities simultaneously.

[Minyatur]

To note that Ra said that for a planetary entity to be named a Logos, it needs to be working in harmonic fashion with entities or mind/body complexes upon its surface or within its electromagnetic field. This was in response to Don asking if our planet was some form of sub-sub-Logos and seems to indicate that is not yet the case. In a later session, the material seems to indicate that we 3D entities are parents to the planetary entity that will be born.

Usually when they speak of our Logos within the material, they refer to our solar Logos which designed our archetypal mind and evolution. In the same quote I was mentioning above (65.17), after stating our relationship with the Earth (humans/parents to Earth/child) they describe our relationship with the Sun. Like Dtris said, the relation is said to be otherwise and to be a relationship of Creator, that is Logos, to Creator that is mind/body/spirit complex, indicating that the Sun/local Logos is not a mind/body/spirit complex such as us.

To move beyond the bible quoting, I do have multiple experiences of deep communion with our Logos and me saying that it is not Yahweh in any way comes more from there than what is written or not in the material. If the material said that was the case, then I'd say that would be quite fishy. My liking of the Ra material comes from how deeply I've resonated with what I've found in it, not that I've wanted something to believe in. Things like Hidden Hand are thrilling to read, and they sure do arouse one's curiosity, but they do not have the same effect of feeling like they speak to me from beyond the veil and have enabled me to awake and connect to my own higher self. To me, they act more like a gateway so that you may then find deeper things afterwards.