[split] Free will infringement and the monetary system

[Dtris]

Q'uo mentioned something about money as energy transfer, that the problem was trying to bottleneck it or store it, if I recall. The problem with money was not using it as an energy transaction but hoarding essentially, as it blocked the free flow of energy.

Someone hoarding billions and trillions and using this money to make more money, using it as leverage to farm humans as livestock so they don't actually need to work or give back to the collective, becomes a problem.

All the ways of putting a maximum amount of money any entities (people, corporations, etc...) can hoard will be viewed as a form of socialism.

I wonder how the public would see an initiative where all people have a maximum amount they can hoard before being obligated to spend any excess.  The person/business could spend it however they like.

They would probably come up with elaborate schemes where the money passes hands in a circular fashion in order to still hoard resources.

The people who are thought of as hoarding money do not have as much hoarded as you think.

I will use Jeff Bezos as an example. He is the first person to have a net worth over $200 billion. People hear that and read that and think that he has $200 billion dollars sitting around somewhere. Money sitting somewhere and not being Circulated as Yamarskar is talking about.

What is Net Worth? It is the amount of cash a person would theoretically be able to obtain is they sold all their assets and paid off all of their liabilities. Over 2/3rds of Bezos net worth is in his ownership of Amazon. It isn't real money. There are people all the time saying he can just pay everyone in the country $3000 dollars or whatever. That isn't how it works though. That $200 billion is almost entirely represented by his ownership of various companies, mainly amazon, and then his ownership of other assets, like his houses, cars, boats, planes, etc. Usually the smallest portion is liquid cash. Most of the money is going to be tied up in stocks, bonds, and other investments.

The only way anyone could get $200 billion from Bezos is if he sold amazon and everything else. Then other people would have to provide the cash to buy those assets and the companies.

Washington where Bezos lives currently is proposing a wealth tax on people whose Net Worth is over 100 million or something. A 10% wealth tax would require Bezos to sell $20 billion dollars worth of assets every year to give the cash to the government. However all that does is force the assets to be transferred to other people, in places without a wealth tax. It doesn't generate value since all it does is move things around.

Now let us look at our own situations. I recently bought a house and for example we will say it was $200K. I paid 20% down or 40k, and financed the rest. I had $40k in cash and no liabilities. Now I have $160k in debt and a house worth $200k. My networth is still the same, except I don't have any cash anymore. I used it to buy the house. I used more of it to fix a bunch of stuff and build a fence.

So where do the banks get the $160k for my house loan? The answer is from YOU. They use deposits to issue loans to other people. This is why you can earn interest on a savings account. When you deposit money in a bank it does not sit still in a vault being untouched. The bank uses that money to make loans and then earns a profit from the interest on the loans. The fees for your checking or other account are minor.

This literally creates money. Since your dollar exists in your account and it was also given out as a loan. So you have 2 of your dollars floating around. Then that loan was used to buy a house, which someone was paid that money, and your dollar went to the seller. The seller then went to celebrate and gave it to a server as a tip as a restaurant, who then deposits that dollar in their account, and the bank loans it out again, making 3 dollars out of 1. The total number of times this happens is called the money multiplier.

The only way to really stop money from circulating at this point is either for savings to grow higher than loan demand, or to literally take cash out and put it in a vault.