Veggies by Force...

[Monica]

A true vegetarian eats no animal products.

Well, I'd rather not quibble over terminology. This just shows that people use terms in different ways. Another member might now post that vegetarians can eat chicken too! Who gets to decide who's right?

I don't play golf. If I am speaking to a person who plays golf, I will defer to his/her use of golf terms.

I've belonged to a number of vegetarian societies over the years and all of them welcomed lacto-ovo vegetarians. I am just offering the consensually agreed-upon definition. The term vegan was coined to differentiate between vegetarians who consume eggs and dairy and those who don't.

I require Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B12 in order to exist and be spiritual. These vitamins come from raw milk, raw butter, raw cheese and are in eggs and meats.

That is my point precisely. Since these nutrients are found in abundance in eggs and dairy, why kill an animal unnecessarily? Why eat meat when the nutrients can be provided in organically-produced eggs and dairy, in which no animal suffered? Why not reduce the suffering if possible?

That's what I truly don't understand.

What happens if I accidently inhale an insect or eat a bug that is living in the plant.

Well, that would be the same as if we accidentally hit a dog or a squirrel with our car. It's an accident. I just don't follow the logic of intentionally killing dogs and squirrels just because I might occasionally kill one on the road.

I wish you well on your paths as Vegetarians. Balance for me is key and has been found... it involves eating eggs, cheese and milk and being a meat minimalist at times when I feel I need the amino acids within the meat.

OK. I wish you well as well! I hope that we can discuss this without anyone feeling offended. We vegetarians have valid points and questions that we would like to discuss without any judgement. I hope that we can explore this topic with the spirit of love and understanding of different points of view.

Killing? That is a completely different subject. Simply by being here as Humans every breath we take we are creating violence and killing something. Every time we get into our car the chances of killing are high... Violence by its core definition is in direct conflict to living.

Ah, this is very enlightening! :idea: So are you saying that every death is an act of violence?

I find this confusing. I don't consider a natural death or an accidental death to be violence. If a driver accidentally runs over a child playing in the street, I don't consider that violence. To me, violence is the intentional act of harming another entity.

Stepping on a bug for no reason, just because it's a bug, is violence. Accidentally hitting a bug with your windshield isn't violence.

Breathing microorganisms in the air isn't violence. We were designed to breathe the air, and we must breathe the air. And, how do we know the microorganisms are even being killed, anyway? Being swept up into our nostrils might just be part of their normal lifecycle.

But, aside from those with specific medical conditions requiring the use of meat, most of us don't need to eat animals. We know the animals suffer. Therefore, how can the killing of animals unnecessarily be viewed as anything but violence?

I truly mean no judgement here. I am truly confused about this. I truly don't understand the inconsistency. I have seen my dad butcher chickens and I have seen what goes on in slaughterhouses. I don't think most people have any clue just how much heaviness all those millions of violent deaths each day are adding to this planet's pain. It's sad enough that humans continue to slaughter one another in warzones. Why must we add to it when there are peaceful alternatives?

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As there is a danger in making vegetarianism a religion and dogma. This may further lead to judgement of others and feeling inherent superiority based upon the food choices...

Do you think this is what we are doing? I am curious. If you only knew how much we are trying to not do that!

I agree that it's very easy to get into dogma and judgement, with any personal choice. I have definitely been guilty of that in the past. When I first became a vegetarian, I was like a newly-converted religious person! I turned a lot of people off!

I don't do that anymore. I no longer approach strangers in restaurants and tell them they are being cruel by ordering that steak.

On the other hand, don't we vegetarians have just as much right to express our views as those who eat meat? Why must we feel anxious about expressing our views? Why are Pablisimo and I so nervous about expressing what we really feel? Why can't we be accepted for our views, just as we are expected to accept others for theirs?

I'm not saying that we aren't being accepted. I'm just voicing some concerns. I am getting the impression that we're walking a fine line here, and the pressure is on us, the vegetarians, to suppress our true feelings lest anyone be offended. In other words, if anyone is offended, it will likely be viewed as the fault of the vegetarians, for being so self-righteous. Yet, this thread is about being vegetarian! If we cannot speak openly here in this thread, where then can we express ourselves?

The reverse doesn't seem to be true. In other threads, in which the eating of animals was discussed, the vegetarians could have easily been offended. I personally found some of the discussion very distasteful, but I kept my feelings to myself. Somehow, I didn't think that those discussing meat would have understood why a vegetarian might feel offended. It just seems like a double standard. So many times have I experienced people getting offended by my mere presence. For example, I'd be in a restaurant and ask the waiter what they had that was vegetarian, and immediately the jokes would start flying. Or sometimes people would immediately start defending their meat choices, when I never said a single word about what they were eating!

Why do people tend to get defensive about eating meat? And why is the burden on the vegetarians to watch out for the meat eaters' feelings?

These are just musings that I have wondered for a long time. I see it happening, to some degree, even here, in a community that is so loving and courteous.

I could just not mention these thoughts. But by suppressing them, they are still in the mass consciousness. If we can't reconcile our differences here, what hope is there for the rest of the world? I have confidence that our love and compassion for one another will prevail!!! I am baring my soul here, NOT to judge anyone, but to express some of my deep feelings on this issue. I hope that others will understand and that we can all reach out to one another in love, without judgement.