1979.06.17 Hatonn on the Octave

[Plenum]

this is a session done a few years before the Ra contact began (1979). It is interesting as it correlates with a few key points that Ra made regards the octave.

H: I have a question. I keep reading in the literature—metaphysical literature, psychic literature—that there are seven levels, seven states of consciousness, seven heavens, or something of this sort. Is this a valid concept?

We are aware of the question. I am Hatonn. You are no doubt familiar with the concept of quantum mechanics and also with the octave which you may find on any piano.

There are in a major scale, as this instrument would put it, seven different notes, having a relationship to each other which is pleasant. And then there is an octave. In that octave there is an identity—top note with bottom and the tonality begins again. Thus it is with quanta, where you have just so much occurring within a quantum; and then there is a leap, shall we say, to another set of configurations.

There has often been in your culture the term “seventh heaven” heard, and it is only one of many popular beliefs that there is not only a heaven but that there are various heavens for those who have done various things,

Your rather primitive Christian dogma would limit one’s heavens to two—one good and one bad—with a rather neutral zone in between for those who have not yet decided whether to be bad or good. This is not accurate.

There are, indeed, seven levels within the realm within the next dimension or quantum—from you. This plane has been called by Theosophists the astral plane.

Hatonn here is saying that 4th density correlates to the Astral Plane.

Beyond that quantum there is a further octave of seven, and that plane is sometimes called the devachanic. Beyond that plane there is another octave of seven, which is sometimes called spiritual by your people. Beyond that plane few among your peoples who are incarnate upon your planet have traveled.

here 5th density is called 'devachanic'.

in a passage on the 7 bodies which correlate to vehicles in which mind/body/spirit complexes can interact with the different densities, this is the term that Ra offers us as well.

"47.8 The light body or blue-ray body may be called the devachanic body. There are many other names for this body especially in your so-called Indian Sutras or writings, for there are those among these peoples which have explored these regions and understand the various types of devachanic bodies."

There are an infinite number of octaves in the heavenly music. The number seven, however, is the number of completeness, for that is, shall we say, the scale of vibrations within each quantum.

Does this answer your question, my brother?

new question

H: Yes, thank you—except I would like to know now in which octave or in which level of an octave are you?

Well, we are speaking only for ourselves, for we are only one of over 500 civilizations which take part in this operation concerning planet Earth, the planet of sadness, at this time.

Ra references the number 500 in their discussion of the Confederation.

"There are approximately fifty-three civilizations, comprising approximately five hundred planetary consciousness complexes in this Confederation."

We, ourselves, vibrate within the fifth octave. You vibrate within the third. There are many in the Confederation which vibrate in the sixth, and some in the fourth. We have three among our number who, though vibrating in the third dimension, have done so in such harmony that they are able to aid us in spite of the gross physical illusion that they are experiencing and are able to aid us by thought. So you see, my friends, your condition is not hopeless. Your bodies do not pin you down as specimens pinned under a glass table. It is your minds that imprison you by accepting the illusion. We ask you, therefore, to open your minds to the freedom of realizing that there are infinite illusions and that your imagination has the freedom and the right to play among them as at will.

well, this at least clarifies some of the terminology used for me. I was undecided as to whether the astral referred to inner planes 3d, or if it was a different density.

it is probably best to conceive of the octave as a 'whole'; and while there are boundary points, we do have access to the other notes of the octave given enough discipline and desire to seek.

I will end with the godfather Ra speaking



47.8 Each of these bodies has an effect upon your mind/body/spirit complex in your life beingness. The interrelationships, as we have said, are many and complex.

...

These bodies are part of each entity and the proper use of them and understanding of them is, though far advanced from the standpoint of third-density harvest, nevertheless useful to the adept.

cheers!

full perusal is available here: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0617.aspx

[Ashim]

well, this at least clarifies some of the terminology used for me. I was undecided as to whether the astral referred to inner planes 3d, or if it was a different density.

I think when the term 'astral' is used that it refers to the distorted 3rd density time/space of our sphere.
It may be possible to work up into 4th density time/space through the astral if one can disable the 'booby traps', but I've always seen it as the time/space analogue of the 3d octave.

Later in the session Hatonn says this.

the octave directly above you is the fourth and is called by the one whom you call Paul, the apostle, the spiritual kingdom

[anagogy]

There are, indeed, seven levels within the realm within the next dimension or quantum—from you. This plane has been called by Theosophists the astral plane.

Hatonn here is saying that 4th density correlates to the Astral Plane.

I think, as is often the case with words, its meaning and reference has expanded. It is for this reason, I don't even like the word "astral plane". It is somewhat nebulous in my opinion. Much as the word "etheric" has become most nebulous in occult circles.

From Ra, we know that 4th density has a physical component, and a nonphysical component. I would lean towards calling the nonphysical component of this plane "the higher astral". But then, I would also call the nonphysical portions of 2nd density, and 3rd density "astral" as well (2nd being "lower astral", and 3rd being "middle astral").

well, this at least clarifies some of the terminology used for me. I was undecided as to whether the astral referred to inner planes 3d, or if it was a different density.

So if I may ask, Plenum, what would you call the inner planes of 2nd and 3rd density?

I look forward to your response.

[Ashim]

Maybe 'astral' is just being used to describe time/space and not a particular density.

[Hototo]

*sighs* round and round she goes, where she lands no one knows.

Astral. The period of time beginning from the realization of the possibility of magic by will.

[Bat]

I would say that the higher time/space 3rd density planes are what i would think of as the lower astral planes. 4th Density i would say would be the higher astral planes. It doesn't really matter so much, its only words.

[AnthroHeart]

I've astral projected a few times, so I know what it feels like. If that is 4D, then I'm impressed. Although my experience of trying to fly has been difficult as I wasn't that far into the astral. I once has the experience of an entity sitting on my stomach while I was lying down, and it was heavy. I hope higher astral is what 4D is about. Then it would have some familiarity.

[jivatman]

4D, properly, does have a space/time and time/space (astral) polarization, as we do.

However, the polarization is far, far less extreme. It is much easier to move between them, as well as to manifest magical abilities in space/time.

And there is no veil.

[Plenum]

From Ra, we know that 4th density has a physical component, and a nonphysical component. I would lean towards calling the nonphysical component of this plane "the higher astral". But then, I would also call the nonphysical portions of 2nd density, and 3rd density "astral" as well (2nd being "lower astral", and 3rd being "middle astral").

So if I may ask, Plenum, what would you call the inner planes of 2nd and 3rd density?

I look forward to your response.

yeah, I'm not sure there anagogy. I guess each density has its own outer (physically expressed) and inner portions (time/space).

also - I've not had the direct recalled experience of OBE's and journeying into these spaces; so without the experiential basis from which to base my framework, I am only holding an analogy in my head which might only match a few characteristics of the 'real system' as it functions.

but this Hatonn piece helped me to synchonize some of my throughts about these higher planes with what Ra has left us.

- -

and as others have said - the specific words are not important in and of themselves; it is more the mental mapping that we have associated with those words that leads to greater precision or looseness of thinking.

and thanks for your thoughts @Ashim. I know you have much more direct experience with these matters than myself and perhaps many others.

cheers

[anagogy]

and as others have said - the specific words are not important in and of themselves; it is more the mental mapping that we have associated with those words that leads to greater precision or looseness of thinking.

I agree completely, which is why I find the session with Hatonn interesting as they make no mention whatsoever of the distinction between inner planes and outer planes with regards to 4th density. Some mind candy to ponder I suppose.

[Ashim]

and as others have said - the specific words are not important in and of themselves; it is more the mental mapping that we have associated with those words that leads to greater precision or looseness of thinking.

I agree completely, which why I find the session with Hatonn interesting as they make no mention whatsoever of the distinction between inner planes and outer planes with regards to 4th density. Some mind candy to ponder I suppose.

Ra seems to say that the astral comprises of 3rd and 4th density time/space which would make sense as earth is in 4th density space/time continuum. So technically 4th density time/space belongs to earths inner planes.

Ra: I am Ra. Entities inhabit the various planes due to their vibrational nature. The astral plane varies from thought-forms in the lower extremities to enlightened beings who become dedicated to teach/learning in the higher astral planes.

There was also something about 4th density earth becoming populated albeit sparsely. Can't find that quote though.

The term 'inner planes' also causes some confusion.
I think it may refer to both time/space and to space/time, the physical hollow earth inhabitants belonging to the latter.
What is an inner plane of a hollow sphere?

I think that the veil has shielded us from outer plane or space/time 4th density - the lunar matrix restricting the visible light spectrum.

[Fastidious Emanations]

the earth is not a sphere, it is based on a platonic solid, I think dodecahedron or icosahedron, forget I.

[anagogy]

Ra seems to say that the astral comprises of 3rd and 4th density time/space which would make sense as earth is in 4th density space/time continuum. So technically 4th density time/space belongs to earths inner planes.

I look at it slightly differently. From my perspective, when Ra says the Earth has spiraled into 4D space/time, they are conveying that the 3D structure that constitutes our Earth has moved into 4D space. Now, this doesn't necessarily change those 3D structures. At least, not immediately. 3D objects can exist in 4D, and, in fact, do. It just means another dimensional layer gets added to those 3D structures. Now it could change those 3D objects in the fact that 4D molds 3D, once it is activated.

So I would say Earth's inner planes span many vibrational levels of time/space. In fact, it spans all seven densities. However it only has outer plane manifestations in densities 1, 2, 3, and now partially in 4th.

There was also something about 4th density earth becoming populated albeit sparsely. Can't find that quote though.

They were referring to dual activated 3rd/4th beings when they were talking about it being populated.

The term 'inner planes' also causes some confusion.
I think it may refer to both time/space and to space/time, the physical hollow earth inhabitants belonging to the latter.
What is an inner plane of a hollow sphere?

From my perspective "inner planes" literally means "within" us. The "self" is the barrier between "who you are" and "where you are". So the inner planes are inside what you perceive to be your "self", and the outer planes are outside of what you perceive to be your self. The self creates the distinction between "inner" and "outer".

"Inner plane", from my point of view, refers to nothing physical whatsoever.

[Ashim]

the earth is not a sphere, it is based on a platonic solid, I think dodecahedron or icosahedron, forget I.

Ra refers to the earth and other planetary bodies as spheres.
http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q=sphere

They were referring to dual activated 3rd/4th beings when they were talking about it being populated.

Yes, but those not in incarnation will also be included in the harvest and that is now.

Regarding 'physical' inner planes - this quote is interesting.

60.23 Questioner: And there are no— are there any inner civilizations or entities living in these areas that are some of the other than physically incarnate who do come and materialize on the Earth’s surface at times?

Ra: I am Ra. As we have noted, there are some which do as you say. Further, there are some inner plane entities of this planet which prefer to do some materialization into third-density visible in these areas. There are also bases, shall we say, in these areas of those from elsewhere, both positive and negative. There are abandoned cities.

[anagogy]

Yes, but those not in incarnation will also be included in the harvest and that is now.

Actually, they never say "also". They just say, "Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest."

Please note that they never say that those who *are* in incarnation will be included in the harvest. Harvest is a time/space event that occurs upon cessation of incarnation in the outer planes.

[Ashim]

Yes, but those not in incarnation will also be included in the harvest and that is now.

Actually, they never say "also". They just say, "Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest."

Please note that they never say that those who *are* in incarnation will be included in the harvest. Harvest is a time/space event that occurs upon cessation of incarnation in the outer planes.

Good point.
Makes me really think that we are ascending in the physical.
No harvest.
If the planet does not require the cosmic 'clean up' there would be no need to leave physicality.
If the core vibration of the photon increases to 4th density then we hitch a ride and transmute from the 666 carbon template up to silica without the time/space harvest.
We walk the steps of light in physical bodies.
Nibiru has passed this time without any major disruptions to the planetary body - earths positive polarity 'deflected' her approach.
Very negative planet, ie Maldek, gets detroyed, Nibiru makes a close pass.
Mars got the 'cosmic wash' from an asteroid from the Nibiru system, the crossing being slightly more distant.
Earth ascends at the end of the 26.000 year cycle without hitting the 'reset' button.
Could it really be that Ra just saw the harvest as being very probable/possible and that we have tipped the balance?

Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

[AnthroHeart]

Good point.
Makes me really think that we are ascending in the physical.
No harvest.

That makes me more eager to stay if we are indeed ascending. It's hard to put up with the people in my life, making me eager to depart and make harvest that way.

[anagogy]

Good point.
Makes me really think that we are ascending in the physical.
No harvest.
If the planet does not require the cosmic 'clean up' there would be no need to leave physicality.
If the core vibration of the photon increases to 4th density then we hitch a ride and transmute from the 666 carbon template up to silica without the time/space harvest.
We walk the steps of light in physical bodies.
Nibiru has passed this time without any major disruptions to the planetary body - earths positive polarity 'deflected' her approach.
Very negative planet, ie Maldek, gets detroyed, Nibiru makes a close pass.
Mars got the 'cosmic wash' from an asteroid from the Nibiru system, the crossing being slightly more distant.
Earth ascends at the end of the 26.000 year cycle without hitting the 'reset' button.
Could it really be that Ra just saw the harvest as being very probable/possible and that we have tipped the balance?

I think you lost me.

What I was saying is that, from my perspective, the Ra material seems to say, at least to me, that there is, in fact, a harvest. It is just not a physical one.

When you die, you walk the steps of light. That is harvest. If you're 4th density harvestable, you reincarnate in a 4th density physical body.

The physicality we are familiar with now does not "ascend", rather it manifests a higher dimensional layer. It is possible for one energy configuration to change to another configuration, but it is not necessary from my perspective. When we become 4th density incarnate, the Earth we are inhabiting now will still be here, it just won't have human beings on it.

The "cosmic cleanup" from my perspective is just 3rd density beings leaving the Earth alone for a couple millennia. Earth will heal itself, just as a body will heal itself if you stop doing destructive things to it.

[Adonai One]

The physicality we are familiar with now does not "ascend", rather it manifests a higher dimensional layer.

It does not. 4th-density peoples have an option of veiling themselves from others through a different space/time. Other than that, no, this universe is not spawning new space/times automatically for evolving life.

Densities are not dimensions. They are classifications of life.

Hatton only speaks of vibrations and time/space planes. Space/time is a different beast.

I can only assume when these entities say things such as the "sixth-dimension" they are referring to the phenomenon that happens when all of space and time unifies in the perception of such beings.

[anagogy]

It does not. 4th-density peoples have an option of veiling themselves from others through a different space/time. Other than that, no, this universe is not spawning new space/times automatically for evolving life.

Who said anything about "spawning new space/times automatically"?

Ra has stated that it is a natural spiraling of our planet/galaxy into this vibrational spectrum, which then allows the Earth to become "fourth density magnetized". And what do you mean by "veiling themselves from others through a different space/time"? Who are they veiling themselves from besides 3rd density earth (which won't be inhabited/activated for some millennia anyhow)?

And do you have quotes to support your perspective?

Densities are not dimensions. They are classifications of life.

I don't recall ever saying they were the same thing. Also, Ra has defined densities as "The term density is a, what you would call, mathematical one. The closest analogy is that of music, whereby after seven notes on your western type of scale, if you will, the eighth note begins a new octave." So while I wouldn't necessarily argue with your definition, I would more liken them to vibrational domains where life may exist in. I guess it all depends on your definition of "life" though.

Having said that, however, there are instances where both Ra and Hatonn use them interchangeably. I think its important to take into account the context of any given quote.

Hatton only speaks of vibrations and time/space planes. Space/time is a different beast.

Indeed.

I can only assume when these entities say things such as the "sixth-dimension" they are referring to the phenomenon that happens when all of space and time unifies in the perception of such beings.

Why do you assume that?

[zenmaster]

well, this at least clarifies some of the terminology used for me. I was undecided as to whether the astral referred to inner planes 3d, or if it was a different density.

It's the inner planes of 3D, if you're 3D vibrating.

[Parsons]

I think when the term 'astral' is used that it refers to the distorted 3rd density time/space of our sphere.
It may be possible to work up into 4th density time/space through the astral if one can disable the 'booby traps', but I've always seen it as the time/space analogue of the 3d octave.

The green-ray body is that body which may be seen in séance when what you call ectoplasm is furnished. This is a lighter body packed more densely with life. You may call this the astral body following some other teachings.

[Siren]

N: May I ask if the inner planes are those of the astral or ethereal planes or the subcrust areas?

I am Latwii, and am aware of your query, my brother. It is the former portion of your query, that is, as you have called them, the astral and devachanic planes that we choose to inhabit. We choose more specifically to inhabit those planes that are, shall we say, somewhat removed from the astral planes and are of the devachanic or etheric description, depending upon the terms which you might choose.

Semantics.

[zenmaster]

Folks, there is no direct experience of the 4th dimension (be it "outer" or "inner") within a 3rd density inner plane such as the "astral". Even to the most advanced 3D "adept", it may be only expressed as shadows on a wall. 4D as "astral" is only a quite distant harmonic tuned in resonance with whatever inner work has been done. Very simply, the mind, being primary to all experience, must be "vibrating" at the same level (or higher) of the vibration of a density in order to have direct experience of the density (and even then there is movement up its subdensities involving millions of years).

[Fastidious Emanations]

Folks, there is no direct experience of the 4th dimension (be it "outer" or "inner") within a 3rd density inner plane such as the "astral". Even to the most advanced 3D "adept", it may be only expressed as shadows on a wall. 4D as "astral" is only a quite distant harmonic tuned in resonance with whatever inner work has been done. Very simply, the mind, being primary to all experience, must be "vibrating" at the same level (or higher) of the vibration of a density in order to have direct experience of the density (and even then there is movement up its subdensities involving millions of years).

But 4D experience is possible for this spirit given the correct mind/body 'circutry' and let's say some ability/faith comparable to that of Carla whom actually departs from her mind/body complex in order to 'rest' with those of (Ra complex?) in a sort of transfer of states. Whether these memories are able to etch into the 3D memory is improbable.

[zenmaster]

Folks, there is no direct experience of the 4th dimension (be it "outer" or "inner") within a 3rd density inner plane such as the "astral". Even to the most advanced 3D "adept", it may be only expressed as shadows on a wall. 4D as "astral" is only a quite distant harmonic tuned in resonance with whatever inner work has been done. Very simply, the mind, being primary to all experience, must be "vibrating" at the same level (or higher) of the vibration of a density in order to have direct experience of the density (and even then there is movement up its subdensities involving millions of years).

But 4D experience is possible for this spirit given the correct mind/body 'circutry' and let's say some ability/faith comparable to that of Carla whom actually departs from her mind/body complex in order to 'rest' with those of (Ra complex?) in a sort of transfer of states. Whether these memories are able to etch into the 3D memory is improbable.

The spirit does not create experience, that's what the mind and body are used for - to create experience.

[Patrick]

The spirit does not create experience, that's what the mind and body are used for - to create experience.

Would you say that there is only One spirit ?

[zenmaster]

The spirit does not create experience, that's what the mind and body are used for - to create experience.

Would you say that there is only One spirit ?

In infinity.

[Fastidious Emanations]

could you explain how you think this dual activation phenomena might be possible?
I mean besides the obvious Unity of Everything.
I am certain I've experienced 4D in very strict circumstances.

[Sagittarius]

41.16 Questioner: And then what entity would be the simplest that would have red, orange, yellow, and green activation?
Ra: I am Ra. This information has been covered in a previous session. To perhaps simplify your asking, each center may be seen to be activated potentially in third density, the late second-density entities having the capability, if efficient use is made of experience, of vibrating and activating the green-ray energy center.

The third-density being, having the potential for complete self-awareness, thus has the potential for the minimal activation of all energy centers. The fourth, fifth, and sixth densities are those refining the higher energy centers. The seventh density is a density of completion and the turning towards timelessness or foreverness.

63.14 Questioner: You are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

We may respond to the heart of your questioning by noting that the purpose of such combined activation of mind/body/spirit complexes is that such entities, to some extent, consciously are aware of those fourth-density understandings which third density is unable to remember due to the forgetting. Thus fourth-density experience may be begun with the added attraction, to an entity oriented towards service to others, of dwelling in a troubled third-density environment and offering its love and compassion.

You have the possibility of becoming fully aware within the 3rd density body, this doesn't require current direct experience of the higher bodies, certain thoughts/feelings are the higher bodies being "refined" even if they are vague coming through this apparatus. Dual bodied is one who can begin to walk the talk of 4th density work.