Hatonn Wrote:H: I have a question. I keep reading in the literature—metaphysical literature, psychic literature—that there are seven levels, seven states of consciousness, seven heavens, or something of this sort. Is this a valid concept?

We are aware of the question. I am Hatonn. You are no doubt familiar with the concept of quantum mechanics and also with the octave which you may find on any piano.

There are in a major scale, as this instrument would put it, seven different notes, having a relationship to each other which is pleasant. And then there is an octave. In that octave there is an identity—top note with bottom and the tonality begins again. Thus it is with quanta, where you have just so much occurring within a quantum; and then there is a leap, shall we say, to another set of configurations.

There has often been in your culture the term “seventh heaven” heard, and it is only one of many popular beliefs that there is not only a heaven but that there are various heavens for those who have done various things,

Your rather primitive Christian dogma would limit one’s heavens to two—one good and one bad—with a rather neutral zone in between for those who have not yet decided whether to be bad or good. This is not accurate.

Quote:There are, indeed, seven levels within the realm within the next dimension or quantum—from you. This plane has been called by Theosophists the astral plane.

Quote:Beyond that quantum there is a further octave of seven, and that plane is sometimes called the devachanic. Beyond that plane there is another octave of seven, which is sometimes called spiritual by your people. Beyond that plane few among your peoples who are incarnate upon your planet have traveled.

Quote:There are an infinite number of octaves in the heavenly music. The number seven, however, is the number of completeness, for that is, shall we say, the scale of vibrations within each quantum.

Does this answer your question, my brother?

Quote:H: Yes, thank you—except I would like to know now in which octave or in which level of an octave are you?

Well, we are speaking only for ourselves, for we are only one of over 500 civilizations which take part in this operation concerning planet Earth, the planet of sadness, at this time.

Quote:We, ourselves, vibrate within the fifth octave. You vibrate within the third. There are many in the Confederation which vibrate in the sixth, and some in the fourth. We have three among our number who, though vibrating in the third dimension, have done so in such harmony that they are able to aid us in spite of the gross physical illusion that they are experiencing and are able to aid us by thought. So you see, my friends, your condition is not hopeless. Your bodies do not pin you down as specimens pinned under a glass table. It is your minds that imprison you by accepting the illusion. We ask you, therefore, to open your minds to the freedom of realizing that there are infinite illusions and that your imagination has the freedom and the right to play among them as at will.

Quote:well, this at least clarifies some of the terminology used for me. I was undecided as to whether the astral referred to inner planes 3d, or if it was a different density.

Quote:the octave directly above you is the fourth and is called by the one whom you call Paul, the apostle, the spiritual kingdom

(10-17-2013, 12:17 PM)plenum Wrote:

Quote:There are, indeed, seven levels within the realm within the next dimension or quantum—from you. This plane has been called by Theosophists the astral plane.

Hatonn here is saying that 4th density correlates to the Astral Plane.

(10-17-2013, 12:17 PM)plenum Wrote: well, this at least clarifies some of the terminology used for me. I was undecided as to whether the astral referred to inner planes 3d, or if it was a different density.

(10-17-2013, 01:02 PM)anagogy Wrote: From Ra, we know that 4th density has a physical component, and a nonphysical component. I would lean towards calling the nonphysical component of this plane "the higher astral". But then, I would also call the nonphysical portions of 2nd density, and 3rd density "astral" as well (2nd being "lower astral", and 3rd being "middle astral").

So if I may ask, Plenum, what would you call the inner planes of 2nd and 3rd density?

I look forward to your response.

(10-17-2013, 04:05 PM)plenum Wrote: and as others have said - the specific words are not important in and of themselves; it is more the mental mapping that we have associated with those words that leads to greater precision or looseness of thinking.

(10-17-2013, 04:20 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(10-17-2013, 04:05 PM)plenum Wrote: and as others have said - the specific words are not important in and of themselves; it is more the mental mapping that we have associated with those words that leads to greater precision or looseness of thinking.

I agree completely, which why I find the session with Hatonn interesting as they make no mention whatsoever of the distinction between inner planes and outer planes with regards to 4th density. Some mind candy to ponder I suppose.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. Entities inhabit the various planes due to their vibrational nature. The astral plane varies from thought-forms in the lower extremities to enlightened beings who become dedicated to teach/learning in the higher astral planes.

(10-17-2013, 05:07 PM)Ashim Wrote: Ra seems to say that the astral comprises of 3rd and 4th density time/space which would make sense as earth is in 4th density space/time continuum. So technically 4th density time/space belongs to earths inner planes.

(10-17-2013, 05:07 PM)Ashim Wrote: There was also something about 4th density earth becoming populated albeit sparsely. Can't find that quote though.

(10-17-2013, 05:07 PM)Ashim Wrote: The term 'inner planes' also causes some confusion.
I think it may refer to both time/space and to space/time, the physical hollow earth inhabitants belonging to the latter.
What is an inner plane of a hollow sphere?

(10-17-2013, 05:33 PM)primordial abyss Wrote: the earth is not a sphere, it is based on a platonic solid, I think dodecahedron or icosahedron, forget I.

Quote:They were referring to dual activated 3rd/4th beings when they were talking about it being populated.

Quote:60.23 Questioner: And there are no— are there any inner civilizations or entities living in these areas that are some of the other than physically incarnate who do come and materialize on the Earth’s surface at times?

Ra: I am Ra. As we have noted, there are some which do as you say. Further, there are some inner plane entities of this planet which prefer to do some materialization into third-density visible in these areas. There are also bases, shall we say, in these areas of those from elsewhere, both positive and negative. There are abandoned cities.

(10-17-2013, 05:48 PM)Ashim Wrote: Yes, but those not in incarnation will also be included in the harvest and that is now.

(10-17-2013, 05:55 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(10-17-2013, 05:48 PM)Ashim Wrote: Yes, but those not in incarnation will also be included in the harvest and that is now.

Actually, they never say "also". They just say, "Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest."

Please note that they never say that those who *are* in incarnation will be included in the harvest. Harvest is a time/space event that occurs upon cessation of incarnation in the outer planes.

Quote:Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

(10-17-2013, 06:25 PM)Ashim Wrote: Good point.
Makes me really think that we are ascending in the physical.
No harvest.

(10-17-2013, 06:25 PM)Ashim Wrote: Good point.
Makes me really think that we are ascending in the physical.
No harvest.
If the planet does not require the cosmic 'clean up' there would be no need to leave physicality.
If the core vibration of the photon increases to 4th density then we hitch a ride and transmute from the 666 carbon template up to silica without the time/space harvest.
We walk the steps of light in physical bodies.
Nibiru has passed this time without any major disruptions to the planetary body - earths positive polarity 'deflected' her approach.
Very negative planet, ie Maldek, gets detroyed, Nibiru makes a close pass.
Mars got the 'cosmic wash' from an asteroid from the Nibiru system, the crossing being slightly more distant.
Earth ascends at the end of the 26.000 year cycle without hitting the 'reset' button.
Could it really be that Ra just saw the harvest as being very probable/possible and that we have tipped the balance?

(10-17-2013, 06:46 PM)anagogy Wrote: The physicality we are familiar with now does not "ascend", rather it manifests a higher dimensional layer.

(10-17-2013, 08:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: It does not. 4th-density peoples have an option of veiling themselves from others through a different space/time. Other than that, no, this universe is not spawning new space/times automatically for evolving life.

(10-17-2013, 08:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: Densities are not dimensions. They are classifications of life.

(10-17-2013, 08:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: Hatton only speaks of vibrations and time/space planes. Space/time is a different beast.

(10-17-2013, 08:32 PM)Adonai One Wrote: I can only assume when these entities say things such as the "sixth-dimension" they are referring to the phenomenon that happens when all of space and time unifies in the perception of such beings.

(10-17-2013, 12:17 PM)plenum Wrote: well, this at least clarifies some of the terminology used for me. I was undecided as to whether the astral referred to inner planes 3d, or if it was a different density.

(10-17-2013, 12:53 PM)Ashim Wrote: I think when the term 'astral' is used that it refers to the distorted 3rd density time/space of our sphere.
It may be possible to work up into 4th density time/space through the astral if one can disable the 'booby traps', but I've always seen it as the time/space analogue of the 3d octave.

47.8 Ra Wrote:The green-ray body is that body which may be seen in séance when what you call ectoplasm is furnished. This is a lighter body packed more densely with life. You may call this the astral body following some other teachings.

Quote:N: May I ask if the inner planes are those of the astral or ethereal planes or the subcrust areas?

I am Latwii, and am aware of your query, my brother. It is the former portion of your query, that is, as you have called them, the astral and devachanic planes that we choose to inhabit. We choose more specifically to inhabit those planes that are, shall we say, somewhat removed from the astral planes and are of the devachanic or etheric description, depending upon the terms which you might choose.

(11-18-2013, 01:10 AM)zenmaster Wrote: Folks, there is no direct experience of the 4th dimension (be it "outer" or "inner") within a 3rd density inner plane such as the "astral". Even to the most advanced 3D "adept", it may be only expressed as shadows on a wall. 4D as "astral" is only a quite distant harmonic tuned in resonance with whatever inner work has been done. Very simply, the mind, being primary to all experience, must be "vibrating" at the same level (or higher) of the vibration of a density in order to have direct experience of the density (and even then there is movement up its subdensities involving millions of years).

(11-18-2013, 12:22 PM)primordial abyss Wrote:

(11-18-2013, 01:10 AM)zenmaster Wrote: Folks, there is no direct experience of the 4th dimension (be it "outer" or "inner") within a 3rd density inner plane such as the "astral". Even to the most advanced 3D "adept", it may be only expressed as shadows on a wall. 4D as "astral" is only a quite distant harmonic tuned in resonance with whatever inner work has been done. Very simply, the mind, being primary to all experience, must be "vibrating" at the same level (or higher) of the vibration of a density in order to have direct experience of the density (and even then there is movement up its subdensities involving millions of years).

But 4D experience is possible for this spirit given the correct mind/body 'circutry' and let's say some ability/faith comparable to that of Carla whom actually departs from her mind/body complex in order to 'rest' with those of (Ra complex?) in a sort of transfer of states. Whether these memories are able to etch into the 3D memory is improbable.

(11-18-2013, 10:29 PM)zenmaster Wrote: The spirit does not create experience, that's what the mind and body are used for - to create experience.

(11-18-2013, 11:00 PM)Patrick Wrote:

(11-18-2013, 10:29 PM)zenmaster Wrote: The spirit does not create experience, that's what the mind and body are used for - to create experience.

Would you say that there is only One spirit ?

Quote:41.16 Questioner: And then what entity would be the simplest that would have red, orange, yellow, and green activation?
Ra: I am Ra. This information has been covered in a previous session. To perhaps simplify your asking, each center may be seen to be activated potentially in third density, the late second-density entities having the capability, if efficient use is made of experience, of vibrating and activating the green-ray energy center.

The third-density being, having the potential for complete self-awareness, thus has the potential for the minimal activation of all energy centers. The fourth, fifth, and sixth densities are those refining the higher energy centers. The seventh density is a density of completion and the turning towards timelessness or foreverness.

Quote:63.14 Questioner: You are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

We may respond to the heart of your questioning by noting that the purpose of such combined activation of mind/body/spirit complexes is that such entities, to some extent, consciously are aware of those fourth-density understandings which third density is unable to remember due to the forgetting. Thus fourth-density experience may be begun with the added attraction, to an entity oriented towards service to others, of dwelling in a troubled third-density environment and offering its love and compassion.