David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest

[Tenet Nosce]

I never understand the vitriol and hatred David receives for purely sharing his work. Boggles my mind.

Yes, I know what you mean. Somewhat ironically- if this is how the "lightworkers" of society behave toward one of their own, how does that bode for the population at large to behave toward ETs if they were to make themselves known?

Also, I think a fair observation can be made that the "vitriol and hatred" is a reflection of how far he strayed from his actual work regarding the source field to focus on the "Illuminati", "Disclosure", "Financial Collapse", "Insider Testimony", etc. IMO- that was a very successful attempt to steer him- and a wide swath of his following- off course.

Another consideration is the degree to which he has been misrepresenting the Ra Material.

---

I'm not sure how looking like someone could mean you had been that person in past life. Seems like people claim to 'know,' and then tell us that the proof is not accessible to anybody but themselves.

There is one past life of which I am fairly certain- though in order to get the "proof" I would have to go to Paris and speak with some people at the Louis Vuitton.

But I don't think I bear much physical resemblance to the person.

[Plenum]

Another consideration is the degree to which he has been misrepresenting the Ra Material.

please ... do go on!!

I know he lived with Carla and Jim for a number of years.

there are even some channeling sessions with him in the L/L Research archives.

[Tenet Nosce]

.......

---

Another consideration is the degree to which he has been misrepresenting the Ra Material.

please ... do go on!!

I know he lived with Carla and Jim for a number of years.

there are even some channeling sessions with him in the L/L Research archives.

For starters, there is no such term as "ascension" in the Ra Material. And of course, whatever ascension is, it did not happen in the year 2000 as was predicted.

There's a very interesting old post of his that discusses some of that other stuff... I will see if I can dig it up.

Here it is... I remembered that I had found it on a Google search for "don elkins suicide". Incidentally, that is the same search where I came across the DW as Rasputin article.

http://divinecosmos.com/forums/archive/i...-8398.html

any researcher trying to draw comparisons between my life and those of the Law of One team, be advised... i was the first person to live in don elkins' room after he committed suicide, nearly 20 years later. i pick up all the energies off of the areas i sleep in whether i want to or not. i slept on the "ra bed" that the original Law of One readings were done off of for the first month i was there. all the frozen suicide thoughtforms in don's room greeted me very strongly - the second or third night i slept in there i had a terrifying dream where gov. spooks shot my head off and i was in my astral body, trying to move my arms to feel if i still had a head. i didn't even take don's original decorations off the wall and repaint to claim the room as my own until a month into the process.

in previous iterations of this asc2k group, a member who has since left tried to assert that whatever has happened in my life is not even in the same category as the "negative greeting" experienced by the Law of One team - as if they had some mythological 5d thing happening that has ever been my problem. i beg to differ. short of someone actually dying, everything that was written about has happened. ra said flat-out that the ultimate goal of the negatives for Carla would be to get her to step out into traffic and be hit - and a week after disclosure project, my companion at the time did step out into traffic and was hit. she came very close to death in the aftermath and it was gripping for the first 4 weeks. i soon ended up with a very violent injury of my own, leaving me with a cast on my arm for months.

considering what i've lived through, considering the stakes that there are, (none of which were put in the reincarnation book because it was too depressing, frankly,) i want to again use this opportunity to point out how all it takes is a slight weakness in someone's mind - the seed of separation- to create a negative greeting. there are many potential avenues due to the size of population. we had some workers on my apartment building for the last two weeks and somehow they managed to wake me up every single morning. i'm finally sleeping now only because tey finished and it is luxury beyond imagination.

almost every single one of you reading this will never have to experience anything even close to what i go through - simply because of the level of responsibility i have as arguably one of the main figures in et-human relations throughout our history since atlantis, if you buy the cayce connection. when i am told to decrease or eliminate my frequency of masturbation, or have an austere diet, or walk 7 miles whenever i feel up to it (did it yesterday and today), or fastidiously record my dreams every day for 14 years, or remain absolutely drug and alcohol free for 14 years, or get chiropractic adjustments twice a week, all these are unusual things for an unusual mission.

[Monica]

This person uses a similar logic to make the case that DW is the reincarnation of Rasputin.

That came up before (forgot which thread) and I looked into it at the time, and concluded he had no case. I don't remember the details, but I remember his whole premise seemed very shaky and even hokey.

But that's not to say I think he is any more reliable a source... lower in the article he refers to the "The Demonic Channeled Messages of Ra."

Ah, there ya go! I tend to rule it out when they start using words like satanic and demonic. That sounds very fundamentalist religious, and they think everything from acupuncture to vegetarianism is demonic!

[Tenet Nosce]

That came up before (forgot which thread) and I looked into it at the time, and concluded he had no case. I don't remember the details, but I remember his whole premise seemed very shaky and even hokey.

That might have been me. I actually had a "preliminary reading" done by this guy. He wanted a bunch of pictures of my friends and family, but I only sent him a few of myself. He came back with a picture of a previous King of England. Mind you, I had to reverse search the image myself because he wasn't forthcoming about who it was. I have to say- this particular person does look like me, and I even found a picture of him with another guy that is a dead ringer for one of my relatives by marriage.

But I couldn't have been the King of England if I was who I think I was during that time period.

Ah, there ya go! I tend to rule it out when they start using words like satanic and demonic. That sounds very fundamentalist religious, and they think everything from acupuncture to vegetarianism is demonic!

That's true! Although if this guy believes in reincarnation, I guess he is not of the Abrahamic ilk.

[caycegal]

My current intention/attitude with regard to David W. is I give him as much credence as I give to any of you in terms of the ideas he expresses, although I'm not thinking of him as EC, and I don't really know what he could do to make me look at him that way. You don't have to be EC to have a good idea, though.

[Monica]

He came back with a picture of a previous King of England.

Aha! so that's where I know you from!

Mind you, I had to reverse search the image myself because he wasn't forthcoming about who it was. I have to say- this particular person does look like me, and I even found a picture of him with another guy that is a dead ringer for one of my relatives by marriage.

Please don't keep us in suspense! Would you be willing to tell us which king? (Just curious.)

But I couldn't have been the King of England if I was who I think I was during that time period.

Unless you're off by a few decades, maybe? Or, maybe a parallel life?

That's true! Although if this guy believes in reincarnation, I guess he is not of the Abrahamic ilk.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Hmmm...oh, got it! Remember, many 'New Agers' and even channels still carry a lot of religious baggage!

---

I never understand the vitriol and hatred David receives for purely sharing his work. Boggles my mind.

Anyone spewing hatred and vitriol needs to look in the mirror.

There is a rather lengthy thread here at B4, about DW. It's entitled simply David Wilcock, if I remember correctly. It's been inactive for awhile but a quick search of the sub-forums will yield much.

[Parsons]

Another consideration is the degree to which he has been misrepresenting the Ra Material.

I hate to point this out, but from my standpoint, your understanding/'misrepresentation' of the Ra Material has a similar distortion level as DW's(although the distortions are clearly different). So from my perspective, you are the pot calling the kettle black. I am not professing greater understanding here because someone with a different perspective might find my views equally distorted.

[reeay]

Everybody has own distortions in understanding the Ra material.

It's so great to be able to present one's own idea and debate/dialogue around it (thank you L/L). It increases all our learning, even tho we do not agree all the time.

DW should be participating here. He needs people to challenge him, not follow him.

[Patrick]

...I know he lived with Carla and Jim for a number of years.

there are even some channeling sessions with him in the L/L Research archives.

Humm, that's interesting. I didn't know that.

[Tenet Nosce]

DW should be participating here. He needs people to challenge him, not follow him.

Personally, I think he would enjoy the challenge. I don't think he knew what he was getting himself into with having followers. Actually, I am grateful for having the opportunity to watch what happens when one acquires followers, so that I don't have to deal with that particular catalyst myself.

---

Another consideration is the degree to which he has been misrepresenting the Ra Material.

I hate to point this out, but from my standpoint, your understanding/'misrepresentation' of the Ra Material has a similar distortion level as DW's(although the distortions are clearly different). So from my perspective, you are the pot calling the kettle black. I am not professing greater understanding here because someone with a different perspective might find my views equally distorted.

Yes. But the primary difference being that I don't have any sort of "following" that I am aware of.

Also, where you feel my interpretation is distorted there are actual quotes to back up those distortions. We just have different interpretations of those quotes.

In the case of DW, he has made certain claims about things in the material that just aren't in the material... according to any interpretation. In particular: ascension. But there are many others.

111 Thread Redirect --> David Wilcock illuminati?

[Oceania]

he probably would/does participate if he had time or if it didn't cause a stir. like or hate, when you're a celebrity or sorts, you can't be one of the crowd. it's why the royalty used to disguise themselves when they wanted to mingle with the people.

[Phoenix]

In trying to find a quote for this post I stumbled upon this article about the sameness of astrology between EC and DW

http://divinecosmos.com/component/content/35?task=view

I didn't get Tenet Nosce's point about how talking about Don Elkins suicide is misrepresenting the Ra material. However, I did like the fact that he quoted something interesting that DW said that I wouldn't have thought to look for myself.

I had an idea about this harvest thing a while back, coming from a dream, and it seems to answer all the ends for me. So here it is:

Both David Wilcocks 'insiders' and the Ra material agree on the point that when you reach 4th density, that you can't gain polarity anymore. David Wilcock describes it more as you can't 'move forward' I think he said, and he was talking about 2012 and alien contact.

This happens to my understanding because, people often use as excuses to not behave properly/ nicely ideas based entirely on ignorance, but if telepathy were common place then that would not be an option.

So, in the next few years, say a) some of these bastards messing everything up go to jail, b) true sciences come out and understood, people become slowly aware of spiritual selves c) this escalates to where more and more feelings and thoughts are seen.

Of course that is massively simplified. But once we get to that point, if the harvest/ ascension were to happen then, there would be no complaint, no shock. People who were 3D would know they needed work done. People who were 4D or above would understand how it all has to be.

Also, better food and an ongoing peace and harmony feeling would stop violence etc. and paranoia.

[Tenet Nosce]

he probably would/does participate if he had time or if it didn't cause a stir. like or hate, when you're a celebrity or sorts, you can't be one of the crowd. it's why the royalty used to disguise themselves when they wanted to mingle with the people.

I think the cosmic joke is that any person would become a "celebrity of sorts" around the Law of One.

But yes, I think you're right. And there are other dynamics around being a celebrity which come into play as well- for example having to pander to the fans. Because, as we all know, the biggest fans can turn into the biggest haters on a dime if they decide that they aren't getting what they need/want/think they deserve from their latest celebrity obsession.

Kind of like when a band has to keep playing all of their old s*** on stage because any time they try something new their "fan base" gets pissy about it.

In the case of DW- his mission (according to him) is about documenting where scientific investigation supports the Law of One, and other related concepts as presented in the Ra Material.

On the other hand, his followers- at least the most vocal ones- tend to go... Law of One? Yup, we're all one. We already know that.

NOW TELL US ABOUT THE ALIENS AND THE ILLUMINATI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All the while forgetting that, according to the Law of One, we ARE the both the aliens and the Illuminati. This is, of course, why Ra referred to this type of information as transitory and unimportant.

Anyway, I was happy to hear that when he finally stepped away from the throngs long enough to take a rest, that his guidance was able to kick in and set him back on course. And I actually SAID this over a year ago:

I have a feeling that if he would disconnect himself from a near constant barrage of "insider" information that he is being fed, he would perhaps recall a few important things that he has forgotten:

I still don't wish any ill upon the man- every work doesn't need to be a masterpiece to make it worthwhile.

I was previously just speculating as to what may have attracted that level of "hatred and vitriol" into his experience. Put it this way- I think if he would have stayed truer to the material he wouldn't have attracted so many nutjob followers. But that's just my opinion; I've only spoken to the dude twice so I don't actually know him or what is going on in his mind.

---

I didn't get Tenet Nosce's point about how talking about Don Elkins suicide is misrepresenting the Ra material.

That wasn't the point, which is probably why it didn't make any sense!

Where I think he has misrepresented the material is discussed here:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...3#pid54953

I only was mentioning that I had found that post I quoted while doing a Google search for "Don Elkins suicide". This is, of course, because he talks about it in the post. But that was all in relation to plenum's question about the relationship between DW and L/L.

[reeay]

In trying to find a quote for this post I stumbled upon this article about the sameness of astrology between EC and DW

http://divinecosmos.com/component/content/35?task=view

They do seem similar by the looks of it. Yet they are vastly different when they are analyzed. Here's why:

Firstly, the outer planets are different because they were born in different times (Cayce 1800s, DW 1900s). The inner planets are similar but in different degrees and sometimes different signs. Secondly, even when they both have similar planets-in-signs (e.g. sun in Pisces or Venus in Aquarius or Mars in Sag etc.), the degrees are different. That means how these planets interact with other planets is different (aspects).

What makes a chart unique is the relationship between planets (aspects), not what sign the planet is in or the house it is in. Also, it's the overall picture of the chart that matters, not the parts. The 2 charts are not similar on both points. A person born on the same date, time, and around the general geographical area as DW would have more similarities with DW's chart, than DW's with Cayce's.

This is another case of priming - you present the case as - look this looks similar - and people will look for similarities instead of differences or uniqueness... and support the conclusion of the person priming us.

The fact of the matter is that if I were to interpret both charts, I would come up with a vastly different description.

Both David Wilcocks 'insiders' and the Ra material agree on the point that when you reach 4th density, that you can't gain polarity anymore. David Wilcock describes it more as you can't 'move forward' I think he said, and he was talking about 2012 and alien contact.

Maybe they read Ra and Qu'o transcripts. Lots of new age 'channelers' and researchers do.

[Cyan]

I like it how people are so quick to add what you "cant" do in a density they categorically "cant" understand anything about yet.

It cracks me up.

[reeay]

Personally, I think he would enjoy the challenge. I don't think he knew what he was getting himself into with having followers. Actually, I am grateful for having the opportunity to watch what happens when one acquires followers, so that I don't have to deal with that particular catalyst myself.

And the people on this forum are nice enough to challenge and point things out if such thing should happen. This is a good place to balance! I like Krishnamurti's approach... don't listen to me, listen to yourself! I'm just helping you to think things through!


OCEANIA: do you think he's participating on this forum?

[Tenet Nosce]

In trying to find a quote for this post I stumbled upon this article about the sameness of astrology between EC and DW

http://divinecosmos.com/component/content/35?task=view

What rie said.

My chart interpretation is very rusty.

Firstly, I am going to ignore Chiron and the Node because I don't know enough about them to make them relevant.

Next, I would look at the distribution of the sun, moon, and planets.

Cayce's chart has everything, except Uranus, in a single hemisphere as defined by the Gemini/Sagittarius pole.

David's chart- quite to the contrary- has everything spread out over ten signs, with pretty much one planet in every sign.

That they were born around the same time of year is as about as significant of proof of a reincarnation as any other two Pisceans.

[Cyan]

I'm so fraking surprised how central to "the world" this forum is right now actually and would not be surprised if most people here are some really super famous person in disguise

Think about it. 2012 culture was literally spawned in the hippie movement, of which the LL group is probably the most central, of which this forum is the most central. If you think about it from a historical (what started what) and not a actual (what is the result of the what that started the what).

From that perspective this forum is the very heart of this eras transition. IT is like sitting in popes chamber with a bong and a bag of chips during the 1999 to 2000 transition.

You guys have any idea how awesome i think this is.

[Tenet Nosce]

I like it how people are so quick to add what you "cant" do in a density they categorically "cant" understand anything about yet.

Will you give an example?

[caycegal]

I'm so fraking surprised how central to "the world" this forum is right now actually and would not be surprised if most people here are some really super famous person in disguise

Think about it. 2012 culture was literally spawned in the hippie movement, of which the LL group is probably the most central, of which this forum is the most central. If you think about it from a historical (what started what) and not a actual (what is the result of the what that started the what).

From that perspective this forum is the very heart of this eras transition. IT is like sitting in popes chamber with a bong and a bag of chips during the 1999 to 2000 transition.

You guys have any idea how awesome i think this is.

Reminds me of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: the President of the Galaxy was actually some unknown guy living on some unknown planet all by himself. Other people had the Prestige, the Show, the Popularity, the appearance of power and importance. This unknown guy was quietly making the decisions.

I want to be like that unknown man, quietly using the gifts God gives me to create the best reality I know how, and enjoying the heck out of it.

[reeay]

The North Node is critical - that's where we understand our 'spiritual mission' or purpose. And another important thing conventional astrologers forget - to see the sacred geometry that is created by the relationships between planets. This sacred geometry define very pronounced possibilities in our lives.

DW's North Node is in Capricorn
Cayce's in Pisces

But even if DW were EC's incarnation, I don't see why they would incarnate with the same mission. This info is interesting in the light of DW's challenges and mission. NN in Capricorn means he's trying to move away from being the caring and loving person, who worries about people and gets carried away by more emotional tones... he's moving into being more Saturnian. Disciplined, responsible, teacher etc. He's going from mother to father type archetype. Oh gosh now I feel like analyzing something lol

[Tenet Nosce]

Also, better food and an ongoing peace and harmony feeling would stop violence etc. and paranoia.

That's true. Yet still some of us truly believe that violence is an appropriate way to "settle" a conflict. And some of us are, on top of being violent, are also crazy.

[Cyan]

I like it how people are so quick to add what you "cant" do in a density they categorically "cant" understand anything about yet.

Will you give an example?

Both David Wilcocks 'insiders' and the Ra material agree on the point that when you reach 4th density, that you can't gain polarity anymore.

*bows out with a puff of smoke by his own proven logical illogically logically logical logic.*

[Tenet Nosce]

The North Node is critical - that's where we understand our 'spiritual mission' or purpose.

Well I guess it would be highly relevant! But then comparing the two is irrelevant to a case for reincarnation. They could progress in any order.

Actually, now that I think about it- wouldn't it actually be more unusual to take two consecutive incarnations in the same sun sign?

Also, in beginning with the written interpretation I see this:

First of all, what leaps out at the astrologer is the fact that all five personal planets are in the same signs in both charts.

Um...? No, this does not leap out at all. This person is actually an astrologer?

The chances of two people having the sun within 5 degrees of each other is (if I'm not mistaken) 1 in 32.

The chances of two people having the moon within 1 degree of each other is roughly 1 in 28.

Therefore the chances of these both occurring together is 1 in 896. Hardly a, "remarkable sameness...beyond all chance or 'coincidence'."

I am not the mathematician I would like to be

ROFL! Yeah, no s***!

[Oceania]

The North Node is critical - that's where we understand our 'spiritual mission' or purpose. And another important thing conventional astrologers forget - to see the sacred geometry that is created by the relationships between planets. This sacred geometry define very pronounced possibilities in our lives.

DW's North Node is in Capricorn
Cayce's in Pisces

But even if DW were EC's incarnation, I don't see why they would incarnate with the same mission. This info is interesting in the light of DW's challenges and mission. NN in Capricorn means he's trying to move away from being the caring and loving person, who worries about people and gets carried away by more emotional tones... he's moving into being more Saturnian. Disciplined, responsible, teacher etc. He's going from mother to father type archetype. Oh gosh now I feel like analyzing something lol

Edgar was kind to a fault. he abused his body by constantly helping people, i read that the guides told him to stop doing the readings but he kept going and i guess died because of it. he also became bitter because there was so much demand. in David's early life there's been struggle with learning to be assertive, take care of himself physically and spiritually, in the form of boundaries and treating himself as well as others. he struggled with his weight and health, as he had a poor diet like Cayce did, and had someone who took advantage of him. these he said were his lessons he hadn't learned. so eventually he learned to say no to the abuser in his life and learned eating well, gave up pot and alcohol. and became a teacher. interesting he's a pisces if he's moving away from emotional and caring. i mean he's very emotional and caring still, but at least he has more self respect and self caring now which is i think enough. and i think he worked too hard the past year or two but now he's letting up. maybe finally he'll stop the overworking.

[Spaced]

I'm so fraking surprised how central to "the world" this forum is right now actually and would not be surprised if most people here are some really super famous person in disguise

Think about it. 2012 culture was literally spawned in the hippie movement, of which the LL group is probably the most central, of which this forum is the most central. If you think about it from a historical (what started what) and not a actual (what is the result of the what that started the what).

From that perspective this forum is the very heart of this eras transition. IT is like sitting in popes chamber with a bong and a bag of chips during the 1999 to 2000 transition.

You guys have any idea how awesome i think this is.

I'm sure that entities all over creation are rooting for us.

[Tenet Nosce]

The most striking similarity is making a negative prophecy that didn't come to pass.

Of course the "explanation" given is always that the act of making the prediction impacted the group mind to such a profound degree that it actually altered the course of history so as to invalidate the prophecy. Kind of a circular reasoning there.

This is in contrast to those who make positive predictions for the future, and then they come true.

[Oceania]

Rie, no i don't. i think he's been too busy. but who knows. he might have more time now.

[reeay]

Well I guess it would be highly relevant! But then comparing the two is irrelevant to a case for reincarnation. They could progress in any order.

The South Node is the pattern of one's past life... DW's past life/South Node is in the sign of Cancer. But I dont think that means DW was Cancer in his past life, but the energy feels Cancerian. This is a consistant energy with EC's Sun in Pisces, but not the same at all. I'm not sure that in itself, the nodes of the moon show present/past life possibility.

Actually, now that I think about it- wouldn't it actually be more unusual to take two consecutive incarnations in the same sun sign?

Why not? This would be rather difficult to research unless past life birthdate were available... I still think the South Node (opposite of North Node) is the point to look at for past life.

Also, in beginning with the written interpretation I see this:

First of all, what leaps out at the astrologer is the fact that all five personal planets are in the same signs in both charts.

Um...? No, this does not leap out at all. This person is actually an astrologer?

The chances of two people having the sun within 5 degrees of each other is (if I'm not mistaken) 1 in 32.

The chances of two people having the moon within 1 degree of each other is roughly 1 in 28.

Therefore the chances of these both occurring together is 1 in 896. Hardly a, "remarkable sameness...beyond all chance or 'coincidence'."

I am not the mathematician I would like to be

ROFL! Yeah, no s***!

lol good points.

This reading was based on the assumption that indeed DW was incarnated as EC... and astrologer is doing synastry (relationship reading) to highlight DW's relationship to EC. Do you see the problem? This is not a reading to verify DW's incarnation as EC but to highlight their relationship to each other based on belief that DW was EC in past life.

Moon conjunct moon tells me nothing but that they probably understand each other emotionally. But that's not significant, as you say, it's 1 in 28.

I use 0-3 degree orbs. If the 4 planets were conjunct within 3 degrees and had similar aspects I'd say it's remarkably similar but nothing to do with 'past life' and 'current life.' This just seems like he's building up a case that he IS EC... why try so hard to establish self as EC?

I'm not attacking DW btw. I'm wondering why he keeps throwing things like this to the public, when most people do not really understand astrology and cannot critically examine whatever he's claiming?