Concerning the term 'Spiritual'

[Rake]

I went for a bike ride earlier and stopped on top of a hill. I sat down for a couple of minutes trying to silence the mind when i my thoughts wandered. I was thinking about the term 'Spiritual' or 'Spiritualism'. Having read Robert Monroe's books he avoids using such terms because of the stigma's attached to the words and I thought perhaps a better term to use would be 'Openness'. As I see the term explains the nature of spirituality and the opening of one's self to other selves.

I'm at a point where i must open myself up more so perhaps it is more of a realization for myself and not applicable for others.

[Philosoraptor]

[...]perhaps a better term to use would be 'Openness'. As I see the term explains the nature of spirituality and the opening of one's self to other selves.

Semantics. It's unlikely you'll find a definite definition/interpretation for the term "spiritual" as people have various mental/emotional/philosophical biases as to what "spiritual" entails. Consider the term "spirit." To some this is just a discarnate ghost floating around, to others this is "God," to Ra this is a shuttle to Intelligent Infinity.

You suggest "openness" (the opening of one's self to other-selves), yet to negative entities "spirituality" implies something very different.

Hence the conundrum.

Words, words, words. And more words.

The only way to bypass this language barrier is telepathy. In the meantime, it's all semantics.

[Melissa]

Telepathy would be awesome, nice and quiet too.

[Adonai One]

While the various idealists here will disagree with me, the spirit is just a concept derived from the combination of the mind and body. Even the afterlife will be navigated with a mind and body albeit made of light. The core concepts of our realities are not transcended with the spirit, in fact our reality is the spirit. In the end, it is simply a fancy term for life itself.

The mind and body which makes the spirit only ceases when this reality comes to a close as we unite with infinity. Even then nothing has been transcended for this universe is as valuable as the rest of creation.

[Philosoraptor]

While the various idealists here will disagree with me, the spirit is just a concept derived from the combination of the mind and body.

We're getting out of topic, but for what it's worth (and as always, my biased "opinions" may be absolutely worth-less! And that's OK): it is the understanding of Philisoraptor that mind, body, and spirit are simply energy matrices/complexes serving distinct functions and utilized by the individuated focus (i.e. thought) of consciousness/energy that is each entity to gather/accrue experience.

[Adonai One]

Nah, we're on topic. This topic is about the terms of "spiritualism" and "spirit". We've just branched off to where things would end up inevitably.

Anyways, you have summed it up well.

I just wish to make the distinction that the spirit is the mind/body. When a person "dies", the spirit doesn't leave the body it simply transforms to a new mind/body. The "dead" body made of denser material simply becomes lower-density life once more which is ironically still aliven by spirit.

The spirit never transcends anything. It is everything.

In thought of the OP, openness is a wise term in regards to the infinite life that is in all.

[xise]

While the various idealists here will disagree with me, the spirit is just a concept derived from the combination of the mind and body.

And yet, the deepest and more fruitful meditations involve silencing the mind, and silencing the sensations of the body. In essence, these meditations seek spirit, independent of mind and body.

[Adonai One]

While the various idealists here will disagree with me, the spirit is just a concept derived from the combination of the mind and body.

And yet, the deepest and more fruitful meditations involve silencing the mind, and silencing the sensations of the body. In essence, these meditations seek spirit, independent of mind and body.

I will contend that we do not truly silence our mind/body but rather unite with it in meditation. It is not culled and exiled but rather brought back into unity or infinity. Sensations and noise are simply "disharmony" within the mind/body. When we meditate, we bring them into balance and unite it with infinity. Although such is illusory: We just simply change our perception.

For what do we truly seek? When we delve into infinity, will we be independent of all things? No. We become all things, even minds and bodies. We become the dirt and the light.

Nothing shall be overcome even the mind and body for it is spirit.

[xise]

When we meditate, we bring them into balance and unite it with infinity. Although such is illusory: We just simply change our perception.

This. The perception of my spirit, my observer-consciousness changes little in my meditations where I may come close to experiencing unity, but my perception of my mind and body changes substantially.

The spirit seems to be relatively un-distortable, but the mind and body subject to imbalances and distortions. There is just something wholly different as to its nature.

The mind and body are not something to be overcome. But they seems to be tools of experiential learning. The spirit just seems "to be."

[Adonai One]

When we meditate, we bring them into balance and unite it with infinity. Although such is illusory: We just simply change our perception.

This. The perception of my spirit, my observer-consciousness changes little in my meditations where I may come close to experiencing unity, but my perception of my mind and body changes substantially.

The spirit seems to be relatively un-distortable, but the mind and body subject to imbalances and distortions. There is just something wholly different as to its nature.

The mind and body are not something to be overcome. But they seems to be tools of experiential learning. The spirit just seems "to be."

The key is from the perspective of infinity, perception is merely illusion. The "change" of perception is merely illusion.

Are not all things one, my friend? Does not that peace and tranquility include the distortion it manifests? Is not distortion within unity?

The distortions within the mind/body are without distortion. They are intended to be as they are. The perceivable imbalance is within balance.

There is nothing different about it for the whole purpose of the spirit is the existence of its parts that enable the concept of enlightenment in the first place. Else we would simply just be infinity.

Experential learning is an equally valuable component of infinity. It is not temporary. It is eternal when one becomes all things.

---

Nothing really changes at all is my main point. The archetypes that make the mind and body that enable the concept of spirit in this reality never disappear.

All we are doing is working through archetype 15.

[xise]

There are two discussions here to be had I think:

A) One is the nature of things in themselves - does mind, body, or even spirit truly exist, given the infinity of unity. I claim not to know the answer or even have knowledge on that. To be fair, I think your comment that I initially responded to may have been from this perspective.

B) The second is that whether these mind, body, spirit distinction serves use in self-evolution and whether they are tools or stumbling blocks in recognizing and eventually becoming a part of the unity that ties all things. I would say that in my experience, it is useful to examine and see the different concepts in these three things in our journey. Knowledge of unity is one thing, the experience of that unity is another. And I think the best method to experience that unity is to un-distort and balance oneself if one so desires, and for that purpose I think the mind/body/spirit concepts are immensely useful. This is the reason I believe that Ra studied the archetypes behind the mind, body and spirit, to seemingly great effect.

[Adonai One]

There are two discussions here to be had I think:

A) One is the nature of things in themselves - does mind, body, or even spirit truly exist, given the infinity of unity. I claim not to know the answer or even have knowledge on that. To be fair, I think your comment that I initially responded to may have been from this perspective.

It exists and it doesn't exist. The illusory aspect (Archetype 15) applies within this galaxy/octave but it does not veil the perspective of infinity. Thus it doesn't apply within the infinite totality and all octaves. It may not even apply across all galaxies.

B) The second is that whether these mind, body, spirit distinction serves use in self-evolution and whether they are tools or stumbling blocks in recognizing and eventually becoming a part of the unity that ties all things.

I would look as this creation, this galaxy as a play: You are the creator who has decided to veil yourself. This decision was made out of unity. The whole creation is within unity for it was worthy of the attention of infinity in the first place.

The mind/body/spirit is here because it's the nature of this creation which can be perceived as a test of self-evolution but that is not the only perception; It is not an objective perception. It's not the entire nor only meaning of the creation. The creation stands on its own from start to finish and in every infinite crevice in-between and in accordance to every perspective within infinity.

I would say that in my experience, it is useful to examine and see the different concepts in these three things in our journey. Knowledge of unity is one thing, the experience of that unity is another. And I think the best method to experience that unity is to un-distort and balance oneself if one so desires, and for that purpose I think the mind/body/spirit concepts are immensely useful. This is the reason I believe that Ra studied the archetypes behind the mind, body and spirit, to seemingly great effect.

The Experience of the Spirit will occur regardless of an entity's choices and pace: Catalyst will find you wherever you are in this galaxy. The only question is does the amount of time we spend in this creation really matter when compared to infinity?

Unity will be experienced and it will inevitably bring that knowledge. There's nothing that can stop it.

[xise]

I agree with basically what you are saying. Especially about we each are the Creator who chose the variables of this reality to experience infinity, and that in other octaves it could well be totally different.

Looking back over what I initially responded to, let me ask, when you say "the spirit is just a concept derived from the combination of the mind and body", from what perspective are you coming from when you say the concept of spirit is derived from the mind and the body? Did you mean to use the word derive? And if so, why?

The point may be semantical, or it may be significant, so I'm curious.

[Adonai One]

On the archetype map, we start out as freewill distorted from infinity that then becomes perception (archetype 1) and then form (archetype 8). Combined this makes the concept of illusion (archetype 15) or in other words, an illusory experience. All of these concepts form the matrixes of the mind/body/spirit totality. They define each other. They are united. Illusion doesn't transcend perception and form but is indeed a concept derived from the unity of these two things. However one can just as easily derive perception and form from illusion but that is not obvious nor clear at face value of the term.

Assuming perception/form and illusion can both mean the same thing at face value, they define each other and they can be derived from each other. They are equal. They are each other.

perception/form = illusion
perception/form = spirit
perception/form = mind/body
mind/body = illusion
mind/body = spirit
mind/body = perception/form

QED

[xise]

Is there a distinction to you between:

(1) the idea that the spirit itself is derived from the mind and body, and
(2) the idea that the archetypes of the spirit are derived from the archetypes of the mind and body?

Why or why not?

[Adonai One]

Is there a distinction to you between:

(1) the idea that the spirit itself is derived from the mind and body, and
(2) the the idea that the archetypes of the spirit are derived from the archetypes of the mind and body?

Why or why not?

Assuming the archetypes sufficiently quantify this reality, there should not be any distinction.

The concept of spirit only has relevance in realities such as this one.

[Unbound]

This thread makes me giggle hehe

[xise]

91.14 Questioner: Thank you. One more question before we start on the specific questions with respect to archetypes. Do all Logo[i] evolving after the veil have twenty-two archetypes?
Ra: I am Ra. No.

91.15 Questioner: Is it common for Logo[i] to have twenty-two archetypes or is this relatively unique with respect to our Logos?
Ra: I am Ra. The system of sevens is the most articulated system yet discovered by any experiment by any Logos in our octave.

91.16 Questioner: What is the largest number of archetypes, to Ra’s knowledge, used by a Logos?
Ra: I am Ra. The sevens plus The Choice is the greatest number which has been used, by our knowledge, by Logoi. It is the result of many, many previous experiments in articulation of the One Creator.

I always got the impression that the archetypal relationships were a step removed and somewhat interchangeable from the mind/body/spirit itself from the Ra readings concerning archetypes. I'm having trouble reconciling this impression with your statement about derivations, Adonai.

Edit: I suppose they are reconcilable if that for any given combination of archetypes that previous Logoi have explored, the smaller combinations could be derivable from one another.

[Philosoraptor]

does mind, body, or even spirit truly exist, given the infinity of unity

Aha!

[Adonai One]

91.14 Questioner: Thank you. One more question before we start on the specific questions with respect to archetypes. Do all Logo[i] evolving after the veil have twenty-two archetypes?
Ra: I am Ra. No.

91.15 Questioner: Is it common for Logo[i] to have twenty-two archetypes or is this relatively unique with respect to our Logos?
Ra: I am Ra. The system of sevens is the most articulated system yet discovered by any experiment by any Logos in our octave.

91.16 Questioner: What is the largest number of archetypes, to Ra’s knowledge, used by a Logos?
Ra: I am Ra. The sevens plus The Choice is the greatest number which has been used, by our knowledge, by Logoi. It is the result of many, many previous experiments in articulation of the One Creator.

I always got the impression that the archetypal relationships were a step removed and somewhat interchangeable from the mind/body/spirit itself from the Ra readings concerning archetypes. I'm having trouble reconciling this impression with your statement about derivations, Adonai.

Conversely, I have yet to see a reasonable explanation as to how anything within this reality can transcend it and its parts.

Anyways, these are wonderful discussions. Some of the best I've had on here so far.

---

This thread makes me giggle hehe

You are free to join in at any time.

[Unbound]

Leg bone's connected to the, hip bone...

[Adonai One]

Leg bone's connected to the, hip bone...

The fallacy here is that a skeleton is indeed more than bones. It is bones + concept that enables the bones to join together in the desired form..

However, a trinity such as mind/body/spirit needs no such conception. The mind and body inherently unite with nothing extraneous. The concept is built-in inherently.

[xise]

I'll have to collect more of my thoughts on the matter, but it feels like spirit/mind/body don't have to exist together necessarily. Just some random thoughts:

Mind/Body, no Spirit: Artificial Intelligence
Body/Spirit, no Mind: 1D Rock
Mind/Spirit, no Body: Entities caught in nuclear blasts for that instant (Maldek)

By no means is it conclusive that these exist in actuality, but my first impression is that it's possible...I can imagine them...and you know what Ra said about imagination!

[Unbound]

Oh yeah? Prove it aha

[Adonai One]

Oh yeah? Prove it aha

The Law of One: Intelligent infinity inherently resides in all things. Things can connect autonomously.

[Unbound]

So the connecting is nothing in itself?

[Adonai One]

I'll have to collect more of my thoughts on the matter, but it feels like spirit/mind/body don't have to exist together necessarily. Just some random thoughts:

Mind/Body, no Spirit: Artificial Intelligence
Body/Spirit, no Mind: 1D Rock
Mind/Spirit, no Body: Entities caught in nuclear blasts for that instant (Maldek)

By no means is it conclusive that these exist in actuality, but my first impression is that it's possible...I can imagine them...and you know what Ra said about imagination!

Anything below third-density is simply invocations by the archetypes of perception/form/illusion from the existing mind/body/spirit complexes.

I contend these things are spirit from the mind/bodies of all residing in the reality. The invocation of an additional mind/body/spirt is illusory as it alivens the matter that was already created by the mind.

---

So the connecting is nothing in itself?

It is the illusion itself. It's the whole point and function of the illusion.

---

What we consider reality is just thoughts. Reality is only our perception. Which makes it an illusion.

[Unbound]

This is not an illusion though, this is real. You think you are in an illusion, but you are in reality the illusion as well so before you can become REAL you must discover that which is not the illusion. However, the illusion extends in to all fields, but once again, we are also the illusion, and thus that which is not the illusion is the illusion itself and so reality is made real as an experience by this self-negating illusion, already having solved every paradox.

The illusion of the spirit is the mind interacting with the body. There is no mind or body, only spirit.

---

Well, the mind and body are, of course, real, as they are the illusion of the spirit, but they are still an illusion, a mirage made by infinite connectivity of points.

---

In fact, I might as well just go all the way and say that mind, body and spirit are all illusions arising from a Point.

[Adonai One]

This is not an illusion though, this is real. You think you are in an illusion, but you are in reality the illusion as well so before you can become REAL you must discover that which is not the illusion. However, the illusion extends in to all fields, but once again, we are also the illusion, and thus that which is not the illusion is the illusion itself and so reality is made real as an experience by this self-negating illusion, already having solved every paradox.

The illusion of the spirit is the mind interacting with the body. There is no mind or body, only spirit.

---

Well, the mind and body are, of course, real, as they are the illusion of the spirit, but they are still an illusion, a mirage made by infinite connectivity of points.

All is real because all is illusion. I am quite aware, my friend. I am not new to these concepts.

Anyways, I don't follow your logic at all. I don't follow you come to deny the existence of the components of the spirit, while saying the spirit still exists. You gentlemen want the spirit to be higher than its parts when it is one with them. This is like saying society is greater than its individuals. This is like saying only society exists and individuals don't.

To say the least, such philosophy disturbs me.

I am sure you are aware infinity does not transcend this reality/illusion either.

---

In fact, I might as well just go all the way and say that mind, body and spirit are all illusions arising from a Point.

Reality/Illusion = Mind/Body/Spirit = Archetypes

I am glad we can agree.

[Unbound]

Yes, that is what I am saying, and I do not mean it in any regard beyond my own personal choices of perception and biases of distortion. I have made choices in my life that have caused me to gain a view in which both individual and collective are united, but the whole point is to stop bickering about whether or not anything is better or worse and the way I see it, that can only happen from a collective attempt from many individuals. So, are many individuals better than one? Of course not.

However, two, or three, can accomplish what may be very difficult for one. It is not about any sort of superiority or negation of the individual and really I think that kind of perception can come from a very deep yellow ray blockage feeling of unworthiness and insignificance of the self. It is not about making anything more important than anything else, but the realization that there is a choice.

Will you choose your own, individual will over the will of the collective will? Will you live only to fulfill your fleshly desires and ignore the callings of sorrow from millions or billions? How can one live with themselves as an individual when the masses are suffering? I do not say this to you, I say this to all, I question this to all.

This world and the creatures on it are my children, our children, we created this beautiful garden, but how many think of the planet itself as being alive and conscious? How many know that the trees whisper and talk, and love? How many know that the rocks love to cuddle and that's why they squeeze so tight together?

This is magic, this is life, this is the spirit that enlivens everything, and is everything. The fact that a lead will one day be gold does not negate the experience and purpose of the lead, but in truth the lead only becomes gold because that is its deepest and most primal impulse, to transform and transcend. This is not done to avoid being lead, but to experience also the joys of being gold and every stage in between. You see, transcendence is actually just the mechanism of the evolution of the cosmic self. It is as natural of a process as a plant sprouting or an egg hatching.