forum shadow, love it or hate it?

[Oceania]

the mods refuse to release the thread i started because of fighting within it.

why is it so wrong for us to be human and make the occasional "error"? why not look at those moments with the lightness of the higher beings and the compassion and humor? or the curiosity of a chimp? or the neutrality of the aschen? our ancestors are aliens and chimps. lets act like them.

why is this board so afraid of those little moments and not able to let a thread stand? you can always lock it and let it be an example of our chimpish overlord behavior. i'm just wondering because i really don't understand it. so long as we fear our fight threads, so far as to hide them from sight, the longer they'll reign over us in repeat actions. because we'll not accept it and let it be without judgement.

i think there is a collective shadow here. and it's not being loved. as Ra says, there are no mistakes... well i disagree, but i think on a message board a loss of temper or the occasional smudging of rules is not a mistake, it's just a bump, a part of learning, a wart that needs acceptance, a pumpkin that needs the extra push to be a carriage.

sometimes the mods go too far in protecting rules as opposed to protecting the health of the community. rules are not an end to means, they're a means to an end. they should bend to the needs of people, not bend people. i don't think running away from looking at our little bumps is always healthy. people should be able to review their own posts if they wish, to learn from them. what does it really accomplish to shelve a thread because someone lost their cool in it? the value of the thread is not clear therefore it should not be assumed to be without any.

sometimes it seems like this place is a lot of 4D frosting, with buried darker feelings. the rules support such behavior because it gives a nice little environment where we can be lovey dovey. but i think ignoring the darker feelings isn't going to make them leave, i think just observing them without shame, forgiving them and accepting them is what will make them less prominent.

maybe noone gives a crumpet. this is just what i'm feeling.

i know the mods can say if you don't like it, leave. but why not have the discussion?

as i said before, which fell to deaf ears, i'm not suggesting cutting out rules all together. but rules should be questioned.

[xise]

I would totally in support of making an members only subforum, perhaps titled "Catalytic Discussion", and move all threads with significant fighting into there .

Leaving the threads in the other forums does tend to gum them up, however, and I'm ok with deleting or locking them, but I understand that there's going to be some close calls on some threads where some might say the mods went too far, others might say they did not do enough. It's quite the tightrope our mods walk!

[Oceania]

i would totally love a subforum for catalytic posts. that would be a great way to love the shadow. but i guess that won't happen.

lots of boards i've been to have had places for letting off steam, or infamy galleries and the like. i think those are a great idea.

[Aaron]

I understand where you're coming from, Oceania. And I agree with you that rules should always be questioned, not blindly followed. But when I question rules, I always personally make the full attempt to learn the purpose for their existence in the first place.

As I told you through PMs, the thread needs to remain closed because the posts visible on the last page are not something that we want to be a part of what's displayed on Bring4th. They were exceptionally rude and obscene, and not fit to be a part of public, visual, community communication.

Of course Bring4th will always contain the darkest of the dark stuff, because it contains the whole spectrum, because we're human beings. However, it does have a specific focus and a goal (this is something the moderator team wishes to publicly specify soon). Reading the front page and the guidelines can give one an idea of that focus or purpose. The guidelines were specifically created to engender that purpose, which, roughly, is the communion with eachother in the awareness of the love we find within ourselves and which the Confederation materal as channeled by L/L Research helps us to discover within ourselves.

The goal is to be a positively oriented community. This means lots of things, but especially being of service to one another while we seek to polarize. I know that service to eachother comes in many ways, a lot of which are not outwardly loving, are not coming from the green ray. But because the goal is to be a positively oriented community, we're striving for that open green ray in all interactions with eachother. And because this is an L/L Research website, because the focus of study and basis of understanding is the Ra Material, the guidelines for forum usage attempt to outline a standard for communication and interaction with eachother that reflect understanding gained by the Ra Material. For example, guideline 1, which seeks to apply the core truth found in the Confederation channelings, that each is the Creator.

Some people have a desire to help create a positive community here, perhaps being being able to remember love, or remember a harmonious environment, or remember a desire to serve. But we are all absolutely unique, and not all of us have this desire. So for a community which seeks to positively polarize, there has to be some standard of interaction with eachother that reflects the focus of the community.

Of course being human as we are, most of us instantly forget everything we've learned/remembered the moment we become catalyzed by something. And it's hard to remain in a place that desires to be of service to the Creator in each when that happens, but being able to do that is the key. This forgetting of other-self as the Creator or even as other-self happens countless times on Bring4th, and your thread was one of those such times.

This is why we don't want it publicly displayed. It's not loving interaction, it's quite the opposite. Actually the last page was filled with a member who, by his own words wished to leave the community, speaking not just disrespectfully, but downright hatefully towards other members. I agree with you that instances of fighting can definitely be learned from. But it's not Bring4th's aim or focus to learn from eachother and serve eachother through fighting with eachother. This is a place of learning to polarize positively. This absolutely does NOT mean that anger and other emotions which would cause one to fight are repressed, ignored, or anything of the sort. It means that they are handled in a healthy manner for one who is seeking to polarize positively. In fact, the Ra Material contains a detailed example of how a positively polarizing being would handle anger arising within itself.

These instances where the guidelines are forgotten, where the Creator and other-self are forgotten, where love and desire to serve is forgotten, are moderated (hardly ever actually deleted) by us as we seek to guide Bring4th and its community towards the goal. We have to keep the focus on love if we want to get anywhere.

---

Well, if we moved all threads with quarrels in them to a different location, there would be a lot of misplaced threads. What about the people who created those threads who just wanted to discuss the topic in their mind?

We do have a thread for working out catalyst among members: Cognitive Distortions and Forum Relationships

Usually this thread is also something that's forgotten when the catalyst hits fast and hard. :p So sometimes it's used and sometimes it's not. Usually a reminder within the quarrel, and sometimes some moved posts, are required to encourage proper use of that thread.

[Ankh]

What was that thread about, oceania? People were asking you that repeatedly in that thread, but no one received any clear answer. So they kept talking about all kind of things. The discussion in it was confusing, and no one really knew what was all about. Then a member started to be really disrespectful towards another member, more and more in post after post after post after post, in a matter of minutes. I saw all that just before it was taken offline (and thank God for that). Did you see it just before it was taken offline, oceania?

I disagree with you that our moderators go too far in protecting the rules. They are very loving and sometimes even way too accepting when yappings going on. They let people keep speaking and vent their feelings and thoughts, without acting, but just watching, which to me is a sure sign of acceptance and love of fourth dimension.

[Spaced]

Here we go again

[Oceania]

you could remove the most offending posts and return the thread locked.

ok, you've made your point about B4, how about another board? how do you feel about these ideas on a board not affiliated with L/L?

---

What was that thread about, oceania? People were asking you that repeatedly in that thread, but no one received any clear answer. So they kept talking about all kind of things. The discussion in it was confusing, and no one really knew what was all about. Then a member started to be really disrespectful towards another member, more and more in post after post after post after post, in a matter of minutes. I saw all that just before it was taken offline (and thank God for that). Did you see it just before it was taken offline, oceania?

I disagree with you that our moderators go too far in protecting the rules. They are very loving and sometimes even way too accepting when yappings going on. They let people keep speaking and vent their feelings and thoughts, without acting, but just watching, which to me is a sure sign of acceptance and love of fourth dimension.

no i did not see it, because they shelved it. why are you thankful for seeing the thread if you think other people should be prevented from seeing it?

[norral]

there are some forums where every post is moderated before being visible. we have a lot of freedom here. if u want a place like that go start one yourself and do the work. then u can have any kind of forum u want. to blithely make comments about how things should be is like going to someones house for dinner and saying u know what this meal is crap u should have made this this and this. it would take about one second for me to escort u out the door. like i said if u want the perfect forum go start one yourself. then u will get a chance to see for yourself what it takes. any one complaining about this forum is living in a fantasy world in my opine. i am grateful to have a place like this its up to me to adjust to the forum not for the forum to adjust to me

norral

[Jeremy]

There shouldn't be a reason for the steam to have accumulated enough to have to be let off if one were not taking the illusion so seriously and just let it be. Recognizing the shadow is great.
Embracing it then focusing on its opposite before one takes the dramatic step towards negativity is where many seem to be tripping up

[Ankh]

What was that thread about, oceania? People were asking you that repeatedly in that thread, but no one received any clear answer. So they kept talking about all kind of things. The discussion in it was confusing, and no one really knew what was all about. Then a member started to be really disrespectful towards another member, more and more in post after post after post after post, in a matter of minutes. I saw all that just before it was taken offline (and thank God for that). Did you see it just before it was taken offline, oceania?

I disagree with you that our moderators go too far in protecting the rules. They are very loving and sometimes even way too accepting when yappings going on. They let people keep speaking and vent their feelings and thoughts, without acting, but just watching, which to me is a sure sign of acceptance and love of fourth dimension.

no i did not see it, because they shelved it. why are you thankful for seeing the thread if you think other people should be prevented from seeing it?

I'm thankful that it was taken offline, not because I saw it.

What was your other thread about?

[Oceania]

i thought you saw it?

---

there are some forums where every post is moderated before being visible. we have a lot of freedom here. if u want a place like that go start one yourself and do the work. then u can have any kind of forum u want. to blithely make comments about how things should be is like going to someones house for dinner and saying u know what this meal is crap u should have made this this and this. it would take about one second for me to escort u out the door. like i said if u want the perfect forum go start one yourself. then u will get a chance to see for yourself what it takes. any one complaining about this forum is living in a fantasy world in my opine. i am grateful to have a place like this its up to me to adjust to the forum not for the forum to adjust to me

norral

"Oceania said: as i said before, which fell to deaf ears, i'm not suggesting cutting out rules all together. but rules should be questioned. "

do i have to make this bold? seriously? i'm trying to HAVE A DISCUSSION NOT OVERTHROW THE MODS. if you have a problem with my thread why not ignore it instead of swinging in here and making blind accusations without reading my OP?

[Ankh]

i thought you saw it?

Yes, I did, and as I said in my other post - no one received any clear answer from you what that thread was about. To me it looked just a discussion about... yeah, what? And then the insults started.

[Oceania]

There shouldn't be a reason for the steam to have accumulated enough to have to be let off if one were not taking the illusion so seriously and just let it be. Recognizing the shadow is great.
Embracing it then focusing on its opposite before one takes the dramatic step towards negativity is where many seem to be tripping up

this is a good point. can i have more of this kind here and not the same old crap about me overthrowing the government and bashing people's meals in their house? i mean i wanted a serious discussion, why is it being taken as accusation?

---

i thought you saw it?

Yes, I did, and as I said in my other post - no one received any clear answer from you what that thread was about. To me it looked just a discussion about... yeah, what? And then the insults started.

what's your point woman?

[Aaron]

you could remove the most offending posts and return the thread locked.

ok, you've made your point about B4, how about another board? how do you feel about these ideas on a board not affiliated with L/L?

Again as I said in PM, the reasons why it was taken offline and will remain offline are twofold. The main reason is because of those posts. The secondary reason (and this is why I asked you to create a new, more descriptive thread instead) was because the thread didn't generate the discussion that you wanted. You became angry at a few members in that thread because they didn't grasp what you wanted them to discuss, and started saying other things to you instead. Creating a new thread was the easiest and simplest solution.

The first post in the old thread was only one line of text. It could easily be expanded upon by you in order to clarify the discussion you wanted to have. More or less, I think you've done that in this thread.

About other boards, well other forums have all kinds of methods for dealing with dissent and disharmony. And it varies depending on the subject matter of the forums. Remember when yossarian was talking about psychology forums? Those would handle disputes in a much different way than, for example, a car forum would.

The point is that Bring4th attempts to handle disputes in a spiritual light, and this is perhaps unique among webforums. What's definitely unique is that they are attempted to be handled in awareness of the Ra Material and its contents.

What was your point with bringing up other forums though?

---

Mod note:

Please keep guideline number one in mind when posting further in this thread.

1) Respect. Compassion. Loving-kindness. Empathy. Trust. Goodwill. Desire to serve. Embracing each other. Opening our heart. Participants are asked to keep the thought in the forefront of their minds at all times that each on this forum IS the Creator. Please keep communication respectful at all times and in all ways. The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author of the idea. Please remember that we are all here to expand our knowledge, deepen our understanding, and support one another by reflecting our divinity to each other. We are One being -- we are not here to forget the real.

[Oceania]

i don't want this discussion to be only about B4 but message boards in general. if anyone has any views. but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP SAYING THAT I'M BEING A RUDE GUEST PEOPLE, if you WANT, start a thread saying Oceania is a rude guest. but keep it out of here or the old crap will start again. i personally consider it off topic to talk about that. i'm looking for an actual discussion and if people give me actual fodder for thought, i will keep an open mind to possibly changing my views. i just don't understand why a simple question makes me a rude guest?

[Aaron]

i don't want this discussion to be only about B4 but message boards in general. if anyone has any views. but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP SAYING THAT I'M BEING A RUDE GUEST PEOPLE, if you WANT, start a thread saying Oceania is a rude guest. but keep it out of here or the old crap will start again. i personally consider it off topic to talk about that. i'm looking for an actual discussion and if people give me actual fodder for thought, i will keep an open mind to possibly changing my views. i just don't understand why a simple question makes me a rude guest?

I don't think it makes you a rude guest. But I think I've said everything I can on your subject. I'm honestly not knowledgeable about how other forums handle disputes. Yossarian shared a little of that, and I considered it very healthy and useful information. I know that you said you've been a moderator of a different forum before. Do you have anything to share regarding that?

I agree with you that personally attacking your character isn't in line with the first guideline, and shouldn't be taking place here. But in my absolutely honest opinion, I feel like you're taking things that people are saying too seriously, and getting upset because of that. If I were in your position, I would calmly explain myself to members who get the wrong idea about what you're trying to discuss, instead of getting angry at them.

Putting into practice the anger exercise from the Ra Material I mentioned earlier might also help:

46.9 Questioner: Certainly.
Ra: The entity polarizing positively perceives the anger. This entity, if using this catalyst mentally, blesses and loves this anger in itself. It then intensifies this anger consciously in mind alone until the folly of this red-ray energy is perceived not as folly in itself but as energy subject to spiritual entropy due to the randomness of energy being used.

Positive orientation then provides the will and faith to continue this mentally intense experience of letting the anger be understood, accepted, and integrated with the mind/body/spirit complex. The other-self which is the object of anger is thus transformed into an object of acceptance, understanding, and accommodation, all being reintegrated using the great energy which anger began.

The negatively oriented mind/body/spirit complex will use this anger in a similarly conscious fashion, refusing to accept the undirected or random energy of anger and instead, through will and faith, funneling this energy into a practical means of venting the negative aspect of this emotion so as to obtain control over other-self, or otherwise control the situation causing anger.

Control is the key to negatively polarized use of catalyst. Acceptance is the key to positively polarized use of catalyst. Between these polarities lies the potential for this random and undirected energy creating a bodily complex analog of what you call the cancerous growth of tissue.

[Oceania]

thanks, you're right, i'm letting it get to me. i'll try to breathe before posting.

---

the forums where i did any modding were very different, embraced fighting in good ways and bad ways. but always considered it something inherently part of forum life, to be relished as freedom. this forum is different, and i don't always understand its approach to fighting. i can see the appeal though, to have a "safe environment" but if the fighty feelings are there, and fighting happens anyway, it's more an illusion of peace. at times it has been especially bad here, regardless of rules. the mods are actually pretty lax about it all. what gives?

[norral]

like i said oceania go start this forum that embodies what u want. let me know so i can peek in on it. i wish u well. i can participate in any thread i want whenever i want . its not up to you to determine that and it never will be up to you. if u dont like my participation in a thread i really could care less.

norral

[BlatzAdict]

this forum will not embody what you want, instead it will embody the energy that you put in, and return it to you twofold.

[Oceania]

Norral, it's not your business to tell me what threads i can make either. who are you to tell me that?

---

and you're off topic again. please stop derailing my thread!

[Brittany]

Okay. I'll play mirror and talk to you the way you're talking to everyone else.

Why do certain threads get edited, locked, etc? Because if you don't clean the house every once in a while, people think you're a slob and they stop coming around. If you want to b**** and bash so bad, go join 4chan or troll youtube videos.

This isn't the occasional slip-up that everyone has, but a consistent insistence on being rude, immature and provoking. If you're going out of your way to act like a child, why should you be treated like an adult? Actually, I'm not sure that's a good analogy, because most of the children I know have a better grasp of common courtesy. If you want people to pay attention to what you're saying, try having some basic respect instead of just trolling every thread you visit. Do unto others and such.

Anyone who knows me knows I've been the front line objector to many of this forum's policies over the years, but honestly, this is the stuff that makes the most agreeable people quit the forum. Cut the crap.

[Ankh]

i can participate in any thread i want whenever i want . its not up to you to determine that and it never will be up to you.

Actually, this does sound like a 4D+ forum. The problem is that we are not in 4D+ as the planetary consciousness, but in 3D+/-=??!

Soooo, since we are in 3D+/-=??!, we have all kind of different, confused energies here, like a-hole energies, troll energies, derailing energies etc. Of course, the entities creating these energies are *Infinite* Creators, and can therefore not be defined as a-holes, trolls etc. as their true nature is infinite. But right now, when we are here, and playing roles of a-holes, trolls etc, I guess that we also need other Creators, playing roles as moderators, administrators etc. who are trying to keep the houses clean, in order to balance.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I'd like to reiterate what Aaron said here:

I agree with you that personally attacking your character isn't in line with the first guideline, and shouldn't be taking place here.

as well as this particular sentiment from guideline one, as Aaron posted:

The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author of the idea.


Oceania not only has a right to propose this topic, but this particular discussion could be interesting and useful for the moderators as we continually try to improve our handling of issues on the forums. Please keep discussion on the topic at hand and not the poster who proposed it.

[reeay]

This is what I hear Oceania is saying - "Why don't you hear what I'm trying to say? Why am I being attacked when all I want to do is talk about something that I'm dealing with right now? I just want to be heard... I'm angry because I feel attacked instead of being heard and being put into a role of a negative 'instigator' of conflict"

I understand you want to discuss and learn because you're in touch with something that is important to your learning right now. You recognized that your anger level was rising and said this: "thanks, you're right, i'm letting it get to me. i'll try to breathe before posting." Awesome.

I think this is what happens. We get angered/activated and let the 'emotion' run our actions. When emotions flood through the lymbic system, it literally takes over the rational part of mind (e.g., frontal lobe). We call it Amygdala hijacking. So on a forum when tempers rise and people start to bicker or whatnot, maybe they could use that method there - take a breath before posting. If we're able to self-sooth (calm ourselves down) and work thru this internally or with others, I don't think we would need as much moderations or guidelines/rules. To take that breath is crucial.

[norral]

i like what lynn said ha ha that works for me . and i think i like what ankh said but im not sure because i got lost some where in the 3d + 4d - a hole type thingy. but ankh even though i dont understand what u said it feels good ha ha . now if that isnt clear just refer back to ankhs thread but only if it is a full moon and u are upside down while reading the thread. then not only will the thread make sense but life will also. there i have said my peace and love to all i will watch

norral

[Ankh]

"only if it is a full moon and you are upside down it will make sense" ahahahahaa!! OMG, it was a while ago I laughed so much! Thanks for the laughs, my brother!

[BrownEye]

Soooo, since we are in 3D+/-=??!, we have all kind of different, confused energies here, like a-hole energies, troll energies, derailing energies etc.

I am half asleep this morning just skimming before my road trip, and this has me laughing enough that my eyes are watering ha!

This is the most lenient board I have been on.

People get accustomed to something and it becomes "not good enough" anymore. This happens in my workplace. No matter how easy their job is, once they get used to it, any time they have to bump up the pace they become belligerant, combative, and angry. So we send them to an area that operates at a "normal" pace and they beg to come back, and they are quiet for maybe up to 6 months. It always seems to take a period of time before they forget how good they have it, and start to complain about what they have.

I think there is a saying "you don't know what you have until you lose it".

[Ray]

I feel your frustration, OC, it is hard to fight the urge to confront these things directly, it takes a lot of self-discipline. You are not alone, many here would like to deal with their annoyances, but cannot find the words that will conform to the illusion. Be long in thought and subtle in action, and you may find a way to turn strength against itself.

---

I am half asleep this morning just skimming before my road trip, and this has me laughing enough that my eyes are watering ha!

This is the most lenient board I have been on.

By gaining pleasure from others pain, you prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the truth of your own statement.

[Lycen]

forum shadows, love it or hate it?

Accept it

This place is not free it has rules because it follows STO opposite to STS. That alone tells, that being here is a choice within certain guidelines. For if there was an universal way everyone could be at any moment. Ways of STO and STS would cease to exist. There would be only one way.

I come here to experience/share what I perceive as love. I am quite aware of the darker things of life. I can experience them everyday if I so choose. Usually I do not, and coming here I do not seek the "lower" vibrations that we all have. But I am aware that they will be found here sometimes. I try to help peeps, when I see something like that happening here. Following my true feelings and I share what I feel is right.

As many others I feel the mods are doing an exceptional job with the rules set. Are the rules perfect? No I think, and they should be ever questioned as everything. But they are acceptable when one is on the path to STO me thinks. That is why this place exist. Like Aaron said this forum has a specific goal/aim. And I am quite sure it is in the lines of service to others. As thus it will have rules that reflect this way, as would a service to self forum have ones that reflect their path.

I am just sharing my thoughts on this. I think its a great thing that you brought this up Oceania. We should confront the shadows not hide them. But we do not need to let them loose here just because of the catalyst.
If they do appear, we should handle them in the light of STO and withing the rules we agreed to follow here.

This place aims to create balance me thinks, but it is not so itself, in its core. By its creation it means to focus on the light. But balance needs the to include the dark as well. The sun covers half the word all the time, the other half is needed for the dark. For there are dwellers who live in the night. Think animals, bugs, bats..

We come here for the light, we get the darkness probably els where. On one level or an other. So together these create the opportunity for balance. I think we should not encourage to share the shadow here, but when it comes. Accept it and give it love

I get what you are trying to say Oceania even if it may fail to reflect it in my words. Also this should be discussable without anyone becoming under fire so to speak. And I am very curious to understand more view points on this matter. As meine alone is but one.

Lets focus on the matter at hand

(Edit: fixed some unintentional grammar)

[Oceania]

i really just wanted to bring it up and look at it from a certain angle but i'm not attached to that angle nor do i feel terribly oppressed by the rules. i don't understand why people jump on me for expressing a different viewpoint. i felt i had to defend myself against stuff people assumed of me when it wasn't true.