US Dollar/Euro about to finally collapse?

[GreatSpirit]

David Wilcock stated on his blog about 2 weeks ago.."In the meantime, while I was in Australia I heard credible insider reports, from the highest levels, that the US dollar is within weeks, not months, of collapsing -- and the Euro is even closer. My dreams seem to be mirroring this information as well. I keep hearing that massive changes are imminent -- almost every morning."

I won't say anything more because I will end up "offending" people but that I am only posting this because David did.

[Liet]

Is it a common occurance that your dreams mirror what you have experienced or read about during the day / past days?

edit: i thought the quote ended where it didnt, thought it was his prediction and your deam.

[yossarian]

How many times does David have to be wrong about his predictions for people to stop listening?

He was extremely serious telling us the world was gonna end in the year 2000. In late 1999 he even said his goodbyes to his readership and went off to prepare. Nothing happened. Twelve years later, the name of his site is no longer "Ascension 2000" and he's still making wrong predictions daily. 2012 is more than half over and NOTHING IS HAPPENING.

His dreams are not revealing anything. They are just dreams like all of us have. David's dreams have no bearing on the state of the world -- delusions of grandeur much?

[Patrick]

... 2012 is more than half over and NOTHING IS HAPPENING...

I would not go so far. Lots of people really are awakening, more than statistically plausible. But ascension is a personal process.

...it is within the self that the transition shall truly occur. That which occurs at harvest is within the self; that which occurs within the planet, although interesting, is a separate subject from the one which might well be considered far more interesting to the self. And that is that it is likely that this lifetime or at the very most, for those who die soon from the physical body, one more lifetime, shall be the last opportunity before graduation to refine the polarity of self to the point at which you the seeker might accept the quality of light which is the native light in fourth density...

[hogey11]

How many times does David have to be wrong about his predictions for people to stop listening?

He was extremely serious telling us the world was gonna end in the year 2000. In late 1999 he even said his goodbyes to his readership and went off to prepare. Nothing happened. Twelve years later, the name of his site is no longer "Ascension 2000" and he's still making wrong predictions daily. 2012 is more than half over and NOTHING IS HAPPENING.

His dreams are not revealing anything. They are just dreams like all of us have. David's dreams have no bearing on the state of the world -- delusions of grandeur much?

Wow - move on, man! You are living in the past!

I never really followed David before some point in 2011. All of this 'drama' that you and other boo-birds constantly refer to is something that I have no idea about; I wasn't in the community back then, and I understand the thrust of your critique towards him.

Personally, I haven't seen David make any predictions that weren't heavily predicated with caveats about sources possibly being wrong or happenstance getting in the way. He has passed on information from some of his sources as far as specific dates (which I don't blame him for), and he has shared some of his dreams and what he felt was to be interpreted by them. I'm okay with that; as much as there is going to be some ego play involved, we're 3D beings on a 3D planet. Why wouldn't we have some ego tied in at times? I'm willing to deal with a little of his ego to hear what he has to say.

I have also seen David become more humble because of his mis-steps in the past. I think that is a very respectable thing, as it shows both humility and self-awareness. Imagine David is on much of a path as you or I are; none of us do this thing perfectly, man.

As far as the 2000 thing goes, again, it's in the past. I'm going to assume that was a major piece of catalyst for David, and I hope that he was able to learn many lessons from in the 12 years since it happened. I think we need to forgive at some point, don't you???

As far as 2012 goes, I would hardly say that NOTHING has happened, especially when you consider it next to last year (2011). Last year we had Arab Spring raging, the Fukushima disaster, volatile markets - generally a s*** mix of chaos. This year, we have Obama officially ending the war in Iraq, we've seen an almost-WW3 situation pretty much defused between Iran & the US, strong consumer social bills are being upheld in courts, Bankers are appearing before congress and implicating themselves with ignorance... 2012 has been LARGELY more positive than 2011.

Now let's take it a little deeper on the horizon... LIBOR looks like it could be the greatest crime in history as it may have been manipulated for nearly 20 years and is tied to over $800 Trillion (with a T) in financial instruments. It is the heaviest interest rate marker in the financial world, and it's been rigged for a very long time. All consumber debt is tied to LIBOR as the primary interest rate marker... so where can this possibly lead if the Fed is proven to have fraudulently altered this number for a very long time? debt forgiveness maybe? So we can add that to the 'interesting things' that have happened so far - the largest financial fraud in history. No big deal tho, right?

There is a LOT of news out there that you will never read or see in your local paper or television. That's just how it is. 2012 has a lot of time still left to heat up. I have not given up on my anticipation quite yet.

[yossarian]

... 2012 is more than half over and NOTHING IS HAPPENING...

I would not go so far. Lots of people really are awakening, more than statistically plausible. But ascension is a personal process.

You've completely missed my point.

David does not claim ascension is a personal process. David claims it involves a major global shift that happens to everyone and that, before ascension, amazing things are going to happen like disclosure and the overthrow of the NWO and all this stuff.

Every year since 1999 he has been predicting OVERT, measurable, concrete social events whether it's financial collapse, currency collapse, mass arrests, disclosure, or a massive ascension event where people literally gain telekinesis and the ability to fly (without technology) or a mass alien landing.

None of it has come true. David says he bases his stuff on his dreams and intuition, but after 15 years of making wrong predictions he still hasnt figured out that his dreams have nothing to do with geopolitics or UFO disclosure or any of the other stuff he has said would happen that has not happened.

David does NOT claim that 2012 is about personal spiritual ascension. He claims it's about all these big political events and stuff.

---

Personally, I haven't seen David make any predictions that weren't heavily predicated with caveats about sources possibly being wrong or happenstance getting in the way.

Your self-submitted ignorance of public facts does not constitute an argument in your favour.

You started following David in 2011. I started following him in 2006, and on this forum some even know me as "The Guy Who Has Read Every Single Word David Has Ever Said."

I've literally read, watched, and listened to every single thing David has ever said. So I consider myself a world-class authority. I've spoken directly to David and he has spoken to me.

So, when you put forth your ignorance of his work as an argument in favour of him, all I hear is Yet Another Guru Worshipper. That's cool, I did it too. No skin off my back if you want to be ignorant of his terribly inaccurate track record.

Part of David's major problem is that he shifted away from timeless truth to constant reporting on political stuff that is ALWAYS wrong.

Back in 1997 when he was using his dream channeling to create spiritual teachings, it was a lot harder to disprove him.

Now in 2012 he makes outlandish predictions based on completely non-credible "insider testimony" that are ALWAYS wrong. He did not predict LIBOR anymore than my cat did when she meowed vaguely about some upcoming financial scandal. There is always a financial scandal of one kind or another; this isn't a valid prediction.

I predict the sun will rise tomorrow, or maybe it won't, but my insiders say it will and I'm pretty sure it will but if it doesn't I hedged my bets so you can't be mad at me. <--- what is the value of this statement? It's completely worthless. It's not even definite enough to let your audience project their shadow contents onto it.

David jumped the shark when he started writing articles based on "insider testimony" that is completely ridiculous and makes Alex Jones' ranting look like rigorous investigative journalism. David's new political schtick is what the Ra Material would describe as "deeply transient"

If David was a channeller, he would now be considered completely nullified and utterly detuned, producing 100% transient information with absolutely nothing that will be relevant in 10,000 years.

[Sagittarius]

He is a clown, good intentions or not. I find it quite silly that people still listen to any predictions he makes. Guy even looks like a loony. He is the Alex Jones of the new ager's.

[Ali Quadir]

@Yossarian, I would agree with you on the latest political stuff. The last 2 or 3 blogs were effectively zero content more intended to keep the audience warm but without any actual message.

However, as a self proclaimed authority on the man you should admit that these latest messages are nothing compared to the information he produced before that time. If you look at the source field investigations you can absolutely not call it zero content. And a few years ago he served very much as the man who gave the positive message when everyone else was simply spitting fear and he contradicted some messages that everyone believed in like the 14 october mass landing predictions by that australian woman.

The ascention 2000 matter might be inconvenient for him but I remind you that all the vectors at the time were pointing at 2000.. There's a very real possibility that the earth got a reprieve, we're in so called overtime. All the other things you claim did not come true are very much debatable. If you think in black and white binary then no. But if you think in two opposing forces wrestling each other then you cannot expect clear victories before all is done.

I do share your disappointment about his latest blog posts. They simply have no content. The trillion dollar lawsuit is verifiable. And the china october surprise was relatively good. But the rest he produced this year was either unverifiable or lacked relevancy.

The thing is.... as usual, nothing is black and white.

@Saggitarius
It's easy to spit venomous opinions. Hard to see the good in people. Even harder to find the balance.

[Plenum]

You started following David in 2011. I started following him in 2006, and on this forum some even know me as "The Guy Who Has Read Every Single Word David Has Ever Said."

I've literally read, watched, and listened to every single thing David has ever said. So I consider myself a world-class authority. I've spoken directly to David and he has spoken to me.

So, when you put forth your ignorance of his work as an argument in favour of him, all I hear is Yet Another Guru Worshipper. That's cool, I did it too. No skin off my back if you want to be ignorant of his terribly inaccurate track record.

Part of David's major problem is that he shifted away from timeless truth to constant reporting on political stuff that is ALWAYS wrong.

you can put me in the same boat yoss. I was a naive seeker, looking for someone to 'believe in'.

The lesson I learnt? trust in your own inner power, and in the beauty of your own journey. Don't be slavish to another's words. Even Ra is meant to be interpreted and distilled, so that it's meaning becomes personal for you.

other lesson? any time money gets involved, you usually want to run the other way.

[Patrick]

...The lesson I learnt? trust in your own inner power, and in the beauty of your own journey...

...I'm currently sixteen years old and having being awakened to this material last year (after watching David Wilcock's 2012 enigma) , I now continue to seek more. I've come to study the Law of One philosophy and seek answers to my questions...

All is well always my friends !

There is always Love in each moment and in each situation...

[kdsii]

Whoa, whoa guys! We just see things differently, that's all.

You see:



We see:

How many times does David have to be wrong about his predictions for people to stop listening?

He was extremely serious telling us the world was gonna end in the year 2000. In late 1999 he even said his goodbyes to his readership and went off to prepare. Nothing happened. Twelve years later, the name of his site is no longer "Ascension 2000" and he's still making wrong predictions daily. 2012 is more than half over and NOTHING IS HAPPENING.

His dreams are not revealing anything. They are just dreams like all of us have. David's dreams have no bearing on the state of the world -- delusions of grandeur much?

Wow - move on, man! You are living in the past!

I never really followed David before some point in 2011. All of this 'drama' that you and other boo-birds constantly refer to is something that I have no idea about; I wasn't in the community back then, and I understand the thrust of your critique towards him.

Personally, I haven't seen David make any predictions that weren't heavily predicated with caveats about sources possibly being wrong or happenstance getting in the way...

[hogey11]

Wow! such negativity... You people need to let go and forgive. Here is what I see here:

In your past, you have trusted David and he has let you down. I think he let himself down too, but you don't seem to be too worried about that aspect.

Your self-submitted ignorance of public facts does not constitute an argument in your favour.

You started following David in 2011. I started following him in 2006, and on this forum some even know me as "The Guy Who Has Read Every Single Word David Has Ever Said."

and what ignorant facts are you speaking of? If your point is that you are building your opinion of David on his past, I get that. You've made that clear. My point is that the 'red flags' that you are so concerned about have not been so apparent to someone who hasn't followed him as long. You will say "obviously, you are a lemming headed for the cliff!" but I would argue instead that David has grown up quite a bit.

Let's get real here. You are mad at David for making predictions that didn't come to pass. You are mad at David for not running away and hiding in response. The fact that he came back to the table drives you CRAZY. What does he know?!? He was WRONG.

Ok, well let's think about this. Predictions are tough. How many people on this planet make accurate predictions all of the time? If so, do they handle finances, cause i'd love some extra advice... My point is that predictions are by definition a guess. They are not truth. If you want to be mad at somebody, be mad at yourself; David is only sharing his journey.

As far as money goes, the only cash I have given David was to buy The Source Field Investigations. I do not malign him for trying to make a living through his work. He doesn't force any money from me, and for those who enjoy his lectures, i'm sure they would just spend that money at a big box store anyways, so I don't get too concerned about the funny money. It's just paper anyways.

If I look at what David has been doing for the last few years, it is not anything CLOSE to what he was doing even 5 years ago. He wrote the Source Field Investigations, which I found very very interesting and well worth the money. He has been watching and tracking the newsfeeds as he's been covering the China Surprise, Neil Keenan lawsuit, and the exopolitic scene over the last year or so. The lawsuits et al have completely checked out, but it still may be just a wild goose chase. Regardless, this lawsuit exists, and nobody can tell me our history is perfectly accurate. Should we ignore all these things and continue watching Dancing with the Stars or meditate alone instead?

Now this drives me crazy: you people who think you have a right to KNOW what is going on behind the scenes are like people in movie theatres who talk to the characters in the movie. You think the whole damn thing revolves around YOU. Ali brought up a great point earlier:

The ascention 2000 matter might be inconvenient for him but I remind you that all the vectors at the time were pointing at 2000.. There's a very real possibility that the earth got a reprieve, we're in so called overtime. All the other things you claim did not come true are very much debatable. If you think in black and white binary then no. But if you think in two opposing forces wrestling each other then you cannot expect clear victories before all is done.

Why do you think it's all so easy? What if we WERE supposed to start transitioning to a more positive planet around the year 2000 according to the information at the time, but what's stopping the Orion or STS factions from getting in the way? It's like the last 3 updates from David; low on information, but in the most critical time ever for the ruling class on this planet, doesn't it make sense that things would be under the surface?

You all may not appreciate it, but his research into the news cycles finding some of the story lines underneath is really enlightening to me, and I was able to learn from it as well. He is now finishing up a follow-up book to the Source Field Investigations that should be released in the next year or two. These are good and productive things. He's holding his conferences where he gives people a lot of information and his time. Some people love his music, and some would love to meditate with him. Why do you hate other's love?

I just don't see his great exploitation on everyone. Yes, he did some stupid s*** in the past, but so did I. Like plenum said, we have to trust ourselves first, just as we have to blame ourselves first.

If you insist on hating and despising David, that is okay. Just understand that some of us don't need to be 'protected' from people like David. Some of us can love him and learn from him, even despite his faults. Again, without David's passion and without him dedicating his entire life to the propagation of the Law of One, I wouldn't be at this forum right now. It's easy for all of us to point out his mistakes, but David has completely put himself out there. This is a tough thing to do for anybody, let alone somebody who does what he does. I don't think any of us could deal with it, tbh...

[kdsii]

My only point is this.

Do I get a cult-ish vibe from Carla and Jim?
Do they need white house length essays on why they aren't shady?

Nah. I trust them, because I can feel that. They're grounded, good, honest, -real- people. The L/L folks radiate light and love, as do many in this forum, including you, Hogey.

My cult-dar has never been wrong, and I get weird vibes from DW and others.

Wow! such negativity... You people need to let go and forgive. Here is what I see here:

In your past, you have trusted David and he has let you down. I think he let himself down too, but you don't seem to be too worried about that aspect...

[xise]

Didn't Ra say that its when you talk about specific dates and when you get visions of doom it is usually a sts entity trying to throw a sto person off his path?

Just reading over this thread brought up that thought...perhaps he's a sto guy who has been deeply misled by sts sources.

[Patrick]

Didn't Ra say that its when you talk about specific dates and when you get visions of doom it is usually a sts entity trying to throw a sto person off his path?

Just reading over this thread brought up that thought...perhaps he's a sto guy who has been deeply misled by sts sources.

From Ra material book 5.

...Negative entities stand ready to fill in any lapse of care in this regard with their offering of service in their own way; that is, mimicking the positive contact only as much as necessary to maintain the channel and then giving false information whenever possible, usually having to do with dates and descriptions of upcoming cataclysmic earth changes which, when made public by the group receiving such information makes the group lose credibility since the dates are never correct. Thus the negative entity takes the spiritual strength of the light which the group had been able to share in service-to-others work...

[βαθμιαίος]

Just to clarify -- that Book 5 quote is from Jim, not Ra. http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is...ook_5.aspx

[kdsii]

Yeah, but the core idea there is that Ra's contact is/was narrow-band.
To an extent, all positive teachings are of a kind of slim bandwidth.
This means that if communication is to be maintained, a certain set of rules/curriculum must be observed.
On the flipside, you have less-than-benevolent entities who will answer any question presented and will often run the channel's credibility into the dirt.

The future is an array of possibilities. It can't be predicted, only slimmed down to probability.
It just surprises me that intelligent guys/girls, once on a straight and narrow path, can no longer sniff out misinformation and get sucked into... well, gambling.

If you can tell me something that Ra wouldn't go near, sumthin's up.

Just to clarify -- that Book 5 quote is from Jim, not Ra. http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is...ook_5.aspx

---

Yeah, but the core idea there is that Ra's contact is narrow-band.
To an extent, all positive teachings are of a kind of slim bandwidth.
This means that if communication is to be maintained, a certain set of rules/curriculum must be observed.
On the flipside, you have less-than-benevolent entities who will answer any question presented and will often run the channel's credibility into the dirt.

The future is an array of possibilities. It can't be predicted, only slimmed down to probability.
It just surprises me that intelligent guys/girls, once on a straight and narrow path, can no longer sniff out misinformation and get sucked into... well, gambling.

Just to clarify -- that Book 5 quote is from Jim, not Ra. http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is...ook_5.aspx

[βαθμιαίος]

In David's defense, he's not offering messages of doom, which is how Ra said that positive channels were usually compromised. Ra also said that it wasn't the specificity of information that attracted negative influences but the importance placed upon it.

I'm not sure how much importance David places on specific information because I haven't kept up with his site recently. More than none, I guess, or he wouldn't even mention mass arrests, etc.

[yossarian]

Didn't Ra say that its when you talk about specific dates and when you get visions of doom it is usually a sts entity trying to throw a sto person off his path?

Just reading over this thread brought up that thought...perhaps he's a sto guy who has been deeply misled by sts sources.

As an authority on DW's work who has literally read everything he has ever put out, this is precisely what DAVID HIMSELF claimed in 1998 when he started channelling stuff that was transient.

David said in his notes, "Wow, my material is really transient. Some of it even gives specific dates! This means my channel is detuned."

And then what did he do? HE KEPT GOING ANYWAY.

This was 1998. Come 1999 and he's predicting major global catastrophe followed by ascension in 2000.

He's been repeating the same process since 1998. Channelling alone, interpreting his dreams, all of which are wrong again and again.

Then he finds some cherry picked science from Dr. Smelyakov and others (without bothering to actually replicate or fact check the science) that is inline with his channelled material and promotes the s*** out of it.

It IS interesting that Dr. Smelyakov did all this crazy stuff. But David has had 10 years now where he could have replicated these simple experiments or pushed for something verifiable. What is his evidence that this isn't scientific fraud like the scientific community has determined? His evidence is his CHANNELLED MATERIAL. When it comes down to it, David backs up all his claims with his dream channelling.

Meanwhile, David himself claims that dreams are NOT global, that dreams do NOT tell you objective facts about the world but rather that they are a subjective window into your feelings and personal life. Then, David goes and uses HIS OWN dreams as evidence of global change--he claims that he is different from everyone else, his dreams are WORLD DREAMS that have global significance and predict events. He says this while telling his readers that THEIR dreams DO NOT predict global events. This is another sign of a detuned channel.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. But when the clock is wrong 90% of the time you know you have a broken clock. The 10% of correct predictions are NOT evidence that the clock is working.

All his information now comes from

a) "Insider sources" who could just as easily be "Illuminati" plants as they could be legit.

b) "Intuitive sources" which, in David's case, are verifiably and self-admittedly detuned. His process has failed again and again. He shouldn't be channelling alone. He shouldn't be channelling transient information. He knows this. We all know this. But he does it anyway because he wants a politically relevant career.

I haven't stopped following David, I've just become extremely disappointed in how bad his material is getting. No truth content to be found. Not even any potential truth content. He's all about Benjamin Fulford now, a guy who is completely bogus and also makes completely wrong predictions all the time.

And by the way, any argument that "Well, you don't know that maybe he is telling the truth but insider stuff has gone down making him be wrong!"

I don't care WHY he's wrong. If he's wrong he's not a useful source of information or enlightenment. There are a million reasons why someone can be wrong, the point is that those people should not be given huge audiences because they are wrong. David's process of finding the truth has been debunked by himself. His whole schtick has become a self-referential joke at this point and if he was honest with himself he would give it up and find a new career. But he's too deep in, he's too popular, he has too much money. He's psychologically stuck--imagine the backlash if he just closed his website and retired? Imagine the backlash when December comes around and nothing historic happens, it's just another day no different than July 16th or January 1st.

---

In David's defense, he's not offering messages of doom, which is how Ra said that positive channels were usually compromised. Ra also said that it wasn't the specificity of information that attracted negative influences but the importance placed upon it.

I'm not sure how much importance David places on specific information because I haven't kept up with his site recently. More than none, I guess, or he wouldn't even mention mass arrests, etc.

You don't think predicting the collapse of the dollar is doom and gloom?

His information IS doom and gloom. He predicts one catastrophe and collapse after another. The only difference is that he says, after the catastrophe happens and things get worse, things will eventually get better. So he predicts doom and gloom but says things will be better after a period of tribulation. Sound like Christianity? It's functionally and psychologically identical.

Even his December 21st prediction is doom and gloom because he predicts that (a) the majority of humans are not going to heaven and (b) everyone will die before they ascend.

This amounts to doom and gloom regardless of the caveats tacked on at the end.

Also you bring up a good point about the specificity. He DOES place great importance on specific information. Less so 5 years ago, but very much so now. All his updates revolve around tiny specific details about "insider politics" which, even if it was 100% true (and it's verifiably false), is so incredibly transient.

[βαθμιαίος]

To me, it comes across more as wishful thinking than as doom and gloom.

[hogey11]

@yossarian

Dude, we're just on totally different wavelengths. All the things you warn me about David are things that are of no concern to me in the slightest. I hear no doom and gloom from David in the slightest, so I have no idea what half of your criticisms are even about.

I realize that there will be no convincing you that David is anything but a fraud, which is fair enough from your perspective. From my perspective, David is a very interesting man who is very open about his passions and his studies; I learn much from him, even if he is 'wrong' or misled from time to time. I've been misled my entire life and I'm doing okay.

Something that was glossed over is that truth-brokers are very hard to find in this world. Who are all these predictors who are always correct? They don't exist....

His information IS doom and gloom. He predicts one catastrophe and collapse after another. The only difference is that he says, after the catastrophe happens and things get worse, things will eventually get better. So he predicts doom and gloom but says things will be better after a period of tribulation. Sound like Christianity? It's functionally and psychologically identical.

Even his December 21st prediction is doom and gloom because he predicts that (a) the majority of humans are not going to heaven and (b) everyone will die before they ascend.

I don't know what to think about this. What December 21st prediction??!? I have a feeling a lot of your feelings towards David are things that YOU think - not things that he thinks. I have seen zero doom and gloom other than stating the obvious: if we see a collapse and we don't have any 'help' waiting, things are going to be bad. I have never seen David claim that we won't have help tho. His prediction around Dec. 21 purely surrounds the advent of a golden age, but in Source Field Investigations he also makes it clear that these dates are all approximations. I think David knows that things are fluid and changing from day to day. To assume otherwise when his last posts have been so clear that everything is currently up in the air is not fair in the least. You are attributing more certainty than David has.

Less so 5 years ago, but very much so now. All his updates revolve around tiny specific details about "insider politics" which, even if it was 100% true (and it's verifiably false), is so incredibly transient.

What do you mean verifiably false? How so? Also, why shouldn't experience be transient?

Why do you expect so much from David? I think that's your problem... YOU are turning him into a cult. Not people like me. To be honest, I see as much ego bleeding from yourself and your stance on David as I do from anything David has done...

The crazy thing is that i'm not even that 'into' David. I read his website once a month or so. I've read his book. Ultimately, I trust my higher self and it was my higher self that led me to David. David has been a muse and a guiding light towards understanding in my life. I understand that David may have been a drain or a distraction in your own life. I didn't have that experience, so i'm not going to propagate that. Instead, I will fight for people to see the David that I see. A man, not perfect, but trying to make the world a better place. Doing so doesn't mean that you have to be or become perfect either.

[yossarian]

So, in summary, the truth content of David's work is irrelevant to you. That's fine. But this thread is meant for people who are interested in what truth content his work contains. This thread is called "US Dollar/Euro about to collapse" which means it's about a specific claim made by David.

I'm discussing that claim. You want to discuss whether he's a nice guy. I don't care how nice he is, what I care about is his work. There are lots of nice people in the world. Most don't go around making unsubstantiated claims that always turn out wrong and using those claims to create a career.

At this point, how is David any different than L. Ron Hubbard? They both make outrageous claims and predictions which are either wrong or unprovable. They both make money from them. They both amass a sea of worshippers whether they asked for it or not. David is a nice guy whereas L. Ron Hubbard was kind of a dick. Is that all it takes to make being a cult leader ok? To be a nice guy? Then it's A-OK to make crazy predictions of the world ending that turn out wrong?

I don't claim to be an egoless enlightened master. David claims to have dreams that predict the earth's geopolitical future.

[hogey11]

Okay, so what are these claims you say he is making? What dates has he professed to come?

If you're argument is that David doesn't know the full extent of what is going on, I agree with you. The Keenan lawsuit is viable, and it is real. Our history has definitely been doctored by those who 'won'.

So what part of all of this so offensive to you? What are you hearing from David right now that is so egregious?

I have been following very closely for the last year, so shoot away. I'll know exactly what you are talking about once you can point it out.

Also, I was only speaking to David's character because you were basing so much of your opinion on your past relationship with him. My point was purely that someone's character can grow and mature; I feel David has done so. You seem to still be crucifying him due to some prediction he made back before 2000...

Actually, tell me this: do you believe it was impossible for the planet to experience massive changes in the year 2000? Is it at all possible that we had a window but we missed it? If that's the case, wasn't David correct in his wrongness?

This is what I mean. You judge David as if you know the truth of the matter, when you don't. None of us do. I think we should keep that in mind. David's sharing of dreams and his own analysis of said dreams is not a crime; I personally find it interesting, even if I put zero stock into it as truth. Like everything, I take what resonates and leave what does not. Maybe David doesn't have any lessons for you to learn....

[zenmaster]

People will listen to and believe David as people will buy what is published in the National Enquirer, as it nutures their escapism, stirs their sense of wonder and gives them an "authoritative" handle on aspects of their lives over which they have given little honest consideration. All it takes is a viewpoint that reinforces one's prejudicial view, or to intimate something that a so-called "insider said" that conveniently matches suspicions or some intuitive fantasy about what is "really going on".

[hogey11]

Nobody is really proposing that we're gonna go through some magic ascension door and pop into a 4D world on the other side. Even David, through the SFI and his articles, maintains a very 'real' viewpoint that these things are going to happen within our current world; not in a new one. It has been mentioned that David's work the last 6 months (if not 18 months) has turned somewhat 'political'; this is because David understands that this all starts with us on earth. It has to begin with each and every one of us being aware that a positive world IS a possibility if we believe it is attainable. If we don't, we will never gamble on our freedom; the system is set up to create downsides. People hate downsides. I think David is no longer looking to his dreams or to his guides for messages (although he still shares them), but instead he now primarily looks to the world for the messages and in that he has found new sources. Do I believe they are all good? Hell no! Doesn't mean that all of them are bad either... You gotta take some risks in life on both sides of things. Listening is a much smaller risk than you guys are making out. Listening is not believing.

When our planet takes a real negative turn anytime past December 21, 2012, i'll be the first to come here and say I was wrong and you were right.

When our economy bottoms out and people degenerate to animals, when there isn't nearly enough, when people can't take care of their own basic needs, i'll (try to) be the first to re-establish the internet and come here and say I was wrong and you were right.

I support David because I believe he is earnestly searching; just as I am. Nobody knows all the real answers; we have to work with one another.

@zen

Do you think 'freeing' the planet from the Banksters/Cabal/whomever is impossible? Is the ideal of 'heaven on earth' just a silly idea? Do you not think that should be our goal? To do it ourselves?

[zenmaster]

Do you think 'freeing' the planet from the Banksters/Cabal/whomever is impossible? Is the ideal of 'heaven on earth' just a silly idea? Do you not think that should be our goal? To do it ourselves?

Nothing wrong with idealism as long as it is consciously fulfilled using an honest approach which does not false-frame individuals or actual circumstances because the idealistic ends seem to justify those means. DW's narration of new-world change, with its leading innuendo, employing conspiracy theories, tech suppression, invisible hands, and "insider info", is indeed silly and yes, contemptible. However, hungry/lost followers will continue to focus on some idealism for its own sake and forgive all manner of well-meaning, but ultimately dishonest injustices fabricated to conveniently address social concerns esp wrt fringe/fantasy/sci-fi/fiction appetites.

[hogey11]

So there are no conspiracy theories that are true, there are no technologies that are being suppressed, there are no hidden political or financial powers, and there is nobody from within who wants to warn those outside?

Gotcha. I'll take your word for it. You would know, obviously.

Can it be true that there are aspects to these topics that are true, but even more prevalent is disinformation and the type of people you speak of? Do you reject the whole, or are you speaking in generalities?

[GreatSpirit]

People, there is no need for arguing. I was kind of hesitant to even post this because I knew how sensitive it was but I said f it because it was important. Let me just make one thing clear....forewarning is NOT negativity.

Let me tell you a story. A few years ago when the media hyped up how our economy was so bad and ppl were loosing their jobs, I thought nothing could happen to me because I was in my job in the call center for 7 years and there were many higher ups than me that would go first. In fact, I thought I had the safest job because I had a bachelors degree and I was the last one to leave as I was the supervisor who closed at night and was probably one of the most competent employees there.

Until last year they called me in HR one day out of the blue and said my position was being eliminated. I will never forget that day. And whats even worse? Just last month, the client (a huge food company you all know!) ended their contract with my previous employer so all my old co-workers are without jobs now collecting or already went to new jobs!!

The moral? DON'T THINK NOTHING BAD/CRAPPY CAN HAPPEN TO YOU!!

[Patrick]

...
The moral? DON'T THINK NOTHING BAD/CRAPPY CAN HAPPEN TO YOU!!

Don't even think that anything that happens to you is bad/crappy.

[xise]

...
The moral? DON'T THINK NOTHING BAD/CRAPPY CAN HAPPEN TO YOU!!

Don't even think that anything that happens to you is bad/crappy.

Patrick...I just wanted to say I get immense sense of zen/centered energy from you and from your posts these days...they are short, succinct, and totally on point. I like the vibration