STS: using standards of beauty to manipulate others

[Plenum]

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct to a great extent. Perhaps the most notable exception is the attitude of one already strongly polarized negatively towards the appearance of the body complex. There are those entities upon the negative path which take great care in the preservation of the distortion your peoples perceive as fairness/ugliness. This fairness of form is, of course, then used in order to manipulate other-selves. May we ask if there are any brief queries?

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...86&ss=1#22

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I think we have all seen examples of this in the mass media. Tv shows, movies, gossip mags - all good looking thin folks.

historically, the standards of 'fairness' have been most harshly applied to women. For guys, if you were rich, it didn't matter how 'ugly' or old you were, you were in.

recently though, this notion of 'fairness' is being increasingly applied to young males. I've read stories recently where guys feel the need to have 6 pack abs, go to the gym and take steroids, have cosmetic surgery etc to feel like they have a 'chance' with the opposite sex.

the manipulation is subtle ... and is all about presenting the 'ideal form' in the media. People then start having self-esteem problems, putting themselves down, cutting themselves. STS is laughing.

are you seeing this as well?

[Observer]

I have noticed this, but as a younger male I can say it does not affect me in my sexual or personal life. I take pride in my personal appearance whether I be chubby or fit. Hope I helped

[turtledude23]

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct to a great extent. Perhaps the most notable exception is the attitude of one already strongly polarized negatively towards the appearance of the body complex. There are those entities upon the negative path which take great care in the preservation of the distortion your peoples perceive as fairness/ugliness. This fairness of form is, of course, then used in order to manipulate other-selves. May we ask if there are any brief queries?

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...86&ss=1#22

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I think we have all seen examples of this in the mass media. Tv shows, movies, gossip mags - all good looking thin folks.

historically, the standards of 'fairness' have been most harshly applied to women. For guys, if you were rich, it didn't matter how 'ugly' or old you were, you were in.

recently though, this notion of 'fairness' is being increasingly applied to young males. I've read stories recently where guys feel the need to have 6 pack abs, go to the gym and take steroids, have cosmetic surgery etc to feel like they have a 'chance' with the opposite sex.

the manipulation is subtle ... and is all about presenting the 'ideal form' in the media. People then start having self-esteem problems, putting themselves down, cutting themselves. STS is laughing.

are you seeing this as well?

It's a phenomenon as old as civilization, the only difference now is we have more free time to court the opposite gender and do much less physical labour in our day to day lives so there's more potential to worry about appearance and it's harder to achieve them (for males). I'm tempted to say there's more emphasis on looks for females now than before because of advertising and fashion magazines however I recall a video I once watched of a sociology professor who said there's a correlation between how unfair a society is and how much a member of it needs to conform in order to live comfortably. So viewed from that perspective this is the first time in history women can dress however they feel like, take the female protagonist from The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo for instance, do you think any female could dress like that 60 years ago in even the most liberal of democracies? Never mind dictatorships hundreds of years ago.

Also I want to add that anyone we see in mainstream media is probably not very polarized in either direction, the entities which have heavily polarized in either direction would abhor and avoid media attention, those who want it are tadpoles who think they're whales.

[Sagittarius]

It has it's uses here I think. Just another path to trod and learn from. No doubt we have all been born both as physically perfect humans as well as ugly fat ones. Imagine the difference in the experience of a super-model with a less fortunate looking female.

[SomaticDreams]

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct to a great extent. Perhaps the most notable exception is the attitude of one already strongly polarized negatively towards the appearance of the body complex. There are those entities upon the negative path which take great care in the preservation of the distortion your peoples perceive as fairness/ugliness. This fairness of form is, of course, then used in order to manipulate other-selves. May we ask if there are any brief queries?

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...86&ss=1#22

---

I think we have all seen examples of this in the mass media. Tv shows, movies, gossip mags - all good looking thin folks.

historically, the standards of 'fairness' have been most harshly applied to women. For guys, if you were rich, it didn't matter how 'ugly' or old you were, you were in.

recently though, this notion of 'fairness' is being increasingly applied to young males. I've read stories recently where guys feel the need to have 6 pack abs, go to the gym and take steroids, have cosmetic surgery etc to feel like they have a 'chance' with the opposite sex.

the manipulation is subtle ... and is all about presenting the 'ideal form' in the media. People then start having self-esteem problems, putting themselves down, cutting themselves. STS is laughing.

are you seeing this as well?

I agree with turtledude, however, I would extend this idea further.

STS ideologies are set up as a matrix of domination. It is not enough to say race, gender, ability or sexual orientation is a problem. They are all intertwined and define a 'privileged group' within society.

People utilize sexual orientation as a way of keeping people into gender roles; "What are you a fag/dyke? That's gross"

People can utilize gender and (dis)ability: "She's a woman, she can't drive, I'll drive." on the flip side, when women internalize this, they might ask men do things that are considered manly jobs, like yard work, or carpentry.

People often utilize race and gender as well. "That black professor is so articulate! I wonder where she went to school?" Although a seemingly benign comment, the assumption is that black women cannot teach, or are usually inarticulate.

All of these repressive social structures come into play. Physical attraction is just one of many social categories that are defined by those who wield power. Not only through the mass media, but any form of pervasive media. Traditions assume as much, and ideas permeate through social groups. Girls internalize this image because boys naturally are taught the ideal of beauty at a young age. So the systems perpetuate unless they are made conscious.

This is not to say there are not exceptions, but they are just that. Exceptions. Those people stick out, and regularly have to defend their existence as a feminine male (but they are not gay), or perhaps a masculine female (who is gay but still likes to dress like a female).

There are many more systems out there that divide us. A good starting point is to (as suggested by the Dalai Lama) to find our similarities first, our common ground, and connect with each other there. We often find differences, and defend our egos from these differences, and define ourselves through this difference. This difference also holds power, prestige, and wealth.

Is a society truly free, or equal with these repressive systems? If a gay couple cannot get married, or a straight man act feminine? If a black couple can get honest financial advice from a bank, or not worry about appearing poor, because that reflects back onto their entire race (unlike whites. White's have 'white trash', but there's no 'black trash'.)

I don't believe there is an equal or free society at all across the world, nevertheless America. I see repression everywhere- and it is very subtle. It is catalyst none the less that one must be aware of because it's consequences are real for those who are oppressed. If I was a woman, I would want to be able to perform my best without being first thought of as an object of desire. I feel as this is where homophobia comes from- men are afraid they too might be treated as a sexual object. They feel how uncomfortable they become when being advanced on constantly by other men. Imagine how women must feel sometimes, well rather, all the time?

A good exercise is to hypothetically change your status in some manner. Your race, ability level, gender, sexual orientation or wealth. Would you still be friends with your current friends? Would you have the family you have now? Would you be living as comfortably? What type of political views might you have? Would you be more or less free to do as you wish?

I'll end by saying that men get away with being ugly because they are 'action' or 'doers'. They are judged by what they are able to do, and how much they can acquire. Woman are simply mere appearances. They are meant to be pleasant to look at, speak with and engage with. They should be quiet, modest and obedient (but somehow, paradoxically, sexual, flirtatious and beautiful).

This is not true everywhere of course, but it is still the prevailing paradigm within western culture, and the world over. It is hardly a minority opinion. There are others out there who recognize these repressive systems, and I commend them for their compassion.

I think this is a very important topic, I look forward to other opinions and perspectives.

[Meerie]

It has it's uses here I think. Just another path to trod and learn from. No doubt we have all been born both as physically perfect humans as well as ugly fat ones.

See - you are doing it also - automatically linking "fat" with "ugly". Apparently the media manipulation worked well
I think people who are more on the superficial side tend to think that way. I know guys whose beauty standards for a girl is darkhaired, size 36 / 38 (imagine that! they actually know the clothes size that their perfect mate must have. It is hilarious, in a way)

[Plenum]

It has it's uses here I think. Just another path to trod and learn from. No doubt we have all been born both as physically perfect humans as well as ugly fat ones.

See - you are doing it also - automatically linking "fat" with "ugly". Apparently the media manipulation worked well
I think people who are more on the superficial side tend to think that way. I know guys whose beauty standards for a girl is darkhaired, size 36 / 38 (imagine that! they actually know the clothes size that their perfect mate must have. It is hilarious, in a way)

and the images presented to us in the media aren't even real! see this:



lines under the eyes removed, cheek lines softened, skin tone lightened, her arm is made thinner??

google "faith hill 2007 redbook" for more details.

[Meerie]

Yes, incredible isn't it ? look how FAT she really is, on the right pic!
lol
whole media is just so fake
it is just sad that stuff like that drives some people (mostly girls but guys too, lately) into low self esteem and eating disorders.
Hello everyone out there! don't compare yourself to others! you are unique and beautiful just the way you are!
all your seeming "imperfections" just make you the extraordinary being that you are.
If God or the source or whatever you may call it, infinite intelligence, had wanted you to look like one of the photoshopped models, then you would have been created that way.
just imagine if everyone looked the same - wouldn't that be boring?
incredibly boring?
I read something someone had scribbled on a wall : "too perfect - God not pleased"
lol

[Meerie]

I have been wondering, what makes people afraid of getting fat or simply disliking it?
what is the implication behind that (other than "societal standards" which are also different - in other societies / times being fat was something to be aspired to, because it indicated a certain wealth)
Fat is stored energy. So someone who is fat is more substantial than a thinner person, in a physical way.
Julius Cesar is reported to have been saying "let fat men be around me"
I get a certain sense of comfort if someone carries some weight around with him / her, it is reassuring and stabilizing in a way. Thin people often have a certain briskyness and hectic which can be stressful to be around.
For example I was waiting for the train the other day - a woman was sitting at one of these metal seats at the station and I sat down next to her. She was very fat.
I felt very comfortable sitting next to her, firstly because she held off the cold winds that were blowing and she emanated a lot of stability and warmth, which to me felt very good on that cold and chilly day.
Just a side note on the subject

[Oldern]

How you look could be one of the biggest traps in your life.
It, without a doubt, can turn into a happy, meaningful(if this has any meaning, it might not) life into a living nightmare.

But thankfully, we have developed the necessary tools - including but not limited to arts, writing, singing, internet - to entertain ourselves and others even when we feel uncomfortable with a direct physical meeting.

[drifting pages]

Whats wrong with being beautiful though, i like looking good when i see myself in the mirror.

Not just because people appreciate it but because i appreciate it in myself.

Empowerment is the key, people should be able to look as anything they wish to, at any given moment.

Complete control over how you look, what gender, what species and how "old".

This has nothing to do with manipulating others and everything with allowing and power of choice and freedom to be.

[Oldern]

Whats wrong with being beautiful though, i like looking good when i see myself in the mirror.

Not just because people appreciate it but because i appreciate it in myself.

Empowerment is the key, people should be able to look as anything they wish to, at any given moment.

Complete control over how you look, what gender, what species and how "old".

This has nothing to do with manipulating others and everything with allowing and power of choice and freedom to be.

Uhm... liking yourself in the mirror is not bad.
Liking yourself in the mirror because you look "better" than others is just a result of an ego-based worldview.

But further down, photoshopping EVERYTHING and manipulating videos and images so that EVERY average or even good-looking man and woman feels bad about himself/herself IS horrible, and it is the standard for 4-5 decades now.

If you are immune to that, good for you

[SomaticDreams]

Whats wrong with being beautiful though, i like looking good when i see myself in the mirror.

Not just because people appreciate it but because i appreciate it in myself.

Empowerment is the key, people should be able to look as anything they wish to, at any given moment.

Complete control over how you look, what gender, what species and how "old".

This has nothing to do with manipulating others and everything with allowing and power of choice and freedom to be.

One can only be 'empowered' by being accepted by perceived 'otherselves'. The standard of which you define as 'good looking' or 'fair' is based off of your experience with other-selves. So no, it is not just the "power of choice and the freedom to be".

The distortion of free will and the law of confusion are in play here. We both rely on our social constructs of "beauty" and looks- but also we have a choice on how to redefine such things. This argument could easily be reduced to the western problem of "The one and the many" or related to the interdependence of dual natures, but I think focusing our discussion on this level is very useful, in the context of our society, so focused on this ideal of physical appearance.

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This is a general question/experiment for others to try out on the nature of beauty:

When you find someone beautiful, is only informed by social norms, or your own subjective, innate feeling of beauty?

Can you look at someone, first find them ugly, but then get to know them and they appear more beautiful, and get more beautiful as you get to know them better?

I'm sure you all can think of experiences, where this has been the case.

[drifting pages]

Beauty is subjective. No surprise there.

[SomaticDreams]

Beauty is subjective. No surprise there.

Is it? =)

Is a landscape of earth, beautiful in the same way another human being is?

What constitutes the beauty of an object? A person? A thing? A place? A time? An experience?

Are they the same? Is there anything that ties them together?

[Ruth]

I had a discussion this week with my daughter about the difference between external beauty and the beauty that shines out from inside someone, and which is the more important beauty to cultivate? The discussion was precipitated by our discovery that a particular family member has not been invited to a wedding because he is short, overweight and "socially unacceptable". This same fellow, however, is EXTREMELY intelligent, is an accomlished pianist/musician (or was before he had a stroke last year), has college degrees, and would do anything to help anyone!

I've always looked at the eyes, then the actions to "judge" an individual's beauty.

[Plenum]

I had a discussion this week with my daughter about the difference between external beauty and the beauty that shines out from inside someone, and which is the more important beauty to cultivate?

Higaliq, mother of 3 and recognized medicine woman.

June 1916

- -

might not fit everyone's standard of beauty, but she certainly looks like a happy camper!

I want whatever happy pills she's on

[Diana]

The subject of human beauty is a disaster. Every time period has its standards, and our current standards are driven by Hollywood and Ad Agencies. It's completely out of control. (I have a friend who did photo retouching for Revlon among other companies, and I saw her portfolio--amazing before and afters).

No one can be manipulated by that kind of so-called beauty unless they buy into such superficial nonsense.

On the other hand, you work on your own "beauty." You can keep your body in shape, eat well, exercise your mind, and develop your spirit. Try to stay focused on your own path, and let the melodrama around you play with itself.

[Lavazza]

Very interesting posts here!

Just to play devils advocate for a second here- I've read that beauty is not entirely subjective. Asymmetry in the face for example could mean disease or bad genes from an evolutionary point of view. Thusly we have evolved a preference for symmetry in our mates, and is one of the things we see in someone as being 'beautiful'. Also the bias towards wide hips and large bosom, I'm guessing are related to child bearing /rearing abilities. (oddly a large chunk of western culture is interested in girls with boy like figures, E.g. runway models. Not sure why that is, or what it means for our future(!!))

Similarly women have a bias towards alpha males because they are considered as most likely able to provide protection and provide food while one is with child. All of this is subconscious of course.

[Plenum]

Just to play devils advocate for a second here- I've read that beauty is not entirely subjective. Asymmetry in the face for example could mean disease or bad genes from an evolutionary point of view. Thusly we have evolved a preference for symmetry in our mates, and is one of the things we see in someone as being 'beautiful'.

there is something in proportions that the human mind finds irresistable. and there is nothing wrong in that. Every guy (speaking from a guy's perspective) likes a pretty face.

I think what STS forces try to do is emphasise this physical aspect of an individual to the exclusion of all else. It becomes a matter of 'what you look like' rather than what your thoughts, your abilities, or talents.

they use this 'beauty aspect' as the sole measure of self esteem.

they want you to only see the surface aspects of a person (what they look like) to encourage the illusion of separation, rather than looking deeper, and seeing that on a soul level, we are all one.

it's an attempt to enforce a philosophical point that they have. (the idea of separation and the 'chosen ones')

that's my reading of what Ra said anyway.

[Meerie]

Eric your post made me think of the golden ratio:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
which seems to be considered a standard of beauty, applied in the arts for example (greek statues were modelled after that)
Your mentioning the interest in girls with boys figures made me LoL, my own personal interpretation is that society evolves towards androgyny, and the differences between the genders are getting less pronounced.
I sometimes have difficulty in deciding who is who... I see girls who look very much like boys, with short hair and thin hips, and guys with longer hair and broad hips, almost fit to be childrearing

[Plenum]

possibly relevant:

When Did Girls Start Wearing Pink?

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and some people go the opposite route to conventional beauty:



FISHMAUL / FISHMOUTH / ZYGZAG CHEEK STRETCHING

[Diana]

Very interesting posts here!

Just to play devils advocate for a second here- I've read that beauty is not entirely subjective. Asymmetry in the face for example could mean disease or bad genes from an evolutionary point of view. Thusly we have evolved a preference for symmetry in our mates, and is one of the things we see in someone as being 'beautiful'. Also the bias towards wide hips and large bosom, I'm guessing are related to child bearing /rearing abilities. (oddly a large chunk of western culture is interested in girls with boy like figures, E.g. runway models. Not sure why that is, or what it means for our future(!!))

Similarly women have a bias towards alpha males because they are considered as most likely able to provide protection and provide food while one is with child. All of this is subconscious of course.

Certainly this is true regarding the biological preferences for certain features and behaviors. These were appropriate in times when we were living like 2D creatures, operating from instinct for survival.

But we are 3D trying to reach 4D. Beauty is a desirable concept. But not when it is superficial, or based on obsolete limbic promptings. A sense of beauty is something that can be derived from balance of mind, body, spirit. It could be the higher octave of the description above of symmetry in the face and body.

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Plenum--yikes! I wouldn't call all those gages respecting the body, but perhaps this individual's "skin" agreed to it .

[zenmaster]

There is also the perspective of how one sees and feels about themselves and how this perception influences outward appearance. Regarding superficiality, there is a great deal of information in the first two 'chakras' which reflects inward balance outward to the world. What a person feels about themselves, their acceptance of overall completeness, is necessarily expressed one way or another. The catalyst created from the disparity between ultimate completeness and one's current working incompleteness applies to the 'superficial' levels as well, if it's personally compelling.

[BrownEye]

[Lavazza]

There is growing awareness of unrealistic beauty standards...

[Plenum]

the Tyranny of Looks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM4Xe6Dlp...E6v1NGQxug

I love how she says at the end that "models are some of the most physically insecure people on the planet".

[AnthroHeart]

omg, I found anthros so ridiculously good looking before, that I became easily controlled by negative beings through them. Now I don't hold any high praise for them. Just everyday, run of the mill beings they are.

[Jeremy]

That particular passage is what has held me back from goin back to the gym. I love going to the gym but as much as I say it's for functional purposes, which it really is considering the ever increasing weight of the population and how much I have to move them at work, I do notice my physique getting better and I'm afraid of the superficial tendencies that I once had returning by admiring my progress.

[Cyan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGeAMVK75T4 I believe this illustrates beauty to manipulate quite well