2009-05-23 - Thought Forms, Beings: Defined, 2012, The Harvest, Musicians
06-04-2009, 12:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-04-2009, 12:06 PM by Bring4th_Steve.)
2009-05-23 - Thought Forms, Beings: Defined, 2012, The Harvest, Musicians
14:01:27 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I am in the house, people! How are you, Steve, Monica and oguz?

14:01:49 ‹oguz› hi Carla

14:02:08 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Doing good! This week has been packed full with construction work! Trying to get my friend moved into a renovated house.

14:02:12 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey Bud! Bless you!

14:02:23 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Hi Everyone! We're having a powerfully wonderful thunderstorm here, so I might have to turn my computer off...will stick around as long as I can.

14:02:37 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› "Lift that bale...Tote that barge..." [high five icon]

14:03:05 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Monica, or let us know if you start smoking.. :-D

14:03:05 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, Monica, exciting! I hope your power stays on! [lightning icon]

14:03:42 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Let's see - Steve, when we left off last Saturday, we did not ahve time to get to Monica's last question, on thought forms. More

14:04:14 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So, Monica, what did you want to ask about that, and we can start off with that while y'all think about more questions - OK Steve?

14:04:53 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Sounds good!

14:04:53 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Yikes, now I forgot what it was...

14:05:52 ‹Bring4th_Steve› So perhaps I can kick off that topic with an easy question to open things up.

14:06:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› LOL, Monica. Why don't I just talk about thought forms a bit, and maybe you'll recall what your question was. Otherwise, we'll just move on after I've done with that. More

14:06:49 ‹Bring4th_Steve› I am curious about thought forms and the Law of Attraction. Basically thoughts, when thought over and over, given personal energy, becomes a physical manifestation, right? So basically Thought forms and Law of Attraction are the same?

14:06:53 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Plato, in his analogy of the cave, suggested that we in this world were experiencing a world of illusion and shadow. We might see a chair, but never the perfect chair, because that was an ideal. More

14:07:59 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› When the Confederation material talks about our energy bodies - the chakra system - they indicate that these chakra bodies or energy bodies - which are a kind of ever-flowing thought-form - are more real than our physical bodies. More

14:08:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› And often when Don would ask Ra about something to do with the UFO and paranormal phenomena, they would indicate that a certain type of Bigfoot was a thought form, or a Venusian Bell-craft-type UFO was a thought-form, etc. More

14:09:48 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› They were indicating that the thought-form was real in time/space, the metaphysical universe, but was sort of like a hologram in space/time, the physical universe, since it could blink in and out of manifestation, rather like a ghost. More

14:10:25 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So that's a thought-form, Monica. Does this nudge you into recalling what you were wondering about last week? Or shall we just move on to the next question?

14:11:01 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Carla, did you catch my question at 14:06:49?

14:11:27 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I looked at last week's chat and it was peels who mentioned thoughtforms and elementals...but I had another question too

14:11:46 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Nope - I'm looking at that now, Steve!

14:12:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, Steve, typing on law of Attraction and thought-forms -

14:13:13 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The Law of Attraction, as you said, is that what you think about becomes manifested in your world. Therefore, be careful to govern your habitual thoughts. More

14:14:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› If you think about the things you love, you change your manifested experience by attracting them into your experience. if you think about the things you fear, you bring them into manifestation in your experience. More

14:15:24 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› This has nothing to do with thought-forms, per se. A thought-form is a type of manifestation. There are all kinds of thought-forms, many of which you will never think of, either to fear them or love them, so you will not run into those! Or am I missing some vital point here? That is entirely possible!

14:16:46 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Yes, one more question on that. So if I were to, for instance (hypothetical question), think that my wife loves chocolate ice cream when she actually very much dislikes it, are my habitual thoughts of her liking chocolate ice-cream infringing upon her will? Or am I just inviting that experience into my life of her becoming accustomed to chocolate ice-cream and eventually liking it?

14:17:38 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I guess you could say that if you habitually think of a thought-form, say, the Holy Spirit, or your Guidance, you help that guidance system communicate with you because you are opening to it constantly. So prayer really does help a lot!

14:17:56 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Typing on your ice-cream question, Steve.

14:19:06 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, two things here. Firstly, if I were your wife, I would quickly correct your misapprehension, especially if you tried to palm off chocolate ice cream on me! So the infringement on her free will would be physical, and she would clear that up by refusing your gift of chocolate ice cream. More

14:20:04 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Secondly, you really cannot place a thought-form into someone else's head! Not unless you are extremely adept, which I do not believe you are - you're one of us - the great unwashed, right? More

14:20:40 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Totally unwashed... I don't even know if I have my "own" thought forms in my own head yet! ;-)

14:21:25 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I do not believe that it will influence your wife's preferences one bit if you habitually think she likes chocolate ice cream, no matter how hard you try to influence her. She is her own self, just as are you and all of us.

14:22:40 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› However, Steve, you do indeed have thought-forms wandering around in your own head. And it behooves all of us to become familiar with our hopes, dreams and fantasies, for that very reason - that what we habitually focus on we will draw towards us. Follow-up question, Steve?

14:21:47 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Nope, well said... I resonated very much with your answers.

14:22:06 ‹Bring4th_Steve› We are ready for our next question then.

14:22:11 ‹Bring4th_Steve› It comes from Monica:

14:22:17 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Monica asks: What exactly are planetary beings? I know that the Sun is home to many (5D?) beings...are planets & stars the physical bodies of SMC's? Or are they the physical bodies of beings who are, say, 3D/4D/5D whatever in a higher octave? Or am I way off here?

14:22:57 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, Monica, typing on that -

14:23:35 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› A planetary being is the living being that we foolishly think of as a non-alive planet, a rock in space. More

14:24:00 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Just as a sun-being is the living being that is a sun, rather than a non-aware fire in space. More

14:25:01 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The Sun of our solar system is a being - a sub-Logos! When the Creator thought his one, great original Thought, and spun into being the Creation we know and love, the suns were one of the orders of magnitude coming directly from that Thought - More

14:25:34 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› First galaxies, then sun systems, then planetary systems, then us - sub-sub-Logoi that we are. More

14:26:47 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So a planet or sun is not the same as the social memory complex which lives in the vicinity of a planet or sun. It is its own self. I have channeled Earth a couple of times, way back in the seventies, when I was not tuning to the highest and best, just glad of a contact! More

14:28:01 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But we were told by Ra that sixth-density love-making is fusion - sixth-density bodies being made of light - so 6-D beings go to the sun to make love and in their energy exchange, they give us sunlight! A lovely thought!

14:28:04 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› More

14:28:57 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But SMC's live within energy fields, which are like our energy bodies' energy fields - just larger. Follow-up, Monica?

14:29:25 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Yeah I love that about the 6D beings making love and creating sunlight...I mention it to my hubby whenever we're out in the sun and he makes jokes about the orgies going on in the Sun! (Good natured of course) more

14:30:04 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› (Oguz, "hubby" = "husband"Wink

14:30:23 ‹oguz› :>

14:30:48 ‹Bring4th_Monica› What I was getting at was: So suns (Logoi) start out as suns, rather than evolving into suns? Do planets evolve into suns? There are all sorts of changes in celestial bodies happening all the time...suns going supernova, etc. I'm trying to put this into the context of densities & octaves.

14:31:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Typing on that, Monica -

14:32:33 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› No, there is no evolution from planets to suns to galaxies. These beings are given their nature and purpose from the foundation of the creation and will move towards black holes as their parts of the infinite universe gain spiritual gravity and go through the densities. Does that get it, Monica?

14:34:25 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› (It is to be noted that I am reporting on what the Confederation says about cosmology rather than having objectively provable information to share.)

14:35:13 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey Aki! Blessings!

14:35:31 ‹Bring4th_Monica› So not all entities follow the same path thru the densities & octaves, then?

14:35:45 ‹Hkelukka› hi everyone, my net is incredibly terribly slow. is this more of an open chat today or are questions restricted to the Ask Carla section?

14:36:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The point is, we are part of the plan, small but holistic sparks of the divine. We are the Creator as much as our planet, star or galaxy!

14:36:34 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Hi Hkelukka! Please type all questions in the "Ask Carla here" tab. :-)

14:36:35 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica, typing on that -

14:37:09 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› There are some entities - parts of the Logos - which do not go through the densities. They include the abovementioned heavenly bodies, plus angels. More

14:37:51 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Some angels decide to stop being angels and can move into the evolution through the densities. Likewise, some humans, while discarnate, may decide to become angels. More

14:38:39 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But for the most part the active figures upon the stage of manifested experience are we humans, currently 3-D earthlings, soon to be 4-D earthligns or 3-D somewhere-else-lings. More

14:39:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It is our progress through the densities that gives the Creator his harvest of new experience and informs him more and more as to Who It is. Follow-up?

14:40:25 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Monica has a follow-up question that is related:

14:40:34 ‹Bring4th_Steve› How do 'fantasy' entities like unicorns, plant devas, fairies, gnomes, etc. fit into the densities? Are they evolving on a parallel track, in another octave? To say that they are just different species doesn't quite explain it, since other species (2D animals like cats &dogs) evolve into human...where do these beings fit in? You said dolphins&whales are higher, which I agree with...are the4D/5D living in 3D or what?

14:41:00 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey Monica - typing on this - it will take a while!

14:42:23 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Firstly, not all fantasy creatures are fantasies. the plant devas, fairies, nature spirits, gnomes, pixies, etc., - all those spirits expressed essences or energies of nature - are quite real and are - you guessed it - thought forms. They are very real, as anyone who has seen them can attest. More

14:44:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Now unicorns, dragons, sphinxes, griffins, etc., are part of mythological systems where imagination has created worlds that only vaguely interact with the physical world. Their domain does not have to do with nature, but with the imagination of humankind or to put it another way, the roots of human consciousness. More

14:44:52 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The nature spirits relate to the earth itself, and as the earth needs them to change, they may change. But they do not evolve through the densities. Their beingness is tied to the Earth. More

14:46:04 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The beings of mythology live within the minds and imaginations of those who resonate to those mythological systems. They are some of the beings created by human imagination in order to express our deeper feelings, both exalted and lower. That's why there are a vast array of them, both wonderful and awful and everything in between. More

14:47:09 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› There is only one octave of creation at a time. The octave we are in began in timelessness, and will end in timelessness at the end of seventh density. at the end of that period of timelessness, we will be in the first density of the next creation. More

14:48:02 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Don't these beings (unicorns, dragons, elves, angels, etc) have self-awareness and if so, don't they also evolve, learn from their experiences, change? How could then not? In popular culture, angels are often depicted as being jealous of humans, and lacking free will or a soul...which I find odd. If they are self-aware then they have a soul, right? And even if an entity started out as a thoughtform, couldn't it evolve if it became self-aware? sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to wrap my brain around this, and

14:48:22 ‹Bring4th_Monica› oops that got posted b4 it was done

14:49:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I personally think dolphins and whales are 3-D beings. I don't think the Confederation material has spoken on that. I figure they are beings from Atlantis which never chose to come back outta the oceans. (Good decision?) LOL

14:49:39 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So that wraps up my response to your question, Monica. Now let me look at what you just typed -

14:50:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, first on whether elves evolve -

14:51:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica, there is no need for nature spirits to evolve as we do. They are not part of the godhead principle from which the Creator learns more about itself. They are part of the energies of nature, which gives us the environment for our school of souls. More

14:52:25 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› As to angels being jealous of humans, it happens, which is why sometimes angels become humans. They then get to evolve rather than being apart of the loving kindness of the original Thought, expressed within the heaven worlds. They give that up so they can live, love and die -and do it again, and again, and again... (good decision? hmmmm!) More

14:53:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So the earth spirits and the mythological spirits do not have souls in the same way as do we. They are not incarnated. They do not live and die as we understand that. At least, this is my grasp of the situation! And it is only one view. But it is a logical one. More

14:54:36 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› this does not make such beings any less real. In a way they are far more 'real' than we, because they are much closer to the original Thought, and are aware of the whole scheme of creation. Do you have a further question, Monica?

14:54:50 ‹Hkelukka› Can I say something on that once you are done Carla?

14:56:11 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hk, it's ok with me if it's ok with Steve and Monica!

14:56:39 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Hkelukka, sure, go ahead this time, but please be sure to respond in the future in the Ask Carla Here tab. :-)

14:57:17 ‹Bring4th_Steve› (it helps keep the chats better organized for future readers!)

14:57:32 ‹Hkelukka› I would describe the difference between the evolution of angels, spirits and things of that nature and humans as the kind of difference in evolution between animals and plants, both evolve but in ways the other can never truly "comprehend" and in vastly different realms of existence.

14:57:40 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Very interesting...thanks, Carla!

14:57:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Good, AKi!

14:58:19 ‹Hkelukka› thats all I had to say, steve has my question

14:58:38 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Ok, so speaking of that! ;-D

14:58:45 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› No, AKi, I meant, good point! :->

14:58:45 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Hkelukka's question is:

14:58:55 ‹Bring4th_Steve› do you believe there are more than one creations/octaves existing simultaneously and if so is travel between them possible and if it is, under what terms and how (due to Ra mentioning 3rd D having a possibility with direct contact with intelligent infinity (8th))

14:59:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey Aki - that reminds me, I have never made it back to your PM to work with your ideas. Sorry about that - More

15:00:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Although anything to do with time/space allows paradoxes and mysteries which cannot be grasped, much less argued, I believe that as the Confederation represented the cosmology, there is one infinite series of creations, of which each creation is as a breath we might take. More

15:01:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So in that model, there is only one octave at a time, with the bare possibility of travel between octaves being mentioned by those of Ra. More

15:02:39 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› To move down several levels of magnitude, I believe that in our own way, each of us creates our own creation. What we forgive is forgiven. What we do not forgive is unforgiven. What we accept is real. What we do not accept remains unreal to us, no matter what "consensus reality" thinks. More

15:03:42 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So one who is aware of this power to create as a part of the Logos might indeed feel that he can create not only his own present experience but his own octave, More

15:05:01 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Without saying that this is wrong, I will say that it is mixing levels of magnitude in a way which does not seem to me to produce a better creation than the one in which we make our own version of the creation in our heads as we go, without feeling the need to break free from our place in the creation as a whole. Does that answer your query, AKi? While you are responding I will try to pick up some of these comments.

15:02:03 ‹oguz› I've heard there are 2 million densities

15:06:24 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Oguz, in an infinite universe there cannot be any particular number of densities. There can only be an infinite number of them. The only things that relate well to infinity are infinite itself and unity. Everything else has to do with numbering and has no part in infinity. L/L xxx

15:07:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Steve, have I missed any comments, now?

15:07:43 ‹Bring4th_Steve› No, Hkelukka has a follow up, but it is being typed out. :-)

15:07:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› (I apologize for my lousy typing!):p

15:25:26 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Carla, that's why you have me as an editor!

15:08:00 ‹Bring4th_Steve› ok, here is the follow-up:

15:08:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, Steve!

15:08:09 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Hkelukka says: I understand that my views are out of the ordinary. I do see the world as being divided into two aspects of creation, those who make the worlds others live in and those who live in the worlds the others make. To put it in a 4 element perspective, we have the moving (sts-sto entities) and that which it moves in (logos) and the angels and the like belong to the logos category but free travel from one to another is possible and each logos represents a "game" or a "room" in a larger illusion and travel between logos happens at either 3rd (choice, STs-Sto-Exit) or 7th (game over for that logos)...

15:09:40 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It is a chewy and interesting theory, but I can find no question. Gotta question on that, AKi?

15:10:51 ‹Hkelukka› well it was more of a theory which I would like your comment on and take it apart if you have any comments on it. It was sort of related to the travel between them and all that, sorry Big Grin

15:10:52 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Assuming that you want my opinion of that theory, let me have a go at that -

15:11:55 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Firstly, elements of your theory mesh well with the Confederation model, in that we are all Players of the Game of Life. In 3-D, for instance, as you say, we graduate from this Game by either choosing STO or STS and moving forward into 4-D positive or 4-D negative. More

15:12:51 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Also meshing well with the Confederation philosphy is the concept of "game over" at the point as 7-D where we are entities give upour identity in order to merge back into the one infinite Creator in its non-active mode. More

15:13:40 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› However when someone says the world can be divided into two... - I always look out for a special angle or, as Ra would say, distortion. More

15:14:59 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In your distortion you are focusing upon the magical personality (equals those who make the worlds...) and the unmagical, unawakened personality (equals those who live in the worlds ...). More

15:16:19 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Your distinction is valid and those of us who humbly set out to teach/learn are always trying to function as a kind of alarm clock, saying "Wake up, beloved ones! Your power is infinite! It is time to awaken to the worlds beyond this cultural box! More

15:18:03 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› However, I would say that this latter distinction of "the world is divided in two" is more helpful as a way to help people see their power than as a way to express the deeper truths which lie beyond the world as divided into any two-ness. In seeking to teach/learn at the highest level, I always hope to bring people into an awareness that all is one - that we are all one - that what we do to others, we are doing to ourselves. More

15:19:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I think this is a more powerful way to manifest the Law of One than to focus primarily on becoming the person who creates the universe in which others live. This is awfully quick, Aki, but that's basically what I think. Do you want to ask further or state further? :->

15:20:12 ‹Hkelukka› Writing, my slow net connection will take a moment:

15:24:28 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› After all the fast and wildly inacurrate typing I have done, AKi, I am glad to wait for your slow net connection a second or three! Whew! LOL

15:25:10 ‹Bring4th_Steve› It seems as though Hkelukka dropped out...

15:25:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› He probably had to go out and come back in again! Meanwhile, Steve, is there another question?

15:25:56 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Not at the moment, Carla.

15:26:09 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK!

15:26:46 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica, we covered an awful lot of ground in your queries. Do you want to look at anything more deeply than we did at first?

15:27:06 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, ednsubasi! Blessings, dear one!

15:27:49 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Ensubasi has a question:

15:28:07 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Endsubasi asks: some information says that the agents of the confederation (the travelers) will be taken to starships before earth changes. What does Carla think about that?

15:28:23 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Endsu, typing on that -

15:29:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I have seen these sources of information. Obviously, I cannot prove that what I feel to be true is so, and I do not wish to dishonor any source. But I personally feel that the Confederation would never do such a thing in the course of normal graduation and harvest. More

15:30:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Remember in the very beginning of the Ra contact, Don asked about the Harvest and Ra said "We do not concern ourselves with the conditions which bring about Harvest." They were stating clearly that as far as they were concerned, the normal mechanism of harvest would work perfectly well for Earth, with no extraordinary action needed. More

15:31:14 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› As we die and walk the steps of light, we will sort ourselves out into 4-D positive, 4-D negative and 3-D repeaters. More

15:31:53 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› and for many Wanderers, I would imagine that if their lives on Earth have been entirely successful, they will probably keep right on walking those steps back to their originating density. More

15:32:43 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Now, in the case of Mars, for instance, the Guardian, Yahweh, took up those souls of Mars which had been in the middle of their 3-D when they rendered their planet uninhabitable for 3-D life. More

15:33:52 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But they did not do it in space ships. they collected the souls - in their energy bodies - and shepherded them from the time/space planes of mars to the time/space planes of Earth, and then let these souls go through normal incarnation into the physical earth world. More

15:34:55 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I think that in reading channeling, it is always very important to follow your path of resonance. If you liked the thought that we would somehow be rescued from all this, then you are in the same boat with a lot of other people who also resonate to this idea. More

15:35:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But to me it just does not resonate, from knowing the Confederation a long time now, that they would infringe on our free will to that extent. I think they will be with us through it all, but they will allow things to go as they normally would. Do you have any further question there, Ends?

15:36:08 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Endsubasi is not here, so we will move onto the next question.

15:36:20 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Ensubasi asks: Carla, I received a message from my Higher self saying that " you will die in 2045". can it be true that date for us?

15:37:28 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Well, Ends, I would not presume to interpose my opinion between you and your higher self. However, let's look at the underlying assumption: free will versus kismet or fate. More

15:38:16 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› If we accept free will, then we would naturaly adapt that firm date to "My guidance feels there is a high probability/possibility vortex that I will pass from 3-D into larger life in 2045." More

15:38:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› if we adopt the model of fate or kismet or "it's written in the stars" then we say, "I will depart the fix outbound in 2045." More

15:39:20 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The nice thing about such questions is that, like the big "hoo ha" over 2012, that date will come and go, and then we will know. More

15:39:58 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I am not just being glib and dismissing your question, Ends. I am attempting to place the question in a realm outside fear. More

15:40:20 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The question itself is harmless. We all must die at some point, and 2045 is as good a point as any. More

15:41:19 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But if we focus on this prediction - "OMG, I'm gonna die in 2045!" We have taken our focus away from the present moment, which remains at all times our arena for playing the Game of Life. See what I'm saying?

15:41:34 ‹oguz› yes

15:41:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Oh right - Ends is gone! I guess he can look up my response! Steve, do we have another question? I saw AKi was back for a minute, then gone again!

15:43:51 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Yes, we have another question,

15:43:57 ‹Bring4th_Steve› but I need to copy it in 3 parts.. One sec!

15:44:13 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Monica Asks: Carla, I'd be interested in your comments regarding a discussion we've been having in the 'David Wilcock' thread which pertains to the 'sudden vs gradual' shift. In order to ask my question, I need to post an excerpt from that discussion, so this will be posted in several pieces.

15:44:29 ‹Bring4th_Steve› 20.26 Questioner: I make the assumption that if maximum efficiency had been achieved in this 25,000 year period the entities would have polarized either toward service to self or toward service to others, one or the other. This would have made them harvestable at the end of that 25,000 year period in which case they would have had to move to another planet because this one would have been third density for 50,000 more years. Is this correct? Ra: I am Ra. Let us untangle your assumption which is complex and correct in part.

15:44:43 ‹Bring4th_Steve› The original desire is that entities seek and become one. If entities can do this in a moment, they may go forward in a moment, and, thus, were this to occur in a major cycle, indeed, the third-density planet would be vacated at the end of that cycle. It is, however, more towards the median or mean, shall we say, of third-density developments throughout the one infinite universe that there be a small harvest after the first cycle; the remainder having significantly polarized, the second cycle having a much larger harvest; the remainder being even more significantly polarized, the third cycle c

15:44:55 ‹Bring4th_Steve› My response to this, in presenting my view about gradual shift: OK, so what do we have here? If everyone became harvestable in a moment in a major cycle, the 3D planet would be vacated. So, if that happens in 2012, if our entire planet harmonizes in one fine moment of inspiration, being that it's the end of a major cycle, then yes, we'll all go poof and the planet will be vacated. That's pretty clear, imho [in my humble opinion]. Now, aside from that, imo remote, possibility, what happens if we don't all harmonize in one fine strong moment of inspiration? We then move to Plan B, also described by Ra in the above

15:45:09 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Then, we are back to the question: If the harvest is complete, which presumably it would be, is the planet then vacated? And is that completion instantaneous? How does this reconcile with the other quote in which Ra states that 4D bodies start manifesting through the normal process of evolution? I just don't think anyone can conclusively state either position, as there are valid interpretations on both sides. Being that this is regarding a future event, I doubt that Ra would want to state it so clearly that there is no room for doubt. That would be a violation of Free Will, would it not?

15:45:22 ‹Bring4th_Steve› The other member's response, in favor of sudden shift: Basically you're assuming that harmonization equals harvest. I do not think this is the case. Harmonization precedes harvest. And only those harmonized can be harvested to 4d the rest is "harvested" to 3d. The harvest nexus is at a specific point in time those ready before that time have to wait or in rare cases harvest themselves.

15:45:26 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Whew!

15:46:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, Steve, typing on that.

15:46:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› gads, my typing is down, down, down! LOL!

15:47:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, back to the question. The basic question is a large difference of positions, and I am in the minority among channelers of our age. More

15:48:09 ‹Bring4th_Monica› (I hope this doesn't get double-posted, but here is my actual question) Me: I already know Q'uo's recent updates on this...but my question is: That one line about the end of the major cycle...is often used to justify belief in sudden shift...since, if everyone is harvested, why would we still need 3D reality at all? I realize we are almost out of time, so if this is too long to even begin, that's ok.

15:48:12 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Most feel - and there are quotes to back them up from reputable sources - that on 12-21-2012 the 3-D world will wipe out in the twinkling of an eye. More

15:49:05 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› They feel that then we will all be harvested and go to 4-D STO on Earth or STS elsewhere or 3-D repeat elsewhere. More

15:49:47 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It is interesting to note that in many cases these same channels feel that they have a role to play here, sort of a tour guide of the harvest. More

15:50:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› My opinion is other than this, and I do not defend it except to say that this resonates to me. More

15:50:43 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I feel that - and I could offer good quotes here too - we are already being harvested, and have been being harvested when we die a natural physical death here on Earth for some time. More

15:51:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The Confederation suggests that in many cases these recent graduates are choosing to incarnate as wanderers from 4-D Earth to 3-D Earth to help with the harvest for the rest of us. More

15:52:09 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I feel that this will continue happening right on through 2012 and for some years to come, until there are no more souls who wish to incarnate as dual-activated wanderers in 3-D Earth. More

15:52:49 ‹Hkelukka› I'm back again, I didn't have any more questions, just that I did not mean "aware" and "not-aware", We can discuss it more via PM if you get around to it, not enough time now, thank you for your answer Carla Smile

15:53:43 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› meanwhile, the clock is ticking away for Earth herself - our beloved mother Gaia. The switch from 3-D to 4-D as the dominant density will be quite specific. But it is a change which will only manifest in the time/space portions of our creation. In physical terms, it is a non-event. This is my opinion. Further questions, Monica?

15:54:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Aki, many thanks - I will get to your letter, I promise! Things fall off the back of the wagon as I respond to priorities!

15:55:26 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Does anyone have a last question? Please post it in the Ask Carla Here tab.

15:56:00 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› There is a gathering coming up at the end of this coming week - our fifth Channeling Intensive. So wish us all a good Gathering! We are also looking forward to a Gathering at the end of summer, our annual Homecoming.

15:56:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I hope you guys will consider coming! we'll be asking participants to come with a topic to discuss or present, so it should be all kinds of fun. More

15:56:34 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I timed out...

15:56:51 ‹Bring4th_Monica› so it boils down to what is the definition of 'harvest being completed' in this quote small harvest after the first cycle; the remainder having significantly polarized, the second cycle having a much larger harvest; the remainder being even more significantly polarized, the third cycle culminating the process and the harvest being completed.

15:56:52 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Carla, do you have time for one last question?

15:57:05 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› We did it this way last year, and it was really a lot of fun, as each attendee brought up the subject that loomed largest in his or her process. More

15:57:07 ‹Hkelukka› *hugs* I hope you all have a wonderful channeling session, when time and finances permit I will attempt to join, as far as I am allowed Smile

15:57:12 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Steve, shoot!

15:57:29 ‹Bring4th_Steve› Ok, Kuru asks: what do you think about musıcıans? Can we say musıc is new religion?

15:57:58 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I'll go a little long here, because Monica still had a follow-up, which I will take first. More

15:58:41 ‹Bring4th_Monica› thanks Carla...I lost internet so it took awhile to show up

15:58:59 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica - our planet did not follow the norm. We had zero harvest after the first minor cycle, and only 150 or so graduated at the end of the second minor cycle. So the confederation "became concerned." More

15:59:40 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› They have been interacting with those of Earth, first in the physical and for the last couple of thousand years in the metaphysical sense only, trying to increase the Harvest. More

16:01:04 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But the harvest remains the same, regardless of our being able to graduate at this time. The situation is that Earth's 3-D is exhausted. There is no more 3-D energy to assist souls by giving them the environment in which to enjoy a Density of Choice. So those who need to repeat will go elsewhere. More

16:03:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Whether or not any souls remain here after 2012, it will be 4-D which is the dominant or acting density on Earth. The denizens of 4-D will also have 1, 2, and 3-D, just as we presently enjoy 1-D and 2-D while in 3-D. Does that make sense, Monica? I will stay if you want to work with it further. Now for Kuru's question about music.

16:03:22 ‹kuruuzum› ok

16:04:34 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Kuru, to many, music IS their religion ("I'm just a singer in a rock and roll band" - MoodyBlues). A religion is a cosmology or theology which has a certain structure into which people fit and by which people understand their lives and know what the right thing is to do. Therefore, virtually any system of thought can become a religion. More

16:05:40 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› However, while I am a mystical Christian and go to church every Sunday of this world - except during gatherings and teaching weekends or when I am sick in bed - I am very cautious about encouraging religion in others, for the reason that it has seemed, throughout history, to have undesirable side-effects. More

16:06:13 ‹kuruuzum› it contains spritual energy doesnt it? symbolic wisdom..

16:06:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› People engaged in religion seem to favor a "me versus them" mind-set, where we have the one and only truth, and our job is to talk others into thinking just like us. More

16:06:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› this has resulted in a woefully full budget of wars and empire. More

16:07:48 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Rather, I would say that music is one of several ways in which those who have opened the gateway to intelligent infinity bring back from those realms inspiration which exceeds the power of pure words. More

16:09:15 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In song, the voice is used, the ultimate wind instrument! And each sound is sacred! There is something about the human voice that holds tremendous amount of spiritual energy. Like poetry and art, music is a way to pump into manifestation far more spiritual energy than the words themselves would hold. Follow-up on that, Kuru?

16:09:25 ‹kuruuzum› I think musıcıans are a kınd of channel

16:09:39 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Yes, Kuru! I do too! More

16:09:40 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I have my last followup ready whenever

16:10:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I had a source one time, when I was channeling more types of contacts, named Nona and all she liked to do was sing. We had some healings in the group from her singing. OK, if Kuru is done, I'd like your last follow-up, Monica! This has been one dandy session!

16:11:01 ‹kuruuzum› thank u Carla

16:11:11 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Yes, it has been a great session! Deep stuff...Oh wow, you just really cleared up something that had had been eluding me...thanks! So after 2012 it will be 4D here...and if we are attuned to that, we will just live out our lives normally, but with 4D light instead of 3D light...so there's no need for us to all go poof...? Am I understanding you correctly? I think the confusion seems to be that people want to hang on to 3D reality. Thanks for being willing to stay to finish this...I appreciate that alot!!!

16:11:34 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Typing on that, Monica -

16:16:52 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey guys, I timed out while I was typoing and lost the answer. bear with me!

16:17:56 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Yes, you have it pretty much right, Monica. It will be 4-D after 2012. That's why I wrote 101 - to encourage people to do their Choice before then, since at that point the last of the 3-D light which is the proper environment for making the Choice will be gone. More

16:18:39 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› No one will incarnate into 3-D then because with the 4-D interpenetrating light, all the "stuff" of 3-D will be hitting them squarely upside the head - too intense, man, too intense! More

16:19:17 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The only people incarnating now are dual-activated bodies who have agendas having to do with alleviating karma by restoring 3-D earth and giving her love. More

16:19:43 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So 2012 will just come and go as far as we on 3-D earth can know. Follow up to that, Monica?

16:20:09 ‹endsubasi› Dear lightbeings I go out of internet cafe. Be with love and light of the confederation

16:20:25 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I think the whole debate (gradual vs instant) focuses too much on the physical...if we attune to 4D, the transition should be pretty much seamless, like when we are dreaming it seems physical. so 4D will be physical to us as well, right?

16:20:36 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Farewell and love/light to you, Ends!

16:20:37 ‹endsubasi› be with love and light of the confederation and Ra beings

16:21:00 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica, typing on that -

16:21:06 ‹endsubasi› thanks very much Carla I sent you all love and light

16:21:46 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Not exactly - we will be experiencing heavy interpenetrating vibes of truth and clarity from 4-D, which we will be interpreting in 3-D ways. We'll still be in 3-D as it is all our physical bodies are wired for. More

16:23:10 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But the transition should indeed be painless for us who have not yet graduated, in that we will not be able to see any difference here. We will still be dreaming the 3-D dream. we don't get to dream the 4-D dream until we exit this physical body, move through the graduation process and incarnate into 4-D earth. Follow-up?

16:24:09 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Sorry for being so dense on this...I'm having a hard time with it, especially when the 'instant shift' folks make a really good case for going poof...so if we still get to dream the 3D dream, then 3D still exists...they say 3D won't exist after 2012 because there is no longer any need for it. I guess that's the point I get stuck on.

16:24:20 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Assuming that we've covered that, I just want to thank you for a fascinating talk, and bid you a most loving farewell until fall! C U in September! You all have a wonderful summer! Much L/L xxxxxxxx - wol

16:24:36 ‹kuruuzum› [light bulb icon][heart icon]

16:24:40 ‹kuruuzum› taka care

16:24:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, Monica - let's hang in there a bit longer.

16:24:48 ‹oguz› (#)(f)

16:25:00 ‹Bring4th_Monica› If you're up for it...if you need to go, that's ok

16:26:09 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Yes, Monica, 3-D will still exist, just as 2-D and 1-D earth continued to exist after 3-D became the activated density. And in 4-D right now, the folks are watching us and enjoying our sincere attempts to know the self, accept the self and become the creator! More

16:27:04 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Let me say this, Monica - What does it really matter? If we all go poof in 2012, then it is going to be the biggest party the world has ever seen! ALL of us will be going forward at once! More

16:27:38 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› If not, then we will be going forward one at a time, as our physical deaths occur. In either case, within a century, this question will hold no interest. More

16:29:28 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Speaking as a metaphysical being, I cnnot see that it matters a lot who is right. We live and die here, then we go on in a certain way, as described by the Confederation, in our school of souls. So I feel we can be at peace with this issue. As I said earlier, in 2012, we will discover whose opinion held the most virtue! Meanwhile, it is for today, and this fragile, irreplaceable present moment, that we live and this only is the arena of the Game of Life! Follow-up, Monica?

16:29:32 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Ha, I think I've heard that line somewhere before ;-> Well I agree that in the big picture it doesn't matter, but in terms of planning for our futures (having kids, going to college, planning a career or retirement, etc.) it matters immensely.

16:30:16 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica, I beg to differ. If something is worth doing in terms of its being a good experience for a growing person, then it's good no matter what. More

16:31:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› You can say, well, if I know I am dying in 2012, I won't go to college, etc. But if college is a powerful experience, useful, offering good catalyst, then it remains a good decision whether or not we go poof! More

16:31:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I feel strongly that most of the hoo ha about 2012 is based on fear. And I would love to encourage people to let the fear go and move according to the promptings of spirit. More

16:32:35 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In the past, people who have felt that "it's all over" have been wrong. I expect we will find that this is true once again when we wake up on 12-22-2012 and greet the day! LOL!

16:32:50 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I love how you shift the focus away from an 'us vs them' mentality ie., avoid making a case for being 'right' and get back to the essence of what's important...really, it's like Christians debating about the rapture...It's really a waste of time when we/they could be out there doing something useful, like increasing the love/light on the planet by helping others etc. We have more important things to do, right?

16:33:14 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› RIGHT! Absolutely on the button!

16:33:40 ‹Bring4th_Monica› ok I feel better...thank you! [heart icon][heart icon]

16:34:36 ‹oguz› thank you Carla for everything

16:34:40 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I'm going to change my response to that debate from now on....I just had a paradigm shift. :>

16:34:47 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› You know, in 1000, many Christians gave away all they had and ran out into the desert to repent. Imagine their surprise when they were still here the next day, and poor with it! LOL! OK, time to let this one go! I love you, dear Monica and Oguz, Steve and Kuru! C U on the second Saturday in September! [heart icon]/[light bulb icon] xxx - wol

16:35:11 ‹kuruuzum› cya Smile [heart icon][light bulb icon]

16:35:32 ‹oguz› [heart icon][light bulb icon]

16:36:02 ‹Bring4th_Steve› ok!

16:36:30 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Yeah, they think "this time's different" because they have the Mayan calendar & astrology backing up the date, but I'm sure they had their reasons back in 1000 too...and in 1987, 1996, 2000, and all the other dates that have come and gone.

16:36:49 ‹Bring4th_Monica› [heart icon][light bulb icon] to everyone!

16:37:02 ‹oguz› [heart icon][light bulb icon]

16:37:13 ‹oguz› http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/charts/charts.html
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