Comparison of the two paths

[turtledude23]

What would an STO and STS adept have in common? What do people embarking on the paths have in common? Chaotikmind said that the STS equivalent of meditation is making the mind as noisy as possible.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[3DMonkey]

Do they not have everything in common?

common |ˈkämən|• belonging to, open to, or affecting the whole

7.15 Questioner: What is the density of the Orion group?
Ra: I am Ra. Like the Confederation, the densities of the mass consciousnesses which comprise that group are varied. There are a very few third density, a larger number of fourth density, a similarly large number of fifth density, and very few sixth-density entities comprising this organization. Their numbers are perhaps one-tenth ours at any point in the space/time continuum as the problem of spiritual entropy causes them to experience constant disintegration of their social memory complexes. Their power is the same as ours. The Law of One blinks neither at the light nor the darkness, but is available for service to others and service to self. However, service to others results in service to self, thus preserving and further harmonizing the distortions of those entities seeking intelligent infinity through these disciplines.

Those seeking intelligent infinity through the use of service to self create the same amount of power but, as we said, have constant difficulty because of the concept of separation which is implicit in the manifestations of the service to self which involve power over others. This weakens and eventually disintegrates [break into small parts] the energy collected by such mind/body/spirit complexes who call the Orion group and the social memory complexes which comprise the Orion group.

It should be noted, carefully pondered, and accepted, that the Law of One is available to any social memory complex which has decided to strive together for any seeking of purpose, be it service to others or service to self. The laws, which are the primal distortions of the Law of One, then are placed into operation and the illusion of space/time is used as a medium for the development of the results of those choices freely made. Thus all entities learn, no matter what they seek. All learn the same, some rapidly, some slowly.

[turtledude23]

Then so far we have established:
- Both paths have the same potential for power
- Both offer lessons

[drifting pages]

"In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One."

Check the bold text.

What do we gather from this ?

We are amusing ourselves by distorting in various ways

The distortion is not necessary (so if one lets go of the biases, one become ONE with everything again)

It is chosen as an alternative to just knowing the complete unity of thought which binds all.

-----------
What i get from this :
This reality that i live in is a way to perceive infinity.

It is not imperative to do things as they are "done" "here".

I am free to do as i will.

All is well

[Monica]

We're also told that 3D is the density of Choice.

[turtledude23]

"In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One."

Check the bold text.

What do we gather from this ?

We are amusing ourselves by distorting in various ways

The distortion is not necessary (so if one lets go of the biases, one become ONE with everything again)

It is chosen as an alternative to just knowing the complete unity of thought which binds all.

-----------
What i get from this :
This reality that i live in is a way to perceive infinity.

It is not imperative to do things as they are "done" "here".

I am free to do as i will.

All is well

While I find your answer helpful for my life in general, it doesn't help with my specific question.

[Monica]

What would an STO and STS adept have in common?

The activation of the higher chakras.

[drifting pages]

You asked what both have in common. Well both are biases and reflections of the same being neither are real in the end.

Both require willingness to go with a particular direction.

Yet both directions have enormous diversity in ways to be experienced.

[Confused]

What would an STO and STS adept have in common? What do people embarking on the paths have in common?

Both serve the One Infinite Creator faithfully, in their self-chosen modes.

That is the most common thing I can think of.

From 18.13 --

All serve the One Creator. There is nothing else to serve, for the Creator is all that there is. It is impossible not to serve the Creator. There are simply various distortions of this service.

I think adepts serve consciously, while those who are not aware of the lessons of evolution grope around till they come to the required turning point.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[zzhumphreyt]

I don't really post here much, and perhaps never -- can't remember. Just thought I'd share my thoughts on this.

The way I think about the two paths is to think about earthly life. We have what can be called "good" and "evil" people that would correlate to STO and STS. The people here are still people, humans. The only difference is the choices they choose. I think this touches on the part about Ra saying the power STO and STS generate being the same. So basically the two paths are similar in every way but the choice of how to use that power, how to conduct a life. Naturally the lives that result would be different, like I wouldn't expect a devout churchgoer to lust over the murder of someone else.

The only thing I can specifically think of that Ra said that was different was the activation of the green ray energy center. It's an implicit understanding on the STS path that there is separation, so something acknowledging oneness would be rejected.

Hope that helps.

[kycahi]

I go along with zz here. IMHO the paths are more similar than different. Each has a striving for the better and has certain incarnated and acquired talents. Those who choose STS do that not so much out of selfishness as for latching onto a STS leader who attracts them with promises of knowledge or power or a happy and fulfilled life. Most of these perhaps are gullible, yet a few look beyond those promises to the attractiveness of the leader's lifestyle.

The gullible are the ones who first become "enslaved" as Ra calls it, although along the way they may recognize clues and drop out. The greedier ones, I'll call them, want to get into the leader's "inner circle" and learn and achieve faster. The smart leader does teach them some stuff to keep them involved and tightens the controls, demanding proof of loyalty by recruiting followers. So in that way, the inner circle ones become the more enslaved. Still, though, they think they are doing great, growing and recruiting more happy followers.

Even the STS leader may see the role as doing right things, bringing more neophytes into the fold and spreading the love. They go down a slippery slope of deceiving here and there for the good of the group, demanding here and there instead of merely inspiring. Maybe it's only when they get into some kind of social memory complex and compare notes that they realize how off the track they have gotten, and maybe then they reinforce each other's selfishness because of the power they attained over the followers. Next they send information through misguided channels to 3D entities to keep the growth, replacing the many dropouts along the way.

So they don't think of themselves as greedy, nasty, baddies. They are doing their part to spread the green STS love, acquire some blue STS wisdom and, if they don't reverse their choice yet, turn a little indigo.

I don't see meditation by going within with silence as STO only. The blessing from that is probably neutral, at least until the student has made the Choice.

All this is pure speculation on my part, after picking up some hints about STS from Ra.

[Spectrum]

Is it the actions that speak for the entity or is there some deeper connectivity within the polarities?

While there is certainly congruence between an entity’s polarity and its actions, Ra had this interesting thing to say:

We shall simplify by concentrating upon what we consider to be the central
idea towards which you are striving. We have, many times now, spoken
about the relative importance of balancing as opposed to the relative
unimportance of maximal activation of each energy center. The reason is as
you have correctly surmised. Thusly the entity is concerned, if it be upon
the path of positive harvestability, with the regularizing of the various
energies of experience. Thus the most fragile entity may be more balanced
than one with extreme energy and activity in service-to-others due to the
fastidiousness with which the will is focused upon the use of experience in
knowing the self. The densities beyond your own give the minimally
balanced individual much time/space and space/time with which to
continue to refine these inner balances.

[Alkhemist]

What a wonderful thread! Please allow me to add my bit to this....

I am someone who was firmly on a STS path some years ago. Not only was I involved for many years in a STS magical organization, but I firmly believed at the time that I was on the "correct" path. Though I no longer have this opinion, this experience gave me an "inside view" of the psychology involved in treading the negative path, and has been extremely valuable in my overall quest to understand the Law of One.

I would say that there is little difference in the training of an STS and an STO magician, at least in my experience. The skills learned are the same, though the intention is quite different. For STSers, meditation is important in that control of the mind is necessary. The goal of meditation is not to make the mind chaotic (as this would greatly hamper one's ability to control their emotions, etc.), but rather calm and "centered." The self is viewed as divinity incarnate, so any and all methods of aggrandizing the self are seen as a good thing. From the STS point of view, being "selfish" by strengthening and honoring one's own inner divinity is the path to godhood.

As I said, I no longer travel the negative path. However, I have a GREAT respect for my brothers and sisters who still do. They are generally very powerful beings.

During my 9 years on the STS path, I learned that we do, indeed, have a divine spark within each of us. I credit the STS path with teaching me this, as well as how to care for myself (something I didn't learn in my original home), to be strong, courageous, and to be disciplined when necessary. (I was never good at that last one.) :-/

I left the STS path when my heart chakra opened. Compassion is considered an unnecessary waste of time to them (concentrating mostly on the three lower chakras), and I had a lot of "conversations" with them over this. Shortly after this was when I discovered the Ra material, which has been my "bible" for many years now.

I hope this helps to shed a little Light on this otherwise Dark subject!

[Unbound]

Sounds similar to my own sort of path!

[3DMonkey]

What a wonderful thread! Please allow me to add my bit to this....

I am someone who was firmly on a STS path some years ago. Not only was I involved for many years in a STS magical organization, but I firmly believed at the time that I was on the "correct" path. Though I no longer have this opinion, this experience gave me an "inside view" of the psychology involved in treading the negative path, and has been extremely valuable in my overall quest to understand the Law of One.

I would say that there is little difference in the training of an STS and an STO magician, at least in my experience. The skills learned are the same, though the intention is quite different. For STSers, meditation is important in that control of the mind is necessary. The goal of meditation is not to make the mind chaotic (as this would greatly hamper one's ability to control their emotions, etc.), but rather calm and "centered." The self is viewed as divinity incarnate, so any and all methods of aggrandizing the self are seen as a good thing. From the STS point of view, being "selfish" by strengthening and honoring one's own inner divinity is the path to godhood.

As I said, I no longer travel the negative path. However, I have a GREAT respect for my brothers and sisters who still do. They are generally very powerful beings.

During my 9 years on the STS path, I learned that we do, indeed, have a divine spark within each of us. I credit the STS path with teaching me this, as well as how to care for myself (something I didn't learn in my original home), to be strong, courageous, and to be disciplined when necessary. (I was never good at that last one.) :-/

I left the STS path when my heart chakra opened. Compassion is considered an unnecessary waste of time to them (concentrating mostly on the three lower chakras), and I had a lot of "conversations" with them over this. Shortly after this was when I discovered the Ra material, which has been my "bible" for many years now.

I hope this helps to shed a little Light on this otherwise Dark subject!

It sheds light alright, and intrigues me further. How is meditation on the STO path different? Both paths must acknowledge the self as the Creator, no?

I really am asking. I am not good at meditation, and chakras are only mysterious concepts to me.

[kycahi]

I am someone who was firmly on a STS path some years ago. Not only was I involved for many years in a STS magical organization, but I firmly believed at the time that I was on the "correct" path.

I would say that there is little difference in the training of an STS and an STO magician, at least in my experience. The skills learned are the same, though the intention is quite different. For STSers, meditation is important in that control of the mind is necessary. The goal of meditation is not to make the mind chaotic (as this would greatly hamper one's ability to control their emotions, etc.), but rather calm and "centered." The self is viewed as divinity incarnate, so any and all methods of aggrandizing the self are seen as a good thing. From the STS point of view, being "selfish" by strengthening and honoring one's own inner divinity is the path to godhood.

Thank you Alkhemist. This confirms what I had surmised from the bits Ra said about STS. I have a couple of questions after reading your post.

1. Were you ever tempted to switch back to STS? Do you miss anything?
   
2. When you discuss STO and Ra with STS friends, do they get your new point of view?
   

Thanks.

---

It sheds light alright, and intrigues me further. How is meditation on the STO path different? Both paths must acknowledge the self as the Creator, no?

I really am asking. I am not good at meditation, and chakras are only mysterious concepts to me.

IMHO, 3DM, the first step at being good at meditation is to stop thinking that you are not good at it. That did it for me.

As for the chakras, while I know that they exists, I don't dwell on them and their mysteries. I figure they are there for my benefit, just as any physical organ, so I let them do their work and try to stay out of their way.

I am eager to read Alkh's answers to your questions.

[Confused]

I left the STS path when my heart chakra opened

How did that happen, Alkhemist? Is it possible that you can share that?

[3DMonkey]

Sarcastic humor:

'Tell us Alkhemist! The dark side it so enchanting.' hahahahaha

[Spectrum]

Great post, Alkhemist.

[Tenet Nosce]

What would an STO and STS adept have in common? What do people embarking on the paths have in common? Chaotikmind said that the STS equivalent of meditation is making the mind as noisy as possible.

This study is as difficult as the one which we have described to you, but there are those with the perseverance to pursue the study just as you desire to pursue the difficult path of seeking to know in order to serve. The distortion lies in the effect that those who seek to serve the self are seen by the Law of One as precisely the same as those who seek to serve others, for are all not one? To serve yourself and to serve others is a dual method of saying the same thing, if you can understand the essence of the Law of One.

[3DMonkey]

There is nothing else which is of aid in demonstrating the original thought except your very being, and the distortions that come from the unexplained, inarticulate, or mystery-clad being are many. Thus, to attempt to discern and weave your way through as many group mind/body/spirit distortions as possible among your peoples in the course of your teaching is a very good effort to make. We can speak no more valiantly of your desire to serve.

Focus on the word Serve when contemplating paths. To serve self is giving your being over to what Self wants, yes? To serve others is giving your being over to what Other wants, yes?
Self is Other and Other is Self, yes? Serve Other as Self, or serve Self as Other?

be there, discern and weave, discern and weave, be there

[Unbound]

Questioner: Thank you. You have stated previously that the foundation of our present illusion is the concept of polarity. I would like to ask, since we have defined the two polarities as service-to-others and service-to-self, is there a more complete or eloquent or enlightening definition of these polarities or any more information that we don’t have at this time that you could give on the two ends of the poles that would give us a better insight into the nature of polarity itself?
Ra: I am Ra. It is unlikely that there is a more pithy or eloquent description of the polarities of third density than service-to-others and service-to-self due to the nature of the mind/body/spirit complexes’ distortions towards perceiving concepts relating to philosophy in terms of ethics or activity. However, we might consider the polarities using slightly variant terms. In this way a possible enrichment of insight might be achieved for some.

One might consider the polarities with the literal nature enjoyed by the physical polarity of the magnet. The negative and positive, with electrical characteristics, may be seen to be just as in the physical sense. It is to be noted in this context that it is quite impossible to judge the polarity of an act or an entity, just as it is impossible to judge the relative goodness of the negative and positive poles of the magnet.

Another method of viewing polarities might involve the concept of radiation/absorption. That which is positive is radiant; that which is negative is absorbent.

I think this is important to note when it comes to trying to perceive who exactly is of which polarity.

[3DMonkey]

a magnet with side A and side B

two people on each side 1,2 and 3,4

1 says, 'side A is better because it is touching me'
3 says, 'no, side B is better because it is touching me'

2 says, 'aw this side sucks, side B looks so better'
4 says, 'whatever, your side A is the desired side'

And so on and so forth

5 is aware and says, 'both sides are with me as one'

[turtledude23]

a magnet with side A and side B

two people on each side 1,2 and 3,4

1 says, 'side A is better because it is touching me'
3 says, 'no, side B is better because it is touching me'

2 says, 'aw this side sucks, side B looks so better'
4 says, 'whatever, your side A is the desired side'

And so on and so forth

5 is aware and says, 'both sides are with me as one'

Then the magnet goes to a bar after a long day of philosophizing, 6 sees him and says "that magnet is repulsive, yuck" but 7 says "that magnet is so attractive, I hope he buys me a drink", but when he turns around 6 and 7 change their minds. It's very hard for him to pick up women.



Anyways, my view of STS (and the world) changed alot after I read the posts by "The Insider" http://www.scribd.com/doc/403303/The-Rev...sider-2005 and "Hidden_Hand" http://home.comcast.net/~readingnews/Hidden_Hand.html this weekend. Who else has read these and what do you think of them in the context of this discussion? Both of them, but Hidden_Hand especially, sounded quite STO even though they were supposedly highly polarized towards STS. They both imply that they're wanderers, so perhaps they were 6D negative entities who needed to balance wisdom and compassion in order to integrate into a 6D positive social memory complex. I wonder how these "wandering elite" would be different from 3D native STS harvestable entities like Genghis Khan and native 3D STS adepts like Rasputin.

[hogey11]

This study is as difficult as the one which we have described to you, but there are those with the perseverance to pursue the study just as you desire to pursue the difficult path of seeking to know in order to serve. The distortion lies in the effect that those who seek to serve the self are seen by the Law of One as precisely the same as those who seek to serve others, for are all not one? To serve yourself and to serve others is a dual method of saying the same thing, if you can understand the essence of the Law of One.

I think the "essence" that Ra speaks of here is that when we follow our loves and talents and fulfill our place in the world, we end up providing for ourselves through our service to others. The perfect example in my life is cooking; I love cooking. Many people see it as a chore, while I see it as a hobby, creating this weird positive feedback loop where my wife gets (sometimes) delicious foods and I am just happy to have spent the time doing it. Through my service to her, I am fulfilled myself; covering both spectrums of STS/STO.

In relation to the core of the post, does this mean that STS adepts create STO behaviors inherently through their STS activities? By having huge amounts of money or control, they do give careers to huge amounts of people through their corporations and war machines. This ultimately may lead to a STS objective, but they ARE providing these people and their families with security. It can be argued both ways, at the end of the day; to serve oneself or to serve others correctly leads to the opposite being served as well.


I was thinking the things that are similar in my mind is an awareness factor. Both adepts know of the landscape and of the choices available. The lifestyle is conscious, which I think brings greater discernment when making decisions. I'd expect an STS entity to be very shrewd, while an STO would probably be more of a gambler (hopeful)...

@turtle, I found that much of what Hidden_Hand wrote resonated with myself, but many here are not fans of any entity proclaiming themselves as negative being and being trusted thereafter. For myself, I especially found his whole take on the 'sub-Logos soap opera' between Lucifer and Yahweh to be entertaining, as it is somewhat reinforced in some of the non-canonical writings from the Bible (On the Origin of the World). I figure even if the guy's making it all up - he's put some thought into it!

[Confused]

In the end, is there anything to be learned at all! What a simulacrum?

[turtledude23]

In the end, is there anything to be learned at all! What a simulacrum?

You could learn that there's nothing to learn.

[kycahi]

Learn what you feel the need to know and share it with others if they are interested. Meanwhile, experience lots of things, particularly with other people. Relate, relate, relate:exclamation: