Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
05-21-2021, 03:40 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-25-2021, 08:10 PM by Bring4th_Austin.)
#1
Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
Dear Bring4th Members,

L/L Research and the Community Stewardship Circle have decided to make a meaningful change to Bring4th that we believe is an important clarification of the scope and purpose of Bring4th. The most significant part of this change will be the removal of the Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum, and subsequently the implementation of a new guideline encouraging a lack of focus on political discussions surrounding current events, places, people, and conspiracy-oriented topics.

There are two essential reason for this change:

1) Based on an honest attempt at reflection on the part of L/L Research and the CSC, assessing our ability to reasonably moderate such discussion in a responsible and healthy way, we believe that the implications of allowing such discourse, unrestrained by the proper tools and orientation necessary to moderate it responsibly, presents the possibility for Bring4th to become a platform of potential harm in this arena.

2) In assessing the intended focus and purpose of Bring4th, we believe that discussion of this nature has tended to stray further away from the vision of Bring4th as a spiritual community of seekers, gathered to discuss this spiritual philosophy that is so meaningful to us, to be a loving home for weary wanderers, and to foster an atmosphere of compassion, care, study, and evolution.

This is not to say that discussion focused on politics is incompatible with the positive spiritual path, or that it is unimportant, or that it cannot be a rich source of catalyst and growth for a third-density seeker. Indeed, it is a incredibly important aspect of the tapestry of third-density life, and deserves its proper place in the heart and mind of any conscious seeker. The impetus for this change comes from examining Bring4th's place on the world wide web, where there are a seeming infinite number of platforms that foster political discussion from all different angles. Bring4th was never intended to serve as a platform within that space.

The Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum was originally created out of a desire to accommodate as broad of a range of discussion as possible, but we are recognizing the flaws in such an approach. This change is part of an eternal process of learning.

General political discussion will not be strictly prohibited. We understand how inextricably linked the realm politics is to nearly all facets of our lives. This shift is intended to help bring the focus of such discussions into spirit, allowing it to be linked to the process of spiritual evolution and the eternal truths of love and unity, instead of the controversial, polarizing, and murky details of politics. As such, political discussions will need to be made relevant to other forums and their intended focus, arising when relevant but remaining a backdrop to the ultimate intention of the forums and this community.

---

What does this mean for you and the forums?
Starting on June 4, the "Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events" subforum will be locked to new posts. It will remain archived and available to browse for users, but will not be available for participation. There will be explanations in the description and posted in the subforum informing users of the archival nature of the subforum and the change in policy regarding its content. It will remain locked and available for at least six months. At any point after six months, the CSC may revisit the question of removing the forum completely after assessing its place and effect on implementing the new policy.

Once the subforum is locked, the following guideline will be officially implemented:

Quote:Politics and Conspiracy Theories
The political realm and other aspects of the so-called "planetary game" are undeniably important to our current third-density illusion, and can be a great source of useful catalyst and lively discussion. However, due to the inherent difficulty of moderating such discussions effectively and responsibly, we ask that discussions of politics and conspiracies arise only when they are a natural outgrowth of the larger spiritual perspective that Bring4th is intended to cultivate. Please do not create threads or posts intended to focus only on political discussions surrounding current events, places, people, and conspiracy-oriented content. Threads or posts that cross this boundary are subject to removal.

We understand that this is a relatively drastic action that will result in the removal of many posts. We believe that such a change will aid in the general well-being of this community and aid in the tuning of these forums. Please understand that this will be a process of learning for the CSC and L/L Research, and the approach to implementing this policy may shift as we figure out the balance of our actions and intentions. It is also worth noting that while the CSC has helped to shape this policy, the idea was first discussed internally at L/L prior to the implementation of the CSC.

If you have any questions about these coming changes, please feel free to ask them here.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

With love and care,
L/L Research and the Community Stewardship Circle



Edit: After processing some feedback, L/L and the CSC have changed the outcome of the locked politics subforum.

"Starting on June 4, the 'Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events' subforum will be locked to new posts. It will remain archived and available to browse for users, but will not be available for participation. There will be explanations in the description and posted in the subforum informing users of the archival nature of the subforum and the change in policy regarding its content. It will remain locked and available for at least six months. At any point after six months, the CSC may revisit the question of removing the forum completely after assessing its place and effect on implementing the new policy."
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05-21-2021, 04:10 PM,
#2
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
Welcome to The Sorrow.
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05-21-2021, 04:35 PM,
#3
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-21-2021, 04:10 PM)LeiwoUnion Wrote:  Welcome to The Sorrow.

 
Quote:12.26 Questioner: Thank you. Well, you spoke of Wanderers. Who are Wanderers? Where do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Imagine, if you will, the sands of your shores. As countless as the grains of sand are the sources of intelligent infinity. When a social memory complex has achieved its complete understanding of its desire, it may conclude that its desire is service to others with the distortion towards reaching their hand, figuratively, to any entities who call for aid. These entities whom you may call the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow move towards this calling of sorrow. These entities are from all reaches of the infinite creation and are bound together by the desire to serve in this distortion.

  
May all beings be happy.
May all beings find peace.
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05-22-2021, 05:51 AM,
#4
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-21-2021, 03:40 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote:  Dear Bring4th Members,

L/L Research and the Community Stewardship Circle have decided to make a meaningful change to Bring4th that we believe is an important clarification of the scope and purpose of Bring4th. The most significant part of this change will be the removal of the Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum, and subsequently the implementation of a new guideline encouraging a lack of focus on political discussions surrounding current events, places, people, and conspiracy-oriented topics.

There are two essential reason for this change:

1) Based on an honest attempt at reflection on the part of L/L Research and the CSC, assessing our ability to reasonably moderate such discussion in a responsible and healthy way, we believe that the implications of allowing such discourse, unrestrained by the proper tools and orientation necessary to moderate it responsibly, presents the possibility for Bring4th to become a platform of potential harm in this arena.

2) In assessing the intended focus and purpose of Bring4th, we believe that discussion of this nature has tended to stray further away from the vision of Bring4th as a spiritual community of seekers, gathered to discuss this spiritual philosophy that is so meaningful to us, to be a loving home for weary wanderers, and to foster an atmosphere of compassion, care, study, and evolution.

This is not to say that discussion focused on politics is incompatible with the positive spiritual path, or that it is unimportant, or that it cannot be a rich source of catalyst and growth for a third-density seeker. Indeed, it is a incredibly important aspect of the tapestry of third-density life, and deserves its proper place in the heart and mind of any conscious seeker. The impetus for this change comes from examining Bring4th's place on the world wide web, where there are a seeming infinite number of platforms that foster political discussion from all different angles. Bring4th was never intended to serve as a platform within that space.

The Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum was originally created out of a desire to accommodate as broad of a range of discussion as possible, but we are recognizing the flaws in such an approach. This change is part of an eternal process of learning.

General political discussion will not be strictly prohibited. We understand how inextricably linked the realm politics is to nearly all facets of our lives. This shift is intended to help bring the focus of such discussions into spirit, allowing it to be linked to the process of spiritual evolution and the eternal truths of love and unity, instead of the controversial, polarizing, and murky details of politics. As such, political discussions will need to be made relevant to other forums and their intended focus, arising when relevant but remaining a backdrop to the ultimate intention of the forums and this community.

---

What does this mean for you and the forums?
Starting on June 4, the "Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events" subforum will be locked to new posts. At that time, if there are any threads or posts that you wish to retain for your personal use, you will have two more weeks to find and save them. After two weeks has elapsed (June 18), the forum will go completely offline, and all posts within that forum will be gone from Bring4th. If you need more time to save posts you would like to keep, let us know and we can find a way to work with you.

During the initial two weeks, a process will unfold where the forums are combed locating threads with a primary focus on political discussion and moved into the (soon to be removed) Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum.

At the end of this process, the following guideline will be officially implemented:


Quote:Politics and Conspiracy Theories
The political realm and other aspects of the so-called "planetary game" are undeniably important to our current third-density illusion, and can be a great source of useful catalyst and lively discussion. However, due to the inherent difficulty of moderating such discussions effectively and responsibly, we ask that discussions of politics and conspiracies arise only when they are a natural outgrowth of the larger spiritual perspective that Bring4th is intended to cultivate. Please do not create threads or posts intended to focus only on political discussions surrounding current events, places, people, and conspiracy-oriented content. Threads or posts that cross this boundary are subject to removal.

We understand that this is a relatively drastic action that will result in the removal of many posts. We believe that such a change will aid in the general well-being of this community and aid in the tuning of these forums. Please understand that this will be a process of learning for the CSC and L/L Research, and the approach to implementing this policy may shift as we figure out the balance of our actions and intentions. It is also worth noting that while the CSC has helped to shape this policy, the idea was first discussed internally at L/L prior to the implementation of the CSC.

If you have any questions about these coming changes, please feel free to ask them here.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

With love and care,
L/L Research and the Community Stewardship Circle

I support this decision 100%.
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05-22-2021, 05:34 PM,
#5
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
By the way, am I the only one extremely confused by what exactly will be removed forever?

Quote:During the initial two weeks, a process will unfold where the forums are combed locating threads with a primary focus on political discussion and moved into the (soon to be removed) Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum.

This quote makes it so that literally anything is technically under scrutiny and in danger of being removed. Is there a system, and if there is, what is it? I think we are eligible for transparency on this matter.

PS: This should probably be posted/replicated also in the forum in question; for visibility.
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05-23-2021, 08:36 AM,
#6
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
As long as the facets of the spiritual phenomenon and teachings which directly manifest in political and social issues can be discussed in that forum, that doesnt seem like a big change, however...

Quote:the forum will go completely offline, and all posts within that forum will be gone from Bring4th.

Yeah, thats not good. All the effort that people put into those discussions, along with very important spiritual knowledge related to polarization, change, society and even discussion of higher densities, will be gone.

Deleting the posts is hard to understand. Why is that being done. And, why should we keep putting effort to discussing things in this forum if they can at any time be removed for any reason.

Quote:We understand that this is a relatively drastic action that will result in the removal of many posts

Its not drastic. Its a bad idea and its disrespectful to everyone who participated in those threads.

Why not just rename that forum into the new political and social issues forum.
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05-23-2021, 11:55 AM,
#7
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
That’s an interesting and fascinating development, L/L Research!

That’s a very consequent step and perfectly aligned with what is happening in the world currently!

Right now, there is so much information, debate and discussion in the world being censored and muted by labelling it „conspiracy“.
This is ultimately a means of extreme control, control of information, discussion, opinion.

Personally, I prefer focussing on individual healing and development.
But politics and society are a collective manifestation ofthose individual themes, and as such worth being observed and discussed by those focused of the more collective aspect.

Sure,it is not useful to get lost in outer phenomena.

it personally I believe thatcher main reason why itis so dark on this planet on a political levels because so many choose to close their eyes and pretend itsnotthere.
It’s not a dark elite ruling this planet, is masses, billions of people, supporting it by their refusal to see it.
That’s how it works in my opinion.

And as such, to be be blunt open. I see this forum development playing an important role in the supporting the blindness and ultimately spreading of this darkness by exercising such extreme control!

On a personal it seems to be a preference anyway here to avoid personal issues and development and instead head for rather theoretical debates about stuff that ultimately has little relevance to an individuals actual development.

Would t it be a cool idea to deleterious „vaccine“ thread for example? Politics and conspiracy!

And quite a few more come to mind!

So, lets just leave everything behind that would actually have potential to evolve personally and collectively and instead focus on discussing what life in 29th density is like!

The fun aspect is, I believe you guys actually are under the impression that such measures would help polarize positive more effectively.
I find this step extremely questionable!

Someone expressed a while ago that he/she sees L/L Research and the forum as a lighthouse in these times.
I view it more and more as a distraction for people , to keep them in irrelevant pseudo-spiritual debates and so instead of healing spiritual evolution actually keeping people from really doing the work!

A conspiracy note:
Taking such a step a few weeks after a considerable percentage of LL Reasearch and the CSC have received the vaccine is an interesting coincidence.

In other words, that’s what those spiritual conspiracy guys predicted in their absurd phantasie...

I recommend moderating this post, too critical and fulfills the politics and conspiracy criteria....
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05-23-2021, 12:42 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-23-2021, 12:43 PM by rva_jeremy.)
#8
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
I understand the desire to eject interactions that revolve around transient, highly charged topics. I might even share that desire. Most of the talk here about politics -- and what passes for politics -- is not to my taste, to put it extremely mildly.

But the concern that actually governs how this topic and others like it are dealt with seems to have less to do with what's optimal for the group and seems much more about what's optimal for whomever finds themselves in charge here. There's a slight difference between those two concerns, right? The former is about cultivating the best possible energy exchanges for a community, recognizing that perfection is unlikely and finding forgiveness and acceptance in its stead; the latter is about making this forum comfortable and convenient for those who deem themselves in charge, regardless of how it impacts the rest of us.

I posted on another thread how, whenever people express a desire for the clear potential of this group to be realized, they are told why it can't happen. I stated an idea that I now realize was incomplete: for certain otherselves, this is an infinitely malleable platform for their own purposes and projects. I still find B4 valuable but I definitely do not put all my eggs in a basket that seems to be wantonly manipulated into a form safe for those who have ascribed authority to themselves -- and all the while, the desires of others without authority to come into greater unity and purpose are downplayed and trivialized.

I speak from personal, direct experience about not simply this episode but the way those in Anchorage deal with criticism and the possibility that our union in seeking is for all of us, not simply those who find themselves in the company pay. Sorry if that comes off harsh but I am reflecting how I find this move discordant with my understanding of the Law of One.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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05-23-2021, 01:13 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-23-2021, 02:35 PM by Patrick. Edit Reason: spelling )
#9
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-23-2021, 11:55 AM)Agua Wrote:  ...and instead head for rather theoretical debates about stuff that ultimately has little relevance to an individuals actual development...

My personal opinion is that such theoretical stuff is ultimately what has the most relevance to an individual's actual development.

I am not a healer such as yourself, but those whom I touch with that theoretical stuff are telling me that they are completely transformed by it.

Then the interest with transient events diminishes and we end up much better for it.

Many simply stop watching the news altogether and focus on working on their selves and on what is within their sphere of influence.

Confederation sources are adamant that this is a very skillful way of approaching the matter.

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1980/1980_0518.aspx Q`uo Wrote:...You need only to work upon yourself, so that you are a clear channel, unmoved by the ridiculousness of many situations, and in great humor when others find a situation quite grim. For you see, you dwell in the midst of a great cosmic joke and a great cosmic tragedy. And the ability to see both polarities of this truth equally is a very helpful one in dealing with yourself. And when you have dealt with this polarity within yourself, laughing at your grief and solemn in your joy, you may be of balanced help to others, for you may not then be touched by their difficulties to the point where you will be unable to respond in the way the Creator within you would respond...

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2007/2007_0211.aspx Q`uo Wrote:...In this regard we would suggest that the skillful choice is always to work on the self without regard for working with other entities. Service to others, working upon what you perceive needs to be done in the world, begins and ends within yourself. Until the point at which you are asked specific questions that you may answer in what you hope is a spiritually helpful manner, the work you do on yourself is sufficient and more than adequate in terms of how you may affect the consciousness of planet Earth. Change yourself and you change the world. That is how powerful you really are...

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1995/1995_0924.aspx Q`uo Wrote:...The focus upon the self in the means of balancing distortions and looking for ways to understand more of what is occurring within the self is an activity that may seem to some to be full of pride and ego, yet we would suggest that such a concentration of an entity’s attention upon its own self in that manner is a means by which a seeker grows, for it needs to be aware of the activity of intellect, of emotion, and of the spirit that moves within one’s own being. Yet that information is used only to temper the steel, shall we say, the character of the entity, and not to impose this character upon another...

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2001/2001_0204.aspx Q`uo Wrote:...Many times, it seems to each, that there is no way that one person can be of service, that one person’s light can make a difference. However, this instrument is fond of saying that in a dark place the light of one candle can be seen for quite a distance. Metaphysically, this is far more true even than the physical truth of candles and sight. Each of you makes a significant difference to the lightening of the planet as well as to the lightening of your soul. For when each of you does one, each of you is doing the other. To work on the self is to work on the world. Indeed, to work on the self is the most direct and effective way to work on the outer world in a metaphysical sense...

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2007/2007_1124.aspx Q`uo Wrote:...in that same general run of seekers there is often a prejudice against working on the self, for it seems selfish to be absorbed in the processes of the self. It is our opinion that it is in healing yourself that you heal the world. It is in learning to love yourself that you learn to love others. It is in finding compassion at last for yourself that you are finally able to have compassion on others. It is in blessing your own suffering by respecting it, honoring it, and forgiving it in yourself that you become able to behold the suffering of the world in its massive and almost infinite depth...
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05-23-2021, 02:18 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-23-2021, 02:21 PM by Bring4th_Austin.)
#10
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-22-2021, 05:34 PM)LeiwoUnion Wrote:  By the way, am I the only one extremely confused by what exactly will be removed forever?


Quote:During the initial two weeks, a process will unfold where the forums are combed locating threads with a primary focus on political discussion and moved into the (soon to be removed) Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum.

This quote makes it so that literally anything is technically under scrutiny and in danger of being removed. Is there a system, and if there is, what is it? I think we are eligible for transparency on this matter.

For this specific part of the process, the scope of post that will be moved will be very narrow. Essentially, if a post/thread/discussion is very limited to the realm of mundane details focusing on politics. I did some cursory scouting when we were developing this plan and feel like it will be a handful of threads or posts at most, most of them from years ago, before the politics subforum was created.

Though I understand the concern about the seeming arbitrary nature of this process. We're discussing potentials for making which threads are moved obvious.

The process of interpreting and moderating under the new guideline will not be so narrow, since it will be a more active process involving the CSC acting as stewards in interpreting the spirit of the guideline.



Quote:PS: This should probably be posted/replicated also in the forum in question; for visibility.

There is supposed to be a universal banner pointing to this announcement on all pages, but the function is bugged out. We're working on it. But in the meantime, a cross post would be a good idea. Thank you.
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05-23-2021, 02:29 PM,
#11
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
As much as I am into conspiracy theories and discussions about politics, I tend to agree with this decision and appreciate the desire to keep Bring4th a pure place of spiritual learning.
..........

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05-23-2021, 05:57 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-23-2021, 05:58 PM by Sacred Fool.)
#12
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-23-2021, 12:42 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  But the concern that actually governs how this topic and others like it are dealt with seems to have less to do with what's optimal for the group and seems much more about what's optimal for whomever finds themselves in charge here. There's a slight difference between those two concerns, right?
 
I guess we all tune in to this at different levels. 

For me, it's not about any of that, primarily.  I ask, What best serves the simple course which LLR has set for itself?  I would define that as channeling Confederation info and making that widely available. 
After that it gets a bit squishy, but the idea of letting the website become whatever a majority of users want it to be seems like an unfaithful choice, especially considering how the site is mainly used these days. 

What I mainly see is that people arrive and are thrilled that they can chat freely about spiritual topics, and then they do so, for the most part.  Thuswise the centrality of Confederation offerings has been displaced in favor of the linn of personal interests now pouring in.  Methinks the balance of things is off kiltre, but that this has nothing to do "whomever finds themselves in charge here."  I think it's a just how the currents are flowing at this time.  And I think the course should be corrected....somehow or other.

  
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05-24-2021, 01:33 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-24-2021, 01:35 AM by Bring4th_Austin.)
#13
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-23-2021, 12:42 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  But the concern that actually governs how this topic and others like it are dealt with seems to have less to do with what's optimal for the group and seems much more about what's optimal for whomever finds themselves in charge here. There's a slight difference between those two concerns, right? The former is about cultivating the best possible energy exchanges for a community, recognizing that perfection is unlikely and finding forgiveness and acceptance in its stead; the latter is about making this forum comfortable and convenient for those who deem themselves in charge, regardless of how it impacts the rest of us.

I posted on another thread how, whenever people express a desire for the clear potential of this group to be realized, they are told why it can't happen. I stated an idea that I now realize was incomplete: for certain otherselves, this is an infinitely malleable platform for their own purposes and projects. I still find B4 valuable but I definitely do not put all my eggs in a basket that seems to be wantonly manipulated into a form safe for those who have ascribed authority to themselves -- and all the while, the desires of others without authority to come into greater unity and purpose are downplayed and trivialized.

I speak from personal, direct experience about not simply this episode but the way those in Anchorage deal with criticism and the possibility that our union in seeking is for all of us, not simply those who find themselves in the company pay. Sorry if that comes off harsh but I am reflecting how I find this move discordant with my understanding of the Law of One.

I understand that the concerns you're talking about are from a broader perspective than just this particular policy shift, but I have to say that I'm having difficulty finding a way to address them as a relevant aspect of this decision. What you describe as the process for arriving at this decision, which makes some assertions about the intent behind this particular change, is simply not my experience in how it was developed and how it is being implemented. Over the past few months we have had a huge amount of feedback from the community, offered with great care and passion by members who care deeply about this community. While I personally didn't notice a universal voice speaking on behalf of Bring4th within the multitude of perspectives offered, there were some trends and themes that I felt had a resonance both with me and what I've personally imagined to be the spirit of Brign4th as a community. This decision is made with the best attempt to integrate the voices and apply them to how Bring4th is administered and stewarded. It's an honest-to-God attempt at bringing about what is optimal for the group, as you put it.

Of course that's not a negation of the fact that Bring4th is a community run by and organization involving people who must make decisions about how it is managed. But I would not describe my orientation, or the orientation of any person who "finds themselves in charge here," as searching for what is optimal for us. I feel and witness an intense desire to figure out what the right thing is to do for the community, but taking into account the realities of management and stewardship, and Bring4th's place among the larger online community. So it's difficult to really respond to concerns regarding the intention behind this decision. It was not a particularly easy decision to make and it isn't made lightly. When attempting to take action for the betterment of the community, we can never actually know if we're making the right decision. But I pray deeply that it is indeed a decision that results in a healthier community.
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05-24-2021, 01:44 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-24-2021, 05:29 AM by Louisabell. Edit Reason: Edited text for further clarification )
#14
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
I have appreciated being able to read the reflections of the community so far, and I for one would like to encourage this further. I may not contribute with words at times, but I read all your posts and try my best to carefully consider everything that is written. I will take this opportunity to share some of my own personal reflections.

I am sorry to hear of the sentiment shared here that stewards are seen to be operating in this community as though they believe themselves to be in charge, and have assigned themselves authority to carry out what best serves them individually. I do not see myself as operating as though I am in charge, or conducting the will of those who believe themselves to be in charge. The only real authority that I see in operation here is the collective agreement that we all share that is outlined in the community guidelines. My aim is to serve the community as best as I can by upholding that collective agreement. I think there is merit and value in doing so as a practice. I see myself as also needing to adhere to the guidelines, and would fully expect to be moderated by any community member if I acted outside those boundaries.

At the time that the CSC was coming together, a community wide survey was conducted, which you can see here. All the responses were carefully analyzed and read over many times. A statistical analysis was conducted, and if anyone wants to see the results themselves then they can make a request to the CSC to do so. One popular opinion that was held in a majority was the desire for enforcement of the guidelines. So again, as someone who believes herself to be in service to her community, my aim is to try to find solutions to enact such enforcement which also caters to as many voices here as possible.

And my voice is just one in many. There are six stewards all with a wide variety of perspectives, offering a spectrum which we hope reflects the various segments of this community. I think we fully recognize that we are not without fault, that we are not without personal bias which may cloud our judgement to a degree, and so we put forth the energy expenditure to make our decisions through consensus. I believe that this effort is crucial in maintaining checks and balances on ourselves.

***

I will also share some of my personal thoughts on this new guideline. As far as I can see, there are already clauses in the guidelines that would lead to the exclusion of certain topics of conversation in the spirit of intensifying the focus towards the core mission of Bring4th. One particular section I quote below:

Guidelines Wrote:4) Focus & Source Material
The metaphysical, new age, and alternative online forums on the net are diverse, popular, and numerous. In order to have worthwhile discussion that is beneficial to those who are interested in the material of L/L Research, we must restrict our focus to topics that relate to our core mission. The forums do attempt to accommodate a wide range of interest, but our principle aim is upon the philosophy articulated in the Law of One material, and the general work of L/L Research.

Members are expected to have read at least a certain amount of the Confederation philosophy, and to be here to share their experiences and discuss their thoughts on that basis. To get yourself better acquainted with the primary source material, please visit L/L Research’s online Library at http://www.llresearch.org/library.aspx.

And also this request made in the guidelines:

Guidelines Wrote:What does “on topic” mean? That your thread be in alignment with the intended purpose of the forum or sub-forum, that your posting be in alignment with the intended purpose of the thread, and that the bulk of your discussion on the Bring4th forums happens through the lens of the L/L Research material.

So, I see this new guideline as a further articulation and refinement of the spirit already expressed in the current guidelines. This new guideline would serve to make those boundaries clearer, both for setting expectations for community members and for the moderation of such discussion.

Moreover, allow me to quote the request which is made in the Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events sub-forum specific guidelines:

Quote:We ask only that you steer the discussion so as to include the highest realizations of your spirituality and focus on the spiritual implications of your responses to such issues, rather than allowing those issues to distract from our highest spiritual principles. Forget not who you really are, and link what you are discussing with your larger philosophy.

I see that the above request has not always been honored here, and instead there has been much discussion focused on arguing for the veracity of certain facts and figures of the political news of the day. If this request above was truly upheld, then I don't see how there needs to be a political sub-forum at all, for there are other sub-forums with their focus on metaphysical/spiritual explorations, or study in Confederation material. This is not to say that political information could not be brought up during the natural flow of discussion in order to elucidate a spiritual or philosophical perspective that is being explored. Additionally, this new guideline does not exclude political theory and the various ways that third-ray considerations assist us on our spiritual path as ethical community-based beings.

I can see how some members have seen Bring4th as a medium to offer service to others in the form of disseminating quality political news information in order to illuminate and offer a larger perspective to their audience. I am genuinely impressed with those who have specialized in this area and can perform such feats when they have the time to do so. I would never want to minimize the importance of such service. However we are still left with the consideration of how these discussions are to be moderated, for this is a moderated discussion forum afterall.

Essentially, I do not see Bring4th as a political news site, and as an acting mod, I do not assign myself the role as an arbiter of truth which can decide which political news facts will lead to the liberation of the human condition, versus those opinions which lead to the seemingly endless repetition of disinformation which is cycled over and over in our society. This includes the propagation of disinformation with the capacity to trigger our survival instincts with impressions that there are various immediate threats in our environment which must be fought or fled. So are we to just allow such a thing to occur here, as it occurs in many other places on the internet? Primum non nocere, first do no harm.  I would think that if one can not offer a service to another in a responsible way, in a way which doesn't cause harm by enabling further confirmation bias which only entrenches fear-based narratives, then I would think that the ethical choice would be to not offer such a service at all. I am speaking of the service of hosting political news discussion. And this is a regretful conclusion that I have come to myself, and I am sorry to hear that members may feel disrespect as a result of this announcement.

However, there is also the service of being. I can only see how a community which focuses on spiritual and philosophical discussion for the betterment and spiritual evolution of the self and humanity, while staying grounded in Confederation material, can only be a boon and great light to the world. Such a wonderful thing to offer to any weary seeker who wanders this way!

*The above are my personal viewpoints which I have come to myself. I am open to other perspectives and points of disagreement. Thank you all for your contributions. Heart
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05-24-2021, 05:41 AM,
#15
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-24-2021, 01:44 AM)Louisabell Wrote:  I have appreciated being able to read the reflections of the community so far, and I for one would like to encourage this further. I may not contribute with words at times, but I read all your posts and try my best to carefully consider everything that is written. I will take this opportunity to share some of my own personal reflections.

I am sorry to hear of the sentiment shared here that stewards are seen to be operating in this community as though they believe themselves to be in charge, and have assigned themselves authority to carry out what best serves them individually. I do not see myself as operating as though I am in charge, or conducting the will of those who believe themselves to be in charge. The only real authority that I see in operation here is the collective agreement that we all share that is outlined in the community guidelines. My aim is to serve the community as best as I can by upholding that collective agreement. I think there is merit and value in doing so as a practice. I see myself as also needing to adhere to the guidelines, and would fully expect to be moderated by any community member if I acted outside those boundaries.

At the time that the CSC was coming together, a community wide survey was conducted, which you can see here. All the responses were carefully analyzed and read over many times. A statistical analysis was conducted, and if anyone wants to see the results themselves then they can make a request to the CSC to do so. One popular opinion that was held in a majority was the desire for enforcement of the guidelines. So again, as someone who believes herself to be in service to her community, my aim is to try to find solutions to enact such enforcement which also caters to as many voices here as possible, even if it may not be a popular thing to do.

And my voice is just one in many. There are six stewards all with a wide variety of perspectives, offering a spectrum which we hope reflects the various segments of this community. I think we fully recognize that we are not without fault, that we are not without personal bias which may cloud our judgement to a degree, and so we put forth the energy expenditure to make our decisions through consensus. I believe that this effort is crucial in maintaining checks and balances on ourselves.

***

I will also share some of my personal thoughts on this new guideline. As far as I can see, there are already clauses in the guidelines that would lead to the exclusion of certain topics of conversation in the spirit of intensifying the focus towards the core mission of Bring4th. One particular section I quote below:


Guidelines Wrote:4) Focus & Source Material
The metaphysical, new age, and alternative online forums on the net are diverse, popular, and numerous. In order to have worthwhile discussion that is beneficial to those who are interested in the material of L/L Research, we must restrict our focus to topics that relate to our core mission. The forums do attempt to accommodate a wide range of interest, but our principle aim is upon the philosophy articulated in the Law of One material, and the general work of L/L Research.

Members are expected to have read at least a certain amount of the Confederation philosophy, and to be here to share their experiences and discuss their thoughts on that basis. To get yourself better acquainted with the primary source material, please visit L/L Research’s online Library at http://www.llresearch.org/library.aspx.

And also this request made in the guidelines:


Guidelines Wrote:What does “on topic” mean? That your thread be in alignment with the intended purpose of the forum or sub-forum, that your posting be in alignment with the intended purpose of the thread, and that the bulk of your discussion on the Bring4th forums happens through the lens of the L/L Research material.

So, I see this new guideline as a further articulation and refinement of the spirit already expressed in the current guidelines. This new guideline would serve to make those boundaries clearer, both for setting expectations for community members and for the moderation of such discussion.

Moreover, allow me to quote the request which is made in the Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events sub-forum specific guidelines:


Quote:We ask only that you steer the discussion so as to include the highest realizations of your spirituality and focus on the spiritual implications of your responses to such issues, rather than allowing those issues to distract from our highest spiritual principles. Forget not who you really are, and link what you are discussing with your larger philosophy.

I see that the above request has not always been honored here, and instead there has been much discussion focused on arguing for the veracity of certain facts and figures of the political news of the day. If this request above was truly upheld, then I don't see how there needs to be a political sub-forum at all, for there are other sub-forums with their focus on metaphysical/spiritual explorations, or study in Confederation material. This is not to say that political information could not be brought up during the natural flow of discussion in order to elucidate a spiritual or philosophical perspective that is being explored. Additionally, this new guideline does not exclude political theory and the various ways that third-ray considerations assist us on our spiritual path as ethical community-based beings.

I can see how some members have seen Bring4th as a medium to offer service to others in the form of disseminating quality political news information in order to illuminate and offer a larger perspective to their audience. I am genuinely impressed with those who have specialized in this area and can perform such feats when they have the time to do so. I would never want to minimize the importance of such service. However we are still left with the consideration of how these discussions are to be moderated, for this is a moderated discussion forum afterall.

Essentially, I do not see Bring4th as a political news site, and as an acting mod, I do not assign myself the role as an arbiter of truth which can decide which political news facts will lead to the liberation of the human condition, versus those opinions which lead to the seemingly endless repetition of disinformation which is cycled over and over in our society. This includes the propagation of disinformation with the capacity to trigger our survival instincts with impressions that there are various immediate threats in our environment which must be fought or fled. So are we to just allow such a thing to occur here, as it occurs in many other places on the internet? Primum non nocere, first do no harm.  I would think that if one can not offer a service to another in a responsible way, in a way which doesn't cause harm by enabling further confirmation bias which only entrenches fear-based narratives, then I would think that the ethical choice would be to not offer such a service at all. I am speaking of the service of hosting political news discussion. And this is a regretful conclusion that I have come to myself, and I am sorry to hear that members may feel disrespect as a result of this announcement.

However, there is also the service of being. I can only see how a community which focuses on spiritual and philosophical discussion for the betterment and spiritual evolution of the self and humanity, while staying grounded in Confederation material, can only be a boon and great light to the world. Such a wonderful thing to offer to any weary seeker who wanders this way!

*The above are my personal viewpoints which I have come to myself. I am open to other perspectives and points of disagreement. Thank you all for your contributions. Heart

Yes, but to delete everything forever? That is erasing a significant amount of service and potential service 'out of existence', not to mention history. If the forum feels embarrassing, then there is undealt catalyst. If there is fear that someone will be negatively impacted by the more unsavoury aspects of the forum, then there is undealt catalyst. If the wholeness of the forum feels 'tidier', better, or of 'higher concept' when the previously mentioned discussions have been deleted, then there is undealt catalyst. Get my drift? Deleting of anything ever wasn't the choice endorsing development or growth, as it promotes oblivion and takes people's opportunity for discernment away. Why? In fear of corruption? Is the forum in question deleted from the Earth section of the Akashic records, too? Of course not.

If the consensus is behind closing the sub-forum, then fine, but please reconsider on the deletion part. This is my understanding.
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05-24-2021, 07:07 AM,
#16
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-23-2021, 05:57 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  
(05-23-2021, 12:42 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  But the concern that actually governs how this topic and others like it are dealt with seems to have less to do with what's optimal for the group and seems much more about what's optimal for whomever finds themselves in charge here. There's a slight difference between those two concerns, right?
 
I guess we all tune in to this at different levels. 

For me, it's not about any of that, primarily.  I ask, What best serves the simple course which LLR has set for itself?  I would define that as channeling Confederation info and making that widely available. 
After that it gets a bit squishy, but the idea of letting the website become whatever a majority of users want it to be seems like an unfaithful choice, especially considering how the site is mainly used these days. 
  

I must have misunderstood your appeals for greater and more focused community here, then. I don't think it will ever get handed to us on a platter by the administration here. I don't really care at all about the politics topic; it's more how this episode reflects the inability of this community to find itself. I wish that instead of handwringing about the right executive unilateral action to take, folks at LLR could simply be better friends to their equal other selves here by helping us come into greater harmony instead of treating the community as something to be shaped and molded by them.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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05-24-2021, 07:44 AM,
#17
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
I apologize; I'm distracting from the central point of this thread. As you can tell, I have some unfinished business processing the hurt and pain that I and some of my friends have experienced in interacting with folks at LLR. I am sorry to have brought it here to muddy the waters.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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05-24-2021, 07:47 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-24-2021, 08:26 AM by the.)
#18
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-24-2021, 05:41 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote:  Yes, but to delete everything forever? That is erasing a significant amount of service and potential service 'out of existence', not to mention history. If the forum feels embarrassing, then there is undealt catalyst. If there is fear that someone will be negatively impacted by the more unsavoury aspects of the forum, then there is undealt catalyst. If the wholeness of the forum feels 'tidier', better, or of 'higher concept' when the previously mentioned discussions have been deleted, then there is undealt catalyst. Get my drift? Deleting of anything ever wasn't the choice endorsing development or growth, as it promotes oblivion and takes people's opportunity for discernment away. Why? In fear of corruption? Is the forum in question deleted from the Earth section of the Akashic records, too? Of course not.

If the consensus is behind closing the sub-forum, then fine, but please reconsider on the deletion part. This is my understanding.

my understanding is that this year/2021, everyone will show their true identity. it's not what they 'claimed' they are, but  their actions revealed the truth.

I think to follow the guideline, besides deleting the sub forum, they should do more: e.g. start with deleting contents in Ra material.

1. first delete Ra material book five, contents in book five has nothing to do with spiritual development. why talk about UFO in Ra material, why talk about government secretly build UFOs, those are conspiracy theories, they are nonsense. no one should ever talk about it and read about it and know it. :-)

2. then they should remove anything related with Orion group, related with STS group. why talk about those negative things, that's not light, that's distraction. if people talk too much STS group, it will shed light to those people, STS people won't be able to hide anymore.

3. delete everything and anything related with disclosure in Ra material. Ra material disclosed too much dark stuff, those should be kept in the darkness. should never come to light. otherwise too many people will wake up, and that will be the end of this 3D game. lol

above is not judgment, it's just my observation and my thinking following the forum guideline.

last but not least, we live in a duality world. so everything is separated and people are comfortable with that. for a log time, spirituality and science are totally separated, and now people just begin to realize they're just different sides of same coin.

same as spirituality and politics/truth. outside world is a reflection of inside world. after consciousness expanded/ascended, it's naturally to take action, to reveal the truth, and further expand the consciousness. and of course, the 'other' side of the gamer tried to stop the process through numerous ways. one way is to prevent truth from spreading. e.g. delete content. just thinking about all those information deleted by facebook etc.

also, there're many times people's fear are included in the 'truth'. so the process of facing the truth is also a process to dissolve the fear in people's minds. in the early state of spiritual development, there're reasons not do deal with it, but once consciousness started expansion, no more excuse to bypass this lesson, and everyone need to face the truth, face their inner fear, sooner or later.

I know everything already went well, human already won/ascended. we are just experience our success here now and there's nothing to worry about it. so I'm just watching the show here, watching the endgame...take actions from heart....
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05-24-2021, 08:29 AM,
#19
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-24-2021, 01:44 AM)Louisabell Wrote:  I have appreciated being able to read the reflections of the community so far, and I for one would like to encourage this further.

...

Essentially, I do not see Bring4th as a political news site, and as an acting mod, I do not assign myself the role as an arbiter of truth which can decide which political news facts lead to the liberation of the human condition, versus those opinions which lead to the seemingly endless repetition of disinformation which is cycled over and over in our society.

...

This includes the propagation of disinformation with the capacity to trigger our survival instincts with impressions that there are various immediate threats in our environment which must be fought or fled. So are we to just allow such a thing to occur here, as it occurs in many other places on the internet?

louisabell,
to give you a feedback on that post:

If you have read some of my posts over the years, you may have noticed that I am not into discussing politics or conspiracies really, instead I focus on personal healing and development.

I found it important howeve to have a section for that, since, as I mentioned above, I view political developments as a collective outplay of those personal themes.

What really concerns me about that new „direction“ here and especially about your comment, are a few (for me) red flags:

conspiracy
desinformation
spreading fear

You might or might not be aware of it, but at this moment in our world there is a development that is suppressing continuously more information that doesn’t follow an official narrative by labeling it „conspiracy“ and „desinformation“!

This is mainly about the whole Covid and Vaccine sitiation.
There is one thread in particular, the one about the vaccine, in which the attempt has been made to „s*** down“ the sharing of information and the discussion by using exactly the same method „fear spreading, desinformation, conspiracy“.

In the thread, it expressed personal opinions and so was perfectly fine.
Now making that a general official guideline would be a totally different thing.

From my perspective, that would be definetely a manipulation and suppressing of information that don’t follow a certain narrative.

This deeply concerns me!

So I am asking you for clarification on that!

I would also like to ask:

Austin
Jim
Gary
Aion
Patrick
Diana
Flofrog

Do you personally as well as a L/L Research / CSC member support such a decision and direction?
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05-24-2021, 09:05 AM,
#20
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-21-2021, 03:40 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote:  Dear Bring4th Members,

L/L Research and the Community Stewardship Circle have decided to make a meaningful change to Bring4th that we believe is an important clarification of the scope and purpose of Bring4th. The most significant part of this change will be the removal of the Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum, and subsequently the implementation of a new guideline encouraging a lack of focus on political discussions surrounding current events, places, people, and conspiracy-oriented topics.

There are two essential reason for this change:

1) Based on an honest attempt at reflection on the part of L/L Research and the CSC, assessing our ability to reasonably moderate such discussion in a responsible and healthy way, we believe that the implications of allowing such discourse, unrestrained by the proper tools and orientation necessary to moderate it responsibly, presents the possibility for Bring4th to become a platform of potential harm in this arena.

2) In assessing the intended focus and purpose of Bring4th, we believe that discussion of this nature has tended to stray further away from the vision of Bring4th as a spiritual community of seekers, gathered to discuss this spiritual philosophy that is so meaningful to us, to be a loving home for weary wanderers, and to foster an atmosphere of compassion, care, study, and evolution.

This is not to say that discussion focused on politics is incompatible with the positive spiritual path, or that it is unimportant, or that it cannot be a rich source of catalyst and growth for a third-density seeker. Indeed, it is a incredibly important aspect of the tapestry of third-density life, and deserves its proper place in the heart and mind of any conscious seeker. The impetus for this change comes from examining Bring4th's place on the world wide web, where there are a seeming infinite number of platforms that foster political discussion from all different angles. Bring4th was never intended to serve as a platform within that space.

The Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum was originally created out of a desire to accommodate as broad of a range of discussion as possible, but we are recognizing the flaws in such an approach. This change is part of an eternal process of learning.

General political discussion will not be strictly prohibited. We understand how inextricably linked the realm politics is to nearly all facets of our lives. This shift is intended to help bring the focus of such discussions into spirit, allowing it to be linked to the process of spiritual evolution and the eternal truths of love and unity, instead of the controversial, polarizing, and murky details of politics. As such, political discussions will need to be made relevant to other forums and their intended focus, arising when relevant but remaining a backdrop to the ultimate intention of the forums and this community.

---

What does this mean for you and the forums?
Starting on June 4, the "Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events" subforum will be locked to new posts. At that time, if there are any threads or posts that you wish to retain for your personal use, you will have two more weeks to find and save them. After two weeks has elapsed (June 18), the forum will go completely offline, and all posts within that forum will be gone from Bring4th. If you need more time to save posts you would like to keep, let us know and we can find a way to work with you.

During the initial two weeks, a process will unfold where the forums are combed locating threads with a primary focus on political discussion and moved into the (soon to be removed) Spiritual Implications of Politics and Current Events subforum.

At the end of this process, the following guideline will be officially implemented:


Quote:Politics and Conspiracy Theories
The political realm and other aspects of the so-called "planetary game" are undeniably important to our current third-density illusion, and can be a great source of useful catalyst and lively discussion. However, due to the inherent difficulty of moderating such discussions effectively and responsibly, we ask that discussions of politics and conspiracies arise only when they are a natural outgrowth of the larger spiritual perspective that Bring4th is intended to cultivate. Please do not create threads or posts intended to focus only on political discussions surrounding current events, places, people, and conspiracy-oriented content. Threads or posts that cross this boundary are subject to removal.

We understand that this is a relatively drastic action that will result in the removal of many posts. We believe that such a change will aid in the general well-being of this community and aid in the tuning of these forums. Please understand that this will be a process of learning for the CSC and L/L Research, and the approach to implementing this policy may shift as we figure out the balance of our actions and intentions. It is also worth noting that while the CSC has helped to shape this policy, the idea was first discussed internally at L/L prior to the implementation of the CSC.

If you have any questions about these coming changes, please feel free to ask them here.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

With love and care,
L/L Research and the Community Stewardship Circle

Good call. If people want to argue politics, which is basically totally pointless now in my opinion, they can go to any social media site and have at it.
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05-24-2021, 09:16 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-24-2021, 09:18 AM by rva_jeremy.)
#21
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
For the record, Louisabell, I have no issue with the CSC whatsoever. As I and others did when we once freely offered our volunteer service to LLR, you are doing the best you can within the constraints imposed on you. I applaud the CSC's work in being supportive and communicative about their role. Everything I said is aimed that those higher in the pecking order than you!

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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05-24-2021, 09:19 AM,
#22
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-24-2021, 08:29 AM)Agua Wrote:  ...Do you personally as well as a [...] CSC member support such a decision and direction?

I do.

On the deleting of posts part, I am mostly neutral. I think we could lock that section and leave it read-only for a good while and revisit the deletion issue at a later time.

We are also discussing how we will handle future posts that falls in the gray area of this new guideline without taking them offline. I think we might have found a workable compromise.
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05-24-2021, 10:05 AM,
#23
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-24-2021, 08:29 AM)Agua Wrote:  
(05-24-2021, 01:44 AM)Louisabell Wrote:  I have appreciated being able to read the reflections of the community so far, and I for one would like to encourage this further.

...

Essentially, I do not see Bring4th as a political news site, and as an acting mod, I do not assign myself the role as an arbiter of truth which can decide which political news facts lead to the liberation of the human condition, versus those opinions which lead to the seemingly endless repetition of disinformation which is cycled over and over in our society.

...

This includes the propagation of disinformation with the capacity to trigger our survival instincts with impressions that there are various immediate threats in our environment which must be fought or fled. So are we to just allow such a thing to occur here, as it occurs in many other places on the internet?

louisabell,
to give you a feedback on that post:
...
What really concerns me about that new „direction“ here and especially about your comment, are a few (for me) red flags:

conspiracy
desinformation
spreading fear

You might or might not be aware of it, but at this moment in our world there is a development that is suppressing continuously more information that doesn’t follow an official narrative by labeling it „conspiracy“ and „desinformation“!
...
So I am asking you for clarification on that!

Hi Agua. Thanks for your feedback. It is late where I am right now so I can't address all your points, but I wanted to highlight something important that I was trying to express in my post. I am not making any value judgements on any narratives held by any member. This is whether the narrative is mainstream, official, alternative or fringe. There is the potential of disinformation in any of those categories. I absolutely do not intend to suppress one narrative in favour of another narrative.

The main point I was trying to make is that Bring4th is not intended to be a place to debate political news, as far as I interpret the already stated guidelines. I believe there are better equipped avenues to do so on other websites.
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05-24-2021, 10:15 AM,
#24
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
I think we have a wonderful selection of folks who volunteered to be CSC members and I don’t mind so much the direction LLR are heading, but I don’t feel anything should be deleted as far as whole threads go. You never know in the future there could still be a lot of information gleaned from the thread in question.
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05-24-2021, 10:48 AM,
#25
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-24-2021, 07:07 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  
(05-23-2021, 05:57 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  
(05-23-2021, 12:42 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  But the concern that actually governs how this topic and others like it are dealt with seems to have less to do with what's optimal for the group and seems much more about what's optimal for whomever finds themselves in charge here. There's a slight difference between those two concerns, right?
 
I guess we all tune in to this at different levels. 

For me, it's not about any of that, primarily.  I ask, What best serves the simple course which LLR has set for itself?  I would define that as channeling Confederation info and making that widely available. 
After that it gets a bit squishy, but the idea of letting the website become whatever a majority of users want it to be seems like an unfaithful choice, especially considering how the site is mainly used these days. 
  

I must have misunderstood your appeals for greater and more focused community here, then. I don't think it will ever get handed to us on a platter by the administration here. I don't really care at all about the politics topic; it's more how this episode reflects the inability of this community to find itself. I wish that instead of handwringing about the right executive unilateral action to take, folks at LLR could simply be better friends to their equal other selves here by helping us come into greater harmony instead of treating the community as something to be shaped and molded by them.

With sincere respect Jeremy, LLR have taken a light handed approach for a long time now... they've even been faced with many complaints and recently had a thread about this - (to which I gave a very terse, stern response).

They've been over-accommodating for the most part, endlessly patient, always trying to keep so many different people placated, and they became near completely burnt out. They have every right to consult among themselves, then the CSC as to how to refresh a website of long standing, which has become inundated with transient non RA related topics.

I also don't think there is any "handwringing" going on. That's underestimating their increasing maturity and learning. This decision has the energy of a calmly considered decision, which they have every right to (finally) make after B4th being *unfocused, adversarial and a hard place to visit for a long while.

(This* is not just my perception, but that of many people I've had pm with - people who left B4th because of the types of posts and unclear energies.)
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05-24-2021, 10:50 AM,
#26
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
I'm glad you have such a high opinion of the administration of LLR, Relax, and I hope you don't have any experiences that cause you to lose faith in them.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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05-24-2021, 11:15 AM,
#27
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-24-2021, 10:50 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  I'm glad you have such a high opinion of the administration of LLR, Relax, and I hope you don't have any experiences that cause you to lose faith in them.

I'm smiling right now reading that as I've been no fan of them at all - and a real pain in the butt to them a lot of the time... I've given them a piece of my mind (Austin mostly) and a few years back I really became pissed off with them (except Jade)... I love them  - but in relation to B4 I'm not a fan.

They're finally doing something that is proactive and taking some steps towards refocussing B4 and my admiration is only today returning since this thread.
I can't remember the name of the thread where I tore shreds off them publicly - it's a recent thread from sometime this past few months...

In the end - we don't pay for anything - they are co-curators who assisted Carla and Jim, and they have my respect for their service - even when I felt strongly they'd bailed on their responsibilities, they still had my love and respect. I was pissed off for a long while - but I counselled myself that I had no idea what they were experiencing in their own lives let alone with being part of the team for LL, I reminded myself that I shouldn't expect to always get what I want - I told myself they should have taken on the sexism, passive aggressive disrespect to Jade, but that I shouldn't expect them to be everything for me - or women. I told myself to look after myself, to make my own spiritual development, to stop expecting people I didn't pay a single cent for their time - to be worker bees for me.

So - you've gotten this wrong. I respect my points and my dissatisfactions, but I also learnt not to demand what at that point couldn't be given. Austin eventually disappointed me greatly, I was bitter and let down for a long while - on the other hand Austin (prior to that) wrote me long, deeply thoughtful, caring and considered replies whenever he had a chance to get to replying - he put massive effort, big caring put into his replies - so lets all get real, stop being so demanding of LLR and LIGHTEN up...

How about we all behave as adults here and stop demanding what we want all the time?
How about we all collectively take a breathe and stop forcing our agendas, our expectations and our needy worried opinions?
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05-24-2021, 11:30 AM,
#28
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
I am sorry that my behavior has disappointed you, Relax. I'll try to do better.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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05-24-2021, 11:31 AM,
#29
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-24-2021, 11:15 AM)Relax Wrote:  ...so lets all get real, stop being so demanding of LLR and LIGHTEN up...

Are you trying to say that we should not expect others to be perfect ?!  That this is an impossible expectation and so it can only go unmet and then we can only become frustrated from holding such an expectation ?  Big Grin
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05-24-2021, 12:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-24-2021, 12:00 PM by Relax.)
#30
RE: Upcoming change - political discussion and the politics subforum
(05-24-2021, 11:30 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  I am sorry that my behavior has disappointed you, Relax. I'll try to do better.

this reply seems manipulative, sarcastic, self-pitying?... I'm not sure what - but I won't engage with it
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