Other-selves and projection
11-30-2020, 07:06 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-30-2020, 07:07 PM by Aion.)
#31
RE: Other-selves and projection
Well, I might look to the opposite to try and get in touch with that. You resonate with all those aspects, so how do you feel about the opposite of those things? What is your relationship with control?
Is it that freedom = good and no freedom = bad? Is that actually realistic for those concepts? Just some things to ponder.

In the Western tradition there are two opposites which work off eachother, the terms in Kabbalah are Mercy and Severity, or in Ra terms, total control and total acceptance.
In Kabbalah, the idea of evil actually comes from an imbalance of these two powers. Too much of one or the other leads to an imbalance which leads to unwise decisions and thus 'evil' or negativity.
A lot of people see Severity as the "negative" side and Mercy as the "positive" but in truth it is the balance between the two that equates with 'good'.

In this sense, structure and flow, the key is to utilize them together I believe, as you say reconcile.

It seems you are already comfortable with flow, so to be explored is maybe your issues with structure?
The desire to be free is one of the brightest burning flames in the heart of humanity.
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11-30-2020, 07:29 PM,
#32
RE: Other-selves and projection
(11-30-2020, 07:06 PM)Aion Wrote:  Well, I might look to the opposite to try and get in touch with that. You resonate with all those aspects, so how do you feel about the opposite of those things? What is your relationship with control?
Is it that freedom = good and no freedom = bad? Is that actually realistic for those concepts? Just some things to ponder.

In the Western tradition there are two opposites which work off eachother, the terms in Kabbalah are Mercy and Severity, or in Ra terms, total control and total acceptance.
In Kabbalah, the idea of evil actually comes from an imbalance of these two powers. Too much of one or the other leads to an imbalance which leads to unwise decisions and thus 'evil' or negativity.
A lot of people see Severity as the "negative" side and Mercy as the "positive" but in truth it is the balance between the two that equates with 'good'.

In this sense, structure and flow, the key is to utilize them together I believe, as you say reconcile.

It seems you are already comfortable with flow, so to be explored is maybe your issues with structure?

My relationship with control? Iffy, to say the least. I am certainly coming off of a "acceptance = good, control = bad" trip. This is something that I've noticed specifically within the polarity percentage prerequisites mentioned in the Ra Material. It's not 95%+/5%-, it is an (almost) equal balance of 51%+/49%-. This flew over my head for a while and has been something I have been sort of pondering this year.

I appreciate you pointing it out for me.

I've always struggled with control, authorities, being told what to do etc. Even growing up. I think a lot of people can relate.

So with that being said, I say you are correct in pointing out that an exploration of my issues with control/structure is paramount to getting over this hump that I continuously find myself in.

Step 1?........ establishing a more "wholesome" relationship with those Saturnian (pardon my astrology speak) aspects of life.

Control is not bad! Acceptance is not good! There is a balance to be struck.

And I appreciate you bringing in the Kaballah concepts..... I love hearing others relate to aspects of other magic traditions to ones that I am already familiar with, sort of, validating in a way.

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Aion
11-30-2020, 07:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-30-2020, 07:41 PM by Aion.)
#33
RE: Other-selves and projection
If you are in to Astrology then surely you will know that we have been in a time of Saturnian influence and it is about to be evened out by a rare conjunction with Jupiter.
https://earthsky.org/astronomy-essentials/great-jupiter-saturn-conjunction-dec-21-2020

All going according to plan. Wink

I'll also say I can definitely identify with the issue. I am very lone wolf and I do not like being controlled in any way shape or form, but self-discipline is actually usually to my benefit.
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11-30-2020, 08:45 PM,
#34
RE: Other-selves and projection
Oh yes I have heard that! Not only that, but they’re forming a conjunction in Aquarius, which is where my natal Uranus and Neptune lie...... bring it on!! Lol
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11-30-2020, 11:17 PM,
#35
RE: Other-selves and projection
But Aion perhaps self discipline is always the right balancer as we are all one. So one balances and the All reflects it. Lol. We are back to Ramana Maharishi, I put myself in order and the world rearranges itself Wink
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12-10-2020, 01:36 PM,
#36
RE: Other-selves and projection
Soooo.... the story continues and I wish to unload some stuff on here.

We've been okay since we talked. Still not on the same page though.

A small thing that I've been experiencing is frustration/sadness when my brother tells me I "should be learning scales" or doing this and that music theory. The other day we were jamming and I had picked up a bass guitar when my brother was on drums, and he got upset at how I was playing and stopped playing. I was reworking songs that I already knew on bass, so just taking those notes and coming up with a new bassline, and I think he picked up on that and didn't like it.

So that's been a thing. It's just awfully demoralizing when it's all "you should be doing this." There's never any recognition of the parts of my playing that my brother likes, it's always just a feeling of "you've got some work to do." I really like my style of playing thank you very much.

I do understand, from what he's told me, that he's got a "vision" for our music project and I think part of that vision is me having the same musical understanding he does. I explained to him, the last time we talked about this, that I really want freedom to express my self however I want within the boundaries of our music project, without stifling my creative inclinations. I suppose I maaaaybe didn't do a good job explaining that, because I still sort of just feel like a "pawn" in this vision he has. Idk.... it's kind of a yucky feeling right now

Another thing which sort of ties into the "we" sort of way of talking mentioned in the initial post: we've been having issues with a roommate. Long story short: our roomie wants to keep having his girlfriend over during COVID, my brother is super super uncomfortable about it, and yesterday she slept over without any word from our rooommate. So my brother was absolutely pissed off yesterday.

It was kind of late, and we were talking about it. It was just us two. My brother was getting really worked up about it and mentioned something like, "yeah well it's all his (roommate) fault this is happening anyway"

Side note: my brother has been really combative, passive-aggressive about the whole thing. It has been sort of ugly and unhelpful for everyone.

So I, obviously needing to express something, blurted out that he's got the power not to let the situation take over his emotions so much and that ultimately getting so worked up about it is going to be unhelpful to anyone. I wasn't the most graceful with how I said it, in fact, I shouldn't have said it because he knows this. He looked at me like I was an idiot, and said "wow thank you I had no idea that was the case" in a very sarcastic tone. Alright, I deserved that one.

I got sort of put off by his reaction so I just started apologizing and getting down on my self a little bit (I definitely called myself an idiot for saying that.) My brother got up and stormed off.

So I collected myself and started rolling myself a cigarette. I was still feeling a little icky, but ultimately I knew that I overstepped in the situation and I was coming to terms with that.

In walks my brother, shaking and crying, saying "we need to go to therapy." I simply said "ok." and he walked off.

Now, I did ask my brother a couple months ago if he wanted to do therapy. This was right after we had a big blowout, I was in the midst of a breakup, and moving houses. I'm not opposed to therapy. I've got some hang-ups with the efficiency of traditional therapy, but that's it.

I feel sort of bad for saying this, but I don't feel that "we" need to go to therapy. Personally, I can sit down with my brother and I can lay it all down on the table for him, if he wants to hear it. And likewise, I will sit and listen to what he has to lay down too. I don't feel that I, personally, need a therapist to do that. Clearly, my brother does.

So, again, it's sort of like a weird thing. I'm just hung up on the "we" thing yknow? I'll go to therapy with my brother if he wants that, but please, let's drop the "we" thing and call a spade a spade, YOU have a hard time handling your emotions, YOU feel like I (and others) are the cause of your emotions and the reason for your suffering, and YOU need to go to therapy.

It's been an ongoing theme in our relationship, everyone else is the problem to my brother. "You are the reason I am like this, you are the reason I did this, you made me feel this way therefore it's your fault I did this rash thing while I was upset."

It's been exhausting, especially this year. I've apologized to him many times (some of those times I regret apologizing as I was owning up to things that i started to believe were "me things" but actually weren't) this year, and yet i still have a plate full of things that he has said/done to me that I haven't even been able to tell him about. I don't even have to tell him these things, I can forgive, just trying to paint a picture of one aspect of our relationship.

Anyways..... woooeweee, yep. Been struggling with this a little bit. Can anyone relate any more to this?
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12-10-2020, 02:15 PM,
#37
RE: Other-selves and projection
It sounds like your brother has always been the dominant part or your duo, and he is feeling a loss of control. As you grow into your own person and not what he thinks you should be, it causes him to lash out at you. Then you are used to being the follower and you cave to what he wants to make him happy.

Any time someone changes, those changes will be resisted by those around them, no matter how well meaning they are. A different version of you exists in everyone you knows head. When your behavior is not congruent with that version, they will try to put you back into that box they have made for you, that is because your changes make them uncomfortable. That is on them to correct, not on you.

There is a control/controlled dynamic that seems to be going on here. Nothing nefarious or even intentional, but this is part of many people's relationships. I would suggest you examine your relationship from that perspective and you need to decide if that is a dynamic you want to accept moving forward.
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hounsic
12-10-2020, 03:19 PM,
#38
RE: Other-selves and projection
(12-10-2020, 02:15 PM)Dtris Wrote:  It sounds like your brother has always been the dominant part or your duo, and he is feeling a loss of control. As you grow into your own person and not what he thinks you should be, it causes him to lash out at you. Then you are used to being the follower and you cave to what he wants to make him happy.

Any time someone changes, those changes will be resisted by those around them, no matter how well meaning they are. A different version of you exists in everyone you knows head. When your behavior is not congruent with that version, they will try to put you back into that box they have made for you, that is because your changes make them uncomfortable. That is on them to correct, not on you.

There is a control/controlled dynamic that seems to be going on here. Nothing nefarious or even intentional, but this is part of many people's relationships. I would suggest you examine your relationship from that perspective and you need to decide if that is a dynamic you want to accept moving forward.

First point is pretty on the mark. He's expressed resentment towards the fact that we have become different people, especially in the last few years. Like, we'll be talking about what we want musically or something, and he'll just sigh and say "yeah I guess we just want different things now." I can tell it really digs into him.

I've also expressed a desire to move away from our current city and that hasn't been met with any enthusiasm or good feeling at all. I've been wanting to move for a while now and have been looking at options, but I haven't told him because I don't want to upset him.

Idk, I would like it if he could look at me moving away as like, "oh, sillypumpkins is doing what his heart is set on, good for him" kind of thing. But it's more like "oh okay, you want to move away, that's really throwing a wrench in 'our plans.'" Idk, there's always just been a bitter resentment (on his end) towards any semblance of deviation from his "ideal course for us" whenever it becomes clear that I might be desiring a different way than him.

This is such a potent catalyst for me. I've found myself saying, "screw it, I'm just not going to deal with this anymore" and have been really set on not involving myself in living with him, and that sort of thing. But then someone like my mom will talk me into getting back in touch with him, because he's hurting and he needs his brother, or whatever. Then I get back into feeling like I "owe" something to the relationship/to him, or like it's my "duty" to continue doing this with him.

It's been a back-and-forth, in other words.

Then I find myself saying, well this is just really good catalyst, and a great learning opportunity. And I justify it in that way.

Dtris, I appreciate your response and will be examining the relationship from the angle you mentioned.

Much love
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12-10-2020, 06:05 PM,
#39
RE: Other-selves and projection
Silly, I have a feeling that you and your brother are too close and with too many things in common for the relationship not to stay close, and find closure at some point.

If you wish to move and have had that inclination for some time, it seems your intuition is telling you so.

When anyone speaks of such a project, and as a response gets a
Throwing a wrench in our plans,
when those plans have been delayed, it seems there’s some cute attempt at throwing guilt on someone Wink, instead of perhaps moving positively towards implementing ‘our plans’ or supporting someone’s new project...

I think the duty, if there is one, is treating the other one with respect, which means not entering into the offered guilt trip, but keeping gently firm on one’s decision. This in fact honors both. It took me a while to realize that myself, don’t worry, Big Grin
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12-10-2020, 06:29 PM,
#40
RE: Other-selves and projection
If you think certain issues are not your issues and they are being projected on you, then I think you ought to learn to let others' issues be what they are. That is, their own issues.

It's great to internalize everything about us, but at the end of it you'll always just get back to the process of centering yourself within yourself to balance things out. You can't do that for someone else and instead perhaps merely hope to be an inspiration of what this process can bring. For example, that you said "that he's got the power not to let the situation take over his emotions so much and that ultimately getting so worked up about it is going to be unhelpful to anyone" to me is excellent, sure it's not what he wants to hear but on the other hand did you also have to hear his ranting? If that's how you are processing the event yourself, then I think it's great to share your truth as a feedback and give him the power to have a conscious choice regarding how he wants to feel. You can't make choices for him.

I personally think that you ought to speak your truth if you see it fit when you are consulted over things your brother is displeased about, the rest of the time you ought to center yourself on yourself and your own issues. Acknowledge the differences, acknowledge that you are not responsible to neither change him nor to change yourself for him, then honor this understanding.

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sillypumpkins
12-10-2020, 08:07 PM,
#41
RE: Other-selves and projection
Flo - thank you Smile yes we are veeeery close in a way that has been sort of jarring for most of my life hahahaha.

And the kicker for me about the “wrench in the plans,” is that, we can still make music together even if we are geographically apart! That’s the beauty of today’s day and age I suppose. Maybe not in the way he envisions, but there are clearly ways to make it all mold together

Minyatur - lol minyatur every time I see your name I think “minitaur” like a Minotaur but smaller hahahaha. Thank you for your response, it’s beautifully put frankly and gives me something to go on. Many thanks
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12-10-2020, 08:58 PM,
#42
RE: Other-selves and projection
(12-10-2020, 08:07 PM)sillypumpkins Wrote:  Minyatur - lol minyatur every time I see your name I think “minitaur” like a Minotaur but smaller hahahaha.

Not the first time I've got that. If you're interested in where the name comes from: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Elros

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sillypumpkins
12-13-2020, 01:36 PM,
#43
RE: Other-selves and projection
So there's been a lot of frustration within the house lately.

My brother is hurting real bad, he's really depressed and I know he feels lonely these days. I try my best to keep this in mind when we are trying to talk about issues that we have.

It's hard for me to deal with someone close to me saying "I'm done putting effort into our relationship" or "I lost my brother years ago" (referring to when I started dating someone in 2017 and wasn't hanging with my bro as much,) and then he comes up to my room and asks if I want to talk.

He even knocked on my door yesterday, and when I said "not now please" he threw my door open and started yelling at me.

It's like, I know he's my brother, but under any other circumstances this would be a totally abusive and toxic relationship.

I know I play a part in the confusion.... I've said things that I didn't mean. I still have trouble not reacting to him sometimes. I'm not even mad at him, I don't even see this as his fault or anything. This is just sooooo toxic and it doesn't help either of us!

My brother's feelings of hurt and everything else he is feeling are totally valid, I realize that. However, I can't stick around for this anymore. It's too messy. I don't know what's mine and what is his sometimes, yknow?

I've got some forgiving to do. And I think I need to remove myself from this situation as well.

Just wanted to post an update, but also just wanted to get my thoughts outta my system. My mind has been on overdrive the last couple days! Like, pretend conversations happening in my head. It was hard to fall asleep last night. I had an extra long meditation sesh this morning so that helped.

thanks and love to all you lovely peeple
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12-13-2020, 01:53 PM,
#44
RE: Other-selves and projection
Love to you Silly. Much love.

Having these pretended conversations in our heads may mean we need to make a decision.
It may be to stay and see this through. Or not. You will know.

Heart
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sillypumpkins
12-13-2020, 04:36 PM,
#45
RE: Other-selves and projection
(12-13-2020, 01:36 PM)sillypumpkins Wrote:  So there's been a lot of frustration within the house lately.

My brother is hurting real bad, he's really depressed and I know he feels lonely these days. I try my best to keep this in mind when we are trying to talk about issues that we have.

It's hard for me to deal with someone close to me saying "I'm done putting effort into our relationship" or "I lost my brother years ago" (referring to when I started dating someone in 2017 and wasn't hanging with my bro as much,) and then he comes up to my room and asks if I want to talk.

He even knocked on my door yesterday, and when I said "not now please" he threw my door open and started yelling at me.

It's like, I know he's my brother, but under any other circumstances this would be a totally abusive and toxic relationship.

I know I play a part in the confusion.... I've said things that I didn't mean. I still have trouble not reacting to him sometimes. I'm not even mad at him, I don't even see this as his fault or anything. This is just sooooo toxic and it doesn't help either of us!

My brother's feelings of hurt and everything else he is feeling are totally valid, I realize that. However, I can't stick around for this anymore. It's too messy. I don't know what's mine and what is his sometimes, yknow?

I've got some forgiving to do. And I think I need to remove myself from this situation as well.

Just wanted to post an update, but also just wanted to get my thoughts outta my system. My mind has been on overdrive the last couple days! Like, pretend conversations happening in my head. It was hard to fall asleep last night. I had an extra long meditation sesh this morning so that helped.

thanks and love to all you lovely peeple

I'm going to offer you a musical analogy. Right now, you two are playing a very busy piece with a lot of counter-point. The moments of tensions are those moments when your patterns result in a dissonant harmony. Often this happens when two opposing notes are sounded together.

How can you improve on such a composition? There is a lot of focus in music on the "active" elements, notes, tones, rhythm, pulse, beat, all of these things.

However, I'm sure you've heard the saying, "you have to listen to the notes that aren't being played".
In between all the notes and activity is the passive element - silence, rest, SPACE.

Space is such a crucial element to music, not just to create a composition, but also for creativity to flow, and I think these musical principles can be applied to all areas of life.
Space is that time to breathe, time to listen. It sounds like you both could consider more about space.

A friend once suggest to me to "include more space" in my meditations. Maybe you'll find that fruitful as well.
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Dtris
12-13-2020, 05:43 PM,
#46
RE: Other-selves and projection
Hi sillypumpkins, sorry to hear that things are so rough for you right now. 

Firstly, I just want to say how cool I think it is that you have a person in your life that you're so close to. The relationship you have with your twin is very special, and you've probably experienced a type of closeness with your sibling that most people will never know. I think your twin has just reached a certain level of lowered inhibition with you, and is acting very impulsively around you, for better or worse. 

As you have stated, the relationship dynamic is no longer working for you. It appears that your relationship has reached a point where it is no longer tenable as it is. There is the calling for a maturation process to occur between the two of you, and catalyst may continue to be difficult until this occurs. It will likely be a constant pressure until there is a release. 

Sometimes certain relationship dynamics need to be laid to rest so that way can be made for something new to spring up. However, the shedding process can be tumultuous and painful. I recommend the invoking of grace for both you and your twin during this difficult time, remembering to give him extra space and tolerance if he acts out in resistance to the changes. 

So, by your comments, I think you know what needs to happen, but maybe you're just a little too worried to really go through with it? Maybe you're seeking external permission because of the guilt you feel of what needs to happen? 

Well, it's clear to me that you have to set firmer boundaries with your twin. There is no way around it, it just has to be done, for the both of you to move forward. You need to let him know that it is no longer OK how he treats you, and that your company is a privilege, not a right. 

So how do you feel about that?

(note: sorry if I've been too direct, but I thought it would be OK as you've been sharing here so openly. Smile Take care all). 
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12-13-2020, 08:23 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-14-2020, 06:06 PM by Minyatur.)
#47
RE: Other-selves and projection
(12-13-2020, 04:36 PM)Aion Wrote:  I'm going to offer you a musical analogy. Right now, you two are playing a very busy piece with a lot of counter-point. The moments of tensions are those moments when your patterns result in a dissonant harmony. Often this happens when two opposing notes are sounded together.

How can you improve on such a composition? There is a lot of focus in music on the "active" elements, notes, tones, rhythm, pulse, beat, all of these things.

However, I'm sure you've heard the saying, "you have to listen to the notes that aren't being played".
In between all the notes and activity is the passive element - silence, rest, SPACE.

Space is such a crucial element to music, not just to create a composition, but also for creativity to flow, and I think these musical principles can be applied to all areas of life.
Space is that time to breathe, time to listen. It sounds like you both could consider more about space.

A friend once suggest to me to "include more space" in my meditations. Maybe you'll find that fruitful as well.

Just to add to this, last summer I went on a road-trip and my favorite portion of the road trip was clearly the part where the starry sky could best be seen. One night, I was trying to analyze why the starry sky has such a deep effect upon myself, how it is what I've known in my life to emulate most a sense of peace and serenity within myself. Pondering why it could give this sense of serenity and peace, I was thinking that it can bring us back to our nature that is somewhat both empty and full. How we can gaze above and kind of see the empty that is filled with infinite things, yet these infinite things stand with a lot space in-between them and I thought that is something that is much lacking to the human experience. We constantly gravitate so close to one another, so much that we struggle to become centered within ourselves, becoming completely at the mercy of a ceaseless dramatic dance. Some people even have come to fear to be alone, constantly projecting this avoidance of themselves unto others.

One of the lessons I've had in this lifetime was admittance of not being the answer to someone's else life issues. So I do think sometimes the right choice is simply give someone the space to stop projecting unto yourself and in turn also give them the space to be able to center themselves with their own selves.

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12-13-2020, 08:32 PM,
#48
RE: Other-selves and projection
  
You might wanna take some space and consider this from his soul's point of view.  First, he chose this personality and these relationships and these talents and biases to bring into this illusion and experience them fester and collide.  What might be the spiritual lessons his soul thought he should learn here to balance his soul stream?  What's he been missing?  If you can figure out (somehow) where his soul might be wanting him to explore, then maybe you'll see how you do and don't fit into this.

It strikes me that you're tired of being treated as an object rather than as a genuine divine creature-thingy.  If you can get a perspective (somehow) on this aspect of it, you might be able to stay out of his way more effectively.  I.e., by understanding what he's after, you can be a better mirror and move through this more quickly.

Repeat: Where is soul trying to take him?  What is he missing?  What is he staring at, but not seeing?
  
May all beings be happy.
May all beings find peace.
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12-14-2020, 12:32 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-14-2020, 12:33 PM by sillypumpkins.)
#49
RE: Other-selves and projection
Soooo.... that last post was a little emotional on my end. I was feeling very frustrated and upset (honestly, I felt like a victim). It doesn't feel good disconnecting from my brother like that.

I was talking to my mom yesterday and she brought up how she has a brother who she hasn't spoken to in 30 years, and she has no idea why. I can tell it is really upsetting and tormenting for her, and, well..... I don't want it to come to that for me and my brother.

So yesterday, I knocked on his door and asked if we could talk. I apologized for my part in the messiness, acknowledged his hurt, and then suggested that we hold off on these conversations until we find a therapist. I think we've dug ourselves a pretty deep hole and thus I don't see us being able to get out of it without a little bit of help.

I can tell we both felt a bit better after that. He even gave me a hug.

@flo - Heart

@Aion - I love the music analogy, thank you. I actually had an epiphany moment a few months ago involving silence in music. Though you're right that it's something that can be applied to all facets of life. Our conversations are definitely lacking in listening. Neither of us feel heard, that much is clear. Thank you for thoughts Smile

@Louisabell - hi louisa Smile yes it is cool having someone so close to me in this life. Totally, as I've said, jarring at times, but it's really been a unique experience.

one thing that has been really difficult for me, is how I've teetered on the scales of duality in this situation for a while now. I'll go from giving myself completely over to the relationship, apologizing for things I didn't even do, and then I'll flip over to the opposite, wherein I get bitter, resentful and want to cut myself off from the relationship.

it reminds me of a few months ago, I was splitting up with my romantic partner and we were really stuck on what to do. It was either, stay together, or split up. There wasn't any middle ground, and it caused a lot of suffering, for me at least. One night, we were talking and it occurred to me that it doesn't have to be either/or, we can do it in a more holistic way. So, we split amicably and left room between us in case we want to try again (or not) in the future. Kinda like what Aion mentioned, leaving space. That made the whole process transformative and less somber than it would have been otherwise.

So, I'm not really sure anymore that cutting my brother off is something that i have to do. I see a more holistic solution, that being going to therapy together.

I resonate with everything else you said. Definitely need to set firmer boundaries, and give him space if he needs it.

also I appreciate the directness Smile

@Minyatur - beautiful, thank you for that Smile

@peregrine - I see, yes. Well, I know that my brother feels very lonely sometimes, and I often feel, from what he's told me, that I am a sort of counter-balance to that. I know he struggles being by himself, and I know he desires meaningful and creative relationships with others. When I started seeing a girl a few years ago, my brother took great offense to that and now tells me that I dropped him, and that he "lost me" around this time. We were living together for a year a couple years ago too, and I was going through some heavy stuff, also was still seeing my girlfriend, so I found it difficult to make time for other things. I was also working a lot. He tells me, to this day, that I dropped him and forgot about him as though it had something to do with him. He'll also point out that, when I was living with my partner and he was living at my dad's, he was always the one who had to come down to see me rather than the other way around. Well...... I was in school, working, and didn't have a car, so again, it had nothing to do with him.

Are these questions that I can even answer, peregrine? Serious question hahahaha. I just feel as though those questions are more apt as personal inquiries rather than interpersonal ones? does that make sense?
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12-14-2020, 05:18 PM,
#50
RE: Other-selves and projection
(12-14-2020, 12:32 PM)sillypumpkins Wrote:  I just feel as though those questions are more apt as personal inquiries rather than interpersonal ones? does that make sense?

Yeah, you're right.  I was just trying to be nice.

So, forget about HIM.  Let's talk about YOU, pal!!!!

YOU chose to experience these particular illusory circumstances (according to the alien propaganda),  YOU wanted to learn particular lessons from this.  Well, it might make your life easier to understand these lessons, don't you think?!!?


That looks more apt now, I'd say.


Disclaimer: All shouting was done in good taste according to our internal standards, such as they may be.

  
May all beings be happy.
May all beings find peace.
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12-14-2020, 07:52 PM,
#51
RE: Other-selves and projection
(11-26-2020, 06:13 PM)sillypumpkins Wrote:  Hello everybody.

I've been dealing with some pretty tough catalyst with a sibling of mine this year.

My brother and I make music together and we both really like doing it. We live together now and most days we play together.

Lately, my brother has been getting really frustrated because (I quote) "we are so lazy about making music", "we could be doing way more", etc etc.

Last night, my brother seemed upset and I asked what was going on and he said that first thing, "we are lazy about making music." I sort of shut it down because I really didn't appreciate my self being brought into the equation in that way. I basically told him that I appreciate his feelings about it but I don't appreciate him bringing me into the equation, because it's clearly an issue within himself.

He sort of dropped it after that.

Well today it got brought up again. It was sort of presented this time as, "well, I can't bring this up with you anymore because you just get offended so I'm just not going to bring it up cause I don't wanna argue." I told him we can talk about it without arguing. We tried but it turned into an argument.

My issue with this is that my brother's issues with himself are very clearly being projected on to me. In the sense that, he feels that he should be doing more or that he's lazy, and yet he frames it as an "us" issue. We are identical twins, so each of our sense of self has always sort of been wrapped up in each other in one way or another. Just to give you a bit more context.

So, we are at a point now where my brother doesn't want to talk about it because "we both want different things and I just have to get over that," and he doesn't want to argue. And I will absolutely talk about it but often times I get upset about it just because of how the conversation always goes. Whenever I just listen to him, that is never enough for him, and whenever I explain my perspective on music-making or my perspective on how the "issue" is being framed, I just get pushed to the side. It's like he needs something from me and if I'm not giving it to him, he doesn't want to talk? I don't know. It's not a great feeling.

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of projection, particularly with a close family member? It is a total mind-f*** for me (pardon my language). It's like a stalemate. I understand my brother is upset about some things, and I want to give him the space to express that, but it's very difficult to do when the entire issue is framed as an "us" problem, and especially when I don't at all share the same sentiments. So on one hand, I want to provide the space to listen to him, but on the other, I can't sit and just listen to some of the things he says because he talks about it as a "we" problem, and to me it's totally not like that. We are each our own persons, and having faith in ourselves as individuals is more important than anything else.

Really just looking for some advice here. This has been my biggest catalyst that I can remember and it's quite draining at times. Less so than in the past, but still.

I appreciate you all. To my American friends: happy thanksgiving....... aw hell, thanksgiving to you all Smile
I can completely understand why this is so draining!
I was looking at the subject title and was thinking, is it projecting or is it somehing else? I think we assume that nearly every encounter with the other is about us of which is true, but, it is not always about projection. Sometimes it concerns an emotion within us that lies hidden until your sibling says...YOU ARE LAZY! Then you get that sudden gut punch. Before you label your experience as a projection maybe search for what would heal the situation but not in order to give your sibling all that he wants, but, you too. Encounters like this, I have often asked myself where is the lesson? I will investigate the situation until I can be satisfied that I have located the thing that needs adjusting or healing. You also mentioned you were experiencing a lot of catalyst which is already tough therefore you may need a little time of rest and reflection. When our lives shift we forget to take the time to really connect with the One whom is always with us and us with It. You cannot be separated.
At night before bed, give thanks for the day even though it was according to you, an imperfect day, be grateful and bless it. Bring harmony into the last thing you do before closing your eyes and drifting off to sleep. Remember that if you cannot discover something, you can say, "in time all things will be revealed to me" and rest easy on that; keep your faith focused. I have a feeling you are on the precipice of discovering something intensely wonderful about yourself, your music and your sibling!
You seem far too loving to allow a disharmonious circumstance to take you down stream and that is why I say to bless it and be thankful as it will intensify that love within you that is already a large part of you.
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12-15-2020, 10:53 AM,
#52
RE: Other-selves and projection
@peregrine - thank you..... yes, now that's a bit easier to work with! Lol

@ohr ein sof - thank you kindly for this reminder. I've found that sometimes when catalyst is really revving up, it can become difficult to recognize the divine in All...... Heart

It is sooooo much easier and graceful to face the catalyst and remind myself, "I may not remember why, but I chose this" and then resting easy in that realization. And like you said, ohr, "in time all things will be revealed to me" Smile

thank you both
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12-15-2020, 06:32 PM,
#53
RE: Other-selves and projection
(12-14-2020, 12:32 PM)sillypumpkins Wrote:  S

@peregrine - I see, yes. Well, I know that my brother feels very lonely sometimes, and I often feel, from what he's told me, that I am a sort of counter-balance to that. I know he struggles being by himself, and I know he desires meaningful and creative relationships with others. When I started seeing a girl a few years ago, my brother took great offense to that and now tells me that I dropped him, and that he "lost me" around this time. We were living together for a year a couple years ago too, and I was going through some heavy stuff, also was still seeing my girlfriend, so I found it difficult to make time for other things. I was also working a lot. He tells me, to this day, that I dropped him and forgot about him as though it had something to do with him. He'll also point out that, when I was living with my partner and he was living at my dad's, he was always the one who had to come down to see me rather than the other way around. Well...... I was in school, working, and didn't have a car, so again, it had nothing to do with him.

Are these questions that I can even answer, peregrine? Serious question hahahaha. I just feel as though those questions are more apt as personal inquiries rather than interpersonal ones? does that make sense?

Not Peregrine but I think I have another penny to throw out here.

One of my best friends got a new girlfriend at one point and ghosted on our friend group for about 3 years. This was not his first serious girlfriend, and we were no longer teenagers, but not too far off either. She was fairly controlling and didn't like any of us and bla bla bla. Anyways during this time we occasionally hit him up and he would decline most invitations. A few times I got to see him. Eventually he broke up with her and came and started hanging out again and after a couple months one day he was like," dude WTF. You never said a word." I told him it wouldn't have made any difference and I knew he would come back around eventually.

He was so caught up in his new relationship, friends and life that he forgot about his old ones. Nothing wrong with that, it happens. What was important was that afterward he apologized and said it wouldn't happen again. Now he has been married a few years and we still see each other and our other friends.

Your brother says he feels like it had something to do with him, and that is his own insecurity to work on. But your story sounds like a lot of rationalization to me. It might help to look back and see things from not only his perspective, but your own knowing what you do now. Acknowledging your own role in that period would probably help both of you out.
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12-15-2020, 07:16 PM,
#54
RE: Other-selves and projection
Yeah, Dtris, thank you for pointing that out. My responsibility in that situation has definitely been hiding in my blind spot.

I've had this tendency of like..... I don't know, when someone points out things about my behavior that bothers them, I can get really defensive in a way of like, "well that was my choice, that's what I wanted to do at that time, so why are you challenging that?" Which is like, really unloving and just sort of toxic as well. I suppose it comes down to my inability to grasp how my actions affect other people perhaps.

I have an easier time when someone points out maybe like, if my chewing is bothering them, that's real easy for me to understand, yknow? But when it comes to bigger things like relationships, or how I spend my time, or my choice of where I want to live, it can really trigger me because on the surface it doesn't seem to involve anyone else. But it often does. And I think I need to recognize that more.

Thank you again Heart
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12-15-2020, 08:15 PM,
#55
RE: Other-selves and projection
(12-15-2020, 10:53 AM)sillypumpkins Wrote:  @peregrine - thank you..... yes, now that's a bit easier to work with! Lol

@ohr ein sof - thank you kindly for this reminder. I've found that sometimes when catalyst is really revving up, it can become difficult to recognize the divine in All...... Heart

It is sooooo much easier and graceful to face the catalyst and remind myself, "I may not remember why, but I chose this" and then resting easy in that realization. And like you said, ohr, "in time all things will be revealed to me" Smile

thank you both
Such a loving thing for you to say and I agree with you Pumpkins. Everything will be revealed to you as you need it. There is no trying to figure this out, as it will be revealed and all your questions will be answered one by one. The only thing you need is faith and Will. We can rest easy because we are with The Father everyday; all day and night. Please know that.
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