Should these forums be closed?
01-22-2021, 01:40 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-22-2021, 12:59 PM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:  ...
To purge? "Next level"? "Disruptive members"? According to what protocol, if All is One, and One is All?

This clinging to external sources to base decisions is an act of overabundance of wisdom whilst also lacking in understanding, compassion, acceptance, kindness — virtues emphasized countless times both by the Ra Channelings and by other sources such as Q'uo, Latwii, Hatonn, Yadda, etc.
...

I believe I can comment on this particular area.

I would expect that the protocol followed regarding these categories of actions would be undertaken while applying the existing guidelines subscribed to by members of these forum.

Disruptive is a question of perspective.  Disruptive members are not an issue... unless the guidelines are not followed.
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01-22-2021, 02:13 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-22-2021, 02:16 PM by zedro.)
RE: Should these forums be closed?
I think this is just circling the drain and perhaps needs to see some practical testing. I would suggest that Sacred Fool (or any other member) quotes any post they feel needs moderating, and they can explain:

1. How they feel the post should be moderated (deleted, partially censured/edited with demonstration)
2. Why they feel it required the moderation
3. Should the poster be notified, or reprimanded

Other members would not comment on those 'moderation notes' in that thread to avoid derailment or clutter, but maybe a separate consolidated thread would keep those notes (like the back page of a wiki).

What would be interesting is everyone could then see the how that moderation would have eliminated future development of that thread had the moderation been enacted, like viewing alternate timelines. It would certainly be an interesting experiment on how intervention can alter evolution, like a half assed simulation.

I don't really expect anyone to take me up this tho Sleepy
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Ymarsakar
01-22-2021, 04:22 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-22-2021, 02:13 PM)zedro Wrote:  I think this is just circling the drain.......

We're not all able to cleave to a straight and narrow path!   ha ha ha

Quote:1. How they feel the post should be moderated (deleted, partially censured/edited with demonstration)
2. Why they feel it required the moderation
3. Should the poster be notified, or reprimanded

Good questions.  It sounds like the long and the short of it is that these measures have been unevenly applied in the past, but now there is a brand new group working out the details.  No doubt, they are going around in circles with all this right now, but we'll hope they bring lots of water to the tub and will eventually plug the drain.  (In other words......details to follow.)

     
May all beings be happy.
May all beings find peace.
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01-25-2021, 07:55 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-26-2021, 02:52 PM by Steppingfeet.)
RE: Should these forums be closed?
Sacred Fool (I wish the forum technology had tagging capacity), a belated message to say thank you so much for your reply. The post of yours to which I replied landed as hurtful for a few reasons that I needn't go into. I will instead focus on how the ownership, apology, clarification, and humility were above and beyond, admirable even.

I hear that you understand yourself well enough to know that your net effect on a team might be less than helpful. Thank you for self-responsibly stating that as significant factor in your decision to decline. Even those work best alone still have a great part to play in the overall tapestry of a given cultural group.

For the record to anyone at large: The forums have never ever been without moderation. It's never been the wild wild west here. Though some loud voices may at times bemoan their perception of the standards applied or the absence of moderation as they see it, the boundaries have always been guarded. And, even when it doesn't look like moderators are in the ring duking it out with every no-do-gooder, copious amounts of time have been invested in moderating fairly in the complex gymnastics of balancing a philosophy that respects free will as paramount while having to occasionally cap the exercise of free will. As I shared in my previous post to this thread, moderation is never going to look perfect to everyone.

But the [edit: neutrally expressed observation] is right that Bring4th needs more active and engaged stewardship from those charged with the responsibility of its care. That's where we failed and that's where we are actively bending every effort to permanently solve for that problem, thanks in large part to the generosity of a new circle of friends.

The unequivocal fact of the matter is that if it was a choice between me being an active steward or letting bring forth go, it would have to be the latter. Without cloning myself in triplicate, it is simply something I cannot do. Austin has some more bandwidth but I think he would feel largely the same. It is not for lack of genuine care or belief in the forums (else why make any effort?), but the energy logistics of bandwidth.

We all want the forums to succeed. We all want the forums to be a place for a diversity of viewpoints within the focus of L/L Research's material within the boundaries of the guideline conducted in a general tone and spirit of compassion. It is an evolving experiment and we learn as we go. And as we all know, learning happens by way of trials and errors.

Thank you everyone for the support and in continuing the conversation of what you want this place to be for you and how you can contribute to its fulfillment. Stewards have a vital, indispensable role in sustaining and building the ever perfecting forums, but every posts from every member, especially the long-term regulars, is also as vital in building and maintaining the culture. So it is well to be asking yourselves "What do we want?" and "What can we as individual contributors do?"

Explanation by the tongue makes most things clear, but love unexplained is clearer. - Rumi
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01-26-2021, 07:02 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-26-2021, 07:16 AM by Relax. Edit Reason: Additonal last paragraph. )
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-25-2021, 07:55 PM)Steppingfeet Wrote:  For the record to anyone at large: The forums have never ever been without moderation. It's never been the wild wild west here. Though some loud voices may at times bemoan their perception of the standards applied or the absence of moderation as they see it, the boundaries have always been guarded. And, even when it doesn't look like moderators are in the ring duking it out with every no-do-gooder, copious amounts of time have been invested in moderating fairly in the complex gymnastics of balancing a philosophy that respects free will as paramount while having to occasionally cap the exercise of free will. As I shared in my previous post to this thread, moderation is never going to look perfect to everyone.  

Gary - I can't speak to the OP because I'm not sure where he's actually coming from... some of it I agree with - but I don't advocate the degree of control/censoring/forum 'environment' modification he seems to ask for.

However - there have been repeated breaches of the guidelines on B4th.

I could go through the forums, copy/paste and post here dozens upon dozens of instances of aggression, sexism, misogyny, and fear based material.

Just now I came across a meme with a man and woman walking down a street with the man looking back lustfully at (in this version of the meme) a green Pepe face on an 'idealised' woman's body naked except for a 'skimpy' bikini showing half exposed exaggerated large breasts.

In 5-10 minutes scrolling I could easily find half a dozen examples of guideline breaching posts that are still up.

I assume I'm one of those "loud voices" (who) "may at times bemoan their perception of the standards applied or the absence of moderation as they see it" (?)

It's quite loaded language to describe valid concerns as 'bemoaning' and "their perception".
Guidelines are clearly defined - and not about members "perceptions".

I can imagine how much work it is and would have been - how much you were energetically assaulted by the role and eventually had to back off - but have to say that in this last post you seem to be trying to rewrite reality.

Either you backed away - or were active; either Austin backed away - or was active.

Either Jade was eventually left with the lions share - unsupported - or she wasn't. (NB: I acknowledge Garry did a lot of unknown mod/cleaning up.)

I sense a refusal to fully 'own' your neglect of the forums. I sensed this from Austin also.

The thing is - you're not "in trouble" - being a moderator here would have been at times a distasteful, contaminating and Herculean task.

You have my respect that you ever were a mod in the first place; but you shouldn't have let the deterioration, the toxicity, slide for so long, and your continuing denial of the negativity of many (past) members (most now inactive or gone), and their posts remaining up - posts in direct breach of the guidelines, is frustrating.

Bring Fourth, the Ra material and L/L means a massive amount to you - is this why you find it so difficult to own your lapse in care-taking?

If I were you I'd have also become overwhelmed, ragged, and yet reluctant - unsure who to trust with taking over the role/s.

But you're making a show of taking responsibility - in a carefully written way that has just now denied the core flaws of moderation for so long here.

The irritation and displeasure of your feeling about the 'loud voices' who keep speaking to you things you don't want to hear - is very clear in this post.

I couldn't write this reply if there were no guideline breaching posts still up on this website - but there are countless - still up, un-moderated.

It's fact.

How hard and thankless a task to be a mod here. How hard it was for you and Austin, (and Garry and Jade) - I understand that and understand why you faded away in tiredness and distaste - but don't lie to yourselves or members.

I don't have time to go through the forums and screenshot posts that breach guidelines... but I could do that - to back up this reply to you.

(01-25-2021, 07:55 PM)Steppingfeet Wrote:  But the gripe is right that Bring4th needs more active and engaged stewardship from those charged with the responsibility of its care.

"gripe": "to complain about something in a persistent, irritating way"
"a complaint about something that is annoying but not very important."
"to complain about something in an annoying way"
- synonym: "to whinge"

No - the "gripe" is "that Bring4th needs more active and engaged stewardship from those charged with the responsibility of its care" and that there's been neglect of far more basic essential moderation - in allowing regular guideline breaches.

(01-25-2021, 07:55 PM)Steppingfeet Wrote:  That's where we failed and that's where we are actively bending every effort to permanently solve for that problem, thanks in large part to the generosity of a new circle of friends.

No - it's not just that area you failed in - yes - it's excellent that you're now making changes.

My issue is that it didn't happen years back when I brought it repeatedly to Austin's attention. I told him that this would occur.

(01-25-2021, 07:55 PM)Steppingfeet Wrote:  The unequivocal fact of the matter is that if it was a choice between me being an active steward or letting bring forth go, it would have to be the latter. Without cloning myself in triplicate, it is simply something I cannot do. Austin has some more bandwidth but I think he would feel largely the same. It is not for lack of genuine care or belief in the forums (else why make any effort?), but the energy logistics of bandwidth.

Yes - and this is what (imo) paralysed you. You mustn't have felt confident with choosing anyone to replace you; or I guess (?) you would have. I don't know what I would have done in your shoes either. The degree of control required for moderating very lengthy, very thorough guidelines is a big responsibility to place in someone's hands. The only remedy I can think of for that period of time for the forums, would have been an even more "active stewardship" by dispassionately, lovingly, assertively removing breaches of the guidelines. I'll again refer to Glow's experience of other forums where access to them is contingent on demonstrating respectful behaviour even when in strong disagreement.

B4 was very passive-aggressive and/or combative when I first joined - and after a while I became defensive and acerbic in response. I apologise for this.

I kept returning because I couldn't drown out 'internal prompts' to return, despite doing much energy work to cut any cords, cleanse my energy, and disconnect overall. The sense I had was that I was filling some sort of (reluctant) role as a catalyst/irritant/mirror here. I knew it was to teach me as well. When I finally severed there was no effort to do so - which I take as my participation/the reasons having run its/their course.

There was strongly negative contamination here - both literally (by actual persons) and etheric.

NB: I don't advocate for always 'pleasant' sanitised interactions here - disagreement is where learning occurs; its that the energy behind words can be felt often - but often inaccurately as much as clearly. So we must do our best to default to polite respectful communication. One of the reasons I first permanently stopped (regularly) posting here is because for so many posts I could not do that - so chose silence instead.

Lastly - I offer that I may be inaccurate in my assessment of behind the scenes moderation efforts - but the forums themselves do show guideline breaches throughout.

Perhaps the moderation that you insist has always been done was of very violent, insane, psychotic or nefarious people we never even got to have to endure the online presence of. (?)
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01-26-2021, 12:39 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
  
A couple of quick thoughts, Relax.  1. For what it's worth, I find your forthrightness contributes a sense of courage and determination which is useful here.  2. Personally, I've decided that if someone has a blind spot, hammering him repeatedly about this becomes counterproductive past  the point where the inflicted pain is more noticeable than even the concept of a defect in perception.  This is to say, you might consider how much you're tightening the screws to satisfy a desire for recognition of a situation might actually be inhibiting the ability of those entrusted to move this forward to actually move this forward.  3. Being strongly supportive now and then can sometimes be a very effective catalyst for change/improvement.....or so I've been told
   

I'm guessing that when a strong determination to sort things out enters the ring from one corner and a strong determination to lead the flock to green pastures comes out from another corner of the ring, then maybe the two can learn to dance together without tripping up too much and these forums can learn to function credibly, sustainably and sometimes beautifully with an overall sense of balance and some degree of mature poise?

It's worth a try, eh?
  
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Relax
01-26-2021, 01:10 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-26-2021, 07:02 AM)Relax Wrote:  B4 was very passive-aggressive and/or combative when I first joined - and after a while I became defensive and acerbic in response. I apologise for this.

You make a good point here, Relax, because we are all dealing with catalyst and working things out in our own way. I think we all have blind spots—certainly I do. Empathy also can work that way—the flexible kind of emotional response that creates a resonance with the source and unwittingly follows it. We all react and get triggered from different sources. That is NOT to say that the guidelines shouldn't be followed—there is a standard of interaction here that may be difficult at times to draw a line on, but the intention has always been there to do so. Again—blind spots exist in us all.


(01-26-2021, 07:02 AM)Relax Wrote:  I kept returning because I couldn't drown out 'internal prompts' to return, despite doing much energy work to cut any cords, cleanse my energy, and disconnect overall. The sense I had was that I was filling some sort of (reluctant) role as a catalyst/irritant/mirror here. I knew it was to teach me as well. When I finally severed there was no effort to do so - which I take as my participation/the reasons having run its/their course.

If you are prompted to participate, I would encourage you to follow that prompt. You are not just an irritant—you have added value and insight to many a conversation. There were times when I wanted to leave as well, but it is not in my nature to close doors, and I'm glad I didn't because I learned and evolved from staying here and facing the catalyst that arose.

Whoever has been involved in the way things went down in the past have their own catalyst to face or not, and deal with in THEIR own ways. There has been a lot of valuable feedback in this thread, and L/L has now formed a new moderating team in response to it. So let's see where we go and how we evolve together.
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01-26-2021, 03:28 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-26-2021, 03:28 PM by Aion.)
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-26-2021, 01:10 PM)Diana Wrote:  
(01-26-2021, 07:02 AM)Relax Wrote:  B4 was very passive-aggressive and/or combative when I first joined - and after a while I became defensive and acerbic in response. I apologise for this.

You make a good point here, Relax, because we are all dealing with catalyst and working things out in our own way. I think we all have blind spots—certainly I do. Empathy also can work that way—the flexible kind of emotional response that creates a resonance with the source and unwittingly follows it. We all react and get triggered from different sources. That is NOT to say that the guidelines shouldn't be followed—there is a standard of interaction here that may be difficult at times to draw a line on, but the intention has always been there to do so. Again—blind spots exist in us all.



(01-26-2021, 07:02 AM)Relax Wrote:  I kept returning because I couldn't drown out 'internal prompts' to return, despite doing much energy work to cut any cords, cleanse my energy, and disconnect overall. The sense I had was that I was filling some sort of (reluctant) role as a catalyst/irritant/mirror here. I knew it was to teach me as well. When I finally severed there was no effort to do so - which I take as my participation/the reasons having run its/their course.

If you are prompted to participate, I would encourage you to follow that prompt. You are not just an irritant—you have added value and insight to many a conversation. There were times when I wanted to leave as well, but it is not in my nature to close doors, and I'm glad I didn't because I learned and evolved from staying here and facing the catalyst that arose.

Whoever has been involved in the way things went down in the past have their own catalyst to face or not, and deal with in THEIR own ways. There has been a lot of valuable feedback in this thread, and L/L has now formed a new moderating team in response to it. So let's see where we go and how we evolve together.

I would also add to this that the contents of the forum are MASSIVE, it is an extravagant task to sift through for offending material which will take plenty of time as we all have lives as well. In my opinion, I think it would however be very useful and helpful if individuals who see problematic posts utilize the 'Report' function (down in the bottom right of every post for those who are not familiar) as a way to aid us in speeding up this process of screening. You may see something we don't, this is a way you can bring it to our attention easily, you can even leave us a note. We will then do our best to review the post as soon as we are able and determine how it may be addressed or if it needs to be removed. This is not an obligation nor a demand by any means, just a suggestion as a way to "help us, help you", so to speak. Our efforts are of course, ongoing, but there is literally more than a decade of material on this website, I would reiterate the notion that things take time.

I encourage participation, there is no community without it.
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01-26-2021, 04:37 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
When a given individual feels there is the feeling or sensation of being unacknowledged, there is the tendency to stick to already known biases, thus effectively closing themselves to the new.

This has correspondent physical effects for comparison, such as fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, etc.

So, in order to foster a thriving community (or society), it is paramount to recognize not just what is being directly communicated by any individual in any given moment, but also what is the emotional message that underlies in latent meaning within what is being explicitly said.

For instance: a speech of the importance of moderation might have the latent emotional meaning of a feeling of abandonment, of a lack of acknowledgment, of a lack of relatability and connection between the interlocutor and the audience.

Thus operates the catalyst for the opportunity of exercising empathy, understanding, compassion, acknowledgment, and so on.

After all, as Diana said, we're all dealing with our stuff here. Each one here has pains and sufferings pertinent and relative to each individual, and I personally don't think there can be a measure of comparison between emotional states between individuals, which is why understanding and compassion are of utmost importance to the success of any community or society and more especially to the success of Earth's transitioning period:

(01-26-2021, 01:10 PM)Diana Wrote:  
(01-26-2021, 07:02 AM)Relax Wrote:  B4 was very passive-aggressive and/or combative when I first joined - and after a while I became defensive and acerbic in response. I apologise for this.

You make a good point here, Relax, because we are all dealing with catalyst and working things out in our own way. I think we all have blind spots—certainly I do. Empathy also can work that way—the flexible kind of emotional response that creates a resonance with the source and unwittingly follows it. We all react and get triggered from different sources.

(01-26-2021, 07:02 AM)Relax Wrote:  There was strongly negative contamination here - both literally (by actual persons) and etheric.

In the world that we inhabit, negative influences are kind of inevitable. Learning to detect the patterns employed by such energies, and how they operate, might be the first step to actually learning and assimilating the lessons brought forth by these catalysts.

Also, etheric is indissociable with the physical, especially in a transitioning planet with many intertwining dimensions. If there actually occurs a massive planetary transition to 4D and people suddenly find themselves operating on a new Density level, it would be important to know how to stand one's own ground, and by doing so, learning how these etheric fluid dynamics operate. We have this opportunity every single day, with the catalysts that life on Earth provides, be it online or offline.

This being said, it is also important to maintain psychic hygiene alongside the physical, mental, and emotional hygienes.

The exchange of information and knowledge that these forums provide is invaluable. Even if users are not actively participating.
As Aion said, there are years and years of meaningful material posted here. Which is one of the many reasons that I consider that the closure and the archiving of these forums (such as suggested by the OP) is a ludicrous idea, much probably like the avoidance of catalyst (which implies avoidance of learning, and consequently evolving).

Even though OP has changed the tone alongside this thread, it is important to keep in mind that isolation and segregation are the tools of the negative polarization in order to keep the suffering status quo rolling on, feeding their ranks with the emotional fuel brought forth by the emotional states that come from isolation, resentment, hopelessness, etc.

(01-26-2021, 07:02 AM)Relax Wrote:  I can imagine how much work it is and would have been - how much you were energetically assaulted by the role and eventually had to back off - but have to say that in this last post you seem to be trying to rewrite reality.

There is a fine line between reconciliation, making amends with; and denial, neglect; in regards to a given issue.

To overlook what has occurred is as detrimental as overstating the importance of the facts.
In other words, to acknowledge the facts is vital, but to not overstate or over-dramatize them is of equanimous importance. Because, after all, maybe such indulgence in emotional content is more of a call for nurture, for compassion and kindness, and less of the focus on the negative drama, so to speak.

This is why is so important to keep an open heart; which sometimes may hurt.

More on this subject of keeping an open heart in: The Midnight Gospel, S01E08: Mouse of Silver. A worthwhile watch.

(01-26-2021, 12:39 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:    
A couple of quick thoughts, Relax.  1. For what it's worth, I find your forthrightness contributes a sense of courage and determination which is useful here.  2. Personally, I've decided that if someone has a blind spot, hammering him repeatedly about this becomes counterproductive past  the point where the inflicted pain is more noticeable than even the concept of a defect in perception.  This is to say, you might consider how much you're tightening the screws to satisfy a desire for recognition of a situation might actually be inhibiting the ability of those entrusted to move this forward to actually move this forward.  3. Being strongly supportive now and then can sometimes be a very effective catalyst for change/improvement.....or so I've been told
   

I'm guessing that when a strong determination to sort things out enters the ring from one corner and a strong determination to lead the flock to green pastures comes out from another corner of the ring, then maybe the two can learn to dance together without tripping up too much and these forums can learn to function credibly, sustainably and sometimes beautifully with an overall sense of balance and some degree of mature poise?

It's worth a try, eh?
  

I wonder why is that user Sacred Fool leave blank spots in their posts, even formatted ones, such as in this: an italic-formatted, four space characters.

Anyhow, point no. 2 is a fairly perceptive and practical point, with social importance, as it often happens on a social scale, this repetitive hammering about a claim, which turns out to be counter-productive and also staggers and blocks the flow of the heart.

(01-26-2021, 01:10 PM)Diana Wrote:  If you are prompted to participate, I would encourage you to follow that prompt. You are not just an irritant—you have added value and insight to many a conversation.

More often than not, certain legitimate revindications are only heard when there is noise along with it. The saying "the squeaky wheel that gets the grease" has practical wisdom associated with it, and unfortunately, this is often the case: sometimes stating a query nicely won't cut it, due to the standpoint of rigidity and intransigence, or attachment to, old biases, from the counterparts associated with the revindications.
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Relax
01-26-2021, 11:13 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
Relax does make a simple and unambiguous point.

The guidelines may be great, and they may be a central ingredient in the renewed vision, but they were visibly not upheld when this thread was started, nor were they in connection with earlier, related ruckuses. That's got plenty to do with why the whole discussion in this thread really took off in the first place. (I think participants would be able to remember this on reflection.)

Now, it's great that things are moving towards something nicer and more viable, including solving the apparent long-standing problem that there were too few people working on moderation, etc., in the past, which has probably got a lot to do with why people burned out in the past. With enough participants in the new circle to share the load, it begins to look much more realistic that a standard such as that of the guidelines can be upheld in practice long-term, which is again great.

Now, Relax wondered what the feet (which the organization thinks on) meant by moderation being done back when moderators visibly looked the other way a lot when the guidelines were breached. In the absence of an official answer, my guess is that it may have to do with combating spam. I haven't seen real, honest-to-crookedness spam on this forum, while it's a problem on many forums, suggesting that some work may be and have been done to keep it out.

So, was it a gaffe on the part of the feet to make it sound as if the guidelines were upheld in the recent past when the moderation effort seemingly had, in effect, tightened its belt a lot and been reduced to keeping outright for-profit trash out of the forum? I think so, it wasn't clear communication. Clarifying that point more definitely and officially remains, but it isn't bigger or trickier than that sounds in principle.

I do suggest that people, in and out of working groups trying to solve stuff, take care to avoid losing track of recent history. My experience from elsewhere is that when a group loses its memory of recent history when the plot follows a new twist (even a good one), this is risky, the hazard being a growth of new tunnel visions to replace old, and a dumbing-down in the form of blocking out already-available data and shared experience from mental activity, participants then no longer informed in ways they previously were. I point this out because I don't want to see a collective shooting in the foot develop from a nice and promising re-start.
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01-26-2021, 11:38 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-26-2021, 04:37 PM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:  
Thus operates the catalyst for the opportunity of exercising empathy, understanding, compassion, acknowledgment, and so on.

After all, as Diana said, we're all dealing with our stuff here. Each one here has pains and sufferings pertinent and relative to each individual, and I personally don't think there can be a measure of comparison between emotional states between individuals, which is why understanding and compassion are of utmost importance to the success of any community or society and more especially to the success of Earth's transitioning period:

I think this is one of the most important things both as posters and as stewards, and stewards are posters too. Evidently not always simple when you are living through catalyst yourself so again it becomes the central point.
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01-27-2021, 02:49 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
Revisiting some earlier posts and replying since there seems to be some potentially fruitful thought trains:

(01-18-2021, 02:30 PM)Patrick Wrote:  There is a cleansing storm coming (4D).  It is a matter of taste whether we remain outside in the elements to be cleansed by the rain or if we build ourselves a nice cozy place to weather the storm.  This forum could be such a "safe" place.  Or at least a place giving instructions on how to make yourself a safe spot for those wishing this.

Entities cannot escape/dodge the pre-incarnational responsibilities they took on, including being (or not being) inside the societal turmoils of change from 3d negative society to 4d positive society. Family, friends, colleagues, work, social circle - all kinds of things connect people to different points in the society. Leaving aside any pre-incarnational responsibility that was taken on related to spiritual work - ie, like the wanderers who incarnated to smoothen the planetary vibrations.

So there is no escaping one's own responsibility without actually dropping those responsibilities. And if such a decision is not taken by the entity (in mostly a subconscious level), there is no way to create safe spaces to protect such people from such turmoil.

In contrast, someone who arranged to not be in such turmoil would not need any protection.

However the latter proposition of providing information and different methods which different people found in countering such wear & tear as inflicted by the turmoil can definitely be done and definitely should be done.

....

Green is a ray that exposes everything as it is. The good, the bad, the ugly, the obscure the 'meh', the pesky, the wonderful, 'the everything'. All of those and an infinite number of other traits are all divine.

Green does not provide for ignoring what is undesirable and pretending only the desirable exists. Hence being the ray of acceptance. The optimal way forward for positive entities is to see everything as it is, tell themselves 'Well, such a thing also exists, apparently', and move on. The differences are harmonized by working through them and bringing different entities to fit together with their differences as if putting together legos or tetris pieces.

In that tangent, there were a lot of people who were following the christian mythology in which everything would just turn great with a bang. Due to how this mythology took hold in social consciousness in especially Western hemisphere. Even in spiritualist literature. Which was contrary to what Ra told about how there not being any special event which wanderers were incarnating for, neither any event which they were incarnating to help materialize, and how everyone would be living and dying normally instead of any 'ascension' happening. And how a minimum of 150 years of time was given for even an early 4d society materializing. A lot of people kept following the christian religious mythology despite that. And got frustrated. Such expectations like the one mentioned seem to have roots in that.

So it turns out, just like how it was said, we, the people, are going to create our own 4th density society slowly, bit by bit, by going through all the good and all the bad. That's some reality which may take some time for many to come to terms with.

Come to terms with it, they must, and that is when the spiritual childhood ends and the journey begins.

(01-20-2021, 03:19 AM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:  This really seems like a totalitarian covert speech.

It definitely is.

(01-20-2021, 03:19 AM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:  Which is one of the many reasons that I consider that the closure and the archiving of these forums (such as suggested by the OP) is a ludicrous idea

Definitely. Especially after it turned out to be related to how he didnt want to see perspectives he did not agree with, wanting them to be 'moderated but not too much'.

Quote:Even though OP has changed the tone alongside this thread

Indeed, as the outrageous propositions got backlash, the tone and ways of posing the propositions changed, without changing their nature - leading to the roundabout way to advocate for actual suppression of 'undesirables' by using all relevant censorship keywords but claiming it was not totalitarian.

Just like how outright request for 'wisdom types getting moderated but not too much' was outright denied to be made a few pages later in an incredible case of gaslighting, and changed to the roundabout advocacy of 'direction and purpose'.


...

However the request still stays the same in nature. With embellished words and seemingly good intentions but always advocating suppression of undesirable perspectives so a 'safe space' for one's own bias could be created, harkening back to 'good old days' which were 'better'.

I very much think that such self-indulged desires should not have been accommodated to this extent as forum administration did. A lot of talk was done, pages of thread, numerous responses by an administration who are chronically and understandably short of time. So much that the person who wanted 'wisdom types moderated but not too much' was even offered moderator role by the administration. Which is pretty disturbing to say the least. Especially those who are in the target demographic of 'wisdom types' like me.

There is nothing wrong with people discussing their views, even be it advocating actual suppression of 'undesirables'. But administration accommodating such advocacy to such an extent, is definitely unsettling.

...

To chime in on the topic of online social venues and their moderation:

Having run ~5 different forums and communities of different types, having been working in information technology for a long time, i can say that moderation of online content is something geometrically more difficult than what members who are vaguely aware of its difficulty here propose.

There are bots, there is manual spam from click farms, which actual people post the spam, in ways that may not even be noticeable at the start - even so much that there are farms in which farmers pretend to be legitimate members and post regularly for a few days or even weeks and then start spam, there are vandals, there are people with actual psychological disorders, stolen accounts, all kinds of things. There are even private 'opinion shaping' companies who propagate whatever 'narrative' who their clients propagate, after US having legalized such private businesses circa 2010. Not to mention similar outfits spawning everywhere around the world after US led the way.

So when the administration says there has been moderation going on even if people did not notice it, they are telling the truth.

For, how many viagra ads/spam per week have you seen on this forum on average? And that's only viagra. From financial spam to bitcoin, there are a zillion click farms out there.

Therefore yeah, to trained eyes, its evident that moderation was happening in the forum since its inception. It may not have been in the direction which you would prefer, but it was happening.

...

And speaking of directions - leaving aside the blunt advocacy of repressing those who conflict one's own personal biases as per the original post of this thread:

Not every culture is the same, and what is the contemporary civilized discourse or desirable behavior/narrative of a given culture is not another culture's contemporary civilized discourse or desirable behavior.

I see some posts advocating certain paradigms that are considered desirable or civilized in certain Angloamerican countries, for example. These do not apply to other cultures, neither they can be labeled as positive just because they are considered as such by certain segments in those certain cultures.

For example im not American, and i have no desire to behave as an American and i dont intend on sticking to modern cultural paradigms of contemporary American society. I could use such paradigms when i am communicating with an American member to be able to convey what im trying to say, but other than that, it does not pertain to me. I very much think that many other international members would feel the same.

And i say that as being someone who actually is familiar with contemporary Angloamerican discourse, its nuances in different countries from US to UK. There are many members who would not even understand enough english to be able to get certain phrases/metaphors, and hell, there are even people who interact with Ra material related communities like people who use translator in LL's Facebook group.

So i very much think that trying to enforce the cultural paradigm of any contemporary culture from any region of the world would be counter productive since this is an international venue.
can reach me@ unity100-gmail
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01-27-2021, 04:27 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
  
A person who says, "I am a wisdom type," is actually saying, "I am imbalanced in favor of wisdom."  One might suppose that a person who is truly wise--not merely knowledgeable nor simply opinionated--would say, "I am of the type which seeks to know love that I may learn to balance that with excessive wisdom, because love is the fundament of Creation."

I can't speak for anyone else, but that's how I feel regarding my own dear self.

   
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01-27-2021, 04:45 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
All good stuff Unity.  I think I could sum up the best "safe" place that I know of as, living in the now.  Pretty cliché yes, but that's still one of my favorite advice.  I put this upfront and then I can spend countless hours discussing what it actually means to live in the Now. Wink

A ginormous amount of things people worry about have no actual existence.  Because we worry about future issues, which very often do not actually manifest.

So if a spiritual site can just inspire some of this kind of advice, it can have a very real "protective" effect on everyday life.
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01-27-2021, 05:01 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-27-2021, 05:03 PM by Louisabell.)
RE: Should these forums be closed?
I really like that Patrick. For me, a "safe space" is a place where people are given permission to be human, to make mistakes, to entertain and experiment with ideas without having permanent labels put on them, while also being receptive when told that a certain idea may be a cause of pain and suffering in the other.

Ultimately, it is a place of acceptance, we accept ourselves, we accept others, we accept that we are all changing and evolving all the time. This for me denotes a STO community. But it takes a community wide effort to establish such a culture, because it is oh so easy to pick and choose what we feel is acceptable and unacceptable to judge in the other.
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01-27-2021, 05:41 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 04:45 PM)Patrick Wrote:  I think I could sum up the best "safe" place that I know of as, living in the now. 

So, in the case of post #420 on the previous page of this thread, for example, some people would consider that mean spirited.  If a new member were treated that way, I would report it.  What would you say to a new member insulted such wise, Patrick?  Would you tell that person to live in the now or would you feel the posting member should be reprimanded for attacking his fellow?  Do you feel that allowing that sort of smear is a good thing for these forums?

It's quite convenient to have a real life example provided for us, isn't it?
   
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01-27-2021, 05:46 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 05:01 PM)Louisabell Wrote:  I really like that Patrick. For me, a "safe space" is a place where people are given permission to be human, to make mistakes, to entertain and experiment with ideas without having permanent labels put on them, while also being receptive when told that a certain idea may be a cause of pain and suffering in the other.

Exactly, those who label other posters of being 'imbalanced', 'STS-like’, 'belicose’, 'detuning’, or create false dichotomies and other questionable premises to slander points of view in ad-homin style attacks, fall very close to those dogmatic religious fundamentalist types who regularly refer to heretics and other impure types.

While it's one thing to express oneself using those terms against people in general discourse, using them against people as a weapon to justify censoring them is on another level. Hopefully both aspects can simply be ignored for what they are, and we can all learn from it without feeling threatened.
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01-27-2021, 05:53 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
 
It's very interesting to see how what Jade described happened to her seems now to be happening to me.  How odd that when one extends a hand to help others who may be less robust by suggesting a certain level of decorum be observed, others will seize that hand and try to wrap your arm around your throat.  Weird.
   
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01-27-2021, 07:36 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 05:41 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  
(01-27-2021, 04:45 PM)Patrick Wrote:  I think I could sum up the best "safe" place that I know of as, living in the now. 

So, in the case of post #420 on the previous page of this thread, for example, some people would consider that mean spirited.  If a new member were treated that way, I would report it.  What would you say to a new member insulted such wise, Patrick?  Would you tell that person to live in the now or would you feel the posting member should be reprimanded for attacking his fellow?  Do you feel that allowing that sort of smear is a good thing for these forums?

It's quite convenient to have a real life example provided for us, isn't it?
   

Do you mean this post?  If so, please understand that I am not trying to be dense, but I do not see what you are pointing out.  I think you'll have to be more direct with me.  What is mean spirited?

Regarding living in the now, to me it means for example to stop worrying about how we'll pay the next round of bills after being laid off because of Covid.  If there is nothing that can be done about a situation, then let it go.  It will sort itself out.  The Universe is just weird like that.
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01-27-2021, 07:39 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 07:36 PM)Patrick Wrote:  Do you mean this post

Negative.  Three below, four hundred twenty.

  
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01-27-2021, 07:47 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 07:39 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  
(01-27-2021, 07:36 PM)Patrick Wrote:  Do you mean this post

Negative.  Three below, four hundred twenty.

It looks like the numbering is not the same for all.

For example, your post above is #444 for me (see screenshot).  Nice number by the way. Wink

So I think it's better to link directly to posts.  Now, I'll go read that post and see what you meant: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=18544&pid=287711#pid287711


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01-27-2021, 08:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-27-2021, 08:01 PM by Sacred Fool.)
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 07:47 PM)Patrick Wrote:  For example, your post above is #444 for me (see screenshot).  Nice number by the way. Wink

That's odd.  When I clicked on your first link it said that post was 417.  I tell ya, this is one quirky universe!
   
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01-27-2021, 08:14 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 05:41 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  
(01-27-2021, 04:45 PM)Patrick Wrote:  I think I could sum up the best "safe" place that I know of as, living in the now. 

So, in the case of post #420 on the previous page of this thread, for example, some people would consider that mean spirited.  If a new member were treated that way, I would report it.  What would you say to a new member insulted such wise, Patrick?  Would you tell that person to live in the now or would you feel the posting member should be reprimanded for attacking his fellow?  Do you feel that allowing that sort of smear is a good thing for these forums?

It's quite convenient to have a real life example provided for us, isn't it?
   

This is the post you're referring to:

(01-22-2021, 12:59 PM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:  
(01-20-2021, 10:31 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  
William Blake Wrote:Both read the Bible day and night,
But thou read'st black where I read white.

[Image: tao.jpg]

Really a funny thing isn't it.



(01-20-2021, 10:31 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  Where you see totalitarianism (rather exaggerated, I might add), I see creativity, I see purpose, I see opening to higher vibrations of love and harmony while remaining grounded in planetary responsibility

I wonder where did you get the impression that I see or don't see anything at all in the first place.

Anyways, responsibility stiffened and backed up with intransigence, bigotry, is more of a disservice due to contradiction of the very same premises that the actions or lack thereof may cause to other-Selves.
To purge? "Next level"? "Disruptive members"? According to what protocol, if All is One, and One is All?

This clinging to external sources to base decisions is an act of overabundance of wisdom whilst also lacking in understanding, compassion, acceptance, kindness — virtues emphasized countless times both by the Ra Channelings and by other sources such as Q'uo, Latwii, Hatonn, Yadda, etc.



(01-20-2021, 10:31 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  This probably sounds wildly heretical and radical, but I also see an effort to create a space of love to offer a soft landing to new STO generations of humans.

Efforts are paramount, especially when coming from a place of open heart, which is the whole point of the Harvest — the ability of each harvestable individual to hold within the energies of the Green Ray, which are directly correlated to compassion, understanding, nurturing, loving one another. A space of "love" that ostracizes people considered "disruptive" is a space of stagnation, instead.

For if thou turn your back against your similar, how thou expect to find acceptance, forgiveness, and compassion when thou needest it?



(01-20-2021, 10:31 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  This does not mean eliminating space for scruffy 3D refugees (myself, included) [...],

It doesn't, huh? Let's take a look at your previous post:



(01-19-2021, 04:47 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  As to the necessity of moderating disruptive members, this is a fact that needs to be addressed somehow, somewhere, some time.

(01-19-2021, 04:47 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  Possibly, most of us agree that [...]

Utilitarianism (a negative and limited brotherhood pattern) is pointless before The Law of One, for All is One, and One is All. There is no "most of us" in Unity, for that would imply divisiveness. Guess who benefits from division?



(01-19-2021, 04:47 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  spam and bots should be purged?

Funny thing, this purging thing. Why would One purge One, if One is All? Unless it is due to some aversion to other-Selves, which isn't really the proposed thing of an accepting environment that promulgates The Law of One.



(01-19-2021, 04:47 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  What's the next level?  Members who directly, unequivocally abuse others or propound a negative ideology?

Wow, "unequivocally abuse others". How can a Fool be so certain of something?

And, wow, already wishfully thinking on the next level, huh. This pattern strikes as an ideology that isn't very consonant with Unity.



(01-19-2021, 04:47 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  These might fall under things which "...are considered to be not in alignment with the principles of spiritual evolution espoused by Confederation sources and are thus subject to moderation and/or removal." 

Keywords highlighted and emphasized for pattern exposure.



(01-19-2021, 04:47 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  The Guidelines say that this or that is forbidden or not tolerated,[...]

Funny thing, this clinging to certain guidelines, scripts, or whatever, isn't it? Especially when trying to propose a change that benefits divisiveness under the guise of creating a nurturing environment (even if to achieve this end, the "purging" of non-consonant members is to be applied). I don't think a Fool is qualified to be a judge anyway.

Besides, harvestability, once again, is about an open heart. Compassion, capicci? Forgiveness. If thou dost not forgive, how dost thou expect to be forgiven?



(01-19-2021, 04:47 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  but it does mean defining and defending space for the less robust, same as you would put up a symbolic fence around a tiny tree to discourage trampling.

A fence, huh? Such as the quarantine (both cosmic and human) which actually fosters divisiveness and isolation from people within in regards to people outside the current planetary grid? Is that your proposal? I don't consider it to be very compassionate.

Even funnier is to see someone who started a thread proposing the closure and archiving of the whole forums now apparently willing to create a loving environment for a "soft landing". The ironies are indeed endless.

Which has the context of the quotes embedded within the post, which, in their turn, are also subject to the circumstances of the previous posts.


(01-27-2021, 05:53 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:   
It's very interesting to see how what Jade described happened to her seems now to be happening to me.  How odd that when one extends a hand to help others who may be less robust by suggesting a certain level of decorum be observed, others will seize that hand and try to wrap your arm around your throatWeird.
   

Keywords and arguments highlighted for pattern evidencing.

Argument detected: postulation of oppressed, nameless, faceless, "others". High probability of projection defense mechanism. High probability of, due to the vagueness of the precision of the attribution, an arbitrary choosing of "others'" assumed behaviors.
Argument detected: self-centered argument, under the guise of the suggestion of a seeming victimization. Perceptive bias centered on the individual.
Argument detected: non sequitur fallacy - affirming the consequent (when one extends a hand, others will do x). Correlation does not imply causation, and tailoring an argument like that denotes underlying manipulation centered in the Self.

Keyword "odd"
Cross-reference 1: Latin odium; hatred.
Online Etymology Dictionary Wrote:odium (n.)
c. 1600, "fact of being hated," from Latin odium "ill-will, hatred, grudge, animosity; offense, offensive conduct," related to odi "I hate" (infinitive odisse), from PIE *eod-io- "hatred" (source also of Greek odyssasthai "to be angry, be grieved, grumble," Armenian ateam "I hate," Old Norse atall, Old English atol "evil, dire, horrid, loathsome"). Meaning "hatred, detestation" is from 1650s. Often in an extended form, such as odium theologicum "hatred which is proverbially characteristic of theological disputes" (1670s).

Cross-reference 2: October 10, 1998. Cassiopaean Experiment.
Quote:Q: (A) Who were the Elohim?
A: Elohim refers to past, as a connection to future as envisioned in your dream. It is the connector that counts, see?? Ruling council of Od; Odiem.

Q: (L) What about the Seraphim?
A: Council in clouds... We are speaking of advanced insight here.

Q: (L) Why were there 300 Elohim and 301 Seraphim?
A: Who is the odd one out?

Q: (A) Who is the odd one out?
A: Check your roots. Od, odiem, odd, could we spell it out any clearer for you? Not without abridging free will!

Well, one of the possibilities: the "odd" one out could be a fallen angel, and that associated keywords and behaviors that emphasize differences instead of similarities might be associated with such entity. Hypothetically.

(01-27-2021, 05:41 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  So, in the case of post #420 on the previous page of this thread, for example, some people would consider that mean spirited.  If a new member were treated that way, I would report it.  What would you say to a new member insulted such wise, Patrick?  Would you tell that person to live in the now or would you feel the posting member should be reprimanded for attacking his fellow?  Do you feel that allowing that sort of smear is a good thing for these forums?

It's quite convenient to have a real life example provided for us, isn't it?
   

Argument detected: postulation of oppressed, nameless, faceless, "others". High probability of projection defense mechanism. High probability of, due to the vagueness of the precision of the attribution, an arbitrary choosing of "others'" assumed behaviors.
Argument detected: projection of an exaggeratedly dramatized "other" (in the form of a new member), to found an argument against a post typed directly towards Mr. Fool.
Argument detected: misdirection of an issue of the Self towards a third referential, in order to confound the interlocutor so as to not consider that perhaps the third referential could be, in fact, the one who is saying it instead of an external reference.
Argument detected: implication of punishment. Context: a directed post in reply to a message directed towards me.
Contradiction detected: keyword "decorum" does not relate to punishment, as decorum implies a well-educated, mature environment, in which disagreements can be held without the feeling of personal offence, which may be, perchance, a display of unmet emotional needs.
Behavior detected: ignoring users who interact but have diverging standpoints, whilst engaging with users that show some display of resonance. Moreover, interpersonal interactions by Mr. Fool have shown, in this topic, to have the connotation of unnecessary instigation and outright "deletion of undesirable content": the forums in the first place, and since this tactic didn't work, the undesirable content is thought to be specific, well-written posts, and users, under the guise of discipline which coverts punishment due to the lack of acceptance of differences in an adult, mature, environment.


Not only I had the good-hearted awe and the decorum to compliment Mr. Fool's post contents, such as here:

(01-26-2021, 04:37 PM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:  I wonder why is that user Sacred Fool leave blank spots in their posts, even formatted ones, such as in this: an italic-formatted, four space characters.

Anyhow, point no. 2 is a fairly perceptive and practical point, with social importance, as it often happens on a social scale, this repetitive hammering about a claim, which turns out to be counter-productive and also staggers and blocks the flow of the heart.

I also had the elegance to send this user a private message complimenting them and warning them about the patterns that were displayed throughout their posts, in a display of good-will so as to offer a different perspective which could, perhaps, save this user a lot of headaches. I considered that it would be pointless to expose this user with the following message, which is why I sent it privately.

Since, however, I was mentioned indirectly, and also considering the message's content has Universal value, it shall be disclosed.

It's worth mentioning that I have never disclosed a private communication in any online forum before this day.
I don't like to resort to this at all. However, since I was personally stricken and attacked with the implication that the post that I wrote was worthy of a report and punishment — a well-written post, for that matter, which took a great deal of time and care of my part to type and format — the circumstances change.

Here is the content of the private message that I sent, on day 01-21-2021:

meadow-foreigner Wrote:
(01-21-2021, 01:02 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  
(01-20-2021, 11:02 PM)sillypumpkins Wrote:  I have an honest question. Does the positive path not contain both light and darkness?

I think Ra's "Are you not all things?" quote speaks well to your query.  Encompassing (or vibrating congruently with) all that is is the eventual outcome, according to the friendly aliens.  The aspect I was trying to bring out was not that, but what level of vibration one may or may not sink to when choosing to study or play in the dark, or what level of vibration one may or may not rise to when learning to incorporate angelic help and love in one's life.  It's clearly a free will choice (and not a static one), I was just offering a little light of awareness on the trade offs and the distinctions.  And that was exactly what was reflected back.

The OP presented a mirror and respondents saw themselves in it in one way or another, showing a wide spectrum of vibrations.  And so we move along as best we can, eh?

There's an entity, with a certain serpentine fashion, that operates and influences individuals on a subtle level. It often impersonalizes their attached (or rather leeched on) 3D entities, glossing and influencing the speech so that it comes across as neutral. It has a set of patterns. One hasn't — ironically — much of a choice but to dive into the reality and this means coming to the grips with the fact of who you are.

I've walked the path you seem to be walking right now. I know how this operates.

You strike me as a rather intelligent person. So there's some food for thought so you can hopefully empower yourself and also others in this process of untangling the web that you apparently seem to be struggling in.

You know. Hypothetically.

Also, beforehand, I apologize to every user that I had privately messaged up until this point, knowing that maybe other-Selves might not be willing to talk privately with me from now on.

However, the issues discussed are very serious and should be taken very seriously, because the patterns that occur here also occur everywhere else on the planet. Do know, though, that I don't fancy covertness and do take insidiousness very seriously, and as much as the part has the right to state their claims, so do I.
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01-27-2021, 09:37 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 08:14 PM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:  Also, beforehand, I apologize to every user that I had privately messaged up until this point, knowing that maybe other-Selves might not be willing to talk privately with me from now on.

We have messaged each other and I have not lost any trust in you. It just sounds like you feel pushed and not heard.

(01-27-2021, 08:14 PM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:  However, the issues discussed are very serious and should be taken very seriously, because the patterns that occur here also occur everywhere else on the planet.

I agree. I take this all seriously, and in particular, though perhaps not popular, is the idea of free will and freedom of expression.

And yes, what we do here does affect the planet, as all things do. But we here maybe understand this responsibility more than the average person.

As the 7 of us in the Community Stewardship Circle are taking everything in, including and especially this thread and others where members are expressing their concerns about B4, I think I can speak for us all when I say that we are really dedicated to finding the best way forward for these forums and all of its members.

(01-27-2021, 08:14 PM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:  Do know, though, that I don't fancy covertness and do take insidiousness very seriously, and as much as the part has the right to state their claims, so do I.

Absolutely you have the right to your views. Everyone here does. I think I understand what you mean by insidiousness, but in perceiving it we all may have different takes on it. For example, what I may take as insidious (a passive-aggressive comment meant to further an agenda or poison an alternative view) may not have been consciously put. To complicate matters, how is one to penetrate the meaning of a person who is only represented as words on a page? I usually think I have a pretty good sense of it; but I am not so sure when I imagine meeting in person and getting to look into someone's eyes.

Point being, I think the most we can do is analyze the concepts, rather than the people making the comments. At least, that is what I try to do anyway. It seems a bit more productive if not completely transparent.
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01-27-2021, 10:03 PM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
 
Diana, I do appreciate your instinct to bring comfort to those feel left out.  And I also wonder how it is that explicit and repeated contravention to the forum guidelines do not inform your response to the above smear.  Were this pertaining to myself, you or anyone else, I would have the same query.

G uidelines Wrote:1) The Cornerstone
The key governing principle of the entire Bring4th community, and all L/L Research social media venues, is the request that all members treat others with respect, especially when disagreeing. The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author.

Though not every possible viewpoint has a place here, ours is a culture of tolerance that works to accept others as they are, and, in the event of disharmony, works firstly to find where the imbalance is within the self before seeking it out in the other.*

Participants are asked to keep the thought in the forefront of their minds at all times that each on this forum is the Creator.  We are all here to expand our knowledge, deepen our understanding, and support one another. We can do this by embodying values of respect, compassion, empathy, goodwill, loving-kindness, and all energies of the open heart that by reflect our divinity and true nature to each other. We are one being, and our work here should be oriented not toward separation, but unity.


* I wonder what the process for this looks like?


    
May all beings be happy.
May all beings find peace.
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01-27-2021, 11:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-27-2021, 11:23 PM by Diana.)
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 10:03 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:   
Diana, I do appreciate your instinct to bring comfort to those feel left out.  And I also wonder how it is that explicit and repeated contravention to the forum guidelines do not inform your response to the above smear.  Were this pertaining to myself, you or anyone else, I would have the same query.

...


* I wonder what the process for this looks like?

I don't know what it will look like. I'm still wrapping my head around the whole project.

In my last post, I have only tried to bring the direction back to a place of respect without blame. There are many buttons being pushed throughout this thread. I tend toward proactivity.
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01-28-2021, 01:50 AM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-27-2021, 11:12 PM)Diana Wrote:  In my last post, I have only tried to bring the direction back to a place of respect without blame.

But what about respect for the person being smeared?  I don't understand the lack of that.  Even if I'm talking about myself, I don't think that really matters.  Why the lacuna? 

And I'm asking not only you, Diana.  It's a broader inquiry.  It's a very interesting catacomb of curiosity.

Maybe it's because--as you say--this is a large thing for any of us to encompass?

Funny how this was here all the time and so perplexing...........
  
   
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01-28-2021, 03:54 AM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
  
You know, there's been a periodic argument in this thread that no members should ever be disciplined, regardless of how grotesque their behaviour, because All is One.  Of course, Ra deliberately sided with the STO persuasion in the sense that they withheld information at the point they thought it could be used for mainly negative purposes.  But this periodic chorus of "All is one, the negative and the positive are the same," reminded me of something and just now I realized what it is.

It's the three witches in Macbeth: Fair is Foul and Foul is Fair.....

It's tricky, isn't it?  If the negative and the positive paths are both equally legit, then why tune your channeling?  Why tune your forum?

I can offer only a limited perspective, as a mere humanoid sojourner, but I would pose this answer to my own question: you do so because, in a 3D context, that's what it means to serve Light and Love as deeply as you can.  If that's what life is all about for you, then that's what you do.  If it's about something else, then you do otherwise.  No harm, no foul......as it were.
   
  
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01-28-2021, 08:54 AM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-28-2021, 03:54 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  It's tricky, isn't it?  If the negative and the positive paths are both equally legit, then why tune your channeling?  Why tune your forum?

But what does it mean to tune to the positive?

One of the points I have been making is that the positive path is about acceptance and that too much control is in its essence negative. So tuning to the positive does not mean there can be no moderation whatsoever, but perhaps that the basic general attitude should be one of acceptance, understanding, patience and so on in dealing with things. Favorising inclusivity over exclusivity.

While the destination is great and all, it's really about the journey. Enjoy each step, other-self.
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01-28-2021, 10:48 AM,
RE: Should these forums be closed?
(01-28-2021, 08:54 AM)Minyatur Wrote:  
(01-28-2021, 03:54 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote:  It's tricky, isn't it?  If the negative and the positive paths are both equally legit, then why tune your channeling?  Why tune your forum?

But what does it mean to tune to the positive?

One of the points I have been making is that the positive path is about acceptance and that too much control is in its essence negative. So tuning to the positive does not mean there can be no moderation whatsoever, but perhaps that the basic general attitude should be one of acceptance, understanding, patience and so on in dealing with things. Favorising inclusivity over exclusivity.

According to Ra, where the positive path fails in acceptance is with accepting the attempts at control from the negatives.  But they say it's done out of necessity.

I believe the forums would benefit from members addressing ideas and arguments instead of other members.  Like for example, if one really wish to attack then attacking a member's arguments instead of the member itself.
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