female wanderers

[flow]

being a male, i always wonders how does the way back to the unity with One Infinite Creator feels from female perspective? i found myself lacking affinity with most of women, who just want to have a strong, succeful wealthy husband, have children and family. that's quite suffocating to me. i'm not judging these intrinsic female desires. red ray cakra is strong in both males snd females. but most of a time women don't give a **ck to anything but what is directly connected to procreation and material wealth. then i thought i've never probably met a female wanderer to give me insight and inspiration. is here an y female wanderers 20-40 years old? what's your take on males and your spiritual development?

[Navaratna]

From my experience most non-denominational spiritualist New/Age meditation or whatever groups are populated with more women than men. I could show videos of examples but that isn't really important. If you're expecting to get along with girls that are not interested in these topics then maybe that's why you aren't compatible with them.

You are kind of correct about how in particular Western women are kind of like that, but I wonder if you've ever traveled out of what I'm assuming is North America or Western Europe. People don't have such a repressive attitude towards guys wanting romantic relations. In the U.S. a girl the age of 23 will look at a guy the age 27 and think OMG HE'S OLDER than me but I've seen PLENTY of guys like 40 years old with hot 20 year old girls in public just enjoying themselves in other nations and no one....CARES AT ALL because there are so many poor people so many hundreds of millions of women are looking for a guy with just an average house or beat up car as long as he has some kind of money in those places--impressed by amounts which you couldn't live off for 3 weeks in the first world. Those cheap looking guys I've witnessed weren't rich and oftentimes didn't look so hot. They probably just had cars, an average house and maybe a few grand because the economic disparity between a place like the U.S. and anywhere in East Europe Latin america or Africa/swathes of Asia is -tremendous-.


LOL the idea of a 40 year old guy successfully getting a nice looking girl like 23 years old to live with him and even go out in public at regular public places like malls because he was SO MADE OF MONEY because he had...a few racks. The idea of that dynamic ever happening in Canada/Australia/US/UK ah...ahaha..AHAHAHAHa. More like "THAT GUY IS MILDLY UNATTRACTIVE, 32 years old AND ONLY HAS $10,000 INSTEAD OF $200,000 OMG AMANDA EWWW I CAN'T BELIEVE HE CATCALLED YOU! CALL CNN #METOO THIS TRAGEDY COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED!!!"

THEN YOUR PUPPY FELL ON A PART OF THE SIDEWALK..SCRAPED HIS KNEE! CALL YOUR DAD WHO WORKS AT HARVARD WE NEED TO SUE11111!!!! *Hysterical sobbing*
lol

It's incredible how starved the men in developed countries get as a result of the pressure they're put under to make enormous amounts of money. Many wind up without companionship even though there is nothing is wrong with them. They get older and are just thought of as the leftover dudes no one wanted as time drags on. Maybe I shouldn't sound so shallow, because not everything is about appearances. Not every female needs to look like an hourglass. Maybe lower your standards? I don't like how that sounds, but if you're in a country with a ton of people with money, and everyone wants the girls that you think are attractive.. they'll ignore you unless you have "something to offer" [lots of money] because their friends will criticize them for liking you even if they have a feel for you if you don't have stuff they want. That's happened to me many times. It's not important.

It's just I can't help but think of how many guys are independent and have an apartment..you need to have an enormous amount of money for a small apartment in the developed countries. small apartments won't impress people or be suitable to raise a family in. Why would a woman stay with a guy with a 1 bedroom apartment that will go up in cost every year that couldn't comfortably fit a family? Picture a guy who has money and it's not even an independence thing but he doesn't have a -ton- of additional money. A lot of them want kids, and unlike guys they can't wait forever. Infertility becomes a problem.

Renting a 1 bedroom apartment for 1500 dollars in a major city over 30 years amounts to 540,000 in rent. Not counting utilities, rent adjustment, and other factors. There's plenty of reasons a lot of people in the 70s ditched the U.S. The immense financial pressure people are put under limits their freedom immensely and it's like some tribal taboo to mention it. Plenty of people straight up left the U.S. in the 60s and 70s for this exact reason. You work full time or you can easily become homeless. No one will adopt you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail

A lot of people went to Lake Atitlan

Women look for a provider and if you aren't a provider, it's a big issue and these days it means you make the many many thousands of dollars you need to have an average lifestyle. I can think of a way to sugarcoat it.

It's why guys aren't interested in these things as much as I wish they were. They know they're under this pressure if they want companionship. Just going to these New Age groups doesn't necessarily mean those kinds of women would want to be friends with you just because you have mystical perspectives. I mean seriously isn't that what a stoner is? YEAH GIRLS ARE ALL OVER SHAGGY N SCOOBY

I bet I'm going to receive plenty of flak but I tried to word this softly to not offend anyone.

I've been disappointed many times with the understanding that someone wearing flowers in their hair doesn't really mean anything if you don't live up to their material expectations." Regular" totally non-spiritually oriented women in other countries are LESS MATERIALISTIC than the Western hippie-looking girls and it's hilarious to me. Seeing younger guys completely clueless about this perspective and seeing them get so neutered ugh..
sorry it's like watching a puppy never go outside.

I expect people to take issue with what I've written in this message but I can say I'm not some repressed Elliot Rodger angry with life cause my lack of riches made me an incel. I don't have a strong attitude about any of this B.S. Why should I care?

[flow]

Navaratna, sorry brother, i couldn't squeeze any meaningful reply from your rant. obviously youre not a women, arent you?

[Navaratna]

Navaratna, sorry brother, i couldn't squeeze any meaningful reply from your rant. obviously youre not a women, arent you?

No, I am not.

Listen dude there are guys like at the head of government in North Korea and Cuba who are complete garbage, they are horrible people. They have hot girls hang out with them just because they have money.

They are not good examples to follow at all, but this simple fact shows you that if you just had the material wealth that chicks wanted...they'd hang out with you despite if you were a killer or communist/crook head of a rogue regime.

What does that tell you about your approach to attracting companionship?

The amount of murders that are committed each year in a lot of latino countries have actually made it so women outnumber the men by a significant percentage. Men kill mostly other adult men.

Women are still willing to hang out with those guys

So what do you get from being told this?
To me it means...the only reason why they have girls hang out with them is the fact that they have the material things that they want.

Even if you're with women who identify as spiritual they're not going to stick around with you if you are a broke homeless ,yet spiritually enlightened social memory complex-aware being

I'm telling you from personal experience how it is and you don't see me making threads about it. In fact I've made multiple posts about the Secret of the Golden Flower [Taoist celibacy] and Brahmacarya along with the legends of the mesoamerican kundalini deity Quetzalcoatl and his oaths of celibacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmacarya

what does it mean to you if a person at the deepest understand of Ra material meant that you'd have to choose a life of monasticism? This is what Tibetan monks practice in a sense.

Not complaining about a lack of girlfriends.

[Glow]

Flow. We’ve really done these slam women posts to death here seeing as it’s a male dominated board the point of view squews to be quite unbalanced in that regard.

I really really hope you won’t start that up again.
Everything you say about women being stuck in red ray can be said about men.
Stuck in red ray? The bulk of men are obsessed with red ray. Youth, beauty, sexual desire based on superficial vs higher Ray expression. I certainly wouldn’t be pointing at women making stuck in red ray remarks. Pot meet kettle.

Thankfully not all men or women are stuck in such things but most are.
That is what the world teaches unfortunately so the sleeping gobble it up till they one day awaken looking for deeper expressions and understanding.

As to female wanderers.

The ones I have met on here and in person very few sought out to raise a family.
I imagine earlier generations were not fortunate enough to have been given that choice but those roughly in my age range most did not resonate with the role.

I never felt this was a gentle enough place for any vulnerable ones I could bring here.
Personally I only ever met one man that made me even consider such things as bringing children here, but he was a wanderer too and what I really craved was reunification/fusion. Oneness with him.

I’m out of your age range 42, were those red ray parameters?

I’m married.
We have a pretty great life, I mean for a planet where most dwell in the seeking of separation.
He’s not at all stuck in red ray, I wouldn’t have handled someone who could be led away by youth or superficiality. I’m not stupid we all grow older and I like to go quite deep with people, all people but certainly my life companion better be here for reasons deeper than red/yellow.

I know wanderer men here, the ones I know relate from higher rays. A few exceptions some stuck in the karmic maelstrom and we can only hope they work through it.

Anyways this wasn’t meant to be rude so much as perhaps to deter a repeat.

we lost quite a few of the female wanderers through post with similar threads that in an unbalanced way heaped this stuff on women.
I sure hope we won’t have a repeat of that as there are only a few of us that haven’t left.

I’m editing because you guys are saying women are after money.

I married my husband when he was an art student, I was in engineering school.
I was totally going to be carrying him financially. I actually put him through his last two years of school.

Turns out we both ended up doing things other than expected.
We make about the same.
We always say though you shouldn’t marry anyone you wouldn’t live in a run down appartment
with and still be glad you were together.

Situations change, looks, finances, everything material can go away.
You only have the one inside the vessel and sometimes they die.
So no this female wanderer didn’t go for a family or money. Just love.

I feel your assumptions about women are quite biased.

[Navaratna]

I make my comments here with bluntness because I've seen plenty of guys not understand it. Maybe a girl will be interested when they're young and unrealistic and interested in an equally unrealistic guy, but for anything long term...

If you don't have enough money to afford a place to live, what are you stuck with in a rich country?

Living with your mom? Hot
Living with your partner with roommates? Sounds terrible. No women want that.

Living in a vehicle? I make a joke sometimes that I've met girls that only date guys that live in their vans. I've seen it before, people so intent on defying paying rent that they go along with that. Those girls I promise won't stick around with those guys long term 99% of the time. Who wants to be 30+ like that? I met a very cool dude like 40 years old seemed like he had his vanlife together. Hanging out with him for too long was like watching a soap opera listening to him complaining about no women and little money. LOL

Options are very limited in a developed country and maybe there's some options like traveling work programs or the handful of communes that haven't completely failed but still want money for you to live in them.

[sillypumpkins]

where does one even start with this?

flow, you might consider taking a step back and asking yourself where these ideas are coming from. your question seems to have a foundation based on gross generalizations and a notion of an intrinsic separation between biological men and women... and that's probably just the tip of the iceberg

but most of a time women don't give a **ck to anything but what is directly connected to procreation and material wealth

yeah, I just don't even know where to start with this one.... i agree with glow that your assumptions about women are biased...

take care

[Agua]

removed

[Agua]

removed

[Navaratna]

In general I would also like to note an important thing:

All of us have made very bad experiences with men as well as with women. So its natural to get in touch with that anger at some time.

If we do not get in touch with it, there is no way we can heal it, if we dont heal it, we suppress it and act it out unconsciously.
i,believe its just very important to deal with it with awareness and a healing approach!

I went through phases of incredible anger and hate towards women, that was a tough phase. But I am glad I did it, my relationship with myself and with others changed a lot as a result.
I went through the same stuff regarding men, that was even harder (since I am one myself), but also extremely beneficial.

Just dont remain stuck in it. Realize where its coming from, fave it, go through it and let go of it.
Your life will improve greatly!

I remember voicing a lot of irritation to a friend one day and he said..think of all the stuff guys do though.

I can think of all the crazy men who went on shooting sprees for example. How many women do that?

I point out how when guys are criticized for doing something stupid, guys don't rush in and defend all men.. because it seems everyone can acknowledge men often do stupid things.
It's doesn't need to be about gender because often it is just the individual being good or bad...how simple minded can people be to act like there are only 2 varieties of humans?

[Black Dragon]

As someone who's life experiences with most women do somewhat mirror the contents of the rants here, I can say I've explored these avenues of thought quite extensively. I even had a fairly recent dream that revealed some of these unhealed biases still within, in which I was talking to my mom after a stressful experience, where I said "No offense, but honestly, I'm attracted to women but I don't like them. They are shallow, judgmental, manipulative, and stupid." I was a bit surprised at myself when I woke up, because consciously and intellectually, I've realized those biases aren't true, and are ignorant and don't take the full picture into account. They are limited and illusory views based partly on surface life experiences and partly on junk energies cluttering human/societal morphic fields, archetypal conflicts that we pick up.

Part of the problem is also the pain body and shadow side, which can still hold on to these feelings to some extent even when we have made a conscious decision to broaden our view and look at things from a different perspective, as I found out from the dream. Still, just being honest and pondering the situation bit, it's easy to see that it's not something one gender or another is guilty of, so much as people in general objectifying and judging one another, from the standpoint of shallow, distorted, and societally conditioned pursuits and priorities. Take a man for example of the sort discussed in the rantings here, a self-serving, shallow, and basically intellectually and morally bankrupt jerkoff with a half decent job and car, or some generally respected position in society. For every female hanger-on that's drawn in by a guy like this there's at least one male.

The females are looking to be with him, the males are looking to be just like him. It's a two way street. People like us, we see the stupidity and the shallowness and the senseless misery these attitudes create, and we often jump to judgements of one group or another based on our own biases. It's the "evil patriarchy", or those "stupid b******" or whatever. No, it's just the more distorted parts of human nature exacerbated by societal conditioning. As wanderers we tend to feel alienated from all this, and a bit butthurt from all the judgment we've received from people who under our discernment(and sometimes harshly reactive counter-judgment), are quite full of s*** and have backwards priorities.

Choosing to continue ranting about their behaviors, especially from a biased view of one gender or group being the distorted ones, is continuing to connect to those morphic fields and make their reality and conflicts our own. I'm guilty of the same sometimes, but I realize it doesn't get me anywhere. Your barking up the wrong tree trying to ever get respect from those type of people, or to get people like that of either gender to be interested in you romantically, and even if you could, why would you? The only reason is despair and alienation. Sometimes it seems there's just so few people out there who "get it" to some degree, that the only way to have human contact is to try to connect with people who are "asleep", "playing the game", etc. We then try to "look for love in all the wrong places" and bring ourselves down into that world only to be disappointed.

I don't have all the answers. The best thing I can say is to love these people who are ignorant from a distance, with detachment, without trying to play on their terms or be part of their systems, conflicts, etc. Realize any of this that you've taken into yourself, and realize you are more than those limiting definitions that keep those people stuck, and that you don't have to be stuck in the same rut.

[Glow]

I make my comments here with bluntness because I've seen plenty of guys not understand it. Maybe a girl will be interested when they're young and unrealistic and interested in an equally unrealistic guy, but for anything long term...

If you don't have enough money to afford a place to live, what are you stuck with in a rich country?

Living with your mom? Hot
Living with your partner with roommates? Sounds terrible. No women want that.

Living in a vehicle? I make a joke sometimes that I've met girls that only date guys that live in their vans. I've seen it before, people so intent on defying paying rent that they go along with that. Those girls I promise won't stick around with those guys long term 99% of the time. Who wants to be 30+ like that? I met a very cool dude like 40 years old seemed like he had his vanlife together. Hanging out with him for too long was like watching a soap opera listening to him complaining about no women and little money. LOL

Options are very limited in a developed country and maybe there's some options like traveling work programs or the handful of communes that haven't completely failed but still want money for you to live in them.

You say young and unrealistic as if it’s fact that they are being unrealistic.

When my husband and I got together we rented a relatives basement. It was cheap but we were together. Little by little you make more, or save more and you get your own place. It’s not unreasonable.

Next we moved onto a farm where I worked for equally cheap rent. Saved a tiny bit more now we own a home but it took years of scraping by and it wasn’t at all unusual.

I know lots of stories of pretty financially set people getting together as young broke people and staying together and building a life little by little. You might be suprised to know that’s how all generations except the last few and including LOTS of the last few did it.

Living with roommates or family was the norm except in a few of the post ww2 generations.

So those 2 or 3 generations were actually the annonomoly and unrealistic.

I have friends in their 30s all renting a house as couples they are happy.
They are saving a bit at a time.
Ideally yeah they’d be settled in a house with 2 cars but this isn’t hollywood.

Living in cars is just a bad plan but two people squeaking by together, or sharing expenses as a group while they get their feet under them is actually a great way to save money and build a foundation.

so it’s not fact at all that people need to be able to be at the stage they don’t need roommates or family help. It’s a weird idea of the last few generations that money comes first. Stop watching the program, it’s put out by the same people lulling the masses to sleep.

No offence meant at all. You seem quite nice and have a focus on deeper things, but there are lots of people worldwide and including North America proving money need not come first.

I also I know I didn’t explain this my best. I have to run but wanted to reply so you knew I wasn’t ignoring you, or thinking you were fully wrong.

Yes we have to be willing to work but no you don’t have to be set and ready to do it all yourself to find love and someone to love you.

Working together from near nothing to build a life also shows they aren’t with you for your money. That’s great because as this pandemic is showing us money can be lost.

[Navaratna]

I can't help but think that things were a bit different back then when it comes to the cost of living. People all day every day complain about ever since 2008, the cost of living became merciless, and wages have only stagnated. Saving money is more and more difficult. The national minimum wage is pathetic. maybe 30 years ago it was reasonable..

People young and old encounter the same problem but so many people in their 20s ask all the time WHO or HOW the Hell....CAN people  AFFORD to live on their own in a major modern city in an English speaking country?

That's not even thinking about saving.

I do understand what you mean that working together towards something is a better approach though.

I have much more to say about the idiocy of any large group of straight men instead of singling out any other group.

Like hey, men are so great? Let's go to another country like Brazil or Honduras and find a group of guys, let's just find a group of a dozen central american guys posted up in a poor neighborhood and greet them with open arms about the message of L/L and pray we we don't just get curbstomped because of their senselessly fierce attitude.

I tell guys younger that there are never going to be men thinking about what is best for them in groups like the military. "You'll just get used" for the most part. If being bossed around and used as an expendable pawn, go ahead and think packs of aggressive men are ever going to care about your interests and well being compared to prioritizing their own above all.

Or like imagine being a youngster hanging out with a group of military or street dudes and then women come in to the picture. The weaker guys will just get bulldozed over who gets to have the company of the women. They're mine BACK OFF! *SNARL* and just picture some gladiator arena standoff unfolding and quickly ending.

The women in a lot of these places won't do anything to end this mindless cycle, and it's not like I expect them to. They get pregnant and their sons wind up like the fathers who often time have these attitudes. I have never once witnessed lots of women full on boycotting the company of a guy like that. They want the biggest wolf so they feel like they are safe from harm a lot of the time. Maybe it would lead to world peace if all the hyperaggressive bulls were shown that behaving this way would lead to a life of involuntary celibacy but that's not how I've ever once heard a society of women acting towards these kinds of men. There's no reason to get offended over me pointing this out in the same way that groups of men aren't going to feel offended and feel it is there duty to stand up for their gender.. because guys don't consider the actions of other men as a part of some brotherhood of all other men. No. They often wage war against each other and divide and conquer..we all know it there's nothing fluffy about this selfish behavior.

I don't dwell on it. Either gender male or female there are bad people it doesn't matter what they look like. In my opinion women are often times more drawn to spirituality than males because their mental evolution more revolves around looking in to the subtle underpinnings of communication than males. The female brain actually detects more nuances of sound than the male brain. It's anatomy.

Rich countries are different because the people have been tamed by financial structuring over a long time and this sort of behavior is never going to make the average person super successful.

[flow]

i own an apology to every woman whom my post have made uncomfortable. i didn't want to sound as if i slam most women as mercantile beings and praise most men as spiritual creatures. merely i wanted to hear some stories about your feminine way out of slumber, how did it look from your eyes as a female wanderer? think female wanderer TED-talk. i've heard such stories from men, but i've never heard any from women.

i also shared my issue that most women i have known closely didn't express desire to seek truth or look beyond security of material benefits. i assume i did frame it too harsh though and was sloppy enough to overstretch it to all women. i apologize for that too. still, i can't deny my own experience, experiences of my friends and observations. please note i do not take either gloat or hate towards women in that.
as an example, i have lesbian friend who agreed with me as she got tired of plenty of women in her working environment who hold wealthy lifestyle, succesful marriage and family as pinnacle of their dreams with no spiritual aspirations whatsoever.

that is not to say such women don't exist or women are somehow spiritually inferior. as most of our population is in slumber, it is expected that both men and women alike show little interest in spiritual development and polarizing. the point of my question is how do those women who became awakened see things, what are their goals, how do they go through life, what's their take on mating and gender relationship in our troubled society nowadays, what do they practice or what approach for spiritual development do they take, etc. Ra said that the most common of difficulties for wanderers are alienation and isolation - as a female wanderer how do you deal with these? do you feel it strongly in your life?
since i haven't met such a women hence my curiosity.

[Louisabell]

Thankyou flow on your most recent post for your clarifications.

I just wanted to say that there is nothing wrong or "lowly" for a person to pursue their own self interests with honesty. Just like we don't begrudge men for their preferences and desires, we shouldn't begrudge women for theirs. The continuation of the species is kind of important.

If you are more disappointed at the widespread malaise of materialism, then I'm right there with you. I think it's crazy the amount of time and resources humanity spends on status artefacts, while scientific research into alternative energy or disease is not being done because of a lack of funding. But it is what it is. When you fight reality you lose everytime.

I think it's a pretty common thing for women in their early 20's to come across/be offered a relationship based on status, but it's likely that a wanderess will see it for the gilded cage that it is. Who would stay in a relationship where their true self remained invisible for riches? And yes, I see it as a deadend/trap for both sexes, so maybe that's where your fears are coming from? No-one wants to be used for either sexuality, resources, or well anything. Well I say to that, judge principles, love people.

Now, I'm not saying I am a wanderer, but let's just entertain the idea a little bit, afterall I do fit the M.O. with lurking on the bring 4th forums, and quoting from the LOO like I've read it too many times (I have).

Now, I realise everyone has a feminine side and females are no exception. So a wanderess' link to the subconscious tends to be pretty strong, opening the awareness to many energies, to the point that non-verbal language is the dominant form of communication. The cognitive dissonance constantly observed in others, when mirrored within, can jangle the senses to the point of exhaustion and disarray. This combined with general empathy for the suffering of others, means a wanderess will tend to introversion, or have some strong introverted periods. This adds to isolation.

The wanderess absorbs much at deep levels, so she will have a great reservoir of energies to draw upon which contributes to her personality. This will add to her isolation again as people will find her inconsistent (one personality one day, another personality the next) and close to impossible to understand. This greatly unnerves people, even though a wanderess works so hard to try to put people at ease in her presence.

Her rapid growth, constantly propelled by a restless true-self which is desperate to emerge, will baffle those close to her. They will scratch their heads and say "you've changed a lot" often to her. She will turn around just as baffled and think "how are you still the same after all these years?"

There is one saving grace of course. In the desert, a wanderess will spot a mirage, a great relief. In a crowd, she will spot the one. She can see the bright light emanating behind the eyes that is typical of a wanderer. You see, I think it's the female wanderer that has the gift to find male wanderers in life. The fusion nature of coupling which has been mentioned already is no joke. She will draw out all the good in you that you never imagined you had, and all the bad you can't stand to see. Much will be mirrored, much will be dredged up as you both seek to balance the other. And you will know that unconditional love is real.

[Diana]

@ Louisabell: your post above is beautiful. I feel as though I have just read a beautiful poem.  

[Hilarion]

I think it's a pretty common thing for women in their early 20's to come across/be offered a relationship based on status, but it's likely that a wanderess will see it for the gilded cage that it is. Who would stay in a relationship where their true self remained invisible for riches?

I watched a video recently about how well defined the male initiation myth of the hero's journey is so well established in our cultures, but the female inititaion story is not so well founded and it was described as a fall from riches to rags, where the prized status and riches of being a princess are stripped away and she decends into a life of poverty and struggle in which true meaning and love is appreciated and understood. A kind of reverse cinderella.

[sillypumpkins]

@hilarion

i never viewed the heros journey as a "male initiation myth" but it makes sense when you put it that way, also when you look at how male-dominated society is/has been.....

[Navaratna]

I remember reading how what might be a problem with so many adult men being trapped in an emotionally immature state might have something to do with the fact that in modern times we don't have any rite of passage.

A lot of cultures/tribes have throughout history but for the average person in a modern society there is no such thing. A diploma or being hazed in some fraternity/street crew doesn't mean anything as a part of understanding your innermost being.

[sillypumpkins]

I think 'rites of passage' are certainly still present in today's society, they're just different from how they used to be. getting your first car, drinking alcohol for the first time, losing your virginity, i feel all these things are viewed as 'rites of passage' to a certain degree in society.

while they might not be as 'intense' as being sent into a dark cave for a month long meditation, theyre still rites of passage.... just... yknow, different. the world is always changing

[Glow]

I think it's a pretty common thing for women in their early 20's to come across/be offered a relationship based on status, but it's likely that a wanderess will see it for the gilded cage that it is. Who would stay in a relationship where their true self remained invisible for riches?

I watched a video recently about how well defined the male initiation myth of the hero's journey is so well established in our cultures, but the female inititaion story is not so well founded and it was described as a fall from riches to rags, where the prized status and riches of being a princess are stripped away and she decends into a life of poverty and struggle in which true meaning and love is appreciated and understood. A kind of reverse cinderella.

The hero’s journey is neither male or female.

“ Joseph Campbell (1949) proposed that within every great story ever told, from ancient myth to modern day movies, one can find the same narrative inside every tale. He called it The Hero’s Journey. If we consider the chronological order of the Major Arcana or Trump cards to be a story (often referred to as The Fool’s Journey), a similar narrative is found there as well.
Whether Fool or Hero, the journey involves archetypes and stages an individual walks through on the road to find wholeness, happiness and purpose. Below are my thoughts on how they compare:....”

The hero’s journey is a remake if the fools journey from tarot.
To say the female human needs a seperate journey based on “not being a rich princess” is HUGELY offensive. I’m not going to take offence but just think that through again slowly.

Do you really think half the human population just start out like catered to rich princesses? We all struggle, we all have a journey of learning, over coming, rising above our personal issues, being transformed by the adventure/struggle of life.

There is no female version.

It’s life for any person if they grow through their struggles.

I’m starting to think men who do not know many women really get their ideas about women through hollywood.
Just a note Hollywood doesn’t tell many women’s storeys. Hollywoods narrative for the most part is about men with women as minor characters. Tryst me. We have a damn hero’s/fools journey too.

We are each growing, struggling, deep and veried, amazing beings too.

[Navaratna]

I think 'rites of passage' are certainly still present in today's society, they're just different from how they used to be. getting your first car, drinking alcohol for the first time, losing your virginity, i feel all these things are viewed as 'rites of passage' to a certain degree in society.

while they might not be as 'intense' as being sent into a dark cave for a month long meditation, theyre still rites of passage.... just... yknow, different. the world is always changing

I think they exist but none of them seem to inform a person about the innermost mechanisms of their minds.
Separation of church and state are good things but it has made it that spiritual understanding of your intellect is something that has been put in to exile. People cringe at the concept and it's inappropriate to discuss these ideas at the workplace for the most part. "Your spiritual opinions/religion are ones you keep to yourself we don't want to have to refer you to HR"

Getting drunk damages your mind, operating a vehicle is great but doesn't transform your morals. I'm not lecturing people but we none of it informs you how to treat people with "love." At all.

I think it really boils down to you becoming a person who has a concise understanding of the felt experience of truth doesn't economically bring benefit to your city council, or people trying to sell you products or use you as a tool to make money or as a part of some larger agenda groups of men would like to bend people toward following instructions. "A soldier is trained to follow orders."

What incentive does anyone have to tell you about the proper way to experience sahaj samadhi as a being of peace satisfied with a simple non-materialistic life. Who gets money out of that? No one gets their agenda satisfied as a result of an individual finding inner peace and it would make a lot of people tear their hair out in frustration if suddenly masses of young people thought this way. That's the 1960s in a nutshell.

[Glow]

Navaratna-I was 12 years old 30 years ago so clearly was not moving out with my husband.
2008 I was still making slave wages living on the farm and starting my own business on the side. It sucked a55 both my husband and I had 3 jobs each, living accommodations I could write a book about they were not great lol but by 2013 we got our own little dumpy house that was structurally fine and started fixing it up. I’m not talking distance past here.

Also I do not believe it’s anyone’s right to be able to afford to live in the most sought after(supply/demand)(big cities) areas. That’s not where you start if you want to afford a place. That to me is a total cop out.

Even now I own a home but wouldn’t be able to afford rent in Toronto the closest big city to me.
No way to save money doing that except for the rich.

So guess what I wanted to own so after a decade plus of living in tiny places to save money we moved to a dumpster fire of a town and commuted. It’s what all generations have had to do that didn’t live with family, move to the cheaper outskirts. Then those crappy towns build up and property values go up and the next generation has to do the same if they don’t live with family.

Maybe in Europe one can afford to live in big cities from the get go without roommates... I wouldn’t know but in most of North America that has not been a possible for a long time.

Not trying to be argumentative but these are mental road blocks. If you can’t have a life mate or date till you move out, and you can’t move out unless it’s an impossibly expensive area then you have painted yourself into a corner.

My grandfather is dead but he was 100 a few years ago. When he was 20-ish he married and lived in a rented garage with his wife and daughter after the war. It’s not suddenly hard. Life is hard, it’s always been hard. If you put barriers of wealth up mentally before you feel you can look for a mate you are making it WAY worse.

Just don’t opt for shallow ass women.
Do you work? If so and you are trying to build a life I garuntee there is an equally struggling woman out there who would love a partner to struggle with.

I say this as a sort of older sister. Any woman who would write a man off because he isn’t financially set isn’t a woman worth having.

No offence we are brothers and sisters here.
It’s just not that impossible.

Finding the right one. Hard!
Being in a situation where you can date, not that hard.

Last year I had a conversation with a homeless man about UBI he whined that even $1400 a month tax free wouldn’t be enough to afford a place. I explained that most people can’t afford to live on their own, get roommates like most do to share expences.

It was a no go for him, he told me he already makes that pan handling but lives on the street. You could definitely rent a room in my town for $600-$700. That’s apparently not the way he wants to live. That was the last $20 I gave him.

My mom had renters in rooms most of my life, friends of mine bought tiny 2 bedroom homes but need to rent rooms out to afford it. Others wanted to rent big country homes so have several rooms rented out so they can afford it. There is no shame in shared expenses.

[Louisabell]

The hero’s journey is a remake if the fools journey from tarot.
To say the female human needs a seperate journey based on “not being a rich princess” is HUGELY offensive. I’m not going to take offence but just think that through again slowly.

Do you really think half the human population just start out like catered to rich princesses? We all struggle, we all have a journey of learning, over coming, rising above our personal issues, being transformed by the adventure/struggle of life.

There is no female version.

It’s life for any person if they growth through their struggles.

That's not how I took it at all. The princess archetype is just that - an archetype. It is a reflection on how female sexual market value is usually highest when she is young, and is inherent in who she, not what she does. Females then are given many temptations which play on her vanity. At an early age she must gain wisdom quickly in order to make good longterm choices for herself and her future family. It's like the overall story arch of every Jane Austen novel.

Men on the other hand will have their highest sexual market value at a later age once they've proven themselves in ambition and reputation. This isn't something I *personally* agree with, but I mean this trope exists for some reason.

Yes, these roles are traditional, archaic, superficial even, but we're just playing around with ideas here. No one is saying that anyone needs to adhere to any generalisations. I don't think anyone is out to dehumanise anyone else.

I think we shut down discussion and future potential for growth when we assume the worse, like men must think women have no struggles at all.

[Navaratna]

Glow the thing is I do just fine on my own.
I'm just describing the attitude of most young men from what I have witnessed in cities and what they want, and how a lot of their actions and attitudes are shaped by doing what is necessary to satisfy the younger women..the ones that live in the cities that the guys are usually interested in.

Yes I realize 30 years ago isn't what your working age was but I meant that in referring to what the minimum wage was. Working full time meant you at least could have a place to live even if you'd have to share it. Now in places like Seattle a person can work full time and be homeless.

None of these issues really concern me I am just expressing the opinion that a girl in a modern city isn't going to be friends with a guy that doesn't have money MOST of the time. Finding a girl in a city and trying to get her to go with you to hicktown rural Missouri to save money cuz you are a broke adult male unable to afford a decent life for the most part..is practically never eveer going to happen in wealthy cities.

In my opinion we have a backwards attitude that punishing people for committing directly harmful acts results in someone being sent to a facility where they will be given a place to live and a potentially lifetime supply of food for free. The for-profit penitentiary.

While ordinary homeless people who did nothing wrong except run out of money will get billions of dollars in aid directed to organizations centered around feeding and clothing/helping the homeless but...they will never be given a place to live for free LOL. NO! WE CAN'T DO THAT!! The guy 2 blocks away needs to pay 850$ to share a small 1 bedroom with another person! UNFAIR. We only give places for people to live for free [or more like at taxpayer cost] if they committed a murder or smoked too much weed.

The times in the U.S. people tried to give the poor a place to live for FREE instead of as a PUNISHMENT, they were called Public Housing Projects "tha projects" and quickly thugs turned them in to complete slums with a very openly and dangerously aggressive attitude towards a civil life and order. Section 8 discount housing still has this problem.

This is why money divides and conquers people, it's built this way for a reason. The rich want the "uneducated" or "poor" people kept away from them and say what you want about "they're people how could you say that about poor people" but do you feel safer walking through a rich neighborhood or some third world slum?

None of this really concerns me but it is all so backwards it is such complete nonsense how people will try to defend what our society does with poor people. Abandons them. Even if they got jobs they wouldn't save.

I do just fine where I am. I am not complaining about the way anything is for me.

[sillypumpkins]

@navaratna

I'm just describing the attitude of most young men from what I have witnessed

"most of the population" of anything that anyone has witnessed is an absolutely tiny, minuscule portion of anything. so what's the point in speaking so generally? there's a whole world of people out there that you haven't met. i know in your world, the men (and women) might be that way, but there is a whole world out there of people you do not know.... think about that!

that a girl in a modern city isn't going to be friends with a guy that doesn't have money MOST of the time

again, based on your experiences. i was dirt poor when i met my partner in a "modern city".... I know you say "most of the time", but again, what is the point in speaking so generally about such a broad subject (people)? there are so many people out there. speaking of all people based on your experiences with some people really doesn't make sense to me...

[Navaratna]

I'm not speaking of what is directly relevant to me, this thread is about the original post and -why- people think the way they do. I'm not upset over how dumb huge masses of people are.

I do definitely think it'd be great if everyone understood Sahaj Samadhi and the Law of One but that's not how it is. There are plenty of people who -do- understand this, and they hold meetings, which is why in the line of my first post "most of these groups are full of women and maybe you're speaking to ones that don't share similar perspectives to you" because I remember how a friend told me I was looking in the wrong places and IT IS VERY TRUE that people often do look in places that aren't really centered around consciousness...bars...nightclubs...looking for romance when these places are full of people focused on their appearances and alcohol. LOL. I don't know maybe go to a place with like minded people? Then he'd get along with people with similar attitudes? *lightbulb* Damn..

None of this matters to me I am describing how forgettable masses of people look at each other..obsessed with trying to always measure each other based off of what inanimate objects they own and spend time around. That is status in most peoples eyes oh boy HOOOHOO

I'll say it again, I have no complaints about the way things are for me.

[Glow]

The hero’s journey is a remake if the fools journey from tarot.
To say the female human needs a seperate journey based on “not being a rich princess” is HUGELY offensive. I’m not going to take offence but just think that through again slowly.

Do you really think half the human population just start out like catered to rich princesses? We all struggle, we all have a journey of learning, over coming, rising above our personal issues, being transformed by the adventure/struggle of life.

There is no female version.

It’s life for any person if they growth through their struggles.

That's not how I took it at all. The princess archetype is just that - an archetype. It is a reflection on how female sexual market value is usually highest when she is young, and is inherent in who she, not what she does. Females then are given many temptations which play on her vanity. At an early age she must gain wisdom quickly in order to make good longterm choices for herself and her future family. It's like the overall story arch of every Jane Austen novel.

Men on the other hand will have their highest sexual market value at a later age once they've proven themselves in ambition and reputation. This isn't something I *personally* agree with, but I mean this trope exists for some reason.

Yes, these roles are traditional, archaic, superficial even, but we're just playing around with ideas here. No one is saying that anyone needs to adhere to any generalisations. I don't think anyone is out to dehumanise anyone else.

I think we shut down discussion and future potential for growth when we assume the worse, like men must think women have no struggles at all.

You are reducing what I am saying.
Sure there could be a princess archetype but to claim the hero’s journey is male is rediculous. Even the originator himself said “it is found in every great storey ever told. Not every great male storey, every great storey.

It’s a storey of transformation. All transformation from the “fool” to the now wiser and deeper developed non fool.

That can of course include any transformation one goes on but to say the female version is the “princess” version reduces half the population to 1 way of transforming while giving all the possible options for men.

That’s Hollywood.

In real life there are just as many transformation models for women as men and they fall under the hero’s journey.

As to saying womens has to do with loss of wealth or value that is a societal construct. The perceived loss of value for women, and gaining of value for men YIKES do you see where that idea came from?

It’s not reality.
That’s men deciding their red ray determines women’s value and women believing what they are told.

A fool may believe that at the beginning and after her or his hero’s journey end up realizing its bull and now through their experiences see one is wiser and stronger with more depth of understanding after living their life, and alas no value could be lost only gained.

Sure the princess storey can be part of a hero’s journey but it certainly is not the 1 option for women in their hero’s journey. We are quite varied, and full of potential for transformation.

[Navaratna]

I do notice how even in a lot of these old divination systems about kundalini they don't mention human female practices as much as male ones. Kundalini is a feminine force, but..

Mexican/Taoist/Buddhist/Greek monks didn't keep women in their domains for the most part, and a lot of the legends are about a first emperor like Quetzalcoatl or Fu Xi.

I can think of Sumerian Inanna and Mehen as females that have highly important roles but I've never heard of a sisterhood of female monks except possibly the Greek Circe and her innumerable nymphs. Very interesting story there. Many herbs are named after her as Circea and she practiced hydromancy on the Greek islands. She's a tremendously legendary witch.

There's also related Heka, ancient Egyptian magic and I have read how people are so dumbfounded that they can't imagine what the name had origins in and I think...wtf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate also spelled Hekate. Gee I wonder what connection there possibly could be between the two.

[Louisabell]

You are reducing what I am saying.

And you're reading into what I'm saying. Who said that women don't go on hero journeys? I'm talking about just a small aspect of life. No, the totality of a woman's life is not based on superficial courtships in her youth. Does it even need to be said?

Sure there could be a princess archetype but to claim the hero’s journey is male is rediculous. Even the originator himself said “it is found in every great storey ever told. Not every great male storey, every great storey.

He said the hero journey decribed male initiation into manhood. So what? Where did he say women can't go on hero journeys? Like every story of transformation can be made to fit into the hero's journey. So are women just not allowed to transform ever, except when told by men?

Who honestly thinks that!? You must think we're all drooling 2-dimensional idiots with bigotry for brains.

And you know what, who a woman chooses to have a child with is EXTREMELY important, to her happiness, the child's happiness and even society as a whole. The fall from vanity/pride to humbleness/modesty is very important in a general sense for women AND men.

As to saying womens has to do with loss of wealth or value that is a societal construct. The perceived loss of value for women, and gaining of value for men YIKES do you see where that idea came from?

It’s not reality.
That’s men deciding their red ray determines women’s value and women believing what they are told.

Glow, it's in the definition, sexual MARKET value. Yes of course it's a social construct. And yes, of course men decide what gives women sexual market value, just like women decide what gives men their sexual market value.

It's like women get their ideas about men from Hollywood, thinking they should all work till they drop dead while playing the sauve bond type. "Happy wife, happy life" afterall. See how this game is played. But NO-ONE is saying YOU or ANYONE needs to play this stupid game.

Sure the princess storey can be part of a hero’s journey but it certainly is not the 1 option for women in their hero’s journey. We are quite varied, and full of potential for transformation.

Actually, the female initiation story spoken about was realising that the 'princess' role is a temptation and full of lies to keep women AWAY from their potential and wisdom, which is in opposition to the Cinderella story (where a man saves the day) which is way more popular in popular media.

But at the end of the day, who cares, these are all just ideas. People are allowed to think whatever the ell they want.