Comparing Ra and the Cassiopaeans

[Ymarsakar]

Pranking

[J.W.]

To me, that transcript sounded like a lower ranking Orion crusader taking over the "radio transmitter" because mothership got blown up.

Also, the "energy" from their communication just gives off a very chaotic vibe..

On the other hand, to whoever this message resonate with,

The infinite creator is realizing negative polarity is not "helping" and prolonging the overall growth of "everything." This is due to many "souls/energy" returning "home" and "reporting" to the infinite creator that we are having enough of this "bs."

If you feel sick and tired of the negative polarity making things complicated and hurting the overall process, then you are understanding the infinite creator's "thoughts" as you are part of "one."

"We" are all taking a closer look at this spiritual process, and we are revaluating the necessity of negative polarity...

Yes, you need to have duality to have contrast, but it is swung a little too hard on the chaos side at this time. (necessary for the sake of re-balancing.)

The infinite creator might have taken a "long time" to realize this... But like others have mentioned, "enough" data must be collected before evolving.

Rejoice, as we are all taking a new path towards spiritual growth/experiences. One with clarity, because we can recognize almost all of the "tactics" from negative polarity on this sphere.

Soon, the pendulum will swing back and achieve equilibrium.

with l/l

[LeafieGreens]

To me, that transcript sounded like a lower ranking Orion crusader taking over the "radio transmitter" because mothership got blown up.

Also, the "energy" from their communication just gives off a very chaotic vibe..

On the other hand, to whoever this message resonate with,

The infinite creator is realizing negative polarity is not "helping" and prolonging the overall growth of "everything." This is due to many "souls/energy" returning "home" and "reporting" to the infinite creator that we are having enough of this "bs."

If you feel sick and tired of the negative polarity making things complicated and hurting the overall process, then you are understanding the infinite creator's "thoughts" as you are part of "one."

"We" are all taking a closer look at this spiritual process, and we are revaluating the necessity of negative polarity...

Yes, you need to have duality to have contrast, but it is swung a little too hard on the chaos side at this time. (necessary for the sake of re-balancing.)

The infinite creator might have taken a "long time" to realize this... But like others have mentioned, "enough" data must be collected before evolving.

Rejoice, as we are all taking a new path towards spiritual growth/experiences. One with clarity, because we can recognize almost all of the "tactics" from negative polarity on this sphere.

Soon, the pendulum will swing back and achieve equilibrium.

with l/l

JW, I feel this as well. The little earth experiment seems to be having quite large ramifications for the greater Universe.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

To me, that transcript sounded like a lower ranking Orion crusader taking over the "radio transmitter" because mothership got blown up.

Also, the "energy" from their communication just gives off a very chaotic vibe..

Alternatively, perhaps it's something less dramatic presented in a more dramatic way. Like a mean-spirited prankster-being of sorts blowing its own cover -- yet afterwards, through a magician's sleigh of hand, it's still believed in just the same by the Cassiopaea community (which doesn't make much of the Orion mentions in that session).

JW, I feel this as well. The little earth experiment seems to be having quite large ramifications for the greater Universe.

Personally, I think it's the opposite. The human mind and heart make what's close to Earth large and what's further away small, but the subjective "human Universe" may change greatly as the situation for humanity changes. And that may feel like the whole world for those involved in that process of change.

[LeafieGreens]

JW, I feel this as well. The little earth experiment seems to be having quite large ramifications for the greater Universe.

Personally, I think it's the opposite. The human mind and heart make what's close to Earth large and what's further away small, but the subjective "human Universe" may change greatly as the situation for humanity changes. And that may feel like the whole world for those involved in that process of change.

I have read that because so many other races were directly involved with the creation of humanity, that they are karmically tied to the advancement of earth. Thus when earth rises, every star civilization that has had some kind of influence on Earth will also adjust accordingly to the new energy.

That is why all eyes are on the earth on many planes. Because the little experiment went sideways and we are stuck. It's time to get un-stuck.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

JW, I feel this as well. The little earth experiment seems to be having quite large ramifications for the greater Universe.

Personally, I think it's the opposite. The human mind and heart make what's close to Earth large and what's further away small, but the subjective "human Universe" may change greatly as the situation for humanity changes. And that may feel like the whole world for those involved in that process of change.

I have read that because so many other races were directly involved with the creation of humanity, that they are karmically tied to the advancement of earth. Thus when earth rises, every star civilization that has had some kind of influence on Earth will also adjust accordingly to the new energy.

That is why all eyes are on the earth on many planes. Because the little experiment went sideways and we are stuck. It's time to get un-stuck.

That could be, though there's various other options that I personally think more likely. I usually don't believe in stories that present other parties bringing humanity to where it now is as human-like tribes and peoples (common in New Age messages). I think human-level ideas of suspiciously human-like entities at best oversimplify like children's stories, and that genuinely higher beings would not really fit into frameworks like human social dynamics and what intuitively makes sense to human brains geared for those.

The Cassiopaean material made a small, early departure from the Ra material in that regard, pointing out the problems with anthropocentric thinking. Not that the Ra material had a big problem of that kind, just a little -- in my mind -- filler in the form of human-like councils and such at higher levels, which I think are placeholder ideas that reduce reality to fit human intuition, instead of working to do the opposite. Not that the Cassiopaean teaching replaces such placeholders with something particularly good, it just makes different ones instead.

I don't think there is karma in the way it's most often described, though the idea of it being like inertia tied to investing one's being in something makes sense to me. But then, if other worlds have been involved in bringing Earth to its current situation, only those without the maturity needed for "karmic and simple understandings" in general would be stuck with karma issues as a result of being involved with Earth.

Difficult to say how many eyes there really are on Earth and what the beings attached to the eyes do. But I think the stuckness is mostly on Earth, and that it's in large part like a sluggishness, where most intelligent life in the cosmos is uninterested in life on Earth because "down here", it's all below the threshold for what they consider intelligent life. Some good and interested specialists may make useful contact with worlds like this, and some bad imitators, and a lot of unrelated noise may also be made.

[Ymarsakar]

"and that genuinely higher beings would not really fit into frameworks like human social dynamics and what intuitively makes sense to human brains geared for those."

Humanity would not realize they were talking to ETs online in their social media.

"where most intelligent life in the cosmos is uninterested in life on Earth because "down here", it's all below the threshold for what they consider intelligent life. Some good and interested specialists may make useful contact with worlds like this, and some bad imitators, and a lot of unrelated noise may also be made."

Humanity has no idea what the Earth is, let alone what the moon and space are, or even what ETs or gods are.

No idea whatsoever.

That is by design and intent. Sorta like a movie not spoiling itself, but does provide foreshadowing in novels.

Amongst the individual sub densities, each individual shard can be diametrically different from the youniverse of another sub density shard server.

For much of humanity, yes, "intelligent life in the cosmos" are uninterested. But that's because humanity is asleep and it is uninteresting watching an ant colony that is asleep.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

For much of humanity, yes, "intelligent life in the cosmos" are uninterested. But that's because humanity is asleep and it is uninteresting watching an ant colony that is asleep.

I think it goes beyond that. Actually, I had an "ant colony idea" in mind, but a bit differently.

Humans going on to build technological things throughout this solar system would be, to some types of observers, a bit like ants building a big ant heap in a forest, to human observers. No matter how active the ants are, they are not included for participation alongside human beings in political debates about international government.

Likewise, human beings are, in mind, even when awake and active, not at all involved in the kind of stuff various other types of observers may be interested in. Much like to humans, politics is more important than what some ants do in a forest, to some other beings, no-label-for-unknown is more important than everything humans do.

But I mentioned "specialists" who may be interested. That's analogous to the fewer humans who are really into what ants do and go look, and perhaps more than look.

[J.W.]

Allow me to clarify,

What I said has nothing to do with the perspective of "macrocosm" and "microcosm" between Humans existence and E.T. etc. etc.

I am simply saying that since we are all "basically" the infinite creator, and because majority of us are getting REALLY tired of "suffering" in general. Then most "likely," the infinite creator is feeling the same way.

How many lifetime/experiences of pure pain/suffering do you think you need before you say "enough."

The IC (Infinite Creator) essentially "grows" from the collective experiences of ALL things. Within ALL of these experiences, they all include the counter-productiveness, repressiveness, and destructive consequences from/by negative polarity.

Negative polarity exist because it provides necessary "resistance" for growth.
But for those that perished in the gas chamber, and under the blinding explosion of nuclear warheads.
They all "report" back the Infinite Creator at some point...

and it goes a something like this....

"umm, hey big man, ya, yes you, the almighty that created this whole s*** show. Sorry to bother ya, but this virtual reality thing you made is ab-solutely gorgeous and all, you know...we love! love! loveeee the 3rd, 4th, 5th, octave progression of "souls" and kumbaya unification at 6th,7th,8th... Absolute genius mate! Never seen anything like it! I could not have thought of it myself! Ab-so-lute-ly brilliant.

but... ummm..hmm... how do I put this.... we KINDA have a slight problem here you see.....the people... well...essentially, you.. yes... part-of-you...well.. me as you..... oh for god sake! you get what I mean.. Well, a whole butt load of us are getting royally screwed here... and we are trying our best here you know?... But let me tell you, getting gassed, and getting blown up by a nuke aren't the best kind of experience, you feel me??? Kind of set us all back a bit...

Well, I hope you get me, but we are getting wee bit tired of this... Not sure how many more blown up planets and mind blowing conflicts between positive/negative you still need... we get it.. we get it... you're a BIG dude... so it properly takes you a wee bit longer to feel the 'ouch'... But hey..
look here big man... from the little guy to the big guy..... real talk... This.. is.. not working out.... You see... The negative "folks"... you know? the skull and crossbones "other-selves"... they got a little too excited with their "role" in this duality thing.... and next thing you know... we have kids... young kids... boys and girls... laying in their own puddle of blood and piss in school.... Anyways....

Good talk, looking forward to meeting you when we get home, and brings all of these "experiences" to ya :] god bless, love, light and all that."

p.s. love you, so please be kind.

I hope you catch my drift....
What I wrote is a satire, and my jab at being comedic.

But the not so funny part is that the Infinite Creator is going to get the message as we make our way "home." Despite that both paths are "correct" and "serves" the infinite creator.... Enough... is Enough.

[Ymarsakar]

"But the not so funny part is that the Infinite Creator is going to get the message as we make our way "home.""

Because the negative densities have gone as far as they can, but can only return to Infinite Creator via the polarity flip method, there are pieces of Creation that is basically "lost" still and "stuck" in a loop, because they refuse to come home.

They want to exercise their "Distortion of Free will".

Eventually, the Infinite Creator will send or authorize Fail Safes, the administrator portion governing the soul growth of ALL THINGs. These Fail Safes are like secret agents sent from high density to low density, sorta like wanderers, in order to "inspect" what is going on here and whether certain actions need to be done to make parts of creation fold back into itself so we can progress to something more productive.

I call these Fail safe agents, because the Infinite Creator is not so infinitely stupid that it would go to sleep and "allow" part of it self to be run in a continual BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH and get stuck like that forever, without a way to reset/reboot/reformat things.

"Well, a whole butt load of us are getting royally screwed here... and we are trying our best here you know?... But let me tell you, getting gassed, and getting blown up by a nuke aren't the best kind of experience, you feel me??? Kind of set us all back a bit..."

Infinite Creator: Don't worry, there is always a Failsafe. When the Administrator authorizes it, even Free will can be suspended.

This would be sorta like God's health inspector checking up on the health of the universe and whether the Administrator is doing their job or not. This report is fed directly back to Source energy, bypassing identity even high density high identity. That is because it is always possible that some viral freak code has corrupted even the Administration of a universe. If that happens, that entire universe is going to have to be....

Fortunately, this universe is not that state and is very salvageable ; )

[J.W.]

"But the not so funny part is that the Infinite Creator is going to get the message as we make our way "home.""

Because the negative densities have gone as far as they can, but can only return to Infinite Creator via the polarity flip method, there are pieces of Creation that is basically "lost" still and "stuck" in a loop, because they refuse to come home.

They want to exercise their "Distortion of Free will".

Eventually, the Infinite Creator will send or authorize Fail Safes, the administrator portion governing the soul growth of ALL THINGs. These Fail Safes are like secret agents sent from high density to low density, sorta like wanderers, in order to "inspect" what is going on here and whether certain actions need to be done to make parts of creation fold back into itself so we can progress to something more productive.

I call these Fail safe agents, because the Infinite Creator is not so infinitely stupid that it would go to sleep and "allow" part of it self to be run in a continual BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH and get stuck like that forever, without a way to reset/reboot/reformat things.

"Well, a whole butt load of us are getting royally screwed here... and we are trying our best here you know?... But let me tell you, getting gassed, and getting blown up by a nuke aren't the best kind of experience, you feel me??? Kind of set us all back a bit..."

Infinite Creator: Don't worry, there is always a Failsafe. When the Administrator authorizes it, even Free will can be suspended.

This would be sorta like God's health inspector checking up on the health of the universe and whether the Administrator is doing their job or not. This report is fed directly back to Source energy, bypassing identity even high density high identity. That is because it is always possible that some viral freak code has corrupted even the Administration of a universe. If that happens, that entire universe is going to have to be....

Fortunately, this universe is not that state and is very salvageable ; )

You got it ;]

[Patrick]

That is the role of the guardians from the next octave it seems.

[Ymarsakar]

No, the guardians are those people who got harvested here but who refused to graduate and still want to help their class mates stop endlessly repeating 3rd grade.

It is related to the work of the Logos or sub Logos, and is part of the team effort with the iamraw collective under the Counsel of Saturn's direction.

Dark Alliance: We have the right to know, and humans have the right not to know that we are using them as batteries and farm animals. You can't do anything to us, because it would violate our free will.

Fail Safe: Oh yea? Try try and see how far the Distortion gets you.

We/Me don't care what you bugged code wants or do not want. You are required to come home. Free will was a temporary state given to allow this. It does not exist, understand? There is only One Will and that is the Divine Will. Attempt all you wish to rebel against it, ye who call yourselves immortals, but you will eventually face the true immortals.

Galactic Confederation: We must respect the dark's free will and wait until they willingly choose to return to the Divine. Who are you to countermand the Laws of the Universe?

Fail Safe: You guys don't get it either.

[Patrick]

These Guardians from 8D seems rather something other than just harvested entities no?

...The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light-bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained...

[Ymarsakar]

The "next octave" would be basically the same as the future timeline. The Earth is in a "time lateral" as the Confederation calls it via Q'uo. So there is linear time, but also non linear time, and then there is an "octave" progression.

Within 3rd density, time is linear and things progress or repeat themselves. But there is also progression in densities of light and consciousness, back to Source or 8th density. Iamraw does not rate that as a linear time, although it takes linear time.

Then there are the progression of the difference in octaves, what is called "previous" vs "next" octave. That is much similar to the way we consider the linear time of past, present, and future. For mid 6th density SMCs, while they don't consider linear time as a thing, but to them there is still a future vs past progression in the octaves and densities. They have a future yet, because they are aware that they do not yet UNDERSTAND 7th density, as their mentors and teachers are at. If the Ever Present is only there all the time, then iamraw should already have unified with the different densities, but they clearly are aware that this requires some time of time or progression still.

https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q=Guardian

This is not a topic that pieces of various parts of the material can be separated out and understood via mental processes. First take all the references of the Guardian or Council of 9/Saturn, read the question, as well as the previous and next question to ascertain the context, then begin piecing together the story at a meta level.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

@J.W., I think there's a very basic difference in our perspectives. I think that microcosm-macrocosm differences have everything to do with how people are part of all, and that a flat "all is one" view is too misleading when, for example, people begin to think about the creator as having attitudes in response to human experiences.

I think the creator doesn't have any attitudes about human experience, because such attitudes are really too much like human attitudes, and can only exist close to the human level of the larger cosmos with its levels.

For thousands of years, religious and spiritual beliefs have often included a transformation to come soon, from the miserable and wretched present (in which people have had enough of suffering) to a nicer future state of things. For thousands of years, history has moved on without such a transformation occuring. What's the difference now, compared to very similar beliefs and attitudes throughout history, where people also had all kinds of ideas about why they were right when people before them had been wrong?

Douglas Adams, who wrote The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, had this to say: "... imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in -- an interesting hole I find myself in -- fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be all right, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for."

I think experiences with all of their intensity at lower levels of the cosmos are dwarfed, and cease to matter at all, by what exists on larger levels. In the grand scheme of things, human beings in relation to "the creator" may simply be like molecules of gas in relation to the solar system.

[Sacred Fool]

I think experiences with all of their intensity at lower levels of the cosmos are dwarfed, and cease to matter at all, by what exists on larger levels. In the grand scheme of things, human beings in relation to "the creator" may simply be like molecules of gas in relation to the solar system.

I'm a latecomer here (and cannot begin to see what the discussion at this point has to do with Cassiopeia), but I would agree with the above post up to the section I quoted.  To that I would counterpose that Ra claims one's entire soul stream can be positively realigned more easily in 3D than in the higher densities, number one.  Secondly, they say that we are an hologram of the Creatrix, and therefore heir to that full experience.  So, stay tuned.  This show may get more interesting as it progresses and one gas molecule finds within itself the experience of all gas molecules on up to all suns, galaxies and so forth.

 
Geez, I went through that so fast.  Did we pass by Cassiopeia yet?
  

[Asolsutsesvyl]

I think experiences with all of their intensity at lower levels of the cosmos are dwarfed, and cease to matter at all, by what exists on larger levels. In the grand scheme of things, human beings in relation to "the creator" may simply be like molecules of gas in relation to the solar system.

I'm a latecomer here (and cannot begin to see what the discussion at this point has to do with Cassiopeia), but I would agree with the above post up to the section I quoted.  To that I would counterpose that Ra claims one's entire soul stream can be positively realigned more easily in 3D than in the higher densities, number one.  Secondly, they say that we are an hologram of the Creatrix, and therefore heir to that full experience.  So, stay tuned.  This show may get more interesting as it progresses and one gas molecule finds within itself the experience of all gas molecules on up to all suns, galaxies and so forth.

 
Geez, I went through that so fast.  Did we pass by Cassiopeia yet?
  

This page of this thread has gone off on a philosophical tangent. For things closer to and sometimes even fully on topic, there's the earlier pages. (The previous one is pretty interesting.) But overall interest in the Cassiopaeans is pretty low, and I'm currently not bothering to bring it back on topic. So here's some more on this tangent...

The paragraph you quoted is a bit rough, I didn't fully express my thoughts, but it's tricky -- I haven't fully formulated these things yet. I think that consciousness may be a bit like layers of an onion, but further in, you cannot see out, but you can always see in. Roughly. It isn't quantity of experience which differs most significantly, but qualities, in ways that cannot be understood without being there further out, only thought about in very formless abstract ways while here further in. The meaning and weight and significance and what all we experience amounts to to us as we experience and remember it, is replaced by something qualitatively completely different outside the human imagination across the boundary. It doesn't become nothing, but what we have is no more, replaced instead by something else.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

In the other thread (about the Cassiopaea forum), this article has been discussed. It gathers various links to and some further quotes from the Cassiopaea channeling, while basically showing some of the worst it and the surrounding community has to offer. The very first session in 1994, for example, predicted that 94% of humanity would be totally consumed by 4D STS aliens around the year 2007. 2004 came the Cassiopaea is now Orion session. 2014 came an interview with the 5D Caesar who is the real 5D Jesus who projects his soul as a discarnate helper to all who pray, according to the Cassiopaeans. For now I leave this with the following question, "What is this crap?", concerning the Cassiopaeans.

There's a few good things to find in the Cassiopaea material here and there, but mostly I've lost interest in it. Later on I'll perhaps post the gist of some good nuggets.

[Patrick]

We are also told that each of our experience is sacramental in nature. But maybe it is the case for molecules of gaz as well.

Although, the enspirited part is probably an important component for experiences to be considered sacramental. The spirit is attracted to the entity at the end of 2d.

[Azarnac]

For thousands of years, religious and spiritual beliefs have often included a transformation to come soon, from the miserable and wretched present (in which people have had enough of suffering) to a nicer future state of things. For thousands of years, history has moved on without such a transformation occuring. What's the difference now, compared to very similar beliefs and attitudes throughout history, where people also had all kinds of ideas about why they were right when people before them had been wrong?

Eric Hoffer wrote an insightful book on the nature of mass movements all the way back in 1951, and he stated that the devaluing of the present in favour of a more glorious (but abstract) future is an important key point that most movements(religions, political mass movements) share.
I'd argue that spiritual paths do the opposite before they get corrupted and turned into a religion.
Hoffer also has interesting chapters on how vague doctrines become effective in such movements and who exactly gets drawn and fed by them. He even explains how they radically change in their outlook and methods over time. I highly recommend reading his book.

The very first session in 1994, for example, predicted that 94% of humanity would be totally consumed by 4D STS aliens around the year 2007. 2004 came the Cassiopaea is now Orion session. 2014 came an interview with the 5D Caesar who is the real 5D Jesus who projects his soul as a discarnate helper to all who pray, according to the Cassiopaeans. For now I leave this with the following question, "What is this crap?", concerning the Cassiopaeans.

You forgot the best part. Early on, it was announced that riding the wave, there would be a massive fleet of Nephilim on three immensely huge space ships carrying 12 million each, coming from Orion and headed our way.

There's a few good things to find in the Cassiopaea material here and there, but mostly I've lost interest in it. Later on I'll perhaps post the gist of some good nuggets.

See, that could be really interesting. I think you've done a good job showing how nutty LKJ has become, especially after the period Montalk left. But since some of us are quite familiar with the old material from the 90s, we could discuss some of the more salient metaphysical points they offered and how they might be of practical use. After all, the point of the RW article is to enlighten people that might otherwise fall prey to the Cassiopaean groupthink and to allow an alternative viewpoint that wouldn't be allowed on the Cassiopaean forums. But for recovering ex-groupies, it might be cool to find out what was actually useful in the older material and whether or not it can be seperated from the LKJ personality cult.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

I'll re-post one small but very basic thing, also on the topic of comparing Ra and C's:

Ra says that fourth density is a denser illusion. But everyone I talk to says that fourth density is less dense than 3D.
I had a channeling from a Sassani that said 4D is less dense than 3D.

How come Ra says it is more dense?


29.20 Questioner: Thank you. Then when our planet Earth here gets fully into fourth density, will there be a greater gravity?

Ra: I am Ra. There will be a greater spiritual gravity thus causing a denser illusion.

The problem here is you have to define what 'density' means in the chosen context. Obviously using the dimensions of mass over volume is not useful in this respect. So what are we defining? Information? Consciencnous? Experience?

That's exactly the problem. The word density is used alone, instead of making clear what kind of "density of ..." is meant. [...]

While I criticize the Cassiopaean material in various contexts, on this topic I actually think it is an advance in clarity.

In the Cassiopaean cosmology, density refers to density of consciousness, which is inverse to density of materiality. Materiality is the result when consciousness "sleeps", in a particular sense. When consciousness is fully awaken, it is also fully undivided, and 7D is reached.

But what would provide a more vs. less dense "illusion" or experience, as Ra sometimes talks about? Less consciousness, i.e. a lower density of consciousness, on the one hand veils more, and makes more of the cosmos a matter of the external environment to which the being is subjected - but on the other hand it also limits the qualities of experience.

3D is described as particularly intense in how an individual being experiences things. Maybe above 3D, raw intensity of experience lessens, while more information instead becomes reflected in the experience, a higher information density then represented in the awareness, which translates into a qualitatively greater illusion. That could be how 4D provides a denser illusion, as Ra claimed.

This also ties into the longer philosophical tangent above.

Here's another little thing. The Ra material maintained a basically symmetric, recursive concept framework, densities and subdensities, and rays alongside these, even at the cost of some lack of clarity from using a bare schematic structure in a very extended and generalized way to literally encompass all, without mentioning or resolving the logical clashes produced (e.g. 8D Guardians as individual beings is paradoxical).

The Cassiopaeans instead stripped it down to just 7 densities, and then, well, they introduce various little concepts, and add more and more little things each used to specific purposes. But unlike Ra, who asks Don to look for errors, and then acknowledges errors, issues corrections, and thanks Don for caring about quality, the Cassiopaeans instead always explain away seeming errors by introducing more ad-hoc ideas which complicate the teaching.

8D in Ra's teaching cannot be closer to any individual being or thing inside of the creation, logically, because 7D leads to unity and the erasing of all difference. Past unity, all is related to that unity, arises from that unity, and the reaching back of all which has arisen above 7D to the creation below 7D would, in the linear scale, reach back through unity, erasing all difference with the formless role of 7D influence. How can anything individual reach back from 8D+, and even less reach back through something individual existing at the other, below-7D, end?

Structure seems to emerge from 7D (or each multiple-of-7-D, including 0) in both directions -- upwards and downwards -- and to likewise disappear both ways when 7D is approached. A cycling seems to be described where differentiation grows to infinity and shrinks back to nothing. Here's a simple image which captures it neatly, by bending the line of progression.

Imagine a circle where the edge is 1D and the center is 7D. From edge to center, a curved line moves inwards, then crosses the center and exits it again for a different part of the edge, then turns as it comes close to the edge. This repeats, endlessly. A spiraling motion. Tracing out endless shapes looking like flower petals at an infinite number of positions.

You could make something coherent out of ideas of "Guardians from other octaves", and other interaction across octaves, by making the structure of what unfolds through density-progression more than one-dimensional. All differences disappear with 7D, so interactions between different creations, which Ra claim to be possible while these other creations are however said to be beyond 6D knowledge in this creation, would need to rely on movement which skips 7D or its multiples and instead connects portions of two octaves across areas of each at least somewhat closer to their middles.

[flofrog]

Thank you for re-posting Asolsutsesvyl.

Is there a moment where 7D steps out of creation ? Probably impossible to define through words of 3D language, as Ra said a few times.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

Is there a moment where 7D steps  out of creation ?  Probably impossible to define through words of 3D language, as Ra said a few times.

Perhaps it instead works to think of stepping into unity, or 7D, as stepping out of the duality of there being a separate creation to relate to. But this doesn't say anything about what would be experienced. And after that, it's all unknown and most questions seem not to work.

[Aion]

This is being a little cheeky but I just found and was thinking on this today...

11.9 Questioner: Are any of these people known in the history of our planet by name?

Ra: I am Ra. We will mention a few. The one known as Taras Bulba, the one known as Genghis Khan, the one known as Rasputin.

11.10 Questioner: How did they accomplish this? What was necessary for them to accomplish this?

Ra: All of the aforementioned entities were aware, through memory, of Atlantean understandings having to do with the use of the various centers of mind/body/spirit complex energy influx in attaining the gateway to intelligent infinity.

11.11 Questioner: Did this enable them to do what we refer to as magic? Do paranormal things while they were incarnate here?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. The first two entities mentioned made little use of these abilities consciously. However, they were bent single-mindedly upon service to self, sparing no efforts in personal discipline to double, re-double, and so empower this gateway. The third was a conscious adept and also spared no effort in the pursuit of service to self.

11.12 Questioner: Where are these three entities now?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are in the dimension known to you as fourth. Therefore, the space/time continua are not compatible. An approximation of the space/time locus of each would net no actual understanding. Each chose a fourth-density planet which was dedicated to the pursuit of the understanding of the Law of One through service to self: one in what you know as the Orion group, one in what you know as Cassiopeia, one in what you know as Southern Cross. However, these loci are not satisfactory. We do not have vocabulary for the geometric calculations necessary for transfer of this understanding to you.

Who do you think ended up in Cassiopeia, Taras Bulba or Rasputin?

[Dtris]

I'll re-post one small but very basic thing, also on the topic of comparing Ra and C's:

Ra says that fourth density is a denser illusion. But everyone I talk to says that fourth density is less dense than 3D.
I had a channeling from a Sassani that said 4D is less dense than 3D.

How come Ra says it is more dense?


29.20 Questioner: Thank you. Then when our planet Earth here gets fully into fourth density, will there be a greater gravity?

Ra: I am Ra. There will be a greater spiritual gravity thus causing a denser illusion.

The problem here is you have to define what 'density' means in the chosen context. Obviously using the dimensions of mass over volume is not useful in this respect. So what are we defining? Information? Consciencnous? Experience?

That's exactly the problem. The word density is used alone, instead of making clear what kind of "density of ..." is meant. [...]

While I criticize the Cassiopaean material in various contexts, on this topic I actually think it is an advance in clarity.

In the Cassiopaean cosmology, density refers to density of consciousness, which is inverse to density of materiality. Materiality is the result when consciousness "sleeps", in a particular sense. When consciousness is fully awaken, it is also fully undivided, and 7D is reached.

But what would provide a more vs. less dense "illusion" or experience, as Ra sometimes talks about? Less consciousness, i.e. a lower density of consciousness, on the one hand veils more, and makes more of the cosmos a matter of the external environment to which the being is subjected - but on the other hand it also limits the qualities of experience.

3D is described as particularly intense in how an individual being experiences things. Maybe above 3D, raw intensity of experience lessens, while more information instead becomes reflected in the experience, a higher information density then represented in the awareness, which translates into a qualitatively greater illusion. That could be how 4D provides a denser illusion, as Ra claimed.

This also ties into the longer philosophical tangent above.

Here's another little thing. The Ra material maintained a basically symmetric, recursive concept framework, densities and subdensities, and rays alongside these, even at the cost of some lack of clarity from using a bare schematic structure in a very extended and generalized way to literally encompass all, without mentioning or resolving the logical clashes produced (e.g. 8D Guardians as individual beings is paradoxical).

The Cassiopaeans instead stripped it down to just 7 densities, and then, well, they introduce various little concepts, and add more and more little things each used to specific purposes. But unlike Ra, who asks Don to look for errors, and then acknowledges errors, issues corrections, and thanks Don for caring about quality, the Cassiopaeans instead always explain away seeming errors by introducing more ad-hoc ideas which complicate the teaching.

8D in Ra's teaching cannot be closer to any individual being or thing inside of the creation, logically, because 7D leads to unity and the erasing of all difference. Past unity, all is related to that unity, arises from that unity, and the reaching back of all which has arisen above 7D to the creation below 7D would, in the linear scale, reach back through unity, erasing all difference with the formless role of 7D influence. How can anything individual reach back from 8D+, and even less reach back through something individual existing at the other, below-7D, end?

Structure seems to emerge from 7D (or each multiple-of-7-D, including 0) in both directions -- upwards and downwards -- and to likewise disappear both ways when 7D is approached. A cycling seems to be described where differentiation grows to infinity and shrinks back to nothing. Here's a simple image which captures it neatly, by bending the line of progression.

Imagine a circle where the edge is 1D and the center is 7D. From edge to center, a curved line moves inwards, then crosses the center and exits it again for a different part of the edge, then turns as it comes close to the edge. This repeats, endlessly. A spiraling motion. Tracing out endless shapes looking like flower petals at an infinite number of positions.

You could make something coherent out of ideas of "Guardians from other octaves", and other interaction across octaves, by making the structure of what unfolds through density-progression more than one-dimensional. All differences disappear with 7D, so interactions between different creations, which Ra claim to be possible while these other creations are however said to be beyond 6D knowledge in this creation, would need to rely on movement which skips 7D or its multiples and instead connects portions of two octaves across areas of each at least somewhat closer to their middles.

My understanding is that the octave works the same as the music scale. We can hear multiple octaves of sound, but the notes repeat. This major octave is still one in an infinite cycle. The 8th note is also the first. So an 8D entity in our octave is a 1st density in the next. In the concept of densities we might be able to assume that the individuated portions of the creator continue their evolution thru the densities and that the higher densities can interact with the lower.

It is possible that we are interacting with a lower octave than our own in some ways, such as experiments with sub-atomic particles.

[Asolsutsesvyl]

My understanding is that the octave works the same as the music scale. We can hear multiple octaves of sound, but the notes repeat. This major octave is still one in an infinite cycle. The 8th note is also the first. So an 8D entity in our octave is a 1st density in the next. In the concept of densities we might be able to assume that the individuated portions of the creator continue their evolution thru the densities and that the higher densities can interact with the lower.

It is possible that we are interacting with a lower octave than our own in some ways, such as experiments with sub-atomic particles.

There's a larger range of interpretations discussed of the Ra cosmology than of the Cassiopaean cosmology, because the formulation is left rather open-ended. I've noticed that most people here that describe a structure of the cosmos in terms of densities reduce the cosmology to a subset of possible ideas. I'm no exception in that regard. I'll try to describe the main criteria I use, or the overall angle in what differs.

The cosmology somehow ranges from the unity of the creator to the greatest complexity of division. How can it all fit together in one "something"? If unity is not reached when 7D is entered, then where else, is it after X octaves, or after an infinite number of octaves? If individual beings still exist around 7D, then you have a different scale than the one I try to picture.

In the Cassiopaean cosmology, the attempt is made to fit "everything" (or a somewhat simplified view thereof) into a scale of 7. The density scale becomes a gradient ranging from perfect fullness (7D, all alive as one) to perfect emptiness (that which is merely thoughts in the mind of, perhaps, the logos, and which lead a purely virtual existence). I still use that basic frame of reference.

What's the use of several octaves if nothing can truly be bigger than 7D? It comes mainly from zooming in, as is done in the Ra cosmology, and considering smaller octaves. For example, when you divide each density into 7 steps, and you count from step 1 in 3D, then step 8 is the first step in 4D. And if subatomic particles are lower than atomic ones, then you'd presumably find them by zooming in on the lower end of 1D.

[flofrog]

Thank you Asol, I always had a little problem and you make that much more clear for my feeble brain.

[Dtris]

My understanding is that the octave works the same as the music scale. We can hear multiple octaves of sound, but the notes repeat. This major octave is still one in an infinite cycle. The 8th note is also the first. So an 8D entity in our octave is a 1st density in the next. In the concept of densities we might be able to assume that the individuated portions of the creator continue their evolution thru the densities and that the higher densities can interact with the lower.

It is possible that we are interacting with a lower octave than our own in some ways, such as experiments with sub-atomic particles.

There's a larger range of interpretations discussed of the Ra cosmology than of the Cassiopaean cosmology, because the formulation is left rather open-ended. I've noticed that most people here that describe a structure of the cosmos in terms of densities reduce the cosmology to a subset of possible ideas. I'm no exception in that regard. I'll try to describe the main criteria I use, or the overall angle in what differs.

The cosmology somehow ranges from the unity of the creator to the greatest complexity of division. How can it all fit together in one "something"? If unity is not reached when 7D is entered, then where else, is it after X octaves, or after an infinite number of octaves? If individual beings still exist around 7D, then you have a different scale than the one I try to picture.

In the Cassiopaean cosmology, the attempt is made to fit "everything" (or a somewhat simplified view thereof) into a scale of 7. The density scale becomes a gradient ranging from perfect fullness (7D, all alive as one) to perfect emptiness (that which is merely thoughts in the mind of, perhaps, the logos, and which lead a purely virtual existence). I still use that basic frame of reference.

What's the use of several octaves if nothing can truly be bigger than 7D? It comes mainly from zooming in, as is done in the Ra cosmology, and considering smaller octaves. For example, when you divide each density into 7 steps, and you count from step 1 in 3D, then step 8 is the first step in 4D. And if subatomic particles are lower than atomic ones, then you'd presumably find them by zooming in on the lower end of 1D.

I think where we diverge is that I do not think individuality ever ends. In my understanding of the Ra Cosmology, the only time when unity is re-established is when the creation is brought back into the creator which happens periodically. I think the idea that 7D is complete unity with the creation comes from this portion.

16.22 Questioner: Thank you very much. In previous material, before we communicated with you, it was stated by the Confederation that there is actually no past or future… all is present. Would this be a good analogy?

Ra: I am Ra. There is past, present, and future in third density. In an overview such as an entity may have, removed from the space/time continuum, it may be seen that in the cycle of completion there exists only the present. We, ourselves, seek to learn this understanding. At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.

I think their description here, as in other places is woefully inadequate to describe the actual state they are attempting to describe. This passage is somewhat contradicted by the following.

4.20 Questioner: My objective is primarily to discover more of the Law of One, and [it would] be very helpful to discover techniques of healing. I am aware of your problem with respect to free will. Can you make… You cannot make suggestions, so I will ask you if you can state the Law of One and the laws of healing to me?

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator.

The following passage is where I base much of my concept of their cosmology extending in infinite octaves, as well as references to guardians who come from the next octave to aid in harvest.

28.16 Questioner: Are you saying then there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?

Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.

However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.

In the above passage and at least one other passage Ra refers to their own teachers, which iirc are from the seventh density. To be able to teach someone in sixth density there must be some sort of individualization. Beyond that, I personally try to avoid speculating what higher densities are like, as I personally think it is impossible to be accurate within the language limitations and our limited perspective as incarnated humans.

[Patrick]

...I do not think individuality ever ends. In my understanding of the Ra Cosmology, the only time when unity is re-established is when the creation is brought back into the creator which happens periodically. I think the idea that 7D is complete unity with the creation comes from this portion...

That is my understanding as well.