What is faith?

[Cainite]

4.What should the seeker have faith in?
3.There are so many scary things that can happen. should we be blind to them? won't we be disappointed?
2.The enlightened sufis spoke of letting go of intellect. how does that work?
1.Should we set aside our intelligence in favor of having faith?

[xise]

1-4 I don't know. Here's what resonates with me:

Ra basically talks about faith as some sort of belief in intelligent infinity. My understanding is always evolving but I believe that faith is the concept that the universe makes sense and love will shine through, eventually, though in a general sort of way. 

I think when people have faith that X will happen, where X is a specific event, that's not how faith works imo. If you really believe X is going to happen, that's probably more of an intuition or hope because I think faith operates in a general way. Ie, you can have faith that the universe will still provide for your basic necessities and show you love when you are in danger of losing your home (though you may lose your home), as opposed to having faith that the universe would never let you lose your home (which is belief in a particular specific reality configuration rather than belief in things will work out in a general way)

[Cainite]

1-4 I don't know. Here's what resonates with me:

Ra basically talks about faith as some sort of belief in intelligent infinity. My understanding is always evolving but I believe that faith is the concept that the universe makes sense and love will shine through, eventually, though in a general sort of way. 

I think when people have faith that X will happen, where X is a specific event, that's not how faith works imo. If you really believe X is going to happen, that's probably more of an intuition or hope because I think faith operates in a general way. Ie, you can have faith that the universe will still provide for your basic necessities and show you love when you are in danger of losing your home (though you may lose your home), as opposed to having faith that the universe would never let you lose your home (which is belief in a particular specific reality configuration rather than belief in things will work out in a general way)

So ''things will be fine, though I should still be careful''

Alright. I can live with that.

I wonder if this not being much of a reality in negative places makes the entities there unable to find polarization (STO) possible.

Also :

5.the distortion towards understanding and knowing, can it be counterproductive to the practice of faith?

[Minyatur]

I think faith is a bit like knowledge of spirit.

It's not something you can explain or transfer to someone, it is something you gain by being open with sincerity. Like I've had faith there is something like a God, that we live in an intelligent design, but this followed an openness to the idea in which I admitted to not know and this has allowed me to touch something. Once I've touched that thing, I may not know how to define it or know everything about it, but I do know it is there to be touched and I think this is what people call faith and it is closer to a kind of knowing than belief.

Like in a relationship, faith is closer to knowledge that the link between spirits could be tested and remain strong. It is a form of knowledge of your link with the other person. In the same fashion, faith is a form of knowledge regarding your link with yourself, then you can have faith in your own spirit and inner light, you can have faith that the world is supported by a loving Logos, you can have faith in Infinity and fate, but all these things are things that it is not of the quality of the mind to contain and instead merely access.

This is a bit why I try to advocate for faith in that "All is Well". To me it is not just technique for a positive mindset and healthy emotional body, instead it is much more of a form of surrendering to an underlying truth that has its own mass and weight in our being.

I think associating faith with events is somewhat misguided, because if you have faith in Infinity then there is no avoiding events. Not everything needs to happen here and now in the distance of your self, but I think it releases fear and tension to accept any possibility that enters your mind and brings us in harmony with the core of ourselves.

So:

5.the distortion towards understanding and knowing, can it be counterproductive to the practice of faith?

Only if it becomes an end.

4.What should the seeker have faith in?

All is well and what happens is what needs to happen, enabling yourself to recognize it as it happens in its symbolic fashion.

3.There are so many scary things that can happen. should we be blind to them? won't we be disappointed?

Your truest nature is that of infinite potential. It is better to act upon the moment and its opportunities than to live in fear and doubt, follow your heart.

2.The enlightened sufis spoke of letting go of intellect. how does that work?

I think it tries to speak of a state of openness. Some people are stuck in belief that they know it all, when I believe there's always more to discover for every thing.
Even the Creator uses infinite time and experience to see its reflection and learn of Itself.

1.Should we set aside our intelligence in favor of having faith?

I think faith is found through seeking and seeking derives from intelligence, so I would say no they can't be fully separated.
Even silencing the mind in meditation derives from intelligence and experiencing with it offers to know its utilities and usefulness. Then you can have faith in meditation, but there will always be more to discover from it, which is the opposite of thinking you know everything there is to know about it.

[Cainite]

Very thoughtful! thanks guys!

[Stranger]

I did a quick search for "faith" on lawofone.info - here's the link to the results: https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q=faith

I think "faith" is the acceptance of the Law of One - the eternal, indestructible perfection of the Creator who is one's true identity, affording one a sense of hope and safety despite any temporary inconveniences and all the apparent evidence to the contrary present in our veiled illusion. Although Ra doesn't mention faith here, I think they are describing it:

4.20 Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator.

One of the primal distortions of the Law of One is that of healing. Healing occurs when a mind/body/spirit complex realizes, deep within itself, the Law of One; that is, that there is no disharmony, no imperfection; that all is complete and whole and perfect. Thus, the intelligent infinity within this mind/body/spirit complex re-forms the illusion of body, mind, or spirit to a form congruent with the Law of One. The healer acts as energizer or catalyst for this completely individual process.

A few more quotes to clarify what Ra implies by "faith":

80.13 ▶ Questioner: Then is this, from the point of view or with respect to the fifteenth archetype, somewhat of an excursion into the Matrix of the Spirit in this process? Does that make any sense?

Ra: I am Ra. The excursion of which you speak and the process of disassociation is most usually linked with that archetype you call Hope which we would prefer to call Faith.

67.30 Ra: I am Ra. [...] Each seeker will experience each archetype in the characteristics within the complex of the archetype which are most important to it. An example of this would be the observation of the questioner that the Fool is described in such and such a way. One great aspect of this archetype is the aspect of faith, the walking into space without regard for what is to come next. [...]

I also noticed that Ra very consistently refers to "faculties of will and faith", placing "will" and "faith" together as if together they are one concept, and repeatedly making the point that these faculties are to be developed. At first I wasn't sure what the connection is; but the last few results helped to make it clear. There, Ra uses "faithful" to connote persistence on the spiritual path in the face of difficulty or adversity, eg,

81.8 ▶ Questioner: What could be the result of this continued wearying effect after a long period?

Ra: I am Ra. You ask a general query with infinite answers. We shall over-generalize in order to attempt to reply.

One group might be tempted and thus lose the very contact which caused the difficulty. So the story would end.

Another group might be strong at first but not faithful in the face of difficulty. Thus the story would end.

Another group might choose the path of martyrdom in its completeness and use the instrument until its physical body complex failed from the harsh toll demanded when all energy was gone.

This particular group, at this particular nexus, is attempting to conserve the vital energy of the instrument. It is attempting to balance love of service and wisdom of service, and it is faithful to the service in the face of difficulty. Temptation has not yet ended this group’s story.

It seems to me that Ra is expressing that spiritual growth requires both faith (belief in the perfect, harmonious oneness of all) and will (persistence in making choices that are consistent with that belief). Together, these produce faithfulness: steadfast commitment to living the Law of One.

[schubert]

my definition would be when u dont know if something is true but you want it to be so you say that u believe it.

when it comes to beliefs i think its important to separate ur ego from ur knowledge. list what you know and what u can reason and try to stop there and avoid making a definitive judgement call. "because of so and so i think this is likely to be true" rather than what i would see as a faith mindset if you said "because of so and so i believe this is true". most people will just say "believe" rather than "likely to be true" just cause its easier but i think its good to know distinction. if u start believing things rather than keeping a more open mind then u may stop questioning and learning.

sometimes u may not have ready access to information to a question and having "faith" in something can be a useful way to not worry about knowing the actual answer.

[flofrog]

I love that Stranger.
To me that is faith too, the belief in harmonious oneness which little by little becomes that complete trust that so it is, like this is evident.

[Louisabell]

For me faith is the seat of one's spiritual power. Ra used words as only approximations, so I can only go by my personal work in faith and the LOO.

In my meditations and experiences I have been shown that the essence of faith is created when the intensity and passions of one's love is combined with the precision and focus of one's wisdom, a power approximating the word faith is expressed which is the sum total of your spiritual being. Faith is the power of co-creator and allows one the mental/emotional fortitude needed to do any magical work in an infinite universe full of other co-creators. Faith allows one to hold steady in the face of catalyst, allows energy transfers at sixth and pushes back oppositional forces that wish to take over your mental faculties (STS greeting/bidding).

Is it not so much what you have faith in, but the strength of that faith. You may empower anything you desire.  Ultimate faith will not waiver, not be hindered, not be limited in any way - not even by the rules governing the illusionary reality.

3.9 ▶ Questioner: I am reminded of the statement, approximately, if you had enough faith, you could say to a mountain to move and the mountain would move. I assume this is approximately what you are saying, and I am assuming that if you are fully aware of the Law of One, then you are able to do these things. Is that correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The vibratory distortion of sound, faith, is perhaps one of the stumbling blocks between those of what we may call the infinite path and those of the finite proving/understanding.

You are precisely correct in your understanding of the congruency of faith and intelligent infinity; however, one is a spiritual term, the other more acceptable perhaps to the conceptual framework distortions of those who seek with measure and pen.

Why is faith so important? I believe it is because when the creative force of love is combined with the wisdom of who one truly is, it is only then that we begin to truly separate as fully fledged individuals, while also being so intrinsically connected to the unity of all things. The whole society could be against you, but with the strength of faith one can turn around in confidence and say, "here is where I stand, I will not falter in my convictions, I will not forsake my principles, let the consequences be as they will". On a physical level one may see this as foolish/too idealistic, but on a metaphysical level it is like an explosion of power as new thought-forms and timelines of possibility burst into being.

In the LOO faith is closely linked to the sixth ray, which works to balance love and wisdom. This also balances one's faith, as love empowers and light elucidates that which one is faithful to.

The green-ray type of radiation in this case is the healing, the blue-ray the communication and inspiration, the indigo that energy of the adept which has its place in faith.

 If the polarized entities, by this same energy transfer experience, find that the faculties of will and faith have been stimulated, not for a brief while but for a great duration of what you call time, you may perceive the indigo-ray transfer.

Over time what I put my faith in has evolved, hoping to refine these essences as I go on. Currently it is something approaching this sentiment - I am a microcosm of infinity, therefore I can express every emotion, every thought, every energy, and so if I am ever taken, trapped or forsaken, I will rise up again in victory, being even more brilliant than before. It is a version of the "all is well" idea, just a bit more tailored for me, which I felt needed to acknowledge that even if all is well, it doesn't mean there won't be serious challenges along the way.

[Sacred Fool]

 
My relationship with faith is something related to what Louisabell describes.  The chakras can be viewed as ascending levels of consciousness: first random, then personal and directed, then corporate, then universal and so forth.  As one reaches from the level in which one is comfortable to a more intense level, it is difficult to navigate.  What can one use as a guide or compass in an as yet unfamiliar realm of consciousness?  The answer is Self, and yet it is, by definition, difficult to know self in a new level of consciousness.  For me, faith is that innate awareness of self at that new level of consciousness, in all of its mystery and confusion.  It's feeling and knowing the veracity of Love, for example, even where there is much confusion and obfuscation about what is what.  Faith is that vague knowing of Self as the Creator, even in the context of disarray and disorientation.  The more one follows that knowing, that faith, and creates pathways of discovery, the more one opens to a more articulated consciousness of Self and of the Creator.

Of course, this is maybe not as easy as I might make it sound.  It takes practice and determination and, I would aver, a notably deep dedication to service. For me, this process is exemplified by the little group which brought forth the Ra Material.
 
 

[Diana]

The answer is Self, and yet it is, by definition, difficult to know self in a new level of consciousness.  For me, faith is that innate awareness of self at that new level of consciousness, in all of its mystery and confusion. 

This is really insightful. Add to this that time outside of 3D is not linear, and "faith" is actually "knowingness." But it isn't knowingness for anything specific, rather it's a sense of empowerment, or a sense of possibilities beyond this realm. A sense that we are more than what we seem to be here. A perception of the larger reality.

This goes back to focusing on self, because having faith may entail trying to believe something and that may result in closing the doors to other possibilities (resistance). Evolution of consciousness happens in an organic, dynamic, and natural way. Rather than have the intention to know how things are, in my view it's more efficacious to have the intention to grow and evolve (shift focus to self). That said, there is nothing wrong with curiosity. I have always been curious and wanting to know things, but the key, to me, is not thinking you ever have the "real" answers. As we evolve, we are able to hold more and more consciousness, so there will likely never be a time when we know all. Whatever the source may be of this existence, such as a OIC, it follows that that source is evolving along with individual pieces of it. 

[Cainite]

The answers everyone provided really helped and made me think. thanks

[Signifyz]

2.The enlightened sufis spoke of letting go of intellect. how does that work?

For me it works by pursuing intellectual knowledge far enough into it's paradoxes/follies, e.g. logical systems and Gödel's incompleteness theorem; physical matter realness and quantum non-locality, particle/wave duality, event horizon relativeness and it's particle birthing; space itself and seeing it from the perspective of physical light. I suppose any intellectual sphere must contain some kind of soft boundary, where the mind sees the unreasonableness of further way down old path.

1.Should we set aside our intelligence in favor of having faith

I think yes, but not from the point of fear.

[schubert]

1.Should we set aside our intelligence in favor of having faith

I think yes, but not from the point of fear.

i think everything is logical by nature and u can pursue scientific understanding as far as u want and it can bring great benefits like new technology. if u ask me it makes sense to set aside seeking scientific explanations if doing so doesnt serve u, curiosity is a good enough reason but if ur in a place where u want say spiritual development then when that desire overrides ur curiosity of the scientific explanation u can set it aside and go more off intuition. especially if understanding it scientifically is a big undertaking that would take a lot of time and energy but ur not rly interested in that u just want to have this new belief. ur intuition can tell you that its good, u dont have to 100% fully understand it.

[Stranger]

Cainite, thank you. Your thread has helped me reach a new level in this game we call illusion.

Briefly, this thread helped me to realize that right here, right now, we are also the Creator, and I chose to look out through that lens instead of the little-me personality lens at a Catholic mass I attended. It's a little like the different lenses optometrists click into place during an eye exam. I knew that at the same time as I was me, I was also the Creator pretending not to be the Creator, and switched into that, simply by knowing (through faith) that it was possible and therefore choosing it.

As I shifted into the Creator-within-me, I noticed that this version of me was resting in a state of profound calm: unhurried, undisturbed, peaceful.

And I remained veiled of course, but my attitude suddenly changed. I started checking with myself how I felt about things, and discovered a radical shift. For instance, I checked, how do I feel about an issue I'd been frustrated and fighting through for years now? And discovered that I now felt, 100%, "that is how it needs to be." That was shocking. I triple-checked and yep, that's how I now felt about something that had felt like a lodestone around my neck for years.

I checked my-as-Creator attitude toward the world, and noticed it was a deeply sincere, tender caring for all and every part of it, but surprisingly without any hint of feeling that anything was wrong or needed to be "fixed." That was surprising. I noticed that as soon as I would try to think about using this state to "fix" something, I would immediately begin shifting out of Creator-consciousness into something much smaller and less whole/healthy.

I got curious about the people around me - and suddenly it felt like I somehow turned 180 degrees inside, so that instead of seeing people outside myself I was now facing the entire Universe inside myself, symbolized as a kind of living, pulsating fruit, with the people and everything else being in it. I and it were one system with something like electricity flowing from me into the "fruit" and back again with no discontinuity. In this inner Universe, everything was simple, unadorned - just points of Creator's consciousness contributing to the dream. It felt like a behind-the-stage look at a theater, where everything is simple and functional, meanwhile on stage it's all dazzle and opulence. It was a peaceful reality, and I felt so much tenderness toward it, a wanting to nurture it.

During all of this something shifted from my heart chakra up to the throat, which quickly cleared. It's hard to explain but I felt that I had somehow shifted up from the heart to the throat, that this was the place from which I was now experiencing life. (an inner voice said, you've taken the next step). I was also sweating, and my third eye was going absolutely nuts with intense sensation for about an hour while, with my eyes closed, I also repeatedly saw a vivid circle of purple light in the middle of my forehead. My consciousness felt like the soothing mental fuzziness of a hypnotic trance. At the conclusion of this, an inner voice said, "today has been like Christmas for your soul."

Since then I've found myself with this calm, serene state as my baseline. It has been a strange contradiction where, when emotions do come, I feel them more sharply and vividly (which isn't great), but I also take them less seriously, don't buy into them as much, and therefore seem to be able to easily step out of an emotion-state just by choosing to do so. It's like I'm not that upset or concerned about anything, it's all fine, no big deal, although I can allow myself to get anxious if I choose to. There's a pleasant warmth of love naturally present in my heart and throat. I don't seem to get upset or irritable as much, and when I do it's an easy choice to move away from that - like, "nah, why would I want to go to that not-fun place?"

Why am I posting this? Because we're all seekers here, and I've found it super helpful to learn that we have many available perspectives or personas through which we can experience reality. The default, human-me is just one of them, and we can shift into others. I decided to put my faith in the fact that I am also the Creator who is all-that-is into action, right here and right now - the whole and perfect Creator-me, even though that whole-and-perfect me is still hard at work at the task of tweaking the human-persona it's carrying around into a more harmonious configuration.
This seems to have paid off.

Thank you for the catalyst, Cainite!

[Cainite]

Cainite, thank you.  Your thread has helped me reach a new level in this game we call illusion.  

Briefly, this thread helped me to realize that right here, right now, we are also the Creator, and I chose to look out through that lens instead of the little-me personality lens at a Catholic mass I attended.  It's a little like the different lenses optometrists click into place during an eye exam.  I knew that at the same time as I was me, I was also the Creator pretending not to be the Creator, and switched into that, simply by knowing (through faith) that it was possible and therefore choosing it.    

As I shifted into the Creator-within-me, I noticed that this version of me was resting in a state of profound calm: unhurried, undisturbed, peaceful.

And I remained veiled of course, but my attitude suddenly changed.  I started checking with myself how I felt about things, and discovered a radical shift.  For instance, I checked, how do I feel about an issue I'd been frustrated and fighting through for years now?  And discovered that I now felt, 100%, "that is how it needs to be."  That was shocking.  I triple-checked and yep, that's how I now felt about something that had felt like a lodestone around my neck for years.

I checked my-as-Creator attitude toward the world, and noticed it was a deeply sincere, tender caring for all and every part of it, but surprisingly without any hint of feeling that anything was wrong or needed to be "fixed."  That was surprising.  I noticed that as soon as I would try to think about using this state to "fix" something, I would immediately begin shifting out of Creator-consciousness into something much smaller and less whole/healthy.

I got curious about the people around me - and suddenly it felt like I somehow turned 180 degrees inside, so that instead of seeing people outside myself I was now facing the entire Universe inside myself, symbolized as a kind of living, pulsating fruit, with the people and everything else being in it.  I and it were one system with something like electricity flowing from me into the "fruit" and back again with no discontinuity.  In this inner Universe, everything was simple, unadorned - just points of Creator's consciousness contributing to the dream.  It felt like a behind-the-stage look at a theater, where everything is simple and functional, meanwhile on stage it's all dazzle and opulence.  It was a peaceful reality, and I felt so much tenderness toward it, a wanting to nurture it.

During all of this something shifted from my heart chakra up to the throat, which quickly cleared.  It's hard to explain but I felt that I had somehow shifted up from the heart to the throat, that this was the place from which I was now experiencing life.   (an inner voice said, you've taken the next step).  I was also sweating, and my third eye was going absolutely nuts with intense sensation for about an hour while, with my eyes closed, I also repeatedly saw a vivid circle of purple light in the middle of my forehead. My consciousness felt like the soothing mental fuzziness of a hypnotic trance.   At the conclusion of this, an inner voice said, "today has been like Christmas for your soul."

Since then I've found myself with this calm, serene state as my baseline.  It has been a strange contradiction where, when emotions do come, I feel them more sharply and vividly (which isn't great), but I also take them less seriously, don't buy into them as much, and therefore seem to be able to easily step out of an emotion-state just by choosing to do so.  It's like I'm not that upset or concerned about anything, it's all fine, no big deal, although I can allow myself to get anxious if I choose to.  There's a pleasant warmth of love naturally present in my heart and throat.  I don't seem to get upset or irritable as much, and when I do it's an easy choice to move away from that - like, "nah, why would I want to go to that not-fun place?"

Why am I posting this?  Because we're all seekers here, and I've found it super helpful to learn that we have many available perspectives or personas through which we can experience reality.  The default, human-me is just one of them, and we can shift into others.  I decided to put my faith in the fact that I am also the Creator who is all-that-is into action, right here and right now - the whole and perfect Creator-me, even though that whole-and-perfect me is still hard at work at the task of tweaking the human-persona it's carrying around into a more harmonious configuration.
This seems to have paid off.  

Thank you for the catalyst, Cainite!

You're welcome!

The real purpose of the seeking and sharing here is to go through these transformations.

Tell us when you became enlightened

[loostudent]

4.What should the seeker have faith in?
3.There are so many scary things that can happen. should we be blind to them? won't we be disappointed?
2.The enlightened sufis spoke of letting go of intellect. how does that work?
1.Should we set aside our intelligence in favor of having faith?

Cainite, thanks for starting this thread!

This is a vast subject. Hope and trust are also related ... I think faith is the very essence of a seeker (and an adept). Especially in this veiled 3.d. Faith is basically accepting truth without proof and infinite possibility and walking into this space (like The Fool archetype). This means not denying rational intelligence but accepting its limitations and being open for something more. Truth without proof is seeing reality beyond/despite what appears to be the only reality. This can be Creator, angels, life after death, unity of all things, miracles etc. At some point the seeking becomes conscious. The seeker becomes aware of the deep desire for getting closer with the Creator=Truth. Faith opens the gate.

The vibratory distortion of sound, faith, is perhaps one of the stumbling blocks between those of what we may call the infinite path and those of the finite proving/understanding. (3.9)

The mystery and unknown quality of the occurrences [UFOs] we are allowed to offer have the hoped-for intention of making your peoples aware of infinite possibility. When your peoples grasp infinity, then and only then, can the gateway be opened to the Law of One. (7.12)

The mechanism of inspiration involves an extraordinary faculty of desire or will to know or to receive in a certain area accompanied by the ability to open to and trust in what you may call intuition. (38.4)

16.53 Questioner: All right. Continuing with what we were just talking about, namely densities: I understand then that each density has seven sub-densities which again have seven sub-densities which again have seven sub-densities. This expands at an extremely large rate as things are increased in powers of seven. Does this mean that in any density level anything that you can think of is happening? And many things that you never thought of are happening… are there… everything is happening… this is confusing…

Ra: I am Ra. From your confusion we select the concept with which you struggle, that being infinite opportunity. You may consider any possibility/probability complex as having an existence.

About balance between intellectual and intuitive mind (I think the same goes for reason and faith):

The function of intuition is to inform intelligence. In your illusion the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception. As you may see, these two types of brain structure need to be balanced in order that the net sum of experiential catalyst will be polarization and illumination, for without the acceptance by the rational mind of the worth of the intuitive faculty the creative aspects which aid in illumination will be stifled. (49.4)

[LuVi]

I think faith is a bit like knowledge of spirit.

It's not something you can explain or transfer to someone, it is something you gain by being open with sincerity. Like I've had faith there is something like a God, that we live in an intelligent design, but this followed an openness to the idea in which I admitted to not know and this has allowed me to touch something. Once I've touched that thing, I may not know how to define it or know everything about it, but I do know it is there to be touched and I think this is what people call faith and it is closer to a kind of knowing than belief.

Like in a relationship, faith is closer to knowledge that the link between spirits could be tested and remain strong. It is a form of knowledge of your link with the other person. In the same fashion, faith is a form of knowledge regarding your link with yourself, then you can have faith in your own spirit and inner light, you can have faith that the world is supported by a loving Logos, you can have faith in Infinity and fate, but all these things are things that it is not of the quality of the mind to contain and instead merely access.

This is a bit why I try to advocate for faith in that "All is Well". To me it is not just technique for a positive mindset and healthy emotional body, instead it is much more of a form of surrendering to an underlying truth that has its own mass and weight in our being.

I think associating faith with events is somewhat misguided, because if you have faith in Infinity then there is no avoiding events. Not everything needs to happen here and now in the distance of your self, but I think it releases fear and tension to accept any possibility that enters your mind and brings us in harmony with the core of ourselves.

So:

5.the distortion towards understanding and knowing, can it be counterproductive to the practice of faith?

Only if it becomes an end.

4.What should the seeker have faith in?

All is well and what happens is what needs to happen, enabling yourself to recognize it as it happens in its symbolic fashion.

3.There are so many scary things that can happen. should we be blind to them? won't we be disappointed?

Your truest nature is that of infinite potential. It is better to act upon the moment and its opportunities than to live in fear and doubt, follow your heart.

2.The enlightened sufis spoke of letting go of intellect. how does that work?

I think it tries to speak of a state of openness. Some people are stuck in belief that they know it all, when I believe there's always more to discover for every thing.
Even the Creator uses infinite time and experience to see its reflection and learn of Itself.

1.Should we set aside our intelligence in favor of having faith?

I think faith is found through seeking and seeking derives from intelligence, so I would say no they can't be fully separated.
Even silencing the mind in meditation derives from intelligence and experiencing with it offers to know its utilities and usefulness. Then you can have faith in meditation, but there will always be more to discover from it, which is the opposite of thinking you know everything there is to know about it.

I agree!

[Ixchel]

No you're supposed to control your thoughts each fith minute. That way, you can detect anything as time goes by and quickly take anything not in harmony.
Faith is unity, with source. Where you know your power in the one. Where you don't let go of that no matter what happens. As that's the key to everything and yes it will be tested but use everything as a test and you will make it.
You are never given more than source think you can handle and he's a sick b lol as he gives you more.
But, it's the way to grow.
So how do you handle it by focus on source in all.

[anagogy]

4.What should the seeker have faith in?
3.There are so many scary things that can happen. should we be blind to them? won't we be disappointed?
2.The enlightened sufis spoke of letting go of intellect. how does that work?
1.Should we set aside our intelligence in favor of having faith?

1. Have faith in faith and also in unity.
2. Have faith that the universe wants to help you. Accept that there are many difficult realities we humans create for ourselves, but it can always get better, even if we accidentally create a difficult reality accidentally. Have faith that all is well, and the pattern of illusions that make up your mind/body/spirit will be reformed in that image.
3. Focus your awareness on awareness itself and realize that intellect, or thought, is simply the shape of your awareness at any given point in time. When you focus on the present moment awareness, you begin to return to the shapeless and formless state that your spirit naturally exists in. Dwelling in this space naturally begins to dissolve distortion, like soaking a dirty rag in soap water, the grime begins to dissolve.
4. Intelligence is there to appreciate the creations of faith, so they aren't diametrically opposed to one another.

What is faith?

Faith is complete trust, confidence, or belief. It could also be described as a certain threshold of intelligent energy. It is associated with the indigo level of intelligent energy. There is a step beyond faith, in violet ray, and that level is *knowing*. You might call that "perfected faith". But indigo energy is powerful, and shapes reality.

The spectrum of intelligent energy ranging from red to violet, is a spectrum between complete doubt and absolute knowing.

Faith is the bridge, or shuttle, between the divine infinity and illusion of separation. It is also part and parcel of the spirit complex.

[AnthroHeart]

The spectrum of intelligent energy ranging from red to violet, is a spectrum between complete doubt and absolute knowing.

I don't think red to violet goes from complete doubt to absolute knowing.
Animals in 2D don't have a veil, and they know their connection with Creator. That is orange ray.
That is why they are embodiments of unconditional love.

[anagogy]

The spectrum of intelligent energy ranging from red to violet, is a spectrum between complete doubt and absolute knowing.

I don't think red to violet goes from complete doubt to absolute knowing.
Animals in 2D don't have a veil, and they know their connection with Creator. That is orange ray.
That is why they are embodiments of unconditional love.

Well you're entitled to your opinion, but animals still experience fear and pain, even not having the veil. They might have some awareness in life that death is not the end, some instinctual awareness that they will return to the group animal mind at death, but I think they experience plenty of doubt, pain, and fear. I hike a lot, and I see scared animals all the time, also ones that are diseased and clearly in pain. So, I guess I don't agree that they are in constant bliss or anything like that. It would be nice if they were, but I just don't think that is the case.

[xise]

The spectrum of intelligent energy ranging from red to violet, is a spectrum between complete doubt and absolute knowing.

I don't think red to violet goes from complete doubt to absolute knowing.
Animals in 2D don't have a veil, and they know their connection with Creator. That is orange ray.
That is why they are embodiments of unconditional love.

Well you're entitled to your opinion, but animals still experience fear and pain, even not having the veil. They might have some awareness in life that death is not the end, some instinctual awareness that they will return to the group animal mind at death, but I think they experience plenty of doubt, pain, and fear. I hike a lot, and I see scared animals all the time, also ones that are diseased and clearly in pain. So, I guess I don't agree that they are in constant bliss or anything like that. It would be nice if they were, but I just don't think that is the case.

I thought animals in 2D conditions are similar to a 3D veil - that as much as they can cognize and think, they believe they are separate entities and that they not the Creator. Any Ra or L/L material on the subject would be helpful.

[anagogy]

I thought animals in 2D conditions are similar to a 3D veil - that as much as they can cognize and think, they believe they are separate entities and that they not the Creator. Any Ra or L/L material on the subject would be helpful.

This is what Ra said:

---

"[...] The incarnation pattern of the beginning third-density mind/body/spirit complex begins in darkness, for you may think or consider of your density as one of, as you may say, a sleep and a forgetting. This is the only plane of forgetting. It is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex.[...]"

---

They say third density is the only plane of forgetting. This would imply 2D is without the veil. However, I believe they are partially veiled, otherwise they wouldn't experience fear or pain, which it seems pretty obvious they do. I also believe pets are more veiled than non pets. The more pets are around us, the more they individuate. They start to vibrate like humans to a certain extent.

[Cainite]

Knowing takes away the wonder.. right? it's either that or the effects of aging.

About animals, I think they are very automatic. when they near graduation they become aware of self. up until then their attention had been focused on the environment.

[AnthroHeart]

I thought animals in 2D conditions are similar to a 3D veil - that as much as they can cognize and think, they believe they are separate entities and that they not the Creator. Any Ra or L/L material on the subject would be helpful.

This is what Ra said:

---

"[...] The incarnation pattern of the beginning third-density mind/body/spirit complex begins in darkness, for you may think or consider of your density as one of, as you may say, a sleep and a forgetting. This is the only plane of forgetting. It is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex.[...]"

---

They say third density is the only plane of forgetting. This would imply 2D is without the veil. However, I believe they are partially veiled, otherwise they wouldn't experience fear or pain, which it seems pretty obvious they do. I also believe pets are more veiled than non pets. The more pets are around us, the more they individuate. They start to vibrate like humans to a certain extent.

But if more veiled means more fear, then why do wild animals fear humans more than pets do? When the wild animals are less veiled according to you.

[David_1]

   You are held in the gentle arms of a Creator who loves you with an everlasting love!
   Is faith trusting what you cannot see?
   Is trust having faith in what you can see?

[anagogy]

But if more veiled means more fear, then why do wild animals fear humans more than pets do? When the wild animals are less veiled according to you.

Well, I don't think you can evaluate the level of fear an animal experiences so one dimensionally. For example, I have a cat, it is not afraid of me because it is conditioned to my presence, however, it is terrified of other people (especially children). It is also terrified of other animals, like other cats, dogs, and anything bigger than a squirrel. Sometimes, it is even skiddish to my presence. So I think they become "comfortable" due to repeated conditioning. The more time an animal spends with humans the more they vibrate like us (individuate). Humans have a variety of fears depending on their experiences and circumstances.

A veil doesn't necessarily mean fear, it just means there is confusion. For example, a bear probably doesn't experience that much fear, because they are high on the food chain. But if an animal didn't have the veil totally, they wouldn't experience pain or fear, ever. It would be like nothing to them, because they would feel a total connection to creator. Like I said, it would be really cool if that were the case, but I haven't seen convincing evidence of it. But I'm open to the belief that they might have residual awareness of existing prior to incarnation and the knowing that they will exist afterwards.

[flofrog]

Trees, plants feel fear too. But it doesn't prevent them I think to have unconditional love as Wolf said. I think they have both, constant love, but knowledge of fear perhaps because they have that link to Creator without veil of any kind which permits them to 'see' ?

[Diana]

All of this analyzing, such as in the forums here, is the difference between humans and animals, plants, and other entities. In other words, it's mind. Humans have evolved higher brain functioning, such as metacognition (awareness of one's ability to think). This is mind. 

But consciousness is different. Consciousness is more a state of connectivity, of just being, of knowingness—but these descriptors are only words that don't capture the infinite possibilities inherent in the now—the wave function. Humans, because they are compelled to identify things with the mind with metacognition in play, are constantly collapsing the wave (all possible outcomes) into the particle (one outcome) with the need to pinpoint meaning. This may be part of the expansion of awareness, but ultimately the mind has its limits. We need as a species to learn how to properly use mind in my opinion, and that's why we are practicing it now. It's like we have a new toy we don't want to share, give up, or put on the shelf while we tend to matters of consciousness.

Animals are always in the now. They are always aware of their environments. There is no separation. Whether or not they are veiled, whatever that actually is, is not the same as being connected. The difference lies in thinking about it with the mind.

Caveat: I don't mean to suggest there is anything wrong with analyzing. For my part, I love to analyze, but there is a point when analyzing becomes toxic because it has stalled movement, like stagnant waters.