Wisdom Run Amok
7 hours ago,
#91
RE: Wisdom Run Amok
(Yesterday, 12:25 PM)Diana Wrote:  Not all cultures besides contemporary American avoid direct confrontations of what they actually think, such as some Asian cultures. In China in business, there are elaborate protocols of "politeness" which must be observed, and you may find yourself fired from doing business with a company for things you may not even realize, such as inadvertently moving a feng shui bagua. In Japan, "politeness" is intrinsic to the culture, where circling around directness is commonly practiced. I personally think it's too much like passive-aggressive behavior. And I am speaking generally, not trying to fit everyone into a stereotypical box. 

Correct. However in neither culture politeness takes the form of appeasing falsities or doing insincere, manipulative conversation to tell someone that s/he is wrong/incorrect, without making him or her realize that you are telling that s/he is wrong. In Japan for example, you may change the subject, you may act as if the person never said something like that, or, you may go about telling him or her that she is wrong in an excessively polite way. But that never takes the form of telling someone that s/he is wrong while making it appear as if you are actually agreeing with his or her error.

In contemporary (progressive) american culture, this kind of behavior seems to gone out of hand.

understandable, in a sense, since as an immigrant culture, it has to find ways to try and avoid any confrontation while trying to create some cohesion and unity. But that definitely isnt a good way of doing that...

Quote:There is also an observable and general difference between the coastal areas of the U.S. I am from NY and New Yorkers have a reputation for being blunt, forthright, outspoken etc.; and juxtaposed to this is the west coast California attitude which sometimes is called "fake."

Yes there are many cultural variations in US. I found out that people from conservative areas were more blunt, as well as various subcultures differing in their attitudes. But for some reason what seems to reflect on internet general discourse from US seems to be what you call 'fake'.

Being considerate is important. However when it is brought to the level of appeasing falsities, it ends up in lunacies like flat earth taking hold. And that's only the start, by the way. One look at rather 'far-out' forums makes one realize that new types of lunacies are brewing.

Quote:I think I am more like you in this, Unity100, as far as I can tell from words on a screen, that I prefer honesty and forthrightness. But as I have said, I am still trying to balance this with kindness. What I have gleaned from my attempts is that it is really about detachment, not politeness or kindness. Because I don't think it's kind to lie—therein has been the essence of my conflict. But when I am detached from this world, or rather, it might be expressed as accepting, things seem to fall in place more easily with no conflict.

But this too has its challenges, as the more accepting/detached, the more the feeling of separation in a sense. And I suppose that's just another step along the way of integrating—really doing it, not just imagining—the bigger picture. Like A. Square in his cozy 2-dimensional world, even when shown the 3D world by A. Cube, he did not quite get it, but at the same time he now could never be the same—and so there would be some separation between him and the others in his world.

Yes, there has to be a certain amount of separation in every density, vibration, path - in every single aspect. Because otherwise it becomes unworkable. Everyone goes dysfunctional.

Can someone appease every other person's 'truth' on internet or in real life? How much false appeasement masquerading as 'kindness' does it take to appease the appeasement necessity of an entire culture?

How long can one twist words and sentiments to avoid conflict? Can a handful of grounded people do that for an entire culture?

After a certain point it becomes a matter of choice and a decision to walk one's own path. Because someone choosing to do so could never take two steps ahead while looking into the horizon. And would instead constantly look left, right, down below.

Some could say that such measured detachment which makes one able to walk his/her path is uncaring. Yet then again, wouldnt it be actual arrogance, even if total foolishness to think that someone can solve everyone's problems? Isnt it more realistic and correct to realize that in the infinite sea of existence, there will be infinite numbers of entities helping each other when they need, where they need, and things will just happen as they need be, even if the person looks into the horizon and walks forward...

If something comes up in one's way, then it means it was meant to be looked at. Then, it is wise to do so. Even if it is a conflict.

But if something is not fated to be in one's path, it becomes increasingly unwise to stray from the path. For paths are infinite, and there is no end to wandering...
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7 hours ago,
#92
RE: Wisdom Run Amok
(11 hours ago)rva_jeremy Wrote:  
Unity100 Wrote:Offense of 'telling someone that he is wrong' seems to exist almost only in contemporary american culture.

When it comes to a matter of deep spiritual significance and belief to a person, I don't think it's uniquely American to take offense at being told one is wrong. If you told a devout Muslim or Christian in your own country that he or she is wrong on a point involving their faith, you would likely cause much more than mere offense.

If the framework for standards in such a spiritual forum would be semitic religions, we would end up having no discussion at all.

This, is a forum pertaining mostly to Ra material. Its the most direct, clear, blunt spiritualist material there is. Its not Bartholomew, Ramtha, or Silver Birch.

Someone being attracted to such material and coming to discuss things in public with other students would need to be focused on the knowledge than personal biases and the insecurities those may bring.

For, to put it in street speak, "this sh*t is real". There is decent chance of destabilizing one's own by misunderstanding or misusing this material. Oppositely, there is great chance of making great strides by proper understanding and usage of the knowledge within the very same material...

Quote:It might be useful to consider that when you correct somebody on something that has deep meaning to them, you are asking more of them than simply to acknowledge the truth value of your point; you are asking them to change a belief with subjective significance, often something tied to their identity, and that is not always easy for anybody.

Incorrectly citing a material people are collectively studying is not a personal bias, jeremy. Lets get real. Its a mistake, however you look at it. Which was what was done by talking about how blue/wisdom was negatively polarized.

To make an analogy from mathematics, its like someone saying that 2+2 is 5. Even if it has great meaning to someone personally, it is just flat out wrong and there is no other way to put it.

Other things which are uncertain and left to interpretation, yeah, you have a point. Then again you wont find me or people of the same persuasion going around falsifying such stuff.
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6 hours ago,
#93
RE: Wisdom Run Amok
(7 hours ago)unity100 Wrote:  Some could say that such measured detachment which makes one able to walk his/her path is uncaring. Yet then again, wouldnt it be actual arrogance, even if total foolishness to think that someone can solve everyone's problems? Isnt it more realistic and correct to realize that in the infinite sea of existence, there will be infinite numbers of entities helping each other when they need, where they need, and things will just happen as they need be, even if the person looks into the horizon and walks forward...

If something comes up in one's way, then it means it was meant to be looked at. Then, it is wise to do so. Even if it is a conflict.

But if something is not fated to be in one's path, it becomes increasingly unwise to stray from the path. For paths are infinite, and there is no end to wandering...

Very wise words in my estimation.
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5 hours ago, (This post was last modified: 4 hours ago by Louisabell.)
#94
RE: Wisdom Run Amok
In the spirit of blunt communication I wanted to add that I think it's highly patronising to peregrine to reduce his arguments down to him simply not being able to handle being told he is wrong. All I see on this forum is spirited debate, more so than the average. It is clearly a mischaractisation of what was actually said in order to bring the argument into a space that is irrefutable.

I believe the complaint was more on the authority to which some here speak from about topics which have no authority. Interpretations on a text are subjective, there is no getting around that. And when there was a textual incongruency it was simply blown out of proportion -
(04-25-2018, 11:25 PM)unity100 Wrote:  As i said before, it is important since it affects entire perception of the world, including the society we are in. In the light of this knowledge, a lot of notable and celebrated personas in politics, entertainment, religion and business would suddenly evaluate to negative entities.

Or perhaps the more likely scenario, instead of needing to change one's whole morality framework, is that someone will simply adjust their concept of what the blue ray actually is - something that can't be measured as it doesn't even exist in the physical.

As a side note, I am very grateful that I live where there is a strong pay-out culture, it feels so freeing to be able to laugh about one's self.
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5 hours ago,
#95
RE: Wisdom Run Amok
(7 hours ago)unity100 Wrote:  
(11 hours ago)rva_jeremy Wrote:  When it comes to a matter of deep spiritual significance and belief to a person, I don't think it's uniquely American to take offense at being told one is wrong. If you told a devout Muslim or Christian in your own country that he or she is wrong on a point involving their faith, you would likely cause much more than mere offense.

If the framework for standards in such a spiritual forum would be semitic religions, we would end up having no discussion at all.

I'd be interested in what standards comprise this framework you're citing. This could be a part of the constant misunderstandings between you and others.

But regardless, my analogy is sound insofar as it goes, I'd argue. The point is not whether you think it's reasonable to take offense; I can personally understand where you're coming from. I appreciate your directness and your answers to my questions (you weren't correcting me since I wasn't making a claim; I was asking a question).

Instead, the point is that some people undoubtedly do take offense -- and this has been 100% par for the course on Bring4th since I first joined way, way back when it first launched. We're stuck with you, and you with us, as long as we all want to use the same board. Why not try to get along? In the same way that you might be more careful asking a theological question to a devout muslim, why not apply the same thinking here? And we'll try not to take it so personally?

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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5 hours ago,
#96
RE: Wisdom Run Amok
lol, what is more it there's taking offense, there's a big chance that the person leaves the conversation and then there's no more conversation, which is way too sad Big Grin
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