The Magick of Solomon: Lemegeton Secrets Revealed - The Truth about Angels and Demons

[Karl]

The Magick of Solomon: Lemegeton Secrets Revealed - The Truth about Angels and Demons! - FREE MOVIE
I found this video interesting. Does anyone here have experience with this material and wishes to perhaps expand on it? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTJBWMFRO6g&t=2458

[Nau7ik]

This material is mixed polarity, IMO. Be very careful with that grimoire. I remember reading an account of a couple who tried summoning from the Goetia. They did everything right but the demon didn’t “appear”. They thought nothing happened, so they stepped out of the circle and were immediately crushed by a powerful force.

[Karl]

Hah that's awfully sneaky. I take it they didn't end with the banishing / exorcism as they were supposed to then?

[Nau7ik]

They thought it didn’t work so they disregarded the magical protection and principles! I would suggest that one never exit a circle before the ritual and circle are closed. To disregard this is to put yourself in great danger.

I also remember hearing a story in relation to someone working with the Enochian system, which is extremely potent. I don’t think this guy knew what he was doing and his work on calling the angels directly caused his karma to start raining down. It was not good to say the least.

Anyway, I don’t want to discourage anyone from the magical path if that is what they are called to. I’ve just done a lot of reading and research and the missteps can be many for the solitary seeker. (Which is why Ra suggested that the positive seeker who takes up the magical path do it with a group.)

[Karl]

Yeah I've been reading and studying about different occult systems and stuff for years. I was exploring it more actively in my early teens and I got pretty messed up from it so I'm very hesitant to take it back up.

[AnthroHeart]

I'd rather draw magic as art than to perform it. Like glowing mandalas and stuff.

[Turtle]

So an angel and a demon walk into a bar. Both sit at the bar and both notice a regular person sitting in a far corner of the room, visibly sad and impressionable. The demon gets up to make a move on the bloke and the angel just watches. The guy gets startled upon sight of the demon, but then immediately afterward notices the angel sitting at the bar...and he consciously chooses to keep his gaze fixed upon the angel as the demon draws nearer. The angel smiles. He knows he is now allowed to intervene. He slays the s*** out of the demon. The end.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Wow, no wonder demons hate angels.  You get up to offer some poor bloke a beer and everyone thinks you're the monster when an angel is the one murdering you.

I have found that the goetia demons are often not going to bother with anyone trying to summon them.  Further I've found basically all of the people who 'conjure' such entities are themselves greatly delusional with megalomania.  It isn't hard to realize that such entities are not going to do anything more than what they will, and they don't seem to care for bothering in our affairs.

So when I read such fearful stories as people being 'crushed' I scoff because what would be the point? What is there to gain?  The story itself lends more credit to the being than the being itself.  It's a lie.  I might fear demons but I've been studying their nature long enough to know that our stories of them are almost always incorrect portrayals of their nature's.

I could worship Amaymon and Asmodeus, and know that they will never take notice in me because they're such powerful beings, to focus on me is like applying a microscope to examine a skin cell, why bother?

I could worship Lilith and know that no matter how much I do, I'll never get a succubus lover out of it.

I could even try to summon these beings and I know they would ignore me, or at the most take a little of my energy as a sampler then be done with me.

I think angels and demons are more...  Conscious than we give their nature credit.  Angels could be as destructive as demons.  Demons could be as helpful as angels.  While clear prejudices probably exist from past experiences, one bad apple doesn't mean the entire lot of them is bad.  The same can be said of a good apple.

Plus anyone attempting to be positive should not dabble in 'conjuration' as it's literally an attempt to curve and control another entity, it's wholly free will infringement.  No form of conjuration is positive just like no form of magic is done innocently.

I don't play with magic, or any of that.  I just study it, and have to say in relation to 'summoning demons' that there is an extreme amount if disinformation and fearful fictitious stories masquerading as fact.

Don't try to summon demons, why would you?
And don't try to summon angels, why would you do that?

Whatever happened to just making communications?  Why do people try to cage an entity to make it do stuff for them?

So rude lol..

[Nau7ik]

No I agree with you Apotheosis, don’t try and summons angels or demons. But there are real consequences and dangers when immature seekers try working grimoure magick. Most likely nothing will happen because how many people can actually perform the conjurations and rituals correctly? Magickal technique is a fine art.

But I do stand behind what I said. Obviously two people being crushed out of thin air is a rare case. Believe it or not, that’s your choice. The point being that’s it’s dangerous to mess around with demonic entities. How do you know that they are ignoring you? How do you know they’re not there invisible awaiting further initiatives from the Magician? Demons are very clever.

I am not saying to be fearful. I am saying to be wise and cautious. Do whatever you want though.

Remember what Ra said to Don when he asked about the 5D negative’s name. Ra was reluctant to give it because Ra knew that had the group received his name, that they would be karmically tied / metaphysically linked with that being. Rather, Ra suggested the positive approach, which is to offer love to this entity and love it as the Creator. Names are unimportant in the open heart which loves ALL. All is one.

[Infinite Unity]

Wow, no wonder demons hate angels.  You get up to offer some poor bloke a beer and everyone thinks you're the monster when an angel is the one murdering you.

I have found that the goetia demons are often not going to bother with anyone trying to summon them.  Further I've found basically all of the people who 'conjure' such entities are themselves greatly delusional with megalomania.  It isn't hard to realize that such entities are not going to do anything more than what they will, and they don't seem to care for bothering in our affairs.

So when I read such fearful stories as people being 'crushed' I scoff because what would be the point? What is there to gain?  The story itself lends more credit to the being than the being itself.  It's a lie.  I might fear demons but I've been studying their nature long enough to know that our stories of them are almost always incorrect portrayals of their nature's.

I could worship Amaymon and Asmodeus, and know that they will never take notice in me because they're such powerful beings, to focus on me is like applying a microscope to examine a skin cell, why bother?

I could worship Lilith and know that no matter how much I do, I'll never get a succubus lover out of it.

I could even try to summon these beings and I know they would ignore me, or at the most take a little of my energy as a sampler then be done with me.

I think angels and demons are more...  Conscious than we give their nature credit.  Angels could be as destructive as demons.  Demons could be as helpful as angels.  While clear prejudices probably exist from past experiences, one bad apple doesn't mean the entire lot of them is bad.  The same can be said of a good apple.

Plus anyone attempting to be positive should not dabble in 'conjuration' as it's literally an attempt to curve and control another entity, it's wholly free will infringement.  No form of conjuration is positive just like no form of magic is done innocently.

I don't play with magic, or any of that.  I just study it, and have to say in relation to 'summoning demons' that there is an extreme amount if disinformation and fearful fictitious stories masquerading as fact.

Don't try to summon demons, why would you?
And don't try to summon angels, why would you do that?

Whatever happened to just making communications?  Why do people try to cage an entity to make it do stuff for them?

So rude lol..

I disagree to an extent. I believe you can even draw the attention of the Logos in your incarnation. However I agree with you throughout a lot of your post.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

No I agree with you Apotheosis, don’t try and summons angels or demons. But there are real consequences and dangers when immature seekers try working grimoure magick. Most likely nothing will happen because how many people can actually perform the conjurations and rituals correctly? Magickal technique is a fine art.

But I do stand behind what I said. Obviously two people being crushed out of thin air is a rare case.  Believe it or not, that’s your choice. The point being that’s it’s dangerous to mess around with demonic entities. How do you know that they are ignoring you? How do you know they’re not there invisible awaiting further initiatives from the Magician? Demons are very clever.

I am not saying to be fearful. I am saying to be wise and cautious. Do whatever you want though.

Remember what Ra said to Don when he asked about the 5D negative’s name. Ra was reluctant to give it because Ra knew that had the group received his name, that they would be karmically tied / metaphysically linked with that being. Rather, Ra suggested the positive approach, which is to offer love to this entity and love it as the Creator. Names are unimportant in the open heart which loves ALL. All is one.

I won't deny there are dangers involved in forcing a being against their will to do what you want.  But I think that beyond that assault upon their free will, they have no reason to harm a human or even bother one, and in most cases they can resist and further, do the name's given of these entities properly link to them?  Is the demon Bune of the goetia really going to crush someone for their poor attempt at controlling it? Perhaps, but it's beyond our rules and reasonings, murder to us might be much more impractical to a demon when you consider metaphysically what their reality must be like.

I think your approach is somewhat based out of fear.  You see I'm certain there's no legitimate case of people being crushed or liked by demons.  I do not believe the YouTube videos of African children getting pulled away by invisible forces, I don't believe stories of demons murdering their commuters.

What I do believe is the mind's fantastic ability to create narratives from mere emotions of fear and circumstances of uncertainty and mystery.

No offense, but if two people were actually crushed by thin air while performing a satanic ritual, don't you think that would've caught a reporter's ear somewhere? That there'd be further investigation into their deaths?  The fear around the story is fictitious.  I so extremely highly doubt a good majority of demons would murder an actual incarnate human, the consequences would be great against them.  Their failure to control and manipulate would bomb their polarity, the average person isn't as Carla, killing them is not a service to any negative being or agenda, it's a disservice to the demon as much to the human's soul.  It's a failure of servicing the self, and in a way is a service to the other providing them catalyst to work with in a while new life.

In a similar way angels don't help people willynilly because to do so at their own desire is a service to the angel more so than the human.

I ask you this.  How do you know that demons aren't ignoring you?  How do you know they're invisible?  How can you surmise the behavior of these entities? A clever monster needn't wait in darkness to strike, for all you know the last time you dropped and lost your wallet or blew a tire out on a highway was the act of a demon.

Those fears are part of the misinformation narrative of an otherwise legitimate 'race' of entities.  Like calling every asian smart or black person athletic, only in this case we call every demon evil.

They're not all evil, and they're not all devious, and they're not all harmful.

And they definitely are not all that clever.  It is so very easy to be an invisible entity and to appear clever, when in reality they're doing research to appear clever, they paid attention, listened closely, connected the dots of what makes up a person before acting.

Further assuming some of those named entities are 4D+, some of them have access to reality in ways that grant them an extreme advanced knowledge of someone's interest in them.  They'll know a conjurer long before they've drawn a circle.

I find that pleas of caution come from fear, and that no matter how wise it may seem, being told to fear something is not the most wise advice to give, perhaps prudent and sincere, but wise?

It would seem more wise to advise anyone and everyone to avoid this kind of magical working, leave the containment of supernatural forces to those gifted in such, everyone else is merely being tricked into enslaving an entity for selfish reasons.

Let me ask you this.

The goetia demons can be commanded to take form (under hopefully the premise of it being a pleasant form), why has no one conjured one of these demons, made this commandx then taken a picture? What the human eyes can see, a phone camera should pick up on too.

Yet there is not ONE SINGULAR picture of any of those demons.  Not one shred of an attempt to do this.
You have HOURS OF VIDEO, of empty rooms and things going bump in the night, but a single picture of a demon said to be able to show itself?

We have hundreds of thousands of NDE reports, many of them do speak of a hell, some speak of demons, but never has one said that a demon took them away, or did anything more than scare the bejesus out of them.  Never has the hell one saw pulled them in, and only one NDE has spoken of someone being offered a 'Dark Immortality' by the king and queen of the underworld.

No haha, overall every story of demons is a narrative, a play of thoughtforms and emotional manipulation, meat to the skeleton that is the boogeyman, who will haunt you in your sleep, in your waking life, and ruin you.

The reality is demons are not like Paranormal Activity.  If you fear them, that's all that's needed to control you.

Don't fear the unknown, but do explore it carefully.

Don't listen to stories of invisible monsters.  I doubt even the 5D Entity was a 'demon', in fact I wonder often if that particular entity was another incarnation of Ra just doing their job all the same as was the Ra incarnation being interacted with and the Ra oversoul group (Ra in general) offering their information.

Perhaps Ra withheld the name, because the only one available to give was their own? How can we know? Why do we assume otherwise?

Sure, we can draw attention, but do you pay attention to every ant that wants you to bring it food? Or do you pay attention to every bird that picks at your crumbs?

I think you'd be more likely drawing attention from your higher self than from a demon.

Otherwise I should have several demons haunting my life just from when I was writing my book on demons, using full proper names and passages from the goetia, including full summoning incantations.  Even in mind it should work without the physical apertures.

Yet the most I ever had happen to me was after doing a chapter where the MC summoned up Asmodeus, I got sick and threw up out of nowhere while writing that chapter, once I stopped writing, I stopped getting sick.

The fear of a lack of protection would have me terrified that I'd be murdered if I believed that story of people being crushed.  My experience in reality is simply that they will inconvenience you to get you to leave them alone.

The 5D Entity was more dangerous than a demon by that standard.

I was once terrified of demons because of all of these stories of fear surrounding them.

It seems ever more apparent the further you discover their interactions, that they just want us to leave them alone, that we're like children pestering them.  Ants in their kitchen.  Birds in their garden.  How upsetting must it be when one of them then enslaves you and forces you to do their bidding but demand you respect their free will as they deny you yours?

Are the demons even really the bad guys here? Asmodeus got summoned up and chained then marched to Solomon's Temple, all he did was offer help and fall in love with a woman, the worst he did was knock over a tree he walked into.

Human's subsequently enslaved him, made him fall in love then deny him that love, then used him for his knowledge.

Lilith was an Egyptian Goddess of Sex brought down to a Mother of Demons by Judaism.  She was called the first wife of Adam who refused to be seen as anything except his equal and left him when he claimed to be her superior.  From there she was courting angels and demons and eventually became the mother figure of all demons.

The story surrounding the entities is not an accurate portrayal of such entities.  Their origins, their personalities.

There's so much to be discovered of our demon and angel brothers and sisters.  I've said often that demons scare me, but I'm more scared of their potential.

But to be fair, I fear humans in much the same way.

[Karl]

I think it's important to keep in mind the overall goal: If you're trying to abuse the spirit to gain material gain or pleasure you're a fool. You may get those things but if you haven't learned the lessons to attain that goal on your own you've prevented your own growth. If you're going to work with entities I think it's important that you focus on learning the means of accomplishing your goals instead of expecting a handout. Spirits can assist you but you'd be a fool to demand it. The Dark Gods are sacred as well. It's just not a path that agrees with some.

At least that's a little bit of how I see it. I won't try to expand on it too much since I think it would come across as irrelevant.

[Aion]

No I agree with you Apotheosis, don’t try and summons angels or demons. But there are real consequences and dangers when immature seekers try working grimoure magick. Most likely nothing will happen because how many people can actually perform the conjurations and rituals correctly? Magickal technique is a fine art.

But I do stand behind what I said. Obviously two people being crushed out of thin air is a rare case.  Believe it or not, that’s your choice. The point being that’s it’s dangerous to mess around with demonic entities. How do you know that they are ignoring you? How do you know they’re not there invisible awaiting further initiatives from the Magician? Demons are very clever.

I am not saying to be fearful. I am saying to be wise and cautious. Do whatever you want though.

Remember what Ra said to Don when he asked about the 5D negative’s name. Ra was reluctant to give it because Ra knew that had the group received his name, that they would be karmically tied / metaphysically linked with that being. Rather, Ra suggested the positive approach, which is to offer love to this entity and love it as the Creator. Names are unimportant in the open heart which loves ALL. All is one.

I won't deny there are dangers involved in forcing a being against their will to do what you want.  But I think that beyond that assault upon their free will, they have no reason to harm a human or even bother one, and in most cases they can resist and further, do the name's given of these entities properly link to them?  Is the demon Bune of the goetia really going to crush someone for their poor attempt at controlling it? Perhaps, but it's beyond our rules and reasonings, murder to us might be much more impractical to a demon when you consider metaphysically what their reality must be like.

I think your approach is somewhat based out of fear.  You see I'm certain there's no legitimate case of people being crushed or liked by demons.  I do not believe the YouTube videos of African children getting pulled away by invisible forces, I don't believe stories of demons murdering their commuters.

What I do believe is the mind's fantastic ability to create narratives from mere emotions of fear and circumstances of uncertainty and mystery.

No offense, but if two people were actually crushed by thin air while performing a satanic ritual, don't you think that would've caught a reporter's ear somewhere? That there'd be further investigation into their deaths?  The fear around the story is fictitious.  I so extremely highly doubt a good majority of demons would murder an actual incarnate human, the consequences would be great against them.  Their failure to control and manipulate would bomb their polarity, the average person isn't as Carla, killing them is not a service to any negative being or agenda, it's a disservice to the demon as much to the human's soul.  It's a failure of servicing the self, and in a way is a service to the other providing them catalyst to work with in a while new life.

In a similar way angels don't help people willynilly because to do so at their own desire is a service to the angel more so than the human.

I ask you this.  How do you know that demons aren't ignoring you?  How do you know they're invisible?  How can you surmise the behavior of these entities? A clever monster needn't wait in darkness to strike, for all you know the last time you dropped and lost your wallet or blew a tire out on a highway was the act of a demon.

Those fears are part of the misinformation narrative of an otherwise legitimate 'race' of entities.  Like calling every asian smart or black person athletic, only in this case we call every demon evil.

They're not all evil, and they're not all devious, and they're not all harmful.

And they definitely are not all that clever.  It is so very easy to be an invisible entity and to appear clever, when in reality they're doing research to appear clever, they paid attention, listened closely, connected the dots of what makes up a person before acting.

Further assuming some of those named entities are 4D+, some of them have access to reality in ways that grant them an extreme advanced knowledge of someone's interest in them.  They'll know a conjurer long before they've drawn a circle.

I find that pleas of caution come from fear, and that no matter how wise it may seem, being told to fear something is not the most wise advice to give, perhaps prudent and sincere, but wise?

It would seem more wise to advise anyone and everyone to avoid this kind of magical working, leave the containment of supernatural forces to those gifted in such, everyone else is merely being tricked into enslaving an entity for selfish reasons.

Let me ask you this.

The goetia demons can be commanded to take form (under hopefully the premise of it being a pleasant form), why has no one conjured one of these demons, made this commandx then taken a picture? What the human eyes can see, a phone camera should pick up on too.

Yet there is not ONE SINGULAR picture of any of those demons.  Not one shred of an attempt to do this.
You have HOURS OF VIDEO, of empty rooms and things going bump in the night, but a single picture of a demon said to be able to show itself?

We have hundreds of thousands of NDE reports, many of them do speak of a hell, some speak of demons, but never has one said that a demon took them away, or did anything more than scare the bejesus out of them.  Never has the hell one saw pulled them in, and only one NDE has spoken of someone being offered a 'Dark Immortality' by the king and queen of the underworld.

No haha, overall every story of demons is a narrative, a play of thoughtforms and emotional manipulation, meat to the skeleton that is the boogeyman, who will haunt you in your sleep, in your waking life, and ruin you.

The reality is demons are not like Paranormal Activity.  If you fear them, that's all that's needed to control you.

Don't fear the unknown, but do explore it carefully.

Don't listen to stories of invisible monsters.  I doubt even the 5D Entity was a 'demon', in fact I wonder often if that particular entity was another incarnation of Ra just doing their job all the same as was the Ra incarnation being interacted with and the Ra oversoul group (Ra in general) offering their information.

Perhaps Ra withheld the name, because the only one available to give was their own? How can we know? Why do we assume otherwise?

Sure, we can draw attention, but do you pay attention to every ant that wants you to bring it food? Or do you pay attention to every bird that picks at your crumbs?

I think you'd be more likely drawing attention from your higher self than from a demon.

Otherwise I should have several demons haunting my life just from when I was writing my book on demons, using full proper names and passages from the goetia, including full summoning incantations.  Even in mind it should work without the physical apertures.

Yet the most I ever had happen to me was after doing a chapter where the MC summoned up Asmodeus, I got sick and threw up out of nowhere while writing that chapter, once I stopped writing, I stopped getting sick.

The fear of a lack of protection would have me terrified that I'd be murdered if I believed that story of people being crushed.  My experience in reality is simply that they will inconvenience you to get you to leave them alone.

The 5D Entity was more dangerous than a demon by that standard.

I was once terrified of demons because of all of these stories of fear surrounding them.

It seems ever more apparent the further you discover their interactions, that they just want us to leave them alone, that we're like children pestering them.  Ants in their kitchen.  Birds in their garden.  How upsetting must it be when one of them then enslaves you and forces you to do their bidding but demand you respect their free will as they deny you yours?

Are the demons even really the bad guys here? Asmodeus got summoned up and chained then marched to Solomon's Temple, all he did was offer help and fall in love with a woman, the worst he did was knock over a tree he walked into.

Human's subsequently enslaved him, made him fall in love then deny him that love, then used him for his knowledge.

Lilith was an Egyptian Goddess of Sex brought down to a Mother of Demons by Judaism.  She was called the first wife of Adam who refused to be seen as anything except his equal and left him when he claimed to be her superior.  From there she was courting angels and demons and eventually became the mother figure of all demons.

The story surrounding the entities is not an accurate portrayal of such entities.  Their origins, their personalities.

There's so much to be discovered of our demon and angel brothers and sisters.  I've said often that demons scare me, but I'm more scared of their potential.

But to be fair, I fear humans in much the same way.

Ahahaha My friend, I think you are somewhat naive. There are very good reasons that occultists generally shun the public eye and those who take the stage yield no proofs. Perhaps I have simply met more such individuals than you have but I assure you it isn't as hard as it seems to maintain secrecy. I will not say more on the matter. Genuine evocation is an uncommon occurence and the techniques for it are even harder to obtain. You are correct that the story of angels and demons is much more complex than a 'good vs evil' narrative and there are even occasions where a 'white magician' might invoke or evoke a demon for some purpose. It is also a matter of cultural perspective. As an example, from the Jewish perspective the Egyptian gods are demons, think about that. Its all about perspective. As to the reality of otherworldly forces, I have nothing I am willing to share and so leave you to your thoughts.

Let me ask you, if a lone summoner or small group evokes in a hidden location and they all are driven mad or killed, who takes the selfies with the demon?

Either way, I agree that if you dont know what you're doing then you probably shouldn't touch it.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Your question is a very unusual one in it's progression of events.  For what reason would one try to take a selfie after driving an entity to drive them mad?

Makes no sense and serves to disservice my point being that secrecy is an excuse to hide the fact a majority of those practicing this stuff are simply delusional and don't want the prying eye of other's judgment to interfere with their deluded perspective of reality.

I would similarly call you naive for believing in half of these people just as you believe yourself.

The only way I will ever believe that a person has managed a true real summoning of a demon is if they managed to take a picture of it after they so boldly claim in the grimoire that the demon can take form and appear to the naked eye.
Not talking about a selfie, although knowing the narcissistic behaviors of those deluding themselves with megalomania I could see someone misperceiving their request of 'get a picture of the demon and you'll never be questioned' with 'take a selfie of yourself with a demon'.

Of course it's not hard to maintain secrecy, especially about something that isn't true or real in a majority of the circumstances surrounding that which is being kept secret.

It's not hard.  A legit picture would still be denied as proof, it could be photoshopped, it could be some trickery.  Not providing that which you should be able to is the perfect example of a lie being perpetuated.

'Oh hey guy, I summoned this demon called Bune, he looked kind of like a dragon, I got him to take form then asked for his consent to photograph him, here take a look'
And if he presented a picture of a demon standing inside his room, I'd be satisfied.

Instead I get 'Oh hey guy, I summoned this demon, it's all secretive and stuff but I promise it's legit.'

I even challenged some people to prove their claim and at least attempt to do so.  I was met with excuses and rationalizations such as 'Oh it wouldn't work, demons can't be photographed' or 'I don't think they'd let me' or 'That's not how it works'.

How it works is you cage an entity, make it do what you say, so there's no excuse why you couldn't ask it to take pleasant form and then photograph it then go on with the task at hand.
No reason at all why not.

So, I argue it, most people who speak of doing this stuff, they are full of it.  They're full of themselves, and they're not honest with themselves or others.  Their perspective reality is built off of lies that they delude themselves to believe in then suck others in with the cryptic mysterious nature that they claim to be exploring when all they're doing us chanting in a room, alone, and believing they're important enough to not be resisted against by an entity they know nothing about except that they can conjure it up into a cage and make it do what they want as if some kind of pet dog being told to fetch.

I would say just don't mess with those kinds of things, no one has any reason to and considering how little has been gained over centuries of these practices you'd think someone by now would hold up a red flag and say 'hey, I think this is bullshit, you  brag about it despite keeping it a secret and you've nothing to show for it, not even another's misfortune, and I see you have the means to provide proof, evidence of your claims, but consistently choose not to.  Yeah, you're not legit.  I believe in the demons you speak of summoning, but I don't believe in you summoning them.  Prove me wrong otherwise stfu because you're basically crying wolf now.  If you really wanted attention or want to come off interesting, learn about the demons and mythos involving them instead of playing make believe with imaginary friends in an incomplete ritual you read in some tome.'

Or simply out, occams razor.  The most likely conclusion is these are lonely people trying to give some meaning to their otherwise insignificant life.

If you are so powerful to work with demons and angels, you probably don't need to gather evidence, it would be surrounding you in circumstantial coincidence, you'd be able to point out such.

But no one does.  Probably because no one legitimately does this stuff to such a degree, and those that do, aren't so lowly with ego that they need to be praised or liked or even known for doing such stuff.  They don't need to make excuses.

Like I believe more in someone praying to an angel and getting a response than someone conjuring a demon and making pacts or deals or commands of it.

There's an obscured truth here, and it's mostly obscured by those who practice these things, probably because they know it's often times not real but very...Metaphysical...

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

It's funny, I just heard Alice Cooper on the radio say that demons will pull you into the occult, and that the occult is a very unsafe place to be.

The synchronicity haha

[loostudent]

Remember what Ra said to Don when he asked about the 5D negative’s name. Ra was reluctant to give it because Ra knew that had the group received his name, that they would be karmically tied / metaphysically linked with that being.

Isn't somewhere in LOO Book V written that Don tryed to make a deal with 5d negative entity - to leave Carla and torture him instead? That might caused his mental state and death.

[Nau7ik]

Remember what Ra said to Don when he asked about the 5D negative’s name. Ra was reluctant to give it because Ra knew that had the group received his name, that they would be karmically tied / metaphysically linked with that being.

Isn't somewhere in LOO Book V written that Don tryed to make a deal with 5d negative entity - to leave Carla and torture him instead? That might caused his mental state and death.

Don wanted to take the brunt of the greeting for Carla. I think that desire did play a part in his death, unfortunately... It was the unhappy energetic exchange Carla and Don had that tore down the reinforced concrete of his heart. That’s how Carla described it. So you can imagine the Mental state of one who had a reinforced concrete protected heart whose heart suddenly opens in full. (See “Tilting at Windmills”.)

[Nau7ik]

To clarify things, my story was about the disregarding of magical protection. It’s not fear mongering about summoning demons. You will see warnings in any book discussing ritual evocation. Is that fear? No it’s not. I am not fearful, and I don’t appreciate you projecting that onto me. What am I afraid of? Summoning angels and demons? No, I don’t have the desire to do so. If you want to see what happens when you perform an elaborate and complicated ritual and evocation from the Goatia (go look at it in the book and you will see), and then in the middle of it decide “this is BS” and walk out of the circle and leave the ritual space, then go ahead and share the results. Is it fearful to say that you will put yourself in great danger if you do that? No, i don’t think so. I don’t know for certain what will happen, but I do know that magicians create circles of protection for a reason. In that specific case, the couple completely abdonded the working and left the circle. If anything it’s a story to warn those about disregarding the magical protection. Take it literally or not.

Imagine if Don and Jim, in the middle of a session, didn’t like what Ra said and just up and left, picked up Carla, and left the room without closing the working? Well, Carla would have died certainly and Don and Jim would’ve put themselves in the hands of their 5D negative friend.

Ra said that as one stands close to the light that one attracts attention from both positive and negative polarities. If that entity couldn’t take that light for himself, he sought to put it out. That means killing the seeker.

The knowledge and experiences of magicians through the ages is not common knowledge to the public. You will never see a newspaper speaking about summoning going insane or dying in ritual magick. Magicians are not concerned with taking pictures to prove demons and angels exist. Physical evocation is extremely difficult and rare. From what I’ve read, the closest to physical evocation is using a black mirror.

Anyway, I would love to hear what you have to share Aion. Only if you want to though.

[Aion]

Your question is a very unusual one in it's progression of events.  For what reason would one try to take a selfie after driving an entity to drive them mad?

Makes no sense and serves to disservice my point being that secrecy is an excuse to hide the fact a majority of those practicing this stuff are simply delusional and don't want the prying eye of other's judgment to interfere with their deluded perspective of reality.

I would similarly call you naive for believing in half of these people just as you believe yourself.

The only way I will ever believe that a person has managed a true real summoning of a demon is if they managed to take a picture of it after they so boldly claim in the grimoire that the demon can take form and appear to the naked eye.
Not talking about a selfie, although knowing the narcissistic behaviors of those deluding themselves with megalomania I could see someone misperceiving their request of 'get a picture of the demon and you'll never be questioned' with 'take a selfie of yourself with a demon'.

Of course it's not hard to maintain secrecy, especially about something that isn't true or real in a majority of the circumstances surrounding that which is being kept secret.

It's not hard.  A legit picture would still be denied as proof, it could be photoshopped, it could be some trickery.  Not providing that which you should be able to is the perfect example of a lie being perpetuated.

'Oh hey guy, I summoned this demon called Bune, he looked kind of like a dragon, I got him to take form then asked for his consent to photograph him, here take a look'
And if he presented a picture of a demon standing inside his room, I'd be satisfied.

Instead I get 'Oh hey guy, I summoned this demon, it's all secretive and stuff but I promise it's legit.'

I even challenged some people to prove their claim and at least attempt to do so.  I was met with excuses and rationalizations such as 'Oh it wouldn't work, demons can't be photographed' or 'I don't think they'd let me' or 'That's not how it works'.

How it works is you cage an entity, make it do what you say, so there's no excuse why you couldn't ask it to take pleasant form and then photograph it then go on with the task at hand.
No reason at all why not.

So, I argue it, most people who speak of doing this stuff, they are full of it.  They're full of themselves, and they're not honest with themselves or others.  Their perspective reality is built off of lies that they delude themselves to believe in then suck others in with the cryptic mysterious nature that they claim to be exploring when all they're doing us chanting in a room, alone, and believing they're important enough to not be resisted against by an entity they know nothing about except that they can conjure it up into a cage and make it do what they want as if some kind of pet dog being told to fetch.

I would say just don't mess with those kinds of things, no one has any reason to and considering how little has been gained over centuries of these practices you'd think someone by now would hold up a red flag and say 'hey, I think this is bullshit, you  brag about it despite keeping it a secret and you've nothing to show for it, not even another's misfortune, and I see you have the means to provide proof, evidence of your claims, but consistently choose not to.  Yeah, you're not legit.  I believe in the demons you speak of summoning, but I don't believe in you summoning them.  Prove me wrong otherwise stfu because you're basically crying wolf now.  If you really wanted attention or want to come off interesting, learn about the demons and mythos involving them instead of playing make believe with imaginary friends in an incomplete ritual you read in some tome.'

Or simply out, occams razor.  The most likely conclusion is these are lonely people trying to give some meaning to their otherwise insignificant life.

If you are so powerful to work with demons and angels, you probably don't need to gather evidence, it would be surrounding you in circumstantial coincidence, you'd be able to point out such.

But no one does.  Probably because no one legitimately does this stuff to such a degree, and those that do, aren't so lowly with ego that they need to be praised or liked or even known for doing such stuff.  They don't need to make excuses.

Like I believe more in someone praying to an angel and getting a response than someone conjuring a demon and making pacts or deals or commands of it.

There's an obscured truth here, and it's mostly obscured by those who practice these things, probably because they know it's often times not real but very...Metaphysical...

In bold, there you have it. I said such an occurence is uncommon, I do not "believe half the people" as you say. Nobody owes you or anybody proof. The throes of skepticism are enjoyed for keeping away prying eyes. Continue to disbelieve, its good, you'll keep out of it that way.

I think you missed the brunt of my question, that being that in a situation of being overpowered you might not have a chance to snap a picture. Second, the fact is that genuine evocation is very, very rare and most of the time forms are perceived it is in the mind's eye. Also a physical manifestation of Light doesn't necessarily assume a materialization in to a chemical body, so an appearance wouldn't necessarily mean ability to physically interact.

Do you have any practice in this regard or are these the thoughts of an armchair occultist? You speak about "how it works" but do you really have any idea?

I do not care at all in the end one way or the other, I just find the statements amusing. I am sure you have done plenty of your own work and I do not mean to disregard that, I just find it interesting how broadly you speak.

[Aion]

To clarify things, my story was about the disregarding of magical protection. It’s not fear mongering about summoning demons. You will see warnings in any book discussing ritual evocation. Is that fear? No it’s not. I am not fearful, and I don’t appreciate you projecting that onto me. What am I afraid of? Summoning angels and demons? No, I don’t have the desire to do so. If you want to see what happens when you perform an elaborate and complicated ritual and evocation from the Goatia (go look at it in the book and you will see), and then in the middle of it decide “this is BS” and walk out of the circle and leave the ritual space, then go ahead and share the results. Is it fearful to say that you will put yourself in great danger if you do that? No, i don’t think so. I don’t know for certain what will happen, but I do know that magicians create circles of protection for a reason. In that specific case, the couple completely abdonded the working and left the circle. If anything it’s a story to warn those about disregarding the magical protection. Take it literally or not.

Imagine if Don and Jim, in the middle of a session, didn’t like what Ra said and just up and left, picked up Carla, and left the room without closing the working? Well, Carla would have died certainly and Don and Jim would’ve put themselves in the hands of their 5D negative friend.

Ra said that as one stands close to the light that one attracts attention from both positive and negative polarities. If that entity couldn’t take that light for himself, he sought to put it out. That means killing the seeker.

The knowledge and experiences of magicians through the ages is not common knowledge to the public. You will never see a newspaper speaking about summoning going insane or dying in ritual magick. Magicians are not concerned with taking pictures to prove demons and angels exist. Physical evocation is extremely difficult and rare. From what I’ve read, the closest to physical evocation is using a black mirror.

Anyway, I would love to hear what you have to share Aion. Only if you want to though.

Skepticism is the standard mode of thought nowadays. Even if a genuine case was encountered do you really think it would feature in the mainstream without being turned in to a skeptical explanation? Even if it was accepted as unusual some mundane explanation would be given, it would be treated as a murder or suicide if someone died. Remember that the vast majority believe magic is only real in movies and on the stage. As you say, people who spend their time brooding on trying to provide 'proof' usually fall off the path because it is a distraction away from the real work.

Using a black mirror isn't all that likely to be an evocation. People think that anytime you "see" something that its been evoked but external reality can reflect internal reality so I think that most of the time when people see things it is this crossing over of the unmanifest self. Proper evocation (and let me be clear that evocation isn't just for demons) takes immense energy, focus and a good understanding of the nature of metaphysical construction.

[Turtle]

Wow, no wonder demons hate angels.  You get up to offer some poor bloke a beer and everyone thinks you're the monster when an angel is the one murdering you.

Meh, it was a joke to suggest the importance of a person needing to choose whether to empower a demon or an angel by the focus of their attention.

Felt like throwing this into the thread as well...

angel



[eyn-juh l] 
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Spell Syllables[/font]

• Examples
  
• Word Origin
  

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
one of a class of spiritual beings; a celestial attendant of God. Inmedieval angelology, angels constituted the lowest of the ninecelestial orders (seraphim, cherubim, thrones, dominations ordominions, virtues, powers, principalities or princedoms, archangels,and angels).
2.
a conventional representation of such a being, in human form, withwings, usually in white robes.
3.
a messenger, especially of God.
4.
a person who performs a mission of God or acts as if sent by God:
an angel of mercy.
5.
a person having qualities generally attributed to an angel, as beauty,purity, or kindliness.
6.
a person whose actions and thoughts are consistently virtuous.
7.
an attendant or guardian spirit.


demon



[dee-muh n] 
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Spell Syllables[/font]

• Examples
  
• Word Origin
  

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
an evil spirit; devil or fiend.
2.
an evil passion or influence.
3.
a person considered extremely wicked, evil, or cruel.
4.
a person with great energy, drive, etc.:
He's a demon for work.
5.
a person, especially a child, who is very mischievous:
His younger son is a real little demon.
6.
daemon.
7.
Australian Slang. a policeman, especially a detective.
adjective
8.
of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or noting a demon.
9.
possessed or controlled by a demon.

Let the posts continue...lol

[Karl]

Why would you even want to do a physical evocation when you could get what you want with something way easier? That's like building an apartment complex because you want a 1 bedroom apartment to live in.

[Nau7ik]

To clarify things, my story was about the disregarding of magical protection. It’s not fear mongering about summoning demons. You will see warnings in any book discussing ritual evocation. Is that fear? No it’s not. I am not fearful, and I don’t appreciate you projecting that onto me. What am I afraid of? Summoning angels and demons? No, I don’t have the desire to do so. If you want to see what happens when you perform an elaborate and complicated ritual and evocation from the Goatia (go look at it in the book and you will see), and then in the middle of it decide “this is BS” and walk out of the circle and leave the ritual space, then go ahead and share the results. Is it fearful to say that you will put yourself in great danger if you do that? No, i don’t think so. I don’t know for certain what will happen, but I do know that magicians create circles of protection for a reason. In that specific case, the couple completely abdonded the working and left the circle. If anything it’s a story to warn those about disregarding the magical protection. Take it literally or not.

Imagine if Don and Jim, in the middle of a session, didn’t like what Ra said and just up and left, picked up Carla, and left the room without closing the working? Well, Carla would have died certainly and Don and Jim would’ve put themselves in the hands of their 5D negative friend.

Ra said that as one stands close to the light that one attracts attention from both positive and negative polarities. If that entity couldn’t take that light for himself, he sought to put it out. That means killing the seeker.

The knowledge and experiences of magicians through the ages is not common knowledge to the public. You will never see a newspaper speaking about summoning going insane or dying in ritual magick. Magicians are not concerned with taking pictures to prove demons and angels exist. Physical evocation is extremely difficult and rare. From what I’ve read, the closest to physical evocation is using a black mirror.

Anyway, I would love to hear what you have to share Aion. Only if you want to though.

Skepticism is the standard mode of thought nowadays. Even if a genuine case was encountered do you really think it would feature in the mainstream without being turned in to a skeptical explanation? Even if it was accepted as unusual some mundane explanation would be given, it would be treated as a murder or suicide if someone died. Remember that the vast majority believe magic is only real in movies and on the stage. As you say, people who spend their time brooding on trying to provide 'proof' usually fall off the path because it is a distraction away from the real work.

Using a black mirror isn't all that likely to be an evocation. People think that anytime you "see" something that its been evoked but external reality can reflect internal reality so I think that most of the time when people see things it is this crossing over of the unmanifest self. Proper evocation (and let me be clear that evocation isn't just for demons) takes immense energy, focus and a good understanding of the nature of metaphysical construction.

That totally makes sense! Thank you. I appreciate what you have to say on this subject. I’ve only done studying and research within the occult, not much practice.

I got into it when I was 17. I was following the course laid out in that very popular book on practical ceremonial magick... Modern Magick, I believe. I got as far as crafting a Golden Dawn style earth pentacle (with hindsight I most likely was not ready to begin crafting tools yet.) I did the LBRP daily for 2 months and my inner eye was opening up. I had a few experiences with lower astrals I believe they were. Nothing malicious or harmful. Just weird sounds Or a movement at the corner of my eyes.

Honestly I was not ready at that time. I remembered reading in a book that one should wait until he’s around 25 to make sure that this is the path that he wishes to take (and I kind of scoffed at that lol). Because around 25 we have grown up and settled down with who we are and what we desire, at least somewhat. For me, that was definitely the case. I am 26 years old now and I feel like a much more centered, balanced, and focused person. Back then I didn’t know what I was doing, or why I was seeking. (I asked myself why I was seeking and I couldn’t answer it.) I was not all clear on my polarity.

My life path gave my catalyst to become clear on those things since that time. And I am oh so grateful to be where I am now having found the Law of One, which has truly helped me. The LOO, out of everything I had studied and worked with, has produced results.
Which makes me remember Ra saying, “Begin and end in the Creator, not technique.”

[Glow]

Wow, no wonder demons hate angels.  You get up to offer some poor bloke a beer and everyone thinks you're the monster when an angel is the one murdering you.

Meh, it was a joke to suggest the importance of a person needing to choose whether to empower a demon or an angel by the focus of their attention.

Some of us saw your intent. I actually print screened it, I thought it was so great. I had interpreted it as the person metaphorically slaying the demon, because by staying focused on the light the demon has no power.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

It's so sad how we judge others and praise their loss.

Monsters have feelings too.

Most people think they're doing something called magic, but most are just full of themselves.  Others are desperately trying to give significance to themselves.

No one knows how this works.  No one seems to care about what they're messing with when it comes to magic either.

Most 'practitioners' of magic are just intelligent idiots who've tricked themselves.

For the few true psychics out there, I find it a great insult to them when people perpetuate the falsity of the extreme rarity of instances where actual interaction with supernatural beings take place.  I mean real interaction, not just being influenced by but clearly effected and effecting.

So, I don't think really anyone here is an active worker in magic, I think there's some potential but overall if you call armchair spirituality an lack of an appropriate path, I don't think you've grasped the nature of magic.

I haven't myself but I've experienced enough of it in life to not be so quickly thrilled with the trickery of another positing illusions as realities or piggybacking off of a legitimate thing with illegitimate intentions.

You should do more than focus on the light in the face of darkness.  You should be able to face that darkness as if it were also the light you fearfully run towards for protection.

Enlightenment doesn't come from angelic shapes and illuminated figures, it comes from making the darkness conscious.

We seldom realize how interconnected evil and good are.

3, 6, 9.
Satan is made by God
Yin and Yang
All is One, Lovers are monsters, monsters are lovers.
Demons were once angels
Angels can become demons
The darkness often is the tool of light when fighting darkness.
The adage goes, be careful not to become that which you seek to destroy.

Condemning an entire race to darkness makes shown one's irrational fear of that race.  If you fear demons, you're already vulnerable.  Try not to see them all as 5D murderous invisible entities.

And what's more there is no reason to believe Carla would've been murdered by the 5D Entity if they just walked out of a channeling, in fact i bet the instant they put down the Ra channeling they would've been fine.  Instead they fought it, challenged its demand to cease contact basically.

Even then it was refined to attempting to unravel already present problems.  There was at NO POINT any inference that the 5D Entity could do anything more than use what was already available to Carla to experience including kidney failure.  It could not physically assault her, it could not directly harm her, and it's arsenal of assault was reduced to what Carla had available to experience through herself.  It effectively was using Carla's own programmed bits to effect her.  Her weariness, her sensitivity, her preprogrammed pain catalysts, preprogrammed physiological phenomenon including allergies.

There's so much presumed fear.  I've said my point.

Don't Fear the Reaper.  If you ever meet a demon, treat it with utmost respect and leave it alone.  Love it for it's existence as you would your own, then get away from it.

There's a reason we have such limited contact with their species...  We're not ready for that yet.

[Glow]

Hey CA
Another take is we all make magic nonstop through the day.
I'm not at all interested in formulaic magic but even writing what you did was a form of energetic magic.
It was strong too.
Though I'm not even involved I could feel the energy.

Just so you are aware.

Also I'm sure we all know the demons and us are one.... we are on the Law of One website.
I doubt there were many here actually wanting a demon to suffer so worry not.
You sound kind of somber is something bothering you?

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Well that's more my understanding is some of us are initiated, we're actively producing the means by which magic can be imbued and made manifest.

Yet I mostly see people waving their arms pronouncing names and speaking of fearful stuffs.

So spooky.

It's funny you ask if something is bothering me.  It's like lately I've noticed so many people talking about being influenced externally, yet they all don't realize that it's all coming from their self.  Demons are not a valid area to shift responsibility upon.  We must accept that EVERYTHING we do is our responsibility even if influenced by a demon.

A spirit guide pointing my intuition is using my perceptions to direct me.  I am still directed by myself, it is still my responsibility, even though a spirit guide might be the origin cause.  A demon might put dark thoughts into my mind, they are still produced by my mind and thus my responsibility.

I just want to be able to explain myself clearly.  I still suck at it lol..

...Naw, I actually did lose a relative recently that has had me rather emotionally flustered and has gone into other areas of contemplation of emotion such as fear.  Overall I'm just tense and coming off all know it all and confrontational.

I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm just adamant that no one else does either along these areas of the occult.

[Turtle]

Wow, no wonder demons hate angels.  You get up to offer some poor bloke a beer and everyone thinks you're the monster when an angel is the one murdering you.

Meh, it was a joke to suggest the importance of a person needing to choose whether to empower a demon or an angel by the focus of their attention.

Some of us saw your intent. I actually print screened it, I thought it was so great. I had interpreted it as the person metaphorically slaying the demon, because by staying focused on the light the demon has no power.

[Glow]

Well that's more my understanding is some of us are initiated, we're actively producing the means by which magic can be imbued and made manifest.

Yet I mostly see people waving their arms pronouncing names and speaking of fearful stuffs.

So spooky.

It's funny you ask if something is bothering me.  It's like lately I've noticed so many people talking about being influenced externally, yet they all don't realize that it's all coming from their self.  Demons are not a valid area to shift responsibility upon.  We must accept that EVERYTHING we do is our responsibility even if influenced by a demon.

A spirit guide pointing my intuition is using my perceptions to direct me.  I am still directed by myself, it is still my responsibility, even though a spirit guide might be the origin cause.  A demon might put dark thoughts into my mind, they are still produced by my mind and thus my responsibility.

I just want to be able to explain myself clearly.  I still suck at it lol..

...Naw, I actually did lose a relative recently that has had me rather emotionally flustered and has gone into other areas of contemplation of emotion such as fear.  Overall I'm just tense and coming off all know it all and confrontational.

I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm just adamant that no one else does either along these areas of the occult.

It's all good CA. ((((((((((((Huge hug)))))))))))) I hope you could feel that.
Sorry for your loss. ((((((((((((Another huge hug)))))))))))))

I hope that tension and fear is eased very soon.
You aren't alone.

[Aion]

Well that's more my understanding is some of us are initiated, we're actively producing the means by which magic can be imbued and made manifest.

Yet I mostly see people waving their arms pronouncing names and speaking of fearful stuffs.

So spooky.

It's funny you ask if something is bothering me.  It's like lately I've noticed so many people talking about being influenced externally, yet they all don't realize that it's all coming from their self.  Demons are not a valid area to shift responsibility upon.  We must accept that EVERYTHING we do is our responsibility even if influenced by a demon.

A spirit guide pointing my intuition is using my perceptions to direct me.  I am still directed by myself, it is still my responsibility, even though a spirit guide might be the origin cause.  A demon might put dark thoughts into my mind, they are still produced by my mind and thus my responsibility.

I just want to be able to explain myself clearly.  I still suck at it lol..

...Naw, I actually did lose a relative recently that has had me rather emotionally flustered and has gone into other areas of contemplation of emotion such as fear.  Overall I'm just tense and coming off all know it all and confrontational.

I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm just adamant that no one else does either along these areas of the occult.

There is no discussion that can take place fruitfully when there is such a difference of views. Inevitably, each will determine that the other simply doesn't see what they themselves see. So in that regard, relax a bit man, why are you so worried about what other people believe? I only know my experience, I cannot always account for its difference from that of others. However, I do think that some things can only be experienced first hand and cannot be deduced through mere intellectual meditation. Every path can lead to the same ultimate realization, but the manner of journey is very different for anyone. The reason I don't harbour absolute skepticism towards any particular experience is because frankly it's a moot point, it doesn't matter whether or not I believe, what matters is how someone is affected by their experiences and the experiences they are having. We exist inside a giant cosmic mind, so yes, everything is ultimately a construction of inner-personal relationships but that means that anybody who is part of that mind can construct something in that mind and it can be experienced as 'real'. The argument of the nature of 'real' is one philosophers have battered around for ages.

In truth, I think there is neither self nor otherself, there is a continuum of identity in which we temporarily bathe. We are empty except for the imaginations we grow within ourselves as an imagination of ourselves. The very nature of the discussion of 'real existence' is misleading in my eyes because perception itself is an existential part of reality, and so I think there is an overt dependence on materialistic views which brings everybody together to butt heads. I suppose I take the opposite stance from you, in that I think it's more that everyone knows a little bit about what's going on and we're all sharing our pieces to grow that understanding collectively. I've certainly made no claims to knowing everything, but I always find amusement in any sort of hard absolute stance. I just truly believe everything is possible.

I'm sorry for your loss, I hope that you are able to grieve well and feel deeply so that you may continue on in strength.