You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
08-11-2017, 10:11 PM,
#1
You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
It is almost as if the mind's attempt to understand is a complete charade, while the consciousness calmly and naturally progresses without thought. The mind is the only thing that I perceive as 'learning,' though. The mind learns things, but they are useless.

The consciousness 'learns,' right? It has to, or evolution would not occur? But how does a consciousness learn without thinking? The consciousness must evolve independent of the mind?

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08-11-2017, 10:16 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-11-2017, 10:17 PM by IndigoGeminiWolf.)
#2
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
This is a fascinating topic.

Consciousness goes beyond our perceptions. 99.9+% of who we are is subconscious.

The mind is under a veil as is the body.

I think to experience pure awareness, we have to reach a state of no-self.

I see consciousness as an intelligent field that is infinite in it's potential.

Consciousness becomes aware of something before we even consciously perceive it, or think about it.

I think Consciousness is as fundamental as awareness. Pure awareness is like one step down from Infinity.

To go beyond mind is to go beyond ego. One needs to experience ego death in order to experience that.

There is an anthro somewhere who needs me and I need them.
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08-11-2017, 11:03 PM,
#3
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
To my understanding/experience, evolution occurs through changes in habitual patterns of emotional states. Consciousness itself does not evolve, because consciousness is the Eye of the Creator, witnessing experience as it occurs. Mind/thoughts are catalyst - when we think that we're reacting to external circumstances, we're actually reacting to our interpretation and thoughts about the external circumstances.

Emotions, on the other hand, are distortions of Love, the primordial energy. To the extent that our energy centers/chakras are configured to respond to incoming catalyst by distorting inflowing energy away from Love, to that extent we have more work to do in evolving.

Conversely, to the extent that we are able to remain unconditionally loving and allow the Creator's energy to pass through our system undistorted, we are "evolved".

Therefore all evolution occurs in illusion, since the observing consciousness is already perfect.

The mechanism by which we allow energy to pass through us undistorted away from Love, regardless of catalyst, is the loving acceptance Ra speaks about.
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08-12-2017, 01:17 AM,
#4
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
(08-11-2017, 11:03 PM)Stranger Wrote:  To my understanding/experience, evolution occurs through changes in habitual patterns of emotional states.  Consciousness itself does not evolve, because consciousness is the Eye of the Creator, witnessing experience as it occurs.  Mind/thoughts are catalyst - when we think that we're reacting to external circumstances, we're actually reacting to our interpretation and thoughts about the external circumstances.  

Emotions, on the other hand, are distortions of Love, the primordial energy.  To the extent that our energy centers/chakras are configured to respond to incoming catalyst by distorting inflowing energy away from Love, to that extent we have more work to do in evolving.

Conversely, to the extent that we are able to remain unconditionally loving and allow the Creator's energy to pass through our system undistorted, we are "evolved".

Therefore all evolution occurs in illusion, since the observing consciousness is already perfect.

Okay, but then what is evolving? If it is not consciousness, and it is not the mind.

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08-12-2017, 03:46 AM,
#5
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
Evolution is a dual concept, it comes from the realm of mind. It reflects the nature of presence/absence that the universe contain. And so when there is more presence, there is a sense of growth. However all there is, is a perception of having more mass. In truth, energy is just moving. It is never more or less than it has ever been or will ever be. Our earthly illusion lies inside another layer of illusion. Each layer is gaining more mass in order to reach the next layer. Outside of illusion there is only one layer, and that layer is beingness. The truth is so simple that the mind can only make the most complex structure to describe it. There is no other truth than existence itself. the: I AM. Everything else is illusion, but illusion IS nevertheless. It is the only transcendent concept. Everything else is an abstraction of this way too simple thing.

The creator is on both sides of the mirror but it's essence lies in the reflection itself. Dive within and it shall be reflected through you
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08-12-2017, 04:06 AM,
#6
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
(08-12-2017, 01:17 AM)sjel Wrote:  Okay, but then what is evolving? If it is not consciousness, and it is not the mind.

The personality.  Not the human personality, but the one we have between lives, which undergirds the personality we have while incarnated.  What Christians call the soul and Hindus call the koshas.
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08-12-2017, 08:29 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-12-2017, 08:35 AM by Nau7ik.)
#7
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
Quote:54.24 Questioner: The purpose then, seen from previous to incarnation, of what we call the incarnate physical state, seems to be wholly, or almost wholly, that of experiencing at that point the programmed catalyst and then evolving as a function of that catalyst. Is that correct?

Ra: I am Ra. We shall restate for clarity. The purpose of incarnative existence is evolution of mind, body, and spirit. In order to do this it is not strictly necessary to have catalyst. However, without catalyst the desire to evolve and the faith in the process do not normally manifest and thus evolution occurs not. Therefore, catalyst is programmed and the program is designed for the mind/body/spirit complex for its unique requirements. Thus it is desirable that a mind/body/spirit complex be aware of and hearken to the voice of its experiential catalyst, gleaning from it that which it incarnated to glean.

It's helpful to keep in mind that the Creator is knowing Itself. The Creator is becoming more than It is. Also, the 22 archetypes of the tarot layout this process of evolution for each complex in third density. (You are using your conscious mind to transform the mind. It is your conscious choice to choose to work with catalyst and evolve and transform thereby.)
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08-12-2017, 09:55 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-12-2017, 09:56 AM by IndigoGeminiWolf.)
#8
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
(08-12-2017, 03:46 AM)Night Owl Wrote:  There is no other truth than existence itself. the: I AM. Everything else is illusion, but illusion IS nevertheless. It is the only transcendent concept. Everything else is an abstraction of this way too simple thing.

There is I-I which is beyond I-AM.
Here is a chart I follow.

[Image: Infinity_Chart.png]

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08-12-2017, 10:49 AM,
#9
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
The evolution of consciousness is the integration of the mind/body/spirit. It's working with all three together to get accurate feedback - since the mind is fickle and certainly doesn't know as much as it thinks it does! So as long as the mind takes in information from both the body and the spirit in a balanced way, evolution of consciousness is possible.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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08-12-2017, 11:30 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-12-2017, 11:33 AM by Elros.)
#10
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
(08-11-2017, 10:11 PM)sjel Wrote:  It is almost as if the mind's attempt to understand is a complete charade, while the consciousness calmly and naturally progresses without thought. The mind is the only thing that I perceive as 'learning,' though. The mind learns things, but they are useless.

The consciousness 'learns,' right? It has to, or evolution would not occur? But how does a consciousness learn without thinking? The consciousness must evolve independent of the mind?

I think the work is two-fold.

One aspect, as a collective, lies in complexifying the mirror of the Creator's beingness into a greater mirror upon its truer nature that is infinity. This is the more conscious work of the highest densities, but is reflected at our own level still.
The second aspect, as a portion of the ALL in relative perception of being separate, is to grow into being without resistance to the truer nature of your own beingness that is infinity. This is more the conscious work of what strives toward the highest densities, but is reflected in the highest densities still.

So the first aspect is how the Earth came to be a veiled experience and also how the things here further distort things. The second aspect is how each here has the work (karma) to, either during or after incarnation, distill the love/light light/love within each thing that has created distortions within the strings of their beingness to, ultimately, become that which has no resistance in embracing its own infinite nature (becoming that which is unconditional).

How do we become one with all things? By not resisting that you already are, and then the self ends up falling away becoming one with the crown of all that is seen to be, to have been and to ever be within your beingness that ever was infinity. You never are not a thing, but each thing to be holds in the feeling of being a way and not another, that is the sense of identity and separation.

Always liked the Thoth tablets so I'll share a bit of it :

The Key to Above and Below Wrote:Each has his own part to play in the cycles.
Each has his work to complete in his way.
The cycle below thee is yet not below thee
but only formed for a need that exists.
For know ye that the fountain of wisdom
that sends forth the cycles is eternally
seeking new powers to gain.
Ye know that knowledge is gained only by practice,
and wisdom comes forth only from knowledge,
and thus are the cycles created by Law.
Means are they for the gaining of knowledge
for the Plane of Law that is the Source of the All.

Knowledge is awareness of the Creator of Itself, the drive toward it is as infinite as the Creator's beingness is infinite. Each moment is composed of what it's past was and in this it shapes the future. As the Creator seeks the Creator, Infinity seeks Infinity.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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08-12-2017, 02:02 PM,
#11
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
(08-12-2017, 03:46 AM)Night Owl Wrote:  Our earthly illusion lies inside another layer of illusion. Each layer is gaining more mass in order to reach the next layer. Outside of illusion there is only one layer, and that layer is beingness.

This model makes sense only in this layer. That is why I am starting to feel that any and every model is useless

Nisargadatta Maharaj said this: "The clearer you understand that on the level of the mind you can be described in negative terms only, the quicker you will come to the end of your search and realize your limitless being."

(08-12-2017, 04:06 AM)Stranger Wrote:  
(08-12-2017, 01:17 AM)sjel Wrote:  Okay, but then what is evolving? If it is not consciousness, and it is not the mind.

The personality.  Not the human personality, but the one we have between lives, which undergirds the personality we have while incarnated.  What Christians call the soul and Hindus call the koshas.

The soul is not consciousness?

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08-12-2017, 09:42 PM,
#12
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
(08-12-2017, 02:02 PM)sjel Wrote:  
(08-12-2017, 04:06 AM)Stranger Wrote:  
(08-12-2017, 01:17 AM)sjel Wrote:  Okay, but then what is evolving? If it is not consciousness, and it is not the mind.

The personality.  Not the human personality, but the one we have between lives, which undergirds the personality we have while incarnated.  What Christians call the soul and Hindus call the koshas.

The soul is not consciousness?

No, the soul is the vehicle for consciousness; the consciousness itself is Spirit. Spirit animates Soul.

Ra refers to us as body/mind/spirit complexes. Soul is the body/mind portion, which includes the non-physical bodies. It took me a while to figure this out.

Incidentally, this is why we are both "already perfect" and "need to do spiritual work to evolve." There's no contradiction here.
The perfection belongs to Spirit, which created a challenge for itself - encase its awareness in a sheath (personality) driven by second-density instincts inherited from the animals; add self-awareness, which allows self to see deficits in self, and to do work on self the way a craftsman whittles a piece of wood; and set it to work towards reshaping self into a form which allows the perfection of the Self/Spirit to shine through, unimpeded.
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08-19-2017, 02:38 AM,
#13
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
This bit seems relevant, from 8.3.1979:

/My friends, the roots of that tree that grows within your brain, that tree which is called the intellect, cannot be uprooted by force. The intellect can only be starved. Stay out of the rain, my friend. Avoid the sunshine. Do not think too much. It is as simple as that. Do not think about not thinking. The over-use of the intellect, the over-seriousness of your people, has held back more spiritual advancement than we can tell you among your people. You who are in the vast minority among the peoples of your planet, you who are the hope of your planet, you who care to know the truth—do not think that you can think your way to the truth. Know that you can only be the truth. You can only act the truth. You can only love, for that is the heart of the truth. You can only be the original Thought, for that is the heart of love.

There is a love that created you. In that love is all light and all joy. Joining it makes you as light as a butterfly. You have no gravity. You do not need to be serious. You do not need to heap blame, or guilt, for your past incorrectnesses upon yourself. Nor need you do it for others in any way, for others are only yourself, (inaudible) in your mind so that you may see yourself better, Look each person in the face—look yourself in the face—and find love. If you cannot find it, let it go. /
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08-19-2017, 03:46 AM,
#14
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
The mind is limited by the brain and so is limited by the frequency or density on which it resides. Consciousness is dependent and independent on the mind for evolution, one is limited to the lessons of the density and the other with the potential to reach intelligent energy.
I think.
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08-19-2017, 07:44 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-19-2017, 07:46 PM by anagogy.)
#15
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
(08-11-2017, 10:11 PM)sjel Wrote:  It is almost as if the mind's attempt to understand is a complete charade, while the consciousness calmly and naturally progresses without thought. The mind is the only thing that I perceive as 'learning,' though. The mind learns things, but they are useless.

The consciousness 'learns,' right? It has to, or evolution would not occur? But how does a consciousness learn without thinking? The consciousness must evolve independent of the mind?

Spirit has no need to evolve. If it helps, consider that it is like a time traveler from eons upon eons in the future where it has reached the "ultimate" or "infinite" already. It is pure TRUTH. Pure LIGHT. Pure AWAKENESS. [positive pole] The Polaris of the Self

Mind is constantly evolving, changing, forming, and dissolving. This is the mental form that spirit has erroneously come to believe it is (your true nature is spirit and always has been). The evolution it perceives, and tries to egoically take credit for, is really just the mind breaking down (gaps in the clouds forming, allowing light to shine down to the earth). The mind feels like it needs to take ownership of all that it sees.

Body simply reflects the nature of the mind. The mind is the builder of the body.

Matter, of whatever plane of existence is simply the opposite of spirit. It is the symbolic expression of FALSITY. Pure DARKNESS. Pure ASLEEPNESS. [negative pole]

I'm fond of metaphors/parables/analogies so here is one for you: The earth is like the body, the sky is like the mind, and the sun is like the spirit. Clouds are like thoughts that occur in the mind (the sky). The only function they really serve is to provide water (emotion) for the earth, and to block the sun from reaching the earth (darkness of perception). When the clouds are gone, the sun shines upon the earth, allowing life to grow (but the rain provided by the clouds is also necessary for the life to grow on earth -- life requires duality). But if you can realize your true nature, that is above the sky, no darkness can touch you, because the clouds can no longer block your relationship with the sun. This doesn't mean the clouds never come again, it just means you no longer perceive the darkness normally associated with them. Enlightened masters have stopped identifying with the earth, and have stopped identifying with the sky. When that happens they become what they have been since before time, pure radiance: the sun. The One Infinite Creator.  

The magic is recognized; the nature is often not.
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08-20-2017, 09:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-20-2017, 09:31 AM by loostudent.)
#16
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
Ra spoke of "consciousness-raising efforts of the distortion which you project as a personality" and "changes in consciousness" or "awareness".
------------
Grace to you and peace from God our Father.
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08-20-2017, 09:21 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-20-2017, 12:51 PM by Infinite Unity.)
#17
RE: You cannot cast off the mind with the mind. How then is evolution occurring.
Infinite Intelligence does not need a "mind" as we think of it, to think. The mind does not think, The mind governs and fractalizes incoming "transmissions" into the programmed state. Think Infinite intelligence, and the shuttle that is the spirit.

The Spirit(infinite intelligence) pouring down into the mind, and the body(infinite energy) pouring up into the mind. They are both conduits from which Infinite Intelligence/energy flows through to the mind, the mind then takes the Intelligence(which is infinite), and uses(constructs) the programmed reality. The mind is not the thinker, or your friend as a seeker.

Each chakra is like a packing center, as infinite energy flows through or bye, the center unpacks the intelligence, in the form by which it is congruent with. The body is an extension of the mind. Each centers has its specific purpose or role in unpacking and constructing the reality we see, around us, and within

The more congruent, you are mindfully with the Law of One, over-time the centers and mind naturally crystalize, revealing the true reality.

The conscience(fractelized infinite intelligence) is the thinker, however it is "governed" or only has the resources that the mind, body, and spirit offer it through the fractalized state.

True Infinite intelligence (un-Fractalized) Does not change, and does not think. It is, It knows.

To think is to move through mystery, to know is to be, to enter the infinite state.

Doubt manifests from not knowing, from thinking. When you know, you will come to the end of thinking and the true beginning of being.

In my opinion the only thought that Infinite Intelligence ever had or was worth having is the great original thought: Love. or us, The Logos, something it didn't "know" due to the very nature of itself, that is singularity, or Oneness. Which is the core paradox, or that which splits or fractalizes. How can you love anyone else, if you are the only one? You Imagine/think it. You play it out using light.

I was wrong about some of the above, the Mind is a representation of The Conscience, and could be said to think or process lower triad energies. The deeper portions of mind govern the higher energies, and intelligences.
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