leaning towards elimination of meat

[NY1877]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I am seriously considering a vegetarian (or minimal meat, flexetarian?) diet for its health and karmic benefits. This is no easy undertaking for I have grown so attached to the culinary delights that our 2nd density other-selves have provided.

But if it is the way, then I shall commit. After all, isn't the sensation of taste nothing but an illusion of electrical signals from our taste buds sent to our brain? And if we accept this fact, then why should we terminate entities in the process of becoming self-aware when the alternative diet simply calls for us to SACRIFICE the spectrum or variety of electrical signals from our tongue?

As far as the Law of One is concerned, is it indeed the way?

[Chett]

No expert here but I did note Ra mentioning eating meat in moderation for the 'instrument'. Now if we are not to be concerned about our own 'death', since its an opportunity to assess our path and reincarnate perhaps something similar is true of the the second density.
A cow does not have the opportunity to 'evolve' that a dog might ....
Also plants and animals are both 2nd density so if this is the path can we even eat plants?

[NY1877]

No expert here but I did note Ra mentioning eating meat in moderation for the 'instrument'. Now if we are not to be concerned about our own 'death', since its an opportunity to assess our path and reincarnate perhaps something similar is true of the the second density.
A cow does not have the opportunity to 'evolve' that a dog might ....
Also plants and animals are both 2nd density so if this is the path can we even eat plants?

Thank you for your insight brother.

The Hindus I know personally give a very strong argument. Edgar Cayce, correct me if I am wrong, also touts the benefits of the vegetarian diet--although he may be focusing on the health aspect, not the karmic.

If it is not an issue as far as the Law of One is concerned, then I shall move on focus my energies elsewhere.

[ayadew]

Being abused and violated by a 3rd density entity (killed, eaten) is probably a great learing experience for a 2nd density entity as they grow closer to understanding our free will. On the other hand, animals are much higher up in consciousness than plants. Plants do not have much individuality as animals and look upon themselves as a collective consciousness and do not think much about if some of them are eaten, for they are all one and will persist.
If this reasoning makes any sense, then a vegetarian diet may be plausible. I eat 90% vegetarian but some meat since I'm lazy about the protein. It's incredibly easier to get full worth protein from animal sources rather than plants.

In the end, all you do is well and perfect. Do as you wish, eat animals or not. The main reason I do not eat much meat is to not contribute too much to the extreme negativity created by the animal food industry on this planet.

[NY1877]

I have seen a cow butchered when I was young. It felt very very wrong. The stench of death still lingers in my mind.

I have seen many chickens butchered too. It felt bad too but not as much as the cow slaughter. Those legends of chickens running without their heads are true. I remember the people who were there laughed--I did not.

I have gone fishing before (not any more). Not so bad. But you get a small feeling of guilt at it goes through its death throes.

I have harvested vegetables, fruits, and many plants by hand. Zero guilt.

Follow your heart?

[Ali Quadir]

100% veggie here for at least 15 years now.

Unfortunately I have nothing really to add to the spiritual level of vegetarianism, I started doing it for a girl, and just never stopped. Sometimes fools in stores sell vegetarians products with meat in them because they can't see the difference between their own products. It's like finding a finger in your pasta.

So that's the honest reason why I stick to it, the thought of eating an animal makes me sick much like the thought of eating raw squid would probably make everyone else sick.

It's cheaper, it's sustainable, your risk of diseases and food poisoning are suddenly much much lower. All in all there's really no excuse for me to start eating it. It's not as if I want to.

I haven't actually taken care to "properly" adjust my diet... I just eat what I can and I don't think about the contents or balances or all that complicated stuff. I had absolutely no problems ever. That whole "we need meat" simply doesn't apply to me. And to be honest I don't think it applies to anyone.

My philosophy is that if you eat what you crave you'll get what you need.

You might have to show your body alternative sources first though.

[ayadew]

Indeed, follow it.
Remember, the easiest thing in the world is to not be aware. Do not blame those that are alseep. Those not aware are not interested in knowing more, so they go on eating their meat, doing their things, being satisfied with that. There is no guilt for them. But you have seen a reality beyond what the food industry feeds us.
I work towards not blaming those that eats excessive amounts of meat while still maintaining my beliefs. Tolerance and allowance is the key. I am grateful for my negative experiences with meat, for they make you aware so you can chose more freely.
Bless them, and see what they taught you.

[Lorna]

i've been veggie for 24 years, eating meat and fish always felt wrong to me

however i have a butcher and a beef and dairy farmer among my clients. the reason why i feel able to acitvely champion their business, even though it is essentailly the slaughter of animals, is that i have so much admiration for their approach to their work. they have the utmost respect for the animals, approach their work with such love and care and in the case of the famer is breaking new ground in environmental sustainability and welfare - truly remarkable people making a difference in their industries

some 3d bodies do 'need' animal protein, and of course there are many many more who are so conditioned to a diet that is dependent on animal proteins that they will struggle to exclude

therefore i think as others have said, listen to your body it will tell you waht you need. if you do find that a vegetarian diet doesn't suit then be a responsible consumer and chose the sources of your animal protein wisely. knowing that you are contributing, through your purchase, to environmentally sustainable food production and the highest possible welfare standards for livestock can be a descision made in love and respect for the animal

[Peregrinus]

I've for 40+ years been an omnivore. Having eyes facing the same direction is the design of a hunter. Having eyes on the side is the design of the hunted. Since vegetables don't need hunting, I assume the bipedal ape is in design able to eat all, but is primarily in design a hunter.

With that being said, I have tried on a number of occasions to become a vegetarian, but without success. I believe it was due to the lack of knowledge I have on ensuring the proper mineral intake.

About two weeks ago I was reading some Buddhist materials, and when I came to one point that states that when one eats an animal, one takes on the pain and suffering of that animal. Within a second of reading this, I got a positive (confirming) tone! I was amazed. It isn't like I have these tones every day.

When I learned to hunt in the German method, in Germany, and that I liked very much. It involved respect and ritual. I will at first speak of larger animals. When one killed an animal, it had to be a kill shot, through the heart, first and every time. If one did not get a kill shot, that was it; you would never hunt again. This insured the animal did not suffer. After the death, there was a broken branch ritual whereby you took a branch, broke it in two, put 1/2 in the animals mouth, and put the other half in your hat. This symbolized sharing a last meal with the animal. When it came to smaller animals, at the end of the day there was a removal of the hat and silence for the animals. The Germans take this all very seriously, with the course being one year in which a great deal is taught/ learned about not only hunting, but conservation and respect.

Now, the animals that appear on our table without thought or understanding in the process, live short, absolutely deplorable, lives. To put a cow into conditions like this is called a feedlot. To put chickens into a condition like this is called a chicken barn. These animals often never in their life see real grass, or for chickens, the sun. It is to these conditions that I object so strongly to, for this treatment is unkind, uncaring, and causes what I would believe to be a great deal of suffering.

So... I have looked at becoming a vegetarian again, this time with more insight into the matter. I have cut out meat for the most part (98%), and am working towards lacto-ovo-vegetarianism.

[fairyfarmgirl]

I am working to make my omnivorous family a nearly vegetarian family. We eat eggs and cheese and some fish (special occasions like Christmas or when visiting other people and that's what's for dinner) and about 4lbs of chicken a week. This feeds a family of 5 for a whole week and sometimes longer. We try our best to buy naturally raised chicken-- sometimes unable to do so... but I bless the food and visualize the Chicken as if it were in a good life before cooking and while cooking and before consuming. The whole family then blesses their food before consuming.

In times of wanting (when we were almost homeless) we ate what was given. We blessed it and consumed it in a sacred manner. I feel that when people pontificate a vegan and organic diet they do so from a place of relative comfort and free from want.

fairyfarmgirl

[AnthroHeart]

I've tried, but I'm such a terrible cook LOL

[Lavazza]

Some really great comments in this thread. I really do love this forum.

I should state on the outset that I really feel this is a personal decision to make. If you do not feel the tug of moral implication when eating meats, then I would not suggest that it is something you *should* become concerned with. Of course the fact that you, NY1877, are speaking about meats as you are (see post #5) indicates to me that there may be some fruit here worth pursuing. (Welcome to the forum by the way) However, the Law of One as given by Ra does not make judgement on this issue (nor indeed on many things, such is the nature of seeing through the lens Oneness).

My wife and I have "flirted" with vegetarianism for around 7 or 8 years. In the last year and a half we have become much more serious, for a variety of different reasons. Primarily for me is the issue Peregrinus touched on, that is the way in which our western societies have learned to harvest animals in so much the same way one might harvest corn or wheat. It's all about producing the most meat in the shortest possible time span with no consideration of the animals' situation. The term factory farming is exactly what it sounds like. This is a moral problem for me. But it is also a problem for the Earth. It takes a huge amount of resources to operate a factory farm. If we just took the same resources used to feed cattle, for example, and fed it to people instead, we would feed 3 or 4 times as many people. That's just one thing to consider among many other things.

For anyone who wants to look in to this more, I would suggest reading the book "Omnivore's Dilemma" by Michael Pollan: http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dilemma-...871&sr=8-1

Also good is the documentary 'Home', which is now online: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU

By the way Peregrinus, your description of the German hunting method sounds wonderful. I think if I lived in a society like that I wouldn't have any problem with meat eating!

[AnthroHeart]

The native americans weren't typically vegetarian as far as I know. But they hunted and were very respectful to what they had to take. They gave thanks to the earth. That is the right way to do it I think.

[Lavazza]

I almost forgot to add, you can actually find meats that are raised humanely although it does cost quite a bit more. Do a search in your local area for farming co-ops. We found one and signed up recently. You pay a fee and once a week you meet the farmers for a box full of fresh organic vegetables. The farm we're working with also offers meats that have been raised with full consideration for the animals' welfare, although we balked when we saw how much it cost. Easily 5 times what you would pay at a supermarket. And perhaps, well worth the cost! I think once my wife and I transition further away from meat eating we may start buying in that fashion. For one it ensures that we don't buy meat often (we couldn't afford it regularly), and two it essentially turns your purchase in to a vote. I try to think on these lines when I spend money... Every dollar really is a vote towards whatever you are buying. Companies follow the dollars, as we know. If everyone voted towards humane meats, we would eventually have only that.

[ayadew]

Indeed from an economical perspective, ecological and humane chicken meat costs like 'regular' beef tenderloin (Don't ask about the good beef tenderloin...). This is also a reason I don't eat much meat I simply can't!
Remember, someone is paying in the end. If you buy the cheap meat someone else will pay... the planet, those people exploited on the way and the animal itself.

[Ali Quadir]

I've for 40+ years been an omnivore. Having eyes facing the same direction is the design of a hunter. Having eyes on the side is the design of the hunted. Since vegetables don't need hunting, I assume the bipedal ape is in design able to eat all, but is primarily in design a hunter.

Having eyes in the front is a sign of an animal who needs 3d vision. Like for example a tree climber. Hunter or prey status doesn't matter, if you need strong 3d vision you'll develop it.

If we look at the intestines and the teeth we do not have the equipment to be a hunter. We ate insects and mollusks. Sometimes a dead animal that we came across. No big game.. It's only when we learned to use our brain to make tools that we were able to kill the big game...

Can you imagine killing a deer with your teeth? It's simply not going to work. We are not designed to be predators... Our canines are pathetic our speed is poor, and our strength just cannot do it.

[Lavazza]

Can you imagine killing a deer with your teeth? It's simply not going to work. We are not designed to be predators... Our canines are pathetic our speed is poor, and our strength just cannot do it.

Quite right! Of course we do have something that is even more dangerous than teeth. A big noodle. No, not that noodle...

[Lorna]

I feel that when people pontificate a vegan and organic diet they do so from a place of relative comfort and free from want.

hey fairyfarmgirl, i hope my post didn't come over as having such a tone, it was more that i've moved from a very very pro-veggie perspective to understanding that good work is done by people involved in meat production. if one is able to support ethical and environmentally sustainable meat production then that is a good thing for people who struggle with the idea of giving up meat completely

[AnthroHeart]

Fascinating. I do for one believe that the energy behind how they lived and died will affect us when we ingest it.

That's why I won't eat cake or something that was prepared by an angry person. I much prefer what was made with love.

I almost forgot to add, you can actually find meats that are raised humanely although it does cost quite a bit more. Do a search in your local area for farming co-ops. We found one and signed up recently. You pay a fee and once a week you meet the farmers for a box full of fresh organic vegetables. The farm we're working with also offers meats that have been raised with full consideration for the animals' welfare, although we balked when we saw how much it cost. Easily 5 times what you would pay at a supermarket. And perhaps, well worth the cost! I think once my wife and I transition further away from meat eating we may start buying in that fashion. For one it ensures that we don't buy meat often (we couldn't afford it regularly), and two it essentially turns your purchase in to a vote. I try to think on these lines when I spend money... Every dollar really is a vote towards whatever you are buying. Companies follow the dollars, as we know. If everyone voted towards humane meats, we would eventually have only that.

[fairyfarmgirl]

I feel that when people pontificate a vegan and organic diet they do so from a place of relative comfort and free from want.

hey fairyfarmgirl, i hope my post didn't come over as having such a tone, it was more that i've moved from a very very pro-veggie perspective to understanding that good work is done by people involved in meat production. if one is able to support ethical and environmentally sustainable meat production then that is a good thing for people who struggle with the idea of giving up meat completely

No, Lorna--- (sigh--- I am sorry)

I was speaking in general--- having been pontificated on by those of wealth and ease about how I should and shouldn't do this or that... it is always interesting that when coming from those types of people (no one here) that they are never willing to share thier wealth or ease so that others may reap the many benefits of a vegan/raw food diet. Love--fairyfarmgirl

[Lorna]

please don't say sorry! i just wanted to double check

[Ali Quadir]

Can you imagine killing a deer with your teeth? It's simply not going to work. We are not designed to be predators... Our canines are pathetic our speed is poor, and our strength just cannot do it.

Quite right! Of course we do have something that is even more dangerous than teeth. A big noodle. No, not that noodle...

Yes, but how did we survive until we started fighting these meatballs with the pasta you're talking about?

I think scientists suggest that originally we survived by hanging out in trees and by communicating a lot creating a net of communication with many eyes and relative safety. That eventually allowed language and conceptual skills to evolve. At that time we did not eat large prey, we ate mostly vegetables and fruits, and we had insects and snails when we found them... This is the diet we evolved on and it still is excellent for humans. Mammoths were a very recent affair. The whole heart and vascular disease problem we have in the rich world is to a large part caused by our meat rich diet.

The ultimate predators in this world are on the whole quite dumb. Different things are important to them. The cat is a great example. Fast, stealthy, agile, elegant.... mad as a hatter. The smart guys of the animal world are the organized gangs. Pigs are smart creatures. But so are rats and other rodents. Monkeys pigs and rodents of course had a common ancestor. It wasn't a predator. We were probably much like lemurs



Lemurs are badasses.

As soon as we figured out how to use tools to kill big game a few of us specialized in it and added a good addition to our diets. Great in fact they didn't grow as old as we do, so they probably didn't have the same side effects. And it was probably the reason we could afford to move around more freely since we could now survive in harder zones to live in. The major reason for our species success.

Those were the days my friends

I don't have an issue with eating meat. Like I said, the reason I'm a vegetarian is mostly a habit by now. If I had no other option I'd eat meat without guilt. This is a savage garden, each of us has a small chance of being eaten by an animal. This chance used to be bigger. I fully agree with the suggestion we should be conscious of the souls behind the expression. And choose consciously. The way commercialism handles all this is outrageous. But it is in essence a part of life. As far as I am concerned a personal choice.

I think anyone can do it, I can whip up a good vegetarian meal for the price of a burger.

[NY1877]

In times of wanting (when we were almost homeless) we ate what was given. We blessed it and consumed it in a sacred manner. I feel that when people pontificate a vegan and organic diet they do so from a place of relative comfort and free from want.

fairyfarmgirl

This is a very valid point sister.

The economic realities of our time does make the vegetarian and/or "organic" lifestyle quite expensive in both time and effort. A simple comparison between the average grocery bill from a Whole Foods vs. Walmart shopping trip does put the argument to rest.

But also consider that the forces of mass production will not re-align to more positive practices unless we, their source of income, demand it. The concept of a dedicated chain of organic supermarkets in most major cities in America would have been thought folly 20 years ago. Perhaps I am too optimistic but many would agree that there is much promise in the fact that a lot of people today are now asking: what exactly are we putting in our bodies?

So I humbly recommend, as others have, to pass no judgments on those who do not wish to pursue this choice. But we should, however, not discourage people who are blessed to be in the position to pursue this ideal.

[thefool]

This poem from Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet : On Eating and Drinking- Summarizes beautifully the essential-

"But since you must kill to eat, and rob the young of its mother's milk to quench your thirst, let it then be an act of worship,

And let your board stand an altar on which the pure and the innocent of forest and plain are sacrificed for that which is purer and still more innocent in many.

When you kill a beast say to him in your heart,

"By the same power that slays you, I to am slain; and I too shall be consumed. For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand.

Your blood and my blood is naught but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven."

And when you crush an apple with your teeth, say to it in your heart,

"Your seeds shall live in my body,

And the buds of your tomorrow shall blossom in my heart,

And your fragrance shall be my breath,

And together we shall rejoice through all the seasons."

[fairyfarmgirl]

In times of wanting (when we were almost homeless) we ate what was given. We blessed it and consumed it in a sacred manner. I feel that when people pontificate a vegan and organic diet they do so from a place of relative comfort and free from want.

fairyfarmgirl

This is a very valid point sister.

The economic realities of our time does make the vegetarian and/or "organic" lifestyle quite expensive in both time and effort. A simple comparison between the average grocery bill from a Whole Foods vs. Walmart shopping trip does put the argument to rest.

But also consider that the forces of mass production will not re-align to more positive practices unless we, their source of income, demand it. The concept of a dedicated chain of organic supermarkets in most major cities in America would have been thought folly 20 years ago. Perhaps I am too optimistic but many would agree that there is much promise in the fact that a lot of people today are now asking: what exactly are we putting in our bodies?

So I humbly recommend, as others have, to pass no judgments on those who do not wish to pursue this choice. But we should, however, not discourage people who are blessed to be in the position to pursue this ideal.

I strive to buy that which is regional or locally produced. In the produce areas of the local grocery store (I only go to Walmart at a very very last resort and I eschew as much as possible the multi-nationally owned grocery chains... ) I shop they have a reduced veg/fruit cart with the fruit that is about to burst due to ripeness and/or is blemished. Most of the fruits are regionally produced on cooperative family farms.... I try to avoid produce made by the Multinational Corporations. And for the most part I feel I am able to do so. When I had a larger income, we ate only regionally produced small farm organic or naturally raised biodynamic foods. I know a lot about this and my family's present economic situation (although changing slowly for the better) is a great source of pain and I must admit shame for me. So I do the best I can with what is given.

I agree the buying power in our current system dictates how the market goes... and for this I am honored by all those with the buying power to do so! I would also encourage those with more to give to Food Banks organic food! So much that is given when I go to the food bank I have to return to them because for us it is inedible. With a family of people who are allergic to MSG, Corn Syrup, Food Colorants, preservatives It is a challenge to feed us all on what we have budgeted for food. We fall in the working poor category... too rich to recieve help but too poor afford the essentials. So in order to feed the family we gave up our phone, travel (except to and from work and 1 family outing within 20 miles of the house) and most non-food purchases.

I have learned to make bone broth and to use every scrap that is edible from the veggies to make soup stock. Waste not want not is the rule of the day. As a result our compost pile is shrinking and the animals that have come to enjoy the result are showing up on our doorstep wondering where the grub is... LOL

I also strive to buy that which is not encased in plastic. So much organic food is triple packed in plastics! Ridiculous, marketing! I try to buy as much stuff as I am able to that is not packed in plastic but in paper or in glass jars. If I do have to buy something in plastic I strive to make sure it is packed in #2 or #5 plastic. Which most towns in the area of the USA I live recycle.

fairyfarmgirl

[Peregrinus]

A 2009 study showed that, in 13 years, Roundup Ready crops increased herbicide use by 383 million pounds. AND
Obama is not only allowing this, but supporting it.

One small step for poison, one large grave for mankind.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ronnie-cum...32185.html

[ayadew]

It's end game Peregrinus.

[Lavazza]

Lemurs are badasses.

Great post Ali. And yes, I whole heatedly agree with you here!

[colorado]

I agree with what was said before about becoming vegetarian if you feel the moral pull. I however, do not feel such a pull. I love meat, and I have no qualms about eating it. I believe that there is nothing wrong with eating meat, as it is a natural source of energy. The ways that meat is harvested, while not the best, is just the way it is in my point of view. Would I support a more humane way of getting meat? Of course I would, but I simply don't feel the need to stop eating it. It is a very personal decision, and if a person feels that it is the right path for them, then more power to them!

[Peregrinus]

I agree with what was said before about becoming vegetarian if you feel the moral pull. I however, do not feel such a pull. I love meat, and I have no qualms about eating it. I believe that there is nothing wrong with eating meat, as it is a natural source of energy. The ways that meat is harvested, while not the best, is just the way it is in my point of view. Would I support a more humane way of getting meat? Of course I would, but I simply don't feel the need to stop eating it. It is a very personal decision, and if a person feels that it is the right path for them, then more power to them!

I don't think anyone said anything to the contrary my friend, though it has nothing to do with power. It is indeed a personal choice, and we on this forum understand and respect that with our hearts and minds.