Am I alone in my view of the dark?

[Brittany]

Sorry! Sorry! <Goes back to lurking>

[Huntress]

Every act has a ripple effect. I find the positive that springs from the negative. Unpleasant things are happening all around us, as not everyone chooses to suit another. It would be nice if it weren't like that, but it is. And since that is yet the case, imo it is good to seek unity and peace in all things. I accept, although I may not enjoy, the behavior of others. I choose only for myself. I choose to find peace and unity within myself by searching for the peace and unity contained within all things. That has proved much more helpful (for me) than allowing horrible acts of darkness to consume me with bitterness, hatred of others, confusion, ect. Rape, murder, etc. aren't necessary tools for growth and learning on our journeys back to the Creator. Yet some of us still choose them as experiences. With that as the case, I choose to do what I am capable of in MY journey to balance such acts as much as possible from my limited ability. I choose to see their value, to accept them, but not to participate in them. I cannot balance someone else's Karma or learn their lessons. Only mine. That assists both self and other selves greatly, as we are all intensely interconnected. We are All One. The energy I put forth reaches, & has great potential to assist, each entity...All...in whatever way I choose to extend it. I intend to offer light, love, acceptance, and unity to ALL. No exceptions.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Patrick]

Great thread. So much wisdom and lulz all mixed up.

[Huntress]

To clarify my previous post now that I am in a very calm state & willing to elaborate, my father was drugged and beaten by his former lover. While laying in his bathroom bleeding too death from his brain, he died from a massive heart attack. I'm the one who found the aftermath of that event. As I said, his body was in horrible condition with substantial trauma to his face, head, and upper body. I cleaned up the blood after the investigation. (Come to find out, police don't do that.) The murderer mailed me a mocking greeting card afterward.

And yes, I can still say I appreciate the value & the beauty in this. It is difficult, and each time I explore that it requies an amount of choice, effort, & will to seek peace & unity in this act. But once I hit that place inside me of understanding, the acceptance flows & I am able to genuinely forgive, be merciful, and allow love to illuminate the event. I offer the hope of this same comfort for All who are ready to receive such a gift of inner balance that comes with truly loving, accepting & forgiving.

The Creator is Love. Finding Love where it seems Love does not exist is easier than it seems, for Love is All That Is. Love is in All things, as Love is All that exists. Darkness may yet exist, but it is only Light which has not yet been illuminated. All will eventually be illuminated, and just as we are not yet as we will be once fully illuminated, neither is darkness yet as it will be once fully illuminated. We are not in this "now" time All that which we will become, but we very much are All that we will ever be at all times, as time is relative & an illusion. Same with darkness. The closer we come to being fully illuminated by the Light, the Closer we come to full circle into the Creator. Darkness can be being illuminated each minute within each one of us if we so choose. Darkness is simply an unilluminated aspect of the Creator, a "not as of yet"...same as us at this "now" point!

There is darkness in each of us. We, as STO, do not embrace it or feel enamored by it. We simply work to accept that we are imperfect, knowing all is wholly worthy & acceptable, yet hoping to obtain highest & best when possible. As part of our efforts to choose love, we work to develop a healthy love for self. Would we cut out our own parts, or have them ripped out from us while we are yet utilizing them? We are putting forth effort to illuminate our darkness. In the meantime, our shadow sides our necessary. Highest & best: we love ourselves enough to accept darkness while working to illuminate it, appreciating that it is with us in this "now" time bc it is necessary, & striving for the Creator when we will truly be One with our shadow & with All. Highest & best: we love other selves enough to afford them this same love.

While choosing responsibility for self (since we are in this "now" time where the illusion of self is still necessary) AND choosing responsibility for other selves in a positive way (as in offering the Light generated from self to others), imo it makes perfect sense to look for peace, love, unity & beauty in ALL things. Generate the most of that for self, for others, for All...& the more places you look for it, the more chances you have of finding it! It's all in perspective. The illusion of beauty within the illusion lies in the eye of the beholder. I want my illusion, & everyone else's, to be as beautiful as possible!

---

As always, that is only my opinion. Please disregard that which does not resonate. Offering in deepest love & humility.

[Shin'Ar]

It is intriguing to see so many students of the One philosophy winding their way through so many doorways on their quest for understanding.

As we learn we tend to bounce back and forth from one way of thinking to another, and just when we suppose we have settled on a doctrine something happens to make us once again change our stance.

This is the true manifestation of open minded growth. Remember this if you find yourself suddenly leaning to my way of thinking.


Now to elaborate my thinking on this matter further, I would point out that just because there is an opposite to experience, does not mean that it must be experienced. If such was the case then there would not be free will to choose.

Just because there are many aspects of duality that can be experienced, does not mean that the experiencing of them is beneficial to the development of the consciousness. If such was the case then humankind would have learned a long time ago from their many mistakes of having experienced such darkness. That we have not is ample evidence that such experience is not beneficial to growth.

To suggest that just because creation includes many aspects that are detrimental to the evolution and harmony of consciousness, somehow means that it is okay to experience such things and find beauty in them is simply denying the truth of their actual character.

Forgiveness does not have anything to do with deluding one's self into believing that murder is beautiful. Forgiveness is a choice that one makes to move on from such ugliness and try to discover a more beautiful place than wallowing in the despair and anger of the dreadful act.

What is being forgotten here, as is so often the case with seekers and wanderers, is that there is more than just choice, there is also direction.

The Process of Being involves more than simply experiencing every possible thing that one can experience, it also involves the wise understanding of information gained through experiences, so that one can move in a direction that leads toward evolution and development rather than stagnation and retardation of consciousness.

Free will does not mean that one should experience everything. It means that one should use that option to choose with discernment with regards to the consequences of such choice and the direction one chooses to head.

In my opinion it is not density nor veil that creates the burden of misunderstanding, but that burden is the consequence of poor decision making, probably because wisdom has not been acquired in the understanding of certain aspects of the Process of Being.

To say that murder is beautiful because death is death regardless of how it occurs is one example of understanding lacking wisdom.

To suggest that ugliness is beautiful might be a matter of individual perception when comparing the appearances of things, but to try to extend that to suggesting a mutilated human body bleeding to death is a beautiful sight, is simply unwise effort to make a circumstance fit into a philosophy.

The same is seen when trying to use balance as a justification for murder, in the example of balancing light and dark. The ancient Tao symbol would be easily explained by the ancients and none of those explanations would include the teaching that murder is beautiful. Balance is a matter of restricting the control of extremity. It is directing the control of duality toward the goal of having achieved an experience where no extreme can be in control of its opposite. This is the true meaning behind the Tao. To suggest that the Tao somehow represents that all aspects of duality are beautiful and beneficial for experiencing is just not acquiring the wisdom behind its true teaching.

Does the child really need to burn its hand in the fire to understand the consequences of such action?

In a world without the ability to acquire wisdom and evolve that might be the case, but in the application of available wisdom, the experience can be avoided by choosing direction of one way or another.

One way is to believe that there is some beauty in the deformity of burning flesh and the agony of a child.

Another way is to realize that one can teach lessons without the actual experiencing, and apply the wisdom of earlier experience by one who would quickly tell you not to place your hand in the fire.

THAT is what this about my friends.

Not the experiencing of The All.

But the acquiring of wisdom through the experiencing.

If it was as you here claim it to be, all one wonderful and beautiful experience, then we would still be living as primitives, because we would not have evolved in a direction away from that primal ignorance. We would have learned nothing from the experience of the first primitive to ingest a poison berry, and would have continued poisoning ourselves for the sake of the experience, rather than evolving based upon an acquired wisdom from the experience of that one having shared with us the knowledge gained through that experience.

Knowledge and wisdom are the manifestations of the evolving consciousness. The ability to evolve in the direction of understanding and wisdom is the means to fully experiencing creation in an intelligent manner. Suffering horror just for the sake of an experience that many wise ones would have quickly warned you about, is not the manifestation of intelligence.

Just as there is light and dark, there is also intelligence and stupidity.

Intelligence manifests itself in the increasing of wisdom and understanding.

Stupidity manifests itself in the continued suffering of experiences that intelligent beings should not have to suffer. Such as the constant state of war that defines human nature.

We do experience both light and dark in this existence, and we also experience intelligence and stupidity.

Wisdom is in balancing the extremes of each so that direction is found toward development rather than retardation.

Those who sit on one end of the seesaw by themselves will not experience the movement and possibilities of those who attempt to balance it.

Sitting on one end and declaring the beauty of it to those observing you, is quite lost to the experience of those on the seesaw next to you that are experiencing the consequences of trying to balance their board. They see your ignorance as lack of intelligence, regardless of how much you try to paint your depiction as beautiful.

Regardless of your desire to make your philosophy work, you are lacking balance, and direction. And your immobility of direction is clearly manifest in your inability to move at all in any direction.

Murder is not beauty. We all know this. And yet in our efforts to understand duality and our desire to make our speculations fit into philosophies we would like to adopt, we sit on our seesaw motionless, and speak of beauty in places where we know intelligently that beauty does not exist.

I commend the effort to understand The All, but I point out that balance is not had by taking the extreme alone and out of context.

Light is nor dark, and dark is not light. Each is the dual aspect of the other, the result of the being of consciousness.

Horror and suffering is not pleasure and enjoyment. These are dual aspects of each other.

The experiencing of such is supposed to move the consciousness in a direction of understanding. Once the experience is shared between consciousnesses, the wisdom gained is in avoiding pain and suffering and seeking pleasure and enjoyment for the purpose of evolving into a more harmonious state of vibration that creates direction toward that same frequency of The One, rather than the untuned frequency of the fragments seeking the One.

This is the difference between remaining trapped in the cycle of darkness, and ascending into higher being.

Those who continue to seek darkness and find beauty in murder are not learning from the experience of the One, they are simply replaying the steps of the many that have learned first hand before them, in ignorance of what those had to share of their consequences.

This is not evolution of consciousness by any means. This is pure repetition where nothing was learned by the fragment from the experience of The One.

To claim All is One as a justification for continued and repeated stupidity, just for the sake of experiencing that which need not be experienced again, is not the manifestation of wisdom. Such is the manifestation of human nature attached to its flesh.

Wisdom is the understanding revealed by Richard above when he states :

"But in no way do I, or will I ever, accept those who perpetrate such acts as loving human beings acting out the will of the creator, or whatever new age double talk people are using these days to justify those acts." UNQUOTE

In my opinion there is no justification of choosing ignorance over wisdom, when the obvious is available to us from the experiences of those who have gone before us.

Murder is beautiful because all is one? I think not!

Murder is beautiful if one deliberately chooses to be ignorant of the many experiences of previous consciousness that warn of, and point to, its horror and extreme imbalance. And in such ignorance of previous sharing of fields, and deliberate will to define extremity according to one's own delusions, many other aspects of duality will also fall under the methods of their delusional efforts establishing a philosophy of worshiping extremism rather than balance.

And we all know where this leads.

There are many extremists out there in the world who ignore the wise teachings of others who would share their experiences of extremity, and in their ignorance they establish their own philosophies and religions rooted in their ignorance rather than the wise experience of others who have been there before.

Have we moved in a direction beyond this attraction to extremity, or do we fall into line with those who choose to repeat the same old mistakes, poisoning their evolution with retardation, going back to the same berry bush time after time, suffering their 'beauty' of stomach spasms and nausea, just because it is there.

Move on!

Coincidence that this was the very statement I made in another post with regard to what Ra might say if it had one thing to repeat ten times as an important message of the Law of One? I think not! Rather it is always fitting and appropriate.


Cyan has stated :

"Murder is of the Madre (That which reacts) and if you cant love it, you arent ready to ascend to the 4th (what do you think it feels like to your self when you take off the mask of ego and reveal to the self the soul within)

AScension is murder of the self," UNQUOTE


I say that if you choose to love murder, that you do not understand the true meaning of self. That would be the reason one would not ascend.

Knowing the true self is realizing that there is no self to murder. It is not understanding true self that results in the consequences of murder.

[Cyan]

Cyan has stated :

"Murder is of the Madre (That which reacts) and if you cant love it, you arent ready to ascend to the 4th (what do you think it feels like to your self when you take off the mask of ego and reveal to the self the soul within)

AScension is murder of the self," UNQUOTE

I say that if you choose to love murder, that you do not understand the true meaning of self. That would be the reason one would not ascend.

Knowing the true self is realizing that there is no self to murder. It is not understanding true self that results in the consequences of murder.

I choose to try to define murder in a way that a definition of it can be loved, and then slowly from that one narrow definition striving to broaden my acceptence of it by learning to love the situations where i see it happening AND/IF in such situations love from a another viewpoint is available that i would consider fitting here. Eventually i'll reach a point where i say that this i refuse to love. But it wont be because of an arbitary verbal tag without any moral complexity, grounding or depth as "murder" (meat is murder ya'll)

But rather, it will be defined by what i consider morally accetable to me as a individual in this individuated intelligence.

And to me, murder is beautiful, because the division of it into aspects helps me better define myself as a entity. What is my opinion of when it would be proper to force the end to someones incarnation. IF we are all in heaven right now and incarnation is the belief that you are not in heaven and you are doing something to seriously harm or damage yourself. Then murder, that is, the temporary removal of the self by force to prevent further harm in "time".

There is one good reason for murder that i can think of. And it is the murder of the belief in the self as a creature that requires suffering.

That is to say, murder is only applicable, like all things, by the self to the self. And only applicable when the self feels the need to speak to the self, and then if all other attempts are ignored, death is caused by physical stimulation (getting a knife in the stomach helps for the most determined individuals, getting a pinch and being told you died works for kids)

Therefore, murder is beautiful because it ends a cycle of not listening to the self by the only availability left to the self, forced reincarnation by intervention from another self as per the request of the self that is, in actuality, all that is.


To end my post:

Do you think the logos would create something that is not beautiful in some light, even if that light is not yours in the now?

IT might not be beautiful in yours now, it might not be beautiful in yours ever, or it might be only beautiful partially in yours, but dont say that it isnt beautiful, just acknowledge its beauty with calm detachment of will (the one time when such detachment of will, i feel, is appropriate, acknowledging something that exists as a catalyst but is calmly refused) and move on.


Edit: being less than perfect this is to say nothing of how well I actually succeed in my goal as opposed to creatures that have millions of years of personal emotional experience to rely on.

[Shin'Ar]

But rather, it will be defined by what i consider morally acceptable to me as a individual in this individuated intelligence.

Communication and wise application of gathered information is the key to acquiring further wisdom.

Individual opinion is not communication in this sense, but rather the manifestation of one's attempt to discern that which is communicated.

[Cyan]

Does discernment not pay a huge part in communication?

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Cyan]

That is the crux of the matter i came upon. =)

---

Shin'Ar, we must ask, if there is no self to murder, how is there self to love?

[DMCubic]

Shin'Ar is going to hate this, but I think the beauty of an act of murder or some other negative action is truly in the eye of the beholder. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but:

1. Ra said that negatively-polarizing individuals often plan incarnations with lots of wealth, physical attractiveness, and opportunities to gain power over others. The consequence of this is that the universe does not seem to punish people for negativity, but by most people's standards rewards it, as long as it is an action deliberately performed to increase negative polarity.

2. Ra also said about the polarity split, to paraphrase, that some beings love peace and harmony and pleasure while other beings love darkness and despair and pain. Do we not find beauty in that which we love most? I think the consequence here is that some people find negativity beautiful.

3. Ra also said that about 10% of people in this universe take the negative path. The consequence is that it is a significant minority that finds negativity beautiful.

Given this, it becomes problematic to say flat-out that negative circumstances are not beautiful. If one accepts that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, you have to deal with a significant minority who believes negativity is beautiful. That's not insubstantial enough to just write them off as foolish.

A similar significant minority finds homosexuality beautiful and appropriate. If the idea of it, or any other harmless sexual proclivity for that matter, grosses you out, you can't just say it's not beautiful. Liberal-minded people typically are loathe to say the minority of homosexuals are just completely out of touch with reality when they see their version of beauty.

If what you want, then, is not to accept that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to say it's objective, you still have to refute these absurd consequences of that position:

1. The Sublime. A gamma-ray burster wipes out an entire planet in a split second. A hurricane forms and kills 20 million with flooding and flying debris. A plague wipes out 1/3 of the world's population. For all the human misery, the universe cares about this as much as you care about the bugs your car windshield squashes on the way to work or the bacteria your immune system wipes out in its endless war. The Creation is just way, way bigger than any amount of misery, no matter how bad, period. Many philosophers of aesthetics consider moments or facts which force us to see things this way to be very beautiful. It's something that has always enjoyed support.

Contemplation of sublime beauty can put negativity and positivity alike in a beautiful relationship to the All - in any amount, no matter how large, they are still infinitesimal. It could always get indefinitely better or worse, and it's the Creator that wants to and will and already has experienced itself in this way. If that's not true, I think the Law of Love and the existence of time-space must be cast out as they lead to this conclusion.


2. Relativity/interconnectedness. The universe creates on the basis of interconnected binary opposites. No light without dark, we hear often; likewise no dark without light. Coupled with the premise that the will of the Creator is entirely bare to see in its completion in time-space, you have to accept that every part depends on every other part. In other words, a single tender kiss is built on a foundation of mass murder. A million people choked on mustard gas so you could enjoy a walk in the park.

So no beautiful thing exists in itself. Beautiful things are nonlocally connected to ugly ones just as your fingers are locally connected to your hand. And that connection is no less real. So the very idea of self-existent beautiful things is challenged. It might even be said, because a million people in some parallel universe had to die horribly for me to listen to a song whose beauty made me cry, that I am profiting from their deaths, as they were a "necessary evil" that caused my enjoyment in a very real way, albeit one we don't often think about.

It could also be said, due to nonlocal interconnectedness, that no beautiful thing or event exists alone without ugly parts, and vice versa for ugly things with beautiful parts. When a person has a mix of beautiful and ugly parts, in body or personality, evaluating their beauty becomes complex, and we often have to admit, open to eye-of-the-beholder interpretation.


3. Ascension to sixth density would be undesirable. In 6D, unity is appreciated and the positive and negative histories of all entities are seen in their fullness and understood as interconnected. The unity is more beautiful than if just positivity had existed. The beauty of both polarities is seen. If the negative is objectively ugly and worth separating oneself from, 6D couldn't exist.

I'll admit that #3 here is kind of weak. Maybe someone with a better understanding of how the +/- polarized paths feed into 6D could support along these general lines, or refute #3.

Anyway. There's my two cents on dark beauty. I have the benefit and bias of never having been crushed by the jackboot of political oppression, of having a relative murdered, of being terminally ill, or any other very negative situation.

But I see the beauty in things like the fact that there are wasps which violently crack open the carapaces of other bugs, lay eggs in them, and then leave them to be eaten alive, from the inside out, by their larvae. I look at the history of warfare and see beauty alongside the cruelty of the development of military tactics. I see beauty in the fact that I'm vulnerable to being beaten, raped, and left for dead in a ditch. I see beauty in the fact that there is an animal out there somewhere being eaten alive by pack predators against whom it didn't stand a chance. I see my brother smoking himself to death and can see the beauty in his addiction.

Basically, I kinda like the dark side. I see the mad beauty in it, and I thank God for my suffering and yours when I see the sun rise and feel thankful for another day.

My knowledge is that the darkness is eternal. My opinion is that it's as beautiful as the light.

[Huntress]

DM,

I thought that was very thoughtful & eloquent. Thank you! I enjoyed your thoughts.

Shin'Ar,

You said, "Forgiveness does not have anything to do with deluding one's self into believing that murder is beautiful. Forgiveness is a choice that one makes to move on from such ugliness and try to discover a more beautiful place than wallowing in the despair and anger of the dreadful act."

The latter definition suggests moving on from the ugliness of the act without accepting it. It serves to create distance from ugliness & search for harmony. It does not deal with ugliness, which still very much exists. I am interested in how you DO deal with & meet ugliness?

Have you constructed ways you consider non-deluded which allow you to come to this more beautiful place where you no longer despair and anger while facing the ugliness squarely rather than merely separating from it? If so, I am very interested to hear them. This is a wonderful opportunity for exchange of perspective while offering love.

Ugliness is a part of All, and it remains. Any way to face it (imo) would exclude destruction of any aspect of the Creator, including shadow, as destruction is a dividing, controlling method...an STS oriented method. I find no place for division, separation, or destruction in the following most basic LOO principle: ALL IS ONE. If destruction, control, manipulation, or blatant disregard for/separation from shadow is utilized in the method chosen for facing darkness, the method is distorted according to that very principle. (imo)

If you are willing to share your thoughts on this according to the basic LOO principle I would be pleased to listen with an open heart. Thank you for your post. I enjoyed your thoughts & agreed with many of your views.

L/L

[Shin'Ar]

Does discernment not pay a huge part in communication?

Not in my thinking Cyan.

Discernment is done by the individual regarding what was communicated to them. Discernment can be a group effort, but that is not the point I am making in this case.

Given this, it becomes problematic to say flat-out that negative circumstances are not beautiful. If one accepts that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, you have to deal with a significant minority who believes negativity is beautiful. That's not insubstantial enough to just write them off as foolish.
My knowledge is that the darkness is eternal. My opinion is that it's as beautiful as the light.

DMC, the argument you make is the same one that humanity has debated for countless centuries. It is the Star Trek mantra of ‘sacrificing the few for the many’. And the argument to that has been our definition of what makes us human if we would sacrifice even one life. In other words what we speak of here is not a matter of semantics, the eye of the beholder or the experiencing of The All in its many facets.

It is simply a matter of the attributes which we have been endowed with from the Divine, and how we as humans will manifest those attributes.
Being human is not a matter of being an individual identity with no regard for life or the Mystery from which it spawns.

Being human is a process in which we discover that evolving is more than simply experiencing The All, it is building wisdom and character which evolves into higher being. Not as some higher form of an illusionary human self, but as a field of consciousness fragmented from the One Consciousness evolving as it does more than simply experience, but also as It becomes that which it began as; Light.

The duality of light and dark is not a matter of perception; it is a matter of One Process of Being struggling to comprehend its reality. In this process of discovery one process of being seek Light, not darkness. Darkness is what it now realizes. Light is the goal and the direction.

You misunderstand me if you suppose that I do not realize that many will see beauty in things that others may find beauty in.

But that realization does not mean that the discerning of those who see beauty in torture and pain is not afflicted with error and unwise judgement. It simply means that in their misunderstanding they see beauty in things that are not beautiful.

That you see beauty in horror does not grant you the right to redefine beauty. It simply means that in your process of being, and your discernment of experience, you have in error seen beauty in that which is not beautiful.

Regardless of any one’s particular perceptions, when they observe a family slowly starving to death and see one member of that family murder another in order to cannibalize the body, and they see a father sacrifice his last morsel of food for his child so that it can survive, it is not difficult to know which is beauty and which is not.

The cannibal may be a reality of this creation and part of The All, but its true character and relation to the All is manifest not in its mere existing side by side, but in its choices made within the process of being.

Beauty is manifest in the father’s sacrifice, the manifestation of love rather than selfishness.

Beauty is what defines the character of The All in its choices made during the process of being, not the actual state of the individual experiences along the way.

If we were the last two humans on the planet, what would your definition of beauty matter if I was to kill us both? In that instance humanity and the opportunity for its development into higher being becomes nothing but memory of the One.

So it would seem that the only true priority is how The One will define beauty.

And what it will think of the human and their discernment and interaction with creation during the process of being.

Will it think of the human experience as one of honor and respect or one of disdain for life and attachment to selfish greed.

Will It think of the human experience as one where love is sought after rather than hatred? Will It think of the human experience as one filled with a love for darkness and things of negativity?

As the two last humans on the planet we have the opportunity to define how the human character is acknowledged within the All by the One. So is it important how we choose to manifest ourselves in that regard, or is all that matters our incessant need to satisfy our temporary flesh?

This is what humanity exists to learn.

This will be the legacy we leave to the All.

And the different destinations of selfishness and harmony are not had by following the same direction.

There is a specific direction of growth and evolution into higher being. And that direction does not define murder as a thing of beauty.

Have you constructed ways you consider non-deluded which allow you to come to this more beautiful place where you no longer despair and anger while facing the ugliness squarely rather than merely separating from it? If so, I am very interested to hear them. This is a wonderful opportunity for exchange of perspective while offering love.

Despair and anger are emotions like any others. They cannot be denied or ignored. I acknowledge the chaos along with the design, and realize that the two are dual aspects of existence. But I also acknowledge as I tried to express to DMCubic, that I believe that evolution requires the balancing of duality in a way that promotes the wise development of the consciousness, as opposed to the mere experiencing without consequence or discernment.

It is my understanding that balancing one’s path so that extremity is avoided is the key to acquiring such growth stimulating wisdom. And it is my experience that without wise application of what we learn from our experiences growth into higher being will not be realized.
Those that love darkness in spite of the light are not growing in wisdom. Those that acknowledge the need to balance darkness with light so that the extremity is not manifest have realized the power of wise application of knowledge.

It is not that darkness is ugly or beautiful, or that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It is a matter of wise discernment of the evolving consciousness and whether or not it will evolve into higher being.
In my opinion it is not wise discernment to suggest that murder is beauty.
It is not that perception is a rite of passage, but that wise discernment of our perceptions defines the character of our development.

It is in this process of being which involves an understanding of balance, alchemy, and sacred geometry, that I am able to discern wisdom from foolishness. And it is the unfolding of the Divine Design, built into each of us, within which is found our inherent yearnings to seek that divine, and to cast off the darkness of seeking self.

If one chooses to define humanity as a greedy being seeing worth only in selfishness, than clinging to that humanity is what will preserve that identity.

If one chooses to define humanity as an experience of love and harmony where all beings are seen as sacred and as worthy as any other, than one must realize that human nature which follows the path of selfishness and greed will not achieve that identity.

As long as we see ourselves as individual humans experiencing creation at our leisure without regard or obligation to others, humanity will not be an experience of harmony and love but will be that which has been manifest on this planet for thousands of years.

When will we learn?

[DMCubic]

Huntress posted:

The latter definition suggests moving on from the ugliness of the act without accepting it. It serves to create distance from ugliness & search for harmony. It does not deal with ugliness, which still very much exists. I am interested in how you DO deal with & meet ugliness?

This was a thought brewing in the back of my mind that I couldn't quite single out earlier to post: The beauty in darkness is revealed by the way light meets it. Its potential to be met with equanimity and compassion, and to bring out those qualities in people, is part of its beauty. The husks of darkness are like the cocoons that bind butterflies of light. In the grand scheme, the darkness is like the caterpillar that sacrifices itself in an uplifting transformation.

[Huntress]

Those that love darkness in spite of the light are not growing in wisdom.
...........
It is in this process of being which involves an understanding of balance, alchemy, and sacred geometry, that I am able to discern wisdom from foolishness.

You said: "It is in this process of being which involves an understanding of balance, alchemy, and sacred geometry, that I am able to discern wisdom from foolishness."
Your discernment is not mine and vice versa. Neither you nor I is able to discern The Ultimate Truth at this "now" time. Each of us is seeks to discern our own truths, and in doing so, we seek to come closer to The Ultimate Truth. It is wise to consider the wisdom offered by those around us who are also earnestly seeking, & to discern such for self from an open heart.

You said: "Those that love darkness in spite of the light are not growing in wisdom." From that statement and the general feel of your posts so far, I feel quite certain that your understanding of my true intent is considerably different from my actual intent. Imo appreciating and accepting all aspects of creation, including darkness, is wise. I do not wish to imitate or feed darkness. It seems to me that you are unable to recognize that. It seems to me that your distaste of my complete acceptance of darkness casts a shadow upon my intent to illuminate darkness with light rather than perpetuate it. To me, the shadow that is cast by your distaste of my total acceptance of darkness only fuels and perpetuates more darkness. This very delimma is one reason I came to fully accept darkness. Finding ways to accept and love ALL rather than finding fault illuminates rather than casts shadow.

I value your opinions. Thank you for your thoughful reply. Again, much of your reasoning is similar to mine. As always, this is simply my understanding of things. Peace.

[Cyan]

When will we learn?

That is the question is it not? =)

---

My understanding of the human nature, is that at the moment of death the idea that could be as closely expressed of the "thought" about human nature is "I wish it spent more time chilling and less time worrying about definitions of love"

---

Is what we are doing now communication by your definition?

---

The whole of the fear in this thread seems to focus exclusivly on the poosibility that through some of our actions we might actually be able to significantly slow or stop progress/evolution of "the whole" no matter what we did or how.

I believe such a fear is not founded in reality in any way shape or form.

---

Beauty = Optimum to strive for

Uglyness = Less than optimum, not somthing to strive for at the moment.

will lead to nothing but narcisistic self love.

But beauty as = Truth and

Ugly as = not Truth

Leads to actions which by the nature of reality correspond to love as you internally perceive and thus, beauty as all is one.


Only definition of beauty is, as i believe it, truth in some form.

And the beauty of the truth of murder is that for one, its an accepted linguistical concept, it helps navigate discussions and theories. Two, it is an experience by which we have come to realise that it is not an experience that we desire, even if this realization happened in the very ancient mysterious past (figuratively speaking) such a past has to be seen as beautiful for having been the first moment when it was committed and seen as not being something to commit or to commit and thereby help the whole of the system categorize entities into more categories (those that murder and those that do not murder) and so on. Such categorization helps as you only have to mark a category in your "create automatically" and "dont create automatically" spiritual folders as "automatically not allow creation of those that murder" Does not such an ability be worthy of loving?

IF any of these thing spark even the slightest bit of love then you have to love the act itself too because by definition it had to be carried out once for this to be possible.

The first bacteria that ate another committed the first murder. I agree that it was a bad choice to make but how do you reverse 4.5 billion years of evolution in your DNA?

[Shin'Ar]

[quote='Cyan' pid='95296' dateline='1345908794']
Does discernment not pay a huge part in communication?

Not in my thinking Cyan.

Discernment is done by the individual regarding what was communicated to them. Discernment can be a group effort, but that is not the point I am making in this case.

Given this, it becomes problematic to say flat-out that negative circumstances are not beautiful. If one accepts that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, you have to deal with a significant minority who believes negativity is beautiful. That's not insubstantial enough to just write them off as foolish.
My knowledge is that the darkness is eternal. My opinion is that it's as beautiful as the light.

DMC, the argument you make is the same one that humanity has debated for countless centuries. It is the Star Trek mantra of ‘sacrificing the few for the many’. And the argument to that has been our definition of what makes us human if we would sacrifice even one life. In other words what we speak of here is not a matter of semantics, the eye of the beholder or the experiencing of The All in its many facets.

It is simply a matter of the attributes which we have been endowed with from the Divine, and how we as humans will manifest those attributes.
Being human is not a matter of being an individual identity with no regard for life or the Mystery from which it spawns.

Being human is a process in which we discover that evolving is more than simply experiencing The All, it is building wisdom and character which evolves into higher being. Not as some higher form of an illusionary human self, but as a field of consciousness fragmented from the One Consciousness evolving as it does more than simply experience, but also as It becomes that which it began as; Light.

The duality of light and dark is not a matter of perception; it is a matter of One Process of Being struggling to comprehend its reality. In this process of discovery one process of being seek Light, not darkness. Darkness is what it now realizes. Light is the goal and the direction.

You misunderstand me if you suppose that I do not realize that many will see beauty in things that others may find beauty in.

But that realization does not mean that the discerning of those who see beauty in torture and pain is not afflicted with error and unwise judgement. It simply means that in their misunderstanding they see beauty in things that are not beautiful.

That you see beauty in horror does not grant you the right to redefine beauty. It simply means that in your process of being, and your discernment of experience, you have in error seen beauty in that which is not beautiful.

Regardless of any one’s particular perceptions, when they observe a family slowly starving to death and see one member of that family murder another in order to cannibalize the body, and they see a father sacrifice his last morsel of food for his child so that it can survive, it is not difficult to know which is beauty and which is not.

The cannibal may be a reality of this creation and part of The All, but its true character and relation to the All is manifest not in its mere existing side by side, but in its choices made within the process of being.

Beauty is manifest in the father’s sacrifice, the manifestation of love rather than selfishness.

Beauty is what defines the character of The All in its choices made during the process of being, not the actual state of the individual experiences along the way.

If we were the last two humans on the planet, what would your definition of beauty matter if I was to kill us both? In that instance humanity and the opportunity for its development into higher being becomes nothing but memory of the One.

So it would seem that the only true priority is how The One will define beauty.

And what it will think of the human and their discernment and interaction with creation during the process of being.

Will it think of the human experience as one of honor and respect or one of disdain for life and attachment to selfish greed.

Will It think of the human experience as one where love is sought after rather than hatred? Will It think of the human experience as one filled with a love for darkness and things of negativity?

As the two last humans on the planet we have the opportunity to define how the human character is acknowledged within the All by the One. So is it important how we choose to manifest ourselves in that regard, or is all that matters our incessant need to satisfy our temporary flesh?

This is what humanity exists to learn.

This will be the legacy we leave to the All.

And the different destinations of selfishness and harmony are not had by following the same direction.

There is a specific direction of growth and evolution into higher being. And that direction does not define murder as a thing of beauty.

Have you constructed ways you consider non-deluded which allow you to come to this more beautiful place where you no longer despair and anger while facing the ugliness squarely rather than merely separating from it? If so, I am very interested to hear them. This is a wonderful opportunity for exchange of perspective while offering love.

Despair and anger are emotions like any others. They cannot be denied or ignored. I acknowledge the chaos along with the design, and realize that the two are dual aspects of existence. But I also acknowledge as I tried to express to DMCubic, that I believe that evolution requires the balancing of duality in a way that promotes the wise development of the consciousness, as opposed to the mere experiencing without consequence or discernment.

It is my understanding that balancing one’s path so that extremity is avoided is the key to acquiring such growth stimulating wisdom. And it is my experience that without wise application of what we learn from our experiences growth into higher being will not be realized.
Those that love darkness in spite of the light are not growing in wisdom. Those that acknowledge the need to balance darkness with light so that the extremity is not manifest have realized the power of wise application of knowledge.

It is not that darkness is ugly or beautiful, or that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It is a matter of wise discernment of the evolving consciousness and whether or not it will evolve into higher being.
In my opinion it is not wise discernment to suggest that murder is beauty.
It is not that perception is a rite of passage, but that wise discernment of our perceptions defines the character of our development.

It is in this process of being which involves an understanding of balance, alchemy, and sacred geometry, that I am able to discern wisdom from foolishness. And it is the unfolding of the Divine Design, built into each of us, within which is found our inherent yearnings to seek that divine, and to cast off the darkness of seeking self.

If one chooses to define humanity as a greedy being seeing worth only in selfishness, than clinging to that humanity is what will preserve that identity.

If one chooses to define humanity as an experience of love and harmony where all beings are seen as sacred and as worthy as any other, than one must realize that human nature which follows the path of selfishness and greed will not achieve that identity.

As long as we see ourselves as individual humans experiencing creation at our leisure without regard or obligation to others, humanity will not be an experience of harmony and love but will be that which has been manifest on this planet for thousands of years.

When will we learn?

You(Shin'Ar) said: "It is in this process of being which involves an understanding of balance, alchemy, and sacred geometry, that I am able to discern wisdom from foolishness."
Your discernment is not mine and vice versa. Neither you nor I is able to discern The Ultimate Truth at this "now" time. Each of us is seeks to discern our own truths, and in doing so, we seek to come closer to The Ultimate Truth. It is wise to consider the wisdom offered by those around us who are also earnestly seeking, & to discern such for self from an open heart.

You said: "Those that love darkness in spite of the light are not growing in wisdom." From that statement and the general feel of your posts so far, I feel quite certain that your understanding of my true intent is considerably different from my actual intent. Imo appreciating and accepting all aspects of creation, including darkness, is wise. I do not wish to imitate or feed darkness. It seems to me that you are unable to recognize that. It seems to me that your distaste of my complete acceptance of darkness casts a shadow upon my intent to illuminate darkness with light rather than perpetuate it. To me, the shadow that is cast by your distaste of my total acceptance of darkness only fuels and perpetuates more darkness. This very delimma is one reason I came to fully accept darkness. Finding ways to accept and love ALL rather than finding fault illuminates rather than casts shadow.

I value your opinions. Thank you for your thoughful reply. Again, much of your reasoning is similar to mine. As always, this is simply my understanding of things. Peace.

No Huntress,

It is not you that I point to in my thinking or anyone ijn particular. This is my lack of skill in communicating using proper definitions.

Many times when I use the term 'you', I should be using the term 'one', to point to the general population as a whole rather than making it sound as though I am referring to the person specific to the post I quoted.

You are absolutely right that to evolve we must engage the thought processes of other fields and share in their information and then discern and learn from that sharing. This is sacred to me.

However, my desire to point out that darkness and negative aspects of creation are not to be adored just because they exist is based upon the many times that I am aware of people which do worship the dark things of life.

You had made it clear from the start of your OP that was not your intention and I appreciate that, but your profession on the matter does not speak for the direction toward Light, but rather that dark is light.

I am in disagreement with your premise, not your choice to discern freely. The shadow of my distaste is very real as it reflects my true feeling for inaccuracy/delusion that causes many to suffer in confusion.

It is loving to shed light on such confusion whenever possible and to reveal other doorways that lead to higher understanding. When such light is shed the dark of course cringes in retreat, and will feel as though it has been abused. But that does not mean that the Light has suddenly become the dark.

And this is the difference between the two. This is the duality and its manifestation, and the reason why one cannot be the other. They are opposing forces that react to each other in repulsion away from the other.

[Huntress]

No Huntress,

It is not you that I point to in my thinking or anyone ijn particular. This is my lack of skill in communicating using proper definitions.

Many times when I use the term 'you', I should be using the term 'one', to point to the general population as a whole rather than making it sound as though I am referring to the person specific to the post I quoted.

You are absolutely right that to evolve we must engage the thought processes of other fields and share in their information and then discern and learn from that sharing. This is sacred to me.

However, my desire to point out that darkness and negative aspects of creation are not to be adored just because they exist is based upon the many times that I am aware of people which do worship the dark things of life.

You had made it clear from the start of your OP that was not your intention and I appreciate that, but your profession on the matter does not speak for the direction toward Light, but rather that dark is light.

I am in disagreement with your premise, not your choice to discern freely. The shadow of my distaste is very real as it reflects my true feeling for inaccuracy/delusion that causes many to suffer in confusion.

It is loving to shed light on such confusion whenever possible and to reveal other doorways that lead to higher understanding. When such light is shed the dark of course cringes in retreat, and will feel as though it has been abused. But that does not mean that the Light has suddenly become the dark.

And this is the difference between the two. This is the duality and its manifestation, and the reason why one cannot be the other. They are opposing forces that react to each other in repulsion away from the other.

I, too, have a habit of using "you", or even "we", where "one" is more appropriate. No worries. Where we each stand on this matter is actually very close, yet it would seem we are nowhere near an alignment. I agree there are a few differences, but I consider them relatively slight in the great scheme of things. It will all come out in the wash, so to speak.

Thank you, Shin'Ar, for taking time to explain yourself. I value your sharing & the wisdom in your thoughts.

[Cyan]

[quote='Cyan' pid='95296' dateline='1345908794']
Does discernment not pay a huge part in communication?

Not in my thinking Cyan.

Discernment is done by the individual regarding what was communicated to them. Discernment can be a group effort, but that is not the point I am making in this case.

Then we will have to politely agree to disagree.

[DMCubic]

Let me just say first of all that I think this is a great thread and I thank all the participants.

Shin'Ar, I think most of our disagreement has been caused by our talking past each other. I see in your thinking an emphasis primarily on linear time and soul-evolution, and in mine an emphasis on timeless completeness.

If you consider the linear perspective, it does appear that the Creator seems to prefer all the classically beautiful and good things to the classically dark and ugly ones. The path of souls appears to involve a complete abandonment of such darkness, and for good reason. Nobody wants an infinite future that looks like hell in any way.

So when you address my earlier post by writing off the significant minority of negative entities as just being wrong about what's good and beautiful to pursue, you may be right. I totally see where you're coming from and while I still think beauty is in the eye of the beholder in the moment, and that those in-the-moment perceptions of beauty are as real as the judgments of ugliness looking back, I think you're right about how beings in general would feel looking back on an ugly moral atrocity from a more advanced point of view.

But as a balance to that, consider my emphasis on the eternalistic completeness of time-space as a counterbalance to your linear perspective. Time-space sounds to me like it operates on the principle of maximal completeness and relativistic definition of what's possible - and that it realizes all possibilities as actual, not hypothetical, parallel universes with as much reality as this one when laid out in space-time. (I could be wrong in these assumptions.)

It seems to me that there has to be an equally-horrible negative phenomenon for every positive one in time-space or else that relativity and openness of possibility couldn't exist. And if relativity and openness couldn't exist, I think there could be no creation.

Because of this relativity and completeness, I think it's philosophically problematic ever to treat beauty as a thing in itself, as there are no things in themselves. To draw a boundary around a beautiful act or thing or event and single it out as existing independently from, and not in some way containing, ugliness, is to create a fiction. The boundary exists only in people's heads. This perspective doesn't account for the inseparability of things in time-space or space-time seen when you analyze deeply. This contention is the basis of the earlier arguments I made which you didn't address.

But of course, there are goal lines, and if you run a football across one your team gets six points. Consensus reality counts for something.

In the end, it seems that for intelligent infinity to be infinite, it has to include all darkness and all light side by side without restriction in time-space, where they are fundamentally inseparable from one another. But for it to be intelligent, I think Shin'Ar is right; it has to winnow out the darkness in space-time from the perspective of linear minds which employ boundaries in their thinking.

As a final note, Shin'Ar, the existence of time-space is why I take linguistic issue with your statement that "The All" could look back and generate an opinion about its past. The All, to my mind, is visible only in time-space. Time-space as a whole couldn't possibly have an opinion about the past, since the past doesn't exist there, and also since it isn't a sentient being with faculties of judgment, no matter how advanced. It just Is. In its totality it can't "double over" on itself to see and evaluate itself.

I think when you construe The All to be a judging mind with faculties of recollection, you would be better off referring instead to a vast and powerful logos of some sort. I just think The All can't possibly have preference for the stated reasons.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Huntress]

[quote='DMCubic' pid='95334' dateline='1345934094']
Huntress posted:

The beauty in darkness is revealed by the way light meets it. Its potential to be met with equanimity and compassion, and to bring out those qualities in people, is part of its beauty. The husks of darkness are like the cocoons that bind butterflies of light. In the grand scheme, the darkness is like the caterpillar that sacrifices itself in an uplifting transformation.

DM
I've meant to say how poetic and flowing your idea was written. Nice!

[Shin'Ar]

[quote='Cyan' pid='95296' dateline='1345908794']
Does discernment not pay a huge part in communication?

Not in my thinking Cyan.

Discernment is done by the individual regarding what was communicated to them. Discernment can be a group effort, but that is not the point I am making in this case.

Then we will have to politely agree to disagree.

I will acknowledge just in case that is what you are meaning, that discernment does play a vital role in the accuracy of the information being communicated.

But communication alone does not requi8re discerning parties, it simply requires connection of interaction, whether discerned information is shared or not..

---

Let me just say first of all that I think this is a great thread and I thank all the participants.



As a final note, Shin'Ar, the existence of time-space is why I take linguistic issue with your statement that "The All" could look back and generate an opinion about its past. The All, to my mind, is visible only in time-space. Time-space as a whole couldn't possibly have an opinion about the past, since the past doesn't exist there, and also since it isn't a sentient being with faculties of judgment, no matter how advanced.

I think when you construe The All to be a judging mind with faculties of recollection, you would be better off referring instead to a vast and powerful logos of some sort. I just think The All can't possibly have preference for the stated reasons.

I think what you are calling The All is actually your perception of what many here refer to as the Void.

Is that correct?

otherwise, The All contains everything that exists at this moment of the process of being, including the memory of all experiences. The All is most certainly intelligent and an evolving aspect of Infinite Intelligence.

It is the very fact that this Intelligence evolves as it experiences, that obligates the fragments to seek higher understanding and Light rather than darkness.

[Patrick]

...
I will acknowledge just in case that is what you are meaning, that discernment does play a vital role in the accuracy of the information being communicated.

But communication alone does not requi8re discerning parties, it simply requires connection of interaction, whether discerned information is shared or not.
...

How can you share discerned information? You can only share information and each will then discern for themselves. No one else can discern for you.

[Shin'Ar]

...
I will acknowledge just in case that is what you are meaning, that discernment does play a vital role in the accuracy of the information being communicated.

But communication alone does not requi8re discerning parties, it simply requires connection of interaction, whether discerned information is shared or not.
...

How can you share discerned information? You can only share information and each will then discern for themselves. No one else can discern for you.

If I share information with you that I have not discerned in any way for its credibility or actual benefit, in other words I simply pass on information that I have heard without considering it in any way at all, that would be passing on information that has not been discerned.

If I have taken the time to scrutinize it and decide its worth or whether or not I need to alter it in some way to meet my understanding, then I would be passing you discerned information which would be much more valuable to you.

[Patrick]

...
I will acknowledge just in case that is what you are meaning, that discernment does play a vital role in the accuracy of the information being communicated.

But communication alone does not requi8re discerning parties, it simply requires connection of interaction, whether discerned information is shared or not.
...

How can you share discerned information? You can only share information and each will then discern for themselves. No one else can discern for you.

If I share information with you that I have not discerned in any way for its credibility or actual benefit, in other words I simply pass on information that I have heard without considering it in any way at all, that would be passing on information that has not been discerned.

If I have taken the time to scrutinize it and decide its worth or whether or not I need to alter it in some way to meet my understanding, then I would be passing you discerned information which would be much more valuable to you.

That is not how I see it. I would prefer to get all the information and then discern for my self.

Do you really believe I would be able to discern what is valuable to you ?

[godwide_void]

Contemplate the darkness, learn to recognize the darkness and acknowledge its existence as sanctioned by the Creator as the antithesis to what is light, but be very, very weary of miscomprehension of the darkness as constituted within the limits of acceptability as a substitute for the light, for while subject to this duality-oriented existential nexus our states of mind and being and the external circumstances we encounter will always be dynamic, perpetual fluctuations between both ends of the spectrum.

However, to those who anoint the very mention of darkness with poetic reprise and aesthetically-pleasing descriptions, I ask that you shed these sugar-coatings and elaborate literally upon what you are deeming as acceptable, as beautiful, and attempting to justify it from a standpoint of transcending duality. Otherwise, you are as the individual who claims "I love to smoke cigarettes because they feel good and are legal" when in actuality is stating "I love to smoke cancer sticks coated in hundreds of noxious, toxic poisons, thereby literally poisoning myself and slowly committing suicide whilst falsely perceiving there to be any positivity behind it".

The student of seeking enlightenment is no stranger to the notion that through the acceptance, acknowledgement and balance of darkness and light there can be no deeper, more concise understanding of the nature of things. Yet at some point there occurs a stumbling block and the nature of much dire confusion regarding duality, and the meditations upon darkness and its correlation to light is that divergent point. To those who speak of the beauty of "darkness", or of "illuminating the darkness with light", or of providing any type of justification for "darkness", I believe it highly necessary that you come forth and re-elaborate exactly what you speak of when you use the term darkness, without any poetic colorings.

From the human standpoint, is your variety of darkness that which would allow a foray into tyranny and catalyzation of the suffering of others through pain, death, and sorrow? Do you find light and love in genocide, or perhaps racial or cultural segregation or discrimination? Is the darkness you revel in that which would seek to monopolize through greed, or the egotistically-driven, megalomaniacal accumulation of power and self-aggrandizement at the expense and manipulation of others? What is the value you place in plumbing the darkness as a detour to light, or perhaps in truth, some of you have no intention of being ferried towards lighter pastures? Are those who sing praise to the existence of darkness guilty of cherrypicking? "This kind of darkness is alright, but this kind of darkness is too bad for me to align with, so I'll go with that darkness over there that's less darker than this very evil darkness, and now I have a fruit basket of comfortable darkness to munch on." I find it less disturbing than I probably should that there exist some who would revel in the darkness while masquerading as champions and wavers of the banner of light; that from the guise of alignment with unity and justification of duality as being truly blurred and illusory, that it is absolutely fine to make regular forays into the mode of wickedness to the point that the polarity of light becomes a mere memory, a false anchor point of self-delusion, and mere lip service becomes the nature of one's homage to the Creator in positive light.

But I digress. Is not "all one", and does not the Ra material speak of the perfect acceptability of donning the armor of either polarity? To come to grasp unity and the deeper nature of reality, it must be accepted that both darkness and light come from the same source, and service to either others or the self is still service to the one Self which animates us all. Now, it is not unlikely that there exist some who might take this as a free meal ticket to choose to perceive only the Self as the ultimate being and source, and find the superfluousness of relegating oneself to humility, humbleness and seeming powerlessness and vulnerability to the whims of others, seeing such as a chore of burden when the accumulation of knowledge and power to elevate oneself is a perfectly acceptable route as penned in the cosmology of a channeled beings words, a channeled being who from its standpoint views all the dramas and victories of humanity as one fluid harmony, and most importantly, whose sense of negativity vastly differs from what is viewed as negativity in this world.

Ra does not directly experience nor deal with the possibility of theft, of rape, of animosity towards them, of lying, or malevolent intents. The negativity of this planet surpasses the extent that darkness has ever been explored. To those who would be so easily seduced and enticed by the darkness, I say unto you, reveal your true colors and cease in your impersonations as one who actually cares about dispersing harmony and spearheading positive days for others, and as stated above, cease from poetic applications in the musings upon darkness, and describe exactly what darkness you associate with holiness and beauty.

Am I thus to expect, that were I in a secluded area with any of you who attempt to justify darkness as some divine decree, that it would be necessary to be suspicious of your intentions and to guard myself against possible attack unto my being? That I should fear being assaulted or infringed upon or worry that I may experience suffering simply because from your perspectives, since everything exists within the Creator, both good and evil, and that such terms are too wish-washy and troublesome for you to maintain and thus have deleted the distinctions between both from your paradigm of reality, that your twisted moral obligations and quasi-sociopath perspectives would lead to harmful actions of "darkness" against me with the confused justification that the darkness is beautiful and perfectly OK from a macrocosmic perspective?

Remember, that you are human. You may be a form which the Void has taken, and this place may be illusion, and we might all truly be infinite, eternal beings of light and free from disharmony controlling these flesh and blood avatars, but for the time being what we do here is not illusion, and the choices we make and the direction we head in hold more weight than you may imagine. You are exploring the greater distortions of your higher being translated through human circumstances. If you are met with extreme darkness and continue to build off this darkness to such a degree that you have confused the erection of the pillar of wickedness within you as a reflective, parallel substitute to the light, you are gravely mistaken.

To equate the movements of darkness with the modus operandi of light is a fatal mistake and it be wise to re-evaluate your moral standpoint, your values, your psychological workings, your emotional stability and your true definition of darkness and light. The only person I have seen openly state their wickedness (the member Zaxon) responded to me "I will leave unstated the extent of my malignancy" when I asked him if he had ever murdered another or would bend the will of another with his third eye. Take note, that he used the word 'malignancy' and his discourses have been coldly direct and frank, but nonetheless his honesty was commendable, far more commendable than those who will intersperse dark philosophy in between misleading speeches of being harmonious and light-spreading.

Do not take my rebuking of wickedness (I will not use darkness as such a term seems to be vague, broad and circumstantially defined to fit the comfortability of the one espousing it) as fear or disdain for it. It is simply my perspective and desire for clear elaboration on what truly falls under the umbrella term of darkness (murder, suffering, pain, hatred, anger, lust, manipulation, falsehoods) and its obvious lack of similarity to the virtues of light (love, forgiveness, compassion, kindness, joy, humility, generosity, honesty), and my bemused observations of people who will lump them into some indistinguishable melting pot whereby they comprise the same category of orientation or polarization. I do not fear the darkness, and I myself understand that I am a servant of the Void and one with It as all are, and there is very little that may do harm unto the Void or those who have received Its divine blessings, guidance and protection.

Know too, that the petty acts of darkness and your deepest motivations are laid out clearly for the omnipresent awareness of the Void, and while you might find yourself ingenious and crafty in your attempts to pass off the darkness as light, the Void knows exactly what you are up to and what your end goal is, and Its preference lies with those whose motivations and tactics are pure and intended to serve It to the greatest and most harmonious extent possible. Those chained by ego and have succumbed to the waltz of obfuscated evil are observed in each moment as they drift further and further away from the light while their minds have deluded themselves into thinking they are treading towards the light of hope.

For you who justify and praise darkness as the majestic counterpart to light worth championing, as you count your blessings, expecting the divine to shower you with gifts, and find that you lack them, having traded them all in for the wispy smoke of the deceitful succubus you have confused with true power, know that it was your own choice and doings to tread such a path, and so too will you wallow in the mists of those lower spheres where shame is unknown as willful advocates of "darkness", in whatever sugarcoating you have decided to paint it in rather than bluntly facing and putting forth the contents of the dark depths you enjoy steeping yourself in.

What baffles me more is that the darkness praised here can go two ways. Either it is all simply talk and philosophizing for the sake thereof (which would be more of a relief) or the praise towards darkness is backed up by actual action and intent. Either way, the true colors of those who are genuinely malign will remain neatly tucked away, so the only means of uncovering the truth is through intuitive discernment and careful observation, and rest assured that to those who may See, the darkness that its adherents mask behind a facade of light are very clearly seen.

[Richard]

So, hypothetically....

Lets all stand aside and watch someone butcher a child. With beatific smiles cause we know that in the end it really doesn't matter and that both of them set up this little play. And the creator is experiencing this beautiful unfolding. As we should be too?

Maybe this is too literal? Because this is what you guys are saying when you unwrap all the doubletalk flowing so freely here.

In that hypothetical situation? Are you going to take a stand? The choice, as always, is there.

Man's inhumanity to others is not and never will be beautiful. In ANY sense. I don't think the creator wants to experience this. Honestly, I would think the creator wants us to grow the hell up and not have him/her/it have to experience our growing pains over and over.

Trying to "see and understand" the beauty in ugly acts simply brings you down to the level of those committing the acts.

Richard

[godwide_void]

So, hypothetically....

Lets all stand aside and watch someone butcher a child. With beatific smiles cause we know that in the end it really doesn't matter and that both of them set up this little play. And the creator is experiencing this beautiful unfolding. As we should be too?

Maybe this is too literal? Because this is what you guys are saying when you unwrap all the doubletalk flowing so freely here.

In that hypothetical situation? Are you going to take a stand? The choice, as always, is there.

Man's inhumanity to others is not and never will be beautiful. In ANY sense. I don't think the creator wants to experience this. Honestly, I would think the creator wants us to grow the hell up and not have him/her/it have to experience our growing pains over and over.

Trying to "see and understand" the beauty in ugly acts simply brings you down to the level of those committing the acts.

Richard

This is exactly my point, Richard. It is foolish to mistake wickedness with benevolence and view it through a lens of acceptance and assimilation into holiness. The application of vileness is not the same as enacting a harmonious experience. The Creator cherishes Its individual manifestations and desires for each to reach a plateau of harmony. It in no way condones or forces someone to commit manslaughter and then turns around and deems it peachy.

The recent mutilation and burning of the 11 year old Christian child in a Muslim country which occurred several days ago, is this act "beautiful"? Is it wonderful in any sense beyond that of a sick and twisted mind for a child, a budding aspect of the Creator, to have undergone this? The derangement of this planet is certainly a tremendous learning experience and a crash course into the mechanics of confused duality.

If, pray tell, the lesson of this density and plane of being, isn't unconditional love, then why is it that beings who use their free will to commit dark acts against another in their incarnations need to reincarnate here to learn the error of their ways?

In what way does harm, hatred, anger, and any and all inhumane acts equate with unconditional love? I well tell you: NONE.

As I mentioned before, what seems to be going on here is a mere cherrypicking festival, nothing more and nothing less. Will it be total acceptance of light or total acceptance, no holds barred, of darkness? Not "typhoons or natural catastrophes killing people is beautiful" while "rape is ugly and unacceptable" followed by "the darkness of murder is beautiful" begotten by "oh, but I would never commit murder because it's oh so wrong for me to do it but when others do it I'll detach myself and wittle down the magnitude of the reality of the experience and call it beautiful, but it probably wasn't beautiful FOR THE PERSON GETTING MURDERED".

It is not a matter of whether you try to justify darkness as existing within the Creator and therefore is acceptable to immerse in while falsely proclaiming that you are of the light and of harmony. At what point do these statements run dry with insincerity, which they most certainly will the more one attempts to frantically juggle these two extremes and keep up appearances for social acceptability.

The deepest extent of my "darkness" still in action today, is that I sometimes take a little bit more food for myself than I should. Laughable, isn't it? - and yet, as I have sincerely aligned myself with serving the Creator through good, through the attempts at cultivating unconditional kindness, love and compassion, do the rehashed terms "love and light" actually become tangible things with bearing in my life. The possibility of manipulating others, harming others, or even trying to find delight in true "darkness" have been wiped out, and I will in no way attempt to make justifications for them or confuse them with light, even if I understand the purpose of the existence of "darkness". This leads me to question, from my own personal example, what type of personal conduct is seen by those who will still equate darkness with light or acceptable through divine sanctioning?